Unattended Gameplay ?

Started 10 Aug 2020
by Gambler
in Ask the Team
Hail fellow campaigners , i recently talked to a friend of mine and told him what happened a couple days ago when my daughter felt from her bicycle and i had to rush out in the yard because she was yelling and crying. So i just dropped everything while running out and my headset felt on the keyboard and i was spamming coincidentally grp heals , which wasnt so bad for the group until i was oom but as my friend just told me i am lucky that i didnt get banned for that , while i was approx 15mins afk to watch after my kid.
So my question is now , would u call this unattended gameplay ? And if yes what kind of penalty i am expecting to this incident ?
Would also be nice if i can get an advice from a DEV / GM , tia ....
Mon 10 Aug 2020 1:12 PM by gotwqqd
Gambler wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 10:47 AM
Hail fellow campaigners , i recently talked to a friend of mine and told him what happened a couple days ago when my daughter felt from her bicycle and i had to rush out in the yard because she was yelling and crying. So i just dropped everything while running out and my headset felt on the keyboard and i was spamming coincidentally grp heals , which wasnt so bad for the group until i was oom but as my friend just told me i am lucky that i didnt get banned for that , while i was approx 15mins afk to watch after my kid.
So my question is now , would u call this unattended gameplay ? And if yes what kind of penalty i am expecting to this incident ?
Would also be nice if i can get an advice from a DEV / GM , tia ....
I was suspended two weeks and all toons deleted for running into wall in a keep
So keep that in mind
Mon 10 Aug 2020 2:34 PM by Stoertebecker
Gambler wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 10:47 AM
Hail fellow campaigners , i recently talked to a friend of mine and told him what happened a couple days ago when my daughter felt from her bicycle and i had to rush out in the yard because she was yelling and crying. So i just dropped everything while running out and my headset felt on the keyboard and i was spamming coincidentally grp heals , which wasnt so bad for the group until i was oom but as my friend just told me i am lucky that i didnt get banned for that , while i was approx 15mins afk to watch after my kid.
So my question is now , would u call this unattended gameplay ? And if yes what kind of penalty i am expecting to this incident ?
Would also be nice if i can get an advice from a DEV / GM , tia ....

As already written.. 2 weeks and all chars gone.

There is nearly zero understanding that under some circumstances RL comes first. You have to log out, make sure that you`re logged out, and then you can go.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 3:13 PM by Uthred
5. Macroing
It is allowed to bind multiple actions to a key, however, delays, repeats, and conditions are strictly forbidden as well as any other means that allow unattended game-play

1st offense: Deletion of all characters and 2-weeks ban
2nd offense: permaban of Player

So no macroing, scripting, whatever you want to call it
and also
- no coin(s) in the keyboard
- no falling asleep at the keyboard and pressing one button during the sleep coincidentally
- no headset that dropped unintentionally on the keyboard
- no "overlooking" of a gamemaster who is testing you while you continue to attack mobs
- last but not least no dogs or babies that press the same key for hours again and again while the owner of the account is at work.

To name just a few reasons why players constantly repeat casts/attacks while not being at the computer.

If you get tested and fail the test, see above. And yes, we dont do any exceptions.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 3:18 PM by gruenesschaf
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 2:34 PM
As already written.. 2 weeks and all chars gone.

There is nearly zero understanding that under some circumstances RL comes first. You have to log out, make sure that you`re logged out, and then you can go.

You only have to log out to go afk for longer periods of time if multiple accounts are playing at the same time from the same household, otherwise you can stand around afk until the auto kick as much as you want, just don't have your character do abilities while you're gone or prevent the auto kick in some way.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 3:28 PM by Stoertebecker
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 3:18 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 2:34 PM
As already written.. 2 weeks and all chars gone.

There is nearly zero understanding that under some circumstances RL comes first. You have to log out, make sure that you`re logged out, and then you can go.

You only have to log out to go afk for longer periods of time if multiple accounts are playing at the same time from the same household, otherwise you can stand around afk until the auto kick as much as you want, just don't have your character do abilities while you're gone or prevent the auto kick in some way.

And you don`t think a 2 week ban is enough for the very first offense? So it has to be all chars and rr deleted? You could just perma ban the player instead, the chance that he/she is starting all over after month of playing is nearly zero. And another player gone....
Mon 10 Aug 2020 3:57 PM by Crazyphader
It's a bit unrealistic that you always have the time to log out beforehand.

Good to know how you deal with players who actively play and support your project.

I think you should slim down your penalties for the 1st offense.

Such things happen to me from time to time. Such things can happen to everyone.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 4:02 PM by Kwall0311
Crazyphader wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 3:57 PM
It's a bit unrealistic that you always have the time to log out beforehand.

Good to know how you deal with players who actively play and support your project.

I think you should slim down your penalties for the 1st offense.

Such things happen to me from time to time. Such things can happen to everyone.

Why? Whats so hard about not having something other than yourself actively casting/using a skill .
Mon 10 Aug 2020 4:36 PM by Gambler
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 2:34 PM
Gambler wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 10:47 AM
Hail fellow campaigners , i recently talked to a friend of mine and told him what happened a couple days ago when my daughter felt from her bicycle and i had to rush out in the yard because she was yelling and crying. So i just dropped everything while running out and my headset felt on the keyboard and i was spamming coincidentally grp heals , which wasnt so bad for the group until i was oom but as my friend just told me i am lucky that i didnt get banned for that , while i was approx 15mins afk to watch after my kid.
So my question is now , would u call this unattended gameplay ? And if yes what kind of penalty i am expecting to this incident ?
Would also be nice if i can get an advice from a DEV / GM , tia ....

As already written.. 2 weeks and all chars gone.

There is nearly zero understanding that under some circumstances RL comes first. You have to log out, make sure that you`re logged out, and then you can go.
So just for my understanding to be clear , i am leveling in a group as usual somehow my kid is yelling and crying as hell and u dont know what happend , i have to log out my account before i check what happened to my kid , seriously ? so i could be banned for this , really ??? hopefully u guys who made this kind of rules have no kids and wont have kids at all !!!
Mon 10 Aug 2020 4:41 PM by Kwall0311
You dont have to log your account. Go check on your kid, but dont have something/program casting a spell for you in the group. Its pretty clear/simple rule.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 4:45 PM by Gambler
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 3:18 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 2:34 PM
As already written.. 2 weeks and all chars gone.

There is nearly zero understanding that under some circumstances RL comes first. You have to log out, make sure that you`re logged out, and then you can go.

You only have to log out to go afk for longer periods of time if multiple accounts are playing at the same time from the same household, otherwise you can stand around afk until the auto kick as much as you want, just don't have your character do abilities while you're gone or prevent the auto kick in some way.
So let me ask you something , i.e. i am standing solo afk in a relic town near to the porter , npcs , for no reason (maybe the cat) something drop on the keyboard and it start to spam a heal , a buff whatever, nobody have any advance out of this cast / spell , even i dont know i am doing this because i am afk , i wont get money , no rps ....absolutely nothing no advantage at all , u would call this macroing or afk farming or just a dump accident which happend and u cant do anything about it , because u dont know it ?
Mon 10 Aug 2020 4:48 PM by Thoralf1
Maybe the Regels are the Regels (Zitat: Dschungelcamp) but under some special circumstances you guys should be able to make a diffrence. Just needs a bit of empathy and maybe looking a bit deeper in a case.

Btw. 1st offense should be 2 weeks ban. Deleting characters should be the last weapon before perma ban.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 4:49 PM by Kwall0311
Well, to quote Uthred,

"- last but not least no dogs or babies that press the same key for hours again and again while the owner of the account is at work."

So yeah, if you have some malicious cats in your life, id just log out to be safe
Mon 10 Aug 2020 4:51 PM by fledermaus68
Ah there one can answer (Uthred) after what feels like 1000 and to get help from someone who speaks German really great now that others have decided to make a big appearance, yes, so I imagine a tour great keep it up.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 4:52 PM by Stoertebecker
Gambler wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 4:36 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 2:34 PM
Gambler wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 10:47 AM
Hail fellow campaigners , i recently talked to a friend of mine and told him what happened a couple days ago when my daughter felt from her bicycle and i had to rush out in the yard because she was yelling and crying. So i just dropped everything while running out and my headset felt on the keyboard and i was spamming coincidentally grp heals , which wasnt so bad for the group until i was oom but as my friend just told me i am lucky that i didnt get banned for that , while i was approx 15mins afk to watch after my kid.
So my question is now , would u call this unattended gameplay ? And if yes what kind of penalty i am expecting to this incident ?
Would also be nice if i can get an advice from a DEV / GM , tia ....

As already written.. 2 weeks and all chars gone.

There is nearly zero understanding that under some circumstances RL comes first. You have to log out, make sure that you`re logged out, and then you can go.
So just for my understanding to be clear , i am leveling in a group as usual somehow my kid is yelling and crying as hell and u dont know what happend , i have to log out my account before i check what happened to my kid , seriously ? so i could be banned for this , really ??? hopefully u guys who made this kind of rules have no kids and wont have kids at all !!!

Thats the way it is. If you`re playing a buff-class (as an example) and will get checked by a GM while you`re afk, you`ll get a ban because you could be a buffbot. Tank/DD may be a bit different. Staying there, doing nothing may be ok (as a non buff-class). Casting Heals/HoT/Buffs while afking is not ok.

If you have more than 1 account in your household (daughter, kids) make sure that you have 1 PC/Account. Don`t even think about to login 2 accounts on 1 Pc.
You could get banned for things that happened month ago if a bored GM checks the logs.

Kwall0311 wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 4:41 PM
You dont have to log your account. Go check on your kid, but dont have something/program casting a spell for you in the group. Its pretty clear/simple rule.

Not if you`re a shaman or other buffclass.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 4:55 PM by Crazyphader
Kwall0311 wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 4:41 PM
You dont have to log your account. Go check on your kid, but dont have something/program casting a spell for you in the group. Its pretty clear/simple rule.



Unless something unintentional happens while you are not on the pc. something like your child pushes around or hardware like a headset was placed on the keyboard or you still had numloc active and not switched it off. Sometimes in life there are emergencies.



All this was punished with a ban and the deletion of everything on the account.



So this is about non-targeted abuse. Which does not result in more effective use.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 5:24 PM by Uthred
Gambler wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 4:45 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 3:18 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 2:34 PM
As already written.. 2 weeks and all chars gone.

There is nearly zero understanding that under some circumstances RL comes first. You have to log out, make sure that you`re logged out, and then you can go.

You only have to log out to go afk for longer periods of time if multiple accounts are playing at the same time from the same household, otherwise you can stand around afk until the auto kick as much as you want, just don't have your character do abilities while you're gone or prevent the auto kick in some way.
So let me ask you something , i.e. i am standing solo afk in a relic town near to the porter , npcs , for no reason (maybe the cat) something drop on the keyboard and it start to spam a heal , a buff whatever, nobody have any advance out of this cast / spell , even i dont know i am doing this because i am afk , i wont get money , no rps ....absolutely nothing no advantage at all , u would call this macroing or afk farming or just a dump accident which happend and u cant do anything about it , because u dont know it ?

I dont want to go too deep into details on how we find macro/unattended gameplay users, but if your cat just runs once over your keyboard you are totally fine. But if your cat starts getting interested in playing daoc and luckily presses the correct button(s) over and over again, you might get into trouble.
Seriously guys, do you even believe in what you are writing here? A cat that is playing like a bot and/or a human being? Im playing daoc since beta and in all these years it never happened to me, that a cat, headset, dog, baby or the sleep was doing actions instead of me.

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 4:52 PM
Thats the way it is. If you`re playing a buff-class (as an example) and will get checked by a GM while you`re afk, you`ll get a ban because you could be a buffbot. Tank/DD may be a bit different. Staying there, doing nothing may be ok (as a non buff-class). Casting Heals/HoT/Buffs while afking is not ok.

If you have more than 1 account in your household (daughter, kids) make sure that you have 1 PC/Account. Don`t even think about to login 2 accounts on 1 Pc.
You could get banned for things that happened month ago if a bored GM checks the logs.

Kwall0311 wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 4:41 PM
You dont have to log your account. Go check on your kid, but dont have something/program casting a spell for you in the group. Its pretty clear/simple rule.

Not if you`re a shaman or other buffclass.
This is 100% not true. It doesnt matter what class you are and also we dont ban buffclasses for being afk. Please stop spreading false informations. We only ban if players violate any of our rules, be it macroing, sharing, multi accounts or whatever rule. But not because they are an afk buffclass.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 5:35 PM by gruenesschaf
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 3:28 PM
And you don`t think a 2 week ban is enough for the very first offense? So it has to be all chars and rr deleted? You could just perma ban the player instead, the chance that he/she is starting all over after month of playing is nearly zero. And another player gone....

The deletion happens because of two reasons,
1) deterrence, the risk of being caught vs reward should never be worth it for afk farming
2) a simple, reasonable assumption: someone who afk farms / macros is likely to have done it already but just wasn't caught until now.

The 14 day ban by the way is primarily to have time to appeal the ban, these appeals are reviewed and only at the end of those 14 days does the char deletion happen. However, for these cases usually some video has been recorded or the person was watched in action by 2 gms.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 5:58 PM by Crazyphader
" Im playing daoc since beta and in all these years it never happened to me, that a cat, headset, dog, baby or the sleep was doing actions instead of me. "

And that's why you assume that it can't happen to anyone else?

---

You punish people who have not committed targeted abuse just as harshly as people who engage in targeted abuse.



It does make a difference whether I abuse the situation for my own benefit or just stand around afk stupidly.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 6:00 PM by Stoertebecker
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 5:35 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 3:28 PM
And you don`t think a 2 week ban is enough for the very first offense? So it has to be all chars and rr deleted? You could just perma ban the player instead, the chance that he/she is starting all over after month of playing is nearly zero. And another player gone....

The deletion happens because of two reasons,
1) deterrence, the risk of being caught vs reward should never be worth it for afk farming
2) a simple, reasonable assumption: someone who afk farms / macros is likely to have done it already but just wasn't caught until now.

Ich schreib das mal auf deutsch, damit auch keine Mißverständnisse aufkommen. So gut ist mein Englisch dann doch nicht mehr.

Du willst mir jetzt allen ernstes erzählen ihr löscht von jemanden die Chars weil ihr davon ausgeht das er das bislang schon immer gemacht hat und nur nicht erwischt wurde?
Bei euren scharfen GM`s macht jemand das schon 18 Monate lang und wurde noch nicht erwischt? Ja nee, is klar.
Wohlgemerkt, bei Spielern die bislang noch nie negativ aufgefallen sind?

Dann könnt ihr den auch gleich ganz löschen, oder glaubt ihr so ein Spieler kommt nach solcher Willkür nochmal wieder?
Auf sowas basiert diese Regel? Da fehlen einem echt die Worte. Da werden Blue und Abydsos ja grün vor Neid.

