Allow MoS to be trained via RSP

So I'm wanting to run a SB without training stealth in a duo with skald because he won't need high stealth with mezzed targets. The thing is, I'd like to be able to pop stealthers but I wouldn't be able to do so without training MoS which he won't be able to do. I like the QoL/Balance aspect of gaining it when leveling stealth but it does come at a price too apparently.

Tue 21 Jul 2020 4:43 PM by gromet12

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jul 2020 4:31 PM
So I'm wanting to run a SB without training stealth in a duo with skald because he won't need high stealth with mezzed targets. The thing is, I'd like to be able to pop stealthers but I wouldn't be able to do so without training MoS which he won't be able to do. I like the QoL/Balance aspect of gaining it when leveling stealth but it does come at a price too apparently.

MOS doesn’t help stealth detection though so basically it is pointless in your play style

Tue 21 Jul 2020 4:54 PM by Noashakra

MoS is a speed boost here. The range to which you detect other stealthers is based on your stealth level and if you are archer or asn.

Tue 21 Jul 2020 5:37 PM by Bradekes

https://camelot.allakhazam.com/ability.html?cabil=25

Clearly MoS provided detection too

Tue 21 Jul 2020 5:44 PM by Kwall0311

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jul 2020 5:37 PM
https://camelot.allakhazam.com/ability.html?cabil=25

Clearly MoS provided detection too

If you go look at the unique server rules for phoenix, you will see that that isnt the case

Tue 21 Jul 2020 5:47 PM by Bradekes

I'm requesting that it should be trainable at it's original value/form. That is what I'm asking for. I'm not sure why I'm being told this in every post. Not trying to be rude as I appreciate the feedback.

It also shouldn't be stackable to the stealth trained version.

Tue 21 Jul 2020 6:02 PM by Kwall0311

What would be your idea of a fair amount of RA points to spend, to see someone who specs 500-600 of their points into stealth

Tue 21 Jul 2020 6:12 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Just add a 20 second active buff RA called Stealth Lore and have it give improved detection for every level purchased; give it the same cost scaling as all other actives and make it trainable by all classes.

Does not stack with Stealth Lore potions.

Tue 21 Jul 2020 6:15 PM by Bradekes

Kwall0311 wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jul 2020 6:02 PM
What would be your idea of a fair amount of RA points to spend, to see someone who specs 500-600 of their points into stealth

The normal amount of RA points. There's no need to adjust it one way or another. You're either gaining it through speccing stealth or you gain it through RA.

Tue 21 Jul 2020 6:17 PM by Bradekes

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jul 2020 6:12 PM
Just add a 20 second active buff RA called Stealth Lore and have it give improved detection for every level purchased; give it the same cost scaling as all other actives and make it trainable by all classes.

Does not stack with Stealth Lore potions.

This would be cool too actually. Would be even cooler if there was also a minor passive detection added to it.

Maybe not trainable by all classes. Definitely assassin, maybe archer but they could setup critshot with it might be unfair. I see the idea though because pots are available to all might make it more balanced to be an RA instead of free to everyone

Tue 21 Jul 2020 7:37 PM by Noashakra

So people would be able to pop all the solos when playing in small man with a stealther in the group... Great idea.

Tue 21 Jul 2020 7:55 PM by Bradekes

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jul 2020 7:37 PM
So people would be able to pop all the solos when playing in small man with a stealther in the group... Great idea.

This is already an option if someone just trains stealth.. how many groups running stealthless assassin classes? Lol..

It's something I'm interested on trying and it made me wonder why they removed the RA when it's still a valid ability to train in

Tue 21 Jul 2020 8:35 PM by WildWilbur

Lol, just lol!

Tue 21 Jul 2020 9:22 PM by Noashakra

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jul 2020 7:55 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jul 2020 7:37 PM
So people would be able to pop all the solos when playing in small man with a stealther in the group... Great idea.

This is already an option if someone just trains stealth.. how many groups running stealthless assassin classes? Lol..

It's something I'm interested on trying and it made me wonder why they removed the RA when it's still a valid ability to train in

No because MoS doesn't work like on live, your detection radius is 250 if you have 50 stealth and the target has also 50, and then your range is also reduced by your speed. So no it's not already like this. Your level in MoS just influence your speed when in stealth.

