When a rank 9 caster with pd5 and purge up dies to a rank 2 inf, there is something wrong. The caster used heart of legion and a heal pot and still died after purgeing the CD stun immediately. No counterplay. This needs to be adjusted. Assassin dmg is still way overtuned.
assassin dmg is overtuned and needs an adjustment
Started 14 Jul 2020
by
Bry
in
RvR
Tue 14 Jul 2020 5:14 PM
by
Noashakra
Bry wrote: ↑Tue 14 Jul 2020 4:49 PMWhen a rank 9 caster with pd5 and purge up dies to a rank 2 inf, there is something wrong. The caster used heart of legion and a heal pot and still died after purgeing the CD stun immediately. No counterplay. This needs to be adjusted. Assassin dmg is still way overtuned.
Caster need to be nerfed. PD on a caster is heresy, and with LT it's insane. Pets have to much utility combined to most of the caster having a drain and moc make it braindead and not funny.
Please nerf casters.
Tue 14 Jul 2020 6:33 PM
by
ExcretusMaximus
Don't you know that a class that can choose its opponents and vanish if they're losing also needs to be able to drop heavy tanks in seconds if they're going to be successful? If anything, assassins need MORE DAMAGE if they're going to have any chance of being useful. Shit, let's put them on the Warrior damage table, triple the value of Viper, and let them stealth after not being hit for 2 seconds.
Then, and only then, will we discuss if they are properly balanced!
Then, and only then, will we discuss if they are properly balanced!
Tue 14 Jul 2020 11:07 PM
by
gotwqqd
My opinion
Assassin damage needs an increase
But at the cost of poison application.
Poisons can only be applied to equipped weapons, and if put in bags lose poison
OR
Weapon swapping needs a significant penalty
Assassin damage needs an increase
But at the cost of poison application.
Poisons can only be applied to equipped weapons, and if put in bags lose poison
OR
Weapon swapping needs a significant penalty
Wed 15 Jul 2020 12:11 AM
by
Kwall0311
gotwqqd wrote: ↑Tue 14 Jul 2020 11:07 PMMy opinion
Assassin damage needs an increase
But at the cost of poison application.
Poisons can only be applied to equipped weapons, and if put in bags lose poison
OR
Weapon swapping needs a significant penalty
I think an immunity to the specific poison/debuff after purge would be more reasonable than not being able to swap. Mostly for adds/multiple targets sake. That way there would actually be some thought in when and what poison to use paired with before/after stun etc. But then again, that changes the entire principal of the class now so that will never happen.
Wed 15 Jul 2020 2:29 AM
by
Helwyr
This must be this week's thread to throw out crazy or just plain bad ideas. Here's my crazy idea I might actually support. Remove Purge from the game and heavily tone down ALL CC.
Wed 15 Jul 2020 3:47 AM
by
Lokkjim
Kwall0311 wrote: ↑Wed 15 Jul 2020 12:11 AMgotwqqd wrote: ↑Tue 14 Jul 2020 11:07 PMMy opinion
Assassin damage needs an increase
But at the cost of poison application.
Poisons can only be applied to equipped weapons, and if put in bags lose poison
OR
Weapon swapping needs a significant penalty
I think an immunity to the specific poison/debuff after purge would be more reasonable than not being able to swap. Mostly for adds/multiple targets sake. That way there would actually be some thought in when and what poison to use paired with before/after stun etc. But then again, that changes the entire principal of the class now so that will never happen.
If that was the case, the same should go for champion debuffs or any class with instant debuffs and I bet a lot of people wouldn't like that.
Wed 15 Jul 2020 3:53 AM
by
gotwqqd
Maybe they should have immunityLokkjim wrote: ↑Wed 15 Jul 2020 3:47 AMKwall0311 wrote: ↑Wed 15 Jul 2020 12:11 AMgotwqqd wrote: ↑Tue 14 Jul 2020 11:07 PMMy opinion
Assassin damage needs an increase
But at the cost of poison application.
Poisons can only be applied to equipped weapons, and if put in bags lose poison
OR
Weapon swapping needs a significant penalty
I think an immunity to the specific poison/debuff after purge would be more reasonable than not being able to swap. Mostly for adds/multiple targets sake. That way there would actually be some thought in when and what poison to use paired with before/after stun etc. But then again, that changes the entire principal of the class now so that will never happen.
If that was the case, the same should go for champion debuffs or any class with instant debuffs and I bet a lot of people wouldn't like that.
But what’s the cooldown of champ debuff?
Assassins have none
Wed 15 Jul 2020 3:57 AM
by
ExcretusMaximus
All of their offensive abilities are 20s recast.
Wed 15 Jul 2020 4:55 AM
by
protege
Lotta people who don’t play assassins in here calling for nerfs lmao. Play one, kill any solo spec caster (2 forms of cc with concentration OR MoC), minstrel, light tank of equal rr, champ of equal rr, skald, hero, warrior, etc. then come talk to me.
Sounds like people who are group spec for rvr complaining about dying to someone who is exclusively specced for solo.
Also, Lifebane has been nerfed TWICE on this server. Quit QQing and learn to play
Sounds like people who are group spec for rvr complaining about dying to someone who is exclusively specced for solo.
Also, Lifebane has been nerfed TWICE on this server. Quit QQing and learn to play
Wed 15 Jul 2020 5:04 AM
by
dbeattie71
A caster died to a class designed to kill casters, news at 11!
Wed 15 Jul 2020 7:53 AM
by
Noashakra
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑Wed 15 Jul 2020 5:04 AMA caster died to a class designed to kill casters, news at 11!
It's ridiculous to read, especially when most caster have a brain dead moc drain every 10mn, unless they can stand up and spam one key like the necro or the bd.
And lol, the poison swap is the asn gameplay, it's like saying remove weapon switch from the hero...
Poisons are not instant, you need to apply them one by one and you can't reaply them in combat to weapons. That's why you have them pre applied in your inventory. Try to manage an inventory of 10+ weapons and let's see if it's easy. If somone purge early in combat and you don't reaply your poisons, you are litterally dead (that why a lot of people don't stun target, because purge the poisons and the stun is bad for you). So how immunity would be a good idea? People would blow purge after the 3/4 poisoins are applied and you can /rel...
Fri 17 Jul 2020 5:11 PM
by
Northztorm
I partly agree that something must be done about their damage output, not only that with them hitting for 100 in damage with viper 5.
they also have an anytime duel wield bleed style ( 50 ) which hits for about 40 damage each tick, it is just to much.
Just my opinion.
they also have an anytime duel wield bleed style ( 50 ) which hits for about 40 damage each tick, it is just to much.
Just my opinion.
Fri 17 Jul 2020 6:22 PM
by
Lokkjim
Northztorm wrote: ↑Fri 17 Jul 2020 5:11 PMI partly agree that something must be done about their damage output, not only that with them hitting for 100 in damage with viper 5.
they also have an anytime duel wield bleed style ( 50 ) which hits for about 40 damage each tick, it is just to much.
Just my opinion.
You do understand that assassins spend 30 realm points to get to 100 dot damage, right? This only adds 50 points of damage to a dot that can be cured/resisted/purged/reduced. Those 30 points can be spent by almost anyone to get the same 50 extra points of damage. And that bleed style in dual wield is a frontal that gives 13 bleed damage, so they have to hit around 4 to 5 times to get to the 50 bleed cap and it's a 50 spec to get, which gimps them in other areas unless they are a high RR.
Sat 18 Jul 2020 3:30 AM
by
Helwyr
There was one point in the entire history of DAoC where Assassins were genuinely overpowered, it was right at the beginning prior to even epic armor when Assassins, and especially Shadowblades, could one shot PA casters and stay in stealth. Every claim of them being overpowered since has been BS or missing what's actually overpowered, like buffbots and instead blaming assassins. The truth of the matter is some MMO players just hate the assassin/stealther/rogue archetype, and no matter how much the class is weakened, the moment those people die to one there will be calls for more nerfs, they will never be satisfied until Assassins (and likely Archers as well) are basically removed from the game.
Sat 18 Jul 2020 1:34 PM
by
Noashakra
Lokkjim wrote: ↑Fri 17 Jul 2020 6:22 PMNorthztorm wrote: ↑Fri 17 Jul 2020 5:11 PMI partly agree that something must be done about their damage output, not only that with them hitting for 100 in damage with viper 5.
they also have an anytime duel wield bleed style ( 50 ) which hits for about 40 damage each tick, it is just to much.
Just my opinion.
You do understand that assassins spend 30 realm points to get to 100 dot damage, right? This only adds 50 points of damage to a dot that can be cured/resisted/purged/reduced. Those 30 points can be spent by almost anyone to get the same 50 extra points of damage. And that bleed style in dual wield is a frontal that gives 13 bleed damage, so they have to hit around 4 to 5 times to get to the 50 bleed cap and it's a 50 spec to get, which gimps them in other areas unless they are a high RR.
Only the infiltrator has access to this on top...
Sat 18 Jul 2020 1:49 PM
by
gromet12
Helwyr wrote: ↑Sat 18 Jul 2020 3:30 AMThere was one point in the entire history of DAoC where Assassins were genuinely overpowered, it was right at the beginning prior to even epic armor when Assassins, and especially Shadowblades, could one shot PA casters and stay in stealth. Every claim of them being overpowered since has been BS or missing what's actually overpowered, like buffbots and instead blaming assassins. The truth of the matter is some MMO players just hate the assassin/stealther/rogue archetype, and no matter how much the class is weakened, the moment those people die to one there will be calls for more nerfs, they will never be satisfied until Assassins (and likely Archers as well) are basically removed from the game.
Remove the defense penetration of DW and sins will whine like no other.
Sat 18 Jul 2020 2:25 PM
by
Noashakra
gromet12 wrote: ↑Sat 18 Jul 2020 1:49 PMHelwyr wrote: ↑Sat 18 Jul 2020 3:30 AMThere was one point in the entire history of DAoC where Assassins were genuinely overpowered, it was right at the beginning prior to even epic armor when Assassins, and especially Shadowblades, could one shot PA casters and stay in stealth. Every claim of them being overpowered since has been BS or missing what's actually overpowered, like buffbots and instead blaming assassins. The truth of the matter is some MMO players just hate the assassin/stealther/rogue archetype, and no matter how much the class is weakened, the moment those people die to one there will be calls for more nerfs, they will never be satisfied until Assassins (and likely Archers as well) are basically removed from the game.
Remove the defense penetration of DW and sins will whine like no other.
You think only the sins will complain ?
Sat 18 Jul 2020 11:00 PM
by
Amser
Lokkjim wrote: ↑Fri 17 Jul 2020 6:22 PMNorthztorm wrote: ↑Fri 17 Jul 2020 5:11 PMI partly agree that something must be done about their damage output, not only that with them hitting for 100 in damage with viper 5.
they also have an anytime duel wield bleed style ( 50 ) which hits for about 40 damage each tick, it is just to much.
Just my opinion.
You do understand that assassins spend 30 realm points to get to 100 dot damage, right? This only adds 50 points of damage to a dot that can be cured/resisted/purged/reduced. Those 30 points can be spent by almost anyone to get the same 50 extra points of damage. And that bleed style in dual wield is a frontal that gives 13 bleed damage, so they have to hit around 4 to 5 times to get to the 50 bleed cap and it's a 50 spec to get, which gimps them in other areas unless they are a high RR.
Remember you have to add resists as well. So the bleed actually gets capped at 37 Etc.
Sun 19 Jul 2020 1:12 AM
by
boridi
I recently perfed a valewalker for about 290 and garroted for 95. RR4 SB with 44+14 CS, capped str and skills, 4.2 mainhand, 2.4 offhand. And valewalkers use cloth.
Of course, my off hand does hit every time... for a whopping 25 or 30. And some of my perfs/backstabs land successfully with the mainhand but give a "too far away to attack" message on the offhand!
Of course, my off hand does hit every time... for a whopping 25 or 30. And some of my perfs/backstabs land successfully with the mainhand but give a "too far away to attack" message on the offhand!
Sun 19 Jul 2020 4:19 AM
by
pollojack
Yeah, solo pvp zone still had sins getting spanked by palys, bms, and mercs.
A caster losing to a melee that is already in melee range is kind of a given.
A caster losing to a melee that is already in melee range is kind of a given.
Mon 20 Jul 2020 7:13 AM
by
Jingo NZ
Assassins didn't need the change that applies con debuff before PA. It ups their 3 hit combo dmg so much.
The reason for the charge was assassin vs assassin fights but it ended up being a major dmg boost that was unwarranted.
Assassins were in a good place before that change.
The reason for the charge was assassin vs assassin fights but it ended up being a major dmg boost that was unwarranted.
Assassins were in a good place before that change.
Mon 20 Jul 2020 11:40 AM
by
Cadebrennus
Jingo NZ wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 7:13 AMAssassins didn't need the change that applies con debuff before PA. It ups their 3 hit combo dmg so much.
The reason for the charge was assassin vs assassin fights but it ended up being a major dmg boost that was unwarranted.
Assassins were in a good place before that change.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and Assassin players are the squeakiest of all. Just look at Live to see what they've wrought there with all of their squeaking.
Mon 20 Jul 2020 12:10 PM
by
Noashakra
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 11:40 AMJingo NZ wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 7:13 AMAssassins didn't need the change that applies con debuff before PA. It ups their 3 hit combo dmg so much.
The reason for the charge was assassin vs assassin fights but it ended up being a major dmg boost that was unwarranted.
