Tasks, Events and RP gain killing the server - whats is planed in the future?

hello phoenix team,

i dont know if you are observing what actually happening at the moment. i mean nobody could expect that a server is going the wrong direction as soon as the events starts and i30...
but on top you guys creating a tasksystem whats absolutly insane. people gettin insane amounts of rps in just a short time.

the problem at the moment is, that this kind of stuff isnt daoc anymore. people are running together and zerg task after task, if a task is changing, they just wipe on guards and start to zerg the next task.

running around, fight some 8vs8, fight against setgrps, fight against pugs, fight against zerg, fight against nothing for 10 mins, thats daoc for us at least. not only we are finished with this server until something changed...

if you ask me what to change? stop all that kind of task/test/eventstuff and let daoc as is be for years. people who are not competing in rvr, should play pve instead. people who wants to rvr, can go rvr. but i will suggest something later.

i dont know exactly whats the goal behind all this, but "forcing people" or "helping casuals" to rvr is in my opinion the wrong way. the zerg community wont stay long on this server anyways, people who loves the game because of a good balanced 3 realm rvr system will stay for years.

the rvr system was good already, some nervs/buffs, some balancing and it would be absolutly great.
work on pve parts of the game, so people who are not rvring can get their pve stuff going.

i was so hyped about that server, i loved it until all that testing stuff starts...i mean u guys couldnt know what will happen after your beta testing stuff (events etc.)
i would like to know your goals for that server, daoc is that good because it is like it was for years and now u guys even customize the "normal game" mechanics. stuff like relic raids/keep raids/8vs8/zergs...all that stuff was good before "tasks and events starting" and now the whole game mechanic is changing, people will just task because thats the best way to climp rps over everything else.

my suggestion about the tasksystem in general:

1. remove tasksystem
2. cap rps for tasksystem set to rr4 max. u wont get a single rp for participating in tasks until u kill something gettin the normal kill rps
3. give every full grp (8man) "unique" tasks, so its less zergy.

but on the long term, keeping rps like that will snowball the server fast into empty, just imagine people will get rr10 in 2 months hardcore playing, some in 3, some in 6. how much time will it take until they are done with that server?

a lot of frustration on my side sure, but thats what phoenix is at the moment. just frustration for tons of people who love the game as it was and please guys "dont talk about uthgard now, uthgard is trash" customchanges are fine but dont customize the game itself, let it be as it was.

engl isnt my native language, hope u guys understand overall what i try to say.

thx and cu maybe on live or i50.

Mon 10 Sep 2018 10:55 PM by yallia

This is not going to kill anything. At rr5 which isn't high by any means you only get 1.8k per task, do you actually think people are going to cap ranks with just farming tasks lol ?

What would kill the game is people not having much play time being unable to do any kind of RvR because no life 8man teams that play non stop roll over them.

The tasks allow everyone to get the minimum rr to at least be able to put up a fight in RvR. They also bring people out, creating a lot of action. I've had fun during tasks in solo, smallman, fg and as a part of the zerg.

You just have to adapt what you do depending on what is your setup. If you're running a smallman, then rushing head first into that keep might not be the option.
What you can do though, is look for people who are late to join, wandering around a bit to much trying to tag themselves, look to catch people after they complete the task and move back to tp / suicide etc.
And as you start understanding what's the best you can do with the setup you have for each task, you'll soon realise ennemies have reached the same conclusion, meaning you are most likely to run into similar setups.

You say "people will just task because thats the best way to climp rps over everything else. " but have you actually played the game ? Or what rank exactly are you ? Because like I said at the beguining, getting 1.8k rp at rr5 for a defense or attack task that can last for 30 minutes is NOT worth it ; and by no means this will make people clim to fast.

Get out of your keep, win a solo fight. GG you already made as much rps as a task, in 2 minutes max.

Mon 10 Sep 2018 10:55 PM by Waygone

Hot tip for you buddy...
There's a server out there (starts U, and ends with gard) that doesn't have all these changes. Go check it out. Might be a little lonely though. That's ok though, sounds like actions not your thing.
Personally, I haven't seen RvR action like since the task system was implemented for a LONG time on ANY DAOC server.
Just my opinion

Mon 10 Sep 2018 10:56 PM by Waygone

yallia wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Sep 2018 10:55 PM
This is not going to kill anything. At rr5 which isn't high by any means you only get 1.8k per task, do you actually think people are going to cap ranks with just farming tasks lol ?

What would kill the game is people not having much play time being unable to do any kind of RvR because no life 8man teams that play non stop roll over them.

The tasks allow everyone to get the minimum rr to at least be able to put up a fight in RvR. They also bring people out, creating a lot of action. I've had fun during tasks in solo, smallman, fg and as a part of the zerg.

You just have to adapt what you do depending on what is your setup. If you're running a smallman, then rushing head first into that keep might not be the option.
What you can do though, is look for people who are late to join, wandering around a bit to much trying to tag themselves, look to catch people after they complete the task and move back to tp / suicide etc.
And as you start understanding what's the best you can do with the setup you have for each task, you'll soon realise ennemies have reached the same conclusion, meaning you are most likely to run into similar setups.

You say "people will just task because thats the best way to climp rps over everything else. " but have you actually played the game ? Or what rank exactly are you ? Because like I said at the beguining, getting 1.8k rp at rr5 for a defense or attack task that can last for 30 minutes is NOT worth it ; and by no means this will make people clim to fast.

Get out of your keep, win a solo fight. GG you already made as much rps as a task, in 2 minutes max.

^^^^
This

Mon 10 Sep 2018 11:15 PM by phixion

I am only 2 days in to RvRing here and I'm already RR4L1 and finding the task system rather repetitive.

