plz nerf Rangers - Phoenix Freeshard

normal shot lul

Fri 7 Aug 2020 8:53 PM by CowwoC

inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Aug 2020 8:40 PM
normal shot lul

nice rofl macro.

Fri 7 Aug 2020 9:03 PM by inoeth

update now with crit shot lul

Fri 7 Aug 2020 9:30 PM by Cipon

The big problem is the RA volley, remove this RA and u wont see this many rangers in keep fights.

Fri 7 Aug 2020 10:37 PM by inoeth

the big problem is that ppl can stand anywhere and shoot everyone for 500 on 2300 range......

Fri 7 Aug 2020 11:05 PM by Astaa

Only if they know where you are

and if they know where you are and you're a stealther then you're doing it wrong.

Anyway, that would be a 50 bow, 48pf ranger, that sacrifices everything for those sorts of numbers.

Sat 8 Aug 2020 3:23 AM by dbeattie71

Astaa wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Aug 2020 11:05 PM
Only if they know where you are and if they know where you are and you're a stealther then you're doing it wrong.

Anyway, that would be a 50 bow, 48pf ranger, that sacrifices everything for those sorts of numbers.

Which a Scout can’t do all because of self buffs. Well they can, I’d need something like aug dex 8 or 9 to get close to the freakish dex my keen ranger has.

Sat 8 Aug 2020 5:00 AM by tommccartney

No class should be able to deal 900+ damage in a single shot/hit/spell

Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:00 AM by gotwqqd

tommccartney wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 5:00 AM
No class should be able to deal 900+ damage in a single shot/hit/spell

arent there plenty of RA abilities that eclipse this mark?

Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:11 AM by inoeth

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:00 AM
tommccartney wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 5:00 AM
No class should be able to deal 900+ damage in a single shot/hit/spell
arent there plenty of RA abilities that eclipse this mark?

no got all nerfed here

Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:12 AM by inoeth

Astaa wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Aug 2020 11:05 PM
Only if they know where you are and if they know where you are and you're a stealther then you're doing it wrong.

Anyway, that would be a 50 bow, 48pf ranger, that sacrifices everything for those sorts of numbers.

just hit anything at DC bridge, i assure you at least 2-3 rangers run down the hill from DC and shoot you, nothing you can do about it... hell you cant even get them because they drag you into guards... where is the trade off for this silly play style?

Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:26 AM by tommccartney

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:00 AM
tommccartney wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 5:00 AM
No class should be able to deal 900+ damage in a single shot/hit/spell
arent there plenty of RA abilities that eclipse this mark?

You referring to active RA’s which hit for 600/800 at a cost of 30rsp’s and on a 5/10/15min cool down ?

Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:36 AM by Spewy

Yes please nerf bow ranger, but up a bit melee ranger dps, I can’t kill Horg without iP

Linkkette

Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:49 AM by Astaa

inoeth wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:12 AM
Astaa wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Aug 2020 11:05 PM
Only if they know where you are and if they know where you are and you're a stealther then you're doing it wrong.

Anyway, that would be a 50 bow, 48pf ranger, that sacrifices everything for those sorts of numbers.

just hit anything at DC bridge, i assure you at least 2-3 rangers run down the hill from DC and shoot you, nothing you can do about it... hell you cant even get them because they drag you into guards... where is the trade off for this silly play style?

There isn't really...however, I tried to play solo hero and found it a complete waste of time on this server, so now I decimate those very same zerglings, that make solo impossible, from range. The whining I get from them makes even more worthwhile. I can't speak for all rangers but I certainly don't add on real soloer fights, ganking greens and blues isn't proper soloing, and I will gladly add on them.

Sat 8 Aug 2020 8:59 AM by inoeth

Astaa wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:49 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:12 AM
Astaa wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Aug 2020 11:05 PM
Only if they know where you are and if they know where you are and you're a stealther then you're doing it wrong.

Anyway, that would be a 50 bow, 48pf ranger, that sacrifices everything for those sorts of numbers.

just hit anything at DC bridge, i assure you at least 2-3 rangers run down the hill from DC and shoot you, nothing you can do about it... hell you cant even get them because they drag you into guards... where is the trade off for this silly play style?

There isn't really...however, I tried to play solo hero and found it a complete waste of time on this server, so now I decimate those very same zerglings, that make solo impossible, from range. The whining I get from them makes even more worthwhile. I can't speak for all rangers but I certainly don't add on real soloer fights, ganking greens and blues isn't proper soloing, and I will gladly add on them.

grz you are part of the problem now

Sat 8 Aug 2020 9:07 AM by brewtus23

You choose to play an MMO and be solo, grats to you i hope you have fun and enjoy it. Not everyone wants to play a game and be solo, Not everyone wants to only play the toons that you want them to play, Not everyone wants to fight the way you want them to fight. If you chase them rangers back to the keep/tower and get guard aggro that is your silly mistake. You have 5k kills and over 1/2 of them are solo kills, you seem to be doing pretty good against any and all classes. The Rangers that are hitting for the 400-500 shots are 50 bow, 48 Pf, maybe 33 stealth at the most and then no more then 10 blades/peirce. If those rangers don't get any damage done in range by the time the enemy is on them lololol they are dead easily as they don't have a handy pet, cool spear styles, slam, 99% snare to give them a chance to get away. Quit bitching and play the dam game and utilize your classes ability

Sat 8 Aug 2020 9:11 AM by inoeth

brewtus23 wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 9:07 AM
You choose to play an MMO and be solo, grats to you i hope you have fun and enjoy it. Not everyone wants to play a game and be solo, Not everyone wants to only play the toons that you want them to play, Not everyone wants to fight the way you want them to fight. If you chase them rangers back to the keep/tower and get guard aggro that is your silly mistake. You have 5k kills and over 1/2 of them are solo kills, you seem to be doing pretty good against any and all classes. The Rangers that are hitting for the 400-500 shots are 50 bow, 48 Pf, maybe 33 stealth at the most and then no more then 10 blades/peirce. If those rangers don't get any damage done in range by the time the enemy is on them lololol they are dead easily as they don't have a handy pet, cool spear styles, slam, 99% snare to give them a chance to get away. Quit bitching and play the dam game and utilize your classes ability

problem is this is very one sided since these idiots never leave the keep, just trolling with their 500 normal shots lul

Sat 8 Aug 2020 12:05 PM by Symptomettes

brewtus23 wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 9:07 AM
You choose to play an MMO and be solo, grats to you i hope you have fun and enjoy it. Not everyone wants to play a game and be solo, Not everyone wants to only play the toons that you want them to play, Not everyone wants to fight the way you want them to fight. If you chase them rangers back to the keep/tower and get guard aggro that is your silly mistake. You have 5k kills and over 1/2 of them are solo kills, you seem to be doing pretty good against any and all classes. The Rangers that are hitting for the 400-500 shots are 50 bow, 48 Pf, maybe 33 stealth at the most and then no more then 10 blades/peirce. If those rangers don't get any damage done in range by the time the enemy is on them lololol they are dead easily as they don't have a handy pet, cool spear styles, slam, 99% snare to give them a chance to get away. Quit bitching and play the dam game and utilize your classes ability

You are being an hypocrit there cause you can't really deny that the damage are litteraly broken as fuck... Even more with the three str relics 75% of the time. Quit bitching ? That means in your language : please don't talk about it i still want to do 50k rps per keep cause of my broken ability. People can't even def properly and as you can see, hibs control rvr and have change all the mechanics in rvr keep zerg because of one ability and the ranger pop, but yeah we still need to quit bitching and play the damn game and utilize our classes ability... Why do you post here when you can't even see what is wrong here. 15 sec timer for 5 arrows everywhere you want. I'm playing an archer and i'm not using it cause it's fuked up big times. Long shot should be 15 sec timer and Volley nerf by 30% and his couldown to 2 minutes since all archers in zerg are mostly small man together. It's unhealthy atm, so stop this godamn hypocrisy.

The only thing you are doing here is telling us what ability others have when Rangers are totaly OP since the archery change and so you make no sense at all. Rangers have the best melee spec, the best Sniper spec and i don't even talk about hybrid that is super strong solo. Cool spear style ? Dude you don't even know what you are talking about, spear is meh... 99% Snare is 45 shield so that make the scout unable to melee, so same as ranger sniper spec. And since ranger and scout got like a difference of 50 dex and get easily Quick cap without spending any RA point in sniper spec i don't see your point ? Everything is better for one side. Oh and i forgot that dual is moded here so... Do we cry about it ? No, but the shit is real. Do we talk about the slash weapon proc that are perfect for stealth war ? Hib racial starting point ? Small size toon ? The list is long...

So please, don't come back with any of your arguments here. You don't know shit...

Sat 8 Aug 2020 2:51 PM by joshisanonymous

inoeth wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:12 AM
Astaa wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Aug 2020 11:05 PM
Only if they know where you are and if they know where you are and you're a stealther then you're doing it wrong.

Anyway, that would be a 50 bow, 48pf ranger, that sacrifices everything for those sorts of numbers.

just hit anything at DC bridge, i assure you at least 2-3 rangers run down the hill from DC and shoot you, nothing you can do about it... hell you cant even get them because they drag you into guards... where is the trade off for this silly play style?

You just proved Astaa's point that you're doing it wrong.

Sat 8 Aug 2020 3:26 PM by Messerjockel

Hi,

I am Flup, 50 bow,48 pf, 34 stealth at rr5.

I have 375 dex with MoA and dex RA and use a 16.5 5.5 speed bow.
Keep in mind hib has all relics.
No IP, no purge, a bit crit damage.

In melee I am toast. That’s why I stay away from hot spots.

BR
Flup, Hib

Sat 8 Aug 2020 3:51 PM by inoeth

joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 2:51 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:12 AM
Astaa wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Aug 2020 11:05 PM
Only if they know where you are and if they know where you are and you're a stealther then you're doing it wrong.

Anyway, that would be a 50 bow, 48pf ranger, that sacrifices everything for those sorts of numbers.

just hit anything at DC bridge, i assure you at least 2-3 rangers run down the hill from DC and shoot you, nothing you can do about it... hell you cant even get them because they drag you into guards... where is the trade off for this silly play style?

You just proved Astaa's point that you're doing it wrong.

yeah when camping dc and shooting everything that moves is the "right way" im out .... no point playing this game for this silly play style

good luck finding enemys soon if you keep on doing that, nobody likes to be ganked. why dont you guys just join zergs? leave us decent ppl alone you trolls

Sat 8 Aug 2020 5:26 PM by joshisanonymous

inoeth wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 3:51 PM
joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 2:51 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:12 AM
Astaa wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Aug 2020 11:05 PM
Only if they know where you are and if they know where you are and you're a stealther then you're doing it wrong.

Anyway, that would be a 50 bow, 48pf ranger, that sacrifices everything for those sorts of numbers.

just hit anything at DC bridge, i assure you at least 2-3 rangers run down the hill from DC and shoot you, nothing you can do about it... hell you cant even get them because they drag you into guards... where is the trade off for this silly play style?

You just proved Astaa's point that you're doing it wrong.

yeah when camping dc and shooting everything that moves is the "right way" im out .... no point playing this game for this silly play style

good luck finding enemys soon if you keep on doing that, nobody likes to be ganked. why dont you guys just join zergs? leave us decent ppl alone you trolls

God you are dense. You're doing it wrong because you're a solo going to the highest traffic location you can find, just outside of a highly defensive position for enemies, and then getting mad when they don't neatly sacrifice themselves to you one at a time.

Sat 8 Aug 2020 8:43 PM by Messerjockel

joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 5:26 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 3:51 PM
joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 2:51 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:12 AM
Astaa wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Aug 2020 11:05 PM
Only if they know where you are and if they know where you are and you're a stealther then you're doing it wrong.

Anyway, that would be a 50 bow, 48pf ranger, that sacrifices everything for those sorts of numbers.

just hit anything at DC bridge, i assure you at least 2-3 rangers run down the hill from DC and shoot you, nothing you can do about it... hell you cant even get them because they drag you into guards... where is the trade off for this silly play style?

You just proved Astaa's point that you're doing it wrong.

yeah when camping dc and shooting everything that moves is the "right way" im out .... no point playing this game for this silly play style

good luck finding enemys soon if you keep on doing that, nobody likes to be ganked. why dont you guys just join zergs? leave us decent ppl alone you trolls

God you are dense. You're doing it wrong because you're a solo going to the highest traffic location you can find, just outside of a highly defensive position for enemies, and then getting mad when they don't neatly sacrifice themselves to you one at a time.

I need to agree. Go somewhere else with less traffic Eik.
There are always rangers at DC.
Most likely they have a tab just with death messages to see which infi or sb is in emain.
Than they just wait in stealth for a single hib going to the dock because that is your favorite prey and we click on the hib, using the macro auto assist and draw our bow. Because of the kill messages we know it is an infi, means blunt arrow or a sb means we use keen arrows. You hit our target, macro targets you and we release our bow. Best case we hit you 1 second after your PA.

Flup, hib

Sun 9 Aug 2020 9:22 AM by inoeth

you are hilarious, where to go then? relic docks farming pre lvl 50s? sry dudes that is just like camping DC as a ranger.
then again why do you camp there? you can do alot more rp by joining the zerg and do the volley thing, that is also boring as hell... should fit your play style

Sun 9 Aug 2020 10:04 AM by tommccartney

Astaa wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:49 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:12 AM
Astaa wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Aug 2020 11:05 PM
Only if they know where you are and if they know where you are and you're a stealther then you're doing it wrong.

Anyway, that would be a 50 bow, 48pf ranger, that sacrifices everything for those sorts of numbers.

just hit anything at DC bridge, i assure you at least 2-3 rangers run down the hill from DC and shoot you, nothing you can do about it... hell you cant even get them because they drag you into guards... where is the trade off for this silly play style?

There isn't really...however, I tried to play solo hero and found it a complete waste of time on this server, so now I decimate those very same zerglings, that make solo impossible, from range. The whining I get from them makes even more worthwhile. I can't speak for all rangers but I certainly don't add on real soloer fights, ganking greens and blues isn't proper soloing, and I will gladly add on them.

Assuming you are talking about real solo’ing and not /bow mortal combat duels;
Why would you try to solo on a hero; a group class and has zero ranged abilities, zero rupt abilities, zero speed, zero crowd control & very low solo utility ? And then be surprised when it doesn’t do well ??

Sun 9 Aug 2020 10:47 AM by inoeth

tommccartney wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 10:04 AM
Astaa wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:49 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:12 AM
Astaa wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Aug 2020 11:05 PM
Only if they know where you are and if they know where you are and you're a stealther then you're doing it wrong.

Anyway, that would be a 50 bow, 48pf ranger, that sacrifices everything for those sorts of numbers.

just hit anything at DC bridge, i assure you at least 2-3 rangers run down the hill from DC and shoot you, nothing you can do about it... hell you cant even get them because they drag you into guards... where is the trade off for this silly play style?

There isn't really...however, I tried to play solo hero and found it a complete waste of time on this server, so now I decimate those very same zerglings, that make solo impossible, from range. The whining I get from them makes even more worthwhile. I can't speak for all rangers but I certainly don't add on real soloer fights, ganking greens and blues isn't proper soloing, and I will gladly add on them.

Assuming you are talking about real solo’ing and not /bow mortal combat duels;
Why would you try to solo on a hero; a group class and has zero ranged abilities, zero rupt abilities, zero speed, zero crowd control & very low solo utility ? And then be surprised when it doesn’t do well ??

because if not run over by all these red is dead noobs, hero is a great solo class??!

