Underdog classes/specs - Phoenix Freeshard

I've been super happy to see a Battle Bard and a Nature Druid repeatedly in the PvP zone the last days.

Unfortunately both are so weak, they could use some love, that doesn't touch 8v8.

Nature Druid suffers from HP buff, so i suggest just doubeling his dot delve, that won't affect 8v8 and make solo natty viable again vs some classes.

For Battlebard i suggest giving Bard the 2nd dd - Bard has been struggling super hard anyway since the amnesia nerf, so this small 8v8 buff puts him closer to what minst can do at close range.
Another way would be to upp his dmg table.
And Ameliorating Meldodies needs to affect the one who uses it.

Ofc there is more classes that can rightfully ask for similar small buffs.

Wed 8 Jul 2020 11:33 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Jul 2020 11:27 PM
And Ameliorating Meldodies needs to affect the one who uses it.

So you're fine with Minstrels and Skalds having the best HoT in the game on top of IP?

Thu 9 Jul 2020 5:54 AM by Sepplord

You open up with the statement about buffs that don't touch 8vs8 and immediatly suggest a buff that impacts 8vs8 and claim it is just "slight buff", followed by suggesting that AM should affect the caster too

That escalated quickly, from reason to insanity in just a few sentences

Thu 9 Jul 2020 6:15 AM by Astaa

Not participated in 8v8 for many years....but I don't remember dots being used anywhere in 8v8...

Thu 9 Jul 2020 6:52 AM by gotwqqd

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Jul 2020 5:54 AM
You open up with the statement about buffs that don't touch 8vs8 and immediatly suggest a buff that impacts 8vs8 and claim it is just "slight buff", followed by suggesting that AM should affect the caster too

That escalated quickly, from reason to insanity in just a few sentences

Don’t forget asking for a double of the dot....making it the best of any class by a monumental amount

Thu 9 Jul 2020 7:08 AM by Cadebrennus

I'm all for underutilized classes/specs but the Devs have said that they want certain classes to play certain specs, and that they will keep certain spec lines weak to force players into certain specs.

Thu 9 Jul 2020 4:18 PM by Bradekes

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Jul 2020 7:08 AM
I'm all for underutilized classes/specs but the Devs have said that they want certain classes to play certain specs, and that they will keep certain spec lines weak to force players into certain specs.

To me it just seems they only have done QoL to classes they enjoy playing in general. I guess it's hard for them to relate to playing other classes and how being forced playing one spec is a real bore/disappointing when the classes have been playable in other ways after 1.65.

Thu 9 Jul 2020 6:37 PM by Nephamael

So you're fine with Minstrels and Skalds having the best HoT in the game on top of IP?

Fom a 8v8 perspective that doesn't have any negative impact and i wouldnt consider a non-kiting minstrel extremely op anymore, after the adjustments for 1v1.
Neither a Skald.

Remember, they have to actually put a lot of points into AM to make it valuable.

Also giving it only to Bard as affecting the caster would be unfair.

Thu 9 Jul 2020 6:40 PM by Nephamael

You open up with the statement about buffs that don't touch 8vs8 and immediatly suggest a buff that impacts 8vs8 and claim it is just "slight buff", followed by suggesting that AM should affect the caster too

Well i agree, giving 2nd dd to Bard would affect 8v8 a tinly little bit, but exclusively for 1 lineup in hib = tanker, as Bard can't reach enemy backline with his dds in a hib castergrp positioning (he often can't even reach enemy backline with his new amnesia range there, without fail positioning himself).
Also keep in mind, while Bard is the weakest of the 3 cc classes in 8v8 he has been crippled for 8v smallman balancing reasons.

Upping Bards melee dmg table wouldn't affect 8v8 at all.

Thu 9 Jul 2020 7:49 PM by Enyore

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Jul 2020 11:27 PM
I've been super happy to see a Battle Bard and a Nature Druid repeatedly in the PvP zone the last days.

Unfortunately both are so weak, they could use some love, that doesn't touch 8v8.

Nature Druid suffers from HP buff, so i suggest just doubeling his dot delve, that won't affect 8v8 and make solo natty viable again vs some classes.

For Battlebard i suggest giving Bard the 2nd dd - Bard has been struggling super hard anyway since the amnesia nerf, so this small 8v8 buff puts him closer to what minst can do at close range.
Another way would be to upp his dmg table.
And Ameliorating Meldodies needs to affect the one who uses it.

Ofc there is more classes that can rightfully ask for similar small buffs.

Battle bards and Nature druids just wasn't meant to be......

Thu 9 Jul 2020 8:14 PM by Cadebrennus

Enyore wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Jul 2020 7:49 PM
Nephamael wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Jul 2020 11:27 PM
I've been super happy to see a Battle Bard and a Nature Druid repeatedly in the PvP zone the last days.

Unfortunately both are so weak, they could use some love, that doesn't touch 8v8.

Nature Druid suffers from HP buff, so i suggest just doubeling his dot delve, that won't affect 8v8 and make solo natty viable again vs some classes.

For Battlebard i suggest giving Bard the 2nd dd - Bard has been struggling super hard anyway since the amnesia nerf, so this small 8v8 buff puts him closer to what minst can do at close range.
Another way would be to upp his dmg table.
And Ameliorating Meldodies needs to affect the one who uses it.

Ofc there is more classes that can rightfully ask for similar small buffs.

Battle bards and Nature druids just wasn't meant to be......

I disagree. I ran with one a couple of times as a duo on Live and it was a blast. Of course OP TOA stuff helped, but it showed the possibilities.

Thu 9 Jul 2020 8:43 PM by Lollie

Not sure about doubling the druids dot delve, there are RA's to boost it's damage but I cant see any reason why their pet shouldn't be blue con along with other castable pets, especially since they have to actually spec for it.