@Uthred
Nu hör auf, ihr habt nem Gildenkollegen 1 Woche Bann verpasst und dem lütten Schamanen gleich komplett gelöscht weil er länger aufn Pott war als üblich. Begründung: Gleiche IP, Buffbot.
Und genau darum ging es, gleicher Haushalt, eine IP, Buffclass usw. Vllt bannt ihr jetzt Spieler aus diesem Grunde nicht mehr, ihr habt es aber defintiv getan.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 6:08 PM by Uthred
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 6:00 PM
@Uthred
Nu hör auf, ihr habt nem Gildenkollegen 1 Woche Bann verpasst und dem lütten Schamanen gleich komplett gelöscht weil er länger aufn Pott war als üblich. Begründung: Gleiche IP, Buffbot.
Und genau darum ging es, gleicher Haushalt, eine IP, Buffclass usw. Vllt bannt ihr jetzt Spieler aus diesem Grunde nicht mehr, ihr habt es aber defintiv getan.

Yes, ofc we ban players for this. Just read the rules. It is written there. But it has zero to do if it is a buffclass or not:

If you play from the same household (example: husband and wife, father and son etc.) you must play the same realm in RvR zones. If you try to play different realms in RvR zones, it will be considered cross-realming.If one of you has to AFK for more than 10 minutes, make sure to log out of the game as you might get tested for dual logging. If, after 10 minutes, the test fails, the ban will be applied.

This rule is in since day 1. You accepted the rules when creating the acc. Not our fault if you dont read/follow them.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 6:13 PM by Gambler
Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 5:24 PM
Gambler wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 4:45 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 3:18 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 2:34 PM
As already written.. 2 weeks and all chars gone.

There is nearly zero understanding that under some circumstances RL comes first. You have to log out, make sure that you`re logged out, and then you can go.

You only have to log out to go afk for longer periods of time if multiple accounts are playing at the same time from the same household, otherwise you can stand around afk until the auto kick as much as you want, just don't have your character do abilities while you're gone or prevent the auto kick in some way.
So let me ask you something , i.e. i am standing solo afk in a relic town near to the porter , npcs , for no reason (maybe the cat) something drop on the keyboard and it start to spam a heal , a buff whatever, nobody have any advance out of this cast / spell , even i dont know i am doing this because i am afk , i wont get money , no rps ....absolutely nothing no advantage at all , u would call this macroing or afk farming or just a dump accident which happend and u cant do anything about it , because u dont know it ?

I dont want to go too deep into details on how we find macro/unattended gameplay users, but if your cat just runs once over your keyboard you are totally fine. But if your cat starts getting interested in playing daoc and luckily presses the correct button(s) over and over again, you might get into trouble.
Seriously guys, do you even believe in what you are writing here? A cat that is playing like a bot and/or a human being? Im playing daoc since beta and in all these years it never happened to me, that a cat, headset, dog, baby or the sleep was doing actions instead of me.

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 4:52 PM
Thats the way it is. If you`re playing a buff-class (as an example) and will get checked by a GM while you`re afk, you`ll get a ban because you could be a buffbot. Tank/DD may be a bit different. Staying there, doing nothing may be ok (as a non buff-class). Casting Heals/HoT/Buffs while afking is not ok.

If you have more than 1 account in your household (daughter, kids) make sure that you have 1 PC/Account. Don`t even think about to login 2 accounts on 1 Pc.
You could get banned for things that happened month ago if a bored GM checks the logs.

Kwall0311 wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 4:41 PM
You dont have to log your account. Go check on your kid, but dont have something/program casting a spell for you in the group. Its pretty clear/simple rule.

Not if you`re a shaman or other buffclass.
This is 100% not true. It doesnt matter what class you are and also we dont ban buffclasses for being afk. Please stop spreading false informations. We only ban if players violate any of our rules, be it macroing, sharing, multi accounts or whatever rule. But not because they are an afk buffclass.
I guess u misunderstood my question , IF for some inexplicable reason something felt on your keyboard and will stuck there on the button for yr i.e. grpheal and u spam groupheal and grpheal ... until u are oom , after maybe 30 seconds u get some mana back and you start to make the grpheal again because the thing will still stuck on your keyboard , one time grpheal and you are oom again ans so on .... you are not in group , u are in relikt twon , there are no monsters u kill , u dont recieve any money or rps , JUST a simple dump coincidence happens with no intention to do anything against any rule ore guidline, just afk
Mon 10 Aug 2020 6:13 PM by Crazyphader
You want to tell me all serious now you delete someone's characters because you assume that he has always done that and just wasn't caught?
In your hot GM's, someone has been doing this for 18 months and hasn't been caught yet? Yeah, right.
Mind you, with players who have never before been noticed negatively?

Then you can delete it completely, or do you think such a player will come back again after such arbitrariness?
Is that what this rule is based on? Words are really lacking. Blue and Abydsos are green with envy.

So this is how you deal with your loyal community
Mon 10 Aug 2020 6:57 PM by Bradekes
Kwall0311 wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 4:02 PM
Why? Whats so hard about not having something other than yourself actively casting/using a skill .

While nothing too crazy has happened yet, I do know if you have animals or small children things can happen if you afk to use the restroom or whatever.

My 2year old loves climbing on my chair and holding the jump button, she might also love making my character cast spells or something else when she figures out how.

Cats also loves to lay on the keyboard.

Just saying things can happen and no matter how unlikely they are to happen like maybe my child sets one of her toys on my keyboard,which does happen, I would hope all my char don't get deleted because of some unlucky happening.

I know they will, however, because this team is ruthless and heartless when it comes to family situations and real life issues. They think everyone should be like robots when it comes to their rules... too much time coding does this to a person we are all 0's and 1's to the staff lol.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 7:04 PM by gruenesschaf
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 6:57 PM
While nothing too crazy has happened yet, I do know if you have animals or small children things can happen if you afk to use the restroom or whatever.

My 2year old loves climbing on my chair and holding the jump button, she might also love making my character cast spells or something else when she figures out how.

Cats also loves to lay on the keyboard.

Just saying things can happen and no matter how unlikely they are to happen like maybe my child sets one of her toys on my keyboard,which does happen, I would hope all my char don't get deleted because of some unlucky happening.

I know they will, however, because this team is ruthless and heartless when it comes to family situations and real life issues. They think everyone should be like robots when it comes to their rules... too much time coding does this to a person we are all 0's and 1's to the staff lol.

Exactly, if you even for a second do an action while not personally at the keyboard alarm bells ring and you will instantly be sorrounded by 100 gms, if you then don't reply within 753ms to their afk check you will instantly be banned.
We most certainly don't wait a reasonable amount of time before even attempting an afk check of which there absolutely won't be multiple with plenty of time to respond.

I really would like to see the child or cat that would manage to even get the account flagged for manual review in the first place.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 7:09 PM by Uthred
Gambler wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 6:13 PM
I guess u misunderstood my question , IF for some inexplicable reason something felt on your keyboard and will stuck there on the button for yr i.e. grpheal and u spam groupheal and grpheal ... until u are oom , after maybe 30 seconds u get some mana back and you start to make the grpheal again because the thing will still stuck on your keyboard , one time grpheal and you are oom again ans so on .... you are not in group , u are in relikt twon , there are no monsters u kill , u dont recieve any money or rps , JUST a simple dump coincidence happens with no intention to do anything against any rule ore guidline, just afk

I did understand that question and I did answer it in my first post.

Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 3:13 PM
....
So no macroing, scripting, whatever you want to call it
and also
- no coin(s) in the keyboard
- no falling asleep at the keyboard and pressing one button during the sleep coincidentally
- no headset that dropped unintentionally on the keyboard
- no "overlooking" of a gamemaster who is testing you while you continue to attack mobs
- last but not least no dogs or babies that press the same key for hours again and again while the owner of the account is at work.

....

But to make it pretty clear: in the case you described above you would have gotten the 14 day ban & deletion.
Or in other words. If you get tested and the test fails, the ban and the deletion will apply.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 7:14 PM by Stoertebecker
Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 6:08 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 6:00 PM
@Uthred
Nu hör auf, ihr habt nem Gildenkollegen 1 Woche Bann verpasst und dem lütten Schamanen gleich komplett gelöscht weil er länger aufn Pott war als üblich. Begründung: Gleiche IP, Buffbot.
Und genau darum ging es, gleicher Haushalt, eine IP, Buffclass usw. Vllt bannt ihr jetzt Spieler aus diesem Grunde nicht mehr, ihr habt es aber defintiv getan.

Yes, ofc we ban players for this. Just read the rules. It is written there. But it has zero to do if it is a buffclass or not:

If you play from the same household (example: husband and wife, father and son etc.) you must play the same realm in RvR zones. If you try to play different realms in RvR zones, it will be considered cross-realming.If one of you has to AFK for more than 10 minutes, make sure to log out of the game as you might get tested for dual logging. If, after 10 minutes, the test fails, the ban will be applied.

This rule is in since day 1. You accepted the rules when creating the acc. Not our fault if you dont read/follow them.

I have no probs with the rules (never got in touch with a GM), except this one ***2) a simple, reasonable assumption: someone who afk farms / macros is likely to have done it already but just wasn't caught until now.
***
That is simply something that would never happen on Phoenix, not with someone who has several lvl 50 and a char with a rr10+, someone who spent a lot of time (some 100 hours) playing here and never got checked for something.

But we should stop here, that leads to nothing.

And congratz to 43 banned accounts just today, und the day isn`t over.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 7:21 PM by Crazyphader
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 7:14 PM
Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 6:08 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 6:00 PM
@Uthred
Nu hör auf, ihr habt nem Gildenkollegen 1 Woche Bann verpasst und dem lütten Schamanen gleich komplett gelöscht weil er länger aufn Pott war als üblich. Begründung: Gleiche IP, Buffbot.
Und genau darum ging es, gleicher Haushalt, eine IP, Buffclass usw. Vllt bannt ihr jetzt Spieler aus diesem Grunde nicht mehr, ihr habt es aber defintiv getan.

Yes, ofc we ban players for this. Just read the rules. It is written there. But it has zero to do if it is a buffclass or not:

If you play from the same household (example: husband and wife, father and son etc.) you must play the same realm in RvR zones. If you try to play different realms in RvR zones, it will be considered cross-realming.If one of you has to AFK for more than 10 minutes, make sure to log out of the game as you might get tested for dual logging. If, after 10 minutes, the test fails, the ban will be applied.

This rule is in since day 1. You accepted the rules when creating the acc. Not our fault if you dont read/follow them.

I have no probs with the rules (never got in touch with a GM), except this one ***2) a simple, reasonable assumption: someone who afk farms / macros is likely to have done it already but just wasn't caught until now.
***
That is simply something that would never happen on Phoenix, not with someone who has several lvl 50 and a char with a rr10+, someone who spent a lot of time (some 100 hours) playing here and never got checked for something.

But we should stop here, that leads to nothing.

This is absolutely sick.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 7:38 PM by Bradekes
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 7:04 PM
I really would like to see the child or cat that would manage to even get the account flagged for manual review in the first place.

I doubt it will happen or maybe could? I think a lot of people that read these forums are just scared of your servers punishments because most people aren't intentionally going to break your rules.

Sure it's people fault for not reading your rules and getting in trouble but it's also your teams fault for being so strict. I understand why you are strict and I do my best to follow or ask about your rules because I enjoy playing here.

I really think it's the people with families that have to fear the rules because only so much is controllable for one person. Like my sister has 3 kids which all have played DAoC and that's actually how she met her husband. I just fear one day I'll not get to play on this server with her anymore because one of my nieces breaks one of the rules on accident.

Just my two-cents sometimes it's better to ask questions then shoot. Maybe you can relate to your players instead of throwing books at them and make them feel like people instead of suspected criminals.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 7:54 PM by fledermaus68
Hallo
ich schreibe auch mal auf Deutsch da der übersetzer nicht alles so übersetzt glaube ich.....


Also ich würde verstehen, wenn sie gesagt hätten 14 ban für den Fehler mit dem Headset.
Aber gleich alle Chars zu löschen und wir reden hier von
RR 10L1
RR 9L4
RR 7L0
RR 6L4
RR 5,4
RR 5L0
RR5L3
Und noch 6 x 50ziger
9 Chars alle mit Temp
Ich rede nicht mal von der Zeit wo man dazu gebraucht hat, weil das Interessiert ja keinen GM ist ja normal lol.
Für was wo man nicht mit Absicht gemacht hat ist absolut nicht nachvollziehbar?
Ich kann es immer noch nicht glauben das ich nach mehr als 20 Jahren DAOC jetzt aufhören muss Hammer für sowas.
Ich wünsch keinem GM das er mal ein Fehler macht ( Achso die machen ja keine Fehler Sorry ) und gleich seinen heißgeliebten Job sofort verliert.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So I would understand if they said 14 ban for the error with the headset.
But delete all the characters right away and we're talking about
RR 10L1
RR 9L4
RR 7L0
RR 6L4
RR 5.4
RR 5L0
RR5L3
And another 6 x 50s
9 characters all with temp
I'm not even talking about the time it took to do it, because that isn't interested in GM is normal lol.
For what was not done on purpose is absolutely incomprehensible?
I still can't believe that after more than 20 years of DAOC I have to quit. Awesome for something like that.
I don't wish any GM that he ever makes a mistake (oh, they don't make mistakes, sorry) and immediately loses his beloved job.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 7:56 PM by Gambler
Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 7:09 PM
Gambler wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 6:13 PM
I guess u misunderstood my question , IF for some inexplicable reason something felt on your keyboard and will stuck there on the button for yr i.e. grpheal and u spam groupheal and grpheal ... until u are oom , after maybe 30 seconds u get some mana back and you start to make the grpheal again because the thing will still stuck on your keyboard , one time grpheal and you are oom again ans so on .... you are not in group , u are in relikt twon , there are no monsters u kill , u dont recieve any money or rps , JUST a simple dump coincidence happens with no intention to do anything against any rule ore guidline, just afk

I did understand that question and I did answer it in my first post.

Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 3:13 PM
....
So no macroing, scripting, whatever you want to call it
and also
- no coin(s) in the keyboard
- no falling asleep at the keyboard and pressing one button during the sleep coincidentally
- no headset that dropped unintentionally on the keyboard
- no "overlooking" of a gamemaster who is testing you while you continue to attack mobs
- last but not least no dogs or babies that press the same key for hours again and again while the owner of the account is at work.

....
NO u did not answer it , u were just answering the question u liked to answer it in your way , i ask u again , what will happen to my account if i stay out of any group out of any monsters to kill , just afk in middle of a relic town spam a grp heal unless i have mana and have mana again after maybe 30seconds and will make one grp heal again , and after 30 seconds i got mana again and will make another grp heal again still not on group still at the same place , and this might be for hours because i think my char been logged out already BUT there is something laying on the keyboard on this button who makes me spam that one spell , what will happen to my account ? i am macroing ? my only fault would be that i didnt logged out , because of thinking it will log out by itself after a period of time.
And dont tell other people liar or just looking for some excuses , yeah maybe u play since BETA and ? me too , so what ? and if some weird circumstances didnt appeared in yr live just be happy , some other people might be not that lucky and it happened , a cat jump on the desk drop the coffe cup somewhere , the baby climb up the chair and stick the ruler into the keyboard , something from a board just dropped down because there was a small earthquake , ..... all this kind of things could happen nd this are not some excuses this is calles REAL LIFE !!!!

