Looking for SoS-Counter Tactics

Hey there,

I wanted to ask which tactics you guys use in order to counter / survive the SoS phase of an Alb group.

What comes to mind as a Hib player is the Bards' melodies. However, against a focussed melee train, the melodies' tick feels like a drop in the ocean.

Saving the mezz timer for the SoS-Phase feels rather pointless, because minstrels can use their pets to break it and due to SoS have an easy job outkiting enemy pets/melees in order to demezz the meleetrain.

What can mid groups do about it, considering they have no RA like melodies?

Thank you.

Sun 16 Sep 2018 2:20 PM by Magesty

There is a reason SoS was changed and given to all realms in NF. I’ll be curious to see what strategies people have to deal with it in its current form.

Sun 16 Sep 2018 4:33 PM by vulna

Mez is the best counter, followed by a stun on any demezzer who might be free(or even the minst pet). People tend to panic and do dumb things during SoS like break mez or run away from guard. Stick closer together, respect CC, and use instas/MoC if you get in a really bad spot.

Mon 17 Sep 2018 7:55 AM by Disco

would be fair if you could use other RA's as a counter against SOS like ichor or twf.
but these are unfortunately completely ineffective.

I've already seen albs with up to 3 minnes.
gg, try hards

Mon 17 Sep 2018 8:20 AM by keen

Just sit down or use buged melodies as long as it's not fixed, welcome to the great world of old ras.
Just get rid of it and go with new ras, much better setup.

Mon 17 Sep 2018 8:56 AM by Druth

My nostalgic younger self loves OF RA's, but my older logic self sees how unbalanced they were.
Add to this that we lack proper data on how many OF RA worked.

Problem is that NF RA's were "balanced" around ToA.

Hows our science department doing on the 2001 timemachine?
Need to tell my younger self not to instal the game, and spare me dissapointments a decade later.
But knowing myself I'd prob sit down with my younger self and play DaoC...

Thu 20 Sep 2018 3:21 PM by Roto23

When an alb is on SOS and they attack do they lose all the SOS benefits?

Thu 20 Sep 2018 5:31 PM by Aincrad

Roto23 wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Sep 2018 3:21 PM
When an alb is on SOS and they attack do they lose all the SOS benefits?

They do not. The alb is free to move around at super speed for the duration of the SOS.

Fri 21 Sep 2018 6:24 AM by Druth

The speed is lower than skald/bard+sprint.
Minstrel can't use if cc'd.
Mez+stuns still mean the affected can't do anything but run.
30 min timer.

The day Albs regularly starts running 2 minstrels (Hibs run 2 bards, so maybe look at that class instead...?), then you might consider if SoS is to strong.
I have no doubt that if Albs could they'd run: 2 cleric, 1 friar, 2 minstrels, 1 sorc, 1 caba, 1 theurg, 1 arms, 1 merc/caba, but they can't.

I do not doubt SoS reigns in the Top 3 of RA's, but it does not beat GP, simply because you will always have 2 GP's in a group, very few groups will have 2xSoS.
And a RA can not be looked as without context of the normal group setup.

Fri 21 Sep 2018 7:55 AM by Lynx

From my experience, albs tend to save SoS as a defensive RA rather than pop it on inc and start slicing you down.
In most cases good groups save it until they get jammed or outnumbered, so they use SoS to fall back and regroup or retreat.

Bad groups can use it in any way - good tool in bad hads = bad.

Sun 23 Sep 2018 3:09 PM by JimD

dont run full tankers and moc

Sun 23 Sep 2018 3:48 PM by Lumpi

Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Sep 2018 6:24 AM
The speed is lower than skald/bard+sprint.
Minstrel can't use if cc'd.
Mez+stuns still mean the affected can't do anything but run.
30 min timer.

The day Albs regularly starts running 2 minstrels (Hibs run 2 bards, so maybe look at that class instead...?), then you might consider if SoS is to strong.
I have no doubt that if Albs could they'd run: 2 cleric, 1 friar, 2 minstrels, 1 sorc, 1 caba, 1 theurg, 1 arms, 1 merc/caba, but they can't.

I do not doubt SoS reigns in the Top 3 of RA's, but it does not beat GP, simply because you will always have 2 GP's in a group, very few groups will have 2xSoS.
And a RA can not be looked as without context of the normal group setup.