Assassins were in a good place before that change.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and Assassin players are the squeakiest of all. Just look at Live to see what they've wrought there with all of their squeaking.
lol? I didn't see any asn ask for a buff. They gave us this without anyone asking. And yeah it's a buff overall, I will not deny it. But now if you PA and the poison resist (1 time out of 10, it's not small), you deal a lot less dmg and the fight is not starting in your favor.
It doesn't change a lot vs mages (you kill them fast anyway) or vs tanks and hybrids with shields. But don't forget that if you don't open with a PA, it's a nerf because of the lower consist value of the poison (especially for shadowzerk with close to no points in CS).
Mon 20 Jul 2020 8:18 PM
by
gotwqqd
Noashakra wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 12:10 PMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 11:40 AMJingo NZ wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 7:13 AMAssassins didn't need the change that applies con debuff before PA. It ups their 3 hit combo dmg so much.
The reason for the charge was assassin vs assassin fights but it ended up being a major dmg boost that was unwarranted.
Assassins were in a good place before that change.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and Assassin players are the squeakiest of all. Just look at Live to see what they've wrought there with all of their squeaking.
lol? I didn't see any asn ask for a buff.
Yea, right
Mon 20 Jul 2020 8:26 PM
by
Noashakra
gotwqqd wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 8:18 PMNoashakra wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 12:10 PMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 11:40 AMJingo NZ wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 7:13 AMAssassins didn't need the change that applies con debuff before PA. It ups their 3 hit combo dmg so much.
The reason for the charge was assassin vs assassin fights but it ended up being a major dmg boost that was unwarranted.
Assassins were in a good place before that change.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and Assassin players are the squeakiest of all. Just look at Live to see what they've wrought there with all of their squeaking.
lol? I didn't see any asn ask for a buff.
Yea, right
Show me where lol, lots of people playing asn actually said the asn didn't need a buff and where in a good place on the patch topic, and in many other threads before that.
Mon 20 Jul 2020 8:30 PM
by
Cadebrennus
Noashakra wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 8:26 PMgotwqqd wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 8:18 PMNoashakra wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 12:10 PMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 11:40 AMJingo NZ wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 7:13 AMAssassins didn't need the change that applies con debuff before PA. It ups their 3 hit combo dmg so much.
The reason for the charge was assassin vs assassin fights but it ended up being a major dmg boost that was unwarranted.
Assassins were in a good place before that change.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and Assassin players are the squeakiest of all. Just look at Live to see what they've wrought there with all of their squeaking.
lol? I didn't see any asn ask for a buff.
Yea, right
Show me where lol, lots of people playing asn actually said the asn didn't need a buff and where in a good place on the patch topic, and in many other threads before that.
You can start with the overwhelming whines of Assassin players regarding armor tables.
Mon 20 Jul 2020 8:43 PM
by
Noashakra
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 8:30 PMNoashakra wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 8:26 PMgotwqqd wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 8:18 PMNoashakra wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 12:10 PMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 11:40 AMJingo NZ wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 7:13 AMAssassins didn't need the change that applies con debuff before PA. It ups their 3 hit combo dmg so much.
The reason for the charge was assassin vs assassin fights but it ended up being a major dmg boost that was unwarranted.
Assassins were in a good place before that change.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and Assassin players are the squeakiest of all. Just look at Live to see what they've wrought there with all of their squeaking.
lol? I didn't see any asn ask for a buff.
Yea, right
Show me where lol, lots of people playing asn actually said the asn didn't need a buff and where in a good place on the patch topic, and in many other threads before that.
You can start with the overwhelming whines of Assassin players regarding armor tables.
it's more a hib nerf... I don't see how it's an assassin up...
Mon 20 Jul 2020 9:32 PM
by
gotwqqd
And more direct to the topic...the numerous posts about pa being pointless because of the con drop from poisons.Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 8:30 PMNoashakra wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 8:26 PMgotwqqd wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 8:18 PMNoashakra wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 12:10 PMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 11:40 AMJingo NZ wrote: ↑Mon 20 Jul 2020 7:13 AMAssassins didn't need the change that applies con debuff before PA. It ups their 3 hit combo dmg so much.
The reason for the charge was assassin vs assassin fights but it ended up being a major dmg boost that was unwarranted.
Assassins were in a good place before that change.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and Assassin players are the squeakiest of all. Just look at Live to see what they've wrought there with all of their squeaking.
lol? I didn't see any asn ask for a buff.
Yea, right
Show me where lol, lots of people playing asn actually said the asn didn't need a buff and where in a good place on the patch topic, and in many other threads before that.
You can start with the overwhelming whines of Assassin players regarding armor tables.
Tue 21 Jul 2020 5:44 PM
by
tama
Overall assasins have way too much in their favor on this server with Viper/Vanish/Con Debuff Changes/Easy Weapon Swap. Where the first 3 are not needed at all to be one of the strongest 1v1 classes.
Tue 21 Jul 2020 5:55 PM
by
Noashakra
Give us back dot at each swings lol... The easy weapon switch is ballanced by the fact you can't apply dot with each swing to increase your dps like crazy...tama wrote: ↑Tue 21 Jul 2020 5:44 PMOverall assasins have way too much in their favor on this server with Viper/Vanish/Con Debuff Changes/Easy Weapon Swap. Where the first 3 are not needed at all to be one of the strongest 1v1 classes.
why do they have too much with all the things they had on live?
I was against the PA buff, but the rest of what you wrote makes no sense.
Tue 21 Jul 2020 6:15 PM
by
Lokkjim
The Assassin is a character class common to many role-playing games, often but not always representing the historical Assassin or Ninja. Such characters typically combine combat ability with strong stealth skills, and specialise in defeating an enemy without becoming involved in a protracted melee.
^ definition of the assassin archetype
I can barely beat a hero as an inf, and that was only by vanishing after IP and stag, repoisoning, using first aid, and jumping back into the fight because they decided to stick around, and luckily no one added in. An assassin should be able to kill a class quickly, provided they aren't a tank. If you take away an assassin's ability to kill quickly, it makes them more vulnerable to adds which in turn would lead to more grouped stealthers. Assassins may complain about some things in the game, but there are far more complaints about stealth groups or zergs. So pick your poison I guess.
^ definition of the assassin archetype
I can barely beat a hero as an inf, and that was only by vanishing after IP and stag, repoisoning, using first aid, and jumping back into the fight because they decided to stick around, and luckily no one added in. An assassin should be able to kill a class quickly, provided they aren't a tank. If you take away an assassin's ability to kill quickly, it makes them more vulnerable to adds which in turn would lead to more grouped stealthers. Assassins may complain about some things in the game, but there are far more complaints about stealth groups or zergs. So pick your poison I guess.
Tue 21 Jul 2020 6:36 PM
by
Forlornhope
Lokkjim wrote: ↑Tue 21 Jul 2020 6:15 PMThe Assassin is a character class common to many role-playing games, often but not always representing the historical Assassin or Ninja. Such characters typically combine combat ability with strong stealth skills, and specialise in defeating an enemy without becoming involved in a protracted melee.
^ definition of the assassin archetype
I can barely beat a hero as an inf, and that was only by vanishing after IP and stag, repoisoning, using first aid, and jumping back into the fight because they decided to stick around, and luckily no one added in. An assassin should be able to kill a class quickly, provided they aren't a tank. If you take away an assassin's ability to kill quickly, it makes them more vulnerable to adds which in turn would lead to more grouped stealthers. Assassins may complain about some things in the game, but there are far more complaints about stealth groups or zergs. So pick your poison I guess.
I mean dude, if the guy had to blow stag and IP you put out enough DPS to kill him twice over before he did enough damage for you to vanish away. Assassins are fine.
Tue 21 Jul 2020 6:42 PM
by
Helwyr
tama wrote: ↑Tue 21 Jul 2020 5:44 PMOverall assasins have way too much in their favor on this server with Viper/Vanish/Con Debuff Changes/Easy Weapon Swap. Where the first 3 are not needed at all to be one of the strongest 1v1 classes.
If being a strong 1vs1 class counted for much everyone would be playing classes like Champions. Additionally the fact is there's a long list of classes for which 1vs1 is not likely going to result in a positive outcome for an Assassin. It's no mystery in actual RvR where the real overpowered classes come into play, and it's not any 1vs1 class, it's the synergy found in pre-made visible 8 man groups. In DAoC it's healing, CC, speed 6, and assisted damage which is overpowered, not anemic poisons and move like a crippled tortoise across the map stealth. People are not playing Assassins because they are overpowered, they play them for the style of gameplay, either the sneaky assassin type, the duelist crowd, or simply wanting to solo. The later only really being viable on a class with either stealth or speed 6 combined with some ability to kill another player.. So assassins, archers, minstrels, and skalds. Every other option is too vulnerable to 8 mans, especially if they are cheating and using radar.
Tue 21 Jul 2020 7:04 PM
by
Lokkjim
Forlornhope wrote: ↑Tue 21 Jul 2020 6:36 PMLokkjim wrote: ↑Tue 21 Jul 2020 6:15 PMThe Assassin is a character class common to many role-playing games, often but not always representing the historical Assassin or Ninja. Such characters typically combine combat ability with strong stealth skills, and specialise in defeating an enemy without becoming involved in a protracted melee.
^ definition of the assassin archetype
I can barely beat a hero as an inf, and that was only by vanishing after IP and stag, repoisoning, using first aid, and jumping back into the fight because they decided to stick around, and luckily no one added in. An assassin should be able to kill a class quickly, provided they aren't a tank. If you take away an assassin's ability to kill quickly, it makes them more vulnerable to adds which in turn would lead to more grouped stealthers. Assassins may complain about some things in the game, but there are far more complaints about stealth groups or zergs. So pick your poison I guess.
I mean dude, if the guy had to blow stag and IP you put out enough DPS to kill him twice over before he did enough damage for you to vanish away. Assassins are fine.
Let me add a little more perspective, it was an RR4 hero iirc, had purge 2, I'm assuming IP1 or IP2, I kept fighting after IP, but right when they popped stag, I vanished away. I don't usually fight heroes because I can't get through 2 lifebars before I'm dead. The only reason I jumped back on was because they searched for me during the 30 second timer, which I used to first aid and repoison. The only reason it wasn't a stalemate was that they decided to search for me because they were back up to 95/96% health. Even then, I only won the fight with 1% of my health left, as I only have first aid 1.
Tue 21 Jul 2020 7:11 PM
by
Noashakra
Don't forget most tanks solo are still group spec. And they some complain that they are losing some 1vs1 vs a class that is pure solo spec...
Tue 21 Jul 2020 8:16 PM
by
Forlornhope
Lokkjim wrote: ↑Tue 21 Jul 2020 7:04 PMForlornhope wrote: ↑Tue 21 Jul 2020 6:36 PMLokkjim wrote: ↑Tue 21 Jul 2020 6:15 PMThe Assassin is a character class common to many role-playing games, often but not always representing the historical Assassin or Ninja. Such characters typically combine combat ability with strong stealth skills, and specialise in defeating an enemy without becoming involved in a protracted melee.
^ definition of the assassin archetype
I can barely beat a hero as an inf, and that was only by vanishing after IP and stag, repoisoning, using first aid, and jumping back into the fight because they decided to stick around, and luckily no one added in. An assassin should be able to kill a class quickly, provided they aren't a tank. If you take away an assassin's ability to kill quickly, it makes them more vulnerable to adds which in turn would lead to more grouped stealthers. Assassins may complain about some things in the game, but there are far more complaints about stealth groups or zergs. So pick your poison I guess.
I mean dude, if the guy had to blow stag and IP you put out enough DPS to kill him twice over before he did enough damage for you to vanish away. Assassins are fine.
Let me add a little more perspective, it was an RR4 hero iirc, had purge 2, I'm assuming IP1 or IP2, I kept fighting after IP, but right when they popped stag, I vanished away. I don't usually fight heroes because I can't get through 2 lifebars before I'm dead. The only reason I jumped back on was because they searched for me during the 30 second timer, which I used to first aid and repoison. The only reason it wasn't a stalemate was that they decided to search for me because they were back up to 95/96% health. Even then, I only won the fight with 1% of my health left, as I only have first aid 1.
I still don't really see a problem, he's a heavy tank who supposedly has the best defense and most health in the game but he still blew IP and stag and you still won. You put out enough DPS to basically kill him twice but still think you need more dps? That's crazy man lol
Tue 21 Jul 2020 8:42 PM
by
Noashakra
Forlornhope wrote: ↑Tue 21 Jul 2020 8:16 PMLokkjim wrote: ↑Tue 21 Jul 2020 7:04 PMForlornhope wrote: ↑Tue 21 Jul 2020 6:36 PMLokkjim wrote: ↑Tue 21 Jul 2020 6:15 PMThe Assassin is a character class common to many role-playing games, often but not always representing the historical Assassin or Ninja. Such characters typically combine combat ability with strong stealth skills, and specialise in defeating an enemy without becoming involved in a protracted melee.
^ definition of the assassin archetype
I can barely beat a hero as an inf, and that was only by vanishing after IP and stag, repoisoning, using first aid, and jumping back into the fight because they decided to stick around, and luckily no one added in. An assassin should be able to kill a class quickly, provided they aren't a tank. If you take away an assassin's ability to kill quickly, it makes them more vulnerable to adds which in turn would lead to more grouped stealthers. Assassins may complain about some things in the game, but there are far more complaints about stealth groups or zergs. So pick your poison I guess.
I mean dude, if the guy had to blow stag and IP you put out enough DPS to kill him twice over before he did enough damage for you to vanish away. Assassins are fine.
