Remove damage add from growth rate on Garrote

Assassins are OP on this server. CRAZY OP at low level but even at high levels.

I don't want an across-the-board nerf - but, Garrote is being spam'd now because it is THAT GOOD.
I mean you get a 60% snare on a 0.74 growth rate attack.
Force assasins to choose between 60% snare or high damage.
Giving them both for a lvl 18 style is too much.

They still have a high growth rate (1.03) on the followup so this is not a huge nerf to lvl 50 peeps.
This affects low level BGs more but that is the balance that is needed.

Thu 18 Jun 2020 9:41 PM by WildWilbur

Lol, just lol...

Thu 18 Jun 2020 9:47 PM by Norhir

Just drink more water, friendo.

Fri 19 Jun 2020 12:10 AM by Bradekes

Fribrand wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 9:35 PM
Assassins are OP on this server. CRAZY OP at low level but even at high levels.

I don't want an across-the-board nerf - but, Garrote is being spam'd now because it is THAT GOOD.
I mean you get a 60% snare on a 0.74 growth rate attack.
Force assasins to choose between 60% snare or high damage.
Giving them both for a lvl 18 style is too much.

They still have a high growth rate (1.03) on the followup so this is not a huge nerf to lvl 50 peeps.
This affects low level BGs more but that is the balance that is needed.

Stealthers are on the lowest damage table. Which is 18 for your info. Just for reference a tank is on 23. So a stralther attacking with even a 1.03 growth rate is going to do similar damage to a light tank using a taunt style .59 growthrate

If you take 180×2.03 and 230×1.59 you actually get 365 which proves my point

Fri 19 Jun 2020 12:13 AM by ExcretusMaximus

Fribrand wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 9:35 PM
Assassins are OP on this server.

I solo'd a RR3 Inf who got the jump on me on a 42 Mend / 33 Aug Healer last night.

I think that's all the refutation of your point that is needed.

Fri 19 Jun 2020 12:50 AM by gromet12

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 12:10 AM
Fribrand wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 9:35 PM
Assassins are OP on this server. CRAZY OP at low level but even at high levels.

I don't want an across-the-board nerf - but, Garrote is being spam'd now because it is THAT GOOD.
I mean you get a 60% snare on a 0.74 growth rate attack.
Force assasins to choose between 60% snare or high damage.
Giving them both for a lvl 18 style is too much.

They still have a high growth rate (1.03) on the followup so this is not a huge nerf to lvl 50 peeps.
This affects low level BGs more but that is the balance that is needed.

Stealthers are on the lowest damage table. Which is 18 for your info. Just for reference a tank is on 23. So a stralther attacking with even a 1.03 growth rate is going to do similar damage to a light tank using a taunt style .59 growthrate

If you take 180×2.03 and 230×1.59 you actually get 365 which proves my point

They are not on the lowest DMG factor and "tanks" are not on factor 23, the only class on 23 is a warrior. Look it all up yourself if you want to spout dmg table information that is not correct, but by doing this I'm going to instantly figure that the rest of your post is probably inaccurate as well talking about comparable dmg, which doesn't mean anything since the "sin" is also fighting with debuffs/poisons which should go into the dmg consideration.

Fri 19 Jun 2020 2:32 AM by Bradekes

gromet12 wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 12:50 AM
They are not on the lowest DMG factor and "tanks" are not on factor 23, the only class on 23 is a warrior. Look it all up yourself if you want to spout dmg table information that is not correct, but by doing this I'm going to instantly figure that the rest of your post is probably inaccurate as well talking about comparable dmg, which doesn't mean anything since the "sin" is also fighting with debuffs/poisons which should go into the dmg consideration.

My bad you're right about warriors being the only on 23 but others are on 22 and yes stealthers are still on the lowest damage table, out of the classes that can train weapons.

Fri 19 Jun 2020 11:33 PM by Fribrand

The key is that GARROTE is too powerful for the level that it is.
I was actually thinking that the growth rate shoud be lowered considerably or eliminated AND...
the snare should be reduced to 40%.
What GARROTE offers now needs to be adjusted.

This is not realm specific but it is level specific...
The problem at lower levels is far worse than at level 50.

The Devs have customized many things on this server...
A good amount of time, they have made things better.
If they wanted to make things better for Assassin/Fodder balance...
They would make GARROTE either a GOOD snare OR a GOOD damage style... but not both.

Fri 19 Jun 2020 11:41 PM by gotwqqd

Fribrand wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 11:33 PM
The key is that GARROTE is too powerful for the level that it is.
I was actually thinking that the growth rate shoud be lowered considerably or eliminated AND...
the snare should be reduced to 40%.
What GARROTE offers now needs to be adjusted.

This is not realm specific but it is level specific...
The problem at lower levels is far worse than at level 50.

The Devs have customized many things on this server...
A good amount of time, they have made things better.
If they wanted to make things better for Assassin/Fodder balance...
They would make GARROTE either a GOOD snare OR a GOOD damage style... but not both.

Or second part of chain

Tue 30 Jun 2020 12:17 AM by Fribrand

Thx Gotwqqd...
After reading your response I did some research.