Today there is an Alb group ongoing 3-4 Minstrels..., Perma SoS, Red Pets all around you... yeah this is an exception but its annoying as fuck

Tue 25 Sep 2018 11:52 AM by ecopli

Lumpi wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Sep 2018 3:48 PM
Today there is an Alb group ongoing 3-4 Minstrels..., Perma SoS, Red Pets all around you... yeah this is an exception but its annoying as fuck

A lot of fight, don't need to use SoS, a lot of player isn't good in RvR;

only one Hib group killed my group with : 2 melody 4 instant heal, 2 moc heal,purg group (moc on bard 1.68 ... n/c)
my group use, 2 sos, 2 bof, 4instant heal, but i think can win if 4SoS timer is UP.

if you're on mid, Tundra is /oneshoot target bind every 10min;
and you have to MOC heal.

Hibernia for win every fight, just need to use "STT" and all class pet is down.

Fri 28 Sep 2018 5:47 AM by rubaduck

There are very few groups we have encountered that use SoS correct here on phoenix if you ask me. We insta mezz them as soon as possible on inc and the second we see SoS we just kite and wait for it to wear off and laugh our asses off while we obliterate them. Communication is key, recognize the SoS and don't panic. We have one action caller in our group, and his/her voice is the law even if I agree or disagree with it. Don't argue commands during the fight, wait until it is over.

SoS is a super powerful tool, but when groups use it on inc they more or less reveal their ace of spade right away. It tells me that the minstrel or group doesn't read their opponent and tries a one-trick-pony move. Get a mezz off before they SoS and don't touch them, if they SoS before the mezz goes off just keep the team alive and kite as much as possible until it is off and then engage. If they run, just follow them until it drops and pick up the fight. Be ready to use cooldowns but try not to prioritize purges if it can be saved.

The only time I am struck with mortal fear, is when they use SoS mid fight and in most cases we have lost the fight because of it. But so far only a handful of Alb groups I've fought against does it and these groups are usually known for being very good too.

Tue 9 Oct 2018 7:57 AM by Sei

Druth wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Sep 2018 8:56 AM
My nostalgic younger self loves OF RA's, but my older logic self sees how unbalanced they were.
Add to this that we lack proper data on how many OF RA worked.

Problem is that NF RA's were "balanced" around ToA.

Hows our science department doing on the 2001 timemachine?
Need to tell my younger self not to instal the game, and spare me dissapointments a decade later.
But knowing myself I'd prob sit down with my younger self and play DaoC...

I think the best way to balance Ra is to keep the old RA, but to replace the active with the New RA, especially SOS and Melody which we will aller agree are the cancer of this version

Just read the answer of this thread, the only counter to current SOS require more coordination than even fixes group with vocal will struggle to execute.

Alb IS already barely op without SOS

Tue 9 Oct 2018 8:07 AM by Druth

Sei wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Oct 2018 7:57 AM
I think the best way to balance Ra is to keep the old RA, but to replace the active with the New RA, especially SOS and Melody which we will aller agree are the cancer of this version

Cancer RA's:

- SoS, but keep in mind that Albion does NOT have insta aoe CC, and their main CC class is wearing cloth. So if you adjust SoS you need to give Sorcs that RR5 they got in NF that gives them 90% evade or whatever it was. But there is no reason for SoS to affect the minstrel, this would be a minor nerf, but the only one I see making without gimping alb groups.

- BoF, on 2 spots in group... this is one major reason to never take friar over cleric. But in regards to the above point, Albion needs it to not loose sorc on every inc.

- Group Purge, on 2 spots... really just insanely strong. Add to this that Hibs have insta aoe mez, and insta aoe root. This should at the very least not affect druid, or should have a much much smaller radius. Even group purge with 500 radius would still be taken. Alone the ability to have 2 purges on a char would be dreamy.

- AM, also strong and should not affect bard, and with Group Purge it makes hib groups have a survivability other realms dream of.

In general, I think all of the above RA's major fault, is that it affects the caster.

Tue 9 Oct 2018 12:41 PM by Sei

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Oct 2018 8:07 AM

This is an interesting point and would worth to be trier.

