Can we talk about the Stealth Issue

I know beta is not reflective of launch. I know balancing stealth classes in DAOC is a challenge.

I am not saying stealth classes are busted or broken, but you look at the current population and there is an uneven amount of stealthers running amuck. A lot of them are high RR.

I am really concerned that there could be an inflated number of stealthers at live, many of which are high RR and 1-2 shotting players along roads and milegates in Emain, Odins etc.. Some players will say well its because of /level, but I don't really know. Stealth classes were a niche in dAOC.

It was not like that back during Shrouded Isles. Partly it was because they were tough to level, template, and get decent weapons etc.. Something just feels off on Phoenix concerning the stealthers. They just weren't that good. Sure you could be effective get high RR and pick your spots, but on Phoenix at least during beta it is sorta imbalanced.

I am not asking for a nerfbat. I am just worried the server will be shortlived if these stealthers run rampant feasting on casuals who can not defend themselves.

Tue 2 Oct 2018 12:43 AM by Varano

Minst, Skald and stealthers are the only solo classes because there are no mounts, this is what happens.

Tue 2 Oct 2018 1:13 AM by Zansobar

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Oct 2018 10:53 PM
I know beta is not reflective of launch. I know balancing stealth classes in DAOC is a challenge.

I am not saying stealth classes are busted or broken, but you look at the current population and there is an uneven amount of stealthers running amuck. A lot of them are high RR.

I am really concerned that there could be an inflated number of stealthers at live, many of which are high RR and 1-2 shotting players along roads and milegates in Emain, Odins etc.. Some players will say well its because of /level, but I don't really know. Stealth classes were a niche in dAOC.

It was not like that back during Shrouded Isles. Partly it was because they were tough to level, template, and get decent weapons etc.. Something just feels off on Phoenix concerning the stealthers. They just weren't that good. Sure you could be effective get high RR and pick your spots, but on Phoenix at least during beta it is sorta imbalanced.

I am not asking for a nerfbat. I am just worried the server will be shortlived if these stealthers run rampant feasting on casuals who can not defend themselves.

There won't be any casuals, at least not in a finely tuned 8v8 group roaming around, not due to steathers, but due to the premade elite 8v8 groups that will be rolling any PUG 8mans and any small mans as they cruise the frontiers. The buff disparity between casuals (those without full buffs) and those in 8mans with full buffs will only make the gap wider and increase this disparity.

Tue 2 Oct 2018 1:36 AM by defiasbandit

Zansobar wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Oct 2018 1:13 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Oct 2018 10:53 PM
I know beta is not reflective of launch. I know balancing stealth classes in DAOC is a challenge.

I am not saying stealth classes are busted or broken, but you look at the current population and there is an uneven amount of stealthers running amuck. A lot of them are high RR.

I am really concerned that there could be an inflated number of stealthers at live, many of which are high RR and 1-2 shotting players along roads and milegates in Emain, Odins etc.. Some players will say well its because of /level, but I don't really know. Stealth classes were a niche in dAOC.

It was not like that back during Shrouded Isles. Partly it was because they were tough to level, template, and get decent weapons etc.. Something just feels off on Phoenix concerning the stealthers. They just weren't that good. Sure you could be effective get high RR and pick your spots, but on Phoenix at least during beta it is sorta imbalanced.

I am not asking for a nerfbat. I am just worried the server will be shortlived if these stealthers run rampant feasting on casuals who can not defend themselves.

There won't be any casuals, at least not in a finely tuned 8v8 group roaming around, not due to steathers, but due to the premade elite 8v8 groups that will be rolling any PUG 8mans and any small mans as they cruise the frontiers. The buff disparity between casuals (those without full buffs) and those in 8mans with full buffs will only make the gap wider and increase this disparity.

The combined forces potions are good, but I don't see why not just make them as good as casted buffs? I know what you mean.

Tue 2 Oct 2018 3:37 AM by Shadanwolf

Have you played a stealther and actually tried to kill people ? It is not easy.
Have you looked to see how many are playing stealthers ? It is very low.
Leveling them is difficult vs other more group friendly classes. MY WORRY is what I perceive is the low damage output for assassins. Reciently archer damage was nerffed. Certainly a dis-incentive to level and play one.Especially since BG's are not a focus....you will have to level all the way to 50 to really starting rvring with a class that just had its damage reduced.

