Feather Weapons Imbalanced? - Phoenix Freeshard

I am finding that feather weapons are possibly too strong for some classes. The slow weapons for melee appear to be raid weapons. These weapons will be acquired in just a few days by feather farming guilds.

Having stealthers and other melee with this kind of advantage a few weeks into launch seems like a bad idea. The feather weapons benefit melee far more than other classes. Casters do not really even use feather weapons for temps.

Imagine 2 days after launch. Stealthers with raid weapons running around emain. Luri Nightshade with full feather gear and reskins hiding on Emain road. It seems bogus. It was not like that during SI.

Mon 24 Sep 2018 5:54 PM by Kampfar

You still need to kill the Boss, so ...

Mon 24 Sep 2018 10:35 PM by Niix

I dunno what you’re talking about, caster groups are better than melee groups (all other things equal).

Back in SI you would run 5 dragon raids and see one item you want and then have to roll against 100 people... feathers are the best QoL thing they’ve added because I can actually achieve getting a weapon I always wanted.

Mon 24 Sep 2018 10:37 PM by Magesty

The feather items should be items that existed in SI. I don’t think there is going to be that much of a difference between a stealther that has somehow gotten a perfect template with feather items a few weeks in and one that has a very good template using all PC’d gear/procs. What is so concerning about like .2 swing speed and some tertiary statistics/resists that it warrants more than a moment of thought? Even using 99% gear, RoG jewelry and neck quest jewel/necklace you can make a very solid template that can compete well enough to beat characters with “perfect” templates.

I’m not sure what you’re getting at with the caster vs melee comparison. Yes, casters do not get as much benefit out of melee weapons. They are also way easier to template and likely don’t even really need feather items to get a perfect build. Are you suggesting that having slightly slower raid weapons available is going to create an imbalance between melees and casters that will ruin gameplay? Or are you a caster that doesn’t want to die to assassins? If it’s the latter I have bad news for you— it’s going to happen fairly often whether they have feather weapons or not, and most likely there will be more than one of them.

Item skins are currently wack as fuck though, I’ll give you that.

Mon 24 Sep 2018 11:11 PM by poisonclover

I think what he's trying to say is.

A strealther for example using a Feather bought weapon .. Slower AS = harder PA... Proc is more then likely a DoT that stacks with lifebane.. I believe what he's saying that these weapons running so rampant out in rvr so early and in such quantity is going to change things drastically. Not just on a stealthier. where is back then there was but a few with these weapons because they didn't always drop.

Mon 24 Sep 2018 11:43 PM by florin

Menwyn - you can’t just run solo into emain as an untemplated wizard and complain about being 1 shot by a rr7 ns.

Tue 25 Sep 2018 12:38 AM by Tree

Gosh that reminds me of the "good old days". During 1.65 I was the highest RR nightshade on server Avalon, lead Galadoria raids regularly and BADLY wanted to get the Easmarach Stinger for my offhand. Somehow through extreme bad luck it never dropped when I lead and I never rolled it on any of the other raids I participated. And nobody wanted to sell one, even though I was among the richest people on the server.
And then there was this total noob elf nightshade I ran into one day, hadnt even heard of the character up until then, and this fu**er seriously was wearing 3 (yep three) of them, even used one for applying poison. Could have killed him then and there.
The whole thing still haunts me to this day. Thank god this can never happen on Phoenix.

Tue 25 Sep 2018 6:36 AM by defiasbandit

poisonclover wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Sep 2018 11:11 PM
I think what he's trying to say is.

A strealther for example using a Feather bought weapon .. Slower AS = harder PA... Proc is more then likely a DoT that stacks with lifebane.. I believe what he's saying that these weapons running so rampant out in rvr so early and in such quantity is going to change things drastically. Not just on a stealthier. where is back then there was but a few with these weapons because they didn't always drop.

This is exactly what I am talking about. It gives a huge advantage to stealthers that did not exist on live. I'm not trying to dumpster stealthers. I just think giving them that much power right away isn't right. Those raid daggers were really rare. It just isn't representative of how RvR was.