But to make it pretty clear: in the case you described above you would have gotten the 14 day ban & deletion.
Or in other words. If you get tested and the test fails, the ban and the deletion will apply.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 8:07 PM by Uthred
Gambler wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 7:56 PM
Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 7:09 PM
Gambler wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 6:13 PM
I guess u misunderstood my question , IF for some inexplicable reason something felt on your keyboard and will stuck there on the button for yr i.e. grpheal and u spam groupheal and grpheal ... until u are oom , after maybe 30 seconds u get some mana back and you start to make the grpheal again because the thing will still stuck on your keyboard , one time grpheal and you are oom again ans so on .... you are not in group , u are in relikt twon , there are no monsters u kill , u dont recieve any money or rps , JUST a simple dump coincidence happens with no intention to do anything against any rule ore guidline, just afk

I did understand that question and I did answer it in my first post.

Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 3:13 PM
....
So no macroing, scripting, whatever you want to call it
and also
- no coin(s) in the keyboard
- no falling asleep at the keyboard and pressing one button during the sleep coincidentally
- no headset that dropped unintentionally on the keyboard
- no "overlooking" of a gamemaster who is testing you while you continue to attack mobs
- last but not least no dogs or babies that press the same key for hours again and again while the owner of the account is at work.

....
NO u did not answer it , u were just answering the question u liked to answer it in your way , i ask u again , what will happen to my account if i stay out of any group out of any monsters to kill , just afk in middle of a relic town spam a grp heal unless i have mana and have mana again after maybe 30seconds and will make one grp heal again , and after 30 seconds i got mana again and will make another grp heal again still not on group still at the same place , and this might be for hours because i think my char been logged out already BUT there is something laying on the keyboard on this button who makes me spam that one spell , what will happen to my account ? i am macroing ? my only fault would be that i didnt logged out , because of thinking it will log out by itself after a period of time.
And dont tell other people liar or just looking for some excuses , yeah maybe u play since BETA and ? me too , so what ? and if some weird circumstances didnt appeared in yr live just be happy , some other people might be not that lucky and it happened , a cat jump on the desk drop the coffe cup somewhere , the baby climb up the chair and stick the ruler into the keyboard , something from a board just dropped down because there was a small earthquake , ..... all this kind of things could happen nd this are not some excuses this is calles REAL LIFE !!!!

But to make it pretty clear: in the case you described above you would have gotten the 14 day ban & deletion.
Or in other words. If you get tested and the test fails, the ban and the deletion will apply.
Just read what i posted and you quoted (the part in bold letters)
Mon 10 Aug 2020 8:17 PM by Crazyphader
Why do you Banned for AFK Farming only 3 Days ??

that represents targeted abuse

You measure with two different measures

----

Imagine you are driving a car, 40 km / h in a 30 km / h zone, you are flashed and stopped. Rags away, immediately confiscated on the spot.
When asked about the WHY you are told * Well, we caught you 10km above the permitted speed limit *, we assume that you always drive too fast, but have never been caught. You have 14 days to file an objection. During this time, your case will be reviewed by a jury (composed entirely of police officers and judges). If they reach a unanimous decision, we will confiscate all cars registered in their name, but they will get their driving license again after 5 years. Of course, only after passing MTU.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 8:43 PM by Uthred
Going to quote myself from an older topic where the difference between macroing and afk farming was discussed.

Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Jan 2020 9:46 PM
Once again.

Being afk and letting your pet kill stuff for you = not allowed.
1st offense = warning
2nd offense = time ban
3rd offense = you are in trouble

Being afk and scripting single or multiple actions (and yes, putting a coin/headset/dog/bird/cat/baby/whatever into your keyboard is also a no no) = not allowed
1st offense: Deletion of all characters and 2-weeks ban
2nd offense: permaban of Player

It is no problem to be afk when you are grped. It is also no problem to suicide to a keep and then wait for the task tick and being afk while waiting. Dont mix things up here. This rule is so easy to understand and im not going to repeat myself over and over again.

Just a little hint: If you need to be afk, you can easily do that without having your pet stand inside the mob respawn. Just move some locs away and you can afk all day long without getting into any troubles at all.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 8:56 PM by protege
So you can't AFK with autorun on? Autorun is considered a macro? Lol

Some poster before said he got banned for that....?
Mon 10 Aug 2020 9:03 PM by gruenesschaf
protege wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 8:56 PM
So you can't AFK with autorun on? Autorun is considered a macro? Lol

Some poster before said he got banned for that....?

You can autorun afk until you're auto kicked as long as your autorun doesn't make your character spin in circles and prevent the auto kick.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 9:03 PM by Crazyphader
Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 8:43 PM
Going to quote myself from an older topic where the difference between macroing and afk farming was discussed.

Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Jan 2020 9:46 PM
Once again.

Being afk and letting your pet kill stuff for you = not allowed.
1st offense = warning
2nd offense = time ban
3rd offense = you are in trouble

Being afk and scripting single or multiple actions (and yes, putting a coin/headset/dog/bird/cat/baby/whatever into your keyboard is also a no no) = not allowed
1st offense: Deletion of all characters and 2-weeks ban
2nd offense: permaban of Player

It is no problem to be afk when you are grped. It is also no problem to suicide to a keep and then wait for the task tick and being afk while waiting. Dont mix things up here. This rule is so easy to understand and im not going to repeat myself over and over again.

Just a little hint: If you need to be afk, you can easily do that without having your pet stand inside the mob respawn. Just move some locs away and you can afk all day long without getting into any troubles at all.



Then please explain what the point is to punish non-targeted abuse much harder than targeted abuse, which gives you a game progress or a similar advantage.

Someone who has not taken advantage of the situation is punished much more severely.



Shouldn't a situation be judged based on determination level and a check for targeted abuse or not? and what benefit I got from it...
Mon 10 Aug 2020 9:06 PM by protege
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 9:03 PM
protege wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 8:56 PM
So you can't AFK with autorun on? Autorun is considered a macro? Lol

Some poster before said he got banned for that....?

You can autorun afk until you're auto kicked as long as your autorun doesn't make your character spin in circles and prevent the auto kick.

That makes sense. Thank you for the clarification.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 9:35 PM by Gambler
Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 8:43 PM
Going to quote myself from an older topic where the difference between macroing and afk farming was discussed.

Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Jan 2020 9:46 PM
Once again.

Being afk and letting your pet kill stuff for you = not allowed.
1st offense = warning
2nd offense = time ban
3rd offense = you are in trouble

Being afk and scripting single or multiple actions (and yes, putting a coin/headset/dog/bird/cat/baby/whatever into your keyboard is also a no no) = not allowed
1st offense: Deletion of all characters and 2-weeks ban
2nd offense: permaban of Player

It is no problem to be afk when you are grped. It is also no problem to suicide to a keep and then wait for the task tick and being afk while waiting. Dont mix things up here. This rule is so easy to understand and im not going to repeat myself over and over again.

Just a little hint: If you need to be afk, you can easily do that without having your pet stand inside the mob respawn. Just move some locs away and you can afk all day long without getting into any troubles at all.
so if someone obviously farm items , drops ,gold and xp while afk will get a warning and someone who is a afk-solo-victim of weird circumstances who spam every 30 seconds a grp heal (which affects no one) will get banned and chars deleted , ahhh now i got it , yeah make sense at all , thx for clarification
Mon 10 Aug 2020 10:14 PM by gruenesschaf
Gambler wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 9:35 PM
so if someone obviously farm items , drops ,gold and xp while afk will get a warning and someone who is a afk-solo-victim of weird circumstances who spam every 30 seconds a grp heal (which affects no one) will get banned and chars deleted , ahhh now i got it , yeah make sense at all , thx for clarification

One is done with ingame functionality only where it being forbidden is likely even unexpected hence just a warning, the other needs something external like a perfectly placed headset that just happens to be stuck on the group heal button.
Mon 10 Aug 2020 10:21 PM by fledermaus68
Ich sende nochmal Deutsch und Englisch

Echt toll erst wird gesagt es gibt ein Beweis Video, dann will man es sehen und nach dem 3 nachfragen bekommt man gesagt wir haben das im Team besprochen also kein Video.
Also nur willkürliches handeln klasse so wünscht man sich eine Führung Top.
Wenn es keiner Schaft das Game kaputt zu machen sie und das Team schaffen es.
Ihr seid auf dem besten Weg dazu.
Aber ihr seid euch ja sicher das diese nicht passieren kann bin mal gespannt.
Und ich hoffe das es dann den einen oder anderen richtig hart trifft nur das ihr das auch mal zu spüren bekommt.


______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Really great first they say there is a proof video, then you want to see it and after asking 3 you get said we discussed it in the team so no video.
So just acting arbitrarily great so you want a leadership top.
If no one can break the game, you and the team can do it.
You are well on the way to that.
But you are sure that this cannot happen, I'm curious.
And I hope that it hits one or the other really hard, only that you
Mon 10 Aug 2020 11:37 PM by Stoertebecker
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 10:14 PM
Gambler wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 9:35 PM
so if someone obviously farm items , drops ,gold and xp while afk will get a warning and someone who is a afk-solo-victim of weird circumstances who spam every 30 seconds a grp heal (which affects no one) will get banned and chars deleted , ahhh now i got it , yeah make sense at all , thx for clarification

One is done with ingame functionality only where it being forbidden is likely even unexpected hence just a warning, the other needs something external like a perfectly placed headset that just happens to be stuck on the group heal button.

It don`t need to be so perfectly placed as you may think, qbind makes it possible to bind something wherever you want, macro`d to the left/right mousebutton and voila.
If i throw my headset on the keyboard (weight 730g) it triggers a key, no question with the touch dynamics today. The cherry keyboards where you need a hammer are from the 90th.

Btw, maybe someone has to check the rules on the mainpage. There are punishments listed for nearly all kind of stuff, except client modifications like radar/speedhack etc.
That should be your main objective for bans, not if someone buffed or healed the air in Midgards relic town.
You modified a lot of things since jan. 2019, you reduced the realm-switch-timer so that it is possible to switch nearly instant from 1 realm to another, you switched the poi-system several times etcetc, what you didn`t adjust are the rules. Maybe it`s time to overwork the rules to a bit more moderate version?

Uthgard with only 100 players at primetime wasn`t fun, DAoC needs more players for a good gaming experience. Phoenix is still far from those numbers, but 44 acounts were banned only yesterday. Strange priorities....is it really important if someone used a multiacc 2-3 month ago? (As long as it isn`t Crossrealming) Hard to believe that it happened all yesterday and except 1 case all from the same GM.
Tue 11 Aug 2020 12:42 AM by thethirdclyde
Long time reader first time poster here. I have got to say the raw emotion over in-town group healing while not in a group is just phenomenal here. Did a loved one get banned or are we arguing for the sake of arguing?

Rules are rules, the folks here enforce them as they see fit and have run a pretty tidy server for well over a year. Call me a pragmatist, but if I had real concern over being banned for an inadvertent headphone throw due to an emergency I’d install a surge protector. Every time I had to rescue my kiddo from a burning dumpster fire all I’d have to do is click that orange button and whamo! No ban!

That said I would like to see this conversation continue. I know a few experts, if everyone can chip in I’ll have my guy throw together a statistical analysis of the odds of my noise canceling headphones causing my toon to play itself. That’ll show them!

In all seriousness though, thank you. I had a long Monday at the office and this thread honestly brought me joy. I hope everyone got to see the humor in this all.

To the devs, continue wield thy ban hammer well! I’ve faith in your judgment! You are appreciated.
Tue 11 Aug 2020 12:47 AM by Thoralf1
Its not to argue its to get the player back.
Tue 11 Aug 2020 1:04 AM by gruenesschaf
fledermaus68 wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 10:21 PM
Ich sende nochmal Deutsch und Englisch

Echt toll erst wird gesagt es gibt ein Beweis Video, dann will man es sehen und nach dem 3 nachfragen bekommt man gesagt wir haben das im Team besprochen also kein Video.
Also nur willkürliches handeln klasse so wünscht man sich eine Führung Top.
Wenn es keiner Schaft das Game kaputt zu machen sie und das Team schaffen es.
Ihr seid auf dem besten Weg dazu.
Aber ihr seid euch ja sicher das diese nicht passieren kann bin mal gespannt.
Und ich hoffe das es dann den einen oder anderen richtig hart trifft nur das ihr das auch mal zu spüren bekommt.


______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Really great first they say there is a proof video, then you want to see it and after asking 3 you get said we discussed it in the team so no video.
So just acting arbitrarily great so you want a leadership top.
If no one can break the game, you and the team can do it.
You are well on the way to that.
But you are sure that this cannot happen, I'm curious.
And I hope that it hits one or the other really hard, only that you

And with that the case is closed. If you now really want to argue that nothing happened and you were just banned arbitrarily there really is no point whatsoever.

https://i.imgur.com/6cqskvE.png
Tue 11 Aug 2020 3:08 AM by Missmarti
Hier auch auf Deutsch und Englisch!

Wir sind hier bei dem Fall des Gruppenheal spammenden Schamis der in Godrborg stand. Man muss nicht wirklich der Hellste sein um zu erkennen, dass es sich hier nicht um einen Macrouser handelt. Wenn es nicht so dumm wäre, würde ich glatt drüber lachen...
Liebe GM`s, der Schamane stand im Relidorf, solo und spammte seinen Heal, es brachte ihm rein gar nichts, außer das er damit rechnen musste, dass ihn irgendein gelangweilter Typ meldet.. Er bekommt dafür keine RP´s, kein Gold, nichts, ja ihr habt Recht, dass kann nur ein Macrouser sein...
Ihr habt eure Regeln, die könnt ihr auch gerne haben, die sollt ihr auch haben, das schließt dennoch nicht aus, dass ihr auch mal nachdenken könnt, bevor ihr wegen nichts Leute bannt.
Der Link von gruenesschaf ist nichtssagend, okay er wurde mehrmals angesendet, aber darum geht es nicht, dass war sowieso allen bewusst. Niemand hat behauptet das er nicht afk war.
Es geht einfach um das Strafmaß, ein BD der beabsichtigt afk mit seinen Pets farmt bekommt einen 3 Tage Bann, hat davor aber evtl. über Wochen / Monate Gold und Items gefarmt, die ihm genug Platins brachten um mehrere Chars auszustatten. Durch seine Aktionen hat er sich klar einen unübersehbaren Vorteil verschafft.

Ein Bann samt löschen aller Charaktere sollte nur dann erfolgen, wenn ihr euch auch sicher sein könnt, dass gegen eure Regeln verstoßen wurde. Ein Supporter der in einer Gruppe ist, in einem Deffkeep steht und dauerhaft Gruppenheal spammt, kann gerne gebannt werden. Er verschafft sich dadurch Vorteile, in dem er afk RP`s und Gold bekommt. Ein Supporter der solo in Godrborg steht und seinen Heal spammt hat nichts davon, außer das er einen ungerechtfertigten Bann bekommt...

Ansonsten kann ich mich nur Stoertebecker anschließen, der alles wichtige auf den Punkt gebracht hat.
Zu den Clowns hier, die sich drüber lustig machen, weil sie es halt einfach nicht verstehen, muss man nicht viel sagen... Karma reicht für euch!