However i think you exagerate the vulnerability of the sorcerer, they are just as vulnerable as other cloth caster but with an incredible strong set of spells. The lack of insta is widely compensated by the range + higher dex+ antimezz self

Alb as the best caster combo (sorc+caba) a unique caster power with Theur, and the minstrel. Their only weakness is the cleric who without bof would be rly underpowered

Tue 9 Oct 2018 1:01 PM by Druth

Sei wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Oct 2018 12:41 PM
However i think you exagerate the vulnerability of the sorcerer, they are just as vulnerable as other cloth caster but with an incredible strong set of spells. The lack of insta is widely compensated by the range + higher dex+ antimezz self

Alb as the best caster combo (sorc+caba) a unique caster power with Theur, and the minstrel. Their only weakness is the cleric who without bof would be rly underpowered

No other realm is that reliant on a cloth caster as albs. If sorc dies, group needs some serious luck to not also die.
RM dies? Fine, no more NS, but still wiannable.
Eld dies? Same.

If you rely on antimez to kick in, you have lost. And range+dex is not something you win inc with, unless you get a good inc-angle.

I am in no way saying sorcs are bad, just that the above is needed to counter the flaws. It was not without reason they got "Shield that absorbs 90% melee/archer damage for 20 seconds." as RR5 ability.

Wed 10 Oct 2018 8:17 AM by Pretissimo

Funny to read in what a bad spot alb groups are specially when group purge is up and the after nerf melody is really uber ^^

But whats really happen here is; it is very very hard to beat a good alb group i would say as a hib group (doesnt matter if melee or hybrid) you can win 2 - 3 out of 10 fights against a good alb group and as mid maybe 1-2 and these wins are mainly if sos, or bof isnt up and with a good hit. With SOS, 2 times Bof and SB you have to survive like ages before you start beating them properly. On Utghard it was nearly the same just the mid groups was in a bit more worse spot before they start using thundra, what is already nerfd here.

So my suggestion would be to change sos to the new version where you loose it after an offensive action.

Wed 10 Oct 2018 9:11 AM by Druth

Pretissimo wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Oct 2018 8:17 AM
Funny to read in what a bad spot hib groups are specially when sos is up and the after nerf bof is really uber ^^

But whats really happen here is; it is very very hard to beat a good 5 nat hib group i would say as a alb group (doesnt matter if melee or hybrid) you can win 2 - 3 out of 10 fights against a good hib group and as mid maybe 1-2 and these wins are mainly if GP, or AM isnt up and with a good hit. With 2xGP, 2 times AM and PBT you have to survive like ages before you start beating them properly. On Utghard it was nearly the same just the mid groups was in a bit more worse spot before they start using thundra, what is already nerfd here.

So my suggestion would be to change sos to the new version where you loose it after an offensive action.

I changed very little, and funny enough it's still true.
You mention good groups, might be that you are not in that catagory and that the good hib groups beat good alb group?
Personally I acknowledged a long time ago, that I was not in the top 5-10% of the players (no idea where I lie, but def. not the top). I think many DaoC would do well to also come to the conclussion, would make them complain a lot less about OP this, and nerf that.
Human mind is funny, we have a tendensy tofocus more on losses more than wins, it's called "Loss Aversion". In general, people will tend to prefer not loosing 5$, to winning 5$, despite them having the same outcome for us over time.

The only thing you can trust, since everyone are biased and their opinion is highly subjective (just go back and read people defending warlocks pre-nerf), are statistics. And the rp divide this week from top 250 players, is 31% albion, 33% hibernia, 36% midgard, and last week it was 32% alb, 38% hib and 30% mid.
I actually think this seems like the realms are pretty fairly balanced?

OF RA favours the two realms that get good RA's, when they are up. Just the way OF RA's were broken.
I would love NF RA's here, with RR5 and all. Despite them being balanced around ToA, they were still better designed.

Wed 10 Oct 2018 10:32 AM by opossum12

My main issue with NF RAs was that they cost a lot more points than OF RAs, which accentuates the gap between high rank and low rank groups.

I only think small tweaks to OF RAs are required in my opinion, but Mid definitely got shafted when they were handed out.

Wed 10 Oct 2018 3:10 PM by Pretissimo

Druth wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Oct 2018 9:11 AM
Pretissimo wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Oct 2018 8:17 AM
Funny to read in what a bad spot hib groups are specially when sos is up and the after nerf bof is really uber ^^

But whats really happen here is; it is very very hard to beat a good 5 nat hib group i would say as a alb group (doesnt matter if melee or hybrid) you can win 2 - 3 out of 10 fights against a good hib group and as mid maybe 1-2 and these wins are mainly if GP, or AM isnt up and with a good hit. With 2xGP, 2 times AM and PBT you have to survive like ages before you start beating them properly. On Utghard it was nearly the same just the mid groups was in a bit more worse spot before they start using thundra, what is already nerfd here.