Let me add a little more perspective, it was an RR4 hero iirc, had purge 2, I'm assuming IP1 or IP2, I kept fighting after IP, but right when they popped stag, I vanished away. I don't usually fight heroes because I can't get through 2 lifebars before I'm dead. The only reason I jumped back on was because they searched for me during the 30 second timer, which I used to first aid and repoison. The only reason it wasn't a stalemate was that they decided to search for me because they were back up to 95/96% health. Even then, I only won the fight with 1% of my health left, as I only have first aid 1.
I still don't really see a problem, he's a heavy tank who supposedly has the best defense and most health in the game but he still blew IP and stag and you still won. You put out enough DPS to basically kill him twice but still think you need more dps? That's crazy man lol
It's not what he wrote, you understood everything the other way around.
He isn't complaining...
An assassin should be able to kill a class quickly, provided they aren't a tank.
Tue 21 Jul 2020 9:13 PM
by
Lokkjim
Forlornhope wrote: ↑Tue 21 Jul 2020 8:16 PMLokkjim wrote: ↑Tue 21 Jul 2020 7:04 PMForlornhope wrote: ↑Tue 21 Jul 2020 6:36 PMLokkjim wrote: ↑Tue 21 Jul 2020 6:15 PMThe Assassin is a character class common to many role-playing games, often but not always representing the historical Assassin or Ninja. Such characters typically combine combat ability with strong stealth skills, and specialise in defeating an enemy without becoming involved in a protracted melee.
^ definition of the assassin archetype
I can barely beat a hero as an inf, and that was only by vanishing after IP and stag, repoisoning, using first aid, and jumping back into the fight because they decided to stick around, and luckily no one added in. An assassin should be able to kill a class quickly, provided they aren't a tank. If you take away an assassin's ability to kill quickly, it makes them more vulnerable to adds which in turn would lead to more grouped stealthers. Assassins may complain about some things in the game, but there are far more complaints about stealth groups or zergs. So pick your poison I guess.
I mean dude, if the guy had to blow stag and IP you put out enough DPS to kill him twice over before he did enough damage for you to vanish away. Assassins are fine.
Let me add a little more perspective, it was an RR4 hero iirc, had purge 2, I'm assuming IP1 or IP2, I kept fighting after IP, but right when they popped stag, I vanished away. I don't usually fight heroes because I can't get through 2 lifebars before I'm dead. The only reason I jumped back on was because they searched for me during the 30 second timer, which I used to first aid and repoison. The only reason it wasn't a stalemate was that they decided to search for me because they were back up to 95/96% health. Even then, I only won the fight with 1% of my health left, as I only have first aid 1.
I still don't really see a problem, he's a heavy tank who supposedly has the best defense and most health in the game but he still blew IP and stag and you still won. You put out enough DPS to basically kill him twice but still think you need more dps? That's crazy man lol
I didn't STILL win. Had I stayed in the fight, I would have lost, as I have lost to other heroes when I kept fighting after stag mode. The ONLY reason I won, was because they stayed around to search after I vanished, which gave me time to heal (first aid) and basically reset the fight where they had no abilities and no immunities. I didn't put out enough DPS to kill them twice and I even said that I can't get through 2 lifebars before I die in the part you quoted. The second part of the fight was basically a reset. All I had to do was survive a slam, which I barely managed to do as the fight ended with me at 1%. So, should an assassin out dps a heavy tank in a straight up fight with no timers? In my opinion, yes.
Edit: Nor have I said anywhere that assassins need more dps. I'm arguing that assassin dmg isn't overtuned and doesn't need an adjustment.
Wed 22 Jul 2020 12:28 AM
by
Messerjockel
It is a bit off topic but I would get rid of all stealth classes that solo visible game could flourish again.
Some stealth would leave, some would stay and play visible classes which would improve visible warfare.
I need to admit, I was killed lately Very often when I was solo mostly by stealth groups of 2 up to 5, without any chance of defense.
If any of you assassins thinks that it is funny time and time again to get killed without chance than think again. You decrease my good and most likely others experience.
Stealth game is not necessary for DAOC to function properly because stealth brings nothing to the table what a tank or light tank can do instead of them.
I would reduce rps for 2 stealth in groups by 25%, 3 by 50% and 4 or more by 75%. At least you can only laugh at your victim but collecting bad rps for your within the rules but unfair to others game play.
Why are we not starting a vote like we did for GTAOE couple month back and see if you get enough votes to keep stealth in the game.
I know, too risky to put that vote up because there is a good chance that you would loose.
By the way, I have also two 50 archers and that should tell you that I mean it serious by given them up in favor of visible game.
Messerjockel, Albion.
Some stealth would leave, some would stay and play visible classes which would improve visible warfare.
I need to admit, I was killed lately Very often when I was solo mostly by stealth groups of 2 up to 5, without any chance of defense.
If any of you assassins thinks that it is funny time and time again to get killed without chance than think again. You decrease my good and most likely others experience.
Stealth game is not necessary for DAOC to function properly because stealth brings nothing to the table what a tank or light tank can do instead of them.
I would reduce rps for 2 stealth in groups by 25%, 3 by 50% and 4 or more by 75%. At least you can only laugh at your victim but collecting bad rps for your within the rules but unfair to others game play.
Why are we not starting a vote like we did for GTAOE couple month back and see if you get enough votes to keep stealth in the game.
I know, too risky to put that vote up because there is a good chance that you would loose.
By the way, I have also two 50 archers and that should tell you that I mean it serious by given them up in favor of visible game.
Messerjockel, Albion.
Wed 22 Jul 2020 1:11 AM
by
Lokkjim
Messerjockel wrote: ↑Wed 22 Jul 2020 12:28 AMIt is a bit off topic but I would get rid of all stealth classes that solo visible game could flourish again.
Some stealth would leave, some would stay and play visible classes which would improve visible warfare.
I need to admit, I was killed lately Very often when I was solo mostly by stealth groups of 2 up to 5, without any chance of defense.
If any of you assassins thinks that it is funny time and time again to get killed without chance than think again. You decrease my good and most likely others experience.
Stealth game is not necessary for DAOC to function properly because stealth brings nothing to the table what a tank or light tank can do instead of them.
I would reduce rps for 2 stealth in groups by 25%, 3 by 50% and 4 or more by 75%. At least you can only laugh at your victim but collecting bad rps for your within the rules but unfair to others game play.
Why are we not starting a vote like we did for GTAOE couple month back and see if you get enough votes to keep stealth in the game.
I know, too risky to put that vote up because there is a good chance that you would loose.
By the way, I have also two 50 archers and that should tell you that I mean it serious by given them up in favor of visible game.
Messerjockel, Albion.
There's a lot about this post that I don't want to get into, but stealthers do bring things to the table that a light tank or tank can't. Stealthers can be very helpful in spying on enemy zergs or groups. Yes, maybe a speed class could do this but then the players being spied on would know they're being watched. You wanna know the crappy part about all this spying? Solo kills while spying are few and far between and you get nothing but a pat on the back for telling your zerg where they are, maybe you get to add on in the zerg but that's insignificant compared to the groups that get to spam cast everyone in the enemy zerg.
Wed 22 Jul 2020 2:26 AM
by
protege
Messerjockel wrote: ↑Wed 22 Jul 2020 12:28 AMIt is a bit off topic but I would get rid of all stealth classes that solo visible game could flourish again.
Some stealth would leave, some would stay and play visible classes which would improve visible warfare.
I need to admit, I was killed lately Very often when I was solo mostly by stealth groups of 2 up to 5, without any chance of defense.
If any of you assassins thinks that it is funny time and time again to get killed without chance than think again. You decrease my good and most likely others experience.
Stealth game is not necessary for DAOC to function properly because stealth brings nothing to the table what a tank or light tank can do instead of them.
I would reduce rps for 2 stealth in groups by 25%, 3 by 50% and 4 or more by 75%. At least you can only laugh at your victim but collecting bad rps for your within the rules but unfair to others game play.
Why are we not starting a vote like we did for GTAOE couple month back and see if you get enough votes to keep stealth in the game.
I know, too risky to put that vote up because there is a good chance that you would loose.
By the way, I have also two 50 archers and that should tell you that I mean it serious by given them up in favor of visible game.
Messerjockel, Albion.
In your situation, would I be transferring my RPs to a visible toon from my SB? lol.
Wed 22 Jul 2020 3:30 AM
by
Messerjockel
Just right now, 2 ns and 1 ranger at beno flag, no chance for a successful defense as a visible class
No, it is not fun and stealth game must be adjusted, not your damage output, keep that if that makes you happy but rps or stealth detection adjusted to prevent you from grouping.
Pretty sure I am one of many which don’t like in which direction the stealth game goes and by written here I am giving them a voice.
Messerjockel, Albion
No, it is not fun and stealth game must be adjusted, not your damage output, keep that if that makes you happy but rps or stealth detection adjusted to prevent you from grouping.
Pretty sure I am one of many which don’t like in which direction the stealth game goes and by written here I am giving them a voice.
Messerjockel, Albion
Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:11 AM
by
Lokkjim
I'm all for stealth zergs or groups being nerfed in rp gain, I'm solo anyways (rarely duo if my bud is on) and do my best to avoid stealth groups. But Phoenix already knows about this issue and is working on solving it. They already give a boosted detection range if there is more than 1 stealther (of the same realm) in the area. Anyways, here's the link showing that Phoenix is working to solve the issue.
https://forum.playphoenix.online/server/announcements/12982-changes-q2-2020#99782
https://forum.playphoenix.online/server/announcements/12982-changes-q2-2020#99782
Wed 22 Jul 2020 6:13 AM
by
Noashakra
If you think you are alone, I am also impacted by all the 3+ stealth groups and I am all for a penality for them.
But come one, if I was visible, I would be smashed by all the groups roaming around. I doubt you will find more 1vs1.
But come one, if I was visible, I would be smashed by all the groups roaming around. I doubt you will find more 1vs1.
Wed 22 Jul 2020 9:56 AM
by
Messerjockel
I really hope the comments in this thread are read by the GMs.
Stealth groups are damaging the game more than they make it better.
A harsh, costly adjustment needs to be made to prevent stealth groups from destroying the game for others.
A high percentage RP deduction must be the first step.
The next must drastically reduce their ability to hide, eg stealth reduced by 15-20 points per stealth in group, maybe more if that is not forcing them to ungroup And up to no stealth at 4 or more stealth in group.
Another way is to reduce damage output by a flat percentage like 20% per stealth class in grp.
With the steps above we can impact stealth groups seriously and hopefully prevent that they build grps.
Messerjockel, Albion
Stealth groups are damaging the game more than they make it better.
A harsh, costly adjustment needs to be made to prevent stealth groups from destroying the game for others.
A high percentage RP deduction must be the first step.
The next must drastically reduce their ability to hide, eg stealth reduced by 15-20 points per stealth in group, maybe more if that is not forcing them to ungroup And up to no stealth at 4 or more stealth in group.
Another way is to reduce damage output by a flat percentage like 20% per stealth class in grp.
With the steps above we can impact stealth groups seriously and hopefully prevent that they build grps.
Messerjockel, Albion
Wed 22 Jul 2020 10:43 AM
by
inoeth
Messerjockel wrote: ↑Wed 22 Jul 2020 9:56 AMI really hope the comments in this thread are read by the GMs.
Stealth groups are damaging the game more than they make it better.
A harsh, costly adjustment needs to be made to prevent stealth groups from destroying the game for others.
A high percentage RP deduction must be the first step.
The next must drastically reduce their ability to hide, eg stealth reduced by 15-20 points per stealth in group, maybe more if that is not forcing them to ungroup And up to no stealth at 4 or more stealth in group.
Another way is to reduce damage output by a flat percentage like 20% per stealth class in grp.
With the steps above we can impact stealth groups seriously and hopefully prevent that they build grps.
Messerjockel, Albion
agree with most but there also has to be a benefit for grping otherwise they will simply run together without grp.
the urge to gank is strong in those ppl
its really hard to balance this issue
i think a reduction in rp would be a good thing and the benefit for grp might be that you can see stealthed grp mates at clipping range. in combination with the already in stealth reduction this could be a good thing to at least test.
Wed 22 Jul 2020 11:58 AM
by
Dunga
i dont like stealthgrps too, especially high rr ones....
but u realy want a rp reduction, less stealth or less dam...'? why? the classes have a grp button and they can grp with everyone they want, like each other classes.
the same restrictions should then also have all smal / fgs who roll over u much more times and if u are running with the zerg and kill a solo u should get minus realm points and gradually fall into your realm rank...
each group of stealthers has more to do with the sense of the game than someone who is traveling alone. Did i like it? NO, but thats the game.
if you get zerged, laugh at them, sit down and show them that they are the greatest or try to live as long as you can and hope a other grp will roll over them. i hate it too, but if they got killed its one of they funniest moments ig.
but u realy want a rp reduction, less stealth or less dam...'? why? the classes have a grp button and they can grp with everyone they want, like each other classes.
the same restrictions should then also have all smal / fgs who roll over u much more times and if u are running with the zerg and kill a solo u should get minus realm points and gradually fall into your realm rank...
each group of stealthers has more to do with the sense of the game than someone who is traveling alone. Did i like it? NO, but thats the game.
if you get zerged, laugh at them, sit down and show them that they are the greatest or try to live as long as you can and hope a other grp will roll over them. i hate it too, but if they got killed its one of they funniest moments ig.
Wed 22 Jul 2020 12:20 PM
by
Valaraukar
Dunga wrote: ↑Wed 22 Jul 2020 11:58 AMi dont like stealthgrps too, especially high rr ones....
but u realy want a rp reduction, less stealth or less dam...'? why? the classes have a grp button and they can grp with everyone they want, like each other classes.
the same restrictions should then also have all smal / fgs who roll over u much more times and if u are running with the zerg and kill a solo u should get minus realm points and gradually fall into your realm rank...
each group of stealthers has more to do with the sense of the game than someone who is traveling alone. Did i like it? NO, but thats the game.
if you get zerged, laugh at them, sit down and show them that they are the greatest or try to live as long as you can and hope a other grp will roll over them. i hate it too, but if they got killed its one of they funniest moments ig.