Da mein RL-Übersetzer nun schon schläft, schmeiß ich meinen Text einfach mal in den Google-Translator... Ich möchte ja nicht gegen die Forum-Regeln verstoßen...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Since my RL translator is already sleeping, I'll just throw my text into the Google Translator ... I don't want to break the forum rules ...

We are here on the case of the group heal spamming Shami who stood in Godrborg. You don't really have to be the brightest to see that this is not a macro user. If it weren't so stupid, I would laugh at it ...
Dear GM`s, the shaman was standing in Relidorf, solo and spamming his heal, it didn’t help him, except that he had to expect that some bored guy would report him. He doesn’t get any RP’s, no gold, nothing, yes you are right, that can only be a macro user ...
You have your rules, you are welcome to have them, you should also have them, but that does not preclude you from being able to think about it before you ban people for nothing.
The link from gruenesschaf is meaningless, okay, it was sent several times, but that's not the point, everyone was aware of that anyway. Nobody said he wasn't afk.
It's simply about the penalty, a BD who intends to farm afk with his pets gets a 3 days ban, but may have farmed gold and items for weeks / months that brought him enough platinum to equip several characters. Through his actions he has clearly gained an unmistakable advantage.

A ban and deletion of all characters should only take place if you can be sure that your rules have been violated. A supporter who is in a group, in a deffkeep and permanently spamming group heal, can be banned. He gains advantages by getting afk RP's and gold. A supporter standing solo in Godrborg and spamming his heal has nothing of it, except that he gets an unjustified ban ...

Otherwise I can only join Stoertebecker, who got to the heart of everything that was important.
You don't have to say much about the clowns here who make fun of it because they just don't understand ... Karma is enough for you!
Tue 11 Aug 2020 6:43 AM by tommccartney
If you can’t do the time don’t commit the crime
Tue 11 Aug 2020 7:37 AM by Gambler
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 1:04 AM
fledermaus68 wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 10:21 PM
Ich sende nochmal Deutsch und Englisch

Echt toll erst wird gesagt es gibt ein Beweis Video, dann will man es sehen und nach dem 3 nachfragen bekommt man gesagt wir haben das im Team besprochen also kein Video.
Also nur willkürliches handeln klasse so wünscht man sich eine Führung Top.
Wenn es keiner Schaft das Game kaputt zu machen sie und das Team schaffen es.
Ihr seid auf dem besten Weg dazu.
Aber ihr seid euch ja sicher das diese nicht passieren kann bin mal gespannt.
Und ich hoffe das es dann den einen oder anderen richtig hart trifft nur das ihr das auch mal zu spüren bekommt.


______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Really great first they say there is a proof video, then you want to see it and after asking 3 you get said we discussed it in the team so no video.
So just acting arbitrarily great so you want a leadership top.
If no one can break the game, you and the team can do it.
You are well on the way to that.
But you are sure that this cannot happen, I'm curious.
And I hope that it hits one or the other really hard, only that you

And with that the case is closed. If you now really want to argue that nothing happened and you were just banned arbitrarily there really is no point whatsoever.

https://i.imgur.com/6cqskvE.png
the image should prove what exactly ?
And everyone should be aware and clear that nobody would stay in a relic town and do something senseless for hours if it not a stupid circumstances happened , even if a headset drop on the keyboard and hit this ONE button and stuck there , yes it could happen !!! yeah the chance that it might hit this ONE button is extremly small BUT it could happen ..... the chance to win the lottery in Germany is 1 : 140.000.000 and believe it or not almost every week one or more people get it .....
GUYS u do a great work here on Phoenix and we appreciate it , REALLY !!!
BUT just think about it ..... Errors must be examined , learned and discarded , not inhabited and stored !!!
and bite the bullet .....be humans ....
Tue 11 Aug 2020 7:44 AM by Noashakra
I love the argument of "he has 10+ toons, high rr and templated, nobody in the right mind would risk that with macros"!
Ask Mcnasty...
Tue 11 Aug 2020 7:50 AM by Uthred
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 11:37 PM
Btw, maybe someone has to check the rules on the mainpage. There are punishments listed for nearly all kind of stuff, except client modifications like radar/speedhack etc.
That should be your main objective for bans, not if someone buffed or healed the air in Midgards relic town.
You modified a lot of things since jan. 2019, you reduced the realm-switch-timer so that it is possible to switch nearly instant from 1 realm to another, you switched the poi-system several times etcetc, what you didn`t adjust are the rules. Maybe it`s time to overwork the rules to a bit more moderate version?

From the rules on the main site ->https://playphoenix.online/rules

4. Client Modifications
You may not modify any part of the Dark Age of Camelot client. This includes but is not limited to:
Any hardware or third-party software, altering movement speed of your character, revealing positions of enemy players (as Radar), Jump-Hacks, Client mods that change weather pattern, fog, terrain, or object positions.

The following violations cannot be pleaded: Any form of Radar, Speed-and Jump Hack (# 4.0)

People that are caught with any kind of client modification will get a perma ban and also arent allowed for probation.

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 11:37 PM
Uthgard with only 100 players at primetime wasn`t fun, DAoC needs more players for a good gaming experience. Phoenix is still far from those numbers, but 44 acounts were banned only yesterday. Strange priorities....is it really important if someone used a multiacc 2-3 month ago? (As long as it isn`t Crossrealming) Hard to believe that it happened all yesterday and except 1 case all from the same GM.

So what is your suggetion? Each GM is only allowed to ban max 10 accs per day? Again you show some really strange point of view. The lower the numbers the more rule violations we should ignore or accept or overlook? Like I said somewhere in this thread before: It is not the staffs fault, if players dont read/follow the rules.
Tue 11 Aug 2020 8:10 AM by Angi2019
Tag zusammen
Ich bin nicht so gut in Englisch, daher hier auf Deutsch und dann per Google Übersetzer
Ich will das nun nicht tot diskutieren, ich will es nur verstehen bzw. in Deutsch lesen!

Wenn ich in der Housing Zone in meinem Haus per /craftqueue etwas herstelle oder mein Char in Jordheim steht und unser Kater Curry legt sich mal wieder auf meine Tastatur und mein Char hüpft immer wieder …. dann muss ich den Bildschirm beobachten und auf Anfragen reagieren – ich kann nicht afk gehen / oder ALT+TAB wegen HomeOffice – egal wo sich meine Spielfigur befindet - weil ich sonst gebannt werden und alle Chars werden gelöscht!

Das ist Serverregel der Eigentümer / Betreiber und daran habe ich mich zu halten oder ich kann gleich hier von dieser Welt weg bleiben!

Ist das so richtig?



Day together
I'm not that good at English, so here in German and then via Google Translate
I don't want to discuss it dead now, I just want to understand it or read it in German!

When I make something in the Housing Zone in my house using / craftqueue or my Char is in Jordheim and our cat Curry lies down on my keyboard again and my Char keeps jumping ... then I have to watch the screen and react to requests - I cannot go afk / or ALT + TAB because of home office - no matter where my character is - because otherwise I will be banned and all characters will be deleted!

This is the server rule of the owner / operator and I have to adhere to it or I can stay away from this world right away!

Is it correct that way?
Tue 11 Aug 2020 8:20 AM by Uthred
Angi2019 wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 8:10 AM
Is it correct that way?
JEIN.
Craftqueue is a QoL feature to have people not sit and watch the screen all the time. So of course you can start a craftqueue and do something else in the meanwhile.

If it comes to the cat and the cat taking over the control of your toon: if you need to afk for more than 5 min i would recommend to log out or to have an eye on the screen. If you get tested and you (or the cat) fails the test, the ban will apply.
Tue 11 Aug 2020 8:24 AM by Boronia
Dear Uthred

Auch ich muss leider in Deutsch schreiben da mein Englisch leider nicht ausreicht

Was wir wollen ist nicht das Ihr den Bann Zurückzieht . Was wir wollten ist ein bisschen Menschlichkeit !!!
Wie ihr das Rechtfertigen wollt das alle Chars gelöscht werden , das könnt ihr nicht und warum ? weil es nichts zu Rechtfertigen gibt.
Ihr werdet niemals einen Fehler zugeben , da Ihr Angst habt wenn ihr einmal Schwäche zeigt das alles zusammen bricht.
Ihr habt eure Regeln . Und alle haben Sie Akzeptiert , aber wenn Ihr solche harten Maßnahmen durchgreift , SOLLTET ihr euch zu 100% sicher sein das es auch der Regel Verstoss war der dieses Handeln gerechtfertigt. Im Deutschen Recht heißt es im Zweifelsfall für den Angeklagten. Aber Götter zweifeln anscheinend nicht.

Für euch sind wir alle nur Nummern die ihr löschen könnt wie Ihr wollt . Aber hinter jedem Namen steht eine Person . Hinter der Person eine Gemeinschafft / Familie .
Und Ihr habt ohne zu zögern das Herz und die Seele unserer Gilde rausgerissen . Und wegen was? Einem Headset auf der Tastatur .
Ich bin Familien Vater mit Haustieren . Und es kommt Täglich vor das meine Kids auf der Tastatur rumhämmern . Ihr habt das Task System eingeführt!
Es ist an sich gut, aber wenn man 30 min dafür was getan hat und muss für paar RPs dann 15 min warten , Und hat einen Notfall das man weg muss .
Das tut mir leid DIESE Entscheidung , kann und wollen Wir nicht akzeptieren! Ihr zwingt uns sogar dazu Afk irgendwo rum zu stehen .
Langsam glaub ich sogar das man hier nicht mit Menschen diskutiert. Wenn man manche Antworten so liest (vielleicht liegts am Google Übersetzter)
kann man Seinen Kopf nur auf die Tischplatte knallen lassen.

Für Odin
Für Midgard
Für die Alliance
Für Weltenbrand
FÜR ALUSSIA

Mit freundlichen Grüssen
Lianah
(keine Haftung für Rechtschreibfehler

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Dear Uthred

Unfortunately, I also have to write in German because my English is unfortunately insufficient

What we want is not that you pull the Ban back. What we wanted is a little humanity !!!
How do you want to justify that all characters are deleted, you cannot and why? because there is nothing to justify.
You will never admit a mistake because you are afraid that once you show weakness it will all collapse.
You have your rules. And they all accepted, but if you take such tough measures, you SHOULD be 100% sure that it was the rule violation that justified this action. In German law it says in case of doubt for the accused. But gods don't seem to doubt.

For you we are all just numbers that you can delete as you want. But behind every name there is a person. Behind the person a community / family.
And you tore out the heart and soul of our guild without hesitation. And because of what? A headset on the keyboard.
I am a family father with pets. And it happens every day that my kids hammer around on the keyboard. You introduced the task system!
It's good in itself, but if you've done something for 30 minutes and then have to wait 15 minutes for a few RPs, and you have an emergency that you have to go.
I'm sorry THIS decision, We cannot and will not accept it! You even force us to stand around Afk somewhere.
I'm starting to think that you don't even discuss it with people here. If you read some of the answers like this (maybe it's the Google translator)
you can just bang your head on the table top.

For Odin
For Midgard
For the Alliance
For world fire
FOR ALUSSIA

Sincerely yours
Lianah
Tue 11 Aug 2020 8:29 AM by Angi2019
Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 8:20 AM
Angi2019 wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 8:10 AM
Is it correct that way?
JEIN.
Craftqueue is a QoL feature to have people not sit and watch the screen all the time. So of course you can start a craftqueue and do something else in the meanwhile.

If it comes to the cat and the cat taking over the control of your toon: if you need to afk for more than 5 min i would recommend to log out or to have an eye on the screen. If you get tested and you (or the cat) fails the test, the ban will apply.

THX for answer & info
Tue 11 Aug 2020 9:02 AM by Stoertebecker
Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 7:50 AM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 11:37 PM
Btw, maybe someone has to check the rules on the mainpage. There are punishments listed for nearly all kind of stuff, except client modifications like radar/speedhack etc.
That should be your main objective for bans, not if someone buffed or healed the air in Midgards relic town.
You modified a lot of things since jan. 2019, you reduced the realm-switch-timer so that it is possible to switch nearly instant from 1 realm to another, you switched the poi-system several times etcetc, what you didn`t adjust are the rules. Maybe it`s time to overwork the rules to a bit more moderate version?

From the rules on the main site ->https://playphoenix.online/rules

4. Client Modifications
You may not modify any part of the Dark Age of Camelot client. This includes but is not limited to:
Any hardware or third-party software, altering movement speed of your character, revealing positions of enemy players (as Radar), Jump-Hacks, Client mods that change weather pattern, fog, terrain, or object positions.

The following violations cannot be pleaded: Any form of Radar, Speed-and Jump Hack (# 4.0)

People that are caught with any kind of client modification will get a perma ban and also arent allowed for probation.
I would add the punishment for violating this rule, just for completeness.

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 11:37 PM
Uthgard with only 100 players at primetime wasn`t fun, DAoC needs more players for a good gaming experience. Phoenix is still far from those numbers, but 44 acounts were banned only yesterday. Strange priorities....is it really important if someone used a multiacc 2-3 month ago? (As long as it isn`t Crossrealming) Hard to believe that it happened all yesterday and except 1 case all from the same GM.
Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 7:50 AM
So what is your suggetion? Each GM is only allowed to ban max 10 accs per day? Again you show some really strange point of view. The lower the numbers the more rule violations we should ignore or accept or overlook? Like I said somewhere in this thread before: It is not the staffs fault, if players dont read/follow the rules.
My view is from a players view, not from a GM. That may be the difference. You can ban as many ppl as you want for nonsense.
I wouldn`t ban someone just because a 2nd account was logged in on the same pc, plain and simple. As long as it wasn`t different realms and/or at the same time.
I simply don`t care about multiaccounts as long as they`re not involved in buffbotting or crossrealming.
I did not care before you throw the realm timer into the trash can, and i care even less after this change. I simply see no harm if a son/daughter/wife logs their account on fathers pc. I don`t know any other game with such a rule, not even on Uthgard. Just as an example how different we see things.

Maybe it would be a good start to punish violations if they happen and are reported, not by going through the log files just for having something to do.
Tue 11 Aug 2020 9:11 AM by Uthred
Boronia wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 8:24 AM
...

We dont feel like gods nor are players just numbers to us. We are aware of the fact, that any toon is representing a human being who is playing this toon. We also dont force anyone to afk for 15 mins. It also has nothing to do with humanity or being cold hearted. We treat any player the same and the rules are the same for any player. We dont care if there are only level 1 or rr 11 toons on the account. If a player is violating our rules, the player will get punished. This has happened in this case. Nothing more and nothing less.

If we do make a mistake, we dont have a problem to admit this and to remove a ban. Thats why every banned player has the right to talk to a staff member and ask for a review of his ban. This has happened in the case of your guildmember multiple times by nearly any staff member and the result was always the same. The ban is correct and will not be removed.

On a sidenote, staff member are human beings too. Asking the staff to show some humanity but on the other hand accusing the team of not being humans, thats not really nice at all.
Tue 11 Aug 2020 10:30 AM by Thoralf1
Its just sad.
As i mentioned above maybe some empathy / mercy would have helped.
Its an endless discussion like following the law by the word or with space for interpretation.
GM's decided by the word


Now that it became emotional from all sides there wont be space for good or less good arguments anyways.
Tue 11 Aug 2020 10:38 AM by Cymosxl
It's just funny to see ahk scripts with 4 styles on one button are ok and heal in relicamp ends with delete of all charrs,grats for all the gm
Tue 11 Aug 2020 10:59 AM by Astaa
Firstly, I really want to know where I can get a trained cat that can play DAOC, I want to roll something else but can't face the levelling, I have 8 50s...dreamies and felix rich.