Tue 2 Oct 2018 3:59 AM by defiasbandit

Shadanwolf wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Oct 2018 3:37 AM
Have you played a stealther and actually tried to kill people ? It is not easy.
Have you looked to see how many are playing stealthers ? It is very low.
Leveling them is difficult vs other more group friendly classes. MY WORRY is what I perceive is the low damage output for assassins. Reciently archer damage was nerffed. Certainly a dis-incentive to level and play one.Especially since BG's are not a focus....you will have to level all the way to 50 to really starting rvring with a class that just had its damage reduced.

I can see your point, but typical Luri nightshades have 1700hp with 1k+ crits. I just don't recall it being like that back in the day. Especially not at every milegate or main road. Also consider the stealth group potential etc.. It can be concerning.

Tue 2 Oct 2018 5:00 AM by Joc

Back in the day buffbots were a thing. This means a lot trying to survive against a stealther.

Tue 2 Oct 2018 7:27 AM by Falken

Nerf em, stealthers are just greedy selfish players at their core.

Nerf them so hard that they either just quit or roll a real class.

Tue 2 Oct 2018 2:30 PM by Cythraul

Yeah like bonedancers and necros and animists! Every stealther should reroll as one of these immediately!

Tue 2 Oct 2018 3:38 PM by poisonclover

I do remember a time when a caster had a chance to quickcast a root,stun,mez after a stealthier engaged. Your dying in two hits maybe 3 if they miss mainhand on second swing.

problem is the CC, way to many people taking advantage of side stuns by strafing in combat, the amount of people doing this now adays is absurd. I just watched a video of a ranger... not once pull his bow out, just ran through, strafed until his side stun landed and that was gg.

The amount of CC is this game was always an issue. I always suggested losing Stoicsm and all the cc reductions and just make all CC a flat time. Freeing up Realm Points for classes that could definitely use something else instead of DET etc etc. Reactionary and positional stuns could be lets say 1 second longer, but the window to land these needs to be smaller, IE: spamming side styles until they land while u strafe and run through people, this should never be a thing and its the norm now.

group purge and SoS need to be Removed all together. Insta amnesia needs to have range reduces and not AE, it is the most ridiculous spell in the game, Befuddle and the other spells of the like need to work on pets, they need to give a chance of them attacking there owner .Would make a minstrel think twice about running a high level pet.

insta ae Mez, Insta ae stun, insta stun in general shouldn't be a thing at all. the duration on these needs to dropped to 4 seconds all across the board. Castable stun needs its cast time Increased by 1 second and power cost The same as it is on the cleric making it not cost efficient at all to sit back and just stun everything.

in essence I believe CC is the reason a lot of classes are forced to buy specific Realm abilities, And are forced to Spec a specific line for an 8-9 second CC ( IE: Dragonfang ) Slash infs are non existent because of one Op Style

So I went off the stealthier issue, but my point is simply this, being on the receiving end of a Perf/Stunning stab or backstab.. nobody should die before the duration of the stun wears off.

reducing the timer on purge, I guess could be a thing as well, but at the end of the day, you should never ever be forced to spec a specific line, or forced to buy potions for buffs, or have to spend your well earned Realm points on something just to make you viable in RvR.

Clearly this is solely in my opinion only,

-Remove buff potions or Add NPC buff merchants
-revisit CC in its whole
- positional styles window to hit needs to be reduced across the board, Straffing needs to lower your chance to Hit drastically
-self buffing classes need to get there intended edge back, or reworked to the point where there buffs are a tad better

Tue 2 Oct 2018 3:51 PM by Exploder

I would consider nerfing/removing dodger and also lowering the dual wield penalty on shield (as well as DW to evade, 2h to parry, etc for consistency). I can't tell you how many times I've fought an assassin only to see that they have a 45-50% chance to dodge my attacks. Against dual wield the chances are cut in half, but there's no reason you have to punish 1h tanks where 1) their block chance is cut in HALF by DW and 2) can only land a hit 50% of the time. I know some of you guys aren't going to like this, but assassins should NOT be able to toe to toe shield tanks/hybrids unless they land the whole perf chain.

I'm not sure if this will change the amount of stealthers we are seeing as of late - or if it is even an accurate representation of what we will see on live. It should hopefully bring the assassin archetype back in line to where it should be.

Tue 2 Oct 2018 6:31 PM by defiasbandit

poisonclover wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Oct 2018 3:38 PM
I do remember a time when a caster had a chance to quickcast a root,stun,mez after a stealthier engaged. Your dying in two hits maybe 3 if they miss mainhand on second swing.

problem is the CC, way to many people taking advantage of side stuns by strafing in combat, the amount of people doing this now adays is absurd. I just watched a video of a ranger... not once pull his bow out, just ran through, strafed until his side stun landed and that was gg.