I totally agree! No one gets fun when zerged, by a stealthers group, by a BG, by 3 Fgs, by a smallman... does not care at all. But this is the game, this is DAOC. It is not a solo game, it is a game where you can group with others and if you go alone you do it at your own risk. So stick to the game, risk yourself going alone or get a group, that's so easy!
Wed 22 Jul 2020 12:51 PM
by
Noashakra
Valaraukar wrote: ↑Wed 22 Jul 2020 12:20 PMDunga wrote: ↑Wed 22 Jul 2020 11:58 AMi dont like stealthgrps too, especially high rr ones....
but u realy want a rp reduction, less stealth or less dam...'? why? the classes have a grp button and they can grp with everyone they want, like each other classes.
the same restrictions should then also have all smal / fgs who roll over u much more times and if u are running with the zerg and kill a solo u should get minus realm points and gradually fall into your realm rank...
each group of stealthers has more to do with the sense of the game than someone who is traveling alone. Did i like it? NO, but thats the game.
if you get zerged, laugh at them, sit down and show them that they are the greatest or try to live as long as you can and hope a other grp will roll over them. i hate it too, but if they got killed its one of they funniest moments ig.
I totally agree! No one gets fun when zerged, by a stealthers group, by a BG, by 3 Fgs, by a smallman... does not care at all. But this is the game, this is DAOC. It is not a solo game, it is a game where you can group with others and if you go alone you do it at your own risk. So stick to the game, risk yourself going alone or get a group, that's so easy!
Zerg the task with 4fg to ruin the fun of everyone else!
Wed 22 Jul 2020 12:54 PM
by
Valaraukar
Noashakra wrote: ↑Wed 22 Jul 2020 12:51 PMValaraukar wrote: ↑Wed 22 Jul 2020 12:20 PMDunga wrote: ↑Wed 22 Jul 2020 11:58 AMi dont like stealthgrps too, especially high rr ones....
but u realy want a rp reduction, less stealth or less dam...'? why? the classes have a grp button and they can grp with everyone they want, like each other classes.
the same restrictions should then also have all smal / fgs who roll over u much more times and if u are running with the zerg and kill a solo u should get minus realm points and gradually fall into your realm rank...
each group of stealthers has more to do with the sense of the game than someone who is traveling alone. Did i like it? NO, but thats the game.
if you get zerged, laugh at them, sit down and show them that they are the greatest or try to live as long as you can and hope a other grp will roll over them. i hate it too, but if they got killed its one of they funniest moments ig.
I totally agree! No one gets fun when zerged, by a stealthers group, by a BG, by 3 Fgs, by a smallman... does not care at all. But this is the game, this is DAOC. It is not a solo game, it is a game where you can group with others and if you go alone you do it at your own risk. So stick to the game, risk yourself going alone or get a group, that's so easy!
Zerg the task with 4fg to ruin the fun of everyone else!
I see that the FGs are constantly increasing! Keep going, you can arrive to 10 and more FGs if you like
Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:39 PM
by
pollojack
This went from stealthers are too strong to the real complaint, "I die to more numbers, fix it."
I've said it before and I'll say it again. 0 rps for 3+ vs 1. Phoenix has already adjusted 1v1 zone over fears of rp farming why not address this form of rp farming?
If you made stealthers nonviable this thread would be another "8/small man killed my visi, buff 1v1 zone" thread. They open up the 1v1 zone and lo and behold no one wants to fight RR11 Warriors, Mercs, Champs and other actually strong classes.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. 0 rps for 3+ vs 1. Phoenix has already adjusted 1v1 zone over fears of rp farming why not address this form of rp farming?
If you made stealthers nonviable this thread would be another "8/small man killed my visi, buff 1v1 zone" thread. They open up the 1v1 zone and lo and behold no one wants to fight RR11 Warriors, Mercs, Champs and other actually strong classes.
Wed 22 Jul 2020 5:55 PM
by
Siouxsie
Lokkjim wrote: ↑Wed 22 Jul 2020 1:11 AMThere's a lot about this post that I don't want to get into, but stealthers do bring things to the table that a light tank or tank can't. Stealthers can be very helpful in spying on enemy zergs or groups. Yes, maybe a speed class could do this but then the players being spied on would know they're being watched. You wanna know the crappy part about all this spying? Solo kills while spying are few and far between and you get nothing but a pat on the back for telling your zerg where they are, maybe you get to add on in the zerg but that's insignificant compared to the groups that get to spam cast everyone in the enemy zerg.
Or in Mid's case, as soon as I announced Polemo's Alb zerg arrived at Glenlock.. they immediately turned and left thanks to their
spy in Midgard reading the /region chat.
Spying/Crossrealming ruins the game. The 4 hour realm timer doesn't help.
Wed 22 Jul 2020 7:47 PM
by
Lokkjim
Siouxsie wrote: ↑Wed 22 Jul 2020 5:55 PMLokkjim wrote: ↑Wed 22 Jul 2020 1:11 AMThere's a lot about this post that I don't want to get into, but stealthers do bring things to the table that a light tank or tank can't. Stealthers can be very helpful in spying on enemy zergs or groups. Yes, maybe a speed class could do this but then the players being spied on would know they're being watched. You wanna know the crappy part about all this spying? Solo kills while spying are few and far between and you get nothing but a pat on the back for telling your zerg where they are, maybe you get to add on in the zerg but that's insignificant compared to the groups that get to spam cast everyone in the enemy zerg.
Or in Mid's case, as soon as I announced Polemo's Alb zerg arrived at Glenlock.. they immediately turned and left thanks to their
spy in Midgard reading the /region chat.
Spying/Crossrealming ruins the game. The 4 hour realm timer doesn't help.
Honestly, I'd be fine with a 24 hour or more realm timer, I know xp in NF is great sometimes but if people really want to play in a particular realm, they will. A 24 hour timer shouldn't stop people from playing the realm they really want to play.
Thu 23 Jul 2020 2:14 AM
by
Helwyr
Lokkjim wrote: ↑Wed 22 Jul 2020 7:47 PMHonestly, I'd be fine with a 24 hour or more realm timer, I know xp in NF is great sometimes but if people really want to play in a particular realm, they will. A 24 hour timer shouldn't stop people from playing the realm they really want to play.
The timer at a minimum should be 72 hours. A week would be better.
Thu 23 Jul 2020 6:10 AM
by
inoeth
persecution mania!
same as the famous "radar" thing
maybe visit a doctor plz
live and let live
if ppl want to play another realm why do you want to stop them? deal with it
same as the famous "radar" thing
maybe visit a doctor plz
live and let live
if ppl want to play another realm why do you want to stop them? deal with it
Thu 23 Jul 2020 9:31 AM
by
Forlornhope
inoeth wrote: ↑Thu 23 Jul 2020 6:10 AMpersecution mania!
same as the famous "radar" thing
maybe visit a doctor plz
live and let live
if ppl want to play another realm why do you want to stop them? deal with it
But.. but, what about realm pride and honor?! XD
Thu 23 Jul 2020 10:16 AM
by
Messerjockel
I thought about a solution for my problem with stealth zergs.
Hib has 2 or more Zerg leaders which run the show at different times a day. I have actually an enchanter and with the speed I can join the Zerg without the need to join a group and take breaks when I want.
Stealth zergs don’t attack visible zergs.
I let you know if the move to hib is changing the situation. Maybe an out of the ordinary solution for all which are tired of stealth groups.
Messerjockel, Hibernia.
Hib has 2 or more Zerg leaders which run the show at different times a day. I have actually an enchanter and with the speed I can join the Zerg without the need to join a group and take breaks when I want.
Stealth zergs don’t attack visible zergs.
I let you know if the move to hib is changing the situation. Maybe an out of the ordinary solution for all which are tired of stealth groups.
Messerjockel, Hibernia.
Thu 23 Jul 2020 11:00 AM
by
Sepplord
Messerjockel wrote: ↑Thu 23 Jul 2020 10:16 AMI thought about a solution for my problem with stealth zergs.
Hib has 2 or more Zerg leaders which run the show at different times a day. I have actually an enchanter and with the speed I can join the Zerg without the need to join a group and take breaks when I want.
Stealth zergs don’t attack visible zergs.
I let you know if the move to hib is changing the situation. Maybe an out of the ordinary solution for all which are tired of stealth groups.
Messerjockel, Hibernia.
Not sure if i am misunderstanding...but it sounds as if your advice to solo-people tired of stealth-groups is to just join the realmzerg?
i mean....that's not wrong...but it is just a small step above "just quit the game and you will never get killed by a stealthzerg again"
Thu 23 Jul 2020 11:15 AM
by
inoeth
Forlornhope wrote: ↑Thu 23 Jul 2020 9:31 AMinoeth wrote: ↑Thu 23 Jul 2020 6:10 AMpersecution mania!
same as the famous "radar" thing
maybe visit a doctor plz
live and let live
if ppl want to play another realm why do you want to stop them? deal with it
But.. but, what about realm pride and honor?! XD
for me ppl promoting "realm pride" are the same that promote nationalism .... we dont need that, especially not on an international game server
Thu 23 Jul 2020 11:31 AM
by
Noashakra
inoeth wrote: ↑Thu 23 Jul 2020 11:15 AMForlornhope wrote: ↑Thu 23 Jul 2020 9:31 AMinoeth wrote: ↑Thu 23 Jul 2020 6:10 AMpersecution mania!
same as the famous "radar" thing
maybe visit a doctor plz
live and let live
if ppl want to play another realm why do you want to stop them? deal with it
But.. but, what about realm pride and honor?! XD
for me ppl promoting "realm pride" are the same that promote nationalism .... we dont need that, especially not on an international game server
I doubt this is correct. Lots of people are playing a game to be something else than what they are in real life :p Especially in a game about RvRvR.
Thu 23 Jul 2020 3:01 PM
by
boridi
inoeth wrote: ↑Thu 23 Jul 2020 11:15 AMForlornhope wrote: ↑Thu 23 Jul 2020 9:31 AMinoeth wrote: ↑Thu 23 Jul 2020 6:10 AMpersecution mania!
same as the famous "radar" thing
maybe visit a doctor plz
live and let live
if ppl want to play another realm why do you want to stop them? deal with it
But.. but, what about realm pride and honor?! XD
for me ppl promoting "realm pride" are the same that promote nationalism .... we dont need that, especially not on an international game server
This game is about killing people but murder is illegal. Oh no!
Thu 23 Jul 2020 3:34 PM
by
protege
inoeth wrote: ↑Thu 23 Jul 2020 11:15 AMForlornhope wrote: ↑Thu 23 Jul 2020 9:31 AMinoeth wrote: ↑Thu 23 Jul 2020 6:10 AMpersecution mania!
same as the famous "radar" thing
maybe visit a doctor plz
live and let live
if ppl want to play another realm why do you want to stop them? deal with it
But.. but, what about realm pride and honor?! XD
for me ppl promoting "realm pride" are the same that promote nationalism .... we dont need that, especially not on an international game server
... I cannot tell if you're serious or not.
Thu 23 Jul 2020 4:43 PM
by
Blitze
I like realm pride.
I hate nationalism.
Wrt. to realm pride I think I like it because it is at odds with things like peeling off groups so they can kill solos/duos of your own realm
Realm pride promotes the red is dead mentality. The removal of the red is dead mentality with 8v8 fair fights and solo duels i find meh.
I hate nationalism.
Wrt. to realm pride I think I like it because it is at odds with things like peeling off groups so they can kill solos/duos of your own realm
Realm pride promotes the red is dead mentality. The removal of the red is dead mentality with 8v8 fair fights and solo duels i find meh.
Thu 23 Jul 2020 8:39 PM
by
OMNIGORD
I think part of the problem is that assassins and archers are both actually assassins: Extremely high damage that can avoid combat with stealth.
There is no class with a strong incentive and ability to hunt stealthers.
Assassins are capable, but the same tools they would use to hunt archers or other assassins are even more effective against visibles.
Examples of the types of abilities I'm looking for (that would be effective against stealthers but ineffective against visibles) are things like:
long duration DoT (1 minute or more) with extremely low damage (1 damage per tick, 1 tick per ten seconds)
large radius (like, 1000 units) extremely low damage (1 to 10 damage) pbaoe/gtaoe
stealth detection buff with long cast time (10 seconds) short duration (20-30 seconds) that provides a bonus potent enough to spot some low spec stealthers from up to 1000 units away (almost as far as standard dd range)
There is no class with a strong incentive and ability to hunt stealthers.
Assassins are capable, but the same tools they would use to hunt archers or other assassins are even more effective against visibles.
Examples of the types of abilities I'm looking for (that would be effective against stealthers but ineffective against visibles) are things like:
long duration DoT (1 minute or more) with extremely low damage (1 damage per tick, 1 tick per ten seconds)
large radius (like, 1000 units) extremely low damage (1 to 10 damage) pbaoe/gtaoe
stealth detection buff with long cast time (10 seconds) short duration (20-30 seconds) that provides a bonus potent enough to spot some low spec stealthers from up to 1000 units away (almost as far as standard dd range)
Thu 23 Jul 2020 8:55 PM
by
Amser
OMNIGORD wrote: ↑Thu 23 Jul 2020 8:39 PMI think part of the problem is that assassins and archers are both actually assassins: Extremely high damage that can avoid combat with stealth.