Secondly, well done GMs for repeatedly explaining the rules, oven though they were pretty simple to understand in the first place! Overall you do an excellent, sometimes thankless job. Cheaters should and do get punished.

However...It does sound like this guy was maybe treated a little unfairly though, while it's a pretty odd story, it's not outside of the bounds of believability, even going off to make a cup of tea when working at my desk, I sometimes just toss my headphones onto my desk, I have returned to find they are leaning on a button, lots of 111111111111111111111111111 in a half typed email, for example. Given the story of his kid crying, I would throw my desk onto my keyboard if it meant getting to the child quicker.

Maybe relax on the mutings a little though please *

*I got 24 hours for calling exp gankers d***bags
Tue 11 Aug 2020 10:59 AM by fledermaus68
Ich schreibe wieder in deutsch da mein Englisch nicht so gut ist aber übersetzer text kommt mit.

Ich glaube nicht was ich da lese, aber Sie Glauben dran das merkt man so unsinnige Sachen zu schreiben ist der Hammer.
Und nur noch mal zur Info, mit mir Hat nur 1 GM geschrieben und sonnst keiner selbst Sie Herr Uthred haben sich nicht 1-mal dazu geäußert nach gefüllten 100-maliger an senden um Hilfe von einem GM wo deutsch spricht zu bekommen nur mal nebenbei.
Sie machen sich das sehr leicht, immer wieder auf die regeln hinzuweisen können sie nicht mehr oder haben Sie nur die Regeln auswendig gelernt?
Wenn das ein Regel verstoß ist dann armen für das Game.
Dann sind ja bald keine Spieler mehr da, aber das können sie ja nicht merken da sie zu Beschäftigt sind mit den regeln.
Und was soll das mit dem Foto oder dem Link was soll das Beweisen?
Das ist alles und soll reichen um einem Toon wie sie uns nennen alles zu nehmen?
Dachte man brauch mehr Beweise 2 GM, Video usw. aber bei euch anscheinend nicht ihr macht was ihr wollt, jeder GM darf willkürlich Leute rauswerfen wie er will Klasse echt Top Leistung.

Ich Dachte immer, wenn man Hilfe brauch von den GM, auch wenn man mal ein Fehler gemacht hat das man da Hilfe bekommt aber Irrtum.
Aber wenn man was sieht was nicht rechtens ist und man schreibt einen GM an, ist er sofort da glaube auch mit Bisschen Schaum vor den Mund das er mal wieder was bannen kann, toll zu wissen wie die GM ticken.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I don't believe what I'm reading there, but believe that you can tell that writing such nonsensical things is awesome.
And just for information, I only wrote 1 GM and nobody else yourself. You Mr. Uthred did not comment once after sending a filled 100 times to to get help from a GM who speaks German just by the way.
Do you make it very easy for yourself, you can no longer point out the rules again and again or have you just learned the rules by heart?
If that is a rule, then poor for the game.
Then soon there will be no more players, but they cannot notice that because they are too busy with the rules.
And what's the point with the photo or the link, what is that supposed to prove?
That is all and should be enough to take everything from a toon as they call us?
Thought one needed more proof 2 GM, video etc. but apparently you don't do what you want with you, every GM can arbitrarily throw people out as he wants, class really top performance.
I always thought that if you need help from the GM, even if you've made a mistake, you get help but error.
But if you see something that is not legal and you write to a GM, he is immediately there, even with a bit of foam at the mouth, that he can ban something again, great to know how the GM ticks.
Tue 11 Aug 2020 11:13 AM by gruenesschaf
fledermaus68 wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 10:59 AM
Und was soll das mit dem Foto oder dem Link was soll das Beweisen?
Das ist alles und soll reichen um einem Toon wie sie uns nennen alles zu nehmen?
Dachte man brauch mehr Beweise 2 GM, Video usw. aber bei euch anscheinend nicht ihr macht was ihr wollt, jeder GM darf willkürlich Leute rauswerfen wie er will Klasse echt Top Leistung.

Das Bild ist ein Screenshot von dem Video, an den Controls müsste erkennbar sein, dass es sich um YouTube handelt.

Fakt ist, dass dein Character ingame Aktionen vorgenommen und währenddessen nicht auf mehrfache Anfragen von einem GM reagiert hat. Die Anfragen kamen immer wenn dein Character eine Aktion gemacht hat, zusätzlich hat sich der GM auch noch vor deinem Character enttarnt.
Damit ist es ein Fakt, dass die unattended gameplay Regel verletzt wurde und somit sind die Folgen sicherlich keine Willkür.
Tue 11 Aug 2020 11:26 AM by fledermaus68
Mal wieder mit übersetzer...

Und warum bekommt man nicht das Video zu sehen und warum hat sich nicht ein 2 GM mal zu Wort gemeldet bei mir?
Ich habe 3-mal schon nach dem Video gefragt da einer der GM zu einem Gildenmitglied sagte nur der Betroffene kann es anfordern was ich ja schon 3-mal gemacht habe ich wiederhole mich glaube ich lol ist das ansteckend?

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

And why don't you get to see the video and why didn't a 2 GM speak to me?
I have already asked for the video 3 times because one of the GM said to a guild member only the person concerned can request it, which I have already done 3 times I repeat myself I think lol is that contagious?
Tue 11 Aug 2020 11:30 AM by gruenesschaf
fledermaus68 wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 11:26 AM
Mal wieder mit übersetzer...

Und warum bekommt man nicht das Video zu sehen und warum hat sich nicht ein 2 GM mal zu Wort gemeldet bei mir?
Ich habe 3-mal schon nach dem Video gefragt da einer der GM zu einem Gildenmitglied sagte nur der Betroffene kann es anfordern was ich ja schon 3-mal gemacht habe ich wiederhole mich glaube ich lol ist das ansteckend?

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

And why don't you get to see the video and why didn't a 2 GM speak to me?
I have already asked for the video 3 times because one of the GM said to a guild member only the person concerned can request it, which I have already done 3 times I repeat myself I think lol is that contagious?

While I doubt a gm told someone that you could see the video on request, if he actually did he was wrong. Since the videos are usually uploaded to youtube, giving them out would be leaking some private infos from our gms and hence we don't do that.
Anyways, all the video would show is you casting group heal every so often while the gm is messaging you and running around in front of you.
Tue 11 Aug 2020 11:36 AM by Stoertebecker
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 11:13 AM
fledermaus68 wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 10:59 AM
Und was soll das mit dem Foto oder dem Link was soll das Beweisen?
Das ist alles und soll reichen um einem Toon wie sie uns nennen alles zu nehmen?
Dachte man brauch mehr Beweise 2 GM, Video usw. aber bei euch anscheinend nicht ihr macht was ihr wollt, jeder GM darf willkürlich Leute rauswerfen wie er will Klasse echt Top Leistung.

Das Bild ist ein Screenshot von dem Video, an den Controls müsste erkennbar sein, dass es sich um YouTube handelt.

Damit ist es ein Fakt, dass die unattended gameplay Regel verletzt wurde und somit sind die Folgen sicherlich keine Willkür.

Also ich müsste mich irren wenn ich mal schreibe das niemand behauptet hat das er nicht am Rechner war.
Worüber man sich aufregt ist wohl eher die Frage ob man zwingend alles bislang erreichte löschen muß, um das in diesem Fall geringfügige Vergehen zu ahnden.
Ich finde das muß man nicht, man kann auch durchaus differenzieren. Gibt es sogar im RL, Vorsatz wird anders bestraft als Taten im Affekt.
Es ist eben nicht dasselbe ob jemand in einer sicheren Zone afk rumsteht und unbeabsichtigt regelmäßig eine Aktion durchführt, oder ob jemand afk an einem Levelspot steht und seine Pets farmen lässt. Letztendlich Auslegungssache/Ansichtssache, und entbehrt nicht einer gewissen Komik wenn man bedenkt das wir eigentlich auf einem Piratenserver spielen der sicherlich auch gegen das ein oder andere verstößt, was nur niemand verfolgt.

Ich könnte mir auch denken das so mancher einen Bann für 2 Wochen, löschen aller Chars und anschließend darf man dann weiterspielen als hochgradig sarkastisch-zynisch und verachtend betrachtet.
Tue 11 Aug 2020 11:58 AM by Gambler
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 11:30 AM
fledermaus68 wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 11:26 AM
Mal wieder mit übersetzer...

Und warum bekommt man nicht das Video zu sehen und warum hat sich nicht ein 2 GM mal zu Wort gemeldet bei mir?
Ich habe 3-mal schon nach dem Video gefragt da einer der GM zu einem Gildenmitglied sagte nur der Betroffene kann es anfordern was ich ja schon 3-mal gemacht habe ich wiederhole mich glaube ich lol ist das ansteckend?

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

And why don't you get to see the video and why didn't a 2 GM speak to me?
I have already asked for the video 3 times because one of the GM said to a guild member only the person concerned can request it, which I have already done 3 times I repeat myself I think lol is that contagious?

While I doubt a gm told someone that you could see the video on request, if he actually did he was wrong. Since the videos are usually uploaded to youtube, giving them out would be leaking some private infos from our gms and hence we don't do that.
Anyways, all the video would show is you casting group heal every so often while the gm is messaging you and running around in front of you.
so what is the common period of time u will give the people for beeing afk before they get warned /penaly/banned ?
Tue 11 Aug 2020 12:07 PM by Alpenbruder
Alussia/Horst is one of the most honest and fairplay encouraged personalities I have ever met.

How well GMs can listen and be a flag in the wind when it comes to buff certain realms upon crying but when the community stands behind a very valued player, you dont care.

How about fixing Necro's and Animist's bugusing? - oh, no resources for protocols on this server - you have to caught them in the act... Unfortunately you dont have time since you have to hunt and punish the AFK'ers.
Tue 11 Aug 2020 12:09 PM by Centenario
I think the person should just accept the consequence of his/her inadvertence. It's a shame, but its destiny/fate/life, it is sometimes absurd...

I could also come up with scenarios:

Scenario 1:
- Player was using group heal with macro in a group
-- Player died
--- Player released at relic town
---- Group heal macro still in effect

Scenario 2:
- Player has a script with repeat that you can turn on/off (forbidden)
-- Player went afk and inadvertently (he/she/it) pressed the key to turn the script ON.

Scenario 3:
- Player had to go afk urgently and conveniently used a tool (headset) to press down on a key; he/she thought it could have been fine for 20-30sec but had to afk for an extended period of time
-- Player died
--- Player released at relic town
---- Group heal key still in pressed by tool

I personally have been in groups with players who we suddenly realize are afk and running a repeat macro. Usually on groupheal...
The group instantly dies, because everybody suddenly gets scared of getting banned.

I think the 1% on the server are the people breaking the rules, its not so common, and it's good that they get banned.

There is definitely more chances that I would personally get banned on scenario 3, cause I am really not ballsy enough to go afk with repeat macros.
I think that's what happened to that player, for sure its sickening (Murphy's law), I just hope that it's not his/her second offense!

Finally, stay positive, it's fun to start over in DAoC. For sure the RR loss is a pain, cause RR grind is not fun. I personally don't value RR as much as in 2002, when it was actually rare to find high RR characters. You can get to RR5 in less than a week, RR7 in less than a month, you should have a competitive character then, higher than that is just sweetness IMO.
Tue 11 Aug 2020 1:40 PM by dbeattie71
Gambler wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 4:36 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 2:34 PM
Gambler wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 10:47 AM
Hail fellow campaigners , i recently talked to a friend of mine and told him what happened a couple days ago when my daughter felt from her bicycle and i had to rush out in the yard because she was yelling and crying. So i just dropped everything while running out and my headset felt on the keyboard and i was spamming coincidentally grp heals , which wasnt so bad for the group until i was oom but as my friend just told me i am lucky that i didnt get banned for that , while i was approx 15mins afk to watch after my kid.
So my question is now , would u call this unattended gameplay ? And if yes what kind of penalty i am expecting to this incident ?
Would also be nice if i can get an advice from a DEV / GM , tia ....

As already written.. 2 weeks and all chars gone.

There is nearly zero understanding that under some circumstances RL comes first. You have to log out, make sure that you`re logged out, and then you can go.
So just for my understanding to be clear , i am leveling in a group as usual somehow my kid is yelling and crying as hell and u dont know what happend , i have to log out my account before i check what happened to my kid , seriously ? so i could be banned for this , really ??? hopefully u guys who made this kind of rules have no kids and wont have kids at all !!!

Just hit reset or pull the plug, takes 2s.
Tue 11 Aug 2020 3:07 PM by Gambler
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 1:40 PM
Gambler wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 4:36 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 2:34 PM
Gambler wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 10:47 AM
Hail fellow campaigners , i recently talked to a friend of mine and told him what happened a couple days ago when my daughter felt from her bicycle and i had to rush out in the yard because she was yelling and crying. So i just dropped everything while running out and my headset felt on the keyboard and i was spamming coincidentally grp heals , which wasnt so bad for the group until i was oom but as my friend just told me i am lucky that i didnt get banned for that , while i was approx 15mins afk to watch after my kid.
So my question is now , would u call this unattended gameplay ? And if yes what kind of penalty i am expecting to this incident ?
Would also be nice if i can get an advice from a DEV / GM , tia ....

As already written.. 2 weeks and all chars gone.

There is nearly zero understanding that under some circumstances RL comes first. You have to log out, make sure that you`re logged out, and then you can go.
So just for my understanding to be clear , i am leveling in a group as usual somehow my kid is yelling and crying as hell and u dont know what happend , i have to log out my account before i check what happened to my kid , seriously ? so i could be banned for this , really ??? hopefully u guys who made this kind of rules have no kids and wont have kids at all !!!

Just hit reset or pull the plug, takes 2s.
ohhh another smart one who dont get the point. If u ever had into a situation like this u just run without thinking of a game or consequences u might get .... U JUST RUN !!!!
Tue 11 Aug 2020 3:16 PM by Crazyphader
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 11:36 AM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 11:13 AM
fledermaus68 wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 10:59 AM
Und was soll das mit dem Foto oder dem Link was soll das Beweisen?
Das ist alles und soll reichen um einem Toon wie sie uns nennen alles zu nehmen?
Dachte man brauch mehr Beweise 2 GM, Video usw. aber bei euch anscheinend nicht ihr macht was ihr wollt, jeder GM darf willkürlich Leute rauswerfen wie er will Klasse echt Top Leistung.

Das Bild ist ein Screenshot von dem Video, an den Controls müsste erkennbar sein, dass es sich um YouTube handelt.

Damit ist es ein Fakt, dass die unattended gameplay Regel verletzt wurde und somit sind die Folgen sicherlich keine Willkür.

