Logic behind lowering healing instants?

I am just curious as to what metrics or logic were used in making the decision to lower the instant heals from 10/15m to 5/10m respectively?

I don't really see the logic in giving them a much better heal that is highly power efficient AND giving them more instants... Were both really necessary?

I can understand the better major heal because that rewards good play where people are aware of their positioning and can get the heal off, but lower instant heal timers just makes them that easier on somebody to just throw out because it will be back up in such a quick time frame.

Are these healer changes set in stone or still keeping an eye on them?

Thu 20 Sep 2018 8:08 AM by amoz

Revert cast speed changes on Major
Revert power cost changes on Greater
Revert cooldown changes on instant heals.

Major is still very power efficient, it's just less good at outhealing burst damage.
Greater heal still has incredible hp/s, but now there is some drawback to spam it.
Cooldowns should be managed, not facerolled every inc.

Thu 20 Sep 2018 10:48 AM by Hammurabi0788

Wasn't there a vote to return these to normal and it won....

Thu 20 Sep 2018 11:22 AM by Lynx

if heal instas timer is reduced why not reduce timer for active RA?

Thu 20 Sep 2018 1:41 PM by Joc

Specifically purge.

Fri 21 Sep 2018 3:20 PM by chryso

Sounds like a bunch of DPSers whining that they cant kill as fast.
Longer fights sound like fun to me. With a 5-10 minute cooldown these will only be up once per fight.
I like the change.

Fri 21 Sep 2018 5:24 PM by defiasbandit

Should be changed back to how they were. This isnt wow.

Fri 21 Sep 2018 9:19 PM by Takii

I don't understand what issue this actually causes. You'll basically never have them up twice a fight.

Why is it a problem for instant heals to be available every fight? These only exist on classes that basically can't solo, so what's the issue?

Fri 21 Sep 2018 9:31 PM by defiasbandit

Instant heals in DAOC come on. I know they wre part of the game, but why make it even easier.

Even if they are not RAs I do not understand the point of tweaking them. Make the game easier? Healers are strong as is.

Clerics, druids, healears are all some of the best rvr classes.

Sat 22 Sep 2018 1:37 AM by Takii

Uh what? Instant heals are not Realm Abilities.

The only thing a shorter cooldown on instant heals does is allow your healers to save your ass more often. It applies the same way to all realms.

Why is that a problem? I see people complaining about it but I've yet to see an actual reason mentioned beyond just that it's not like it was in live.

Sat 22 Sep 2018 4:05 AM by Falken

Takii wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Sep 2018 1:37 AM
Uh what? Instant heals are not Realm Abilities.

The only thing a shorter cooldown on instant heals does is allow your healers to save your ass more often. It applies the same way to all realms.

Why is that a problem? I see people complaining about it but I've yet to see an actual reason mentioned beyond just that it's not like it was in live.

Did you read my post or just hit reply and start rambling?

"I can understand the better major heal because that rewards good play where people are aware of their positioning and can get the heal off, but lower instant heal timers just makes them that easier on somebody to just throw out because it will be back up in such a quick time frame."

If you are looking for a reason that it gives an advantage to one realm over the others it really doesn't, except some group compositions may favor running 3 primary healers due to how strong instant heals are (hib 5 natty 3 druids, 6 instants 3 GPs... good luck) no one realm gains an advantage, but having more regular access to instant heals just takes some of the risk/reward out of actually healing while also making fights last a stupidly long time. I am fine with lengthy fights, but you pretty much can't go OOP if you are spamming pots/mcl and using power efficient major. The action is fast here, timers should be used sparingly and not as an initial and first reaction to any/every situation.

Sat 22 Sep 2018 4:12 AM by Takii

We aren't talking about 2 minute cooldowns here.

The only difference between 10/15 minute instant heals and 5/10 minute instant heals is that the latter are more likely to be available every fight.

Neither of them will be available more than once per fight in 99% of cases. What a lower timer does is make it more common that both groups fighting will have all their instant heals available for that fight, therefore putting them on a more even playing field.