Sun 9 Aug 2020 11:02 AM by Messerjockel

inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 9:22 AM
you are hilarious, where to go then? relic docks farming pre lvl 50s? sry dudes that is just like camping DC as a ranger.
then again why do you camp there? you can do alot more rp by joining the zerg and do the volley thing, that is also boring as hell... should fit your play style

It is always risk versus reward. If you look at therabbin, he kills around dc but mostly he kills on the dc bridge.
I assume he can get away better Because of LOS and it is not open like the water between dc and dc dock..

Flup, hib

Sun 9 Aug 2020 11:09 AM by Siouxsie

inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 9:22 AM
you are hilarious, where to go then? relic docks farming pre lvl 50s? sry dudes that is just like camping DC as a ranger.
then again why do you camp there? you can do alot more rp by joining the zerg and do the volley thing, that is also boring as hell... should fit your play style

As of today, 9th August 11:08 UTC:
Top 20 classes for highest RPs in last 48 hours are entirely from Hibernia
3 of them are rangers, 1 is a nightshade known to group with rangers.

Server is so lopsided it's not even funny.

Sun 9 Aug 2020 11:16 AM by tommccartney

inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 10:47 AM
tommccartney wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 10:04 AM
Astaa wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:49 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:12 AM
Astaa wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Aug 2020 11:05 PM
Only if they know where you are and if they know where you are and you're a stealther then you're doing it wrong.

Anyway, that would be a 50 bow, 48pf ranger, that sacrifices everything for those sorts of numbers.

just hit anything at DC bridge, i assure you at least 2-3 rangers run down the hill from DC and shoot you, nothing you can do about it... hell you cant even get them because they drag you into guards... where is the trade off for this silly play style?

There isn't really...however, I tried to play solo hero and found it a complete waste of time on this server, so now I decimate those very same zerglings, that make solo impossible, from range. The whining I get from them makes even more worthwhile. I can't speak for all rangers but I certainly don't add on real soloer fights, ganking greens and blues isn't proper soloing, and I will gladly add on them.

Assuming you are talking about real solo’ing and not /bow mortal combat duels;
Why would you try to solo on a hero; a group class and has zero ranged abilities, zero rupt abilities, zero speed, zero crowd control & very low solo utility ? And then be surprised when it doesn’t do well ??

because if not run over by all these red is dead noobs, hero is a great solo class??!

If it’s a /bow duel then yeah hero is great. But In real rvr no it has very low solo utility, and you will have nothing but a rough time. And to expect enemy players to give you special treatment because you’re a solo hero is just straight up naive. I will never understand why people try to bend the game to their solo needs and get upset when it doesn’t happen. Getting outnumbered and dealing with adds will always be a thing, it’s the nature of the game, so why try play a class that has zero utility to deal with these things ? It is a poor choice for solo’ing in real rvr.

Sun 9 Aug 2020 12:50 PM by inoeth

tommccartney wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 11:16 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 10:47 AM
tommccartney wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 10:04 AM
Astaa wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:49 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:12 AM
Astaa wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Aug 2020 11:05 PM
Only if they know where you are and if they know where you are and you're a stealther then you're doing it wrong.

Anyway, that would be a 50 bow, 48pf ranger, that sacrifices everything for those sorts of numbers.

just hit anything at DC bridge, i assure you at least 2-3 rangers run down the hill from DC and shoot you, nothing you can do about it... hell you cant even get them because they drag you into guards... where is the trade off for this silly play style?

There isn't really...however, I tried to play solo hero and found it a complete waste of time on this server, so now I decimate those very same zerglings, that make solo impossible, from range. The whining I get from them makes even more worthwhile. I can't speak for all rangers but I certainly don't add on real soloer fights, ganking greens and blues isn't proper soloing, and I will gladly add on them.

Assuming you are talking about real solo’ing and not /bow mortal combat duels;
Why would you try to solo on a hero; a group class and has zero ranged abilities, zero rupt abilities, zero speed, zero crowd control & very low solo utility ? And then be surprised when it doesn’t do well ??

because if not run over by all these red is dead noobs, hero is a great solo class??!

If it’s a /bow duel then yeah hero is great. But In real rvr no it has very low solo utility, and you will have nothing but a rough time. And to expect enemy players to give you special treatment because you’re a solo hero is just straight up naive. I will never understand why people try to bend the game to their solo needs and get upset when it doesn’t happen. Getting outnumbered and dealing with adds will always be a thing, it’s the nature of the game, so why try play a class that has zero utility to deal with these things ? It is a poor choice for solo’ing in real rvr.

its the david vs goliath thing u know...
"bend the game" just like you do assuming this a zerg vs zerg game only when there is clearly a "lone enforcer" title available, explain!

Sun 9 Aug 2020 12:52 PM by inoeth

Messerjockel wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 11:02 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 9:22 AM
you are hilarious, where to go then? relic docks farming pre lvl 50s? sry dudes that is just like camping DC as a ranger.
then again why do you camp there? you can do alot more rp by joining the zerg and do the volley thing, that is also boring as hell... should fit your play style

It is always risk versus reward. If you look at therabbin, he kills around dc but mostly he kills on the dc bridge.
I assume he can get away better Because of LOS and it is not open like the water between dc and dc dock..

Flup, hib

therabbin will also die if a ranger shoots at him withing 2 arrows....
i can do rp there but the thing is there are players that kill you and you dont have a chance to fight back because these cowards just shoot from safe zones and never go out... its no risk/high reward

Sun 9 Aug 2020 1:09 PM by Messerjockel

Sorry Eik but dc dock is a deathtrap for stealth.
I don’t think the damage of ranger is too high but 1050 on you with crit shot cast a smile on my face, hit you around 9am EST

Flup, hib

Sun 9 Aug 2020 1:14 PM by tommccartney

inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 12:50 PM
tommccartney wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 11:16 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 10:47 AM
tommccartney wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 10:04 AM
Astaa wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:49 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Aug 2020 7:12 AM
Astaa wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Aug 2020 11:05 PM
Only if they know where you are and if they know where you are and you're a stealther then you're doing it wrong.

Anyway, that would be a 50 bow, 48pf ranger, that sacrifices everything for those sorts of numbers.

just hit anything at DC bridge, i assure you at least 2-3 rangers run down the hill from DC and shoot you, nothing you can do about it... hell you cant even get them because they drag you into guards... where is the trade off for this silly play style?

There isn't really...however, I tried to play solo hero and found it a complete waste of time on this server, so now I decimate those very same zerglings, that make solo impossible, from range. The whining I get from them makes even more worthwhile. I can't speak for all rangers but I certainly don't add on real soloer fights, ganking greens and blues isn't proper soloing, and I will gladly add on them.

Assuming you are talking about real solo’ing and not /bow mortal combat duels;
Why would you try to solo on a hero; a group class and has zero ranged abilities, zero rupt abilities, zero speed, zero crowd control & very low solo utility ? And then be surprised when it doesn’t do well ??

because if not run over by all these red is dead noobs, hero is a great solo class??!

If it’s a /bow duel then yeah hero is great. But In real rvr no it has very low solo utility, and you will have nothing but a rough time. And to expect enemy players to give you special treatment because you’re a solo hero is just straight up naive. I will never understand why people try to bend the game to their solo needs and get upset when it doesn’t happen. Getting outnumbered and dealing with adds will always be a thing, it’s the nature of the game, so why try play a class that has zero utility to deal with these things ? It is a poor choice for solo’ing in real rvr.

its the david vs goliath thing u know...
"bend the game" just like you do assuming this a zerg vs zerg game only when there is clearly a "lone enforcer" title available, explain!

I am a solo player, and I don’t rage when I get out numbered, I just gotta try play smarter, and my first reply was to the guy who roled a solo hero and got his arse whooped, so he then roled a ranger and went full bow out of spite, and I was merely stating hero is a very bad class to chose to solo on in the first place.

Sun 9 Aug 2020 1:14 PM by inoeth

normal shots deal more dmg than a PA and you think this is not too much? i cant find words for this kind of stupidity.....

Sun 9 Aug 2020 1:53 PM by Cadebrennus

inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 1:14 PM
normal shots deal more dmg than a PA and you think this is not too much? i cant find words for this kind of stupidity.....

An Archer gets interrupted when someone farts in their general direction. What don't you understand about that?

Sun 9 Aug 2020 2:19 PM by inoeth

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 1:53 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 1:14 PM
normal shots deal more dmg than a PA and you think this is not too much? i cant find words for this kind of stupidity.....

An Archer gets interrupted when someone farts in their general direction. What don't you understand about that?

hi im cadebrennus, i have nothing to say, just add another stupid comment here. ciao

Sun 9 Aug 2020 2:45 PM by Tyrlaan

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 1:53 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 1:14 PM
normal shots deal more dmg than a PA and you think this is not too much? i cant find words for this kind of stupidity.....

An Archer gets interrupted when someone farts in their general direction. What don't you understand about that?

The number of interrupts at 2000+ range is low (and require Quickcast which also takes time to finish) and even 1500 range interrupts have RUTs (like from items). If your archer is rupted at 1500 range you can either keep shooting (if it´s a caster you´re going to drop with another shot) or you can kite to keep equidistance while your few seconds rupt timer ticks down whereas their RUT interrupt ability will not be available when you start shooting again.

The only thing that actually works buying time vs. archers at 1500+ range is carrying a shield.

I still think archer damage should scale with range. Close range = more damage (but easier to rupt as the number of possible rupts increases with proximity and less distance to be closed for being caught in melee), long range = lower damage (but can´t be rupted). New archery´s Point-blank shot and long shot abilities all in one mechanic.

Sun 9 Aug 2020 2:47 PM by inoeth

Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 2:45 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 1:53 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 1:14 PM
normal shots deal more dmg than a PA and you think this is not too much? i cant find words for this kind of stupidity.....

An Archer gets interrupted when someone farts in their general direction. What don't you understand about that?

The number of interrupts at 2000+ range is low (and require Quickcast which also takes time to finish) and even 1500 range interrupts have RUTs (like from items). If your archer is rupted at 1500 range you can either keep shooting (if it´s a caster you´re going to drop with another shot) or you can kite to keep equidistance while your few seconds rupt timer ticks down whereas their RUT interrupt ability will not be available when you start shooting again.

The only thing that actually works buying time vs. archers at 1500+ range is carrying a shield.

I still think archer damage should scale with range. Close range = more damage (but easier to rupt as the number of possible rupts increases with proximity and less distance to be closed for being caught in melee), long range = lower damage (but can´t be rupted). New archery´s Point-blank shot and long shot abilities all in one mechanic.

dont bother answering this turd, he doesnt even read just making more stupid comments

Sun 9 Aug 2020 3:34 PM by Noashakra

if you shoot someone at 1500+ range, you just have to run the other way.

Sun 9 Aug 2020 3:35 PM by inoeth

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 3:34 PM
if you shoot someone at 1500+ range, you just have to run the other way.

usually you get shot when in fight and you are already doen to 50% so the initial shot wil drop you to 20% try running then

Sun 9 Aug 2020 3:37 PM by Cadebrennus

Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 2:45 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 1:53 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 1:14 PM
normal shots deal more dmg than a PA and you think this is not too much? i cant find words for this kind of stupidity.....

An Archer gets interrupted when someone farts in their general direction. What don't you understand about that?

The number of interrupts at 2000+ range is low (and require Quickcast which also takes time to finish) and even 1500 range interrupts have RUTs (like from items). If your archer is rupted at 1500 range you can either keep shooting (if it´s a caster you´re going to drop with another shot) or you can kite to keep equidistance while your few seconds rupt timer ticks down whereas their RUT interrupt ability will not be available when you start shooting again.

The only thing that actually works buying time vs. archers at 1500+ range is carrying a shield.

I still think archer damage should scale with range. Close range = more damage (but easier to rupt as the number of possible rupts increases with proximity and less distance to be closed for being caught in melee), long range = lower damage (but can´t be rupted). New archery´s Point-blank shot and long shot abilities all in one mechanic.

You really should read the patch notes regarding passive block on Shield, including for classes that can't spec it.

The only time I've ever died to an Archer on my Merc was literally the very first time I ran out in the frontier, ungrouped. I was a fresh RR1 with no RPs and hadn't even hotbarred /switch yet for my shield. It was three Archers assisting, and I didn't even die from the bow damage. It was the DoT proc at th end.

So tell me how OP'ed is it that it took three of them AND a DoT proc to kill me when I didn't even have my shield out? I felt bad for them.

Sun 9 Aug 2020 3:43 PM by inoeth

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 3:37 PM
Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 2:45 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 1:53 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 1:14 PM
normal shots deal more dmg than a PA and you think this is not too much? i cant find words for this kind of stupidity.....

An Archer gets interrupted when someone farts in their general direction. What don't you understand about that?

The number of interrupts at 2000+ range is low (and require Quickcast which also takes time to finish) and even 1500 range interrupts have RUTs (like from items). If your archer is rupted at 1500 range you can either keep shooting (if it´s a caster you´re going to drop with another shot) or you can kite to keep equidistance while your few seconds rupt timer ticks down whereas their RUT interrupt ability will not be available when you start shooting again.

The only thing that actually works buying time vs. archers at 1500+ range is carrying a shield.

I still think archer damage should scale with range. Close range = more damage (but easier to rupt as the number of possible rupts increases with proximity and less distance to be closed for being caught in melee), long range = lower damage (but can´t be rupted). New archery´s Point-blank shot and long shot abilities all in one mechanic.

You really should read the patch notes regarding passive block on Shield, including for classes that can't spec it.

The only time I've ever died to an Archer on my Merc was literally the very first time I ran out in the frontier, ungrouped. I was a fresh RR1 with no RPs and hadn't even hotbarred /switch yet for my shield. It was three Archers assisting, and I didn't even die from the bow damage. It was the DoT proc at th end.

So tell me how OP'ed is it that it took three of them AND a DoT proc to kill me when I didn't even have my shield out? I felt bad for them.

do you even realize your own bullshit? that was clearly before bow dmg got out of hand... apples and pears like always

Sun 9 Aug 2020 3:52 PM by joshisanonymous

inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 9:22 AM
you are hilarious, where to go then? relic docks farming pre lvl 50s? sry dudes that is just like camping DC as a ranger.
then again why do you camp there? you can do alot more rp by joining the zerg and do the volley thing, that is also boring as hell... should fit your play style

You know what's hilarious? I remember accusing you of spending all your time in Odin's one of the other (many) times that you've come here whining about an RvR game being played like an RvR game, and you insisted that you don't hang out in Odin's and made this same "where am I supposed to go" whine. I then gave you a pretty long list of where you can go as a solo and find some success, but apparently you ignored that or forgot about it altogether and decided that no, really, the only place you could possibly go as a solo is DC, where you have literally every disadvantage imaginable. And that's fine. If you get your kicks by playing solo in the stupidest ways possible because you think that's gets you better fights, more power to you, but quit bitching about it every time you die. I swear, even when you supposedly quit this game, you still came here to whine incessantly about dying in an RvR zone.

Tyrlaan wrote: The number of interrupts at 2000+ range is low (and require Quickcast which also takes time to finish) and even 1500 range interrupts have RUTs (like from items). If your archer is rupted at 1500 range you can either keep shooting (if it´s a caster you´re going to drop with another shot) or you can kite to keep equidistance while your few seconds rupt timer ticks down whereas their RUT interrupt ability will not be available when you start shooting again.

The only thing that actually works buying time vs. archers at 1500+ range is carrying a shield.

I still think archer damage should scale with range. Close range = more damage (but easier to rupt as the number of possible rupts increases with proximity and less distance to be closed for being caught in melee), long range = lower damage (but can´t be rupted). New archery´s Point-blank shot and long shot abilities all in one mechanic.