There is no class with a strong incentive and ability to hunt stealthers.
Assassins are capable, but the same tools they would use to hunt archers or other assassins are even more effective against visibles.
Examples of the types of abilities I'm looking for (that would be effective against stealthers but ineffective against visibles) are things like:
long duration DoT (1 minute or more) with extremely low damage (1 damage per tick, 1 tick per ten seconds)
large radius (like, 1000 units) extremely low damage (1 to 10 damage) pbaoe/gtaoe
stealth detection buff with long cast time (10 seconds) short duration (20-30 seconds) that provides a bonus potent enough to spot some low spec stealthers from up to 1000 units away (almost as far as standard dd range)
long duration DoT (1 minute or more) with extremely low damage (1 damage per tick, 1 tick per ten seconds)
-Long duration DOT won't do anything. Stealth timer is based off of the first tick of a DOT. Not the last.
Large radius (like, 1000 units) extremely low damage (1 to 10 damage) pbaoe/gtaoe
-This sounds extremely broken for 8 mans, zerging, tower/keep defense, and all other play in the game.
stealth detection buff with long cast time (10 seconds) short duration (20-30 seconds) that provides a bonus potent enough to spot some low spec stealthers from up to 1000 units away (almost as far as standard dd range)
-There are already stealth pots available to any class in the game. Lasts 1min, and can be reused immediately.
I also disagree with your initial claim. There are lots of classes that have abilities to hunt/kill stealthers. Just not a lot visibles hunt stealthers because they just get run down by the same 8 mans that run down the stealthers. The visi's just get run down more because they can't hide as easily from the 8 mans.
Thu 23 Jul 2020 9:28 PM
by
Lokkjim
I'd definitely like an incentive to hunt more stealthers. Fighting other assassins is where the challenge is and that's what I want. Stealth groups make that difficult though. Maybe just increase the detection range more when they're in groups or the same area or whatever it is. Maybe make stealthers a realm specific task (kill 5 stealthers, get task completion and realm points). Dunno how'd they make that work for minstrels but if they can it'd be awesome, I think.
Thu 23 Jul 2020 10:28 PM
by
Tyrlaan
OMNIGORD wrote: ↑Thu 23 Jul 2020 8:39 PMI think part of the problem is that assassins and archers are both actually assassins: Extremely high damage that can avoid combat with stealth.
There is no class with a strong incentive and ability to hunt stealthers.
Assassins are capable, but the same tools they would use to hunt archers or other assassins are even more effective against visibles.
Examples of the types of abilities I'm looking for (that would be effective against stealthers but ineffective against visibles) are things like:
long duration DoT (1 minute or more) with extremely low damage (1 damage per tick, 1 tick per ten seconds)
large radius (like, 1000 units) extremely low damage (1 to 10 damage) pbaoe/gtaoe
stealth detection buff with long cast time (10 seconds) short duration (20-30 seconds) that provides a bonus potent enough to spot some low spec stealthers from up to 1000 units away (almost as far as standard dd range)
Reavers and VWs used to have the DoT to keep from restealthing/speed ticks. 24sec duration with 30sec RUT. On live every DoT tick resets the combat timer. On Phoenix only the first tick does, so people can actually benefit from speed or re-stealth while a frigging DoT is ticking.
And then there was True Sight in OF... then before NF hit, there was TOA with stealth lore items and prescience nodes... then there were NF assassin keep guards detecting stealthers, and dockmasters attacking enemies... and then Vamps.
TBH stealthers never had it any better (in any incarnation of DAoC) than they have it on Phoenix.
Fri 24 Jul 2020 2:27 AM
by
Helwyr
People that play this game that think Realm loyalty shouldn't matter don't even understand the game they are playing. It's like showing up to a football match and claiming there shouldn't be any teams. Make realm switching have a cool down of two weeks!
Oh great then you won't mind if stealthers go back to how it was in the very early days of DAoC with PA damage that could one shot a caster, never mind completing the PA chain and then staying in Stealth while you did it. This would be a big nerf to Assassins to you?
Tyrlaan wrote: ↑Thu 23 Jul 2020 10:28 PM[...]
TBH stealthers never had it any better (in any incarnation of DAoC) than they have it on Phoenix.
Oh great then you won't mind if stealthers go back to how it was in the very early days of DAoC with PA damage that could one shot a caster, never mind completing the PA chain and then staying in Stealth while you did it. This would be a big nerf to Assassins to you?
Fri 24 Jul 2020 6:15 AM
by
Parole
Meh - assassins' dmg is fine. they should hit like trucks, you forget they have no IP, dodger, or blocking (obv.). If they don't kill fast they will die. Nothing wrong with them imo now.
Fri 24 Jul 2020 6:27 AM
by
inoeth
Helwyr wrote: ↑Fri 24 Jul 2020 2:27 AMPeople that play this game that think Realm loyalty shouldn't matter don't even understand the game they are playing. It's like showing up to a football match and claiming there shouldn't be any teams. Make realm switching have a cool down of two weeks!
Tyrlaan wrote: ↑Thu 23 Jul 2020 10:28 PM[...]
TBH stealthers never had it any better (in any incarnation of DAoC) than they have it on Phoenix.
Oh great then you won't mind if stealthers go back to how it was in the very early days of DAoC with PA damage that could one shot a caster, never mind completing the PA chain and then staying in Stealth while you did it. This would be a big nerf to Assassins to you?
imagine going to a football match and there are 3 teams at once... seriously what a ridicolous camparison
Fri 24 Jul 2020 5:12 PM
by
inoeth
protege wrote: ↑Fri 24 Jul 2020 7:03 AMParole wrote: ↑Fri 24 Jul 2020 6:15 AMMeh - assassins' dmg is fine. they should hit like trucks, you forget they have no IP, dodger, or blocking (obv.). If they don't kill fast they will die. Nothing wrong with them imo now.
Parole spittin pure truths rightchea
if we are talking about pre buff assassins then yes, but since the latest buff they are much too strong.
getting a pa means you are basicly down to 40-50% instantly (hunter 2.2k hp 680 af) no point wasting any RAs at that point so landing pa means free rp...
Fri 24 Jul 2020 5:24 PM
by
Messerjockel
I had a good discussion with some new assassins , one or two are actually friends in hib and alb lately. Nobody complains about the damage in general but they need to have a buff when they fight tanks. They said it is sometimes difficult to bring one done. A good way would maybe a strong armor debuff to help them with tanks.
Another idea but I did not get how that helps with tanks is to increase disease to 5 minutes. I liked that one because it is not affecting damage output and would help assassins in general in rvr
Messerjockel, Albion.
Another idea but I did not get how that helps with tanks is to increase disease to 5 minutes. I liked that one because it is not affecting damage output and would help assassins in general in rvr
Messerjockel, Albion.
Fri 24 Jul 2020 6:05 PM
by
Taniquetil
Tbh, the bleed buff + dot proc buff is a bit strong for sins atm.
Rest is fine. Land PA you have the upper hand, miss PA you're in a worse spot than you were pre patch. Makes sense.
Whatever happens, at the end of the fight you end up with 9 arrows in your ribs anyway, so may as well just let us one shot things.
Rest is fine. Land PA you have the upper hand, miss PA you're in a worse spot than you were pre patch. Makes sense.
Whatever happens, at the end of the fight you end up with 9 arrows in your ribs anyway, so may as well just let us one shot things.
Fri 24 Jul 2020 6:09 PM
by
tommccartney
Messerjockel wrote: ↑Fri 24 Jul 2020 5:24 PMI had a good discussion with some new assassins , one or two are actually friends in hib and alb lately. Nobody complains about the damage in general but they need to have a buff when they fight tanks. They said it is sometimes difficult to bring one done. A good way would maybe a strong armor debuff to help them with tanks.
Another idea but I did not get how that helps with tanks is to increase disease to 5 minutes. I liked that one because it is not affecting damage output and would help assassins in general in rvr
Messerjockel, Albion.
Could you be anymore 2020.
Just no.
Fri 24 Jul 2020 6:58 PM
by
Lokkjim
inoeth wrote: ↑Fri 24 Jul 2020 5:12 PMif we are talking about pre buff assassins then yes, but since the latest buff they are much too strong.
getting a pa means you are basicly down to 40-50% instantly (hunter 2.2k hp 680 af) no point wasting any RAs at that point so landing pa means free rp...
So, you are saying there's no point to using IP 2 or 3, no reason to purge and use your speed burst, no reason to summon your pet, because you will automatically lose? Even if you were specced for solo fights like assassins are? Can you let me know when and where you hang out on your hunter?
Fri 24 Jul 2020 6:59 PM
by
Helwyr
inoeth wrote: ↑Fri 24 Jul 2020 6:27 AMimagine going to a football match and there are 3 teams at once... seriously what a ridicolous camparison
This from the poster claiming promoting "Realm Pride" is the same as promoting real life Nationalism, and this some how being damaging to a server that has an international player base. You are a living example of pure ridiculousness. Edit: Oh yeah make Realm Switching a 3 Week long cool down!
Fri 24 Jul 2020 7:13 PM
by
Helwyr
Messerjockel wrote: ↑Fri 24 Jul 2020 5:24 PMI had a good discussion with some new assassins , one or two are actually friends in hib and alb lately. Nobody complains about the damage in general but they need to have a buff when they fight tanks. They said it is sometimes difficult to bring one done. A good way would maybe a strong armor debuff to help them with tanks.
Another idea but I did not get how that helps with tanks is to increase disease to 5 minutes. I liked that one because it is not affecting damage output and would help assassins in general in rvr
Messerjockel, Albion.
I've defended Assassins from the unjustified attempts to call to nerf them in this thread, but here I have to disagree. Tanks should be the rock to the Assassin's scissors. If anything I would make pure melee visible classes stronger vs Assassins not weaker. Where Assassins could do with a boost is vs support and grouped targets. One way to achieve all this would be to remove enervating, disease and strength debuff poisons and in return give Assassins an ability to block all healing other than IP to the target they are attacking. This would somewhat lower Assassin's time to kill in many cases in 1vs1 as well as nerf them vs tanks, but it would open up a much wider range of targets and even have them welcomed into pre made visible groups. However, ultimately I think the Phoenix staff would be wise not to go making lots of radical changes to such an old game, and players just accept it for what it is, including its many flaws. But if I were to change Assassins, that would the direction I would go.
Fri 24 Jul 2020 7:38 PM
by
inoeth
Messerjockel wrote: ↑Fri 24 Jul 2020 5:24 PMI had a good discussion with some new assassins , one or two are actually friends in hib and alb lately. Nobody complains about the damage in general but they need to have a buff when they fight tanks. They said it is sometimes difficult to bring one done. A good way would maybe a strong armor debuff to help them with tanks.
Another idea but I did not get how that helps with tanks is to increase disease to 5 minutes. I liked that one because it is not affecting damage output and would help assassins in general in rvr
Messerjockel, Albion.
rofl yeah and give mashine guns or better laser cannons... wtf
Fri 24 Jul 2020 7:40 PM
by
inoeth
Helwyr wrote: ↑Fri 24 Jul 2020 6:59 PMinoeth wrote: ↑Fri 24 Jul 2020 6:27 AMimagine going to a football match and there are 3 teams at once... seriously what a ridicolous camparison
This from the poster claiming promoting "Realm Pride" is the same as promoting real life Nationalism, and this some how being damaging to a server that has an international player base. You are a living example of pure ridiculousness. Edit: Oh yeah make Realm Switching a 3 Week long cool down!
apples and pears?
Fri 24 Jul 2020 7:51 PM
by
inoeth
Lokkjim wrote: ↑Fri 24 Jul 2020 6:58 PMinoeth wrote: ↑Fri 24 Jul 2020 5:12 PMif we are talking about pre buff assassins then yes, but since the latest buff they are much too strong.
getting a pa means you are basicly down to 40-50% instantly (hunter 2.2k hp 680 af) no point wasting any RAs at that point so landing pa means free rp...
So, you are saying there's no point to using IP 2 or 3, no reason to purge and use your speed burst, no reason to summon your pet, because you will automatically lose? Even if you were specced for solo fights like assassins are? Can you let me know when and where you hang out on your hunter?
using speed burst vs assassin, summon pet when basicly dead, why not claim even more stupid stuff like: why dont you cahnge your cloak during fights?
vs good assassins you need ip3-4 even without pa, thx to bad styles+ bad procs for hunters. if you are down to 40% from the start you wont win those fights. for you it will still be enough, promise.
pa now is ~400dmg+400debuff and thx to increase off hand hit chance, everybody always hitting for 250 with dmg add
try tu survive that
Fri 24 Jul 2020 8:52 PM
by
Lokkjim
inoeth wrote: ↑Fri 24 Jul 2020 7:51 PMusing speed burst vs assassin, summon pet when basicly dead, why not claim even more stupid stuff like: why dont you cahnge your cloak during fights?
vs good assassins you need ip3-4 even without pa, thx to bad styles+ bad procs for hunters. if you are down to 40% from the start you wont win those fights. for you it will still be enough, promise.
pa now is ~400dmg+400debuff and thx to increase off hand hit chance, everybody always hitting for 250 with dmg add
try tu survive that
So you're assuming every assassin is automatically an NS with their DDs and that infs can insta switch to DD weapon so you get no distance on them, and then also assuming that every stealther must be slash so you again have no chance? Man, the defeatism is real in Midgard.
Sat 25 Jul 2020 1:04 PM
by
Messerjockel
@ inoeth, no machine guns. This are serious issues and jokes dont help.
We reviewed the comments on my thread and we were surprised that our good proposals were not brought to the GMs for review and approval.
Anyway, after a long discussion with some good results and one statement I cannot support but it has actually logic behind we came to the following results.
