can you make assassins and bow players more group friendly?

as it stands now- pve grouping in this shard is incredibly frustrating for assassins and bow characters.
for assassins add for PVE only
PBAE poisons such that the dots tick on all mobs centered around the assassin
and for bow players

add a PVE volley with a 2-3 draw time that does AE damage comparable to either rapid fire or a reg bow shot.

its a shame that only healers/buffs/bombs and shields get groups.

Thu 30 Jul 2020 9:18 PM by Cadebrennus

A lot of Archers' group unfriendliness is on the Archer players themselves. Read my Ranger guide for tips on Visi group play.

The Drunken Ranger’s Guide to Drunken Rangery
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2902

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 12 Nov 2018 11:37 AM
Friendly Visis
BE USEFUL. If you are part of a battle involving Visible (Visis) classes, don’t hang out and be stealthed most of the time because you’re afraid to die. It’s a video game. You will not actually die. Unstealth and shoot something. Melee something if it’s close to you. BE USEFUL. There is nothing worse than running in a Visi group, being outnumbered by the enemy, and knowing that the 4+ stealthers nearby could have evened the odds but they did not unstealth because they were afraid to. Shoot your damn bow. Side stun something. Snare/hinder someone. Rapid Fire the hell out of the enemy casters to prevent them from casting. /assist targets, whether they are Melee or Casters. BE USEFUL.

Thu 30 Jul 2020 9:54 PM by Helwyr

It isn't just this shard, those class types have always been undesirable in PvE groups throughout DAoC history. With XP item drops what this shard has done that previous versions of DAoC did not, is make it fairly easy to level these classes solo. It's really not frustrating at all level these classes on Phoenix, unless you wanted to do group PvE for the fun of it with an Assassin or Archer in which case you picked the wrong class.

Thu 30 Jul 2020 11:50 PM by daytonchambers

Personally I think the rogue type classes should have the ability to start fires for regen purposes like the tinderboxes.

It fits into the archetype as well as giving them a desirable tool for grouping

Fri 31 Jul 2020 3:57 PM by punahou

Helwyr wrote: ↑
Thu 30 Jul 2020 9:54 PM
It isn't just this shard, those class types have always been undesirable in PvE groups throughout DAoC history. With XP item drops what this shard has done that previous versions of DAoC did not, is make it fairly easy to level these classes solo. It's really not frustrating at all level these classes on Phoenix, unless you wanted to do group PvE for the fun of it with an Assassin or Archer in which case you picked the wrong class.

FAIRLY EASY? its 3 weeks and im level 42

Fri 31 Jul 2020 4:00 PM by punahou

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Thu 30 Jul 2020 9:18 PM
A lot of Archers' group unfriendliness is on the Archer players themselves. Read my Ranger guide for tips on Visi group play.

The Drunken Ranger’s Guide to Drunken Rangery
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2902

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 12 Nov 2018 11:37 AM
Friendly Visis
BE USEFUL. If you are part of a battle involving Visible (Visis) classes, don’t hang out and be stealthed most of the time because you’re afraid to die. It’s a video game. You will not actually die. Unstealth and shoot something. Melee something if it’s close to you. BE USEFUL. There is nothing worse than running in a Visi group, being outnumbered by the enemy, and knowing that the 4+ stealthers nearby could have evened the odds but they did not unstealth because they were afraid to. Shoot your damn bow. Side stun something. Snare/hinder someone. Rapid Fire the hell out of the enemy casters to prevent them from casting. /assist targets, whether they are Melee or Casters. BE USEFUL.

so this is for PVE-- im not converend with PVP as Im have a hard time getting to 50; at which I can solo.

The journey to 50 on this server is terrible for assassins and bows. Adding good ae damage for pve only would allow these classes to get groups; or at least make soloing easier by allowing thse classes to kill multiple mobs

Fri 31 Jul 2020 4:38 PM by daytonchambers

punahou wrote: ↑
Fri 31 Jul 2020 4:00 PM
so this is for PVE-- im not converend with PVP as Im have a hard time getting to 50; at which I can solo.

The journey to 50 on this server is terrible for assassins and bows. Adding good ae damage for pve only would allow these classes to get groups; or at least make soloing easier by allowing thse classes to kill multiple mobs

my 2c:

I have leveled five stealther characters to 50 on this server. Three in Midgard, and two in Hibernia. We do not need an aoe gimmick for pve any more than a light tank needs one.

Let me first say that yes some classes which make group leveling go much faster are more desirable than others, and buffs & heals will also be desired for pretty much the same reason, they make the process go faster. This issue is not unique to rogues, though.

I can't count how many times I saw a tank class leveling with a 2-hand weapon and refusing to spec or use a shield for group XP. That guy has a viable tool for group play yet refuses to do so, and then bitches about how he can't get a group later on. If you can pull from range as an archer, have a stack or three of the crappiest flight arrows for being a reliable puller. If you're a sin then don't waste spec on stealth poisons or critical strikes when none of those abilities will be of much use in a fast-paced group. Make yourself an asset to a group and not a liability.