I think tasks appear too often, it shouldn't be back to back tasking, but more sporadic.

I like the tasks that get people in the same "area", e.g. Emain/Odins/Hadrians etc, I do not like the "Attack/Defend X Keep". It is ridiculous to me that you have people sitting at a keep waiting for it to be attacked and people running in drabs to just suicide for the RPs.

Mon 10 Sep 2018 11:31 PM by yallia

People run and suicide only because they don't have enough people to actualy try to take the keep. Whenever there is enough people, they do try to go for the keep. Which makes for some fine action.

For low rank people, suiciding is a sure way to get a few rps, but for people who get pretty much nothing from the tasks, they don't bother suiciding. They try to catch people who are late to join the defense, they roam around the keep to catch people trying to be to greedy etc.

What I find confusing is that you say "I like the tasks that get people in the same "area", e.g. Emain/Odins/Hadrians etc, I do not like the "Attack/Defend X Keep"" which doesn't make much sense to me.

If you don't like to sit at the keep to defend it, or don't want to rush up and suicide because your realm doesn't have enough people to actually take the keep, just treat that task as a "task that get people in the same area". Because that's what it does. You know where people are going to go, and there is only so many routes to get there. Just take advantage of it and ignore the task if that's what you prefer.

Additionnaly, if tasks were more sporadic, it would defeat the purpose to help casual players. The less time you spend on the game, the least likely you would be to benefit from that "low rr boost".

You say you are already 4L1 and that's great, but to be honest, just keep playing and you'll soon realise task reward are not going to do anything for you pretty soon. This is just meant to help people get to the rank you're at. If not for those, most people would be 3L, frontier zone would be pretty empty, and you would get rolled over by the few 6-8L groups that spend 12 to 15 hours a day farming.

Tue 11 Sep 2018 12:00 AM by Armsmancer

Tue 11 Sep 2018 1:13 AM by Komaf

The sheer fact that these developers have the good sense to at least let the casual (people who have jobs and kids) players have some access to RP gain without standing in the shadows as the leet 8 man's go by, is why I absolutely love this server.

No, we won't get to the elite status of realm rank by doing tasks - but hey, good news, while you're out there with your leet 8 man, you can farm us as we run to the next "pve" event in the frontiers.

Everyone wins, even us dirty casuals, since we get a sense of the game as well.

Tue 11 Sep 2018 1:37 AM by relvinian

When the system was put in it was stated that it would be evaluated for possible changes.

I paraphrase.

Is it good? Some good. Is it bad? Maybe some bad.

Does it need to be just exactly this way or go to uthgard?

NO. This is a beta, we need to be beta testing. Feedback should matter as well as observations from devs.

Anyone RR 9 or 10 yet?

Tue 11 Sep 2018 7:37 AM by Ceen

Befor tasks:

No action, people asking for cathal valley open since no action
After task: action for everyone

Does it have the same feeling as classic daoc? Not at all but I'm not looking for it on this server anyway.

Tue 11 Sep 2018 2:09 PM by phixion

relvinian wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Sep 2018 1:37 AM
When the system was put in it was stated that it would be evaluated for possible changes.

I paraphrase.

Is it good? Some good. Is it bad? Maybe some bad.

Does it need to be just exactly this way or go to uthgard?

NO. This is a beta, we need to be beta testing. Feedback should matter as well as observations from devs.

Anyone RR 9 or 10 yet?

If you give constructive feedback you're seen as a whiner.

You're not supposed to give feedback, and don't bother with bug reports on the tracker, just pray to god everything is sorted for release.

/s btw.

Tue 11 Sep 2018 2:22 PM by relvinian

To quote George Carlin Most people are stupid, full of shit, or crazy.

Add to that the number of people who are essentially selfish and all stress to agree with others goes away.

I'm full of shit, crazy, but im not selfish or stupid.

If you're not selfish or stupid you realize that the server needs several things to sustain itself on launch and we better figure those things out now, in beta.

Tue 11 Sep 2018 3:05 PM by Waygone

relvinian wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Sep 2018 1:37 AM
Does it need to be just exactly this way or go to uthgard?

#1 I'm sure the devs are going to adjust things to the way the majority of the community, and ultimately the vision that THEY feel is best for the server when it comes to RvR and XP progression. So far I'm happy and confident in the devs progress towards that vision.
#2 I didn't mean, and shouldn't have stated it like that(my bad), that the poster get out and go to Uthgard. What i mean is that there are not many DAOC alternatives and Uthgard sounded like a better alternative for what he desired.
I remember you, @relvinian, on Uthgard forums preaching about the demise of the server due to the lack of the devs willingness to change their vision. You were right, but it did last somewhat longer than your prediction if I recall. I appreciate your desire for a healthy active server. We will see if the current action and progression leads to burnout. It's still early but, I for one am enjoying the action currently and think it will almost double at i50. It probably will double or triple again at launch. I just hope things are in place to avoid 2 hour ques to get in game. But, that's for another post.

Tue 11 Sep 2018 3:18 PM by phixion

I think we can all agree that the "testing" should be taking place during the beta, as it's the best place for it.

I'd like to see a test phase which disables the use of pots. I'm genuinely curious to see what the game would be like without access to pots.

Tue 11 Sep 2018 3:56 PM by Nighthexer

That Tasks are realy stupid, thats not the Daoc from the gold Old times. Thats only Heroius Daoc for zerger like life Server.

Tue 11 Sep 2018 4:26 PM by relvinian

If tasks are in on launch then they should remove the bgs.

I did a task at lvl 5 and went to 1L4

Then I bought tireless 2.

I suggest that keeps be safe, daoc be open to all, and no tasks for the first 15 to 30 days.