Tue 21 Jul 2020 9:55 PM by Bradekes

WildWilbur wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jul 2020 8:35 PM
Lol, just lol!

What kind of post is this? What's wrong with having an RA that has existed in the game for a long time returned? There's already stealth lore pots anyone can use I want to play my assassin differently I don't see a problem or a reason to troll here.

Tue 21 Jul 2020 9:57 PM by Bradekes

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jul 2020 9:22 PM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jul 2020 7:55 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jul 2020 7:37 PM
So people would be able to pop all the solos when playing in small man with a stealther in the group... Great idea.

This is already an option if someone just trains stealth.. how many groups running stealthless assassin classes? Lol..

It's something I'm interested on trying and it made me wonder why they removed the RA when it's still a valid ability to train in

No because MoS doesn't work like on live, your detection radius is 250 if you have 50 stealth and the target has also 50, and then your range is also reduced by your speed. So no it's not already like this. Your level in MoS just influence your speed when in stealth.

That's the thing.. they can adjust it to act just like the same tier MoS for detection purposes only and speed while stealthed. I don't understand your hangup with the idea

Tue 21 Jul 2020 10:05 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jul 2020 9:57 PM
I don't understand your hangup with the idea

Sure you do. They don't want to die, they want to be able to hide and pick their fights and then Vanish when they are losing.

Wed 22 Jul 2020 8:19 AM by Noashakra

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jul 2020 9:57 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jul 2020 9:22 PM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jul 2020 7:55 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jul 2020 7:37 PM
So people would be able to pop all the solos when playing in small man with a stealther in the group... Great idea.

This is already an option if someone just trains stealth.. how many groups running stealthless assassin classes? Lol..

It's something I'm interested on trying and it made me wonder why they removed the RA when it's still a valid ability to train in

No because MoS doesn't work like on live, your detection radius is 250 if you have 50 stealth and the target has also 50, and then your range is also reduced by your speed. So no it's not already like this. Your level in MoS just influence your speed when in stealth.

That's the thing.. they can adjust it to act just like the same tier MoS for detection purposes only and speed while stealthed. I don't understand your hangup with the idea

What you write makes no sense. MoS on this server doesn't give you detection bonuses. The 250unit detection is fixed value for everyone with the same level of stealth (50 composite stealth vs another toon with 50). Then if you move with speed, you have a decreased detection range. Why do you continue to say "it's already the case" when it's not...
You want free rps with your skald duo rolling on the stealthers, I got it.

@excretus there are already SL pots on this server, and I was never against them. So buy pots to counter asn vanishing, I always have 2 on me. And of course I want to pick my fights, it's what assassins and archers are designed for... Otherwise I would be playing something else.

Wed 22 Jul 2020 10:46 AM by inoeth

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Tue 21 Jul 2020 4:31 PM
So I'm wanting to run a SB without training stealth in a duo with skald because he won't need high stealth with mezzed targets. The thing is, I'd like to be able to pop stealthers but I wouldn't be able to do so without training MoS which he won't be able to do. I like the QoL/Balance aspect of gaining it when leveling stealth but it does come at a price too apparently.

thats really lame i dont support
hell plz even reduce stealth detection when running aster than sprint!

Wed 22 Jul 2020 11:51 AM by Bradekes

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Jul 2020 8:19 AM
What you write makes no sense. MoS on this server doesn't give you detection bonuses. The 250unit detection is fixed value for everyone with the same level of stealth (50 composite stealth vs another toon with 50). Then if you move with speed, you have a decreased detection range. Why do you continue to say "it's already the case" when it's not...
You want free rps with your skald duo rolling on the stealthers, I got it.

You realise again that it does makes sense that MoS already works like that on this server if you have the same MoS value as the enemy(not based on stealth level but MoS gained by speccing stealth) or the RA adjusted to do so things aren't fixed in place dude.

If all I cared about was free rps I'd just spec stealth and do the same thing. There's no difference I'd just lose out on some critical strike/weapon training.

MoS used to be available as an RA and it makes sense to be available here. Yes I do want to be able to kill stealthers. My lowbies get killed by them all the time. So many albs camping lvl 35-44 leveling spots with minstrels and infil/scout.