Sat 22 Sep 2018 7:32 AM by Tomahawk

I'm in favor of the lowered times. I have to say I was surprised that anyone would take issue with the change. And so I took the time to really think about why it would make a significant enough difference to warrant the complaint. After thinking more on it I haven't found reasonable enough reasons why it should be reverted back. I don't find the OP's, nor anyone else's, arguments compelling enough to change my mind. I'll keep an open mind going forward in case something else is presented.

Sat 22 Sep 2018 11:55 PM by Falken

Appreciate the back and forth (not really), but I am curious if a dev or somebody behind the scene can voice WHY it was done from their perspective.

Mon 24 Sep 2018 5:56 PM by defiasbandit

The healing classes are some of the best already. Clerics, druids, and healers are pretty overtuned as is. Their buffs are also too strong also.

Why make it easier for them by lowering cds on instacast heals? Do no think there is a need for it.

Mon 24 Sep 2018 11:03 PM by poisonclover

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Sep 2018 9:31 PM
Instant heals in DAOC come on. I know they wre part of the game, but why make it even easier.

Even if they are not RAs I do not understand the point of tweaking them. Make the game easier? Healers are strong as is.

Clerics, druids, healears are all some of the best rvr classes.

is this serious? best rvr classes? I mained a smite cleric on live to rr11. Here its legit cannon fodder. mez is resisted almost 80% of the time( 5 min timer) . and stun is purged 60% of the time. Power cost is through the roof. and no access to RAs to make them crit. best rvr classes? in what regard? Being able to heal others? limited to being a buff bot or a heal bot? druids who dot get kicked from groups, healers who don't have Pom4+ don't even get a group.. I think these classes need revisiting to make them rvr friendly without sitting at PK asking for groups, should be able to have some viability other then using these 5 min insta heals on their self to extend the inevitable.

so sure, nerf the instas, but fix the forced specs on these classes, to make them more viable if we cant even get a 5 min resuse insta without some assassin im sure crying he couldn't kill someone in the 3 hits he usually does and it took him 5 instead.

Tue 25 Sep 2018 12:16 AM by Ganaka

People don't die fast enough!! Nerf Healers!!

Tue 25 Sep 2018 1:28 AM by Tomahawk

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Sep 2018 5:56 PM
The healing classes are some of the best already. Clerics, druids, and healers are pretty overtuned as is. Their buffs are also too strong also.

Why make it easier for them by lowering cds on instacast heals? Do no think there is a need for it.

What?!?
Did you just make that up? Please, qualify your opinions when you make such bold, and seemingly ridiculous, statements.

Tue 25 Sep 2018 1:55 AM by Armsmancer

Tomahawk wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Sep 2018 1:28 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Sep 2018 5:56 PM
The healing classes are some of the best already. Clerics, druids, and healers are pretty overtuned as is. Their buffs are also too strong also.

Why make it easier for them by lowering cds on instacast heals? Do no think there is a need for it.

What?!?
Did you just make that up? Please, qualify your opinions when you make such bold, and seemingly ridiculous, statements.

Don't bother, alb chat is full of his blanket statements and fiats without anything to back them up since his source is his feelings and no actual hard data.

Tue 25 Sep 2018 6:43 AM by defiasbandit

poisonclover wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Sep 2018 11:03 PM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Sep 2018 9:31 PM
Instant heals in DAOC come on. I know they wre part of the game, but why make it even easier.

Even if they are not RAs I do not understand the point of tweaking them. Make the game easier? Healers are strong as is.

Clerics, druids, healears are all some of the best rvr classes.

is this serious? best rvr classes? I mained a smite cleric on live to rr11. Here its legit cannon fodder. mez is resisted almost 80% of the time( 5 min timer) . and stun is purged 60% of the time. Power cost is through the roof. and no access to RAs to make them crit. best rvr classes? in what regard? Being able to heal others? limited to being a buff bot or a heal bot? druids who dot get kicked from groups, healers who don't have Pom4+ don't even get a group.. I think these classes need revisiting to make them rvr friendly without sitting at PK asking for groups, should be able to have some viability other then using these 5 min insta heals on their self to extend the inevitable.

so sure, nerf the instas, but fix the forced specs on these classes, to make them more viable if we cant even get a 5 min resuse insta without some assassin im sure crying he couldn't kill someone in the 3 hits he usually does and it took him 5 instead.