After that, I think tasks are welcome but I think they should be examined. They need to be looked at in context with the rest of RVR as well as the BGs.

If they leave tasks as they are then the BG's could also be a nice place for events like the football or any other random fun thing the devs can think of.

Tue 11 Sep 2018 5:28 PM by Druth

Nighthexer wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Sep 2018 3:56 PM
That Tasks are realy stupid, thats not the Daoc from the gold Old times. Thats only Heroius Daoc for zerger like life Server.

What were the good old times?
I remember them as being a lot of people, and a lot of zerging/camping.

Tue 11 Sep 2018 5:51 PM by Dis

yallia wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Sep 2018 10:55 PM
You just have to adapt what you do depending on what is your setup. If you're running a smallman, then rushing head first into that keep might not be the option.
What you can do though, is look for people who are late to join, wandering around a bit to much trying to tag themselves, look to catch people after they complete the task and move back to tp / suicide etc.
And as you start understanding what's the best you can do with the setup you have for each task, you'll soon realise ennemies have reached the same conclusion, meaning you are most likely to run into similar setups.

so what you are telling me is, i have to adapt to get forced to play phoenix new task style? adapt to tasksituations the best to get rps? but thats exactly the point, its all about this taskshit...some guys are happy with zergaction, some people are not. im a fan of the daoc as it was,roaming, fighting other 8mans, pugs or zergs. if i would recording our last days of rvr, every 8man grp is just running away, waiting for at least 1 other 8man to fight us? i mean WHAT, then dont go out to rvr if you just prevent fighting.

yallia wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Sep 2018 10:55 PM
This is not going to kill anything. At rr5 which isn't high by any means you only get 1.8k per task, do you actually think people are going to cap ranks with just farming tasks lol ?

http://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Bastardo
just a link of a minstrel playing most of the time solo and joining task after task. 9L2 and you are telling me its not going to be fast? lol wut ? oh wait, minstrels OP.

http://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Tila
another example, SB 9L0, OP or just easy to get RPs and now u will tell me this guy did it solo with 2153 kills overall ? Maybe hes a Roboter, who knows.

yallia wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Sep 2018 10:55 PM
What would kill the game is people not having much play time being unable to do any kind of RvR because no life 8man teams that play non stop roll over them.

So i suggest to you, either change the game into a turn-based game system like league of legends or something else then..or try your best to participate, because thats the same whine u imagine i am doing here?

yallia wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Sep 2018 10:55 PM
The tasks allow everyone to get the minimum rr to at least be able to put up a fight in RvR. They also bring people out, creating a lot of action. I've had fun during tasks in solo, smallman, fg and as a part of the zerg.

The minimum RR to be able to put up a fight in RvR? The Server is starting from the get go, go out, everybody starts at RR1 and have to fight their way up to climp.

Waygone wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Sep 2018 10:55 PM
Hot tip for you buddy...
There's a server out there (starts U, and ends with gard) that doesn't have all these changes. Go check it out. Might be a little lonely though. That's ok though, sounds like actions not your thing.
Personally, I haven't seen RvR action like since the task system was implemented for a LONG time on ANY DAOC server.
Just my opinion

All these changes? tbh the only thing i´m not amused about is that stupid tasksystem. I love action in form of good fights, long fights, fair fights, sometimes even fights against bigger numbers, but at the moment u can run to your realm zerg and try to get rid of the next task. People have different opinions sure, but its nothing else at the moment then competing at tasks, that cant be the solution for DaoC "Classic based" Server?

phixion wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Sep 2018 11:15 PM
I am only 2 days in to RvRing here and I'm already RR4L1 and finding the task system rather repetitive.
I think tasks appear too often, it shouldn't be back to back tasking, but more sporadic.
people running in drabs to just suicide for the RPs...

thats another retarded thing about all that system, participate means, just get killed and ur gettin the participating rps for it ? WAT? RR4L1 in 2 days of playing? U mean ur playing some hours freetime to get there, because i dont think u played 48hours constant RvR to get there.

yallia wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Sep 2018 11:31 PM
People run and suicide only because they don't have enough people to actualy try to take the keep. Whenever there is enough people, they do try to go for the keep. Which makes for some fine action. For low rank people, suiciding is a sure way to get a few rps...

Are u even reading what kind of bulls*** ur talkin here? Suiciding should be rewarded? Dude come on...play another game.

yallia wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Sep 2018 11:31 PM
This is just meant to help people get to the rank you're at. If not for those, most people would be 3L, frontier zone would be pretty empty, and you would get rolled over by the few 6-8L groups that spend 12 to 15 hours a day farming.

So you are telling me, all this taskthings is just for people who try to catch up in RR because they cant do that in open RvR? Ok and what then? They are RR5 now, now its time to roam open and try to fight? People would do the same thing over and over until its boring, because if they are not fighting earlier, they wont fight even when they are RR7+.

Komaf wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Sep 2018 1:13 AM
...players have some access to RP gain without standing in the shadows as the leet 8 man's go by, is why I absolutely love this server.
No, we won't get to the elite status of realm rank by doing tasks - but hey, good news, while you're out there with your leet 8 man, you can farm us as we run to the next "pve" event in the frontiers.
Everyone wins, even us dirty casuals, since we get a sense of the game as well.