These people are the bottom of the barrel feeders and yes I would like to be able to eliminate them. I want to be a respectable SB and fight among the visibles which I would be giving up my own survivability.

Wed 22 Jul 2020 2:38 PM by Noashakra

NO, there are no MoS detection on this server. MoS is only a speed boost when stealthed. the detection distance value is FIXED to 250 units (archers and asn, ministrel is 125), if you have the same level in stealth...
It doesn't work like live, where with each level in MoS, it increase your detection range.

You have no idea about what you speak about.

Wed 22 Jul 2020 2:48 PM by Bradekes

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Jul 2020 2:38 PM
NO, there are no MoS detection on this server. MoS is only a speed boost when stealthed. the detection distance value is FIXED to 250 units, if you have the same level in stealth...
It doesn't work like live, where with each level in MoS, it increase your detection range.

You have no idea about what you speak about.

You obviously don't understand a suggestion thread

Wed 22 Jul 2020 2:50 PM by Noashakra

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Jul 2020 2:48 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Jul 2020 2:38 PM
NO, there are no MoS detection on this server. MoS is only a speed boost when stealthed. the detection distance value is FIXED to 250 units, if you have the same level in stealth...
It doesn't work like live, where with each level in MoS, it increase your detection range.

You have no idea about what you speak about.

You obviously don't understand a suggestion thread

Or maybe your english is broken and you don't express yourself in a clear way? (I am not trying to insult your english level, but maybe what you write doesn't relfect exactly what you mean).

You realise again that it does makes sense that MoS already works like that on this server

if you spec stealth, you will not see the stealthers with your skald except if you pass on them. The skald speed reduce your detection range. 250 is already small, unlike MoS on live servers that could give you 600+ range...
So no it's not already working like this on this server.
If you have MoS 5 with 30 stealth +20 (rr10+11 tempate) vs MoS 7 with 40 stealth +11 (rr1+11 template) you will see each other at the same range.
Going above 50 in stealth is useless, it doesn't improve your detection range.

Wed 22 Jul 2020 3:53 PM by Bradekes

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Jul 2020 2:50 PM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Jul 2020 2:48 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Jul 2020 2:38 PM
NO, there are no MoS detection on this server. MoS is only a speed boost when stealthed. the detection distance value is FIXED to 250 units, if you have the same level in stealth...
It doesn't work like live, where with each level in MoS, it increase your detection range.

You have no idea about what you speak about.

You obviously don't understand a suggestion thread

Or maybe your english is broken and you don't express yourself in a clear way? (I am not trying to insult your english level, but maybe what you write doesn't relfect exactly what you mean).

You realise again that it does makes sense that MoS already works like that on this server

if you spec stealth, you will not see the stealthers with your skald except if you pass on them. The skald speed reduce your detection range. 250 is already small, unlike MoS on live servers that could give you 600+ range...
So no it's not already working like this on this server.
If you have MoS 5 with 30 stealth +20 (rr10+11 tempate) vs MoS 7 with 40 stealth +11 (rr1+11 template) you will see each other at the same range.
Going above 50 in stealth is useless, it doesn't improve your detection range.

I think it's more of the fact that you're making assumptions you shouldn't make.

First assumption, I don't know that MoS/stealth is custom on this server. That assumption is wrong, I do know they don't work like on live.

Second assumption, I am making this character to run with Skald expecting to see stealthers with purple Skald speed. Again, that assumption is wrong. I do not expect to see stealthers at Skald speed, and also the main reason I want this duo is NOT to track down stealthers but I am attempting to make a low/no stealth build for an Assassin that works in a group setting.

Third assumption, I don't know how stealth works in general. Also false! My request would be to revive the RA MoS and give it new properties to give detection ONLY not increasing my own stealthing abilities but my ability to see other stealthers and my speed while stealthing only.

So please stop trying to correct me as I am suggesting that MoS should return and not requesting how the stealth/Built-in MoS works. Thanks

Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:07 PM by Noashakra

Yeah in that case you should take care about what your write and how, because it's not what you wrote earlier...
I correct you because of what your wrote and how your wrote it.