I agree with you. Healer alt specs should be buffed. No reason to be handing out lower insta spells to healers. Forcing them into the single buffbot/heal role is boring.
Smite cleric should return especially with all the uncapped spirit temps around.

Tue 25 Sep 2018 6:44 AM by defiasbandit

Tomahawk wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Sep 2018 1:28 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Sep 2018 5:56 PM
The healing classes are some of the best already. Clerics, druids, and healers are pretty overtuned as is. Their buffs are also too strong also.

Why make it easier for them by lowering cds on instacast heals? Do no think there is a need for it.

What?!?
Did you just make that up? Please, qualify your opinions when you make such bold, and seemingly ridiculous, statements.

You really think buffs don't make a difference. Go fight somebody with healer buffs while unbuffed. I'm not acting like the healing classes are godly, but I'd rather they reduce their buffs in exchange for lowering cds on heals.

Tue 25 Sep 2018 1:55 PM by Kaziera

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Sep 2018 6:44 AM
Tomahawk wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Sep 2018 1:28 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Sep 2018 5:56 PM
The healing classes are some of the best already. Clerics, druids, and healers are pretty overtuned as is. Their buffs are also too strong also.

Why make it easier for them by lowering cds on instacast heals? Do no think there is a need for it.

What?!?
Did you just make that up? Please, qualify your opinions when you make such bold, and seemingly ridiculous, statements.

You really think buffs don't make a difference. Go fight somebody with healer buffs while unbuffed. I'm not acting like the healing classes are godly, but I'd rather they reduce their buffs in exchange for lowering cds on heals.

So much randomness.

What is your DETAILED reasoning to do so? Which observations LIKE DMG VALUES OR LOGS OR EXTENSIVER TESTING make you come to this conclusion? What are the intended effects of your changes? OR WTF DO YOU WANT.

Tue 25 Sep 2018 5:36 PM by Armsmancer

I told you guys stop bothering alb chat is full of all of this same capriciousness from him. This dude asks some of the most noob questions then in same breath tells what needs buffed and nerfed but doesn't understand how most of this game works. It really is the situation of someone in their second day of rvr dying to a ranger, and going to the forums saying how rangers are OP, this is what is happening. Adjust accordingly.

Tue 25 Sep 2018 5:39 PM by daocgod

logic is the people behind the decision were never competitive in 8v8 and did not know any consequences to this change

Tue 25 Sep 2018 6:53 PM by Kaziera

Armsmancer wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Sep 2018 5:36 PM
I told you guys stop bothering alb chat is full of all of this same capriciousness from him. This dude asks some of the most noob questions then in same breath tells what needs buffed and nerfed but doesn't understand how most of this game works. It really is the situation of someone in their second day of rvr dying to a ranger, and going to the forums saying how rangers are OP, this is what is happening. Adjust accordingly.

thats what im doing. debunk the trash he is talking. otherwise ppl might start believing what he is saying. you know there are ppl out there who will one day believe something, just because its beeing repeated loud enough and often enough.

Tue 25 Sep 2018 7:34 PM by defiasbandit

What is there to argue? Playing in a group with a cleric, druid, or healer is typically a big advantage. Small man and 8man. Why widen the gap even more and make those classes easier to play? They are some of the most popular as is.

Casted buffs in DAOC are too strong as is. It would be better if they improved smite clerics or battle druid specs. Making the healing specs even more viable can have drastic impact on the balance of the game.

Tue 25 Sep 2018 8:23 PM by Pendalith

Im all for making smite great again ^^

Tue 25 Sep 2018 9:45 PM by defiasbandit

If healers are going to get lower cds on instas, then how about some lower CDs on RAs for casters.