It's pretty easy to beat a solo archer as a caster, actually. One shot will not get you so close to death because one shot just breaks BT, which might even make it easier for casters to react to archers than other classes. And if it is a solo player, they're probably a sorc or theurg with bolt range interrupts, an SM with intercepts, a BD with insta interrupts, or an RM/cabby/wiz with 2300 range NS. On top of this, if you're really into soloing, you should have an insta 1500 range DD charge on you for extra interrupts.

Sun 9 Aug 2020 4:20 PM by Cadebrennus

inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 3:43 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 3:37 PM
Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 2:45 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 1:53 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 1:14 PM
normal shots deal more dmg than a PA and you think this is not too much? i cant find words for this kind of stupidity.....

An Archer gets interrupted when someone farts in their general direction. What don't you understand about that?

The number of interrupts at 2000+ range is low (and require Quickcast which also takes time to finish) and even 1500 range interrupts have RUTs (like from items). If your archer is rupted at 1500 range you can either keep shooting (if it´s a caster you´re going to drop with another shot) or you can kite to keep equidistance while your few seconds rupt timer ticks down whereas their RUT interrupt ability will not be available when you start shooting again.

The only thing that actually works buying time vs. archers at 1500+ range is carrying a shield.

I still think archer damage should scale with range. Close range = more damage (but easier to rupt as the number of possible rupts increases with proximity and less distance to be closed for being caught in melee), long range = lower damage (but can´t be rupted). New archery´s Point-blank shot and long shot abilities all in one mechanic.

You really should read the patch notes regarding passive block on Shield, including for classes that can't spec it.

The only time I've ever died to an Archer on my Merc was literally the very first time I ran out in the frontier, ungrouped. I was a fresh RR1 with no RPs and hadn't even hotbarred /switch yet for my shield. It was three Archers assisting, and I didn't even die from the bow damage. It was the DoT proc at th end.

So tell me how OP'ed is it that it took three of them AND a DoT proc to kill me when I didn't even have my shield out? I felt bad for them.

do you even realize your own bullshit? that was clearly before bow dmg got out of hand... apples and pears like always

Yes, 3v1, I did everything wrong, and I was still able to run out of range before they could kill me solely with Archery damage.

Clearly out of hand lmfao

Sun 9 Aug 2020 4:30 PM by Horus

Bow rangers can do 2 things well. Add and keep defense.

In both situations there are things you can do to mitigate the above.

If they get caught by anyone out in the open they die.

Most complaints about rangers are from SBs/Infilts that think they should be able to kill whomever, wherever, and whenever they want with out risk or repercussion.

Other than keep defense, a bow ranger's only option is to wait for an enemy to attack a realmmate, then come to their defense.

Any archer could do the same...a bow ranger is just best equipped for this playstyle.

Sun 9 Aug 2020 4:30 PM by inoeth

joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 3:52 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 9:22 AM
you are hilarious, where to go then? relic docks farming pre lvl 50s? sry dudes that is just like camping DC as a ranger.
then again why do you camp there? you can do alot more rp by joining the zerg and do the volley thing, that is also boring as hell... should fit your play style

You know what's hilarious? I remember accusing you of spending all your time in Odin's one of the other (many) times that you've come here whining about an RvR game being played like an RvR game, and you insisted that you don't hang out in Odin's and made this same "where am I supposed to go" whine. I then gave you a pretty long list of where you can go as a solo and find some success, but apparently you ignored that or forgot about it altogether and decided that no, really, the only place you could possibly go as a solo is DC, where you have literally every disadvantage imaginable. And that's fine. If you get your kicks by playing solo in the stupidest ways possible because you think that's gets you better fights, more power to you, but quit bitching about it every time you die. I swear, even when you supposedly quit this game, you still came here to whine incessantly about dying in an RvR zone.

Tyrlaan wrote: The number of interrupts at 2000+ range is low (and require Quickcast which also takes time to finish) and even 1500 range interrupts have RUTs (like from items). If your archer is rupted at 1500 range you can either keep shooting (if it´s a caster you´re going to drop with another shot) or you can kite to keep equidistance while your few seconds rupt timer ticks down whereas their RUT interrupt ability will not be available when you start shooting again.

The only thing that actually works buying time vs. archers at 1500+ range is carrying a shield.

I still think archer damage should scale with range. Close range = more damage (but easier to rupt as the number of possible rupts increases with proximity and less distance to be closed for being caught in melee), long range = lower damage (but can´t be rupted). New archery´s Point-blank shot and long shot abilities all in one mechanic.

It's pretty easy to beat a solo archer as a caster, actually. One shot will not get you so close to death because one shot just breaks BT, which might even make it easier for casters to react to archers than other classes. And if it is a solo player, they're probably a sorc or theurg with bolt range interrupts, an SM with intercepts, a BD with insta interrupts, or an RM/cabby/wiz with 2300 range NS. On top of this, if you're really into soloing, you should have an insta 1500 range DD charge on you for extra interrupts.

so Beno is a better spot with even better options for adders? and yeah i never hang out in og because there is zero action normally... albs and hibs hang out at their rofl safe add zones all the time

Sun 9 Aug 2020 4:31 PM by inoeth

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 4:20 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 3:43 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 3:37 PM
Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 2:45 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 1:53 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 1:14 PM
normal shots deal more dmg than a PA and you think this is not too much? i cant find words for this kind of stupidity.....

An Archer gets interrupted when someone farts in their general direction. What don't you understand about that?

The number of interrupts at 2000+ range is low (and require Quickcast which also takes time to finish) and even 1500 range interrupts have RUTs (like from items). If your archer is rupted at 1500 range you can either keep shooting (if it´s a caster you´re going to drop with another shot) or you can kite to keep equidistance while your few seconds rupt timer ticks down whereas their RUT interrupt ability will not be available when you start shooting again.

The only thing that actually works buying time vs. archers at 1500+ range is carrying a shield.

I still think archer damage should scale with range. Close range = more damage (but easier to rupt as the number of possible rupts increases with proximity and less distance to be closed for being caught in melee), long range = lower damage (but can´t be rupted). New archery´s Point-blank shot and long shot abilities all in one mechanic.

You really should read the patch notes regarding passive block on Shield, including for classes that can't spec it.

The only time I've ever died to an Archer on my Merc was literally the very first time I ran out in the frontier, ungrouped. I was a fresh RR1 with no RPs and hadn't even hotbarred /switch yet for my shield. It was three Archers assisting, and I didn't even die from the bow damage. It was the DoT proc at th end.

So tell me how OP'ed is it that it took three of them AND a DoT proc to kill me when I didn't even have my shield out? I felt bad for them.

do you even realize your own bullshit? that was clearly before bow dmg got out of hand... apples and pears like always

Yes, 3v1, I did everything wrong, and I was still able to run out of range before they could kill me solely with Archery damage.

Clearly out of hand lmfao

you did not get it... what did i expect from you anyways?

Sun 9 Aug 2020 4:32 PM by inoeth

Horus wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 4:30 PM
Bow rangers can do 2 things well. Add and keep defense.

In both situations there are things you can do to mitigate the above.

If they get caught by anyone out in the open they die.

Most complaints about rangers are from SBs/Infilts that think they should be able to kill whomever, wherever, and whenever they want with out risk or repercussion.

Other than keep defense, a bow ranger's only option is to wait for an enemy to attack a realmmate, then come to their defense.

Any archer could do the same...a bow ranger is just best equipped for this playstyle.

you never get them open field because they never go open field.... see the problem?

Sun 9 Aug 2020 4:36 PM by inoeth

anyway this thread turns into offtopic bullshit thx to ignorant ranger players...

ot: ranger bow dmg is muuuuch too high!

Sun 9 Aug 2020 4:54 PM by Messerjockel

Eik,

Not sure exactly what you mean with open field but for sure we play that we are efficient and not like our opponents want us too.

Maybe SB is not the right class for you.

BR and have a good day Eik

Flup, hib

P.S. if you catch me in melee I have zero chance to win.

Sun 9 Aug 2020 4:58 PM by LolaEbola

Guys, can you please stop flaming each other and just talk? So many times on these forums, I’ll read a 3 paragraph response full of good points, nodding my head the whole time, and then they insult people at the end. Why is that necessary? What does it solve?

We all love this game, let’s love each other too, yeah?

Sun 9 Aug 2020 8:24 PM by Cadebrennus

inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 4:31 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 4:20 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 3:43 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 3:37 PM
Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 2:45 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 1:53 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Aug 2020 1:14 PM
normal shots deal more dmg than a PA and you think this is not too much? i cant find words for this kind of stupidity.....

An Archer gets interrupted when someone farts in their general direction. What don't you understand about that?

The number of interrupts at 2000+ range is low (and require Quickcast which also takes time to finish) and even 1500 range interrupts have RUTs (like from items). If your archer is rupted at 1500 range you can either keep shooting (if it´s a caster you´re going to drop with another shot) or you can kite to keep equidistance while your few seconds rupt timer ticks down whereas their RUT interrupt ability will not be available when you start shooting again.

The only thing that actually works buying time vs. archers at 1500+ range is carrying a shield.

I still think archer damage should scale with range. Close range = more damage (but easier to rupt as the number of possible rupts increases with proximity and less distance to be closed for being caught in melee), long range = lower damage (but can´t be rupted). New archery´s Point-blank shot and long shot abilities all in one mechanic.

You really should read the patch notes regarding passive block on Shield, including for classes that can't spec it.

The only time I've ever died to an Archer on my Merc was literally the very first time I ran out in the frontier, ungrouped. I was a fresh RR1 with no RPs and hadn't even hotbarred /switch yet for my shield. It was three Archers assisting, and I didn't even die from the bow damage. It was the DoT proc at th end.

So tell me how OP'ed is it that it took three of them AND a DoT proc to kill me when I didn't even have my shield out? I felt bad for them.

do you even realize your own bullshit? that was clearly before bow dmg got out of hand... apples and pears like always

Yes, 3v1, I did everything wrong, and I was still able to run out of range before they could kill me solely with Archery damage.

Clearly out of hand lmfao

you did not get it... what did i expect from you anyways?

Before? Bow damage isn't much different now. Clearly you don't read patch notes or pay attention to combat logs.

For a guy who plays at least 21-28 hours a week you are amazingly clueless about this server and about this game.

Mon 10 Aug 2020 6:51 AM by inoeth

you clearly do not play this server, otherwise you would know that things got out of hand... but well its you, i dont expect anything serious from you.

Mon 10 Aug 2020 7:56 AM by Cadebrennus

inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 6:51 AM
you clearly do not play this server, otherwise you would know that things got out of hand... but well its you, i dont expect anything serious from you.

Everything is out of hand according to you, and style changes are also apparently needed to shore up your deficiencies in skill.

Mon 10 Aug 2020 9:23 AM by inoeth

no not everything, just rangers and your stupid trolling.
do you have any argument besides your ridicolous "skill" accusation?

fact: old styles sucked, thats why they got changed several times on live servers
fact: GMs already did some style changes here.
fact: GMs plan to do further style changes.

fact: cadebrennus does not play daoc, still gives "advice" for classes he does not play, nor have a clue about, oh and if he would play them those would be the ones who have best styles and available weapons in their set.

really dude get lost and stop posting here.
or log in duel me and show your "skill" ... but well you will refuse out of obvious lack of it.

Mon 10 Aug 2020 12:11 PM by Siouxsie

inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 6:51 AM
you clearly do not play this server, otherwise you would know that things got out of hand... but well its you, i dont expect anything serious from you.

Cadebrennus needs to roll a mid to see just how craptastic RVRing as a solo stealther mid is.

Mon 10 Aug 2020 3:20 PM by

Uthred

Inoeth and Cade, pls stop the offtopic and insults. Either stay on topic or dont post in here. No one is interested in your personal kindergarten. Thank you for understanding.

Mon 10 Aug 2020 10:58 PM by Gildar

Rangers and archers in general are too strong.

A bunch of archers can disrupt 3 fg sieging s keep ...

Uthred pls do something on that.

This is one of the reasons that Hib can hold 6 relics for so long

Tue 11 Aug 2020 8:44 AM by Cadebrennus

Gildar wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 10:58 PM
Rangers and archers in general are too strong.

A bunch of archers can disrupt 3 fg sieging s keep ...

Uthred pls do something on that.

This is one of the reasons that Hib can hold 6 relics for so long

I think it's good that Archers finally have a role in Visi game play after nearly 20 years. The reason that they seem to be a real problem is that nobody has an experience countering this threat. Here are a few examples of how to counter them:

1) wear a DoT reactive shield of the largest size possible on your class. The passive block chance is ridiculously high on this server, even for unspecced Shield

2) get your Assassins to move out in teams and farm them. Invite Assassins to your Visi groups so that they have heals.

3) use friendly Archers as a direct counter.

4) focus on Nearsight and bolt range interrupts. A dry fart in their general direction disrupts Archers who have no counter to this.

The whines come primarily because people don't know how to counter the current tactics. Instead of whining people should come up with new tactics.

Tue 11 Aug 2020 11:51 AM by Dunga

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 8:44 AM
Gildar wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 10:58 PM
Rangers and archers in general are too strong.

A bunch of archers can disrupt 3 fg sieging s keep ...

Uthred pls do something on that.

This is one of the reasons that Hib can hold 6 relics for so long

I think it's good that Afchers finally have a role in Visi game play after nearly 20 years. The reason that they seem to be a real problem is that nobody has an experience countering this threat. Here are a few examples of how to counter them:

1) wear a DoT reactive shield of the largest size possible on your class. The passive block chance is ridiculously high on this server, even for unspecced Shield

2) get your Assassins to move out in teams and farm them. Invite Assassins to your Visi groups so that they have heals.

3) use friendly Archers as a direct counter.

4) focus on Nearsight and bolt range interrupts. A dry fart in their general direction disrupts Archers who have no counter to this.

The whines come primarily because people don't know how to counter the current tactics. Instead of whining people should come up with new tactics.

1. that procc should have 300range... max range for that proccs are, or should be, 1500 with some dds. u will be hit far away....
2. mostly u can not reach the points where they are. even if u are 2 grps of sbs....
3. that can work. but the most guys who want to play a bow class right now would go to hib. i dont know why

4. if u cant see them u cannt cast on them. inside a keep,at the second door gtaoe,catas and volly help

i dont know if u cannt or will not see the point

its not a problem when u have 1,2 volly rangers/bow user. its been a problem when u have much more at one time or a grp of them who are able of assist. its also a problem when 1 of the 3 bowclasses have double the damage. if so, people will see that and say... time for a new class, hib has all relics and the strongest bowclass....ok, the damage come also from the relics, for sure. without these it would not so a huge diffrent,but one thing leads to another....
inoeth shows the screenshots/damage. that damage should be fine?in particular from a class that can hide or stay at safe spots?
my hunter is right now 45+11+rr bowspec, and i do nearly half of the damage compared to a ranger, with less range and no perma damadd. i would realy like to see what happens when scouts become a d/q buff

yes all 3 classes can or do this at keeps/safe spots, but if you are already the most and strongest bow class it will be difficult at a certain point.

Tue 11 Aug 2020 3:07 PM by Cadebrennus

Dunga wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 11:51 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 8:44 AM
Gildar wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 10:58 PM
Rangers and archers in general are too strong.

A bunch of archers can disrupt 3 fg sieging s keep ...

Uthred pls do something on that.

This is one of the reasons that Hib can hold 6 relics for so long

I think it's good that Afchers finally have a role in Visi game play after nearly 20 years. The reason that they seem to be a real problem is that nobody has an experience countering this threat. Here are a few examples of how to counter them:

1) wear a DoT reactive shield of the largest size possible on your class. The passive block chance is ridiculously high on this server, even for unspecced Shield

2) get your Assassins to move out in teams and farm them. Invite Assassins to your Visi groups so that they have heals.