So my suggestion would be to change sos to the new version where you loose it after an offensive action.

I changed very little, and funny enough it's still true.
You mention good groups, might be that you are not in that catagory and that the good hib groups beat good alb group?
Personally I acknowledged a long time ago, that I was not in the top 5-10% of the players (no idea where I lie, but def. not the top). I think many DaoC would do well to also come to the conclussion, would make them complain a lot less about OP this, and nerf that.
Human mind is funny, we have a tendensy tofocus more on losses more than wins, it's called "Loss Aversion". In general, people will tend to prefer not loosing 5$, to winning 5$, despite them having the same outcome for us over time.

The only thing you can trust, since everyone are biased and their opinion is highly subjective (just go back and read people defending warlocks pre-nerf), are statistics. And the rp divide this week from top 250 players, is 31% albion, 33% hibernia, 36% midgard, and last week it was 32% alb, 38% hib and 30% mid.
I actually think this seems like the realms are pretty fairly balanced?

OF RA favours the two realms that get good RA's, when they are up. Just the way OF RA's were broken.
I would love NF RA's here, with RR5 and all. Despite them being balanced around ToA, they were still better designed.

He He could be that i am not in the category to be a good player but i talk also to many different good players (and specially members of good groups) and they tell me they experience about 8vs8 vs good alb groups. This in combination that i played also alb on Uthgard makes me to come to the conclusion that alb grps are overpowerd.

Sure you can talk about the rp divided and % split bla bla but that makes no sense to compare 8vs8 situations.

Fact is alb grps have more toys in 8vs8 than the other realms. And specially this "offensive" SOS version here is too strong.

Wed 10 Oct 2018 6:53 PM by Druth

Pretissimo wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Oct 2018 3:10 PM
He He could be that i am not in the category to be a good player but i talk also to many different good players (and specially members of good groups) and they tell me they experience about 8vs8 vs good alb groups. This in combination that i played also alb on Uthgard makes me to come to the conclusion that alb grps are overpowerd.

Sure you can talk about the rp divided and % split bla bla but that makes no sense to compare 8vs8 situations.

Fact is alb grps have more toys in 8vs8 than the other realms. And specially this "offensive" SOS version here is too strong.

First of all, balance is not 8v8, it's RvR.
Second, if alb groups told you they were to strong, it be credible, if hib/mid group told you so it's not credible, because they have a direct interest in easier fights.
Thirdly, if rps are divided roughly even, it should tell you Albs need the toys. If they did not have them the numbers would have albs in the bottom.

I played a minstrel when there was talk about nerfing pet charm, and I advocated to nerf minstrels.
That was me playing minstrel as main, wanting minstrels nerfed, that is credible.

I stopped playing them, but I did so before the nerfs came as I was bored and started an armsman.

We do agree though that NF RA's are better suited for DaoC.
And I am sorry if my earlier post came of condescending, was just me acting tough.

Mon 15 Oct 2018 4:17 PM by Zenobi

The problem with using the balance of rp's to determine anything is the inherent differences in how each realm approaches RvR which can skew those numbers. Having played both Hib and Alb so far I can say the difference is night and day the amount of communication and cooperation and organization that happens on Hib to ensure the realm comes out on top even when the /serverinfo shows consistently they have less numbers. Alb side I have yet to see any coordination or cooperation or even a hint of organization. This causes the balance of RP's to be inconsistent as a means to determine the balance of power in tools.

Tue 16 Oct 2018 6:46 AM by depth

The best counter SoS mechanic on Pheonix is to play a minstrel.

Tue 16 Oct 2018 12:30 PM by daocgod

1) Play Alb
2) Pray they are retarded and make poor use of their sos
3) Moc and pray you dont get instablapped
4) Hope they come back before 30 minutes after getting their win they had to do little to get

Tue 16 Oct 2018 3:09 PM by Pretissimo

daocgod wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 12:30 PM
1) Play Alb
2) Pray they are retarded and make poor use of their sos
3) Moc and pray you dont get instablapped
4) Hope they come back before 30 minutes after getting their win they had to do little to get

its funny but it is also the truth... i hope the gamemasters will look at that and not just answer "works as intended" because this SOS version is in my opinion the biggest inbalance on this server. Its hard enough to fight against all the pets (even purple), 2 times bunker, soldiers barricade and no paladin setups. But on top this offensive SOS version is ridiculous and a big frustrating point.