Fri 10 Jul 2020 10:22 AM by inoeth

cant play my 50 thrown weapons warrior, plz fix!

Fri 10 Jul 2020 11:59 AM by Cadebrennus

inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Jul 2020 10:22 AM
cant play my 50 thrown weapons warrior, plz fix!

Is it possible for you to post anywhere in this forum WITHOUT you being a troll? Seriously.

Fri 10 Jul 2020 5:33 PM by Bradekes

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Jul 2020 11:59 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Jul 2020 10:22 AM
cant play my 50 thrown weapons warrior, plz fix!

Is it possible for you to post anywhere in this forum WITHOUT you being a troll? Seriously.

I heard in WoW you can be both a troll and a hunter instead of having to play as a troll on the forums and hunter in game.. you can also use thrown weapons with a bonus from troll racial.

Though I do miss my throwing weapon bird dude from Shadowbane

Fri 10 Jul 2020 8:01 PM by Cadebrennus

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Jul 2020 5:33 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Jul 2020 11:59 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Jul 2020 10:22 AM
cant play my 50 thrown weapons warrior, plz fix!

Is it possible for you to post anywhere in this forum WITHOUT you being a troll? Seriously.

I heard in WoW you can be both a troll and a hunter instead of having to play as a troll on the forums and hunter in game.. you can also use thrown weapons with a bonus from troll racial.

Though I do miss my throwing weapon bird dude from Shadowbane

For as much criticism that I and others have for that game, they really got an Archer archetype right. I loved the ability to view stuff from far away in that class. It's been so long I can't remember what it's called though.

Fri 10 Jul 2020 9:40 PM by Bradekes

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Jul 2020 8:01 PM
For as much criticism that I and others have for that game, they really got an Archer archetype right. I loved the ability to view stuff from far away in that class. It's been so long I can't remember what it's called though.

It's a hunter which is why I made that joke lol.

Fri 10 Jul 2020 9:50 PM by Cadebrennus

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Jul 2020 9:40 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Jul 2020 8:01 PM
For as much criticism that I and others have for that game, they really got an Archer archetype right. I loved the ability to view stuff from far away in that class. It's been so long I can't remember what it's called though.

It's a hunter which is why I made that joke lol.

I know, I got it =)

However, I will always give credit where credit is due, and they got it right

Sat 11 Jul 2020 4:36 AM by Nephamael

Not sure about doubling the druids dot delve

it's a non stackable dot, doing 80 dmg per tick with a few RAs non crit, an offtank pot buffed already has over 2k health ^^, i think doubling that dmg would do noone any harm

Sat 11 Jul 2020 5:28 PM by jhaerik

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Sat 11 Jul 2020 4:36 AM
Not sure about doubling the druids dot delve

it's a non stackable dot, doing 80 dmg per tick with a few RAs non crit, an offtank pot buffed already has over 2k health ^^, i think doubling that dmg would do noone any harm

Around 2.4-2.6k at that.

Sat 11 Jul 2020 5:50 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Sat 11 Jul 2020 4:36 AM
it's a non stackable dot, doing 80 dmg per tick with a few RAs non crit, an offtank pot buffed already has over 2k health ^^, i think doubling that dmg would do noone any harm

If it won't make a difference, why do you want it increased?

Sat 11 Jul 2020 9:16 PM by Bradekes

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Sat 11 Jul 2020 5:50 PM
Nephamael wrote: ↑
Sat 11 Jul 2020 4:36 AM
it's a non stackable dot, doing 80 dmg per tick with a few RAs non crit, an offtank pot buffed already has over 2k health ^^, i think doubling that dmg would do noone any harm

If it won't make a difference, why do you want it increased?

His logic would be the same as anyone's who actually thinks about it. Full nature druid isn't going to be a part of most 8mans. And if for some reason one is, a dot that deals double damage would not make a difference if the nature druid is taking the place of a real dps as even a double damage single dot isn't really high dps.

However in a small man or 1 vs 1 it would make the druid closer to a real threat and make nature not suck seeings the only other damage a druid would be dealing is from a grey pet and non-spec melee w/dmg add. I'm not sure it's the right way to fix the nature spec but it does make sense if you take the time to think.

Sun 12 Jul 2020 12:35 AM by ExcretusMaximus

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Sat 11 Jul 2020 9:16 PM
it does make sense if you take the time to think.

No, if "you take the time to think" it doesn't.

Wanting it changed makes sense using your logic, but his logic is that it doesn't matter if it's increased, but he still wants it increased. You can't say something will make no difference if changed and then say it must be changed. Change introduces difference.

If you take the time to think.

Sun 12 Jul 2020 2:52 AM by Nephamael

His logic would be the same as anyone's who actually thinks about it. Full nature druid isn't going to be a part of most 8mans. And if for some reason one is, a dot that deals double damage would not make a difference if the nature druid is taking the place of a real dps as even a double damage single dot isn't really high dps.

However in a small man or 1 vs 1 it would make the druid closer to a real threat and make nature not suck seeings the only other damage a druid would be dealing is from a grey pet and non-spec melee w/dmg add. I'm not sure it's the right way to fix the nature spec but it does make sense if you take the time to think.

exactly

standard nature druid spec for 8v8 is 40 regrowth 36 nature, so the dot would be lvl35, 63 value and making the target mezz/root immune for 24 seconds - that is a big commitment in 8v8 most grps wont make, so druid will stick to heal/root and not deal any dmg just like now.

For 1v1 it will make a nature druid barely viable for some matchups, so here it does make a difference

For smallman multiple natty specs might be actually a very fun thing to play.