Tue 25 Sep 2018 9:55 PM by Ganaka

If the group size were lowered to 5 or 6, then the group heals and group buffs wouldn't be nearly as powerful. Just sayin...

Tue 25 Sep 2018 10:22 PM by Aincrad

I am also in favor of the lowered times. I think it was a great change and hope it doesn't change!

Tue 25 Sep 2018 10:35 PM by Takii

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Sep 2018 9:45 PM
If healers are going to get lower cds on instas, then how about some lower CDs on RAs for casters.

Ganaka wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Sep 2018 9:55 PM
If the group size were lowered to 5 or 6, then the group heals and group buffs wouldn't be nearly as powerful. Just sayin...

These two posts have so little to do with this that it legit feels like they're in the wrong thread...

Tue 25 Sep 2018 10:51 PM by Armsmancer

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Sep 2018 9:03 PM

Wed 26 Sep 2018 7:49 AM by Kaziera

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Sep 2018 7:34 PM
What is there to argue? Playing in a group with a cleric, druid, or healer is typically a big advantage. Small man and 8man. Why widen the gap even more and make those classes easier to play? They are some of the most popular as is.

Casted buffs in DAOC are too strong as is. It would be better if they improved smite clerics or battle druid specs. Making the healing specs even more viable can have drastic impact on the balance of the game.

And wrong again. Its the old rule. If all are buffed the same, nobody is buffed. Of all healers have faster instants, IT DOESNT MATTER FOR THE BALANCE. It just ist more convenient. Aka QOL. God really dude. Start thinking with your thinker.

Wed 26 Sep 2018 8:29 AM by schreon

Kaziera wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Sep 2018 7:49 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 25 Sep 2018 7:34 PM
What is there to argue? Playing in a group with a cleric, druid, or healer is typically a big advantage. Small man and 8man. Why widen the gap even more and make those classes easier to play? They are some of the most popular as is.

Casted buffs in DAOC are too strong as is. It would be better if they improved smite clerics or battle druid specs. Making the healing specs even more viable can have drastic impact on the balance of the game.

And wrong again. Its the old rule. If all are buffed the same, nobody is buffed. Of all healers have faster instants, IT DOESNT MATTER FOR THE BALANCE. It just ist more convenient. Aka QOL. God really dude. Start thinking with your thinker.

I'm quite sure he does not mean inter-realm balance, but inter-class balance. And considering that, he is right in that buff classes have an insane impact compared to all other classes. Consider a group of 3 non-buffclasscharacters. Adding a druid/cleric/shaman with buffs to that group adds more strength to that group than any other class. In that sense, you could think of a "utility score" for classes, similar to what we see on items. Considering this, lowering instant-heal timers clearly increases that "utility score" for all healclasses.

Personally, I think lower instant heal timers are a good thing though, because they indirectly extend the length of fights. Longer fights are more interesting, hence more fun, hence that is an improvement in my book.

Fiddling with the delve values of buffs might seem to be reasonable from a completely neutral game design perspective. However touching buffs has so big impacts on everything, ranging from PvE encounters getting out of balance to everything else in RvR. Thus if there was any desire to reduce the relative utility of buff/healclasses, the more sane way would be to increase the effectiveness of potions and charges and introduce more ways to self-heal. The most extreme measure would be to add buffbot NPCs which grant all capped buffs. That would reduce the relative utility of all buff-skills to 0, because as Kaziera correctly stated: if everyone is buffed, nobody is buffed.

The question is if fiddling with the relative utility of buffs and heals is legit in the first place. To some extent I'd say yes, but it has to be done very carefully.

Wed 26 Sep 2018 9:27 AM by Kaziera

Comparing classes that dont compete with others to the classes they dont compete with, sounds even more stupid.

Wed 26 Sep 2018 5:39 PM by defiasbandit

Powerful buffs, instaheals, etc.. Make it pretty much impossible to fight certain group sizes. Combine that with High RA and you can not fight back if you are unbuffed.

Making the game easier is a bad thing. The potions should give max buffs.

How is buffed vs non buffed rvr fair? Why have a mechanic that gives somebody such an advantage.