Also ich müsste mich irren wenn ich mal schreibe das niemand behauptet hat das er nicht am Rechner war.
Worüber man sich aufregt ist wohl eher die Frage ob man zwingend alles bislang erreichte löschen muß, um das in diesem Fall geringfügige Vergehen zu ahnden.
Ich finde das muß man nicht, man kann auch durchaus differenzieren. Gibt es sogar im RL, Vorsatz wird anders bestraft als Taten im Affekt.
Es ist eben nicht dasselbe ob jemand in einer sicheren Zone afk rumsteht und unbeabsichtigt regelmäßig eine Aktion durchführt, oder ob jemand afk an einem Levelspot steht und seine Pets farmen lässt. Letztendlich Auslegungssache/Ansichtssache, und entbehrt nicht einer gewissen Komik wenn man bedenkt das wir eigentlich auf einem Piratenserver spielen der sicherlich auch gegen das ein oder andere verstößt, was nur niemand verfolgt.

Ich könnte mir auch denken das so mancher einen Bann für 2 Wochen, löschen aller Chars und anschließend darf man dann weiterspielen als hochgradig sarkastisch-zynisch und verachtend betrachtet.

@Uthred

Then please explain what the point is to punish non-targeted abuse much harder than targeted abuse, which gives you a game progress or a similar advantage.

Someone who has not taken advantage of the situation is punished much more severely.



Shouldn't a situation be judged based on determination level and a check for targeted abuse or not? and what benefit I got from it...

@admins

Eure Community bedeutet euch nichts. Ändert eure 1offense Regel wenn ihr nicht in der Lage seid zu unterscheiden
Tue 11 Aug 2020 3:19 PM by Stoertebecker
Gambler wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 3:07 PM
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 1:40 PM
Gambler wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 4:36 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 2:34 PM
Gambler wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Aug 2020 10:47 AM
Hail fellow campaigners , i recently talked to a friend of mine and told him what happened a couple days ago when my daughter felt from her bicycle and i had to rush out in the yard because she was yelling and crying. So i just dropped everything while running out and my headset felt on the keyboard and i was spamming coincidentally grp heals , which wasnt so bad for the group until i was oom but as my friend just told me i am lucky that i didnt get banned for that , while i was approx 15mins afk to watch after my kid.
So my question is now , would u call this unattended gameplay ? And if yes what kind of penalty i am expecting to this incident ?
Would also be nice if i can get an advice from a DEV / GM , tia ....

As already written.. 2 weeks and all chars gone.

There is nearly zero understanding that under some circumstances RL comes first. You have to log out, make sure that you`re logged out, and then you can go.
So just for my understanding to be clear , i am leveling in a group as usual somehow my kid is yelling and crying as hell and u dont know what happend , i have to log out my account before i check what happened to my kid , seriously ? so i could be banned for this , really ??? hopefully u guys who made this kind of rules have no kids and wont have kids at all !!!

Just hit reset or pull the plug, takes 2s.
ohhh another smart one who dont get the point. If u ever had into a situation like this u just run without thinking of a game or consequences u might get .... U JUST RUN !!!!

He don`t get that we`re not complaining about the punishment, we are complaining of the kind of punishment for a 1st offense on a otherwise clean account.
Atm it`s on the same level like running radar/speed hack/any form of client modifications. It`s like a perma ban with a perma middlefinger as a bonus * You can still play if like getting buttplugged with an anchor*.
Tue 11 Aug 2020 4:30 PM by Crazyphader
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 11:13 AM
fledermaus68 wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 10:59 AM
Und was soll das mit dem Foto oder dem Link was soll das Beweisen?
Das ist alles und soll reichen um einem Toon wie sie uns nennen alles zu nehmen?
Dachte man brauch mehr Beweise 2 GM, Video usw. aber bei euch anscheinend nicht ihr macht was ihr wollt, jeder GM darf willkürlich Leute rauswerfen wie er will Klasse echt Top Leistung.

Das Bild ist ein Screenshot von dem Video, an den Controls müsste erkennbar sein, dass es sich um YouTube handelt.

Fakt ist, dass dein Character ingame Aktionen vorgenommen und währenddessen nicht auf mehrfache Anfragen von einem GM reagiert hat. Die Anfragen kamen immer wenn dein Character eine Aktion gemacht hat, zusätzlich hat sich der GM auch noch vor deinem Character enttarnt.
Damit ist es ein Fakt, dass die unattended gameplay Regel verletzt wurde und somit sind die Folgen sicherlich keine Willkür.
You are obliged to your community to ensure that the severity of the punishment is a deliberate abuse, from which an unfair game advantage or progress can be achieved with a recognizable intention!

There are factors here:

What advantage did the player gain?
How effective is the intention behind it?
Can a recognizable intention be recognized at all?
And above all, has the player ever owed something in the past or not?

How else would you answer your community for this if you put such a severe punishment on it!

Instead, you just assume that the player has always been doing this and always breaking the rules. You make it easy for yourself at the expense of your community.
You cannot find out whether there is an accident behind this, then defuse your sentence that is behind it.

We are your community


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Ihr seid gegenüber eurer Community verpflichtet sicherzustellen, bei der härte der Strafe, ob ein gezielter Missbrauch gegeben ist woraus man einen unfairen Spielvorteil oder Fortschritt gezielt mit einer erkennbaren absicht erwirkt !

Dabei gibt es Faktoren:

Welchen Vorteil hat sich der Spieler verschafft?
Wie Zielführend ist die absicht dahinter?
Ist überhaupt eine erkennbare absicht zu erkennen?
Und vor allem hat sich der Spieler in der vergangenheit schon einmal was zu schulden kommen lassen oder nicht?

Wie wollt ihr das sonst gegenüber eurer Community verantworten, wenn ihr eine solch harte strafe darauf setzt !

Ihr nehmt stattdessen einfach an, dass der Spieler das dann schon immer macht und schon immer die Regeln bricht. Ihr macht es euch einfach auf kosten eurer Community.
Ob dahinter ein Unfall steckt könnt ihr nicht ergründen, dann entschärft euer Strafmaß das dahinter steht.

Wir sind eure Community
Tue 11 Aug 2020 4:33 PM by Thoralf1
Genau!!!!
Tue 11 Aug 2020 7:17 PM by fledermaus68
Alpenbruder wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 12:07 PM
Alussia/Horst is one of the most honest and fairplay encouraged personalities I have ever met.

How well GMs can listen and be a flag in the wind when it comes to buff certain realms upon crying but when the community stands behind a very valued player, you dont care.

How about fixing Necro's and Animist's bugusing? - oh, no resources for protocols on this server - you have to caught them in the act... Unfortunately you dont have time since you have to hunt and punish the AFK'ers.





Hey Alpenbruder vielen lieben Dank für den Post und die ehrlichen Worte.
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:06 AM by Crazyphader
Ihr bannt 14 Tage und löscht einem Spieler alle seine Charaktere, dafür das er afk auf einer mauer stand und sein headset auf der tastatur lag das versehentlich eine taste eingedrückt hat. Hier ist kein nutzen oder eine gezielte absicht zu erkennen.

Im Vergleich dazu Bannt ihr Leute die gezielt AFK Farming betreiben nur 3 Tage. Hier ist absichtlicher und gezielter missbrauch zu erkennen plus ein spielfortschritt.

Habt ihr denn garkein bezug zu verhältnissen?

Das wir uns das als community nicht gefallen lassen liegt doch auf der Hand. Gerade wenn dieser SPieler auch noch ein sehr geschätztes Mitglied der Community ist.

Dieser Spieler hat sich in 18 Monate nie was zu schulden gekommen lassen. Das muss man sich wirklich mal auf der zunge zergehen lassen.

Ihr habt diesem Spieler noch nicht einmal die Gelegenheit gegeben sich dazu zu äußern, bevor der Ban durchgeführt wurde.
Wenn jemand afk ist dann müsst ihr eben warten oder ihn wegporten bis er da ist und sich dazu äußern kann.
Es sei denn es ist ein AFK Farmer. Da ist der Fall klar.


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Ihr seid bisher in keiner art und weise bereit sich damit auseinander zu setzen um eine lösung zu finden.

Wir alle verbürgen uns für diesen Spieler

aber auch das ist euch egal, weil euch eure community scheinbar egal ist.

Und genau deshalb hört jetzt eine große Alliance auf zu existieren. Bei uns hinterlässt dieser Irrtum verheerenden schaden Ingame.

Jedem von uns wurde bewusst das ihn das auch treffen kann.

Keiner von uns hat verständnis für gezielten regel missbrauch. Damit das klar ist.

Hier geschieht in einzelnen fällen UNRECHT.

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Wir erwarten von euch heute eine Lösung die für beide Parteien angenehm ist

Wir fordern:
Eine Reduzierung im 1 offense Strafmaß was unnantended gameplay betrifft.

Begründung:
Wenn es in einzelnen Fällen spieler betrifft, die kein gezielten und aus ersichtlichen Gründen nachvollziehbaren Missbrauch betreiben, um einen vorteil aus der Situation zu erzielen, zu schützen vor der Löschung sämtlicher Charaktere und erarbeiteten Spielfortschritte. Um ihm die gelegenheit zu lassen sich wieder in das Spiel zu integrieren.

Denn wir empfinden einen Bann für 14 Tage, löschen aller Chars und anschließend darf man weiterspielen als hochgradig sarkastisch-zynisch und verachtend.
Da könnt ihr euch eure 2 offensive Sparen denn so jemand hat dann komplett den glauben an euch verloren.
So ein Schutzmechanismus ist eine gute Sache

Ihr solltet genau darüber nachdenken wie ihr als Admins mit eurer Community in solchen fällen umgeht. Hier schauen mittlerweile sehr viele Augen darauf was passieren wird.
Darauf ob sich das irgendwie ein wenig zum guten wendet von eurer Seite aus.
Und wir ziehen als eure Community an einem Strang. Seid euch dessen sicher.

Denn ohne stabile Community, gibts auch kein gutes Projekt.


Wir suchen den Kontakt zu euch um eine lösung zu finden.

Ein wenig Cooperation würden wir uns von eurer Seite wünschen


Es gibt genau 2 Möglichkeiten:

1. Ihr zeigt euch offen für eine klärung und lösung dieses Problems im Regelwerk. und auch in unserem explizitem Vorfall

2. Ihr zeigt eurer Community das sie euch gleichgültig ist indem ihr in einzelnen fällen weiter UNSCHULDIGE verurteilt. Verursacht durch ein brüchiges Regelwerk mit viel zu überzogener 1 offense Strafe. Und seid somit auch dafür verantwortlich das sich viele Spieler von diesem Projekt abwenden werden.
Wed 12 Aug 2020 10:05 AM by Uthred
Going to close this thread now. The question of the OP has been answered and we explained multiple times the reasoning behind the rule. We also answered multiple questions about the other ban. As this now turns into a, mostly in german written, discussing the ban thread, i will close it.

Pls refrain from opening new threads or starting new discussions about it. From our rules:

12.2 Public discussions about already enforced punishments are strictly forbidden in game, on forums and on discord.

If you have any further questions (even about the other ban), feel free to contact me on discord.
Wed 12 Aug 2020 11:12 AM by gruenesschaf
We've decided to open the thread for a bit again.

I'm really at a loss for words on some of the messages here. Like, do people actually believe that "threatening" is in any way helpful to effect a rule change? The fact that the thread had not been closed on the grounds that we don't discuss bans publicly should have been a gigantic hint that it is, well was, discussed internally.

Things that really, really don't make a rule change look good on our part:
The accused who without a shadow of a doubt violated the rule precisely as written claims no video exists because it wasn't shown to him and therefore his ban is completely arbitrary, aka insinuates that he did nothing wrong at all
Other people making demands and threatening consequences

What you should have been arguing exclusively from the get go is the intent behind the rule, which was written by me in this thread and should have been super obvious from the consequences of violating the rule: it is primarily targeting xp / gold bots / macro farming, when we still had keep tasks rp farming by preventing the auto kick in keeps was also a driver here as well as those that go to bed while in group and running some script.
The difference in this particular case is that there was no group and you were not at your bindpoint, if you were at your bindpoint it would easily be explained by having had auto release but in this particular case you had to have moved after a release before the automated casting started making it completely useless unattended gameplay where a deletion of the characters, to ensure no gains can be kept from this behavior, appears not warranted.

Now the questions is, how can we given all that still do the reasonable thing without it looking like people being annoying gets bans overturned.

To make it perfectly clear:
The accused in this case is guilty as charged, there is no innocent being punished here.
The only thing in question is how reasonable the full consequences of the rule violation are, well the only thing that appears unreasonable is the deletion, which invites a differentiation between macroing / scripting for gain and just avoiding the auto kick timer.
Wed 12 Aug 2020 11:48 AM by Centenario
If he was not at his bind point, then it means that either he/she has a ON/OFF repeat macro button, or he/she used a tool (headset to press on a button).
One or the other is enforceable (temp ban + deletion).
If jurisprudence (case law/rule), they the forums would get flooded with unban requests.

For sure if he/she hadnt complained, maybe the decision would be final. By complaining, he/she has made the case public and all eyes are on the jury/judges now. They can't decide without modifying the rules.

=>
The only thing in question is how reasonable the full consequences of the rule violation are, well the only thing that appears unreasonable is the deletion, which invites a differentiation between macroing / scripting for gain and just avoiding the auto kick timer.

We could say that the repeat in town should be punished or we would have spell spammers everywhere in a few minutes.
I could see something like:
1st offense temp ban 2 weeks only if the repeat did not result in personal gain.
Then it means that there is another judgment before the actual judgment: Did the offender benefit in the past (what? 24hour???) from that repeat?

I think its a hard decision.
"It's just a game"
"Doing nothing may sometimes be the best action of all"

You could ask for an arbitrage decision by randomly selected players in-game.
Wed 12 Aug 2020 11:52 AM by Leandrid
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Aug 2020 11:12 AM
To make it perfectly clear:
The accused in this case is guilty as charged, there is no innocent being punished here.
The only thing in question is how reasonable the full consequences of the rule violation are, well the only thing that appears unreasonable is the deletion, which invites a differentiation between macroing / scripting for gain and just avoiding the auto kick timer.

I read the whole thread and wanted to chime in. As far as I understand it, no one - including the "perpetrator" - denies that the mentioned rule was violated. In fact everyone - including at least one GM / admin, i.e. you - agrees, that the ban for 14 days is ok and acceptable, but the deletion of all chars is not. So why don't you do the sensible thing here and refrain from deleting the chars - or restore them - and let the poor man play a beloved game again? Where's the harm, if all sides agree that is the reasonable solution?

And about the mentioned "threats" uttered by some people. Human beings get emotional, desperate times call for desperate measures. I think it's quite understandable, that friends stick together.
Wed 12 Aug 2020 11:57 AM by Bradekes
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Aug 2020 11:12 AM
To make it perfectly clear:
The accused in this case is guilty as charged, there is no innocent being punished here.
The only thing in question is how reasonable the full consequences of the rule violation are, well the only thing that appears unreasonable is the deletion, which invites a differentiation between macroing / scripting for gain and just avoiding the auto kick timer.

So the OP states he drops his headset on his keyboard to go take care of his kid in a state of emergency and even goes as far to weigh his headset and post it on this thread and you still act like his actions were intentional to prevent auto kick timer?