Tue 16 Oct 2018 4:56 PM by Druth

Pretissimo wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 3:09 PM
daocgod wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 12:30 PM
1) Play Alb
2) Pray they are retarded and make poor use of their sos
3) Moc and pray you dont get instablapped
4) Hope they come back before 30 minutes after getting their win they had to do little to get

its funny but it is also the truth... i hope the gamemasters will look at that and not just answer "works as intended" because this SOS version is in my opinion the biggest inbalance on this server. Its hard enough to fight against all the pets (even purple), 2 times bunker, soldiers barricade and no paladin setups. But on top this offensive SOS version is ridiculous and a big frustrating point.

Are albs dominating the server? Or is it just one RA you dont like?
Because believe me, GP is same lvl of stupid as sos, which is also stupid.

Tue 16 Oct 2018 6:00 PM by Pretissimo

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 4:56 PM
Pretissimo wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 3:09 PM
daocgod wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 12:30 PM
1) Play Alb
2) Pray they are retarded and make poor use of their sos
3) Moc and pray you dont get instablapped
4) Hope they come back before 30 minutes after getting their win they had to do little to get

its funny but it is also the truth... i hope the gamemasters will look at that and not just answer "works as intended" because this SOS version is in my opinion the biggest inbalance on this server. Its hard enough to fight against all the pets (even purple), 2 times bunker, soldiers barricade and no paladin setups. But on top this offensive SOS version is ridiculous and a big frustrating point.

Are albs dominating the server? Or is it just one RA you dont like?
Because believe me, GP is same lvl of stupid as sos, which is also stupid.

GP is very strong indeed but u dont have immunity and can easly get mezzed again. SOS gives you a group purge with full speed charge.

i played mid on utghard 2 and it was so annoying vs good alb groups (maybe 10-20% winrate with melee and hybrid groups and equal rr) after like 4 months we rolled alb and it was way easier in 8vs8 even when we had an lower rr (winrate 40 - 50% vs good groups with lower rr). On phoenix i play hib at the moment and with hybrid and melee groups it is easier compare to mid grps vs good alb groups but still it is like 20 - 30% win rate.

It had a reason why they changed this sos version and they changed sos at a time were u still needed an gimped paladin in group.

Tue 16 Oct 2018 6:15 PM by Druth

Pretissimo wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 6:00 PM
GP is very strong indeed but u dont have immunity and can easly get mezzed again. SOS gives you a group purge with full speed charge.

GP is a group purge, sos is not. Sos is unhintered speed that ignores root/snare effects, but you are still mezzed.
How can you easily mez a hib group that group purged...?

GP and sos are equally broken, you playing hib I understand you can't really see that. But believe me 2xGP is retarded, just like sos is.

Tue 16 Oct 2018 7:30 PM by daocgod

classic daoc just sucks.

Tue 16 Oct 2018 8:01 PM by Pendalith

Did someone say Static Tempest ? Wait, nevermind...

Tue 16 Oct 2018 9:50 PM by rubaduck

Pretissimo wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 6:00 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 4:56 PM
Pretissimo wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 3:09 PM
its funny but it is also the truth... i hope the gamemasters will look at that and not just answer "works as intended" because this SOS version is in my opinion the biggest inbalance on this server. Its hard enough to fight against all the pets (even purple), 2 times bunker, soldiers barricade and no paladin setups. But on top this offensive SOS version is ridiculous and a big frustrating point.

Are albs dominating the server? Or is it just one RA you dont like?
Because believe me, GP is same lvl of stupid as sos, which is also stupid.

GP is very strong indeed but u dont have immunity and can easly get mezzed again. SOS gives you a group purge with full speed charge.

i played mid on utghard 2 and it was so annoying vs good alb groups (maybe 10-20% winrate with melee and hybrid groups and equal rr) after like 4 months we rolled alb and it was way easier in 8vs8 even when we had an lower rr (winrate 40 - 50% vs good groups with lower rr). On phoenix i play hib at the moment and with hybrid and melee groups it is easier compare to mid grps vs good alb groups but still it is like 20 - 30% win rate.

It had a reason why they changed this sos version and they changed sos at a time were u still needed an gimped paladin in group.