The server basically allows infinite respecs as you level, and to not take advantage of this and optimize yourself for a group simply means that you don't WANT to be group friendly. And this being a social game means that people will remember this about you and say "nah, fuck that dood" when they see you in LFG trying to find a group.

For me, at no point was it impossible to get a group for faster leveling as either an archer or a sin. Below level 20 most groups will take practically anyone, and so long as you pull your weight and contribute positively to that group/groups people will remember you and you'll have a much easier time getting groups past level 20 for this reason alone. It's a social game, so be sociable and you will find success regardless of what class you play.

Fri 31 Jul 2020 5:29 PM by gotwqqd

Leveling is a joke
And as soon as you hit 35
You kill mobs that drop items in frontiers
Turn in items eggs feathers
And always get the two rvr tasks mixed in

Not only will your leveling go quickly you should be RR3 @50

Fri 31 Jul 2020 8:13 PM by Forlornhope

Bow classes are amazing solo levelers, I've done two hunters and a ranger to 50. Other than aoe dot/kite classes they're probably the fastest solo levelers in the game. They're at least some of the most efficient levelers to be sure. With the addition of the bonuses you get from being a class that's not really group friendly there's already some incentive to have these classes in your group. The problem, like most things in this game, is not the classes it's the player base. No amount of retweaking is going to make a group of people pick an inf/sb/ns over any sort of aoe dps. All people want is to level as fast as possible in the most efficient way possible.

Fri 31 Jul 2020 8:38 PM by gotwqqd

Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Fri 31 Jul 2020 8:13 PM
Bow classes are amazing solo levelers, I've done two hunters and a ranger to 50. Other than aoe dot/kite classes they're probably the fastest solo levelers in the game. They're at least some of the most efficient levelers to be sure. With the addition of the bonuses you get from being a class that's not really group friendly there's already some incentive to have these classes in your group. The problem, like most things in this game, is not the classes it's the player base. No amount of retweaking is going to make a group of people pick an inf/sb/ns over any sort of aoe dps. All people want is to level as fast as possible in the most efficient way possible.

this

Most orange mobs shouldn’t reach you

Fri 31 Jul 2020 9:34 PM by punahou

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Fri 31 Jul 2020 4:38 PM
punahou wrote: ↑
Fri 31 Jul 2020 4:00 PM
so this is for PVE-- im not converend with PVP as Im have a hard time getting to 50; at which I can solo.

The journey to 50 on this server is terrible for assassins and bows. Adding good ae damage for pve only would allow these classes to get groups; or at least make soloing easier by allowing thse classes to kill multiple mobs

my 2c:

I have leveled five stealther characters to 50 on this server. Three in Midgard, and two in Hibernia. We do not need an aoe gimmick for pve any more than a light tank needs one.

Let me first say that yes some classes which make group leveling go much faster are more desirable than others, and buffs & heals will also be desired for pretty much the same reason, they make the process go faster. This issue is not unique to rogues, though.

I can't count how many times I saw a tank class leveling with a 2-hand weapon and refusing to spec or use a shield for group XP. That guy has a viable tool for group play yet refuses to do so, and then bitches about how he can't get a group later on. If you can pull from range as an archer, have a stack or three of the crappiest flight arrows for being a reliable puller. If you're a sin then don't waste spec on stealth poisons or critical strikes when none of those abilities will be of much use in a fast-paced group. Make yourself an asset to a group and not a liability.

The server basically allows infinite respecs as you level, and to not take advantage of this and optimize yourself for a group simply means that you don't WANT to be group friendly. And this being a social game means that people will remember this about you and say "nah, fuck that dood" when they see you in LFG trying to find a group.

For me, at no point was it impossible to get a group for faster leveling as either an archer or a sin. Below level 20 most groups will take practically anyone, and so long as you pull your weight and contribute positively to that group/groups people will remember you and you'll have a much easier time getting groups past level 20 for this reason alone. It's a social game, so be sociable and you will find success regardless of what class you play.

1. you sound like you are lecturing me- i dont like that-- do not ever presume you know more than someone else
1a. i know extactly how to spec to be group friendly as an assassin and good thing Ive never been a fan of the CS line at all. Ive been merfil/szerker since before this live was released, in fact Ive made it work with blades in a NS as well.

2. solo leveling as a bow user is still a lot longer to level than being in a bomb group-- not even a comparison. It doenst matter if the mobs die before they get to you-- 1 at a time is long vs 6+ at time every +/- 5 seconds for so

3.soloing as an assassin is even more painful

4. so yes gimmicks as you put it would level the playing field-- at least groups would view these classes as viable subsitutes to SM/ANI/ICE WIZ, and if not, then the classes could level faster

Its frustrating to see people who you saw in the starter zones level 48- 50 by the next day.