Why do you think buffbots were so rampant on live.

Making potions give full buff stats is most fair. Why do you want imbalanced pvp? So you can beat down unbuffed smallmans?

I understand not wanting to make the classes homogeneous. They should not be. I don't want more classes to get movement speed spells or crowd control or amnesia etc. It can be a slippery slope.

It is great that we get potions to self buff with, but I wonder why not just make them full buffs.

Wed 26 Sep 2018 6:04 PM by Takii

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Sep 2018 5:39 PM
Powerful buffs, instaheals, etc.. Make it pretty much impossible to fight certain group sizes. Combine that with High RA and you can not fight back if you are unbuffed.

Making the game easier is a bad thing. The potions should give max buffs.

How is buffed vs non buffed rvr fair? Why have a mechanic that gives somebody such an advantage.

Dude nearly all of your posts in every thread you post in are about how the game isn't designed for your playstyle. You're correct, it isn't. I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to make it that way when it literally goes against what this server and the game itself is about.

Never was it intended for buffed vs unbuffed to be fair. This game is a product of its time and so yes it includes more hardcore mechanics that would probably not exist in a similar game designed in 2018. But that is specifically what people are here for; they want the original experience with some modern QoL changes.

Besides, some of the stuff you're complaining about makes no sense.

"Combine that with High RA and you can not fight back if you are unbuffed."

Why would you expect to be able to compete with a group that has more people than you, more RAs and more buffs???

Wed 26 Sep 2018 6:20 PM by defiasbandit

Takii wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Sep 2018 6:04 PM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Sep 2018 5:39 PM
Powerful buffs, instaheals, etc.. Make it pretty much impossible to fight certain group sizes. Combine that with High RA and you can not fight back if you are unbuffed.

Making the game easier is a bad thing. The potions should give max buffs.

How is buffed vs non buffed rvr fair? Why have a mechanic that gives somebody such an advantage.

Dude nearly all of your posts in every thread you post in are about how the game isn't designed for your playstyle. You're correct, it isn't. I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to make it that way when it literally goes against what this server and the game itself is about.

Never was it intended for buffed vs unbuffed to be fair. This game is a product of its time and so yes it includes more hardcore mechanics that would probably not exist in a similar game designed in 2018. But that is specifically what people are here for; they want the original experience with some modern QoL changes.

Besides, some of the stuff you're complaining about makes no sense.

"Combine that with High RA and you can not fight back if you are unbuffed."

Why would you expect to be able to compete with a group that has more people than you, more RAs and more buffs???

Just because Mythic designed the game that way does not make it right. I do not think classes should be messed with much or give additional abilities. However the buffing issue plagued DAOC. Offering capped buff potions would not make healing classes unviable. It would just depower the stength of larger or full groups which is a good thing.

Wed 26 Sep 2018 6:21 PM by rubaduck

I get the feeling, that the people who are complaining about the instant timers are the ones who are not playing any of the core healers in the game, or even play in coordinated groups.

A greater heal alone will have a much higher heal over time then instant heals, but due to the fact that it consume a LOT more power you need to balance it out. The instants gives you a leeway for one given situation, and it is extremely rare to have it up again within one single fight. The single target is at 5 minutes right now, and you need to use it very early in the fight for it to be able to come back up within the same fight. The group heal is at 10 minutes and it is quite impossible to keep up the fight long enough to get a second group instant in the same fight. It is emergency healing abilities and not a game changer. Every group has two singles and two groups.

To put it in context: Group Purge is an ability, that if used at the correct time can turn the entire tide of the battle. Group purge is at 30 minutes, and will be a big set back if it had to be used. It might have won you that fight, but it sure as hell will not win you the next one. Group heal will not win you the fight, ever. It will win you a couple of seconds in a fight, but a well coordinated group will either see it as a desperate move and act tactically on it, or it will reset the fight and tip the scale back to a neutral state but never over to a winning point.