3) use friendly Archers as a direct counter.

4) focus on Nearsight and bolt range interrupts. A dry fart in their general direction disrupts Archers who have no counter to this.

The whines come primarily because people don't know how to counter the current tactics. Instead of whining people should come up with new tactics.

1. that procc should have 300range... max range for that proccs are, or should be, 1500 with some dds. u will be hit far away....
2. mostly u can not reach the points where they are. even if u are 2 grps of sbs....
3. that can work. but the most guys who want to play a bow class right now would go to hib. i dont know why
4. if u cant see them u cannt cast on them. inside a keep,at the second door gtaoe,catas and volly help

i dont know if u cannt or will not see the point its not a problem when u have 1,2 volly rangers/bow user. its been a problem when u have much more at one time or a grp of them who are able of assist. its also a problem when 1 of the 3 bowclasses have double the damage. if so, people will see that and say... time for a new class, hib has all relics and the strongest bowclass....ok, the damage come also from the relics, for sure. without these it would not so a huge diffrent,but one thing leads to another....
inoeth shows the screenshots/damage. that damage should be fine?in particular from a class that can hide or stay at safe spots?
my hunter is right now 45+11+rr bowspec, and i do nearly half of the damage compared to a ranger, with less range and no perma damadd. i would realy like to see what happens when scouts become a d/q buff

yes all 3 classes can or do this at keeps/safe spots, but if you are already the most and strongest bow class it will be difficult at a certain point.

First of all, please tell us all about this double damage that one Archer class has over the others lol

1. I don't know or care what should or shouldn't be, but the DoT is extremely effective. I got hit with a Volley arrow and blocked it no problem with 35 Shield (no engage necessary.)

I did get killed by a Ranger today when I got to play for 20 minutes. This was after I was already fighting someone else and running back to the keep already wounded, and still not completely set up on my Alb (not all hotkeys in place yet.) "Super OP'ed" lol. When I found him later in melee range he sat down and I just killed him a lot faster than he killed me.

2. There are few positions where Archers cannot be reached in melee range. The solution is in your own realm's Archer's.

3. Probably because dual wielding AND Archery has the cool factor. It's the main reason I chose Hib when leaving my Merc during the Classic/SI days when I decided to jump on a Stealth class to avoid radar groups. Soloing on a Visi in those days was impossible because of rampant radar. Mid and Alb have better ranged capability (aside from the PF DA, which is easy enough to surpass in terms of damage with a DA charge which doesn't cost any spec points.

4. If your Casters/Archers can't set GTAoe targets blind but the opposing realm can then that's a personal problem and not a game problem.

Wed 12 Aug 2020 5:41 AM by Dunga

I have reconsidered what I wrote yesterday.... to be fair, i havent the dex numbers,far behind, right now with my race and ras. that, the relics and the slower bow will
give the difference in damage.on top of that it comes the damadd. I think it's not a question that the ranger is the strongest bow class with regard to sniper spec... at the end its not so a massive difference that it looks like to me befor,but it doesn't mean that I consider the damage to be ok in this context.

i think u are right when u say its not the class per se. the high number of it and ofc hib itself makes it hard.

we will see what the +% rps stuff for mid brings. this morning it looks like more mids in the fz town....

i cannot say something to ur protips/new tactics anymore

looks like im not able to convert that stuff

Greetings

Thu 13 Aug 2020 9:52 AM by Dr4ag

From my point of view ranger is Op but only when they camping near Keep.

I spend half of my time playing solo around crauchon doing 15/25Krp Hour and i sometimes die from 3-4 ranger camping in the wall of keep who rofl me after killing me doing 2K-3K rp hour

and that's for me the most enjoyable thing in this server, the frustration i can make on people.

the only ranger who are on top 20 / 48H are the ones following Bg .

https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/realmpoints?time-frame=last-week&filter=ranger

Here you can see dontbanmebro 11L1 who's following bg 682'000 rp last week and djast/trollselfie/uigeadail who camp crauchon doing 200K a week

https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Therabbin

And me doing 800K the week playing 50/50 solo and group.

So yes Ranger deal 1K damage on crit shot while we do 400 on PA, but at least we can solo and make good rp/hour and they can't and they make low rp/hour.

Therabbin

Thu 13 Aug 2020 2:36 PM by inoeth

still, compare that to hunters and scouts and these DC campers still doing alot of RP easymode

https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/realmpoints?time-frame=last-week&filter=hunter

https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/realmpoints?time-frame=last-week&filter=scout

Thu 13 Aug 2020 2:46 PM by Horus

Dr4ag wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Aug 2020 9:52 AM
From my point of view ranger is Op but only when they camping near Keep.

I spend half of my time playing solo around crauchon doing 15/25Krp Hour and i sometimes die from 3-4 ranger camping in the wall of keep who rofl me after killing me doing 2K-3K rp hour and that's for me the most enjoyable thing in this server, the frustration i can make on people.

the only ranger who are on top 20 / 48H are the ones following Bg .

https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/realmpoints?time-frame=last-week&filter=ranger

Here you can see dontbanmebro 11L1 who's following bg 682'000 rp last week and djast/trollselfie/uigeadail who camp crauchon doing 200K a week

https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Therabbin

And me doing 800K the week playing 50/50 solo and group.

So yes Ranger deal 1K damage on crit shot while we do 400 on PA, but at least we can solo and make good rp/hour and they can't and they make low rp/hour.

Therabbin

You are 100% correct. A bow ranger is not a class built for roaming around in the open field solo. You will die. I've been killed many times by assassins, minst,skald, reavers...any melee class, when they had like 20% life and I was full with IP and purge. Why? Because when you have zero melee, you hit for like 45 a pop with no style effects. That is more or less nothing. So your safest option is just to wait on a wall or in/near a keep and let someone come to you. ...and many do. That is why I don't understand the complaining. If you die to a bow ranger it is because you put yourself in a dangerous position. Risk vs reward. And if you are an assassin you always have vanish.

Even if you are running with a BG there are tactics to mitigate your danger from Rangers..or any archer for that matter. It is up to you to use them. I've died many times from scout volley because I've stubbornly stayed on a keep roof to try and launch my own volley. Choice/consequence.

Thu 13 Aug 2020 5:40 PM by Messerjockel

@ therabbin,

Thank you for joining this thread.
I know that you are often at DC killing us poor hibs :-)

As far as I can tell you like to hunt in the majority at the bridge.

Can you let us know the specific reason for that location please?

Flup, hib

Thu 13 Aug 2020 5:44 PM by Dr4ag

Messerjockel wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Aug 2020 5:40 PM
@ therabbin,

Thank you for joining this thread.
I know that you are often at DC killing us poor hibs :-)

As far as I can tell you like to hunt in the majority at the bridge.

Can you let us know the specific reason for that location please?

Flup, hib

Actually when i dinged 11L i was majority on the bridge, after that i just camp near the keep to get the bonus rp every 15 min and feather, with a good days of farming i can have task keep for 1500/2000 every 15 min

For a 11L it's huge, is what wutan is doing all day but not same stats as me

But it's more risky, bridge is safer

Thu 13 Aug 2020 5:56 PM by Messerjockel

Thank you therabbin.

Eik,

This comment is maybe important...bridge is safer.
Keep and Especially wide open fields like water and the dock make it easy for us to kill you.
You may consider to hunt on the bridge because more chances for LOS and ranger cannot attack at max distance.

Flup, hib

Thu 13 Aug 2020 6:30 PM by inoeth

Messerjockel wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Aug 2020 5:56 PM
Thank you therabbin.

Eik,

This comment is maybe important...bridge is safer.
Keep and Especially wide open fields like water and the dock make it easy for us to kill you.
You may consider to hunt on the bridge because more chances for LOS and ranger cannot attack at max distance.

Flup, hib

rofl, get lost with your advice
and even if you attack someone on the bridge, ppl like you tend to run to the keep to get help.... or drag into shrooms or drag into LOS of other rangers

i know what you are doing here... your alrdy strong class is fotm now and you are here to troll
wait till the nerf bat is hitting you maybe im next to laugh about you

Thu 13 Aug 2020 6:42 PM by Noashakra

Come on kokofleche is spending his days up the brigde with crit shot ready, with Mzelle starting the fight on the ground.
Lame people are everywhere.

Ranger that do a lot of RPs do it in BG or in groups. How is that OP.
Just avoid crau bridge.

Thu 13 Aug 2020 8:36 PM by Messerjockel

No trolling intended Eik.

I feel I cannot help you, everything I say or point out to you is not taking seriously by you at all.

I feel the only thing that would make you happy is if all archer and especially your archenemies the rangers get nerfed just that SB Eik has a great game experience.

Flup, hib

Thu 13 Aug 2020 9:36 PM by Lokkjim

I have a question to ask archer players and gamemasters. I welcome any and all input on this.

TLDR - Why do archers have multiple abilities that do over 500 damage in one attack?
- Bonus Question: Why does volley have the ability to crit?

I play an assassin and I've seen assassins accused of being the main propagators of this thread. But assassins have an ability that has greater requirements (in my opinion) to fulfill than an archer just to reach CLOSE to 500 damage. Even with 50 CS, 500 damage without a crit on a perforate artery rarely occurs and can't be utilized multiple times in a fight unless there are outside factors. Now I understand that an assassin has a great ability to fight in melee while an archer does not, and I am not suggesting we increase the damage of perforate artery, but as archers have multiple damage types with their arrows (afaik) why do they need multiple abilities that do over 500 damage?

Do archers really need to do that much damage to be viable? Dying to a solo archer is something I can accept, but when that archer has the ability to output that damage in a group setting you erase all risk from the class unless an assassin can get past the other stealthers to find the bow archer. Doing this with a group would be even harder with the stealth detection increase. Even then, the archer has survivability tools to prolong the fight so the assassin doesn't always kill the archer before dying to adds.

I don't have an immediate suggestion to address this issue, but I believe it should be addressed as the risk (going full bow) doesn't come close to the amount of risk a solo archer has. And please don't suggest that I should run an archer in my group to start shooting the archers that shoot me, this just adds to bigger and bigger stealth groups/zergs that no one wants. Thanks for your input.

Thu 13 Aug 2020 10:53 PM by gotwqqd

Lokkjim wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Aug 2020 9:36 PM
I have a question to ask archer players and gamemasters. I welcome any and all input on this.

TLDR - Why do archers have multiple abilities that do over 500 damage in one attack?
- Bonus Question: Why does volley have the ability to crit?

I play an assassin and I've seen assassins accused of being the main propagators of this thread. But assassins have an ability that has greater requirements (in my opinion) to fulfill than an archer just to reach CLOSE to 500 damage. Even with 50 CS, 500 damage without a crit on a perforate artery rarely occurs and can't be utilized multiple times in a fight unless there are outside factors. Now I understand that an assassin has a great ability to fight in melee while an archer does not, and I am not suggesting we increase the damage of perforate artery, but as archers have multiple damage types with their arrows (afaik) why do they need multiple abilities that do over 500 damage?

Do archers really need to do that much damage to be viable? Dying to a solo archer is something I can accept, but when that archer has the ability to output that damage in a group setting you erase all risk from the class unless an assassin can get past the other stealthers to find the bow archer. Doing this with a group would be even harder with the stealth detection increase. Even then, the archer has survivability tools to prolong the fight so the assassin doesn't always kill the archer before dying to adds.

I don't have an immediate suggestion to address this issue, but I believe it should be addressed as the risk (going full bow) doesn't come close to the amount of risk a solo archer has. And please don't suggest that I should run an archer in my group to start shooting the archers that shoot me, this just adds to bigger and bigger stealth groups/zergs that no one wants. Thanks for your input.

Ummm move
Stop going afk
Grab a shield
Park your bottom under a roof

Thu 13 Aug 2020 11:01 PM by Lokkjim

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Aug 2020 10:53 PM
Ummm move
Stop going afk
Grab a shield
Park your bottom under a roof

How does this answer either question I asked? I didn't ask how to survive the damage or how to avoid it or whatever you are suggesting. I'm asking why they have multiple ways to attack that do over 500 base damage. Also the bonus question is why can volley crit, none of your input answers either of those questions.

Edit: I got the quote part messed up and had to redo it.

Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:35 AM by Cadebrennus

Lokkjim wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Aug 2020 9:36 PM
I have a question to ask archer players and gamemasters. I welcome any and all input on this.

TLDR - Why do archers have multiple abilities that do over 500 damage in one attack?
- Bonus Question: Why does volley have the ability to crit?

I play an assassin and I've seen assassins accused of being the main propagators of this thread. But assassins have an ability that has greater requirements (in my opinion) to fulfill than an archer just to reach CLOSE to 500 damage. Even with 50 CS, 500 damage without a crit on a perforate artery rarely occurs and can't be utilized multiple times in a fight unless there are outside factors. Now I understand that an assassin has a great ability to fight in melee while an archer does not, and I am not suggesting we increase the damage of perforate artery, but as archers have multiple damage types with their arrows (afaik) why do they need multiple abilities that do over 500 damage?

Do archers really need to do that much damage to be viable? Dying to a solo archer is something I can accept, but when that archer has the ability to output that damage in a group setting you erase all risk from the class unless an assassin can get past the other stealthers to find the bow archer. Doing this with a group would be even harder with the stealth detection increase. Even then, the archer has survivability tools to prolong the fight so the assassin doesn't always kill the archer before dying to adds.

I don't have an immediate suggestion to address this issue, but I believe it should be addressed as the risk (going full bow) doesn't come close to the amount of risk a solo archer has. And please don't suggest that I should run an archer in my group to start shooting the archers that shoot me, this just adds to bigger and bigger stealth groups/zergs that no one wants. Thanks for your input.

When three Archers attack me I have a much greater chance of survival than when three Assassins attack me.

Myself and others have given many ways to counter/avoid Archery damage but if you stick your head in the sand all you end up doing is putting your butt in the air as a target.

Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:53 AM by inoeth

Lokkjim wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Aug 2020 9:36 PM
I have a question to ask archer players and gamemasters. I welcome any and all input on this.

TLDR - Why do archers have multiple abilities that do over 500 damage in one attack?
- Bonus Question: Why does volley have the ability to crit?

I play an assassin and I've seen assassins accused of being the main propagators of this thread. But assassins have an ability that has greater requirements (in my opinion) to fulfill than an archer just to reach CLOSE to 500 damage. Even with 50 CS, 500 damage without a crit on a perforate artery rarely occurs and can't be utilized multiple times in a fight unless there are outside factors. Now I understand that an assassin has a great ability to fight in melee while an archer does not, and I am not suggesting we increase the damage of perforate artery, but as archers have multiple damage types with their arrows (afaik) why do they need multiple abilities that do over 500 damage?

Do archers really need to do that much damage to be viable? Dying to a solo archer is something I can accept, but when that archer has the ability to output that damage in a group setting you erase all risk from the class unless an assassin can get past the other stealthers to find the bow archer. Doing this with a group would be even harder with the stealth detection increase. Even then, the archer has survivability tools to prolong the fight so the assassin doesn't always kill the archer before dying to adds.

I don't have an immediate suggestion to address this issue, but I believe it should be addressed as the risk (going full bow) doesn't come close to the amount of risk a solo archer has. And please don't suggest that I should run an archer in my group to start shooting the archers that shoot me, this just adds to bigger and bigger stealth groups/zergs that no one wants. Thanks for your input.

this^^ its like a PA every 3s without any ristriction plus double PA every 15s

Fri 14 Aug 2020 6:08 AM by Noashakra

Nerf ranger am I right, they are the only ones doing 450 on a normal shot!

