Wrong mechanic bowusage in Meleecombat, no interupt timer

On this server u have no interrupt timer after Melee for Bowusage, which makes especially Scout very strong. When the archer, lets take Scout, is in melee combat and use slam, he can imidiatly do a critshot after slam. This is wrong. Depending on the Weapon Delay of his Attacker, he should be interrupted for the Weapondelay of his opponent, wich means, if scout was attacked with a 5.5 delay weapon, he is delayed to use bow for the same time, wich makes this mechanic vs quick weapons more usefull then vs slow weapons. Source -> http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/archery_bow_mechanics.html
Issue Timeline

U are kidding us? link mechanix was written long time ago and is correct, works correct on other servers. ONLY case a scout should be able to crit shot a target twice is slam on a target out of fight, cause described delay then not is up, in your case scout is able to do 2 critshot on target WHENEVER he slam and opponent has purge not ready, thats a joke or? he is not rupted from NOW stunned target but from the swing on him before!!!
gruenesschaf 2 days ago

Closing as invalid
gruenesschaf 8 days ago

The explanation is wrong. The archer should not be interrupted from a now stunned target, it should just not be a valid crit shot target until the delay is over, but that’s not the full weapon speed but the speed after haste / qui
Tool73 11 days ago

Would like to have a little discus on this.

Sun 30 Sep 2018 1:49 PM by Glimmer

Check this video: https://youtu.be/HsI2zbRZVTI?t=41 you will not see any rupt message after his slam actions.

Sun 30 Sep 2018 2:25 PM by

gruenesschaf

Hm looks actually like Tool73 is correct. We removed incapacitated targets (stunned, mezzed, dead) from interrupts quite some time ago, just did a test on live and it looks like that's wrong. Will change it soonish to no longer ignore those. This also affects caster.

Mon 1 Oct 2018 6:31 PM by poisonclover

Critical Shot check is bugged here on so many levels.

It switches to normal shot for the dumbest reason often no reason at all.

Bard sitting, crit...switched to normal shot for whatever reason.. he was in combat in his pocket I'm assuming.

player running with weapons out...switches to normal shot.. no clue why...maybe running with staff out in combat?

Player running with weapons out, switches to normal shot. Need the check to be addressed. works sometimes and others just doesn't and its hard to pinpoint why because I cant tell what the other person is doing aside from standing still doing nothing. The moving targets I'm assuming there running with there weapons out, which shouldn't be a thing. but always was.

Mon 1 Oct 2018 10:49 PM by

gruenesschaf

Crit shot is not supposed to work against running targets, regardless of them having their weapon out or not, running is defined by being faster than a certain movement speed.

Mon 1 Oct 2018 11:35 PM by Cadebrennus

If a target is in combat or casting but staying still it should be a valid target for a critshot. If not it is a bug.

Tue 2 Oct 2018 4:53 PM by Waygone

I leveled my scout to 50 yesterday and noticed that there were times after slam(stun) I'd switch to bow and attempt critshot only to be interrupted and have to wait a couple seconds to get s regular shot off (since not enough time left on stun for critshot). I saw that the patch notes pointed out that stunned, incapacitated targets can interrupt bow and casting. This seems really cooky to me. How can a player or npc interrupt you when they're not doing ANYTHING at all? Has anyone else noticed this? Is it, as stated, affecting casters as well? I would like to see how hib, or any caster wouldn't be screaming bloody murder if this was happening.
The other thing is, it seems completely random. Like nothing I or the mob does affects this mechanic. Is this as intended? If so, is there ANY workaround to prevent it?

Tue 2 Oct 2018 5:08 PM by Magesty

There was always a delay between slam (melee combat) and when you could shoot or cast. The way it was working here was not correct. I’m not sure if this is exactly what you are talking about, but on live I remember using the extra time before I could cast/shoot to get a little distance and run a few steps away.

Tue 2 Oct 2018 5:15 PM by Dominus

and definitely no way enough time for 2 crit shots, which seemed the norm here till the fix.

Tue 2 Oct 2018 5:16 PM by Waygone

Even if I intentionally slow down the process it will happen unexpectedly. Other times it won't happen even if I immediately switch to bow and critshot. It appears to be completely random. Besides, it an actual "interrupt" message, not just a delay.
Pretty darn confusing

Tue 2 Oct 2018 5:31 PM by

gruenesschaf

It is meant to be an interrupt message as the attacker hit you before. I tested this mechanic before doing the change with an armsman on pend:
You slam a target that has not hit you -> you can instantly take out your xbow and shoot as normal
You slam a target that has hit you right before -> you can instantly take out your xbow and shoot but will get an interrupt message, if you wait a bit / are too slow you won't be interrupted as the interrupt duration is the enemies swing delay

Tue 2 Oct 2018 5:46 PM by Waygone

Good to know @gruenesschaff
I will try and time slam better then.
Thanks for the quick response

Tue 2 Oct 2018 6:47 PM by poisonclover

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Oct 2018 10:49 PM
Crit shot is not supposed to work against running targets, regardless of them having their weapon out or not, running is defined by being faster than a certain movement speed.

if that's true.. Then Its definitely broke, I crit running people all the time. And by your definition, anyone with Free Realm speed is above that "Certain" movement speed with their Endo pot and sprinting, therefore explains why crit shots randomly switch to normal shots. what's the point of it then?> your limiting a character to be somewhere that people would not be moving.. milegates,keeps,flag captures etc. and therefore shouldn't the damage be much higher with those limitations of its actual use?

Why would an assassin be able to PA a moving target and an archer not supposed to crit one?

Tue 2 Oct 2018 6:54 PM by Waygone

To me, if you can't critshot on a moving target it would break archers even more. Like you said, how often in RVR is someone just standing?

Tue 2 Oct 2018 7:35 PM by Leith

It's about the sprint abbility not about the actual speed iirc

Tue 2 Oct 2018 7:52 PM by

gruenesschaf

Please note that critical shot will work against targets that are: sitting, standing still (which includes standing in combat mode but not actively swinging at something), walking, moving backwards, strafing, or casting a spell. Critical shot will not work against targets that are: running, in active combat (swinging at something), or mezzed. Stunned targets may be critical shot once any timers from active combat have expired if they are not yet free to act; i.e.: they may not be critical shot until their weapon delay timer has run out after their last attack, they may be critical shot during the period between the weapon delay running out and the stun wearing off, and they may not be critical shot once they have begun swinging again. If the target was in melee with an archer, the critical shot may not be drawn against them until after their weapon delay has run out or it will be interrupted.

Tue 2 Oct 2018 8:21 PM by colechar

Waygone wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Oct 2018 6:54 PM
To me, if you can't critshot on a moving target it would break archers even more. Like you said, how often in RVR is someone just standing?

Looks like schaf answered your question; the only real opportunity for crit shot is against casters which is probably why all cloth casters got self blade turn. This is how it has been for a long time, though. Not something unique to this server.