Single target heal is the same thing. A winning team will still steam-roll a coordinated target, even if instant single target heal is used or not. It is just one of those abilities that will give you a couple of seconds to recuperate and give you a window of opportunity, nothing else.

Anyone who plays druid, cleric or healer knows this. Every 8 man group knows this. So who are the ones complaining?

I can only imagine salty soloers, or stealthers who add to a fight and get spanked for the effort, but that is just me.

Wed 26 Sep 2018 6:31 PM by defiasbandit

rubaduck wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Sep 2018 6:21 PM
I get the feeling, that the people who are complaining about the instant timers are the ones who are not playing any of the core healers in the game, or even play in coordinated groups.

A greater heal alone will have a much higher heal over time then instant heals, but due to the fact that it consume a LOT more power you need to balance it out. The instants gives you a leeway for one given situation, and it is extremely rare to have it up again within one single fight. The single target is at 5 minutes right now, and you need to use it very early in the fight for it to be able to come back up within the same fight. The group heal is at 10 minutes and it is quite impossible to keep up the fight long enough to get a second group instant in the same fight. It is emergency healing abilities and not a game changer. Every group has two singles and two groups.

To put it in context: Group Purge is an ability, that if used at the correct time can turn the entire tide of the battle. Group purge is at 30 minutes, and will be a big set back if it had to be used. It might have won you that fight, but it sure as hell will not win you the next one. Group heal will not win you the fight, ever. It will win you a couple of seconds in a fight, but a well coordinated group will either see it as a desperate move and act tactically on it, or it will reset the fight and tip the scale back to a neutral state but never over to a winning point.

Single target heal is the same thing. A winning team will still steam-roll a coordinated target, even if instant single target heal is used or not. It is just one of those abilities that will give you a couple of seconds to recuperate and give you a window of opportunity, nothing else.

Anyone who plays druid, cleric or healer knows this. Every 8 man group knows this. So who are the ones complaining?

I can only imagine salty soloers, or stealthers who add to a fight and get spanked for the effort, but that is just me.

Groups in RvR should be capped at 5 anyway.

99% of the playerbase doesn't premade 8man and never did.

Wed 26 Sep 2018 6:42 PM by rubaduck

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Sep 2018 6:31 PM
Groups in RvR should be capped at 5 anyway.

99% of the playerbase doesn't premade 8man and never did.

And there it goes. That alone should be the end of the argument. Core healers are not meant for solo, they are to be played as a smallman group or an 8 man group and the instas are just tools to make them successful within a short period of time. If a soloer is stupid (and let me emphasize stupid) to add on a smallman or a group that controls a fight, they should of course be punished for not investigating the fight adequatly. The timers are not the reason why they lost, the timers are not the reason they got spanked, it is their poor skill of judgement and have always been regardless if the timers were 10/15 or 5/10.

Wed 26 Sep 2018 11:42 PM by Falken

rubaduck wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Sep 2018 6:21 PM
To put it in context: Group Purge is an ability, that if used at the correct time can turn the entire tide of the battle. Group purge is at 30 minutes, and will be a big set back if it had to be used. It might have won you that fight, but it sure as hell will not win you the next one. Group heal will not win you the fight, ever. It will win you a couple of seconds in a fight, but a well coordinated group will either see it as a desperate move and act tactically on it, or it will reset the fight and tip the scale back to a neutral state but never over to a winning point.

If the instas don't win you the fight, why do you need them to be up more often? From your perspective they are deserving of a lower timer because they just aren't that important, okay so why do we need them on lower timers? They don't win you fights, therefor it should be okay for them to go back to where they were, and you can keep your more power efficient cast heal.

My primary POV is from group play, not a whiney soloer or stealther, just fyi. This has nothing to do with balance issues, but the fact that a 5 minute timer is nothing in this game and whether you want to believe it or not 75% of a person's health is a shutdown for a kill attempt which could easily swing momentum in another direction in a fight. Putting instants back to where they were means that people really need to decide if they want to use it this fight (is it already a loss or is it worth pushing through and trying?) or save it because the next fight it could matter. The timers in their current state you just throw them out without even hesitating because whether you are winning or losing they will likely be back up in time for the next fight anyways.