Fri 14 Aug 2020 6:40 AM by gotwqqd

inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:53 AM
Lokkjim wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Aug 2020 9:36 PM
I have a question to ask archer players and gamemasters. I welcome any and all input on this.

TLDR - Why do archers have multiple abilities that do over 500 damage in one attack?
- Bonus Question: Why does volley have the ability to crit?

I play an assassin and I've seen assassins accused of being the main propagators of this thread. But assassins have an ability that has greater requirements (in my opinion) to fulfill than an archer just to reach CLOSE to 500 damage. Even with 50 CS, 500 damage without a crit on a perforate artery rarely occurs and can't be utilized multiple times in a fight unless there are outside factors. Now I understand that an assassin has a great ability to fight in melee while an archer does not, and I am not suggesting we increase the damage of perforate artery, but as archers have multiple damage types with their arrows (afaik) why do they need multiple abilities that do over 500 damage?

Do archers really need to do that much damage to be viable? Dying to a solo archer is something I can accept, but when that archer has the ability to output that damage in a group setting you erase all risk from the class unless an assassin can get past the other stealthers to find the bow archer. Doing this with a group would be even harder with the stealth detection increase. Even then, the archer has survivability tools to prolong the fight so the assassin doesn't always kill the archer before dying to adds.

I don't have an immediate suggestion to address this issue, but I believe it should be addressed as the risk (going full bow) doesn't come close to the amount of risk a solo archer has. And please don't suggest that I should run an archer in my group to start shooting the archers that shoot me, this just adds to bigger and bigger stealth groups/zergs that no one wants. Thanks for your input.

this^^ its like a PA every 3s without any ristriction plus double PA every 15s

I’m sure casters can put near or same damage in the time frame

Fri 14 Aug 2020 8:41 AM by inoeth

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 6:40 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:53 AM
Lokkjim wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Aug 2020 9:36 PM
I have a question to ask archer players and gamemasters. I welcome any and all input on this.

TLDR - Why do archers have multiple abilities that do over 500 damage in one attack?
- Bonus Question: Why does volley have the ability to crit?

I play an assassin and I've seen assassins accused of being the main propagators of this thread. But assassins have an ability that has greater requirements (in my opinion) to fulfill than an archer just to reach CLOSE to 500 damage. Even with 50 CS, 500 damage without a crit on a perforate artery rarely occurs and can't be utilized multiple times in a fight unless there are outside factors. Now I understand that an assassin has a great ability to fight in melee while an archer does not, and I am not suggesting we increase the damage of perforate artery, but as archers have multiple damage types with their arrows (afaik) why do they need multiple abilities that do over 500 damage?

Do archers really need to do that much damage to be viable? Dying to a solo archer is something I can accept, but when that archer has the ability to output that damage in a group setting you erase all risk from the class unless an assassin can get past the other stealthers to find the bow archer. Doing this with a group would be even harder with the stealth detection increase. Even then, the archer has survivability tools to prolong the fight so the assassin doesn't always kill the archer before dying to adds.

I don't have an immediate suggestion to address this issue, but I believe it should be addressed as the risk (going full bow) doesn't come close to the amount of risk a solo archer has. And please don't suggest that I should run an archer in my group to start shooting the archers that shoot me, this just adds to bigger and bigger stealth groups/zergs that no one wants. Thanks for your input.

this^^ its like a PA every 3s without any ristriction plus double PA every 15s
I’m sure casters can put near or same damage in the time frame

true
but
they have cloth armor
they have less hp
they dont have stealth
they dont have IP

getting PA/3s out of nowhere is ridicolous

Fri 14 Aug 2020 9:50 AM by gotwqqd

inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 8:41 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 6:40 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:53 AM
Lokkjim wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Aug 2020 9:36 PM
I have a question to ask archer players and gamemasters. I welcome any and all input on this.

TLDR - Why do archers have multiple abilities that do over 500 damage in one attack?
- Bonus Question: Why does volley have the ability to crit?

I play an assassin and I've seen assassins accused of being the main propagators of this thread. But assassins have an ability that has greater requirements (in my opinion) to fulfill than an archer just to reach CLOSE to 500 damage. Even with 50 CS, 500 damage without a crit on a perforate artery rarely occurs and can't be utilized multiple times in a fight unless there are outside factors. Now I understand that an assassin has a great ability to fight in melee while an archer does not, and I am not suggesting we increase the damage of perforate artery, but as archers have multiple damage types with their arrows (afaik) why do they need multiple abilities that do over 500 damage?

Do archers really need to do that much damage to be viable? Dying to a solo archer is something I can accept, but when that archer has the ability to output that damage in a group setting you erase all risk from the class unless an assassin can get past the other stealthers to find the bow archer. Doing this with a group would be even harder with the stealth detection increase. Even then, the archer has survivability tools to prolong the fight so the assassin doesn't always kill the archer before dying to adds.

I don't have an immediate suggestion to address this issue, but I believe it should be addressed as the risk (going full bow) doesn't come close to the amount of risk a solo archer has. And please don't suggest that I should run an archer in my group to start shooting the archers that shoot me, this just adds to bigger and bigger stealth groups/zergs that no one wants. Thanks for your input.

this^^ its like a PA every 3s without any ristriction plus double PA every 15s
I’m sure casters can put near or same damage in the time frame

true
but
they have cloth armor
they have less hp
they dont have stealth
they dont have IP

getting PA/3s out of nowhere is ridicolous

they have quick cast
They have CC

Fri 14 Aug 2020 10:31 AM by inoeth

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 9:50 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 8:41 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 6:40 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:53 AM
Lokkjim wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Aug 2020 9:36 PM
I have a question to ask archer players and gamemasters. I welcome any and all input on this.

TLDR - Why do archers have multiple abilities that do over 500 damage in one attack?
- Bonus Question: Why does volley have the ability to crit?

I play an assassin and I've seen assassins accused of being the main propagators of this thread. But assassins have an ability that has greater requirements (in my opinion) to fulfill than an archer just to reach CLOSE to 500 damage. Even with 50 CS, 500 damage without a crit on a perforate artery rarely occurs and can't be utilized multiple times in a fight unless there are outside factors. Now I understand that an assassin has a great ability to fight in melee while an archer does not, and I am not suggesting we increase the damage of perforate artery, but as archers have multiple damage types with their arrows (afaik) why do they need multiple abilities that do over 500 damage?

Do archers really need to do that much damage to be viable? Dying to a solo archer is something I can accept, but when that archer has the ability to output that damage in a group setting you erase all risk from the class unless an assassin can get past the other stealthers to find the bow archer. Doing this with a group would be even harder with the stealth detection increase. Even then, the archer has survivability tools to prolong the fight so the assassin doesn't always kill the archer before dying to adds.

I don't have an immediate suggestion to address this issue, but I believe it should be addressed as the risk (going full bow) doesn't come close to the amount of risk a solo archer has. And please don't suggest that I should run an archer in my group to start shooting the archers that shoot me, this just adds to bigger and bigger stealth groups/zergs that no one wants. Thanks for your input.

this^^ its like a PA every 3s without any ristriction plus double PA every 15s
I’m sure casters can put near or same damage in the time frame

true
but
they have cloth armor
they have less hp
they dont have stealth
they dont have IP

getting PA/3s out of nowhere is ridicolous
they have quick cast
They have CC

still you see them coming can take actions like running away or engage somehow.
vs archers you cant because you are fkn dead 2s after you see them or even faster

Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:21 PM by Cadebrennus

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 9:50 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 8:41 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 6:40 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:53 AM
Lokkjim wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Aug 2020 9:36 PM
I have a question to ask archer players and gamemasters. I welcome any and all input on this.

TLDR - Why do archers have multiple abilities that do over 500 damage in one attack?
- Bonus Question: Why does volley have the ability to crit?

I play an assassin and I've seen assassins accused of being the main propagators of this thread. But assassins have an ability that has greater requirements (in my opinion) to fulfill than an archer just to reach CLOSE to 500 damage. Even with 50 CS, 500 damage without a crit on a perforate artery rarely occurs and can't be utilized multiple times in a fight unless there are outside factors. Now I understand that an assassin has a great ability to fight in melee while an archer does not, and I am not suggesting we increase the damage of perforate artery, but as archers have multiple damage types with their arrows (afaik) why do they need multiple abilities that do over 500 damage?

Do archers really need to do that much damage to be viable? Dying to a solo archer is something I can accept, but when that archer has the ability to output that damage in a group setting you erase all risk from the class unless an assassin can get past the other stealthers to find the bow archer. Doing this with a group would be even harder with the stealth detection increase. Even then, the archer has survivability tools to prolong the fight so the assassin doesn't always kill the archer before dying to adds.

I don't have an immediate suggestion to address this issue, but I believe it should be addressed as the risk (going full bow) doesn't come close to the amount of risk a solo archer has. And please don't suggest that I should run an archer in my group to start shooting the archers that shoot me, this just adds to bigger and bigger stealth groups/zergs that no one wants. Thanks for your input.

this^^ its like a PA every 3s without any ristriction plus double PA every 15s
I’m sure casters can put near or same damage in the time frame

true
but
they have cloth armor
they have less hp
they dont have stealth
they dont have IP

getting PA/3s out of nowhere is ridicolous
they have quick cast
They have CC

They also have group and solo utility, and some even have speed (not speed burst), they also have self BT, some have PBT.

Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:48 PM by gotwqqd

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:21 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 9:50 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 8:41 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 6:40 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:53 AM
Lokkjim wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Aug 2020 9:36 PM
I have a question to ask archer players and gamemasters. I welcome any and all input on this.

TLDR - Why do archers have multiple abilities that do over 500 damage in one attack?
- Bonus Question: Why does volley have the ability to crit?

I play an assassin and I've seen assassins accused of being the main propagators of this thread. But assassins have an ability that has greater requirements (in my opinion) to fulfill than an archer just to reach CLOSE to 500 damage. Even with 50 CS, 500 damage without a crit on a perforate artery rarely occurs and can't be utilized multiple times in a fight unless there are outside factors. Now I understand that an assassin has a great ability to fight in melee while an archer does not, and I am not suggesting we increase the damage of perforate artery, but as archers have multiple damage types with their arrows (afaik) why do they need multiple abilities that do over 500 damage?

Do archers really need to do that much damage to be viable? Dying to a solo archer is something I can accept, but when that archer has the ability to output that damage in a group setting you erase all risk from the class unless an assassin can get past the other stealthers to find the bow archer. Doing this with a group would be even harder with the stealth detection increase. Even then, the archer has survivability tools to prolong the fight so the assassin doesn't always kill the archer before dying to adds.

I don't have an immediate suggestion to address this issue, but I believe it should be addressed as the risk (going full bow) doesn't come close to the amount of risk a solo archer has. And please don't suggest that I should run an archer in my group to start shooting the archers that shoot me, this just adds to bigger and bigger stealth groups/zergs that no one wants. Thanks for your input.

this^^ its like a PA every 3s without any ristriction plus double PA every 15s
I’m sure casters can put near or same damage in the time frame

true
but
they have cloth armor
they have less hp
they dont have stealth
they dont have IP

getting PA/3s out of nowhere is ridicolous
they have quick cast
They have CC

They also have group and solo utility, and some even have speed (not speed burst), they also have self BT, some have PBT.

Yes
But I just wanted to list what all had

Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:49 PM by gotwqqd

inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 10:31 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 9:50 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 8:41 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 6:40 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:53 AM
Lokkjim wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Aug 2020 9:36 PM
I have a question to ask archer players and gamemasters. I welcome any and all input on this.

TLDR - Why do archers have multiple abilities that do over 500 damage in one attack?
- Bonus Question: Why does volley have the ability to crit?

I play an assassin and I've seen assassins accused of being the main propagators of this thread. But assassins have an ability that has greater requirements (in my opinion) to fulfill than an archer just to reach CLOSE to 500 damage. Even with 50 CS, 500 damage without a crit on a perforate artery rarely occurs and can't be utilized multiple times in a fight unless there are outside factors. Now I understand that an assassin has a great ability to fight in melee while an archer does not, and I am not suggesting we increase the damage of perforate artery, but as archers have multiple damage types with their arrows (afaik) why do they need multiple abilities that do over 500 damage?

Do archers really need to do that much damage to be viable? Dying to a solo archer is something I can accept, but when that archer has the ability to output that damage in a group setting you erase all risk from the class unless an assassin can get past the other stealthers to find the bow archer. Doing this with a group would be even harder with the stealth detection increase. Even then, the archer has survivability tools to prolong the fight so the assassin doesn't always kill the archer before dying to adds.

I don't have an immediate suggestion to address this issue, but I believe it should be addressed as the risk (going full bow) doesn't come close to the amount of risk a solo archer has. And please don't suggest that I should run an archer in my group to start shooting the archers that shoot me, this just adds to bigger and bigger stealth groups/zergs that no one wants. Thanks for your input.

this^^ its like a PA every 3s without any ristriction plus double PA every 15s
I’m sure casters can put near or same damage in the time frame

true
but
they have cloth armor
they have less hp
they dont have stealth
they dont have IP

getting PA/3s out of nowhere is ridicolous
they have quick cast
They have CC

still you see them coming can take actions like running away or engage somehow.
vs archers you cant because you are fkn dead 2s after you see them or even faster

I have no sympathy for a class that pretty much can kill most classes solo(or almost all if grouped) complaining about dying to multiple enemies

Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:00 PM by Lokkjim

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:35 AM
When three Archers attack me I have a much greater chance of survival than when three Assassins attack me.

Myself and others have given many ways to counter/avoid Archery damage but if you stick your head in the sand all you end up doing is putting your butt in the air as a target.

Again, I am not asking how to counter archery. I put the TLDR so you would know my main point, instead you assume I'm another character who doesn't know how to play. I'm asking why they need multiple abilities that do over 500 damage to be viable.

Fri 14 Aug 2020 6:20 PM by Noashakra

Lokkjim wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:00 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:35 AM
When three Archers attack me I have a much greater chance of survival than when three Assassins attack me.

Myself and others have given many ways to counter/avoid Archery damage but if you stick your head in the sand all you end up doing is putting your butt in the air as a target.

Again, I am not asking how to counter archery. I put the TLDR so you would know my main point, instead you assume I'm another character who doesn't know how to play. I'm asking why they need multiple abilities that do over 500 damage to be viable.

Play one and you will understand. The fact you have no quickcast/sureshot means you have to do enough damage before getting rupted and dying yourself. And it happens a lot with all the pets and instants in this game.

Fri 14 Aug 2020 7:06 PM by Lokkjim

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 6:20 PM
Play one and you will understand. The fact you have no quickcast/sureshot means you have to do enough damage before getting rupted and dying yourself. And it happens a lot with all the pets and instants in this game.

I understand having the ability to output that damage solo, I said that as well in my main post. But the fact that they can output that kind of damage in a group setting is kind of ridiculous. Again, being in a group as an archer erases most of the risk that a solo archer faces unless they try to fight a coordinated group, which they can avoid with stealth. In a group setting, I don't think they need access to that much damage. Another point I made is that assassins have a more difficult time getting close to 500 base damage on an attack that can only be used from stealth while an archer has access to 500 damage repeatedly throughout the fight unless they get interrupted.

So I guess I'll rephrase my question, why do archers need access to multiple abilities that do over 500 damage, repeatedly, when they are in a group?

Fri 14 Aug 2020 7:31 PM by Noashakra

over 500? only the crit shot does that.
Then you need to compare that to a mage. With a 5.5bow and you dex, you don't hit close to what a mage is doing.
If you group, everything is OP vs smaller numbers.