You realise again that it does makes sense that MoS already works like that on this server if you have the same MoS value as the enemy(not based on stealth level but MoS gained by speccing stealth)

This is wrong so... If you don't want me to correct you, don't say things that aren't true? Or write them in the correct way if it's not what you mean.

Anyway MoS like live would only mean one thing, more stealth zerg because in solo you will have no way to escape the zergers. and archers would become OP vs asn. So no.

Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:16 PM by Astaa

Haha, no.

Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:23 PM by Noashakra

By the way here is the how stealth detection works (the only thing that changed since then is the range that is 250 for archers and Asn)
https://forum.playphoenix.online/server/announcements/607-stealther-changes

Mastery of Stealth

Mastery of Stealth is no longer a Realm Ability, instead you get it for free based on your stealth spec:
10 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 1 +10% movement speed
15 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 2 +13% movement speed
20 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 3 +16% movement speed
25 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 4 +19% movement speed
30 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 5 +22% movement speed
35 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 6 +25% movement speed
40 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 7 +28% movement speed
45 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 8 +31% movement speed
50 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 9 +34% movement speed

Class changes:

Minstrel:
Gains Mastery of Stealth based on stealth spec

Assassins - Infiltrator, Nightshade, Shadowblade:
Gains Matery of Stealth based on stealth spec
See Hidden has been removed

Archer - Hunter, Ranger, Scout:
Gains Matery of Stealth based on stealth spec
Camouflage has been removed

>>>>>Assuming 50 comb spec stealth for everyone:<<<< (so NO MoS level, you can have 29+21=50 in steath and you would have MoS 4 or 37+13 and MoS 6)
Assassins see other assassins at a range of 125.
Assassins see archers at a range of 250.
Assassins see minstrels at a range of 250.
Archers see assassins at a range of 125.
Archers see other archers at a range of 125.
Archers see minstrels at a range of 125.
Minstrels see assassins at a range of 125.
Minstrels see archers at a range of 125.
Minstrels see other minstrels at a range of 125.

Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:29 PM by Bradekes

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:23 PM
By the way here is the proof (the only thing that changed since then is the range that is 250 for archers and Asn)
https://forum.playphoenix.online/server/announcements/607-stealther-changes

Mastery of Stealth

Mastery of Stealth is no longer a Realm Ability, instead you get it for free based on your stealth spec:
10 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 1 +10% movement speed
15 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 2 +13% movement speed
20 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 3 +16% movement speed
25 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 4 +19% movement speed
30 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 5 +22% movement speed
35 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 6 +25% movement speed
40 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 7 +28% movement speed
45 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 8 +31% movement speed
50 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 9 +34% movement speed

Class changes:

Minstrel:
Gains Mastery of Stealth based on stealth spec

Assassins - Infiltrator, Nightshade, Shadowblade:
Gains Matery of Stealth based on stealth spec
See Hidden has been removed

Archer - Hunter, Ranger, Scout:
Gains Matery of Stealth based on stealth spec
Camouflage has been removed

>>>>>Assuming 50 comb spec stealth for everyone:<<<< (so NO MoS level, you can have 29+21=50 in steath and you would have MoS 4 or 37+13 and MoS 6)
Assassins see other assassins at a range of 125.
Assassins see archers at a range of 250.
Assassins see minstrels at a range of 250.
Archers see assassins at a range of 125.
Archers see other archers at a range of 125.
Archers see minstrels at a range of 125.
Minstrels see assassins at a range of 125.
Minstrels see archers at a range of 125.
Minstrels see other minstrels at a range of 125.

So where does it say in there that MoS no longer give detection range? I think you were wrong and just proved it so. At 50comp stealth you have MoS 9 giving you 34% stealth speed and an alloted amount of detection which isn't given but is described as being 250 units at equal MoS(50stealth) level. As you assumed how the info was read vs what is logical

Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:30 PM by Noashakra

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:29 PM
So where does it say in there that MoS no longer give detection range? I think you were wrong and just proved it so. At 50comp stealth you have MoS 9 giving you 34% stealth speed and an alloted amount of detection which isn't given but is described as being 250 units at equal MoS(50stealth) level.