Tue 25 Sep 2018 4:35 PM by poisonclover

Tree wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Sep 2018 12:38 AM
Gosh that reminds me of the "good old days". During 1.65 I was the highest RR nightshade on server Avalon, lead Galadoria raids regularly and BADLY wanted to get the Easmarach Stinger for my offhand. Somehow through extreme bad luck it never dropped when I lead and I never rolled it on any of the other raids I participated. And nobody wanted to sell one, even though I was among the richest people on the server.
And then there was this total noob elf nightshade I ran into one day, hadnt even heard of the character up until then, and this fu**er seriously was wearing 3 (yep three) of them, even used one for applying poison. Could have killed him then and there.
The whole thing still haunts me to this day. Thank god this can never happen on Phoenix.

Totally can relate, had the same issue on my server on the SB. But lets be honest here, if all you have to do is kill it once for account kill credit and can purchase it. you will never run or be apart of the raid again therefore, At some point everyone and their mom will have account credit for these raids, and any new character or new players to the server will never ever get a chance at them. Thus becoming the same person you where back on Avalon. Which in turn leads to people getting destroyed discouraged and flat out just leave the server or stop playing all together. Thus killing the server population. There has to be a better way. I don't believe Feathers are it with the current system.

In my opinion, there needs to be raid drop only loot. Some things should not be allowed to be purchased at all.

Tue 25 Sep 2018 4:49 PM by Kaziera

I guess you dont realize the amount of feathers you gain from those raids. 2 for evry purple mob and 250+ per boss afaik.

Tue 25 Sep 2018 5:19 PM by Mura

poisonclover wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Sep 2018 4:35 PM
At some point everyone and their mom will have account credit for these raids, and any new character or new players to the server will never ever get a chance at them.

This is an incredibly negative outlook, and while technically possible, please realize that the vast majority of people aren't this selfish.

People will always be willing to run raids for drops, rogs, and feathers. I highly doubt that people would refuse to do TG ever again just because they got credit once.

This is an MMO after all, if you aren't willing to help out your friends and allies just because you already got credit once, go play a single player game.

Tue 25 Sep 2018 7:09 PM by Tree

Well maybe its just the amount of feathers you get for various activities, that needs to be fixed. Honestly havent checked it out yet.

Tue 25 Sep 2018 9:05 PM by poisonclover

Mura wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Sep 2018 5:19 PM
poisonclover wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Sep 2018 4:35 PM
At some point everyone and their mom will have account credit for these raids, and any new character or new players to the server will never ever get a chance at them.

This is an incredibly negative outlook, and while technically possible, please realize that the vast majority of people aren't this selfish.

People will always be willing to run raids for drops, rogs, and feathers. I highly doubt that people would refuse to do TG ever again just because they got credit once.

This is an MMO after all, if you aren't willing to help out your friends and allies just because you already got credit once, go play a single player game.

have yet to see one formed, outside of a click or guild.. wouldn't say it if I didn't know it to be fact. even joined a guild for alittle while and was thinking maybe alliances where running them.. nope.

Just stating a reason as to why this should be looked at is all. not trying to be negative.

Albion doesn't run them.. Hib and mid run tons.. Ive seen multiple in /lfg chats for raids.. never in alb. js

Wed 26 Sep 2018 12:06 AM by Cider

So this is just a problem for alb? And to correct it you basically want to propose a nerf to the other realms because they put in the effort to get open raids going and albs (according to you,) dont? Sorry but that appears to be pretty selfish.

If your own realm is not running open raids to join, here is a novel idea, why not run them yourself? If the situation is as dire as you say, then many will jump at the opportunity and are likely to be patient while you find your feet running it.

Wed 26 Sep 2018 5:24 AM by Falken

We all have the same stat cap, who cares what items are what? Between ROG jewelry and player crafteds you can make a solid temp in 99s, who cares whether PvE weapons are "OP" stat caps are the same. If people want to spend 100 hours farming to have the same stats as somebody else who spent 4 hours (just enough feathers for procs I equate this to one TG raid for mid) then so be it!

Wed 26 Sep 2018 6:11 AM by Armsmancer

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Sep 2018 5:31 PM
Imagine 2 days after launch.