Also you have a crit shot protection with a timer, so only one will hit really hard in an assit.

I am still waiting for 4 rangers to be able to take down a small man of 4 people.

And believe me, I am solo and I eat a lot of stealth zerg... Nerfing the damage will change nothing.

Fri 14 Aug 2020 8:00 PM by Lokkjim

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 7:31 PM
over 500? only the crit shot does that.
Then you need to compare that to a mage. With a 5.5bow and you dex, you don't hit close to what a mage is doing.
If you group, everything is OP vs smaller numbers.

Also you have a crit shot protection with a timer, so only one will hit really hard in an assit.

I am still waiting for 4 rangers to be able to take down a small man of 4 people.

And believe me, I am solo and I eat a lot of stealth zerg... Nerfing the damage will change nothing.

You, yourself, posted a picture of scouts doing 335, 405, and 441 damage with a normal shot against a character with spec AF buff and studded armor. Add on the dex/qui buff that a bow spec keen ranger would normally get, choice of arrow type to maximize damage, and the damage add and you can see that a ranger will do 500 damage on a normal shot. Why do they need this much damage in a group setting? I put it towards all archers because it's still a matter of fact that they can do this much damage repeatedly, in a group setting, in which they can pick the fights most of the time.

Fri 14 Aug 2020 8:07 PM by Noashakra

let says they do 500, what is the difference between 500x3 and 450x3. On top, albs stealth group run with ministrels that can mez/stun the targets and they can root you to death to make you unable to rupt them in melee.
Meanwhile ranger that do 500 are tickling you in melee and have no way to counter you in melee...

I took an assist of 3 hunters yesterday and believe me, it's exactly the same in the end.

Fri 14 Aug 2020 8:09 PM by Strained Mind

remove MoA as a ranger RA. problem fixed

Fri 14 Aug 2020 8:17 PM by Lokkjim

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 8:07 PM
let says they do 500, what is the difference between 500x3 and 450x3. On top, albs stealth group run with ministrels that can mez/stun the targets and they can root you to death to make you unable to rupt them in melee.
Meanwhile ranger that do 500 are tickling you in melee and have no way to counter you in melee...

I took an assist of 3 hunters yesterday and believe me, it's exactly the same in the end.

That's exactly my point, it's all the same, and that's why I put it towards all archers instead of just rangers. Why do ARCHERS need access to this much damage in a group setting? Where they probably won't be getting interrupted because again they can pick their fights most of the time. Giving that much damage just makes players want to group more, so they can counter the adds, which in turn leads to bigger and bigger stealth groups.

Fri 14 Aug 2020 9:30 PM by daytonchambers

Lokkjim wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 8:17 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 8:07 PM
let says they do 500, what is the difference between 500x3 and 450x3. On top, albs stealth group run with ministrels that can mez/stun the targets and they can root you to death to make you unable to rupt them in melee.
Meanwhile ranger that do 500 are tickling you in melee and have no way to counter you in melee...

I took an assist of 3 hunters yesterday and believe me, it's exactly the same in the end.

That's exactly my point, it's all the same, and that's why I put it towards all archers instead of just rangers. Why do ARCHERS need access to this much damage in a group setting? Where they probably won't be getting interrupted because again they can pick their fights most of the time. Giving that much damage just makes players want to group more, so they can counter the adds, which in turn leads to bigger and bigger stealth groups.

Hate to break it to you but archers were grouping before the "archery fix", and at that time they were complaining that the damage was so poor they NEEDED to group in order to kill anything.

Then the archery buff happened and they still grouped up anyways. They just killed people faster.

Nerfing the damage will not fix what you want the nerf to fix, unless the nerf is something like a progressive damage decrese from multiple archer shots on one target and/or increased miss rates that grow with additional attackers on a target.

Fri 14 Aug 2020 10:27 PM by Lokkjim

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 9:30 PM
Hate to break it to you but archers were grouping before the "archery fix", and at that time they were complaining that the damage was so poor they NEEDED to group in order to kill anything.

Then the archery buff happened and they still grouped up anyways. They just killed people faster.

Nerfing the damage will not fix what you want the nerf to fix, unless the nerf is something like a progressive damage decrese from multiple archer shots on one target and/or increased miss rates that grow with additional attackers on a target.

That's a great idea, I think, and that's what I asked for because I didn't have an idea on how to fix it.

Sat 15 Aug 2020 6:48 AM by Cadebrennus

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 9:30 PM
Lokkjim wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 8:17 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 8:07 PM
let says they do 500, what is the difference between 500x3 and 450x3. On top, albs stealth group run with ministrels that can mez/stun the targets and they can root you to death to make you unable to rupt them in melee.
Meanwhile ranger that do 500 are tickling you in melee and have no way to counter you in melee...

I took an assist of 3 hunters yesterday and believe me, it's exactly the same in the end.

That's exactly my point, it's all the same, and that's why I put it towards all archers instead of just rangers. Why do ARCHERS need access to this much damage in a group setting? Where they probably won't be getting interrupted because again they can pick their fights most of the time. Giving that much damage just makes players want to group more, so they can counter the adds, which in turn leads to bigger and bigger stealth groups.

Hate to break it to you but archers were grouping before the "archery fix", and at that time they were complaining that the damage was so poor they NEEDED to group in order to kill anything.

Then the archery buff happened and they still grouped up anyways. They just killed people faster.

Nerfing the damage will not fix what you want the nerf to fix, unless the nerf is something like a progressive damage decrese from multiple archer shots on one target and/or increased miss rates that grow with additional attackers on a target.

If that's done then it should also apply to spells, melee, etc.

Sat 15 Aug 2020 7:13 AM by Noashakra

why complain about 3 ranger that get destroyed by any small man of 2+ when alb with 1 ministrel and 2 other scout/inf will dominate everything?

Sat 15 Aug 2020 10:27 AM by Cipon

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 9:30 PM
Nerfing the damage will not fix what you want the nerf to fix, unless the nerf is something like a progressive damage decrese from multiple archer shots on one target and/or increased miss rates that grow with additional attackers on a target.

decreasing the damages from multiple archers on the same target seems to be a good idea for me.

Sat 15 Aug 2020 3:26 PM by gotwqqd

Cipon wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Aug 2020 10:27 AM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 9:30 PM
Nerfing the damage will not fix what you want the nerf to fix, unless the nerf is something like a progressive damage decrese from multiple archer shots on one target and/or increased miss rates that grow with additional attackers on a target.

decreasing the damages from multiple archers on the same target seems to be a good idea for me.

Gotta do it to al ranged then.... why should casters be different, if anything with all their added utility they should have this done first.

Unless you are talking about volley... a possible good fix is no damage from a second archer within the redraw time

Sat 15 Aug 2020 5:01 PM by Cipon

Yeah, u dont see people complaining about beeing killed by an assist of 3 or 4 mages. The difficulty here is to find a solution (if there is a problem with archery, which I'm not sure) that suit all the playstyles (keep fights/8v8/small/solo/...).

And of course, volley should be erased from the game. This RA make no sense the way she works.

Sat 15 Aug 2020 7:02 PM by Freedomcall

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Aug 2020 3:26 PM
Cipon wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Aug 2020 10:27 AM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 9:30 PM
Nerfing the damage will not fix what you want the nerf to fix, unless the nerf is something like a progressive damage decrese from multiple archer shots on one target and/or increased miss rates that grow with additional attackers on a target.

decreasing the damages from multiple archers on the same target seems to be a good idea for me.
Gotta do it to al ranged then.... why should casters be different, if anything with all their added utility they should have this done first.

Unless you are talking about volley... a possible good fix is no damage from a second archer within the redraw time

Why do you keep comparing to casters? Do you really think it makes sense?
1. Casters wear cloths and have far less hp than archers which makes them far squishy.
2. They don't have any ability to evade or block or whatever to avoid other's attack.
3. Casters are not able to train IP, which makes archers really sturdy and successful to go melee if they want.
4. They don't have stealth, so they can be seen running to you and start casting unlike archers.
-Archers are not even seen when they are drawing the bow, so the target has no idea he is targeted until he is shot.
5. Casters are not able to shoot you from 2300 range, most of their spell are 1500 and if for bolts, 1875.

I don't agree that archers are only seen on keep siege.
I see them everywhere adding everything on field fights as well.
Last night, I saw a scout sniping 8v8 for minutes in emain he was moving back and forth and landing more than 30 shots.

Yeah, they are designed as the best adders in this game. I'm ok with that.
But is it "balanced" to guarantee the best adders this crazy dmg?

I was critshotted 1000 dmg while in fight.
I was literally in combat mode 0.1 second before, and I got critshot right after I got stunned.
Even catapults can't do that dmg you know, and they have looong load time.
Losing like 50% hp instantly from a shot from nowhere....
Is this a game or a gamble?

Sat 15 Aug 2020 7:10 PM by daytonchambers

Cadebrennus wrote:
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 9:30 PM
Hate to break it to you but archers were grouping before the "archery fix", and at that time they were complaining that the damage was so poor they NEEDED to group in order to kill anything.

Then the archery buff happened and they still grouped up anyways. They just killed people faster.

Nerfing the damage will not fix what you want the nerf to fix, unless the nerf is something like a progressive damage decrese from multiple archer shots on one target and/or increased miss rates that grow with additional attackers on a target.

If that's done then it should also apply to spells, melee, etc.

I agree!

One of the reasons that caster bolts are under-valued is because a similar mechanic is in place for them where the bolt has a higher miss rate if the target is in combat with somebody else.

So, technically, the code for bolt misses could be applied to archery which would increase miss rates when there are multiple attackers.

Mon 17 Aug 2020 8:01 AM by inoeth

Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Aug 2020 7:02 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Aug 2020 3:26 PM
Cipon wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Aug 2020 10:27 AM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 9:30 PM
Nerfing the damage will not fix what you want the nerf to fix, unless the nerf is something like a progressive damage decrese from multiple archer shots on one target and/or increased miss rates that grow with additional attackers on a target.

decreasing the damages from multiple archers on the same target seems to be a good idea for me.
Gotta do it to al ranged then.... why should casters be different, if anything with all their added utility they should have this done first.

Unless you are talking about volley... a possible good fix is no damage from a second archer within the redraw time

Why do you keep comparing to casters? Do you really think it makes sense?
1. Casters wear cloths and have far less hp than archers which makes them far squishy.
2. They don't have any ability to evade or block or whatever to avoid other's attack.
3. Casters are not able to train IP, which makes archers really sturdy and successful to go melee if they want.
4. They don't have stealth, so they can be seen running to you and start casting unlike archers.
-Archers are not even seen when they are drawing the bow, so the target has no idea he is targeted until he is shot.
5. Casters are not able to shoot you from 2300 range, most of their spell are 1500 and if for bolts, 1875.

I don't agree that archers are only seen on keep siege.
I see them everywhere adding everything on field fights as well.
Last night, I saw a scout sniping 8v8 for minutes in emain he was moving back and forth and landing more than 30 shots.

Yeah, they are designed as the best adders in this game. I'm ok with that.
But is it "balanced" to guarantee the best adders this crazy dmg?

I was critshotted 1000 dmg while in fight.
I was literally in combat mode 0.1 second before, and I got critshot right after I got stunned.
Even catapults can't do that dmg you know, and they have looong load time.
Losing like 50% hp instantly from a shot from nowhere....
Is this a game or a gamble?

100%

Mon 17 Aug 2020 8:13 AM by inoeth

from my point of view archery was fine before the buff, i said that multiple times.
it was argumented that they need a dmg increase to increase their solo viability which is bullshit like we experience now, i said that too.
if you want archers to be more viable in solo play, give them better melee or the tools which they always had on live like camuflage and TS/Mos.
rangers and hunters are already pretty good melees while scouts struggled, they now have their root style which is useless vs. most classes and really just annoying.
from the live servers i remember that dedicated melee scouts have been really really strong, at least i feared them.

so what is the conclusion?

- revert archery changes
-give camuflage
-give specable mos/TS
-remove root style from scouts
-give the scout something that increases their melee dmg like an insta DA buff similar to the reavers

Mon 17 Aug 2020 10:54 AM by Messerjockel

I maybe missed the point but were not all damage increase from Q1 2020 already removed 1-2 weeks after they were released because players complained and archers are at this moment exactly where they were 18 month ago when the server was released?
At the moment ranger still have 10% from relics which for sure helps them.

Flup,hib

Mon 17 Aug 2020 11:06 AM by inoeth

Messerjockel wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Aug 2020 10:54 AM
I maybe missed the point but were not all damage increase from Q1 2020 already removed 1-2 weeks after they were released because players complained and archers are at this moment exactly where they were 18 month ago when the server was released?
At the moment ranger still have 10% from relics which for sure helps them.

Flup,hib

dont think so... before the changes there was literally no (very very little) dmg increase 35-50
is used to have only 27 bow on my hunter and was able to shoot for 220-250, i now testing hybrid specs with 40 bow and i shoot for 330-350

if it got removed there would be no initiative for spec bow higher than 35 which ppl like you yourself do

Mon 17 Aug 2020 11:43 AM by Lokkjim

Messerjockel wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Aug 2020 10:54 AM
I maybe missed the point but were not all damage increase from Q1 2020 already removed 1-2 weeks after they were released because players complained and archers are at this moment exactly where they were 18 month ago when the server was released?
At the moment ranger still have 10% from relics which for sure helps them.

Flup,hib

I can't remember exactly what the numbers were or if I'm confusing this with something else, but I think they implemented the change and then decreased the numbers, still a buff from what it was but not as much as they originally planned.

It would be great to get a GM's input on anything in this thread.

Mon 17 Aug 2020 2:44 PM by Horus

I don't know about the in combat part...maybe a stun triggers something that removes the in combat flag. Unsure..

So you were going up against 2 fairly hight rr rangers. One dropped a 1k crit on you and it was only 50% of your hit points. What if it was 1 on 1? That ranger would not be able to to land another crit and you would still be sitting there with 1K hits + legion heal + insta heal pot and maybe + IP. All Flup can do is hit you with a bow...no snare, no stun, no mezz, no disease, no debuff. All you have to do is get out of range with your perma sprint or get into range and interrupt him one time with a charged item or any other tool you may have. No QC with archery. 1 and done interrupt.

What did you expect the outcome to be? You are able to kill both rangers? That would be balanced? Two on 1, you lost...as it should be. If you want to complain about "adding" well welcome to DaoC RvR Realmmates protect each other. Hell, there is even a /assist macro built into the game. If you want to duel, set something up on discord and go to some far corner of EV and have at it. Damn. so many whiners who feel it us up to everyone else to change to make their ability to kill easier. God forbid you have to change your own tactics or approach. And to answer your question...it is a game AND a gamble. Every time you engage an enemy someone else could come help either from stealth or swooping at speed 6. Welcome to DaoC.

Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Aug 2020 7:02 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Aug 2020 3:26 PM
Cipon wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Aug 2020 10:27 AM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 9:30 PM
Nerfing the damage will not fix what you want the nerf to fix, unless the nerf is something like a progressive damage decrese from multiple archer shots on one target and/or increased miss rates that grow with additional attackers on a target.

decreasing the damages from multiple archers on the same target seems to be a good idea for me.
Gotta do it to al ranged then.... why should casters be different, if anything with all their added utility they should have this done first.