And you need tasks for that and free rp for suiciding? seems legit... everybody is complaining about casual play and rolled by 8mans. If just everybody is forming 8man and roaming, u would find other casual 8mans to fight and i´m telling you...the good 8man grps out there wont add your fights! what are the "casuals doing" if they see a 8vs8? they add the shit out of the fight and wondering about fair fights and gettin steamrolled the next time they see you. Respect each other fights and ur gettin respect your own.
+ almost one of the enemy players is in discord, u can ask them to let you pass, nobody who i know of the leet 8mans wont respect that fact.

relvinian wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Sep 2018 1:37 AM
When the system was put in it was stated that it would be evaluated for possible changes.
I paraphrase.
Is it good? Some good. Is it bad? Maybe some bad.
Does it need to be just exactly this way or go to uthgard?
NO. This is a beta, we need to be beta testing. Feedback should matter as well as observations from devs.

Anyone RR 9 or 10 yet?

Yes there are some RR9 allready, SOLO players, no 8man leet people. This is beta yes, i tested and i report a lot of things, but sometimes u have to speak about the bad things to help them and not only my group is thinking, that these tasks arent that good at the moment. Form a grp, go out and try to find other 8mans? its empty at the moment because people are gettin bored of these kind of rvr at the moment.

Ceen wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Sep 2018 7:37 AM
Befor tasks:
No action, people asking for cathal valley open since no action
After task: action for everyone

Does it have the same feeling as classic daoc? Not at all but I'm not looking for it on this server anyway.

2 things here:
#1 - it was tons of action before all the events started
#2 - does it have the same feeling as classic daoc? not at all -> nothing to add here
open google, type: daoc phoenix
Welcome to Phoenix - a Classic inspired DAoC Freeshard
WAT?

Druth wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Sep 2018 5:28 PM
What were the good old times?
I remember them as being a lot of people, and a lot of zerging/camping.

Did you play on Prydwen, did you play on any EU server 15years ago...sure there was zergs, but they were formed by "casusals" and they were raiding keeps, epic fights against other realms and it was good as it was. At the moment, its just task in emain, lets wipe and go emain, 10 mins later, take keep xyz, 10 mins later ... and this is going on the whole day 24/7. people are not doing anything else anymore and they gettin rewarded for doing this all day like nobody else.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
done with quoting...
what i read the most is people are happy to have a way to farm rps. having fun doing tasks the whole day and loving the "action" packed zergfights they get. but instead of suggest something whats good for both sides you only complain your side of view, everybody has to accept what you exactly want to have.
be open for other opinions instead of trashing this thread down with your comments. try to find a solution for everybody.

dont get me wrong, i loved the server so far, i was able to gather a group of livetime friends, old daoc mates(15 years of daoc) and some new guys and all are fired up for this server and competing in the open rvr, but since the tasksystem is released, we dont have any fun at all, because its not the type of rvr we are hoping for. we get forced to participate in tasks the whole time in our freetime, we dont have good fights and thats why we/im asking for some solution who makes everybody happy and not just the "casual" who you guys mention all the time.

thx for reading

Tue 11 Sep 2018 6:15 PM by Ceen

my old 8vs8 game is not working anymore bububu

No one is forbidding roaming Hadrians all day long for nice fights.
Its more like you are frustrated that people having only /stick on qbind are earning more RPs than you do ^^
At the moment there is tons of casuals and some 8vs8 guys. Thats what everyone wanted. A casual friendly server.
Its not like Uth1 or classic daoc but its more fun for the casuals than without tasks.
Running into a set grp with 8 /lfg guys might not be the best idea hence they look for a second grp. Thats not boring thats smart ^^

Tue 11 Sep 2018 6:22 PM by Pendalith

@ O.P. All i see is shit talking and crying because things aren't going a certain way. Wait till i50, wait till the server released and well after, before you say the server is kaput. Compared to uthgard and live this server is in a great place. Tasks, events, and the rp gain are encouraging large guild play and realm vrs realm. Feel awesome to be able to plug into guild grps and have some fun ! Server pop going to be huge and grow over time but you gota nurture it ^^

Tue 11 Sep 2018 6:42 PM by Lewk

The task system has been awesome.

The attack defend tasks could benefit perhaps from a slight tweak though: Increase the participation to the zone the keep is located. That way people can roam/etc and still have the incentive for bonus RPs for a successful take/defense, as opposed to feeling obligated to get a kill/death right up next to the keep.

Eg. as an attacking stealther you could camp the route for reinforcements, instead of having to try for a kill up against the keep (suicide), or feeling like you need to suicide at the keep to secure participation, and then you can roam / cover supply routes.

eg. Defending 8 mans could roam the zone and not feel obligated to stand at the keep waiting for someone to come close enough to kill for credit.

I think what some people are failing to realize is that the tasks have people coming to the RvR zones and feeling like they are doing something worthwhile with their time there. It literally takes 7-10 minutes to run from a portal keep to emain if you are hib. That is just to GET there. Add in a quick death to a group when solo, etc and suddenly your desire to continue running back out wanes very quickly. This has been the cycle of DAoC that the successful players snowball and have fun with the game, and the casuals feel weaker and weaker as the RR gap increases, and their time/fun ratio gets to the point that it is no longer worth playing.

The tasks aren't perfect, but they really help address some major issues, and really provide a baseline for creating action.

Tue 11 Sep 2018 7:06 PM by Druth

Dis wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Sep 2018 5:51 PM
Lots...

thx for reading

It's not that I don't agree with you that:
- The rps could be lowered.
- RR5+ should hardly get any rps from tasks.
- The keep tasks needs severe improvements.

But this is much much better than the action that was before they came, and especially it was very toxic for casuals, for which getting rps was way to hard.