2 days after launch there will be not be i40 so not sure what world you are living in but there will not be day 2 tempted assassins grow a brain

who would they be fighting anyway day 2 there would be everyone still xp'ing in home lands really please again grow a brain at this point this is so dumb it hurts me to consider what you are saying

Wed 26 Sep 2018 4:23 PM by Exploder

The difference between a templated character with PC gear and Sidi isn't as huge as you guys are making it out to be. The extra .3 spd is marginal - even on perf. In the time frame that you've given (2 days), there is no possible way a stealther (who will likely level a necro, animist, etc. first) will be 50 and templated using all epic dungeon gear. Even in a 1 month setting, as long as you are templated to some degree then there isn't a real need for concern.

Armsmancer wrote: 2 days after launch there will be not be i40 so not sure what world you are living in but there will not be day 2 tempted assassins grow a brain

who would they be fighting anyway day 2 there would be everyone still xp'ing in home lands really please again grow a brain at this point this is so dumb it hurts me to consider what you are saying

I agree, but there's no need to be a douche about it.

Wed 26 Sep 2018 6:49 PM by rubaduck

Just because Phoenix include SI, and patch 1.65 doesn't mean they are recreating Shrouded Isle at 1.65.

SI had a lot of flaws, and while I don't mind grinds, the grind for templates were always the worst kind in this game. Most people, and I believe you as well, just want to enter RvR as soon as possible.

To put it delicately. What is stopping you from doing exactly the same scenario as you are portraying when the server is dropping? The feather system allows anyone with the means and time to do it. If you don't have time to play as much, why should the rest of the server wait for you? You don't need to win a roll, you just need to complete the encounter, farm the feathers and get the very same weapons.

Wed 26 Sep 2018 9:04 PM by relvinian

florin wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Sep 2018 11:43 PM
Menwyn - you can’t just run solo into emain as an untemplated wizard and complain about being 1 shot by a rr7 ns.

This quote has ZERO to do with the point of the original post.

Are they too powerful or not?

Thu 27 Sep 2018 1:38 AM by Armsmancer

Exploder wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Sep 2018 4:23 PM
The difference between a templated character with PC gear and Sidi isn't as huge as you guys are making it out to be. The extra .3 spd is marginal - even on perf. In the time frame that you've given (2 days), there is no possible way a stealther (who will likely level a necro, animist, etc. first) will be 50 and templated using all epic dungeon gear. Even in a 1 month setting, as long as you are templated to some degree then there isn't a real need for concern.

Armsmancer wrote: 2 days after launch there will be not be i40 so not sure what world you are living in but there will not be day 2 tempted assassins grow a brain

who would they be fighting anyway day 2 there would be everyone still xp'ing in home lands really please again grow a brain at this point this is so dumb it hurts me to consider what you are saying

I agree, but there's no need to be a douche about it.

If you are on alb and know who he is in game and his history you'd be thanking me, but if you're ignorant of the dynamic here you'd say something like this.

Thu 27 Sep 2018 3:05 AM by florin

relvinian wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Sep 2018 9:04 PM
florin wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Sep 2018 11:43 PM
Menwyn - you can’t just run solo into emain as an untemplated wizard and complain about being 1 shot by a rr7 ns.

This quote has ZERO to do with the point of the original post.

Are they too powerful or not?

No they are not

Thu 27 Sep 2018 4:09 AM by defiasbandit

Luri Nightshades hitting for 1k+ PA easily on casters. 1 shots happen all the time. Getting hit for 1300 damage in 1 hit by a ns. It's nonsense. Just wait a few weeks after launch when they are camping roads in emain with their raid weapons etc... That is not how it was in 1.65.

I am sure a lot of the ones disagreeing with this post are milegate stealthers looking to 1 shot fresh temped casters.

Thu 27 Sep 2018 5:12 AM by Kaziera

Thats a problem of a unfinished melee system. Ever realized that you hit the same target always for the same value? Certain things in the melee calculation are off. Dunno where or what. But to be clear, you guys are talking about not yet hatched chickens.