The armor debuff which helps with tanks should be implemented but should only work for the assassin which applied it. Reason is that it would be unfair against the tank player and it helps the assassin to get more rps for the kill because they do more damage because of the debuff
It was agreed that disease should stay on current timer but should not be able to cure or purge. Assassins disease should be more dangerous than caba or shaman disease. Everybody can see this is not an increase in damage output and helps assassin with tanks.
Vanish should be half the cost and 30 seconds immunity. On the other hand the assassin should be permitted to attack after 10 seconds. We agreed on 10 seconds because they need that time to reapply poison before they attack. Also no increase in damage output and nobody can complaint.
Speed buff for all classes in the frontier if there was no interaction with the enemy after 1 minute. The change for assassins should be that the speed buff should work in stealth. Advantage is clear, more action because they can quickly move where the action is. Everybody wins.
The statement I cannot support even that there is logic behind it is this: we assassin are the most essential part of daoc. We prevent that too many solo player running around and doing their own thing. By doing our job we make sure people join groups or zergs which promotes the ultimate goal of DAOC, realm vs realm.
Sounds logic but it feels off for me
We reviewed the comments on my thread and we were surprised that our good proposals were not brought to the GMs for review and approval.
Anyway, after a long discussion with some good results and one statement I cannot support but it has actually logic behind we came to the following results.
The armor debuff which helps with tanks should be implemented but should only work for the assassin which applied it. Reason is that it would be unfair against the tank player and it helps the assassin to get more rps for the kill because they do more damage because of the debuff
It was agreed that disease should stay on current timer but should not be able to cure or purge. Assassins disease should be more dangerous than caba or shaman disease. Everybody can see this is not an increase in damage output and helps assassin with tanks.
Vanish should be half the cost and 30 seconds immunity. On the other hand the assassin should be permitted to attack after 10 seconds. We agreed on 10 seconds because they need that time to reapply poison before they attack. Also no increase in damage output and nobody can complaint.
Speed buff for all classes in the frontier if there was no interaction with the enemy after 1 minute. The change for assassins should be that the speed buff should work in stealth. Advantage is clear, more action because they can quickly move where the action is. Everybody wins.
The statement I cannot support even that there is logic behind it is this: we assassin are the most essential part of daoc. We prevent that too many solo player running around and doing their own thing. By doing our job we make sure people join groups or zergs which promotes the ultimate goal of DAOC, realm vs realm.
Sounds logic but it feels off for me
Sat 25 Jul 2020 1:13 PM
by
ExcretusMaximus
Messerjockel wrote: ↑Sat 25 Jul 2020 1:04 PM@ inoeth, no machine guns. This are serious issues and jokes dont help.
We reviewed the comments on my thread and we were surprised that our good proposals were not brought to the GMs for review and approval.
Anyway, after a long discussion with some good results and one statement I cannot support but it has actually logic behind we came to the following results.
The armor debuff which helps with tanks should be implemented but should only work for the assassin which applied it. Reason is that it would be unfair against the tank player and it helps the assassin to get more rps for the kill because they do more damage because of the debuff
It was agreed that disease should stay on current timer but should not be able to cure or purge. Assassins disease should be more dangerous than caba or shaman disease. Everybody can see this is not an increase in damage output and helps assassin with tanks.
Vanish should be half the cost and 30 seconds immunity. On the other hand the assassin should be permitted to attack after 10 seconds. We agreed on 10 seconds because they need that time to reapply poison before they attack. Also no increase in damage output and nobody can complaint.
Speed buff for all classes in the frontier if there was no interaction with the enemy after 1 minute. The change for assassins should be that the speed buff should work in stealth. Advantage is clear, more action because they can quickly move where the action is. Everybody wins.
The statement I cannot support even that there is logic behind it is this: we assassin are the most essential part of daoc. We prevent that too many solo player running around and doing their own thing. By doing our job we make sure people join groups or zergs which promotes the ultimate goal of DAOC, realm vs realm.
Sounds logic but it feels off for me
What planet do you live on?
If you want to play a game where the only solo action involves a bunch of invisible idiots preying on everyone else, you're already playing it, you don't need even more broken buffs.
Sat 25 Jul 2020 2:22 PM
by
Lokkjim
Messerjockel wrote: ↑Sat 25 Jul 2020 1:04 PM@ inoeth, no machine guns. This are serious issues and jokes dont help.
We reviewed the comments on my thread and we were surprised that our good proposals were not brought to the GMs for review and approval.
Anyway, after a long discussion with some good results and one statement I cannot support but it has actually logic behind we came to the following results.
The armor debuff which helps with tanks should be implemented but should only work for the assassin which applied it. Reason is that it would be unfair against the tank player and it helps the assassin to get more rps for the kill because they do more damage because of the debuff
It was agreed that disease should stay on current timer but should not be able to cure or purge. Assassins disease should be more dangerous than caba or shaman disease. Everybody can see this is not an increase in damage output and helps assassin with tanks.
Vanish should be half the cost and 30 seconds immunity. On the other hand the assassin should be permitted to attack after 10 seconds. We agreed on 10 seconds because they need that time to reapply poison before they attack. Also no increase in damage output and nobody can complaint.
Speed buff for all classes in the frontier if there was no interaction with the enemy after 1 minute. The change for assassins should be that the speed buff should work in stealth. Advantage is clear, more action because they can quickly move where the action is. Everybody wins.
The statement I cannot support even that there is logic behind it is this: we assassin are the most essential part of daoc. We prevent that too many solo player running around and doing their own thing. By doing our job we make sure people join groups or zergs which promotes the ultimate goal of DAOC, realm vs realm.
Sounds logic but it feels off for me
I just woke up so I'm not gonna get into too much detail but in my opinion:
- Assassins shouldn't have an easier time against tanks
- Disease should be purgable/curable, they already have an anytime snare, why give them more?
- Vanish should be nerfed, it's too easy to vanish away as a solo even if they lore, nor should you be permitted to jump back into a fight, that would be exploited way too badly
- Assassins do not need a speed buff in stealth. Visibles need to believe they have a chance to get to their destination
Sun 26 Jul 2020 10:58 AM
by
Messerjockel
Played in a stealth grp in the last day, 2 ns, 2 melee ranger, 1 bow ranger. Easy RPS all day. Solo visible no chance, 2-3 Visible enemies grouped we let go and sometimes we attacked but it could be risky and single or small grp stealth we killed easily.
I actually kidnapped this thread a couple days ago in regards that I cannot solo play anymore because of stealth groups everywhere.
Since I played in stealth grp which kind of feels like solo play I changed my mind.
No changes in game necessary. All is good.
Sorry for wasting time from everybody.
Messerjockel, Hibernia.
I actually kidnapped this thread a couple days ago in regards that I cannot solo play anymore because of stealth groups everywhere.
Since I played in stealth grp which kind of feels like solo play I changed my mind.
No changes in game necessary. All is good.
Sorry for wasting time from everybody.
Messerjockel, Hibernia.
Mon 27 Jul 2020 6:29 AM
by
Sepplord
are you just trolling messerjockel?
Mon 27 Jul 2020 7:10 AM
by
inoeth
Messerjockel wrote: ↑Sun 26 Jul 2020 10:58 AMPlayed in a stealth grp in the last day, 2 ns, 2 melee ranger, 1 bow ranger. Easy RPS all day. Solo visible no chance, 2-3 Visible enemies grouped we let go and sometimes we attacked but it could be risky and single or small grp stealth we killed easily.
I actually kidnapped this thread a couple days ago in regards that I cannot solo play anymore because of stealth groups everywhere.
Since I played in stealth grp which kind of feels like solo play I changed my mind.
No changes in game necessary. All is good.
Sorry for wasting time from everybody.
Messerjockel, Hibernia.
rofl ppl like you are part of the problem
Mon 27 Jul 2020 10:32 AM
by
Messerjockel
I found a solution to my problem.
To have a baseline for comparison I played visible alb yesterday, was killed 5 out of 10 time by more than 1 stealth, maybe grouped, maybe just by coincidence in the same area.
With that said, I feel that this server is over the point of no return in regards to assassin damage or the general stealth mechanic.
If you want to reduce damage from assassin than they start grouping and the chances for solo player or small man facing big stealth groups is increasing with less chances to win and increasing anger that it came to this point.
Messerjockel, Hibernia.
To have a baseline for comparison I played visible alb yesterday, was killed 5 out of 10 time by more than 1 stealth, maybe grouped, maybe just by coincidence in the same area.
With that said, I feel that this server is over the point of no return in regards to assassin damage or the general stealth mechanic.
If you want to reduce damage from assassin than they start grouping and the chances for solo player or small man facing big stealth groups is increasing with less chances to win and increasing anger that it came to this point.
Messerjockel, Hibernia.
Mon 27 Jul 2020 7:29 PM
by
Rhox
In my opinion assassin dmg is where it should be. That being said there is a large issue with assassin dmg but I don't think there is anyway to fix it. Also you can say the exact same thing about bow dmg currently.
Here is the issue and there is not a fix:
Assissins are like fine tuned MMA fighters. We are the tools, skills, and now a little more firepower so we can jump most classes and know that we will get a easy win (casters) and close fights (vs tanks or decent archers) These chances to win drop if we do not get a solid jump PA or BS or these targets. The issue resides in when the MMA fighters start hanging out together and running around preying on week targets docks etc.....
I cant tell you how many times i have been in a close fight with someone excited to push my skills and see the outcome just watch some other assassin come and PA my target or PA me..... then there is no chance to recover for most classes.
My 2 cents.
Here is the issue and there is not a fix:
Assissins are like fine tuned MMA fighters. We are the tools, skills, and now a little more firepower so we can jump most classes and know that we will get a easy win (casters) and close fights (vs tanks or decent archers) These chances to win drop if we do not get a solid jump PA or BS or these targets. The issue resides in when the MMA fighters start hanging out together and running around preying on week targets docks etc.....
I cant tell you how many times i have been in a close fight with someone excited to push my skills and see the outcome just watch some other assassin come and PA my target or PA me..... then there is no chance to recover for most classes.
My 2 cents.
Tue 28 Jul 2020 9:08 PM
by
OMNIGORD
Amser wrote: ↑Thu 23 Jul 2020 8:55 PMlong duration DoT (1 minute or more) with extremely low damage (1 damage per tick, 1 tick per ten seconds)
-Long duration DOT won't do anything. Stealth timer is based off of the first tick of a DOT. Not the last.
Large radius (like, 1000 units) extremely low damage (1 to 10 damage) pbaoe/gtaoe
-This sounds extremely broken for 8 mans, zerging, tower/keep defense, and all other play in the game.
stealth detection buff with long cast time (10 seconds) short duration (20-30 seconds) that provides a bonus potent enough to spot some low spec stealthers from up to 1000 units away (almost as far as standard dd range)
-There are already stealth pots available to any class in the game. Lasts 1min, and can be reused immediately.
I also disagree with your initial claim. There are lots of classes that have abilities to hunt/kill stealthers. Just not a lot visibles hunt stealthers because they just get run down by the same 8 mans that run down the stealthers. The visi's just get run down more because they can't hide as easily from the 8 mans.
I don't think that another castable interrupt would be "extremely broken" for 8v8, zerg, or seige (especially with no mention of cast/re-cast time) but if you are that worried about it just make it a debuff that has the effect "You cannot be stealthed". Either way those are just "back of the napkin" suggestions and there's no point in debating them unless you agree with my initial claim.
I stand by my initial claim that there is no class with a strong incentive and ability to hunt stealthers.
Mostly because any class that can hunt stealthers has no reason to specifically target stealthers rather than visibles because any tool they would use against a stealther is just as effective against a visible with the added bonus being that the visible is visible and therefor easier to locate.
Yes, the stealth pot is a slight mitigation on the effectiveness of stealth. And yes it will make it slightly easier for any given class to fight stealthers. But it will not make any class better at hunting stealthers than hunting visibles
Tue 28 Jul 2020 10:50 PM
by
gromet12
Rhox wrote: ↑Mon 27 Jul 2020 7:29 PMIn my opinion assassin dmg is where it should be. That being said there is a large issue with assassin dmg but I don't think there is anyway to fix it. Also you can say the exact same thing about bow dmg currently.
Here is the issue and there is not a fix:
Assissins are like fine tuned MMA fighters. We are the tools, skills, and now a little more firepower so we can jump most classes and know that we will get a easy win (casters) and close fights (vs tanks or decent archers) These chances to win drop if we do not get a solid jump PA or BS or these targets. The issue resides in when the MMA fighters start hanging out together and running around preying on week targets docks etc.....
I cant tell you how many times i have been in a close fight with someone excited to push my skills and see the outcome just watch some other assassin come and PA my target or PA me..... then there is no chance to recover for most classes.
My 2 cents.
A PA should lock out another PA for 15 secs
Viper doesn't belong here or give all classes access to the champ resist buffs
WS debuff doesn't belong here, give us full spec buffs then ok, but here too strong
DW shouldn't cut defenses (evade or block) and 2h parry
The main problem is the sins are playing a different version of the game than the rest of the classes and the class attracts the toxic community already
Wed 29 Jul 2020 3:34 AM
by
Lokkjim
gromet12 wrote: ↑Tue 28 Jul 2020 10:50 PMA PA should lock out another PA for 15 secs
Viper doesn't belong here or give all classes access to the champ resist buffs
WS debuff doesn't belong here, give us full spec buffs then ok, but here too strong
DW shouldn't cut defenses (evade or block) and 2h parry
The main problem is the sins are playing a different version of the game than the rest of the classes and the class attracts the toxic community already
- Locking out another PA/BS could work, but then the adder would need another way to stun like hibs currently have on their side stun.