I get maybe he could be lying sure.. but I think my whole disgust with seeing someone punished for such arbitrary reason is if he isn't lying this situation must really suck for him. Like DAoC is my enjoyment after a long day of work and my way to decompress.

I have a family and emergencies happen. If my daughter gets hurt I'd be throwing my headset down too and not giving two thoughts to if it landed on one of my binded keys. This isn't the first time I've seen you guys not care about family situations and it's really disheartening.

I've said it before I play with my sister who has 3 girls only one currently plays phoenix and the youngest(who has slight mental handicap) does show interest playing. God forbid she does something against the rules while playing and my sisters account gets banned in the future. You guys just don't seem to respect situations like that so I have no faith that you'd care. I also think it's half the reason my sister hasn't let her youngest play because she's scared of your rules.
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:10 PM by gruenesschaf
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Aug 2020 11:57 AM
So the OP states he drops his headset on his keyboard to go take care of his kid in a state of emergency and even goes as far to weigh his headset and post it on this thread and you still act like his actions were intentional to prevent auto kick timer?

I get maybe he could be lying sure.. but I think my whole disgust with seeing someone punished for such arbitrary reason is if he isn't lying this situation must really suck for him. Like DAoC is my enjoyment after a long day of work and my way to decompress.

If you had ever dealt with appeals you'd know that giving players the benefit of the doubt is not reasonable. The vast majority of people being banned suddenly did whatever they did unintentionally or unknowingly or didn't do it at all or make up the weirdest stories. We will most certainly not open us up to discuss every single clear cut rule violation.
If you violate the letter of the rules you will see consequences with no regard for you not knowing about the rules or whatever.

Apply it to cases like this and suddenly everyone who was lucky and went afk in a group with some script running and got auto released will just claim something fell on their keyboard (which most already do by the way, quite often those appear to be smart headsets that fell on the keyboard that can even hit multiple keys in certain intervals) and get off free?
No thank you, I'd rather have the 1 actual case per 18 months where something got stuck on the keyboard get punished for it than the alternative.
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:14 PM by Leandrid
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:10 PM
If you had ever dealt with appeals you'd know that giving players the benefit of the doubt is not reasonable. The vast majority of people being banned suddenly did whatever they did unintentionally or unknowingly or didn't do it at all or make up the weirdest stories. We will most certainly not open us up to discuss every single clear cut rule violation.
If you violate the letter of the rules you will see consequences with no regard for you not knowing about the rules or whatever.

Apply it to cases like this and suddenly everyone who was lucky and went afk in a group with some script running and got auto released will just claim something fell on their keyboard (which most already do by the way, quite often those appear to be smart headsets that fell on the keyboard that can even hit multiple keys in certain intervals) and get off free?
No thank you, I'd rather have the 1 actual case per 18 months where something got stuck on the keyboard get punished for it than the alternative.

Wow, just wow. I sincerely hope you and others of your team, should they really share this point of view, will never ever work in any form of law capacity. You should really step a bit back and reflect upon what you just wrote.

You not only kicked the basic principle of any law system in this world in the teeth (in dubio pro reo). You already said in your former post, that this case is not one of those, in which someone uses a script to gain an unfair advantage, dies and gets auto released with the script still running. You specifically said, that the char in this case did not stand at a bindpoint, and therefor had to walk to the place he was spotted by you. So how could this case applied to those cases in which players clearly used third party tools to gain an unfair advantage?
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:25 PM by gruenesschaf
Leandrid wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:14 PM
Wow, just wow. I sincerely hope you and others of your team, should they really share this point of view, will never ever work in any form of law capacity. You should really step a bit back and reflect upon what you just wrote.

You not only kicked the basic principle of any law system in this world in the teeth (in dubio pro reo). You already said in your former post, that this case is not one of those, in which someone uses a script to gain an unfair advantage, dies and gets auto released with the script still running. You specifically said, that the char in this case did not stand at a bindpoint, and therefor had to walk to the place he was spotted by you. So how could this case applied to those cases in which players clearly used third party tools to gain an unfair advantage?

Even in law if you unintentionally hit another persons car you got a problem, especially if you just drive off because "you didn't notice". Even in law if "something fell into your pockets" it's still considered shop lifting.

In dubio pro reo doesn't apply here as the rule violation literally happened, there is no more the question of innocence or guilt. Only mens rea is what we ignore / do not require.
Again, we do not ban people on a hunch but when they literally, unquestionably violated the letter of the rule. This is not something like we heard vague reports that he did something and then just ban him, no, we ban because the actual rule violation happened.

The rule as written does not require you to get an advantage of the unattended gameplay. And also again, that's the only thing that might be changed that the deletion will require mens rea / an advantage but the 14d ban will not.
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:29 PM by Leandrid
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:25 PM
Even in law if you unintentionally hit another persons car you got a problem, especially if you just drive off because "you didn't notice". Even in law if "something fell into your pockets" it's still considered shop lifting.

I don't know why you'd think this is the case. So if I can prove someone put some goods into my pocket, without me knowing it, I would be sentenced for shoplifting?

You already admitted the deletion of the chars seems unreasonable, so why not do the sensible thing here and refrain from doing that? Rules are made to be adjusted, if they prove to be insufficient. If that were not the case we still would incarcerate people for being gay. Sheesh, it's a game guys, you really should look at what you are doing here with some of your fellow human beings.
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:32 PM by Leandrid
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:25 PM
In dubio pro reo doesn't apply here as the rule violation literally happened, there is no more the question of innocence or guilt. Only mens rea is what we ignore / do not require.
Again, we do not ban people on a hunch but when they literally, unquestionably violated the letter of the rule. This is not something like we heard vague reports that he did something and then just ban him, no, we ban because the actual rule violation happened.

Of course it applies here. What is the intent of your mentioned rule? I guess it is to stop people from getting an unfair advantage, i.e. some damage must have been done. Where exactly is the damage here? No gold was farmed, no rps, no bps. He tried to circumvent an afk timer? Even if that were the case and you'd see that as damage being done, the deletion of all characters is indicated here?

And I already said in my former post, no one denies here that the mentioned rule was violated, only the punishment is not justified. The 14 days ban is ok, the deletion of all characters is not.
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:34 PM by gruenesschaf
Leandrid wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:29 PM
I don't know why you'd think this is the case. So if I can prove someone put some goods into my pocket, without me knowing it, I would be sentenced for shoplifting?

Ofc. if you can prove that it was a cat that pressed the buttons for you because you had a webcam recording you're free to send it in and if there indeed is a cat pressing the buttons you will be unbanned but without actual proof establishing such mitigating circumstances, aka just you saying x happened, no.
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:38 PM by Bradekes
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:25 PM
Even in law if you unintentionally hit another persons car you got a problem, especially if you just drive off because "you didn't notice". Even in law if "something fell into your pockets" it's still considered shop lifting.

In dubio pro reo doesn't apply here as the rule violation literally happened, there is no more the question of innocence or guilt. Only mens rea is what we ignore / do not require.
Again, we do not ban people on a hunch but when they literally, unquestionably violated the letter of the rule. This is not something like we heard vague reports that he did something and then just ban him, no, we ban because the actual rule violation happened.

The biggest difference is that you guys have tools we don't to check for how true a story is. You should use those tools responsibly to determine if there's reasonable doubt, which you already did by stating how there was very very minimal evidence showing that his actions were attempting to abuse your rules.

Even the one thing you could say he violated was dodging the afk kick timer... was he doing that to wait out realm task? Even if he was whyyyy would he do it in front of entire midgard realm at relic town!!?!?! You guys are smart enough to realize if someone was trying to break the rules they wouldn't be so obvious about it.

To me this is black and white the dude shouldn't receive punishment at all IMO and why is first offense dodging auto afk even punished by deleting all chars on an account in the first place!?
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:40 PM by Leandrid
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:34 PM
Leandrid wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:29 PM
I don't know why you'd think this is the case. So if I can prove someone put some goods into my pocket, without me knowing it, I would be sentenced for shoplifting?

Ofc. if you can prove that it was a cat that pressed the buttons for you because you had a webcam recording you're free to send it in and if there indeed is a cat pressing the buttons you will be unbanned but without actual proof establishing such mitigating circumstances, aka just you saying x happened, no.

The matter at hand here is an unjustified punishment, which you admitted could be the case here. So again the question: why not do the sensible thing and enforce the 14 days ban, refrain from deleting the chars and maybe think about adjusting the rule with some addendum like: each case will be reviewed individually and the final punishment is at the GMs discretion.
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:52 PM by gruenesschaf
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:38 PM
The biggest difference is that you guys have tools we don't to check for how true a story is. You should use those tools responsibly to determine if there's reasonable doubt, which you already did by stating how there was very very minimal evidence showing that his actions were attempting to abuse your rules.

Even the one thing you could say he violated was dodging the afk kick timer... was he doing that to wait out realm task? Even if he was whyyyy would he do it in front of entire midgard realm at relic town!!?!?! You guys are smart enough to realize if someone was trying to break the rules they wouldn't be so obvious about it.

To me this is black and white the dude shouldn't receive punishment at all IMO and why is first offense dodging auto afk even punished by deleting all chars on an account in the first place!?

The thing is, we do not want anyone anywhere for any reason be afk while their character does actions. That part of the rule is most certainly not in question and will not change.

Once more, the only thing that could change is the possible differentiation between "just" afk timer circumvention and gaining some advantage from their script with only the latter including the char deletion.
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:54 PM by Centenario
afk timer avoidance at 10L for task seems stupid, just for 1000RP you'd risk your account...
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:58 PM by Leandrid
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:52 PM
The thing is, we do not want anyone anywhere for any reason be afk while their character does actions. That part of the rule is most certainly not in question and will not change.

Once more, the only thing that could change is the possible differentiation between "just" afk timer circumvention and gaining some advantage from their script with only the latter including the char deletion.

That seems reasonable and I doubt anyone including the perpetrator at hand would disagree. So let's get it over with and let him play again with his chars after those 14 days. Everyone will be happy and we can continue bashing our heads in....... ingame of course.
Wed 12 Aug 2020 1:43 PM by Bradekes
Well I think you guys should add a instant quit command like /qtd so you can show that you're giving players options to help reduce instances like this. That way there's no way you could not exit the game if you attempted to in an emergency.
Wed 12 Aug 2020 3:32 PM by Stoertebecker
Leandrid wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:58 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:52 PM
The thing is, we do not want anyone anywhere for any reason be afk while their character does actions. That part of the rule is most certainly not in question and will not change.

Once more, the only thing that could change is the possible differentiation between "just" afk timer circumvention and gaining some advantage from their script with only the latter including the char deletion.

That seems reasonable and I doubt anyone including the perpetrator at hand would disagree. So let's get it over with and let him play again with his chars after those 14 days. Everyone will be happy and we can continue bashing our heads in....... ingame of course.

That would be a good solution, said that from the start.

And i`m pretty sure that it wont happen again or he`d loose his balls, irl. And some know where he`s living....
Thu 13 Aug 2020 6:33 PM by Noashakra
Centenario wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:54 PM
afk timer avoidance at 10L for task seems stupid, just for 1000RP you'd risk your account...

You underestimate human stupidity.
People get banned, lose their jobs or whatever for really stupid acts.

Ask Mcnasty, he lost all his toons for a stupid necro task item farming.
You would be surprised to see all the people that fucked up their life for something really stupid that didn't bring them a lot in the end.
Twitter is full of example of people losing their job or income for a stupid tweet that brought them nothing.

Well I think you guys should add a instant quit command like /qtd so you can show that you're giving players options to help reduce instances like this. That way there's no way you could not exit the game if you attempted to in an emergency.

You do know ALT F4 exists ?
Fri 14 Aug 2020 11:27 AM by Cadebrennus
If you're not a bot you can always let someone know ahead of time if there are potential emergencies. That way if you somewhat unexpectedly have to afk there's someone who can let a GM know on your behalf. It's also just good manners.

Real life example:

When I had time off after a long day of missions outside the wire, I was able to play Live via satellite connection from our base in the mountains (PvE only due to the latency). I let everyone I knew, groupmates and guildies alike, that I might have to leave suddenly and without warning due to a possible Taliban attack. They all confirmed and were prepared for it. It never became an issue but I had people aware in case it ever did become an issue.
Fri 14 Aug 2020 11:55 AM by Stoertebecker
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 11:27 AM
When I had time off after a long day of missions outside the wire, I was able to play Live via satellite connection from our base in the mountains (PvE only due to the latency). I let everyone I knew, groupmates and guildies alike, that I might have to leave suddenly and without warning due to a possible Taliban attack. They all confirmed and were prepared for it. It never became an issue but I had people aware in case it ever did become an issue.

That wouldn`t matter in case of unattended gameplay as you can read.
Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:15 PM by Cadebrennus
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 11:55 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 11:27 AM
When I had time off after a long day of missions outside the wire, I was able to play Live via satellite connection from our base in the mountains (PvE only due to the latency). I let everyone I knew, groupmates and guildies alike, that I might have to leave suddenly and without warning due to a possible Taliban attack. They all confirmed and were prepared for it. It never became an issue but I had people aware in case it ever did become an issue.

That wouldn`t matter in case of unattended gameplay as you can read.

For a pet class it can absolutely become an issue
Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:30 PM by Stoertebecker
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:15 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 11:55 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 11:27 AM
When I had time off after a long day of missions outside the wire, I was able to play Live via satellite connection from our base in the mountains (PvE only due to the latency). I let everyone I knew, groupmates and guildies alike, that I might have to leave suddenly and without warning due to a possible Taliban attack. They all confirmed and were prepared for it. It never became an issue but I had people aware in case it ever did become an issue.

That wouldn`t matter in case of unattended gameplay as you can read.

For a pet class it can absolutely become an issue

I know what you mean, most of us know what you mean, even GM`s know what you mean, but it doesn`t matter for them.
And i understand that and have no probs with the rule at all. It was just the form of punishment for the first offense on a otherwise clean account.
Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:53 PM by gotwqqd
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:30 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:15 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 11:55 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 11:27 AM
When I had time off after a long day of missions outside the wire, I was able to play Live via satellite connection from our base in the mountains (PvE only due to the latency). I let everyone I knew, groupmates and guildies alike, that I might have to leave suddenly and without warning due to a possible Taliban attack. They all confirmed and were prepared for it. It never became an issue but I had people aware in case it ever did become an issue.

That wouldn`t matter in case of unattended gameplay as you can read.

For a pet class it can absolutely become an issue

I know what you mean, most of us know what you mean, even GM`s know what you mean, but it doesn`t matter for them.
And i understand that and have no probs with the rule at all. It was just the form of punishment for the first offense on a otherwise clean account.
Bottom line
Some of the punishments are severe compared to other offenses punishments
Fri 14 Aug 2020 2:35 PM by Pzynom
Hi all,

Generally:
- Personally, I am a little bit ashamed of some community replies here. Lack of understanding and empathy is huge. (Yes, people claim staff lacks in empathy, but most of them are not trying to understand the staff, so this definitely applies to them.)
- Personally, I find the punishment very severe and would be great to find another solution (see below)
- I don't play Mid or know the affected person

Situation:
- Rule: If you do A, B is the consequence
Comment: It does not say, if you do A and this has the impact C, then B is the result
There is no further condition in the rule.
- Result: Clear Rule violation (yes, with severe consequences)
- After publicly discussing the topic and many complaining about staff, you all lowered the chances for a compromise, your harsh words didn't do any good, despite the intend.