Another point, based on the current meta of "zerg zerg zerg" on this server and everybody adding everywhere, even balanced fights seem few and far between, I would rather NOT have fights take longer due to the fact that it increases the likelihood of getting jammed on either side.

edit: didn't realize you played a druid, ofc you are going to want them to stay as is... enables you to be more of a brainless healer, cheerio carry on.

Wed 26 Sep 2018 11:56 PM by

gruenesschaf

They were lowered as part of the general healer update which puts the healer around 1.83ish or even 1.9xish with some exceptions like greater staying on the primary healer classes. We won't evaluate stuff like that again until i50.

Thu 27 Sep 2018 12:27 AM by rubaduck

Falken wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Sep 2018 11:42 PM
rubaduck wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Sep 2018 6:21 PM
To put it in context: Group Purge is an ability, that if used at the correct time can turn the entire tide of the battle. Group purge is at 30 minutes, and will be a big set back if it had to be used. It might have won you that fight, but it sure as hell will not win you the next one. Group heal will not win you the fight, ever. It will win you a couple of seconds in a fight, but a well coordinated group will either see it as a desperate move and act tactically on it, or it will reset the fight and tip the scale back to a neutral state but never over to a winning point.

If the instas don't win you the fight, why do you need them to be up more often? From your perspective they are deserving of a lower timer because they just aren't that important, okay so why do we need them on lower timers? They don't win you fights, therefor it should be okay for them to go back to where they were, and you can keep your more power efficient cast heal.

My primary POV is from group play, not a whiney soloer or stealther, just fyi. This has nothing to do with balance issues, but the fact that a 5 minute timer is nothing in this game and whether you want to believe it or not 75% of a person's health is a shutdown for a kill attempt which could easily swing momentum in another direction in a fight. Putting instants back to where they were means that people really need to decide if they want to use it this fight (is it already a loss or is it worth pushing through and trying?) or save it because the next fight it could matter. The timers in their current state you just throw them out without even hesitating because whether you are winning or losing they will likely be back up in time for the next fight anyways.

Another point, based on the current meta of "zerg zerg zerg" on this server and everybody adding everywhere, even balanced fights seem few and far between, I would rather NOT have fights take longer due to the fact that it increases the likelihood of getting jammed on either side.

edit: didn't realize you played a druid, ofc you are going to want them to stay as is... enables you to be more of a brainless healer, cheerio carry on.

Put them to 10/15 for all I care, it won't change a bit which is my entire point. 5/10 more or less guarantees it's up each time you go for an 8v8 fight, and that goes both ways. We are arguing over half filled or half empty which means the entire discussion of the timers itself is pointless. And to put it in your terms: if brainless idiot healer me can understand that you are either dumber or just smug and won't admit you're right or wrong.

Fri 28 Sep 2018 1:32 AM by Falken

rubaduck wrote: ↑
Thu 27 Sep 2018 12:27 AM
Put them to 10/15 for all I care, it won't change a bit which is my entire point. 5/10 more or less guarantees it's up each time you go for an 8v8 fight, and that goes both ways. We are arguing over half filled or half empty which means the entire discussion of the timers itself is pointless. And to put it in your terms: if brainless idiot healer me can understand that you are either dumber or just smug and won't admit you're right or wrong.

Glad we can agree they should be reverted back to what they were before.

Fri 28 Sep 2018 2:53 AM by Aincrad

Falken wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Sep 2018 1:32 AM
rubaduck wrote: ↑
Thu 27 Sep 2018 12:27 AM
Put them to 10/15 for all I care, it won't change a bit which is my entire point. 5/10 more or less guarantees it's up each time you go for an 8v8 fight, and that goes both ways. We are arguing over half filled or half empty which means the entire discussion of the timers itself is pointless. And to put it in your terms: if brainless idiot healer me can understand that you are either dumber or just smug and won't admit you're right or wrong.

Glad we can agree they should be reverted back to what they were before.

Glad we can agree that it can stay the same as it is