- Viper isn't a big deal. I've said this before, the assassin has to spend 30 realm points to get 50 extra damage on their poison. Any class can spend 30 points to get 50 extra damage, not to mention you can purge, resist, and reduce the damage of the poison.
- Enervating poison was changed to weapon skill because of classes that rely on dex weapons or dex/str. It wasn't effective against those classes and Midgard got the bad end of it with all of their weapons relying on strength.
- Dual Wielding should cut defenses, you can't defend 2 areas of your body at the same time, every time.
Wed 29 Jul 2020 5:52 AM
by
Noashakra
Yeah let's go back to dual cutting 50%of the defenses and not 25% like on Phoenix... We have it so good here.
And it doesn't work on parry...
And it doesn't work on parry...
Fri 7 Aug 2020 8:51 PM
by
protege
Any solo spec tank/hybrid should be able to destroy an assassin without issues.
My Merc regularly rips through assassins that are much higher RR (even multiples) than I am -- without the use of DT.
Champs wreck assassins. Heavy tanks should be able to kill an assassin if played properly. Reavers destroy assassins. Minstrels should be able to kill assassins without issue. Archers can kill assassins. Light tanks also destroy assassins with RA5. Friars that are rr5+? Good luck.
What exactly is the issue here?
My Merc regularly rips through assassins that are much higher RR (even multiples) than I am -- without the use of DT.
Champs wreck assassins. Heavy tanks should be able to kill an assassin if played properly. Reavers destroy assassins. Minstrels should be able to kill assassins without issue. Archers can kill assassins. Light tanks also destroy assassins with RA5. Friars that are rr5+? Good luck.
What exactly is the issue here?
Fri 7 Aug 2020 9:23 PM
by
Messerjockel
There is no issue.
Damage is fine.
Just don’t solo in frontier and you are mostly safe from assassins.
Messerjockel, Hib
Damage is fine.
Just don’t solo in frontier and you are mostly safe from assassins.
Messerjockel, Hib
Fri 7 Aug 2020 9:35 PM
by
Noashakra
And maybe people should not complain when your group spec toon with deter 9 gets killed by a rr7L+ full solo spec too
Sat 8 Aug 2020 1:07 AM
by
gotwqqd
Yesprotege wrote: ↑Fri 7 Aug 2020 8:51 PMAny solo spec tank/hybrid should be able to destroy an assassin without issues.
My Merc regularly rips through assassins that are much higher RR (even multiples) than I am -- without the use of DT.
Champs wreck assassins. Heavy tanks should be able to kill an assassin if played properly. Reavers destroy assassins. Minstrels should be able to kill assassins without issue. Archers can kill assassins. Light tanks also destroy assassins with RA5. Friars that are rr5+? Good luck.
What exactly is the issue here?
Sun 9 Aug 2020 1:04 PM
by
Tyrlaan
The issue is that 3 classes which were a pest already have got their damage increased through some extra mechanic. No other proc applies its effect before hitting but somehow Con poison (and only poison, not Str/Con debuff proc weapons) does. And that´s helping vs. all classes you listed. And all these classes have every right to complain.
I´m not surprised though that dealing more damage isn´t an issue to you.
Fri 21 Aug 2020 8:47 PM
by
Eckso
Just saw this thread, and figured I would throw in my two cents. I think this is a good discussion to have overall, and many of you have brought up great points.
Man, there is a lot of misunderstanding here though. So first off, those players that are calling for assassins to be nerfed in damage, the answer is no. We already had our damage nerfed. A lot. The cap perf here as far as I can tell is around 550. That would be 50+21 crit, using a 4.2 Blade on hib anyway against a slash weak target. The max perf on live was near 1k right? It could be less, but not 550. So enjoy the fact that our openers are nowhere near as strong as they could be. This is of course taking resists into account. I assume all targets have a template. I think the damage has remained the same, which is ok, especially since the WS/Con poison now applies before damage.
Second, those calling for poisons to be changed, or immunities granted after purging, the answer is also no. Our poisons can already be resisted, purged, affected by Empty Mind, AoM, etc. Also our Weaponskill and Con debuff was changed, down to 100 from 118. Our Lifebane also only ticks every five seconds, and they made the good change I think, that re applying doesn't instantly re start the tick.
This leads into people asking for bag weapons and swapping to be nerfed, again no. The whole reason we have to carry around 10-15 weapons is because we have to watch for resists, purges, then if we get a kill and move onto the adders, got to swap. Really you're going to try and force us to only poison the weapons equipped? Come on....I would even be ok with this as a change, but then the poison applied to the weapons equipped doesnt consume the charge, and is always applied and to zero resist rate or something. Thats bonkers to me though.
Finally I feel like there is a general failure to understand Roles in this game. For those people saying an assassin should always lose to X, or a certain class is to be favored. The assassins main role is to kill. Now some targets may be more difficult than others due to rank and class, but any assassin should be able to kill their target at least 50% of the time.
There is already a Rock Paper Scissors method built into the game, at least for melee. Two hand gets a bonus to parry over dual wielders. Shield gets a bonus to block against two handers, and Dual Wielders decrease the chance to block, though this was decreased from 50% down to 25%, again a nerf in my view.
So are assassins over tuned? No. Do they need a nerf? No. Is there room for more changes? Certainly. I loved the changes they made to Scouts for example, giving them the 99% snare.
As far as the stealth game goes I feel like Phoenix is actually in a good place. Our poisons are not too over powered, you all have access to Stealth Lore potions, and there are lots of soloers, small mans, and even full groups of stealthers from time to time.
If we are talking about making any changes, the ones I would personally like to see:
1) Access to Celt Nightshades on Hib. I think that's fair, and it would open up specs that Luri and Elf cannot go. I tried going 50 Celtic Dual, and the damage was terrible due to such low str stat. I tried with pierce too, but our styles just dont warrant using the spec line the way ShadowBlades and Infs can in their Left Axe and Dual Wield respectively
2) Minstrels need a quick look. I think its crap that they can SoS away but their pet can still do damage and not break their speed. If a hunter uses his speed, and his pet does damage, the speed breaks...
3) Access to Dodger again. I think the HP buff to everyone and stagnant damage for assassins should allow us to have at least one method of increasing our defense. Every other class that has a shield or the ability to parry can augment it. Why not us?
4) Along that same line, if we dont get dodger, maybe give us Ignore pain? Just a thought
Hope this helps further the conversation. I look forward to being thoroughly eviscerated on this forum, as you guys are much more knowledgeable than I. Lets keep this server alive. I love DaoC!
Cheers
-Exo
Man, there is a lot of misunderstanding here though. So first off, those players that are calling for assassins to be nerfed in damage, the answer is no. We already had our damage nerfed. A lot. The cap perf here as far as I can tell is around 550. That would be 50+21 crit, using a 4.2 Blade on hib anyway against a slash weak target. The max perf on live was near 1k right? It could be less, but not 550. So enjoy the fact that our openers are nowhere near as strong as they could be. This is of course taking resists into account. I assume all targets have a template. I think the damage has remained the same, which is ok, especially since the WS/Con poison now applies before damage.
Second, those calling for poisons to be changed, or immunities granted after purging, the answer is also no. Our poisons can already be resisted, purged, affected by Empty Mind, AoM, etc. Also our Weaponskill and Con debuff was changed, down to 100 from 118. Our Lifebane also only ticks every five seconds, and they made the good change I think, that re applying doesn't instantly re start the tick.
This leads into people asking for bag weapons and swapping to be nerfed, again no. The whole reason we have to carry around 10-15 weapons is because we have to watch for resists, purges, then if we get a kill and move onto the adders, got to swap. Really you're going to try and force us to only poison the weapons equipped? Come on....I would even be ok with this as a change, but then the poison applied to the weapons equipped doesnt consume the charge, and is always applied and to zero resist rate or something. Thats bonkers to me though.
Finally I feel like there is a general failure to understand Roles in this game. For those people saying an assassin should always lose to X, or a certain class is to be favored. The assassins main role is to kill. Now some targets may be more difficult than others due to rank and class, but any assassin should be able to kill their target at least 50% of the time.
There is already a Rock Paper Scissors method built into the game, at least for melee. Two hand gets a bonus to parry over dual wielders. Shield gets a bonus to block against two handers, and Dual Wielders decrease the chance to block, though this was decreased from 50% down to 25%, again a nerf in my view.
So are assassins over tuned? No. Do they need a nerf? No. Is there room for more changes? Certainly. I loved the changes they made to Scouts for example, giving them the 99% snare.
As far as the stealth game goes I feel like Phoenix is actually in a good place. Our poisons are not too over powered, you all have access to Stealth Lore potions, and there are lots of soloers, small mans, and even full groups of stealthers from time to time.
If we are talking about making any changes, the ones I would personally like to see:
1) Access to Celt Nightshades on Hib. I think that's fair, and it would open up specs that Luri and Elf cannot go. I tried going 50 Celtic Dual, and the damage was terrible due to such low str stat. I tried with pierce too, but our styles just dont warrant using the spec line the way ShadowBlades and Infs can in their Left Axe and Dual Wield respectively
2) Minstrels need a quick look. I think its crap that they can SoS away but their pet can still do damage and not break their speed. If a hunter uses his speed, and his pet does damage, the speed breaks...
3) Access to Dodger again. I think the HP buff to everyone and stagnant damage for assassins should allow us to have at least one method of increasing our defense. Every other class that has a shield or the ability to parry can augment it. Why not us?
4) Along that same line, if we dont get dodger, maybe give us Ignore pain? Just a thought
Hope this helps further the conversation. I look forward to being thoroughly eviscerated on this forum, as you guys are much more knowledgeable than I. Lets keep this server alive. I love DaoC!
Cheers
-Exo
Fri 21 Aug 2020 9:45 PM
by
protege
Tyrlaan wrote: ↑Sun 9 Aug 2020 1:04 PM
The issue is that 3 classes which were a pest already have got their damage increased through some extra mechanic. No other proc applies its effect before hitting but somehow Con poison (and only poison, not Str/Con debuff proc weapons) does. And that´s helping vs. all classes you listed. And all these classes have every right to complain.
I´m not surprised though that dealing more damage isn´t an issue to you.
Because the SB listed in my signature is the only char I play, right?
Even with the buffs to stealthers, every single class I mentioned in my previous post still rips through assassins if they are the same skill level as the assassin.
Get it?
Fri 21 Aug 2020 10:40 PM
by
Freedomcall
Eckso wrote: ↑Fri 21 Aug 2020 8:47 PMJust saw this thread, and figured I would throw in my two cents. I think this is a good discussion to have overall, and many of you have brought up great points.
If we are talking about making any changes, the ones I would personally like to see:
1) Access to Celt Nightshades on Hib. I think that's fair, and it would open up specs that Luri and Elf cannot go. I tried going 50 Celtic Dual, and the damage was terrible due to such low str stat. I tried with pierce too, but our styles just dont warrant using the spec line the way ShadowBlades and Infs can in their Left Axe and Dual Wield respectively
2) Minstrels need a quick look. I think its crap that they can SoS away but their pet can still do damage and not break their speed. If a hunter uses his speed, and his pet does damage, the speed breaks...
3) Access to Dodger again. I think the HP buff to everyone and stagnant damage for assassins should allow us to have at least one method of increasing our defense. Every other class that has a shield or the ability to parry can augment it. Why not us?
4) Along that same line, if we dont get dodger, maybe give us Ignore pain? Just a thought
Hard no on suggestion 1, 3, 4.
1) Enabling Celt NS is a huge buff for the class. It is like giving 20 str/con bonus to NS for free.
Some people say celt lose 20 dex/qui instead, but it is never a trade-off and getting str/con is much better choice.
Introducing Celt NS will break the balance on ssin wars.
50CD for NS sucks because the growthrate for side chain was intentionally nerfed on Phoenix,
and there is no good anytimer like Dual shadows(even this is frontal, it is almost used as anytimer on duels) from DW or Double Frost from LA.
So Celt NS won't change anything about this anyway.
3) Please, no. Dodger will make assassins extremely OP and make these classes almost untouchable on 1v1.
And dodger will make ssin fights boring as well.
You want to see both ssins evading 40%+ to each other? =P
4) Giving IP to assassins will simply ruin this game.
Believe me, once assassins get IP, they will literally wreck every single class regardless of its spec.
Assassins have vanish instead and that's enough.
And on a side note about 2), hunters actually don't lose speed even when their pet does damage.
I'm not saying current SoS mechanics within pet is right or wrong, but just saying how hunter speed warp actually works..
Fri 21 Aug 2020 11:06 PM
by
LolaEbola
[/quote]
Because the SB listed in my signature is the only char I play, right?
[/quote]
The SB listed in my signature really IS the only char I play. I solo with it, I duo with it, I run dorky visible small man with a few friends sometimes. Hell, I lead BGs with it.
That said, I feel like we’re in a pretty alright place, balance wise. I win a lot, I lose a fair bit too. I’m fine with a nerf too if the community really wants it. I’ll adapt. I always have. I’ll tell you one thing though, it’s not gonna save many of you casters. <3
Edit- I messed up the quote, but y’all get what I was going for, I’m not gonna bother with fixing it.
Because the SB listed in my signature is the only char I play, right?
[/quote]
The SB listed in my signature really IS the only char I play. I solo with it, I duo with it, I run dorky visible small man with a few friends sometimes. Hell, I lead BGs with it.
That said, I feel like we’re in a pretty alright place, balance wise. I win a lot, I lose a fair bit too. I’m fine with a nerf too if the community really wants it. I’ll adapt. I always have. I’ll tell you one thing though, it’s not gonna save many of you casters. <3
Edit- I messed up the quote, but y’all get what I was going for, I’m not gonna bother with fixing it.
