Make DF best feather farm spot

Change my mind

Edit for more context :

I think the more you think about it, and what it incentivizes, it works.

DF is dead now since tasks.

This will make even pve'rs badly want to help keep takes like they used to.

Make seals trade in for feathers or something of value, nobody wants the gear from DF , I don't even get good returns on seals for salvaging anything at all in there.

Even if we changed nothing getting a feather bonus for fighting highlv mobs in a pvp zone would be probably the easiest way to implement.

Thu 20 Sep 2018 2:51 AM by defiasbandit

I think having DF drop higher feathers could work. Problem is it sorta makes the dungeons/raids not matter as much. The PvE crowd could be hurt by that. We want them to have something special as well.

I sort of liked it when DF was neutral. Imagine if it was neutral and had the highest feather farm.

Thu 20 Sep 2018 10:54 AM by Hedien

I agree - now that the DF drops or gold farming is not interesting. And that xp has decent alternatives outside of DF, this becomes an obsolete RVR spot.

Make it the long term best feather farm seems to make sense.

Hed / Grim

Thu 20 Sep 2018 11:27 AM by

Uthred

Df is still the best xp spot because of FZ and dungeon bonus. Feathers were never meant to be "farmable" in big masses, so we will not add any farm spots. If you want to get many feathers, you have to kill bosses.

I agree, there is not much action atm in DF. But i think it is not only because of the tasks. One reason is that the population in general is quite low atm (max 450) and another reason is that most of the players dont xp new toons at this phase of the beta, because they are waiting for i50.

We are aware of the situation and we are monitoring it. We also had some discussions about it, but atm we are fine with many people in fz. Im pretty sure, as soon as the server goes live, there will be a lot of people that would like to xp and farm in DF. We might also add some changes, nothing to publish now, but we are thinking about some things.

But, to make it pretty clear: We will not add more feathers or featherspots.

Thu 20 Sep 2018 12:40 PM by Yint

But, to make it pretty clear: We will not add more feathers or featherspots.

I hope this doesnt mean tears/ash as well. I think farming DF for pots makes great sense, risk of rvr zone and high end pve. Better to have groups competing for nice spots in DF rather than in the safety of Avalon city or the like. If any metric would be used i would say it should be more tears/hr than AC to farm in DF on purp mobs(ie diamond seals).

Thu 20 Sep 2018 4:49 PM by Armsmancer

Thanks for the detailed answer Uthred. It's probably best not to make a big change. I did not imagine it would be a huge endeavor to add feather drop bonus like +keeps bonus when you get a feather. This alone would be a nice option to have even for some event like on weekends or something. Make DF great again!

Thu 20 Sep 2018 4:55 PM by Cadebrennus

I think a way to make DF a hotbed of activity regarding feathers is a great idea. What if seals could be turned in for feathers? It would certainly help the people who don't always have time to raid for feathers

Fri 21 Sep 2018 10:34 AM by Kaziera

Well there are some bosses in df, you know? Might aswell farm them.

Fri 21 Sep 2018 11:03 AM by vadox

@Uthred,
In Trollheim , bosses spawn in close proximity to each other and 1 or 2 groups of player live there 24/7 farming, yes farming, feathers. Even hard core pvpers farm feathers more than fighting other players. You see people in rvr zones but mostly because it is beta. On live , we might see 90% of population trying to get feathers all day long and doing nothing else.

It is a great concept but needs massive adjustment. For now, you probably should remove this "feather" business and rethink on how to get them and what to use them for. There are many other things to spend time on and even if you think Phoenix will have larger population - still not enough to split players between all the activities team Phoenix introduced. Just too much, imo.

Other server has a team of ancient dragons who sat in their layer and not wanting change till offsprings started to fly away. Phoenix, on other hand, went bit overboard in QoL. It's all great if we had 2k+ regular population but it will never happen.

Fri 21 Sep 2018 1:14 PM by florin

I find myself farming feathers more than I would like - for a casual with small kids and work, sitting in AC at midnight farming is not my notion of fun. Why? cause I cant make the raids that run at 2pm while I'm at work - should I make one raid, likely I won't get the drop so now I sit killing purples for feathers to get gear that you say is not strictly necessary but that's not true - because someone else will have it and if you don't then youre at a disadvantage.

Fri 21 Sep 2018 5:37 PM by defiasbandit

Feather farming in dungeons like AC, Trollheim, etc is pretty boring. Feather prices are also high.

Mon 1 Oct 2018 6:34 PM by Armsmancer

Oct 1st :
- phoenix tears / ash can drop from level 56+ mobs in df
- feathers have been removed from trashmobs outside of the epic dungeons and df
- feathers on trashmobs in df increase slowly with their level

Mon 1 Oct 2018 6:39 PM by defiasbandit

Imagine if DF was neutral with the new changes. What if DF was neutral, but only one realm got the feather drop bonus from mobs.