This is not true, SOS does not cure mezz or stun or root. If a group who is mezzed, or if a group mezzed while in SoS, they are still considered as crowdcontrolled and can't do any actions unless you hit them or cast on them and break the mezz. A REALLY BAD alb group use their SoS early in the fight just spam mezz as it makes them unable to do anything but move. Just don't attack them. If a GP is used, your group gets the immunity timers, and hibs usually has two GP's so it can't even be compared. SoS is an overrated RA because it's hard to time it perfect, mess it up and you more or less guarantee that your group gets crushed.

Fri 19 Oct 2018 11:58 AM by Sei

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 6:15 PM
Pretissimo wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 6:00 PM
GP is very strong indeed but u dont have immunity and can easly get mezzed again. SOS gives you a group purge with full speed charge.

GP is a group purge, sos is not. Sos is unhintered speed that ignores root/snare effects, but you are still mezzed.
How can you easily mez a hib group that group purged...?

GP and sos are equally broken, you playing hib I understand you can't really see that. But believe me 2xGP is retarded, just like sos is.

2 SOS >>> 2 GP , let s be a bit logical please....

Fri 19 Oct 2018 12:08 PM by Druth

Sei wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Oct 2018 11:58 AM
2 SOS >>> 2 GP , let s be a bit logical please....

First of all, adding "let s be a bit logical please" does not make what you write logical.
It's like saying "As a Christi.." it doesn't make what you'll say next have more value.

Second, I'm not seeing a lot of 2xminstrel groups, but maybe we play different time-zones.

Albs are not dominating RvR, from a pure number (weekly rps) perspective, and from what I've seen Albs without SoS up have a really hard time getting any wins.

Fri 19 Oct 2018 12:17 PM by Sepplord

2 SOS >>> 2 GP , let s be a bit logical please....

If you completely ignore groupsetup...

But if we do that, here's a far better one:

GP is only usefull if the enemy has CC
SOS is always useful

See, i can make braindead comparisons too

Fri 19 Oct 2018 3:23 PM by Sei

Druth wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Oct 2018 12:08 PM
Sei wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Oct 2018 11:58 AM
2 SOS >>> 2 GP , let s be a bit logical please....

First of all, adding "let s be a bit logical please" does not make what you write logical.
It's like saying "As a Christi.." it doesn't make what you'll say next have more value.

Second, I'm not seeing a lot of 2xminstrel groups, but maybe we play different time-zones.

Albs are not dominating RvR, from a pure number (weekly rps) perspective, and from what I've seen Albs without SoS up have a really hard time getting any wins.

I was sure you would argue with set up, but sorry if you want 2 GP you need 2 druids and yes nothing force you to have 2, if you want 2 SOS you need 2minst, that can be absolutely viable.

But please comparing 2 active with 1 is not really fair.

And i dont know on which server you are playing but alb premade are currently dominating the 8v8.

Talking about realm population especially beta IS completely irrelevant for the purpose of this discussion

Fri 19 Oct 2018 3:39 PM by Druth

Sei wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Oct 2018 3:23 PM
I was sure you would argue with set up, but sorry if you want 2 GP you need 2 druids and yes nothing force you to have 2, if you want 2 SOS you need 2minst, that can be absolutely viable.

But please comparing 2 active with 1 is not really fair.

And i dont know on which server you are playing but alb premade are currently dominating the 8v8.

Talking about realm population especially beta IS completely irrelevant for the purpose of this discussion

Thing is, if SoS is that powerful, I think people would run 2 minstrels. People are like that, they like optimising.
Fact is that Alb setup is 1 minstrel, so 1 SoS. Hib setup is 2 druids, so 2 GP.

I think nerfing skills/classes based on subjective view is a bad move, I also think doing the same out of purely a statistically view is also bad.
You need to combine data AND observations to form a conclussion.

Example...: Minstrels were at the start viewed as extremely OP, AND the data also showed they were top rp earners. That is a solid foundation for nerfing.
If people said minstrels were OP, but they didn't even make it to Top 10 weekly, then I would say people were playing scissor to minstrels rock.
And it is Beta, think we'll see in i50 (if many come back and play) if Albs are dominating then we have a better picture, and can discuss if it's SoS doing it, etc...

Especially with a low pop, there is a high risk that the most skilled group of people simply picked Alb.

And finally, you don't nerf a class on the grounds of 8man strength, but in a Realm perspective. I don't care if one alb group dominates 8v8, I care about how Albion (hib/mid) performs as a whole. It gets old, but this is RvR, not 8v8, or 1v1, or 3v3, or even 100v100. It's about the realms as a whole.
Guess that counters me saying minstrels deserved the initial nerfs, but you have exceptions I guess.