The amount of CC is this game was always an issue. I always suggested losing Stoicsm and all the cc reductions and just make all CC a flat time. Freeing up Realm Points for classes that could definitely use something else instead of DET etc etc. Reactionary and positional stuns could be lets say 1 second longer, but the window to land these needs to be smaller, IE: spamming side styles until they land while u strafe and run through people, this should never be a thing and its the norm now.

group purge and SoS need to be Removed all together. Insta amnesia needs to have range reduces and not AE, it is the most ridiculous spell in the game, Befuddle and the other spells of the like need to work on pets, they need to give a chance of them attacking there owner .Would make a minstrel think twice about running a high level pet.

insta ae Mez, Insta ae stun, insta stun in general shouldn't be a thing at all. the duration on these needs to dropped to 4 seconds all across the board. Castable stun needs its cast time Increased by 1 second and power cost The same as it is on the cleric making it not cost efficient at all to sit back and just stun everything.

in essence I believe CC is the reason a lot of classes are forced to buy specific Realm abilities, And are forced to Spec a specific line for an 8-9 second CC ( IE: Dragonfang ) Slash infs are non existent because of one Op Style

So I went off the stealthier issue, but my point is simply this, being on the receiving end of a Perf/Stunning stab or backstab.. nobody should die before the duration of the stun wears off.

reducing the timer on purge, I guess could be a thing as well, but at the end of the day, you should never ever be forced to spec a specific line, or forced to buy potions for buffs, or have to spend your well earned Realm points on something just to make you viable in RvR.

Clearly this is solely in my opinion only,

-Remove buff potions or Add NPC buff merchants
-revisit CC in its whole
- positional styles window to hit needs to be reduced across the board, Straffing needs to lower your chance to Hit drastically
-self buffing classes need to get there intended edge back, or reworked to the point where there buffs are a tad better

So much truth here. Insane abilities like SoS, group purge, 2300 insta amnesia, instastuns.

All bad for the game, but I doubt they get changed much since each realm gets such cheese.

I think casted stuns are awful in DAOC. No counterplay. Purge is 30 min cd, yet a total must.

Trying to quickcast root a stealther on this server is usually not viable.

Tue 2 Oct 2018 7:55 PM by Shadanwolf

Exploder wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Oct 2018 3:51 PM
I would consider nerfing/removing dodger and also lowering the dual wield penalty on shield (as well as DW to evade, 2h to parry, etc for consistency). I can't tell you how many times I've fought an assassin only to see that they have a 45-50% chance to dodge my attacks. Against dual wield the chances are cut in half, but there's no reason you have to punish 1h tanks where 1) their block chance is cut in HALF by DW and 2) can only land a hit 50% of the time. I know some of you guys aren't going to like this, but assassins should NOT be able to toe to toe shield tanks/hybrids unless they land the whole perf chain.

I'm not sure if this will change the amount of stealthers we are seeing as of late - or if it is even an accurate representation of what we will see on live. It should hopefully bring the assassin archetype back in line to where it should be.

Are you playing the same game I am ? Stealthers are one of of the least played classes. Unlike some casters they don't have an endless mez.They don't have an all powerful stun they can cast from distant locations..If we want a vanilla game, with minimal diversity it won't be a game I will be playing.

Tue 2 Oct 2018 8:44 PM by defiasbandit

Shadanwolf wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Oct 2018 7:55 PM
Exploder wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Oct 2018 3:51 PM
I would consider nerfing/removing dodger and also lowering the dual wield penalty on shield (as well as DW to evade, 2h to parry, etc for consistency). I can't tell you how many times I've fought an assassin only to see that they have a 45-50% chance to dodge my attacks. Against dual wield the chances are cut in half, but there's no reason you have to punish 1h tanks where 1) their block chance is cut in HALF by DW and 2) can only land a hit 50% of the time. I know some of you guys aren't going to like this, but assassins should NOT be able to toe to toe shield tanks/hybrids unless they land the whole perf chain.

I'm not sure if this will change the amount of stealthers we are seeing as of late - or if it is even an accurate representation of what we will see on live. It should hopefully bring the assassin archetype back in line to where it should be.

Are you playing the same game I am ? Stealthers are one of of the least played classes. Unlike some casters they don't have an endless mez.They don't have an all powerful stun they can cast from distant locations..If we want a vanilla game, with minimal diversity it won't be a game I will be playing.

Are you playing the same server as I am. Casted stuns are pretty unfair I agree.

Tue 2 Oct 2018 8:58 PM by FrackinReavers

Stealth classes overtuned here.