Unless you are talking about volley... a possible good fix is no damage from a second archer within the redraw time

Why do you keep comparing to casters? Do you really think it makes sense?
1. Casters wear cloths and have far less hp than archers which makes them far squishy.
2. They don't have any ability to evade or block or whatever to avoid other's attack.
3. Casters are not able to train IP, which makes archers really sturdy and successful to go melee if they want.
4. They don't have stealth, so they can be seen running to you and start casting unlike archers.
-Archers are not even seen when they are drawing the bow, so the target has no idea he is targeted until he is shot.
5. Casters are not able to shoot you from 2300 range, most of their spell are 1500 and if for bolts, 1875.

I don't agree that archers are only seen on keep siege.
I see them everywhere adding everything on field fights as well.
Last night, I saw a scout sniping 8v8 for minutes in emain he was moving back and forth and landing more than 30 shots.

Yeah, they are designed as the best adders in this game. I'm ok with that.
But is it "balanced" to guarantee the best adders this crazy dmg?

I was critshotted 1000 dmg while in fight.
I was literally in combat mode 0.1 second before, and I got critshot right after I got stunned.
Even catapults can't do that dmg you know, and they have looong load time.
Losing like 50% hp instantly from a shot from nowhere....
Is this a game or a gamble?

Mon 17 Aug 2020 4:12 PM by Cadebrennus

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Aug 2020 7:10 PM
Cadebrennus wrote:
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 9:30 PM
Hate to break it to you but archers were grouping before the "archery fix", and at that time they were complaining that the damage was so poor they NEEDED to group in order to kill anything.

Then the archery buff happened and they still grouped up anyways. They just killed people faster.

Nerfing the damage will not fix what you want the nerf to fix, unless the nerf is something like a progressive damage decrese from multiple archer shots on one target and/or increased miss rates that grow with additional attackers on a target.

If that's done then it should also apply to spells, melee, etc.

I agree!

One of the reasons that caster bolts are under-valued is because a similar mechanic is in place for them where the bolt has a higher miss rate if the target is in combat with somebody else.

So, technically, the code for bolt misses could be applied to archery which would increase miss rates when there are multiple attackers.

So by that logic it should apply to ALL spells and melee. Thoughts?

Mon 17 Aug 2020 4:16 PM by Cadebrennus

Horus wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Aug 2020 2:44 PM
I don't know about the in combat part...maybe a stun triggers something that removes the in combat flag. Unsure..

So you were going up against 2 fairly hight rr rangers. One dropped a 1k crit on you and it was only 50% of your hit points. What if it was 1 on 1? That ranger would not be able to to land another crit and you would still be sitting there with 1K hits + legion heal + insta heal pot and maybe + IP. All Flup can do is hit you with a bow...no snare, no stun, no mezz, no disease, no debuff. All you have to do is get out of range with your perma sprint or get into range and interrupt him one time with a charged item or any other tool you may have. No QC with archery. 1 and done interrupt.

What did you expect the outcome to be? You are able to kill both rangers? That would be balanced? Two on 1, you lost...as it should be. If you want to complain about "adding" well welcome to DaoC RvR Realmmates protect each other. Hell, there is even a /assist macro built into the game. If you want to duel, set something up on discord and go to some far corner of EV and have at it. Damn. so many whiners who feel it us up to everyone else to change to make their ability to kill easier. God forbid you have to change your own tactics or approach. And to answer your question...it is a game AND a gamble. Every time you engage an enemy someone else could come help either from stealth or swooping at speed 6. Welcome to DaoC.

Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Aug 2020 7:02 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Aug 2020 3:26 PM
Cipon wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Aug 2020 10:27 AM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 9:30 PM
Nerfing the damage will not fix what you want the nerf to fix, unless the nerf is something like a progressive damage decrese from multiple archer shots on one target and/or increased miss rates that grow with additional attackers on a target.

decreasing the damages from multiple archers on the same target seems to be a good idea for me.
Gotta do it to al ranged then.... why should casters be different, if anything with all their added utility they should have this done first.

Unless you are talking about volley... a possible good fix is no damage from a second archer within the redraw time

Why do you keep comparing to casters? Do you really think it makes sense?
1. Casters wear cloths and have far less hp than archers which makes them far squishy.
2. They don't have any ability to evade or block or whatever to avoid other's attack.
3. Casters are not able to train IP, which makes archers really sturdy and successful to go melee if they want.
4. They don't have stealth, so they can be seen running to you and start casting unlike archers.
-Archers are not even seen when they are drawing the bow, so the target has no idea he is targeted until he is shot.
5. Casters are not able to shoot you from 2300 range, most of their spell are 1500 and if for bolts, 1875.

I don't agree that archers are only seen on keep siege.
I see them everywhere adding everything on field fights as well.
Last night, I saw a scout sniping 8v8 for minutes in emain he was moving back and forth and landing more than 30 shots.

Yeah, they are designed as the best adders in this game. I'm ok with that.
But is it "balanced" to guarantee the best adders this crazy dmg?

I was critshotted 1000 dmg while in fight.
I was literally in combat mode 0.1 second before, and I got critshot right after I got stunned.
Even catapults can't do that dmg you know, and they have looong load time.
Losing like 50% hp instantly from a shot from nowhere....
Is this a game or a gamble?

.
.

Mon 17 Aug 2020 7:01 PM by Lokkjim

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Aug 2020 4:12 PM
So by that logic it should apply to ALL spells and melee. Thoughts?

Well if we went with that logic, archers' range would be 1875 at most, and they couldn't stealth. I'm honestly fine with the damage archers do in a 1v1 situation, but when they can choose to add on and do 400-500 damage a pop it gets a little ridiculous. Archers have almost no risk when they are in a group. Two archers get a speed burst, scout could have a minstrel buddy, they are more than likely spaced apart, and kill super fast. Honestly, a chance to miss with multiple archers on the same target sounds reasonable to me. Archers keep their solo ability and have an acceptable amount of risk when in a group. If anything, archers would just have to coordinate targets in a group fight, which wouldn't be hard.

Mon 17 Aug 2020 7:09 PM by Freedomcall

Horus wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Aug 2020 2:44 PM
I don't know about the in combat part...maybe a stun triggers something that removes the in combat flag. Unsure..

So you were going up against 2 fairly hight rr rangers. One dropped a 1k crit on you and it was only 50% of your hit points. What if it was 1 on 1? That ranger would not be able to to land another crit and you would still be sitting there with 1K hits + legion heal + insta heal pot and maybe + IP. All Flup can do is hit you with a bow...no snare, no stun, no mezz, no disease, no debuff. All you have to do is get out of range with your perma sprint or get into range and interrupt him one time with a charged item or any other tool you may have. No QC with archery. 1 and done interrupt.

What did you expect the outcome to be? You are able to kill both rangers? That would be balanced? Two on 1, you lost...as it should be. If you want to complain about "adding" well welcome to DaoC RvR Realmmates protect each other. Hell, there is even a /assist macro built into the game. If you want to duel, set something up on discord and go to some far corner of EV and have at it. Damn. so many whiners who feel it us up to everyone else to change to make their ability to kill easier. God forbid you have to change your own tactics or approach. And to answer your question...it is a game AND a gamble. Every time you engage an enemy someone else could come help either from stealth or swooping at speed 6. Welcome to DaoC.

Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Aug 2020 7:02 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Aug 2020 3:26 PM
Cipon wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Aug 2020 10:27 AM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 9:30 PM
Nerfing the damage will not fix what you want the nerf to fix, unless the nerf is something like a progressive damage decrese from multiple archer shots on one target and/or increased miss rates that grow with additional attackers on a target.

decreasing the damages from multiple archers on the same target seems to be a good idea for me.
Gotta do it to al ranged then.... why should casters be different, if anything with all their added utility they should have this done first.

Unless you are talking about volley... a possible good fix is no damage from a second archer within the redraw time

Why do you keep comparing to casters? Do you really think it makes sense?
1. Casters wear cloths and have far less hp than archers which makes them far squishy.
2. They don't have any ability to evade or block or whatever to avoid other's attack.
3. Casters are not able to train IP, which makes archers really sturdy and successful to go melee if they want.
4. They don't have stealth, so they can be seen running to you and start casting unlike archers.
-Archers are not even seen when they are drawing the bow, so the target has no idea he is targeted until he is shot.
5. Casters are not able to shoot you from 2300 range, most of their spell are 1500 and if for bolts, 1875.

I don't agree that archers are only seen on keep siege.
I see them everywhere adding everything on field fights as well.
Last night, I saw a scout sniping 8v8 for minutes in emain he was moving back and forth and landing more than 30 shots.

Yeah, they are designed as the best adders in this game. I'm ok with that.
But is it "balanced" to guarantee the best adders this crazy dmg?

I was critshotted 1000 dmg while in fight.
I was literally in combat mode 0.1 second before, and I got critshot right after I got stunned.
Even catapults can't do that dmg you know, and they have looong load time.
Losing like 50% hp instantly from a shot from nowhere....
Is this a game or a gamble?

LMAO What the hell is this logic?

First, what is so unsure about the combat flag?
I uploaded the screenshot for ppl like you. lmao
It is proven by screenshot and you saw it happening, but you say it is unsure? lol maybe it is not favorable to you?

Second, why do you have to consider 1v1 pov of that ranger?
That ranger apparently abandoned 1v1 ability to make himself a perfect adder/assister.
Maybe you are not very familiar to this game, but you have to change your spec, RAs, etc to optimize the play style you want(1v1, smallman, 8man, zerg).
For example, friar is known as a strong 1v1 class, but if he takes grp-friendly enh/rej specline and abandon Reflex Attack, he is not that strong in 1v1 anymore.
Will you going to cry your grp-spec friar is not strong at 1v1? lol
If this ranger wants to be strong at 1v1, he has to change his spec and RAs according to that.
And did anyone tell this ranger not to buy IP and spec for 1v1?
I don't even know why I should explain this. This is a no-brainer lol

Third, why do you make up stories that I didn't say?
I didn't say bad about adding, and also, I didn't say I need to win 1v2.
I explained why comparing archers to casters is nonsense, and why current archery dmg is excessive.
If you want to only talk about the "outcome", I would've lost even if archery dmg was halved.
Are you going to accept that as well because the result is same? =P

Maybe you are not very familiar with the word 'balance', but balance doesn't come that way.
Speccing Music to 50 shouldn't let bard spam 5 minutes mez, and speccing Reg to 50 shouldn't let druid spam 2000 single heal.
Even if someone give up everything to focus on one part, there should be always limit, and that is called balance.
If someone is able to damage 50% health at one swing, even from 2300 range, it is very obvious that there is a balance issue.

Mon 17 Aug 2020 7:30 PM by Cadebrennus

Lokkjim wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Aug 2020 7:01 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Aug 2020 4:12 PM
So by that logic it should apply to ALL spells and melee. Thoughts?

Well if we went with that logic, archers' range would be 1875 at most, and they couldn't stealth. I'm honestly fine with the damage archers do in a 1v1 situation, but when they can choose to add on and do 400-500 damage a pop it gets a little ridiculous. Archers have almost no risk when they are in a group. Two archers get a speed burst, scout could have a minstrel buddy, they are more than likely spaced apart, and kill super fast. Honestly, a chance to miss with multiple archers on the same target sounds reasonable to me. Archers keep their solo ability and have an acceptable amount of risk when in a group. If anything, archers would just have to coordinate targets in a group fight, which wouldn't be hard.

I think Archer range and damage is fine since they don't get much else. I'm all for the stealth penalty but it should only apply to multiple Stealthers, not Stealthers+Visis in the same area, and it should be a much bigger penalty. I know from experience just how hard it is to move larger groups of Soldiers stealthily vs smaller groups of Soldiers.

Archers still face a lot of hard counters with little or no recourse that were put in game specifically to counter them, starting waaaaay back when with /face and including but not limited to self casted BT, Nearsight, etc. and continuing to the present day here on Phoenix with "custom code" that affects even passive block.

Mon 17 Aug 2020 8:49 PM by Lokkjim

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Aug 2020 7:30 PM
I think Archer range and damage is fine since they don't get much else. I'm all for the stealth penalty but it should only apply to multiple Stealthers, not Stealthers+Visis in the same area, and it should be a much bigger penalty. I know from experience just how hard it is to move larger groups of Soldiers stealthily vs smaller groups of Soldiers.

Archers still face a lot of hard counters with little or no recourse that were put in game specifically to counter them, starting waaaaay back when with /face and including but not limited to self casted BT, Nearsight, etc. and continuing to the present day here on Phoenix with "custom code" that affects even passive block.

I agree that the current stealth penalty should be raised in accordance with other stealthers only. However, I was saying that archers would get no stealth at all if the change applied to all spells and melee.

And sure, archers have a lot of counters to their class, but they also have the ability to choose most of their fights. Heck, I'm an assassin and I occasionally make the wrong choice and jump a champ or something. Both classes have escape tools for that situation. There should be a risk when you decide to fight. Archers in a group have little risk as of late.

Tue 18 Aug 2020 4:54 AM by Cadebrennus

Lokkjim wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Aug 2020 8:49 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Aug 2020 7:30 PM
I think Archer range and damage is fine since they don't get much else. I'm all for the stealth penalty but it should only apply to multiple Stealthers, not Stealthers+Visis in the same area, and it should be a much bigger penalty. I know from experience just how hard it is to move larger groups of Soldiers stealthily vs smaller groups of Soldiers.

Archers still face a lot of hard counters with little or no recourse that were put in game specifically to counter them, starting waaaaay back when with /face and including but not limited to self casted BT, Nearsight, etc. and continuing to the present day here on Phoenix with "custom code" that affects even passive block.

I agree that the current stealth penalty should be raised in accordance with other stealthers only. However, I was saying that archers would get no stealth at all if the change applied to all spells and melee.

And sure, archers have a lot of counters to their class, but they also have the ability to choose most of their fights. Heck, I'm an assassin and I occasionally make the wrong choice and jump a champ or something. Both classes have escape tools for that situation. There should be a risk when you decide to fight. Archers in a group have little risk as of late.

Having less of a risk in any group can apply to any class or playstyle.

Tue 18 Aug 2020 5:54 AM by Lokkjim

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Aug 2020 4:54 AM
Having less of a risk in any group can apply to any class or playstyle.

Less risk is the keyword there. Archers in a stealth group have little to no risk. They can choose most of their fights, they can tank, they can escape, and they can assist from a ridiculous range with huge damage. Where's the risk? A bigger stealth group? You'll see them coming before they see you and with coordination, you can employ a hit and run tactic to kill one or two before they do any significant damage. Sure, maybe a stealth minstrel can wreak some havoc against hib/mid stealth groups, but that's one class, and scouts have nothing to worry about. That's why I'm focusing on all archers, instead of just rangers like the title of this thread states.