>>>>>>>>>>>>Assuming 50 comb spec stealth for everyone:<<<<<<<<<<<<<
it's in bold
you can have 50 comb spec with stealth MoS 4 5 or 6... and the detection ranger would still be 250.
sorry man you are plain wrong since the start.

Otherwise nobody would lower stealth if MoS was an advantage in detection.

Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:38 PM by Bradekes

Done arguing with you, as your points aren't on topic you're just spouting off game mechanics not discussing bringing back MoS.

Just return MoS and give it custom rules.

The Realm Ability MoS 9 would be equivalent to having 50 stealth trained MoS move speed as well as 50 stealth trained detection radius. Meaning 34% increased stealth move speed and 250unit detection for an assassin trained in MoS. However, it would not decrease your enemies detection radius vs seeing you.

Or make it stack with stealth level trained for detection/move speed only.

Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:41 PM by Saroi

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:23 PM
By the way here is the how stealth detection works (the only thing that changed since then is the range that is 250 for archers and Asn)
https://forum.playphoenix.online/server/announcements/607-stealther-changes

Mastery of Stealth

Mastery of Stealth is no longer a Realm Ability, instead you get it for free based on your stealth spec:
10 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 1 +10% movement speed
15 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 2 +13% movement speed
20 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 3 +16% movement speed
25 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 4 +19% movement speed
30 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 5 +22% movement speed
35 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 6 +25% movement speed
40 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 7 +28% movement speed
45 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 8 +31% movement speed
50 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 9 +34% movement speed

Class changes:

Minstrel:
Gains Mastery of Stealth based on stealth spec

Assassins - Infiltrator, Nightshade, Shadowblade:
Gains Matery of Stealth based on stealth spec
See Hidden has been removed

Archer - Hunter, Ranger, Scout:
Gains Matery of Stealth based on stealth spec
Camouflage has been removed

>>>>>Assuming 50 comb spec stealth for everyone:<<<< (so NO MoS level, you can have 29+21=50 in steath and you would have MoS 4 or 37+13 and MoS 6)
Assassins see other assassins at a range of 125.
Assassins see archers at a range of 250.
Assassins see minstrels at a range of 250.
Archers see assassins at a range of 125.
Archers see other archers at a range of 125.
Archers see minstrels at a range of 125.
Minstrels see assassins at a range of 125.
Minstrels see archers at a range of 125.
Minstrels see other minstrels at a range of 125.

That is not correct though. That was written July 2018. On 15 October Stealth ranges have been changed. (Not the Archer buff to have same as Sins)

Grüne also wrote back in a scout thread that the stealth ranges are not 125 and 250 anymore since the 15 October 2018.

Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:46 PM by Noashakra

You argument was bring back mos because mos already works like this on this server...
It made no sense because it was plain wrong. On this server, have 30+20 35+15 in stealth or 50+X in train stealth is the same for the detection range.

Anyway your idea is just bad. I tried to educate you but you didn't care. There are 0 chances your idea will be taken seriously.

Next!

Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:46 PM by Noashakra

Saroi wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:41 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:23 PM
By the way here is the how stealth detection works (the only thing that changed since then is the range that is 250 for archers and Asn)
https://forum.playphoenix.online/server/announcements/607-stealther-changes

Mastery of Stealth

Mastery of Stealth is no longer a Realm Ability, instead you get it for free based on your stealth spec:
10 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 1 +10% movement speed
15 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 2 +13% movement speed
20 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 3 +16% movement speed
25 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 4 +19% movement speed
30 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 5 +22% movement speed
35 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 6 +25% movement speed
40 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 7 +28% movement speed
45 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 8 +31% movement speed
50 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 9 +34% movement speed

Class changes:

Minstrel:
Gains Mastery of Stealth based on stealth spec

Assassins - Infiltrator, Nightshade, Shadowblade:
Gains Matery of Stealth based on stealth spec
See Hidden has been removed

Archer - Hunter, Ranger, Scout:
Gains Matery of Stealth based on stealth spec
Camouflage has been removed

>>>>>Assuming 50 comb spec stealth for everyone:<<<< (so NO MoS level, you can have 29+21=50 in steath and you would have MoS 4 or 37+13 and MoS 6)
Assassins see other assassins at a range of 125.
Assassins see archers at a range of 250.
Assassins see minstrels at a range of 250.
Archers see assassins at a range of 125.
Archers see other archers at a range of 125.
Archers see minstrels at a range of 125.
Minstrels see assassins at a range of 125.
Minstrels see archers at a range of 125.
Minstrels see other minstrels at a range of 125.