Fri 21 Aug 2020 11:19 PM
by
thirian24
People want things nerfed when they aren't smart/good enough to counter the other player.
BUT, these topics come up, much like the nerf wanted for archers, b/c 95% of the stealth community are fucking scum and they earn a bad reputation for everyone.
BUT, these topics come up, much like the nerf wanted for archers, b/c 95% of the stealth community are fucking scum and they earn a bad reputation for everyone.
Sat 22 Aug 2020 12:10 AM
by
LolaEbola
thirian24 wrote: ↑Fri 21 Aug 2020 11:19 PMPeople want things nerfed when they aren't smart/good enough to counter the other player.
BUT, these topics come up, much like the nerf wanted for archers, b/c 95% of the stealth community are fucking scum and they earn a bad reputation for everyone.
I’m curious, what makes a player “fucking scum” in your eyes? I feel like that’s a rather harsh thing to throw at 95% of stealthers.
Sat 22 Aug 2020 12:41 AM
by
The Skies Asunder
Freedomcall wrote: ↑Fri 21 Aug 2020 10:40 PMEckso wrote: ↑Fri 21 Aug 2020 8:47 PMJust saw this thread, and figured I would throw in my two cents. I think this is a good discussion to have overall, and many of you have brought up great points.
If we are talking about making any changes, the ones I would personally like to see:
1) Access to Celt Nightshades on Hib. I think that's fair, and it would open up specs that Luri and Elf cannot go. I tried going 50 Celtic Dual, and the damage was terrible due to such low str stat. I tried with pierce too, but our styles just dont warrant using the spec line the way ShadowBlades and Infs can in their Left Axe and Dual Wield respectively
2) Minstrels need a quick look. I think its crap that they can SoS away but their pet can still do damage and not break their speed. If a hunter uses his speed, and his pet does damage, the speed breaks...
3) Access to Dodger again. I think the HP buff to everyone and stagnant damage for assassins should allow us to have at least one method of increasing our defense. Every other class that has a shield or the ability to parry can augment it. Why not us?
4) Along that same line, if we dont get dodger, maybe give us Ignore pain? Just a thought
Hard no on suggestion 1, 3, 4.
1) Enabling Celt NS is a huge buff for the class. It is like giving 20 str/con bonus to NS for free.
Some people say celt lose 20 dex/qui instead, but it is never a trade-off and getting str/con is much better choice.
Introducing Celt NS will break the balance on ssin wars.
50CD for NS sucks because the growthrate for side chain was intentionally nerfed on Phoenix,
and there is no good anytimer like Dual shadows(even this is frontal, it is almost used as anytimer on duels) from DW or Double Frost from LA.
So Celt NS won't change anything about this anyway.
3) Please, no. Dodger will make assassins extremely OP and make these classes almost untouchable on 1v1.
And dodger will make ssin fights boring as well.
You want to see both ssins evading 40%+ to each other? =P
4) Giving IP to assassins will simply ruin this game.
Believe me, once assassins get IP, they will literally wreck every single class regardless of its spec.
Assassins have vanish instead and that's enough.
And on a side note about 2), hunters actually don't lose speed even when their pet does damage.
I'm not saying current SoS mechanics within pet is right or wrong, but just saying how hunter speed warp actually works..
I haven't been involved in this thread at all, but I will always be here for Celt NS. Dodger and IP seem like over the top ideas though. Assassins don't really need a nerf at all IMO.
Sat 22 Aug 2020 2:07 AM
by
LolaEbola
The Skies Asunder wrote: ↑Sat 22 Aug 2020 12:41 AMFreedomcall wrote: ↑Fri 21 Aug 2020 10:40 PMEckso wrote: ↑Fri 21 Aug 2020 8:47 PMJust saw this thread, and figured I would throw in my two cents. I think this is a good discussion to have overall, and many of you have brought up great points.
If we are talking about making any changes, the ones I would personally like to see:
1) Access to Celt Nightshades on Hib. I think that's fair, and it would open up specs that Luri and Elf cannot go. I tried going 50 Celtic Dual, and the damage was terrible due to such low str stat. I tried with pierce too, but our styles just dont warrant using the spec line the way ShadowBlades and Infs can in their Left Axe and Dual Wield respectively
2) Minstrels need a quick look. I think its crap that they can SoS away but their pet can still do damage and not break their speed. If a hunter uses his speed, and his pet does damage, the speed breaks...
3) Access to Dodger again. I think the HP buff to everyone and stagnant damage for assassins should allow us to have at least one method of increasing our defense. Every other class that has a shield or the ability to parry can augment it. Why not us?
4) Along that same line, if we dont get dodger, maybe give us Ignore pain? Just a thought
Hard no on suggestion 1, 3, 4.
1) Enabling Celt NS is a huge buff for the class. It is like giving 20 str/con bonus to NS for free.
Some people say celt lose 20 dex/qui instead, but it is never a trade-off and getting str/con is much better choice.
Introducing Celt NS will break the balance on ssin wars.
50CD for NS sucks because the growthrate for side chain was intentionally nerfed on Phoenix,
and there is no good anytimer like Dual shadows(even this is frontal, it is almost used as anytimer on duels) from DW or Double Frost from LA.
So Celt NS won't change anything about this anyway.
3) Please, no. Dodger will make assassins extremely OP and make these classes almost untouchable on 1v1.
And dodger will make ssin fights boring as well.
You want to see both ssins evading 40%+ to each other? =P
4) Giving IP to assassins will simply ruin this game.
Believe me, once assassins get IP, they will literally wreck every single class regardless of its spec.
Assassins have vanish instead and that's enough.
And on a side note about 2), hunters actually don't lose speed even when their pet does damage.
I'm not saying current SoS mechanics within pet is right or wrong, but just saying how hunter speed warp actually works..
I haven't been involved in this thread at all, but I will always be here for Celt NS. Dodger and IP seem like over the top ideas though. Assassins don't really need a nerf at all IMO.
As a Norse shadowblade, im perfectly fine with these guys having celt nightshades.
Sat 22 Aug 2020 8:50 AM
by
Freedomcall
LolaEbola wrote: ↑Sat 22 Aug 2020 2:07 AMThe Skies Asunder wrote: ↑Sat 22 Aug 2020 12:41 AMFreedomcall wrote: ↑Fri 21 Aug 2020 10:40 PMEckso wrote: ↑Fri 21 Aug 2020 8:47 PMJust saw this thread, and figured I would throw in my two cents. I think this is a good discussion to have overall, and many of you have brought up great points.
If we are talking about making any changes, the ones I would personally like to see:
1) Access to Celt Nightshades on Hib. I think that's fair, and it would open up specs that Luri and Elf cannot go. I tried going 50 Celtic Dual, and the damage was terrible due to such low str stat. I tried with pierce too, but our styles just dont warrant using the spec line the way ShadowBlades and Infs can in their Left Axe and Dual Wield respectively
2) Minstrels need a quick look. I think its crap that they can SoS away but their pet can still do damage and not break their speed. If a hunter uses his speed, and his pet does damage, the speed breaks...
3) Access to Dodger again. I think the HP buff to everyone and stagnant damage for assassins should allow us to have at least one method of increasing our defense. Every other class that has a shield or the ability to parry can augment it. Why not us?
4) Along that same line, if we dont get dodger, maybe give us Ignore pain? Just a thought
Hard no on suggestion 1, 3, 4.
1) Enabling Celt NS is a huge buff for the class. It is like giving 20 str/con bonus to NS for free.
Some people say celt lose 20 dex/qui instead, but it is never a trade-off and getting str/con is much better choice.
Introducing Celt NS will break the balance on ssin wars.
50CD for NS sucks because the growthrate for side chain was intentionally nerfed on Phoenix,
and there is no good anytimer like Dual shadows(even this is frontal, it is almost used as anytimer on duels) from DW or Double Frost from LA.
So Celt NS won't change anything about this anyway.
3) Please, no. Dodger will make assassins extremely OP and make these classes almost untouchable on 1v1.
And dodger will make ssin fights boring as well.
You want to see both ssins evading 40%+ to each other? =P
4) Giving IP to assassins will simply ruin this game.
Believe me, once assassins get IP, they will literally wreck every single class regardless of its spec.
Assassins have vanish instead and that's enough.
And on a side note about 2), hunters actually don't lose speed even when their pet does damage.
I'm not saying current SoS mechanics within pet is right or wrong, but just saying how hunter speed warp actually works..
I haven't been involved in this thread at all, but I will always be here for Celt NS. Dodger and IP seem like over the top ideas though. Assassins don't really need a nerf at all IMO.
As a Norse shadowblade, im perfectly fine with these guys having celt nightshades.
You guys don't understand how much +20 str/con is important in 1v1.
Celt NS gets 93-94 more hp than luri/elf and, of course, +20 str as well which is equivalent to AugStr5(ish).
Losing -20 dex is almost nothing to Blades NS and although -20 qui will affect them a bit, it is not even close to having +20 con/str.
I am playing all 3 assassins so I'm not just saying this on behalf of SB or Infil.
I was one of the people who believed, and said, SB was not weak to NS since the server launch when all the SBs were whining about this on forum.
But I was always opposed to introducing Celt NS because I knew this will break the balance hard.
If you want to have a look at the power of 20 str/con, I suggest you try out Koby SB instead of Norse one.
hp per con for SB is a bit different compared to NS/Infil but you will be able to see the rough idea anyway.
Sat 22 Aug 2020 9:26 AM
by
thirian24
As far as assassins go, they are extremely evenly matched. Doing anything to one of them would really throw the balance off. Leave them alone.
Sat 22 Aug 2020 9:57 AM
by
Lokkjim
LolaEbola wrote: ↑Sat 22 Aug 2020 2:07 AMAs a Norse shadowblade, im perfectly fine with these guys having celt nightshades.
There's a good chance that if Hibernia gets access to Celt Nightshades, it will be overpowered. They could just go slash and everything, save Midgard chain, is vulnerable or neutral.
Sat 22 Aug 2020 3:41 PM
by
protege
Celt nightshades at this patch level would be ridiculously overpowered for assassin v assassin.
Sat 22 Aug 2020 11:26 PM
by
LolaEbola
Yeah, y’all are probably right. /shrug
Sun 23 Aug 2020 3:04 AM
by
Eckso
What I am hearing is you are all fine with us having 20 less con and str, when you get it. Is it that Nightshades would be OP, or would it be more fair?
I think its the latter.
I think its the latter.
Sun 23 Aug 2020 5:52 AM
by
Lokkjim
Eckso wrote: ↑Sun 23 Aug 2020 3:04 AMWhat I am hearing is you are all fine with us having 20 less con and str, when you get it. Is it that Nightshades would be OP, or would it be more fair?
I think its the latter.
You want celt nightshades? Give up slash advantages, Hib slash is neutral to Alb and strong against mid leather/studded. Albion infs can only be good against Hib (neutral with thrust) or Mid (leather/studded vulnerable with slash), not both. Midgard SBs only get slash which is neutral to alb and resistant to hib leather/studded while scale is vulnerable. Alb and Mid assassins get the race advantages because they don't have the damage type advantage. If this happened, Hib would probably get another fotm class in nightshades and there is more than enough complaining about assassins and stealth zergs. We don't need more.
P.S. Hib also gets melee rangers, you want a tankier stealth melee? Play a ranger.
Sun 23 Aug 2020 6:27 AM
by
Cadebrennus
Lokkjim wrote: ↑Sun 23 Aug 2020 5:52 AMEckso wrote: ↑Sun 23 Aug 2020 3:04 AMWhat I am hearing is you are all fine with us having 20 less con and str, when you get it. Is it that Nightshades would be OP, or would it be more fair?
I think its the latter.
You want celt nightshades? Give up slash advantages, Hib slash is neutral to Alb and strong against mid leather/studded. Albion infs can only be good against Hib (neutral with thrust) or Mid (leather/studded vulnerable with slash), not both. Midgard SBs only get slash which is neutral to alb and resistant to hib leather/studded while scale is vulnerable. Alb and Mid assassins get the race advantages because they don't have the damage type advantage. If this happened, Hib would probably get another fotm class in nightshades and there is more than enough complaining about assassins and stealth zergs. We don't need more.
P.S. Hib also gets melee rangers, you want a tankier stealth melee? Play a ranger.
Getting rid of the evade stuns from Blades and Slash would go a long way towards balance.
Sun 23 Aug 2020 5:56 PM
by
protege
Eckso wrote: ↑Sun 23 Aug 2020 3:04 AMWhat I am hearing is you are all fine with us having 20 less con and str, when you get it. Is it that Nightshades would be OP, or would it be more fair?
I think its the latter.
Nightshades would be overpowered, yes. They're already, imho, the strongest assassin. You have one assassin that will give you a run for your money -- Thrust Infils. You should wreck most shadowblades and slash infils 90% of the time.
Sun 23 Aug 2020 6:05 PM
by
Sabatasso79
Bry wrote: ↑Tue 14 Jul 2020 4:49 PMWhen a rank 9 caster with pd5 and purge up dies to a rank 2 inf, there is something wrong. The caster used heart of legion and a heal pot and still died after purgeing the CD stun immediately. No counterplay. This needs to be adjusted. Assassin dmg is still way overtuned.
Baffling that people seem to think that high realm rank on glass cannons should somehow be equivalent of having the right to instantly win against lower ranked solo focused classes. Particularly funny since cloth users primarily were the intended main target of assassin classes... The caster simply shouldn't have found himself in that situation without a friendly healer around.
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