Fri 31 Jul 2020 10:20 PM by Helwyr

punahou wrote: ↑
Fri 31 Jul 2020 3:57 PM
Helwyr wrote: ↑
Thu 30 Jul 2020 9:54 PM
It isn't just this shard, those class types have always been undesirable in PvE groups throughout DAoC history. With XP item drops what this shard has done that previous versions of DAoC did not, is make it fairly easy to level these classes solo. It's really not frustrating at all level these classes on Phoenix, unless you wanted to do group PvE for the fun of it with an Assassin or Archer in which case you picked the wrong class.

FAIRLY EASY? its 3 weeks and im level 42

The fairly easy way is to just follow the exp item hand ins, if you can solo an orange con mobs you should get to 50 in a reasonable time. The bad news is that getting to 50 is only part of the road to an RvR ready character, as you now have to build a template which can be expensive for an Assassin, and not cheap for an archer either. You'll also need loads of potions because in RvR you won't be getting groups with buff classes either, so potions are a must. So the smart thing to do is roll another character that is a great PvE farming character to load up on gold. Now you can use this farming character not only to build up gold for your stealther's template, but also farm exp items, or just buy them off the market. Now getting to 50 will be really easy. If you're trying to level a stealther solo by just the exp you get from killing mobs (not the exp item hand ins) yeah that will be slow and frustrating.

I'd stop comparing to bomb groups, it's not just stealthers that won't get into those groups, plenty of visible classes and specs won't be desired in such groups either.

Fri 31 Jul 2020 10:22 PM by Sixin2082

punahou wrote: ↑
Fri 31 Jul 2020 9:34 PM
1. you sound like you are lecturing me- i dont like that-- do not ever presume you know more than someone else

You sound like you're lecturing them.

Fri 31 Jul 2020 10:43 PM by daytonchambers

punahou wrote: ↑
Fri 31 Jul 2020 9:34 PM
1. you sound like you are lecturing me- i dont like that-- do not ever presume you know more than someone else
1a. i know extactly how to spec to be group friendly as an assassin and good thing Ive never been a fan of the CS line at all. Ive been merfil/szerker since before this live was released, in fact Ive made it work with blades in a NS as well.

Well... I guess you could say I was lecturing, as you clearly seem to need one if it's taking you that long to get to 50 and rather than adjust your play you want the devs to add crap to make it easier for you. I managed to hit 50 much, much faster than that on a sneak, so apparently I DO know more on this topic than you.

I tried to offer some advice and you get pissy with me - i don't like that- do not ever presume you deserve shit added to the game simply because you don't want to travel down the same road that every other sneak in the game has had to walk. ( If you think that sounds condescending, then go back and re-read what you wrote to me. Pot, meet kettle.)

Good luck to you, sounds like you are gonna need it. I just hope you aren't playing in my preferred realm

Fri 31 Jul 2020 10:59 PM by daytonchambers

Helwyr wrote: ↑
Fri 31 Jul 2020 10:20 PM
The fairly easy way is to just follow the exp item hand ins, if you can solo an orange con mobs you should get to 50 in a reasonable time. .................. Now getting to 50 will be really easy. If you're trying to level a stealther solo by just the exp you get from killing mobs (not the exp item hand ins) yeah that will be slow and frustrating.

I'd stop comparing to bomb groups, it's not just stealthers that won't get into those groups, plenty of visible classes and specs won't be desired in such groups either.

This, 100%

I took a hunter from 1 to 50 solo in a little under 35 played hours this way, and I was just cruising without trying to power my way through as fast as possible (no tinders at times, no buff pots). I followed the XP items and killed at least two tasks worth of each, starting with whatever mob type had a 200% xp bonus, then a couple tasks on each 150% bonus mob type, focusing on those that dropped XP items.

Turned in my tokens for the day up to tier 5 if I had them, and after level 35 started to turn in snow as well for RvR task credit for the free arpees and extra XP. Then I logged, or played a different char until all the tasks reset.

It went incredibly fast, and you can go even faster if you are a Midgard Hunter thanks to the amazing little priest pet you can charm around lv 19-20

Sat 1 Aug 2020 7:50 PM by Noashakra

Simple. I level both my ranger and my NS alone. I am not blaming people who don't want to group those classes. Pot buffs and endurance, tinder, and I was chaining yellow/oranges, giving task items, and token I had with my other toons. I hit 50 in less than 24h.

Thu 13 Aug 2020 9:29 AM by Centenario

Noashakra wrote: Simple. I level both my ranger and my NS alone. I am not blaming people who don't want to group those classes. Pot buffs and endurance, tinder, and I was chaining yellow/oranges, giving task items, and token I had with my other toons. I hit 50 in less than 24h.

I agree it's easy to level them when you know what you are doing.
I know Albion very well, I know mobs that drop task items, I know their level, I check the current task 100%-150%-200% bonus. This all makes it easy.

If I would go to hib or mid, I would be lost, and would have to ask the advice, would have to check the wiki, etc... I would lose a lot of time and motivation.

Would be nice to have a tool suggesting exp spot for each realm, when you put the criterias:
- task item loot mandatory yes/no
- Bonus minimum: 100%?
- Mob Vulnerable to: Slash?
- Mob Packed mandatory yes/no