Tue 11 Sep 2018 7:34 PM by Armsmancer

If you want more people to go out and rvr then you have to incentivize it. Whether it is a good incentive or not depends on the observer and will always be subjective. The stealthers at the pks and mileforts aren't going to be whining that there's actually smallmans or solos trying to get to the keep in time. But some 8v8er or zerger will be like "oh don't reward that behavior." Someone above said not to reward suiciding. This is a straw man, you are rewarding someone getting away from the crafting table and into the pvp game. Sometimes it means he gets there and dies because only guards there and its 12am NA time and theres 30 ppl on. Sometimes a stealther squad ganks him or he gets run down like a dog by a big group. Either way he's not going to go out and risk that if you don't incentivize it obviously, i mean, think here.

Zoom out and look at the big picture. This puts more checks in the boxes which mainly is having enough constant action to support players in each time zone. What you will get is an imperfect system to please everyone out there. There is simply no solution to please solo/smallman/8v8/zerg/casual/hardcore all at once for this issue. So take the one that gets people out into rvr.

This is unprecedented because normally the 8v8 or zergers benefit and this time they don't so they are the majority of the complainers, this is all about benefit. It does not benefit <type> of player and that <type> will be against it. In the end its all selfish about wanting to get ahead faster than your peers and over your enemies. Say it like it is.

There is no solution, only a trade off, and the one that keeps a server populated is what matters, all other concerns are secondary. Every decision to making large changes will always ask "at what cost?" and sorry, if your choice for task settings reduces the game pop or rvr action as a whole then it won't happen on a server with pop and rvr action as its goal instead of pleasing your <type> of player you are.

You can adjust some of the margins here or there on rp rewards, when to start them up, etc, but the task system is overwhelmingly popular and hardly a big deal when put into context. My RR3 spends 10-30min getting 3k-5k rps , which takes a minstrel or stealther how long to get that? How about a good 8v8 group? Face it you just don't want casuals to get a measly amount of RPs, oh boy RR3 everyone watch out badass RR3's gonna upend the game balance!

Tue 11 Sep 2018 7:36 PM by relvinian

Keep in mind that the population on live will be MUCH higher and RPs will be FASTER than now.

It's going to pain me but why don't we agree that, as intended, the system will need some tweaks.

So what tweaks does it need?

Brainstorming here:

1. Below a certain level you get nothing for a task-- I would say 35. When you're green to 50 you can do tasks.
2. BGs is where you get your rps below 35 or killing people in frontier.
3. Above a certain Realm Rank, you get nothing in a task-- Gonna say 5L0

BGs get you to 35 and RR3. BGs need some fun incentives. Maybe like a mob that drops some ok gear for the level.
Tasks get you to 50 and RR5

Then you are on your own.

Tue 11 Sep 2018 7:46 PM by Armsmancer

relvinian wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Sep 2018 7:36 PM
Keep in mind that the population on live will be MUCH higher and RPs will be FASTER than now.

It's going to pain me but why don't we agree that, as intended, the system will need some tweaks.

So what tweaks does it need?

Brainstorming here:

1. Below a certain level you get nothing for a task-- I would say 35. When you're green to 50 you can do tasks.
2. BGs is where you get your rps below 35 or killing people in frontier.
3. Above a certain Realm Rank, you get nothing in a task-- Gonna say 5L0

BGs get you to 35 and RR3. BGs need some fun incentives. Maybe like a mob that drops some ok gear for the level.
Tasks get you to 50 and RR5

Then you are on your own.

To reply to the brainstorms

1. Nerf it some a bit but there should be something for the attempt.
2. Unless things change I think BG twinks are not gonna be a thing here, everyone will likely just killtask and get to 50. With rvr dynamic tasking I simply don't see large groups of people in each realm locking a character at 24 or 35 for pointless (besides the fun of playing but not furthering your character) bg "action". The events will get them but not like Thidranki gonna be shifting tons of times on our screens of owners after the initial rush.
3. The task system gives like 1krps after rr5 hardly worth mentioning and you lose the incentive to get people into the same zone by removing even that. Plus the bounty points from it a lot farm for the skins.

Simply put, I have not seen a better system for getting each realm concerned about going to the same sub map for action before and that is with the way it is now. I farmed on a minstrel just going from keep to keep etc for about a week, for hours each night, and barely just got rr4. It keeps dropping off so the rewards are going down, don't think there's RR9's and 10s from this. The first few to RR3 or 4 are good coupled with RPs, but the big boost these high RR minstrels have is actually from all the solo kills and the bonus you get for being solo. 500-1500 RPs is nothing when you killed a bunch of ppl solo during the task for 3-5k rps each, that is the big booster.

Tue 11 Sep 2018 7:48 PM by chryso

Dis posted:

Dude come on...play another game.

I see a lot of people who like what is going on here and you who do not like what is going on here.
Perhaps all of these people who like it are not the ones who should play another game.

Tue 11 Sep 2018 7:54 PM by ChewyLewis

I for one think it is silly seeing 20-30 kill spam from portal keep guards every 10-15 min due to people chasing tasks.

I like the Portal Keep Zone one, that gives every realm 2 portable options, or to run to a third option (home land)

I think the tasks should eliminate the Specific Keep Option, OR make the specific Keep doable once per day.

You can keep the generic tasks such as Kill guards / players. Maybe make 1 Attack and 1 Defense task doable in 24 hour period, but do not make it specific. This would encourage the importance of claiming keeps and /region communication to say what keeps are under siege.

Again, I think seeing 20-30 death spam PER realm from guards, means the current system needs adjusting. On the flip side, roaming Hadriens for 15 min and not seeing 1 person from either other realm or your own realm, due to the fact the task attacking a keep in another realm, should not happen.

My suggestion is putting a cap on the Attack / Defend tasks to once 24 hour period. Could maybe add tasks such as kill 15 enemies in Home land / Kill 15 in Hib / Mid land. This should get more balanced action across the Warmap, and should stop the mindlessness or running task to task, suicide to do so if it is a faster option.

My 2 cents.