Tue 18 Aug 2020 6:44 AM by inoeth

right now i am in the mood to suggest that new archery could actually be an option.
even though i did not like it originally, it provides some cool features to the archery classes which are not just pure dmg on ridicolous range but actualy abilities.
also there are only very few high range high dmg shots which have a timer so archer grps can not 1 shot assist a target down.

it would also balance the scout class to some extend since they would get access to better buffs and speed... then this awful root shield style could be removed.

edit: i just saw, it would also grant the scout the dmg add i suggested earlier

i like it more and more

Tue 18 Aug 2020 6:58 AM by Sepplord

while i agree that "new archery" solved a lot of problems with archers...it also completely destroyed the unique gameplay feel of archery
it turned them into a different kind of stealthcasters

just like all melees in modern MMOs feel like closequartercasters and melee in DAoC has a very unique gameplay feeling

hard to describe what i mean, but i really don't want that unique archer feeling destroyed, even if am not playing an archer

Tue 18 Aug 2020 7:11 AM by inoeth

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Aug 2020 6:58 AM
while i agree that "new archery" solved a lot of problems with archers...it also completely destroyed the unique gameplay feel of archery
it turned them into a different kind of stealthcasters

just like all melees in modern MMOs feel like closequartercasters and melee in DAoC has a very unique gameplay feeling

hard to describe what i mean, but i really don't want that unique archer feeling destroyed, even if am not playing an archer

yeah really hard..... you are not playing archers and you think it would destroy the feeling? wtf

also new archery is in fact not the same for all realms, it has some class specific elements. for example the scout gets the dmg add, hunters get a short celerity, rangers get a melee skill buff.

i originally didnt like the new archery because you were forced to put alot of skill points into it to make some dmg, where you could stop at 27 with old archery. but since i do not expect snare pets to be a thing here, you are not forced to dump all the points into BC but can actually spec archery while not gimping your melee skills... hunter pov obviously.
also rangers profit from it since a whole skill line gets removed, archer rangers can also be good melees.
yeah and ofc scouts profit the most from it.

i'd say fuck nostalgia and give it a "shot" lol

Tue 18 Aug 2020 7:43 AM by gotwqqd

New archery completely blows
Killed the classes appeal

Tue 18 Aug 2020 8:08 AM by inoeth

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Aug 2020 7:43 AM
New archery completely blows
Killed the classes appeal

man i love all these "everything is shit for no reason" comments

Tue 18 Aug 2020 9:03 AM by Centenario

Archery is supposed to be the ranged physical DPS.

Shouldn't lose this "physical" aspect.

Also I always loved DAoC archery because it's very realistic and simple.

If I would associate something new to the archery ecosystem, I would first consider how it fits to this group of words:

spear, shield, studded, leather, ranger, scout, hunter, volley, longshot, draw, arrow, quiver, bow, longbow, heavy longbow, wood, fletching group of words that encompass the feel of DAoC archery

Things I could see added are:
- equipable/lootable/craftable quivers with bonuses
- new premium arrows (up to 1100 fletching, with increased cost and damages)
- snareshot (arrow to the knee)
- baseline targetable gtaoe volley for pve and keep defense no cd, just like a regular gtaoe spell
- traps usable when stealthed

Tue 18 Aug 2020 9:12 AM by inoeth

Centenario wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Aug 2020 9:03 AM
Archery is supposed to be the ranged physical DPS.

Shouldn't lose this "physical" aspect.

Also I always loved DAoC archery because it's very realistic and simple.

If I would associate something new to the archery ecosystem, I would first consider how it fits to this group of words:
spear, shield, studded, leather, ranger, scout, hunter, volley, longshot, draw, arrow, quiver, bow, longbow, heavy longbow, wood, fletching group of words that encompass the feel of DAoC archery

Things I could see added are:
- equipable/lootable/craftable quivers with bonuses
- new premium arrows (up to 1100 fletching, with increased cost and damages)
- snareshot (arrow to the knee)
- baseline targetable gtaoe volley for pve and keep defense no cd, just like a regular gtaoe spell
- traps usable when stealthed

i suggest you to get a little deeper into the new archery system before posting obvious false information

Tue 18 Aug 2020 10:09 AM by Noashakra

"realistic", you mean dodging and blocking arrows from a target you didnt see before hand?
Just trolling a bit sorry

Tue 18 Aug 2020 10:31 AM by inoeth

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Aug 2020 10:09 AM
"realistic", you mean dodging and blocking arrows from a target you didnt see before hand?
Just trolling a bit sorry

yeah i was wondering about that too... we are talking about a fantasy mmorpg aren't we?

Tue 18 Aug 2020 11:31 AM by Sepplord

Centenario wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Aug 2020 9:03 AM
Things I could see added are:
- equipable/lootable/craftable quivers with bonuses
- new premium arrows (up to 1100 fletching, with increased cost and damages)
- snareshot (arrow to the knee)
- baseline targetable gtaoe volley for pve and keep defense no cd, just like a regular gtaoe spell
- traps usable when stealthed

Those suggestions are all over the place...
-the first is a way to implement a buff, but not a suggestion on the buff itself. Congratulation, your suggestion to improve archery is "bonuses"
-the second is similar but specifies "increased damages" which has been tried, implemented, and removed again just recently
-the third, snareshot, an actual suggestion, yet imo i believe it would completely break archers and make them too strong. Snares have no immunites and permasnaring from range while doing dmg is imo a nono for a stealthclass
-the fourth is basically asking for volley baseline and removing the cooldown, wierd suggestion regarding the last pages of the discussion, and JFY "regular GTAOE spells" do have cooldowns
-the fifth again is an idea how to implement a buff, without actually mentioning the change/buff itself

Don't get me wrong, traps and equippable quivers aren't in general dumb ideas, i like the idea of traps specifically, but those ideas go into the realm of custom-classes and don't really adress the issue of how to "fix" archers

Tue 18 Aug 2020 11:44 AM by inoeth

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Aug 2020 11:31 AM
Centenario wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Aug 2020 9:03 AM
Things I could see added are:
- equipable/lootable/craftable quivers with bonuses
- new premium arrows (up to 1100 fletching, with increased cost and damages)
- snareshot (arrow to the knee)
- baseline targetable gtaoe volley for pve and keep defense no cd, just like a regular gtaoe spell
- traps usable when stealthed

Those suggestions are all over the place...
-the first is a way to implement a buff, but not a suggestion on the buff itself. Congratulation, your suggestion to improve archery is "bonuses"
-the second is similar but specifies "increased damages" which has been tried, implemented, and removed again just recently
-the third, snareshot, an actual suggestion, yet imo i believe it would completely break archers and make them too strong. Snares have no immunites and permasnaring from range while doing dmg is imo a nono for a stealthclass
-the fourth is basically asking for volley baseline and removing the cooldown, wierd suggestion regarding the last pages of the discussion, and JFY "regular GTAOE spells" do have cooldowns
-the fifth again is an idea how to implement a buff, without actually mentioning the change/buff itself

Don't get me wrong, traps and equippable quivers aren't in general dumb ideas, i like the idea of traps specifically, but those ideas go into the realm of custom-classes and don't really adress the issue of how to "fix" archers

most of it is part of new archery btw but with reduced dmg and with timers so you cant snare500dmg shoot ppl from 2300 range

Tue 18 Aug 2020 4:06 PM by Horus

Archery is fine the way it is.
If anything it needs to have the bow spec damage increased a little bit.
Maybe remove the lev 45 penetrating shot. That was not needed.
People love to talk about ranger damage without mentioning all the custom changes on Phoenix which mitigate that...
1. Increased HP - Remember that change? That affects interruptable bow damage more than anything.
2. Easy access to at least 2 insta self heals on every class.
3. Armor damage procs that interrupt at range.
3. Perma sprint due to cheap RAs and PoTs for easy escape or closing to interrupt range.
4. Self buffs available to all classes...not just classes with a buff line they can spec in.

In Classic DaoC there were soft targets and hard. In Phoenix there are no soft targets due to the above. Archery doesn't hit any harder than it did in the classic days and targets are much more robust here on Phoenix. The bottom line is certain people just don't want to have to change tactics based on Ranger Danger. Instead you feel entitled to be able to do whatever you personally prefer at the expense of others. I personally think minstrel sage pets are OPed and should be adjusted. But when I see one I adjust my tactics.

Tue 18 Aug 2020 8:20 PM by Lokkjim

Horus wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Aug 2020 4:06 PM
Archery is fine the way it is.
If anything it needs to have the bow spec damage increased a little bit.
Maybe remove the lev 45 penetrating shot. That was not needed.
People love to talk about ranger damage without mentioning all the custom changes on Phoenix which mitigate that...
1. Increased HP - Remember that change? That affects interruptable bow damage more than anything.
2. Easy access to at least 2 insta self heals on every class.
3. Armor damage procs that interrupt at range.
3. Perma sprint due to cheap RAs and PoTs for easy escape or closing to interrupt range.
4. Self buffs available to all classes...not just classes with a buff line they can spec in.

In Classic DaoC there were soft targets and hard. In Phoenix there are no soft targets due to the above. Archery doesn't hit any harder than it did in the classic days and targets are much more robust here on Phoenix. The bottom line is certain people just don't want to have to change tactics based on Ranger Danger. Instead you feel entitled to be able to do whatever you personally prefer at the expense of others. I personally think minstrel sage pets are OPed and should be adjusted. But when I see one I adjust my tactics.

Personally I'm fine with archer damage if they are solo. The huge assist damage from a huge range is a little ridiculous though.

1. Everyone has increased HP, including archers, but they also have huge damage, can pick most fights, can tank, have multiple damage type arrows, and have escape tools.
2. I'm pretty sure heal pots have always been a thing, maybe not as widespread as they are in Phoenix, not sure about an item heal.
3. Hardly anyone runs around with armor damage procs, it's either heals or ablatives. I'd be fine with nerfing the range that a reactive could hit archers from though.
4. Most classes invested in perma sprint in classic, sure it cost more points but it was recommended.
5. I'd be fine with buff pots being removed, but I think item charge buffs were always a thing so those would probably be around.

There are still soft targets for archers. When an archer can open from 2000+ range with 700 damage and kill with 3 or 4 more shots I think that classifies as a soft target. When an archer can assist to do 400 damage a pop, that might as well be a soft target.

My main issue is the damage a grouped archer can do with very little risk. They can choose most of their fights, they can tank, they can escape, and they can assist from a ridiculous range with huge damage. Where's the risk? A bigger stealth group? You'll see them coming before they see you and with coordination, you can employ a hit and run tactic to kill one or two before they do any significant damage. Sure, maybe a stealth minstrel can wreak some havoc against hib/mid stealth groups, but that's one class, and scouts have nothing to worry about.

I'd rather advocate for more solo archers than bigger stealth groups.

Tue 18 Aug 2020 8:36 PM by DinoTriz

If I was being harassed by a group of archers, I'd call in a group of assassins to take care of them.

Mice meet cats.

Tue 18 Aug 2020 9:08 PM by Forlornhope

Lokkjim wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Aug 2020 8:20 PM
Horus wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Aug 2020 4:06 PM
Archery is fine the way it is.
If anything it needs to have the bow spec damage increased a little bit.
Maybe remove the lev 45 penetrating shot. That was not needed.
People love to talk about ranger damage without mentioning all the custom changes on Phoenix which mitigate that...
1. Increased HP - Remember that change? That affects interruptable bow damage more than anything.
2. Easy access to at least 2 insta self heals on every class.
3. Armor damage procs that interrupt at range.
3. Perma sprint due to cheap RAs and PoTs for easy escape or closing to interrupt range.
4. Self buffs available to all classes...not just classes with a buff line they can spec in.

In Classic DaoC there were soft targets and hard. In Phoenix there are no soft targets due to the above. Archery doesn't hit any harder than it did in the classic days and targets are much more robust here on Phoenix. The bottom line is certain people just don't want to have to change tactics based on Ranger Danger. Instead you feel entitled to be able to do whatever you personally prefer at the expense of others. I personally think minstrel sage pets are OPed and should be adjusted. But when I see one I adjust my tactics.

Personally I'm fine with archer damage if they are solo. The huge assist damage from a huge range is a little ridiculous though.

1. Everyone has increased HP, including archers, but they also have huge damage, can pick most fights, can tank, have multiple damage type arrows, and have escape tools.
2. I'm pretty sure heal pots have always been a thing, maybe not as widespread as they are in Phoenix, not sure about an item heal.
3. Hardly anyone runs around with armor damage procs, it's either heals or ablatives. I'd be fine with nerfing the range that a reactive could hit archers from though.
4. Most classes invested in perma sprint in classic, sure it cost more points but it was recommended.
5. I'd be fine with buff pots being removed, but I think item charge buffs were always a thing so those would probably be around.

There are still soft targets for archers. When an archer can open from 2000+ range with 700 damage and kill with 3 or 4 more shots I think that classifies as a soft target. When an archer can assist to do 400 damage a pop, that might as well be a soft target.

My main issue is the damage a grouped archer can do with very little risk. They can choose most of their fights, they can tank, they can escape, and they can assist from a ridiculous range with huge damage. Where's the risk? A bigger stealth group? You'll see them coming before they see you and with coordination, you can employ a hit and run tactic to kill one or two before they do any significant damage. Sure, maybe a stealth minstrel can wreak some havoc against hib/mid stealth groups, but that's one class, and scouts have nothing to worry about.

I'd rather advocate for more solo archers than bigger stealth groups.

Where are you getting this idea that archers can tank from? lol

Tue 18 Aug 2020 9:13 PM by Messerjockel

Hello,

In the screenshot about the damage i did to Eik I was solo. I added on him when he was fighting another player at DC dock.
At the time of the shot I had 10% relic bonus, 375 dex and a 5.5 bow with dot proc. Also the highest damage add from PF line. With quickness I have a critshot ready at 4.1 seconds, a standard shot at 3.5 seconds. That is a lot of time to release a shot without interruption and if you calculate damage per second it is most likely not very high, at least for standard shot.
Ever tried to shoot people with chain or plate or a shield?
It is not fun.

It is important to keep in mind that I cannot start a fight against any, repeat any stealth class on my own at any time because they are stealth and if I see them that means I am in melee distance and with 8 points in piercing the chances to survive are quite limited or better 0 chance of survival.

That is also a reason that I am not going to close to the hot spots like the docks because there are usually stealth classes which prey on me.
I am also not using bridges ever, well, last week I walked over one once.

I made a GT for 2000 distance to have a visual help for my maximum distance.

Flup, hib.

Tue 18 Aug 2020 10:01 PM by Lokkjim

Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Aug 2020 9:08 PM
Where are you getting this idea that archers can tank from? lol

Archers have studded armor, evade 3, IP, scouts have a shield while the other 2 have a spec AF buff and dex/qui buff for more evades. Sure they can't tank as much as a pure tank but they can still live long enough for an archer assist train to kill at least one target that jumps them before they die. I'm arguing for more risk for grouped archers which could lead to more solos and less stealth groups.

Tue 18 Aug 2020 11:56 PM by imweasel

Lokkjim wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Aug 2020 10:01 PM
Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Aug 2020 9:08 PM
Where are you getting this idea that archers can tank from? lol

Archers have studded armor, evade 3, IP, scouts have a shield while the other 2 have a spec AF buff and dex/qui buff for more evades. Sure they can't tank as much as a pure tank but they can still live long enough for an archer assist train to kill at least one target that jumps them before they die. I'm arguing for more risk for grouped archers which could lead to more solos and less stealth groups.

It appears that the dev team does not share your idea for more risk for stealth groups. They encourage it.

Wed 19 Aug 2020 6:30 AM by inoeth

Horus wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Aug 2020 4:06 PM
Archery is fine the way it is.
If anything it needs to have the bow spec damage increased a little bit.
Maybe remove the lev 45 penetrating shot. That was not needed.
People love to talk about ranger damage without mentioning all the custom changes on Phoenix which mitigate that...
1. Increased HP - Remember that change? That affects interruptable bow damage more than anything.
2. Easy access to at least 2 insta self heals on every class.
3. Armor damage procs that interrupt at range.
3. Perma sprint due to cheap RAs and PoTs for easy escape or closing to interrupt range.
4. Self buffs available to all classes...not just classes with a buff line they can spec in.

In Classic DaoC there were soft targets and hard. In Phoenix there are no soft targets due to the above. Archery doesn't hit any harder than it did in the classic days and targets are much more robust here on Phoenix. The bottom line is certain people just don't want to have to change tactics based on Ranger Danger. Instead you feel entitled to be able to do whatever you personally prefer at the expense of others. I personally think minstrel sage pets are OPed and should be adjusted. But when I see one I adjust my tactics.

oh yeah great reasons to give a stealth range class the ability to 3 shot everyone.... O M G