Solution:
- Acknowledge the rule violation
- Understand the staff motives. It's a free server, limited time, so rules have to be in place that do not cause a lot of additional work. Disadvantage of the approach is a less sensitive ruleset. BUT understand, this is required for such a server/free offer.
- You could have tried to establish a discussion around a potential adjustment to the rules (since they already explained, no exception -> understand again the huge impact for them granting an exception).
- Since the overall discussion was just like ... staff, have empathy, lol, understand ... which is stupid
-> Supriisingly Staff actually offered you a potential solution. They said, ok, the rule is generally fine, lets deal with this case.
- Instead of jumping on that train and working on solutions, most ignored the "offer" and kept bashing
- If this would be Amazon, you would pay 10$ per month and if you show up in their detection system, your account would be history without a doubt, even if you pay for it. If you open a forum post, you would get banished.
-> This is why staff in my view shows empathy
- Potentially improve the current ruleset based on the given experience

My Proposal(s): (Adjustment, not Exception)
- 14 Ban, no deletion of chars, IF the impact is low. But put account on probation with a probation officer
(low impact is based on staff analysis or absolute clear evidence (staff determines if convincing evidence). No right to "discuss" evidence.

OR

- 14 Ban, no deletion of chars at 1st offense. Deletion of all chars 2nd offense.

We appreciate the server and your work for our fun!

Thank you, Pzy
Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:29 PM by Gambler
Pzynom wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 2:35 PM
Hi all,

Generally:
- Personally, I am a little bit ashamed of some community replies here. Lack of understanding and empathy is huge. (Yes, people claim staff lacks in empathy, but most of them are not trying to understand the staff, so this definitely applies to them.)
- Personally, I find the punishment very severe and would be great to find another solution (see below)
- I don't play Mid or know the affected person

Situation:
- Rule: If you do A, B is the consequence
Comment: It does not say, if you do A and this has the impact C, then B is the result
There is no further condition in the rule.
- Result: Clear Rule violation (yes, with severe consequences)
- After publicly discussing the topic and many complaining about staff, you all lowered the chances for a compromise, your harsh words didn't do any good, despite the intend.

Solution:
- Acknowledge the rule violation
- Understand the staff motives. It's a free server, limited time, so rules have to be in place that do not cause a lot of additional work. Disadvantage of the approach is a less sensitive ruleset. BUT understand, this is required for such a server/free offer.
- You could have tried to establish a discussion around a potential adjustment to the rules (since they already explained, no exception -> understand again the huge impact for them granting an exception).
- Since the overall discussion was just like ... staff, have empathy, lol, understand ... which is stupid
-> Supriisingly Staff actually offered you a potential solution. They said, ok, the rule is generally fine, lets deal with this case.
- Instead of jumping on that train and working on solutions, most ignored the "offer" and kept bashing
- If this would be Amazon, you would pay 10$ per month and if you show up in their detection system, your account would be history without a doubt, even if you pay for it. If you open a forum post, you would get banished.
-> This is why staff in my view shows empathy
- Potentially improve the current ruleset based on the given experience

My Proposal(s): (Adjustment, not Exception)
- 14 Ban, no deletion of chars, IF the impact is low. But put account on probation with a probation officer
(low impact is based on staff analysis or absolute clear evidence (staff determines if convincing evidence). No right to "discuss" evidence.

OR

- 14 Ban, no deletion of chars at 1st offense. Deletion of all chars 2nd offense.

We appreciate the server and your work for our fun!

Thank you, Pzy
Personally, I am a little bit ashamed of some community replies here.Lack of understanding and empathy is huge.
u made my day , thx
Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:39 PM by Thoralf1
nothing more we all want. Ban ok but no deletion.
Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:47 PM by Crazyphader
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:52 PM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Aug 2020 12:38 PM
The biggest difference is that you guys have tools we don't to check for how true a story is. You should use those tools responsibly to determine if there's reasonable doubt, which you already did by stating how there was very very minimal evidence showing that his actions were attempting to abuse your rules.

Even the one thing you could say he violated was dodging the afk kick timer... was he doing that to wait out realm task? Even if he was whyyyy would he do it in front of entire midgard realm at relic town!!?!?! You guys are smart enough to realize if someone was trying to break the rules they wouldn't be so obvious about it.

To me this is black and white the dude shouldn't receive punishment at all IMO and why is first offense dodging auto afk even punished by deleting all chars on an account in the first place!?

The thing is, we do not want anyone anywhere for any reason be afk while their character does actions. That part of the rule is most certainly not in question and will not change.

Once more, the only thing that could change is the possible differentiation between "just" afk timer circumvention and gaining some advantage from their script with only the latter including the char deletion.

Hello Gruenesschaf,

would be nice if we could solve this in our case and would be nice if we can do this in the future.


Than means:

No deletion for all characters for afk timer circumvention as 1 offense

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10 days ago it was the ban.




For our large German community, everything depends on it.

Please give him a second chance and let him have his character again in that case. So that we can continue to present ourselves happily as the German-Ally in the future.

We would like to announce a positive answer so that not everyone from us stops playing and the alliance does not break completely.

It is a very unfortunate situation for everyone involved.

We have no bad intentions and distance ourselves from any player who deliberately abuses the rules.



And finally we want to thank you that you are ready to deal with it at all.

Weltenbrand
Fri 14 Aug 2020 6:00 PM by Pzynom
Gambler wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:29 PM
Pzynom wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 2:35 PM
Hi all,

...

Thank you, Pzy
Personally, I am a little bit ashamed of some community replies here.Lack of understanding and empathy is huge.
u made my day , thx

Did you understand, what I am trying to do? Yeah, not.
Please read till end next time.
Probably I should stop argueing for a better solution and she/he should instead.
Please vote for Gambler, since he clearly has a plan and is focussing on a compromise. People you need in urgency = Gambler!
@Gambler :Awesome, please move forward the situation and improve the current state. Thank you, awesome work!
Go, present your solution and imrovements!
Great Defenders of the Galaxy you need!

Thanks, Pzy
Fri 14 Aug 2020 6:15 PM by fledermaus68
Hallo
Ich habe den Sachverhalt meines Problems an Gruenesscharf genau erläutert und Verbesserungen vorgeschlagen.
Jetzt warten wir ab und hoffen das es für alle gut ausgeht.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hello
I explained the facts of my problem to Gruenesscharf in detail and suggested improvements.
Now we wait and hope that it all turns out well for everyone.

Thank you Alussia
Fri 14 Aug 2020 6:22 PM by Pzynom
fledermaus68 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 6:15 PM
Hallo
Ich habe den Sachverhalt meines Problems an Gruenesscharf genau erläutert und Verbesserungen vorgeschlagen.
Jetzt warten wir ab und hoffen das es für alle gut ausgeht.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hello
I explained the facts of my problem to Gruenesscharf in detail and suggested improvements.
Now we wait and hope that it all turns out well for everyone.

Thank you Alussia

Yes, and in negotiations you have to try and try and try This is my proposal Thanks
(Not sure what you are trying to say, you tried, it's over? .... OK, sorry for my proposal)
Fri 14 Aug 2020 6:23 PM by Cadebrennus
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:30 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 12:15 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 11:55 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 11:27 AM
When I had time off after a long day of missions outside the wire, I was able to play Live via satellite connection from our base in the mountains (PvE only due to the latency). I let everyone I knew, groupmates and guildies alike, that I might have to leave suddenly and without warning due to a possible Taliban attack. They all confirmed and were prepared for it. It never became an issue but I had people aware in case it ever did become an issue.

That wouldn`t matter in case of unattended gameplay as you can read.

For a pet class it can absolutely become an issue

I know what you mean, most of us know what you mean, even GM`s know what you mean, but it doesn`t matter for them.
And i understand that and have no probs with the rule at all. It was just the form of punishment for the first offense on a otherwise clean account.

For an otherwise clean account I agree completely
Fri 14 Aug 2020 7:53 PM by Gambler
Pzynom wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 6:00 PM
Gambler wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:29 PM
Pzynom wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 2:35 PM
Hi all,

...

Thank you, Pzy
Personally, I am a little bit ashamed of some community replies here.Lack of understanding and empathy is huge.
u made my day , thx

Did you understand, what I am trying to do? Yeah, not.
Please read till end next time.
Probably I should stop argueing for a better solution and she/he should instead.
Please vote for Gambler, since he clearly has a plan and is focussing on a compromise. People you need in urgency = Gambler!
@Gambler :Awesome, please move forward the situation and improve the current state. Thank you, awesome work!
Go, present your solution and imrovements!
Great Defenders of the Galaxy you need!

Thanks, Pzy
please dude , read the whole story and inbetween the lines , then u might get the point , thx yr sincerly Gambler
Fri 14 Aug 2020 8:00 PM by Pzynom
Gambler wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 7:53 PM
Pzynom wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 6:00 PM
Gambler wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:29 PM
Pzynom wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 2:35 PM
Hi all,

...

Thank you, Pzy
Personally, I am a little bit ashamed of some community replies here.Lack of understanding and empathy is huge.
u made my day , thx

...

Thanks, Pzy
please dude , read the whole story and inbetween the lines , then u might get the point , thx yr sincerly Gambler

You dont even understand what I am trying to do. Ok, I am out and you have proven to be difficult … great asset Bye
I still think there should be a less severe punishment, but you perfectly argue that! Thanks

We need to be humble to consider your support. You wipe everything away, just with some words … wow, thats the solution and proposal we all been waiting for! Respect. Thank you for being on our side! (Wait, which side is he on, maybe stupid)"

Please find my specific proposal above.
Where is your wisdom and proposal - oh, you only have complaints?!
Thank you! I
If I would be the one in trouble, sticking to you sounds like a fantastic idea! I dont care Bye
Fri 14 Aug 2020 8:45 PM by Gambler
Pzynom wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 8:00 PM
Gambler wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 7:53 PM
Pzynom wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 6:00 PM
Gambler wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:29 PM
Pzynom wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 2:35 PM
Hi all,

...

Thank you, Pzy
Personally, I am a little bit ashamed of some community replies here.Lack of understanding and empathy is huge.
u made my day , thx

...

Thanks, Pzy
please dude , read the whole story and inbetween the lines , then u might get the point , thx yr sincerly Gambler

You dont even understand what I am trying to do. Ok, I am out and you have proven to be difficult … great asset Bye
I still think there should be a less severe punishment, but you perfectly argue that! Thanks

We need to be humble to consider your support, you wipe everything away, just with some words … wow, thats the solution and proposal we all been waiting for! Respect. Thank you for being on our side! (Wait, which side is he on, maybe stupid)"

Please find my proposal above.
Where is your wisdom?
Thank you, if I would be the one in trouble, sticking to you sounds like a fantastic idea! I dont care Bye
omg if everybody would be so smart as u , we dont have or had any problems not only here the whole world would be a better place , what a shame that u are not the Allmighty , or maybe our luck ?
by the way did u realize who opened that thread and for what reason ? nahh how could u realize that u just wanted to solve a NOT existing problem anymore and wanted to be a smart... , but as i said before and u obviously couldnt be able to , read in between the lines but it seems we have here a particularly severe case of cantfixstupid , good night hun and sleep well , i am over and out
Fri 14 Aug 2020 8:55 PM by Pzynom
Gambler wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 8:45 PM
Pzynom wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 8:00 PM
Gambler wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 7:53 PM
Pzynom wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 6:00 PM
Gambler wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 5:29 PM
Pzynom wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Aug 2020 2:35 PM
Hi all,

...

Thank you, Pzy
Personally, I am a little bit ashamed of some community replies here.Lack of understanding and empathy is huge.
u made my day , thx

...

Thanks, Pzy
please dude , read the whole story and inbetween the lines , then u might get the point , thx yr sincerly Gambler

You dont even understand what I am trying to do. Ok, I am out and you have proven to be difficult … great asset Bye
I still think there should be a less severe punishment, but you perfectly argue that! Thanks

We need to be humble to consider your support, you wipe everything away, just with some words … wow, thats the solution and proposal we all been waiting for! Respect. Thank you for being on our side! (Wait, which side is he on, maybe stupid)"

Please find my proposal above.
Where is your wisdom?
Thank you, if I would be the one in trouble, sticking to you sounds like a fantastic idea! I dont care Bye
omg if everybody would be so smart as u , we dont have or had any problems not only here the whole world would be a better place , what a shame that u are not the Allmighty , or maybe our luck ?
by the way did u realize who opened that thread and for what reason ? nahh how could u realize that u just wanted to solve a NOT existing problem anymore and wanted to be a smart... , but as i said before and u obviously couldnt be able to , read in between the lines but it seems we have here a particularly severe case of cantfixstupid , good night hun and sleep well , i am over and out

Great, @Staff, please ignore my thoughts and suggestions to mitigate the effects. This guy has the solution!
Oh, he doesn't propose anything, just complaining and not improving the Situation … well he doesn't care ….

But I am done speaking for a Mid. They obviously have awesome Friends like you …. wait, you didnt propose anything … still good friends
Sat 15 Aug 2020 9:49 PM by Centenario
@Pzynom

Most of what you said was already said or didnt need to be said.
At the end it's the decision of the staff, we shouldn't try to teach or try to influence too much.
Have to stay smooth.

Grueneschaff said on page 8-9
"Other people making demands and threatening consequences"
[...]
"The only thing in question is how reasonable the full consequences of the rule violation are, well the only thing that appears unreasonable is the deletion, which invites a differentiation between macroing / scripting for gain and just avoiding the auto kick timer."
[...]
"The rule as written does not require you to get an advantage of the unattended gameplay. And also again, that's the only thing that might be changed that the deletion will require mens rea / an advantage but the 14d ban will not."
Sun 16 Aug 2020 1:58 PM by Pzynom
Well, I tried to support (obviously not appreciated anymore) and was on a mission, but apparently they got what they wanted.
There was a phase in the thread, when they asked for support and mentioned … IMAGINE THIS HAPPENS TO YOU ….

Now that the result seems to have turned out positively for them, they forgot about the general Topic, the rule now is fine and it*s a NON-EXISTING Topic.
@Gambler: I get your SELFISHNESS

Please correct me, since I dont know the state. Would be surprised by an exception, but I didnt read between the lines, because I dont even read every post
Sun 16 Aug 2020 4:42 PM by Bradekes
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Aug 2020 6:33 PM
You do know ALT F4 exists ?

ALT + F4 doesn't do anything on Phoenix
Thu 20 Aug 2020 5:02 PM by Noashakra
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Aug 2020 4:42 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Aug 2020 6:33 PM
You do know ALT F4 exists ?

ALT + F4 doesn't do anything on Phoenix

kill the task or shut down the computer then.
Thu 20 Aug 2020 5:12 PM by Bradekes
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Aug 2020 5:02 PM
Kill the task or shut down the computer then.

The request is for an easy in-game termination of the program.. it was in the game on live was /qtd quit to desktop. It's not easy button press if you gotta tab out and task manager noob. And cold shutting off pc is really bad for your pc.
Think something someone can do in an emergency where seconds could count.
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