Thank you

Tue 11 Sep 2018 8:09 PM by Armsmancer

ChewyLewis wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Sep 2018 7:54 PM
I for one think it is silly seeing 20-30 kill spam from portal keep guards every 10-15 min due to people chasing tasks.

I like the Portal Keep Zone one, that gives every realm 2 portable options, or to run to a third option (home land)

I think the tasks should eliminate the Specific Keep Option, OR make the specific Keep doable once per day.

You can keep the generic tasks such as Kill guards / players. Maybe make 1 Attack and 1 Defense task doable in 24 hour period, but do not make it specific. This would encourage the importance of claiming keeps and /region communication to say what keeps are under siege.

Again, I think seeing 20-30 death spam PER realm from guards, means the current system needs adjusting. On the flip side, roaming Hadriens for 15 min and not seeing 1 person from either other realm or your own realm, due to the fact the task attacking a keep in another realm, should not happen.

My suggestion is putting a cap on the Attack / Defend tasks to once 24 hour period. Could maybe add tasks such as kill 15 enemies in Home land / Kill 15 in Hib / Mid land. This should get more balanced action across the Warmap, and should stop the mindlessness or running task to task, suicide to do so if it is a faster option.

My 2 cents.

Thank you

Seeing suicide spam is nothing new in daoc is this like the first time you saw that many die because its the quickest way to another realm? People on genesis would hop to their deaths after a keep take because it didn't cost con. Once 1-2fgs got intel of another 1-3fg in another realm they quickly found the fastest way to die to get to them, so the argument against "killspam is ridiculous" is not introduced by this server or mechanic.

As far as roaming Hadriens for 15min and not seeing another person is not even worth bringing up. Hey i just roamed dodens for 30 min and didn't see one person! SHOULDN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE REASONS! Just no logic attached here. People go to emain usually as there's tons less dumb aggro vs getting to hadriens without a horse headbutting you because you didn't see it in the 512kb trees and lose speed again, emain is flat mostly so obvious to go there.

The first priority is about getting players into rvr or at least a healthy population. Concerns about how you feel when you see killspam doesn't matter - nobody cares if you're sitting there pleased you aren't seeing it but at the cost of enough constant action to keep players around. Concern 1 is players and action, way, way, way down the list is how you feel about killspam or where you think you should be engaged in pvp vs. where people are actually pvp'ing.

So much of this is self evident its hurts my brain to constantly say things like if you see 2fg in <zone> doing <activity> it is because they chose to do so because it is fun/benefits them/etc. I saw a guy saying yesterday "i don't understand why people do X" which i forget what, but that is not a failure of the server design, it is a failure of your imagination and understanding that if you walk up and see like 50 people doing something, they are compelled to do it and want to be doing it. If you don't understand it that is on you, not them. Please stop with all these feels before reals and realize this task system is successful the way it is, nothing you suggested or came up with got people out in droves to rvr, the task system is.

Tue 11 Sep 2018 8:15 PM by Dis

chryso wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Sep 2018 7:48 PM
Dis posted:
Dude come on...play another game.

I see a lot of people who like what is going on here and you who do not like what is going on here.
Perhaps all of these people who like it are not the ones who should play another game.

if you quote me, quote the whole thing...people who think "suiciding should be rewarded with rps" are just stupid for me sorry.
and get me right, i dont care if somebody is reaching rr10 faster then me, for me its about having fun and thats no fun.

its not just black and white point of view, it should be something whos everybody daccord with. the hardcore 8vs8 pool of players and the casual zergfest.

Tue 11 Sep 2018 8:41 PM by defiasbandit

There needs to be more task types. Running to a keep and back to emain nonstop all day is repetitive. It is good that players get participation RP. There is not really a way to make it something other than being present in the zone to receive credit.

Some of the tasks should last longer than 30 minutes. There should be more zone tasks than keep tasks. The keep tasks rarely result in keep takes or fights.

RP gain overall needs to be lowered. One day of the week there could be an RvR campaign, where all the rp from the tasks is added, and the realm with the most rp is declared victor.

Tue 11 Sep 2018 9:21 PM by Armsmancer

Already mentioned it before but "people who think "suiciding should be rewarded with rps" are just stupid for me sorry." is not anyone's argument, it is your straw man of their argument.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man."

If you think I'm not being fair, please quote us where someone here put forth that as an argument. Otherwise adjust your point of contention or you're still stuck in the status of straw manning someone. Basic logics yo

Tue 11 Sep 2018 9:56 PM by relvinian

What if the specific keep mission was take a keep or defend a keep. Not Hurbury but Take A KEEP.

And all of it went into one big pool. Task ends when the first keep is taken.

At the end anyone attacking or defending, got their share of the pool.

Tue 11 Sep 2018 10:25 PM by yallia

@Dis

Not going to enter the quote war you tried to start. You're ignoring the points I make so that it suits your reasoning, which is kinda sad.

Again, no one is forcing you to play the tasks. It's merely a way to put player in a same area. You said you like old daoc, roaming and fighting against small, 8's and zergs, well you can do just that here.

It's funny how you linked Bastardo and Tila's RR, trying to prove a point, when 95% of their rps come from solo kills. I mean do you even play the game ? What RR are you ? 3L6 ?

You ask if I played daoc 15 years ago, well yes I did, played from CBT to couple months into NF.

I sincerely hope you're not trying to base your argument on a comparaison between servs that were at full capacity and this one that has like +/- 300 players all level considered at peak hours. Cause you know, that'd be kinda dumb.

Huge difference in population means the RvR you used to know will never come back. It's been what ? 17 or so years ? Maybe it's time to accept at least that much, or else there won't be much of a discussion to have.