Owning the most keeps gives you access to feather drops in DF, but the dungeons is neutral.

Tue 2 Oct 2018 4:51 PM by Armsmancer

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Oct 2018 6:39 PM
Imagine if DF was neutral with the new changes. What if DF was neutral, but only one realm got the feather drop bonus from mobs.

Owning the most keeps gives you access to feather drops in DF, but the dungeons is neutral.

That removes incentive for keep takes which was part of this so, no.

Tue 2 Oct 2018 5:50 PM by defiasbandit

Armsmancer wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Oct 2018 4:51 PM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Oct 2018 6:39 PM
Imagine if DF was neutral with the new changes. What if DF was neutral, but only one realm got the feather drop bonus from mobs.

Owning the most keeps gives you access to feather drops in DF, but the dungeons is neutral.

That removes incentive for keep takes which was part of this so, no.

Imagine if Alb can't secure darkness falls early on. Caer Sidi is a nightmare. Albion might fall so far behind on feathers and get left in the dust.

There needs to be other places to feather farm like the frontier zones.

This whole thing presents potential issues.

Feathers belong in DF, but there should be other RvR alternatives.

Tue 2 Oct 2018 11:51 PM by Armsmancer

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Oct 2018 5:50 PM
Armsmancer wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Oct 2018 4:51 PM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Oct 2018 6:39 PM
Imagine if DF was neutral with the new changes. What if DF was neutral, but only one realm got the feather drop bonus from mobs.

Owning the most keeps gives you access to feather drops in DF, but the dungeons is neutral.

That removes incentive for keep takes which was part of this so, no.

Imagine if Alb can't secure darkness falls early on. Caer Sidi is a nightmare. Albion might fall so far behind on feathers and get left in the dust.

There needs to be other places to feather farm like the frontier zones.

This whole thing presents potential issues.

Feathers belong in DF, but there should be other RvR alternatives.

Your fallacy is that they shouldn't fall behind early on in that case. That is on them and they need to muster if they want DF. I don't understand this trophy for everyone / no consequences / equality of outcomes approach to any potential problem. Disparity is the rule, not the exception. If all 3 realms were balanced in their progress that would be the exception, the expectation is that there will be a first place, a second place, and a third place, and there's no reason to put in place safeguards aside from incentives to correct the imbalance.

Wed 3 Oct 2018 12:37 AM by defiasbandit

Armsmancer wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Oct 2018 11:51 PM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Oct 2018 5:50 PM
Armsmancer wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Oct 2018 4:51 PM
That removes incentive for keep takes which was part of this so, no.

Imagine if Alb can't secure darkness falls early on. Caer Sidi is a nightmare. Albion might fall so far behind on feathers and get left in the dust.

There needs to be other places to feather farm like the frontier zones.

This whole thing presents potential issues.

Feathers belong in DF, but there should be other RvR alternatives.

Your fallacy is that they shouldn't fall behind early on in that case. That is on them and they need to muster if they want DF. I don't understand this trophy for everyone / no consequences / equality of outcomes approach to any potential problem. Disparity is the rule, not the exception. If all 3 realms were balanced in their progress that would be the exception, the expectation is that there will be a first place, a second place, and a third place, and there's no reason to put in place safeguards aside from incentives to correct the imbalance.

Putting a realm at a significant gear disadvantage is a terrible idea. I am not saying the current feather system is necessarily causing this, but if you create too many lopsided advantages for owning keeps it can be devastating to the server.

Think of Uthgard where one realm owns all the relics and DF. There is a realm switch timer on Phoenix, a lot of players will just switch to the winning realm instead of trying to compete with them.

You build up too many stat and gear advantages for one realm and players leave.

It is fine that feather farming can mainly come from Raids or Darkness Falls, but there should be ways for players to attain them apart from that. It is not as simple as you try to make it.

Wed 3 Oct 2018 12:49 AM by Armsmancer

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Wed 3 Oct 2018 12:37 AM
Armsmancer wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Oct 2018 11:51 PM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Oct 2018 5:50 PM
Imagine if Alb can't secure darkness falls early on. Caer Sidi is a nightmare. Albion might fall so far behind on feathers and get left in the dust.

There needs to be other places to feather farm like the frontier zones.

This whole thing presents potential issues.

Feathers belong in DF, but there should be other RvR alternatives.

Your fallacy is that they shouldn't fall behind early on in that case. That is on them and they need to muster if they want DF. I don't understand this trophy for everyone / no consequences / equality of outcomes approach to any potential problem. Disparity is the rule, not the exception. If all 3 realms were balanced in their progress that would be the exception, the expectation is that there will be a first place, a second place, and a third place, and there's no reason to put in place safeguards aside from incentives to correct the imbalance.