That is not correct though. That was written July 2018. On 15 October Stealth ranges have been changed. (Not the Archer buff to have same as Sins)

Grüne also wrote back in a scout thread that the stealth ranges are not 125 and 250 anymore since the 15 October 2018.

well did you read that ?

(the only thing that changed since then is the range that is 250 for archers and Asn)

Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:48 PM by Saroi

MoS as a RA was a bad idea back then on live and would be here too. Your stealth level should always just be determined from your stealth spec and nothing else.
On live they never knew what to do with it because there were years it was a RA and then we had years were it was in your stealth spec.

If you run with visibles you don't need CS so you can use those points to get Comp stealth and your problems are solved and you can detect other stealthers. People like Barrywipe have been doing that.

Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:51 PM by Bradekes

Saroi wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:48 PM
MoS as a RA was a bad idea back then on live and would be here too. Your stealth level should always just be determined from your stealth spec and nothing else.
On live they never knew what to do with it because there were years it was a RA and then we had years were it was in your stealth spec.

If you run with visibles you don't need CS so you can use those points to get Comp stealth and your problems are solved and you can detect other stealthers. People like Barrywipe have been doing that.

The idea would be to use my stealth openers on mezzed targets. Or would that not be feasible?

Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:54 PM by Saroi

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:46 PM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:41 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:23 PM
By the way here is the how stealth detection works (the only thing that changed since then is the range that is 250 for archers and Asn)
https://forum.playphoenix.online/server/announcements/607-stealther-changes

Mastery of Stealth

Mastery of Stealth is no longer a Realm Ability, instead you get it for free based on your stealth spec:
10 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 1 +10% movement speed
15 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 2 +13% movement speed
20 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 3 +16% movement speed
25 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 4 +19% movement speed
30 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 5 +22% movement speed
35 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 6 +25% movement speed
40 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 7 +28% movement speed
45 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 8 +31% movement speed
50 Stealth Spec: Mastery of Stealth 9 +34% movement speed

Class changes:

Minstrel:
Gains Mastery of Stealth based on stealth spec

Assassins - Infiltrator, Nightshade, Shadowblade:
Gains Matery of Stealth based on stealth spec
See Hidden has been removed

Archer - Hunter, Ranger, Scout:
Gains Matery of Stealth based on stealth spec
Camouflage has been removed

>>>>>Assuming 50 comb spec stealth for everyone:<<<< (so NO MoS level, you can have 29+21=50 in steath and you would have MoS 4 or 37+13 and MoS 6)
Assassins see other assassins at a range of 125.
Assassins see archers at a range of 250.
Assassins see minstrels at a range of 250.
Archers see assassins at a range of 125.
Archers see other archers at a range of 125.
Archers see minstrels at a range of 125.
Minstrels see assassins at a range of 125.
Minstrels see archers at a range of 125.
Minstrels see other minstrels at a range of 125.

That is not correct though. That was written July 2018. On 15 October Stealth ranges have been changed. (Not the Archer buff to have same as Sins)

Grüne also wrote back in a scout thread that the stealth ranges are not 125 and 250 anymore since the 15 October 2018.

well did you read that ?
(the only thing that changed since then is the range that is 250 for archers and Asn)

Yes I read it and again it is false because there were more changes not just archers and Sin. Archers and Sin both got buffs to see minstrel better, so they are higher than what you quoted. Archer vs. Archer has been buffed, so they are also higher then you quoted.

Here patch from October 15

-- minstrels no longer have any bonus stealth detection
-- archers detect minstrels from further away
-- archers detect assassins from slightly further away
-- archers detect archers from slightly further away
-- assassins detect minstrels from further away
-- detector stealth status no longer influences detection range

And here is the quote from Grün stating that both 125 and 250 are not in anymore:

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 27 Jun 2019 8:09 PM
it hasn't been 125 or 250 since October 15th.

Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:55 PM by Saroi

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:51 PM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:48 PM
MoS as a RA was a bad idea back then on live and would be here too. Your stealth level should always just be determined from your stealth spec and nothing else.
On live they never knew what to do with it because there were years it was a RA and then we had years were it was in your stealth spec.

If you run with visibles you don't need CS so you can use those points to get Comp stealth and your problems are solved and you can detect other stealthers. People like Barrywipe have been doing that.

The idea would be to use my stealth openers on mezzed targets. Or would that not be feasible?

Not really, if you don't spec into stealth then the enemies would be way to near to you for you to be able to stealth. Your stealth level also decides how near you can stealth at an enemy too.

Wed 22 Jul 2020 5:03 PM by Noashakra

Ok if that's correct thanks for the correction on the range. It doesn't change the point about the misconception of how MoS works though.

Wed 22 Jul 2020 5:10 PM by Saroi

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Jul 2020 5:03 PM
Ok if that's correct thanks for the correction on the range. It doesn't invalidate the misconception about MoS though.

I know. I don't like MoS as a RA too and think it is not a good idea. I never liked the times on live when MoS was a RA. I believe Grün wrote somewhere too about why MoS was brought here as a stealth spec. Most important reason was to make Sins the best Stealth detector but again because of all the archer complains the stealth got changed.

And noone really knows about how exactly the ranges are because of all the changes. Just got the answer from Grün that it isn't supposed to be 125/250 anymore.

Wed 22 Jul 2020 5:16 PM by Noashakra

From experience playing a melee ranger, I would say it's the same range. No idea about the value if it's not 250.

Wed 22 Jul 2020 5:51 PM by Bradekes

Saroi wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Jul 2020 4:55 PM
Not really, if you don't spec into stealth then the enemies would be way to near to you for you to be able to stealth. Your stealth level also decides how near you can stealth at an enemy too.

I was under the impression that failure message only came up for mobs... I guess I could use that message as a indication that stealthers are nearby and pop detection potion then might work out better!

Wed 22 Jul 2020 6:45 PM by The Skies Asunder

Please don't make MoS a realm skill. It is a massive waste of realm points for all stealth classes when they are fighting anything apart from other stealth classes, and negates the biggest mechanic of these classes by allowing higher RR people to just uncover you from range.

Wed 22 Jul 2020 7:22 PM by Noashakra

The Skies Asunder wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Jul 2020 6:45 PM
Please don't make MoS a realm skill. It is a massive waste of realm points for all stealth classes when they are fighting anything apart from other stealth classes, and negates the biggest mechanic of these classes by allowing higher RR people to just uncover you from range.

it was not fun for assassins to be crit shot from above the bridge... But good times to be a ranger. Even though I had a ranger then and have a ranger now, I am against it.

Thu 23 Jul 2020 6:13 AM by inoeth

plz merge det into off hand skill its a massive waste of skill points when fighting solos or ppl with no CC.

Thu 23 Jul 2020 7:09 AM by

gruenesschaf

Just to have the ranges somewhere, level 50 chars against stealther with 50 comp stealth, more than 50 comp stealth has no effect against players:

The base detection range is 150
Assassins have +150 against assassins, +250 against archer, +350 against minstrels
Archer have +250 against assassins, archer, minstrels

On top of that comes the friendly stealther nearby increase and a reduction if above sprint speed.

Thu 23 Jul 2020 8:15 AM by DJ2000

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 23 Jul 2020 7:09 AM
The base detection range is 150
Assassins have +150 against assassins, +250 against archer, +350 against minstrels
Archer have +250 against assassins, archer, minstrels

So as an Archer i can see the enemy Assassin sooner than as an Assassin myself?
So the Archer is the better Stealther then, ok. Seems odd, w/e.

EDIT:
Ok, i get it now. For whatever reason i thought its the other way around.

Assassin vs Assassin
(Base) 150 + (vs Assassins) 150 = 300 Detection Range
Assassin vs Archer
(Base) 150 + (vs Archer) 250 = 400 Detection Range
Assassin vs Minstrel
(Base) 150 + (vs Minstrel) 350 = 500 Detection Range

Archer vs Assassins/Archer/Minstrel
(Base) 150 + (vs Assassins/Archer/Minstrel) 250 = 400 Detection Range