Once you acknowledge that, next step will be harder to understand : average player age and playtime. And yes, yet again, it has changed a lot compared to the stats of the good ol' daoc from back in the days. I hope you're ready for that too lol.

Tue 11 Sep 2018 10:36 PM by Armsmancer

The title here is just an unjustified presupposition as well. For once there is constant action and people asking for groups from all kinds of duo to get task items to feather groups to raids in pve to small man / 8v8 / zerg. Which of these things that I see constant action on every night I log in is "killing the server" exactly?. We have broadly different definitions of the words you use. The server cannot be dead/dying and all this stuff going on every night of the week, they are mutually exclusive.

Are you saying the numbers are going down? Please post the stats. Then post your data that is CAUSAL to the things you assume, yet pass off as fact, is the reason they are happening.

This is just another whine post, stated as fact but is just another fiat like the potion debate, and its a cricket-infested wasteland of missing posts about anything actually JUSTIFYING what they are saying, its just "x kills the class, pls fix" without anything more.

The server is livelier than ever, you must be playing a different game. Go into a city or portal keep and count on your hand the seconds that go by when you don't see anyone doing anything like running around and porting off for action or heading out to frontier xp, don't worry you won't need more fingers. You would have to log in at some non peak times to see that, which is normal and assumed into the server obviously. Go and fraps record this for us all about how "dead the server is"

You wont because

you can't

nothing to see here people just more sandwichboard doomsayers that should be selling pencils from a cup

they have no understanding that these systems are the reason this action is even happening now, and why a beta server with promises to wipe still have consistent numbers logging in each night to enjoy the experience

but ignore all that, nothing to see there, the server is dying ya'll!!! unless you cater to my game preferences!!! reeeeeeeeee

Wed 12 Sep 2018 8:46 AM by l00ri

Dis wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Sep 2018 5:51 PM
http://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Tila
another example, SB 9L0, OP or just easy to get RPs and now u will tell me this guy did it solo with 2153 kills overall ? Maybe hes a Roboter, who knows.

This is my character. I don't know where you got your numbers from but as you can see in the herald i am around 1200 Kills, about 1000 of them are Solokills. So as we all know Midgard is most of the time the realm with the highest underpop-Bonus so I get a lot of RPs extra and as you can see also in the herald most of the time I don't have a lot of Task-RPs compared to the other LWRP-Leaders.
These could be higher but I am not running for Keeps, im just Soloing in Emain or HW and get the Kill-Zone reward almost every time because I got some kills from time to time.

Last week I made around 1.3 million RPs (with a around 4 to 5 hours per day and almost the whole weekend) and only 13% are coming from tasks. Since then the Task-Reward-RPs and the Solokill RPs got nerfed a lot (Task RPS from 3-5K to 1K; Solokills from 2k to 1.4k) and I expect them to be way less this week. I earned about 20k RPs this week from tasks in 3 Days.

Furthermore I had two whole weekends with the Cathal Valley Event where I made a LOT of RPs and about 5 days full of PvP-Event Nonstop-Action.

Just wait until everything is balanced properly, its just a beta and I expect the RPs do dwindle down every week from now on.

(These are numbers from the time on the Kills got recorded, the first few weeks they were not even recorded, so I have a lot more kills than the Herald displays, its not that you make 1000 Kills and you have a realm rank of 9, these were 9 Weeks with a lot of nerding and a lot of RPs for Solokills, which I do mostly.)

Wed 12 Sep 2018 9:10 AM by Ceen

Just stop it @Dis
Maybe you are the roboter (troll)?

Wed 12 Sep 2018 11:53 AM by keen

Tasks are working. I see tons of casuals roaming around. I don't see why someone would argue those tasks are bad for the server.
They can be tweak for sure, but the overall concept of like 30-40% of rps are made by tasks is just how you get everyone joining the skirmish.
Before tasks were introduced just a small fraction of players had a goal to do rvr for. Now everyone is included and it works.

Wed 12 Sep 2018 1:28 PM by ChewyLewis

@Armsmancer Nothing I said in my message was condescending or attacking anyone. You are a rude, self centered, egotistical person, and none of your posts are doing any good in this forum.

Wed 12 Sep 2018 1:47 PM by Galahad

Thanks, first of all, for sharing your opinions on the task system. It is obviously a work-in-progress as far as some of the minor details are concerned. We are also evaluating additional "tasks" to break up any monotony that may arise from doing the same stuff over and over. In any case, it is important to keep in mind that the reality of this system and its effect on the server will really only be judged once we open i50 and later launch the server. We reserve the right to make adjustments at any given time should things go in a direction we didn't intend to.

That said, tasks currently are doing exactly what we wanted - which is to create tons of action in RvR. Right now we have RvR participation (level 50 toons) of up to 90% or more. If we are being honest, this is very much what RvR (mostly) looked like during classic times. So do not expect any "major" revisions" on the general concept.

I think we have been very open during both the alpha and beta that a lot of things that we do to "evolve" the game is to make it more accessible for the "casual" gamers. That does not mean that we want everyone to be rr10 within a month of playing, but certain - let's call them "very dedicated" players - will hit the ceiling more quickly than they would elsewhere (depending on how you define the ceiling - since rr13 will still take ages).

Thu 13 Sep 2018 2:57 PM by relvinian

Galahad wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Sep 2018 1:47 PM
Thanks, first of all, for sharing your opinions on the task system. It is obviously a work-in-progress as far as some of the minor details are concerned. We are also evaluating additional "tasks" to break up any monotony that may arise from doing the same stuff over and over. In any case, it is important to keep in mind that the reality of this system and its effect on the server will really only be judged once we open i50 and later launch the server. We reserve the right to make adjustments at any given time should things go in a direction we didn't intend to.