Putting a realm at a significant gear disadvantage is a terrible idea. I am not saying the current feather system is necessarily causing this, but if you create too many lopsided advantages for owning keeps it can be devastating to the server.

Think of Uthgard where one realm owns all the relics and DF. There is a realm switch timer on Phoenix, a lot of players will just switch to the winning realm instead of trying to compete with them.

You build up too many stat and gear advantages for one realm and players leave.

It is fine that feather farming can mainly come from Raids or Darkness Falls, but there should be ways for players to attain them apart from that. It is not as simple as you try to make it.

Who is "putting" a realm at a disadvantage? Just because they don't put up kiddie bumpers so your ball doesn't go in the gutter in bowling doesn't mean they made you throw it in the gutter. Be real.

They also are not creating any lopsided advantages, same concept as above. They put 3 kids in a sandbox and the kids that excel at building a castle faster than others are simply better and are rewarded for doing it, the slowest kid there wasn't slow because the parent put all 3 kids there....you have a problem of causality in a lot of your posts you should reword them so they don't fall apart with the slightest analysis.

No points awarded for Uthgard mention, it really is the Hitler menions of political talk, "believe me or else Uthgard will happen here!" This doesn't move your argument any further, it's just an appeal and isn't any kind of evidence, you need to substantiate these claims or everyone will continue to eyeroll at your "x will happen!" claims because they are just claims that don't meet their burden of proof, like flat earthers etc. You are on par with them until you provide something better than how you feel/your gut/nostradomus predictions about how this place will be uthgard 3.0. Please up your standards and you will be more convincing in the future.

Wed 3 Oct 2018 12:54 AM by defiasbandit

Armsmancer wrote: ↑
Wed 3 Oct 2018 12:49 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Wed 3 Oct 2018 12:37 AM
Armsmancer wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Oct 2018 11:51 PM
Your fallacy is that they shouldn't fall behind early on in that case. That is on them and they need to muster if they want DF. I don't understand this trophy for everyone / no consequences / equality of outcomes approach to any potential problem. Disparity is the rule, not the exception. If all 3 realms were balanced in their progress that would be the exception, the expectation is that there will be a first place, a second place, and a third place, and there's no reason to put in place safeguards aside from incentives to correct the imbalance.

Putting a realm at a significant gear disadvantage is a terrible idea. I am not saying the current feather system is necessarily causing this, but if you create too many lopsided advantages for owning keeps it can be devastating to the server.

Think of Uthgard where one realm owns all the relics and DF. There is a realm switch timer on Phoenix, a lot of players will just switch to the winning realm instead of trying to compete with them.

You build up too many stat and gear advantages for one realm and players leave.

It is fine that feather farming can mainly come from Raids or Darkness Falls, but there should be ways for players to attain them apart from that. It is not as simple as you try to make it.

Who is "putting" a realm at a disadvantage? Just because they don't put up kiddie bumpers so your ball doesn't go in the gutter in bowling doesn't mean they made you throw it in the gutter. Be real.

They also are not creating any lopsided advantages, same concept as above. They put 3 kids in a sandbox and the kids that excel at building a castle faster than others are simply better and are rewarded for doing it, the slowest kid there wasn't slow because the parent put all 3 kids there....you have a problem of causality in a lot of your posts you should reword them so they don't fall apart with the slightest analysis.

No points awarded for Uthgard mention, it really is the Hitler menions of political talk, "believe me or else Uthgard will happen here!" This doesn't move your argument any further, it's just an appeal and isn't any kind of evidence, you need to substantiate these claims or everyone will continue to eyeroll at your "x will happen!" claims because they are just claims that don't meet their burden of proof, like flat earthers etc. You are on par with them until you provide something better than how you feel/your gut/nostradomus predictions about how this place will be uthgard 3.0. Please up your standards and you will be more convincing in the future.

We don't want gear/stats to overpower certain realms in DAOC. That hurts the game. The relic system can even cause this in some cases. If it becomes very difficult for one realm to feather farm, they will likely either quit or switch realms. They don't want to be at a severe gear disadvantage in RvR.

I know you think it is a perfect solution and pretend you were the first player to suggest it so you will relentlessly defend it.

You want to incentivize areas like Darkness Falls and Keeps, but you have to do it diligently. I think feather farming should be possible in other areas too. The idea should be to create RvR. It isn't about feather farming, but about creating scenarios whereRvR can happen. That obviously was not the case before with the afk Avalon City farming. I know you don't see the potential ramifications of such systems. Instead you write 3 paragraphs about some kids in a sandbox or something.