Thu 27 Sep 2018 12:36 PM by Nehm

In this case the only really existing problem is that some (3) epic dungeon weapons with very slow speed are currently missing class restrictions (=usable by all classes), when they infact should have class restrictions. There are a handful of extra slow 1 hand weapons in the game but they all have class restrictions for a good reason. For example Infiltrators should not be able to use Bane (4.3spd) and Nightshades should not be able to use Broodmother Fang (4.3spd) or Uaimh's Rending Claw (4.4spd). I put these in the Issue Tracker 3 weeks ago but they have not yet been fixed. If you are not happy with the current exploit with these weapons then go push the issues and have them fixed.

https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issues/221a9bf6-ede7-406d-90da-bb818c421e5b
https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issues/c11e0a51-3775-4de9-ba00-e7e50928843c
https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issues/183aad26-39df-4617-bb15-320a95f652ee

(have to sign in to the issue tracker to view)

Thu 27 Sep 2018 1:03 PM by florin

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 27 Sep 2018 4:09 AM
Luri Nightshades hitting for 1k+ PA easily on casters. 1 shots happen all the time. Getting hit for 1300 damage in 1 hit by a ns. It's nonsense. Just wait a few weeks after launch when they are camping roads in emain with their raid weapons etc... That is not how it was in 1.65.

I am sure a lot of the ones disagreeing with this post are milegate stealthers looking to 1 shot fresh temped casters.

buffed and templated rr7+ against crap resists untemplated, unbuffed wizard...what outcome do you expect Menywn?

Thu 27 Sep 2018 6:35 PM by defiasbandit

Some changes were made to stealthers with this new patch.

I think the stealth playstyle should totally be playable and they should counter cloth wearers. Im all for really quick deaths.

Just have felt their openers were a bit off. Let's see how it plays out.

Thu 27 Sep 2018 6:49 PM by florin

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 27 Sep 2018 6:35 PM
Some changes were made to stealthers with this new patch.

I think the stealth playstyle should totally be playable and they should counter cloth wearers. Im all for really quick deaths.

Just have felt their openers were a bit off. Let's see how it plays out.

not so quick - SB 2h damage was upped -- youre gonna get 1 shot wearing chain now.

Thu 27 Sep 2018 6:50 PM by defiasbandit

I brought this up because I just remember it being different back during SI.

Here I'm like running through emain amg and some lerprechaun stabs me in the back for like double my hp pool. He just dumps me in the mud and skitters off with a little tee hee grin on his five polygon leprechaun face.

Im sitting there like wut.

My jaw hanging there as my eyeballs furiously slide from side to side.

Do I laugh or do I cry?

Thu 27 Sep 2018 6:55 PM by defiasbandit

florin wrote: ↑
Thu 27 Sep 2018 6:49 PM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 27 Sep 2018 6:35 PM
Some changes were made to stealthers with this new patch.

I think the stealth playstyle should totally be playable and they should counter cloth wearers. Im all for really quick deaths.

Just have felt their openers were a bit off. Let's see how it plays out.

not so quick - SB 2h damage was upped -- youre gonna get 1 shot wearing chain now.

Be prepared. Norsewoman Igloogal crits your torso for 1550 damage

Thu 27 Sep 2018 6:57 PM by florin

Be prepared. Norsewoman Igloogal crits your torso for 1550 damage

I'd be ok with that

Thu 27 Sep 2018 7:15 PM by defiasbandit

florin wrote: ↑
Thu 27 Sep 2018 6:57 PM
Be prepared. Norsewoman Igloogal crits your torso for 1550 damage

I'd be ok with that

Believe me. I know you would.

Thu 27 Sep 2018 7:16 PM by florin

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Thu 27 Sep 2018 7:15 PM
florin wrote: ↑
Thu 27 Sep 2018 6:57 PM
Be prepared. Norsewoman Igloogal crits your torso for 1550 damage

I'd be ok with that

Believe me. I know you would.

yuuuge

Thu 27 Sep 2018 8:07 PM by poisonclover

Cider wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Sep 2018 12:06 AM
So this is just a problem for alb? And to correct it you basically want to propose a nerf to the other realms because they put in the effort to get open raids going and albs (according to you,) dont? Sorry but that appears to be pretty selfish.

If your own realm is not running open raids to join, here is a novel idea, why not run them yourself? If the situation is as dire as you say, then many will jump at the opportunity and are likely to be patient while you find your feet running it.

Not once did I propose a nerf to other realms lol. But I know you see my point. And if you don't let me remind you of how old most of us our now and we cant sit online for 8+ hours a day playing an MMO waiting for a Raid, that feather purchases are going to lower the chance of finding even more, unless there is some kind of benefit to the people who have already done them. ( IE: LOOT YOU CAN'T PURCHASE, ONLY DROPS ) Why rush people to not needing anything on live, How long do you think this server is going to survive without something more then Realm rank to earn?