That said, tasks currently are doing exactly what we wanted - which is to create tons of action in RvR. Right now we have RvR participation (level 50 toons) of up to 90% or more. If we are being honest, this is very much what RvR (mostly) looked like during classic times. So do not expect any "major" revisions" on the general concept.

I think we have been very open during both the alpha and beta that a lot of things that we do to "evolve" the game is to make it more accessible for the "casual" gamers. That does not mean that we want everyone to be rr10 within a month of playing, but certain - let's call them "very dedicated" players - will hit the ceiling more quickly than they would elsewhere (depending on how you define the ceiling - since rr13 will still take ages).

1. I50 needs to come soon please. Also with at least rr5 or so. I am currently leveling like my 5th toon to 50-- just to test the damn thing. Then I need to run out and rvr and test the ra system there.
2. You only get one chance to make a roll out on live version. You want to get that roll out right.
3. You only get one chance on a server to make and keep population.
4. But beta is test phase and that is the phase where you break it, fix it, tweak it, mess with it, etc.
5. Listen to your players.
6. The goal for some may be realm rank 13 but the goal for others might be RR 6. Sometimes people achieve their goals and quit playing. People like easy but they don't like too easy.
7. NPC buffs would be nice. Maybe lower than pots, but something.

Thu 13 Sep 2018 4:44 PM by Kralin

Relv, you sound like a broken record. Why are you trying to rush the i50 phase? Just because you are bored doesn't mean the staff has to make a hasty decision. I trust the staff knows what they are doing with the timing of releasing the server. The more you ask to speed things up isn't helping. I seriously doubt we're losing an opportunity by not having i50 for a couple more weeks.

We get your points so please stop dominating the forums with your blabber just like a stay-at-home parent with 50,000 posts on the VN boards.

Thu 13 Sep 2018 5:35 PM by relvinian

Kralin wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Sep 2018 4:44 PM
Relv, you sound like a broken record. Why are you trying to rush the i50 phase? Just because you are bored doesn't mean the staff has to make a hasty decision. I trust the staff knows what they are doing with the timing of releasing the server. The more you ask to speed things up isn't helping. I seriously doubt we're losing an opportunity by not having i50 for a couple more weeks.

We get your points so please stop dominating the forums with your blabber just like a stay-at-home parent with 50,000 posts on the VN boards.

Add me as foe, you will never see another one of my posts again.

Thu 13 Sep 2018 7:28 PM by Armsmancer

ChewyLewis wrote: ↑
Wed 12 Sep 2018 1:28 PM
@Armsmancer Nothing I said in my message was condescending or attacking anyone. You are a rude, self centered, egotistical person, and none of your posts are doing any good in this forum.

You can attempt to tone police me but riddle me this, if you hear a crazy ridiculous point is there any other way to point out its absurdity? Do you think there's some calm, detailed response some flat earther is going to listen to, no , people point out the glaring flaws, and the flat earther will call you a rude, self centered, egotistical person because you are attacking their argument which they take personally.

Bad arguments deserve to be exposed and the person who sees it exposed is gonna think the messenger is a dick. I'm not your momma and gonna sprinkle a correction with how you're still a good boy for trying, I'm going to be objective and say no, the moon isn't made of cheese, or that you don't just get to say something out loud and everyone has to agree with it, you have to back it up with facts. Did someone back it up with facts ? Or did they go the losing route of whining about the serious tone used, and the satirical takedown of flawed arguments? Which does your quote above do? Yeah, thought so. Oh no don't be rude and point out my lack of substantive responses!! Mommy! Stop the bad man from exposing my complete lack of evidence for my points!

I could reword this 100 different ways and you still wouldn't respond with evidence so what does it matter how its worded. Buck up or shut up.

Thu 13 Sep 2018 10:19 PM by Kralin

relvinian wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Sep 2018 5:35 PM
Kralin wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Sep 2018 4:44 PM
Relv, you sound like a broken record. Why are you trying to rush the i50 phase? Just because you are bored doesn't mean the staff has to make a hasty decision. I trust the staff knows what they are doing with the timing of releasing the server. The more you ask to speed things up isn't helping. I seriously doubt we're losing an opportunity by not having i50 for a couple more weeks.

We get your points so please stop dominating the forums with your blabber just like a stay-at-home parent with 50,000 posts on the VN boards.

Add me as foe, you will never see another one of my posts again.

If I become ignorant, it won't stop you from constantly repeating the same things for other people. Besides you have made productive points and I like what you say some of the time. I'm just highlighting that you tend to drill the same thing over and over...and you probably have the highest post count of anyone on the forums. I believe in quality over quantity.

Fri 14 Sep 2018 12:37 AM by relvinian

If you look at my quote it explains me a bit.

I just speak my mind.

Norm Mcdnonald, one of my fav ever comedians, recently had to apologize and then he apologized for apologizing.

To hell with that. speak your mind. don't use racist terms, and don't insult people, or make fun of disabled (like Democrats), and say what you want.

That is how I live my life.

Fri 14 Sep 2018 12:51 AM by Armsmancer

Truly remarkable.

Back on topic : still waiting on any evidence or data anybody here could produce to show that any of the things in the title here are "killing" the server.

Fri 14 Sep 2018 1:17 PM by birrone001

I totally agree that RvR tasks are killing the game, often it is just rps farming just doing nothing but being there at the right time, I like Personal RvR tasks but not the Realm ones.
Looks like a rps farming that I really hate. I don't like too easy things!

Fri 14 Sep 2018 1:39 PM by chryso

If you don't like the RVR tasks then don't do them. I think they are fantastic and a real benefit when I don't have much time to play.