All 60% slow affects that I could find were either positional or 2nd style in chain except 1.
That is the pole-arm style: Crippling Blow, so it is restricted to Armsmen.
I am Ok with that because they are the basic fighter class and their supposed to peal (and it only has 0.46 GR).
I would even be Ok with basic fighter classes in all 3 realms having a similar ability.

BUT... I am not Ok with Assassins having that ability on 1st style in chain at any growth rate.
Assassins already have style and poison options that can slow the enemy.
The current Garrote style simply gives them a spam-able 1 button win option.

I... now have a better proposition: Remove 60% slow from Garrote and put it on Thigh Cut.
It makes more sense that a slow affect style would be called "Thigh Cut".
It also puts the Backstab-II/Thigh Cut chain on par with the lvl 2/4/6 opening styles except they get the slow now instead of the Haste de-buff.
It also puts the Garrote/Achilles Heal chain more on par with other anytime style chains.
Lastly... It would have no effect what-so-ever on peeps who open up Backstab-II/Thigh Cut followed by Garrote/Achilles Heal.

So Devs... Make It So!

Tue 30 Jun 2020 4:13 AM by pollojack

You're going to run out of endo chasing someone while spamming garrote in RvR land. At the very least the fight will be so drawn out you'll draw agro before you can kill them.

You keep saying it is too strong for its level. Would bumping it to a lvl 24 or 25 skill be better for you? Thid is garbage rps, balance, and layout so do whatever it takes to get y'all to stop talking about it.

Wed 1 Jul 2020 10:01 AM by Noashakra

After 6 garrots you are OOE with pots and lw/tl... How OP is that.
if you want to perma snare someone, you better use the back snare dual...

And bg adjustments... it's too much work for a niche and it's not supposed to affect normal rvr.

Wed 1 Jul 2020 12:39 PM by Razur Ur

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 1 Jul 2020 10:01 AM
After 6 garrots you are OOE with pots and lw/tl... How OP is that.
if you want to perma snare someone, you better use the back snare dual...

And bg adjustments... it's too much work for a niche and it's not supposed to affect normal rvr.

garotte as back up style in combi with side strafe for side style is already strong and sometimes i have stealther where around me strafing and i can not move a meter because of snare + disease. there you can only face and hope to hit in the right moment, while the stealther is already trying to strafe his side style through. find it unnecessary that a stealther has an anytimer snare and also a growthrate of 0.74 which is totally exaggerated.

Wed 1 Jul 2020 1:20 PM by Noashakra

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Wed 1 Jul 2020 12:39 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 1 Jul 2020 10:01 AM
After 6 garrots you are OOE with pots and lw/tl... How OP is that.
if you want to perma snare someone, you better use the back snare dual...

And bg adjustments... it's too much work for a niche and it's not supposed to affect normal rvr.

garotte as back up style in combi with side strafe for side style is already strong and sometimes i have stealther where around me strafing and i can not move a meter because of snare + disease. there you can only face and hope to hit in the right moment, while the stealther is already trying to strafe his side style through. find it unnecessary that a stealther has an anytimer snare and also a growthrate of 0.74 which is totally exaggerated.

You need at least that when you are lvl 35 vs lvl 50 after the champion debuffs. Do you want to speak about your face snare+TS combo?
You play the most OP melee class, and you find snare+disease abusive?

Wed 1 Jul 2020 2:27 PM by Razur Ur

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 1 Jul 2020 1:20 PM
You need at least that when you are lvl 35 vs lvl 50 after the champion debuffs. Do you want to speak about your face snare+TS combo?
You play the most OP melee class, and you find snare+disease abusive?

So first of all comparing with 50 on level 35 because of debuffs I find a bit silly or you forget that some Stealther can also use dex/quick and str/con debuff from weapons. furthermore, i'm all about the fact that a stealther without skill can do just anyone and everything pa's + snaren/garottespam + disease, then just run away and play the same game over and over again and that's only thanks to garotte spam and i'm seriously asking myself now, am i not allowed to criticize anything here just because i play a champion who only has surgery every 15 minutes when all RA's are rdy? I have to say that sometimes it gets a bit ridiculous here and I wonder why they never cry about reavers who always put a champion in their pocket when they have the same RR.

Wed 1 Jul 2020 3:38 PM by Noashakra

It's just that you complain everytime someone ask for a champion balance, or asks for buffs, even on topic unrelated, but as soon as it's for asn, you ask for a nerf.

You have a face snare an instant snare, and if someone shows their back, you can rear stun 9s. You don't have to stun them at the start of the fight. You have all the tools to beat an asn. If kitting is such a big deal for you, maybe respec AoMagic 9 instead of deter 9...

Thu 2 Jul 2020 5:13 AM by jhaerik

gromet12 wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 12:50 AM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 12:10 AM
Fribrand wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 9:35 PM
Assassins are OP on this server. CRAZY OP at low level but even at high levels.

I don't want an across-the-board nerf - but, Garrote is being spam'd now because it is THAT GOOD.
I mean you get a 60% snare on a 0.74 growth rate attack.
Force assasins to choose between 60% snare or high damage.
Giving them both for a lvl 18 style is too much.

They still have a high growth rate (1.03) on the followup so this is not a huge nerf to lvl 50 peeps.
This affects low level BGs more but that is the balance that is needed.

Stealthers are on the lowest damage table. Which is 18 for your info. Just for reference a tank is on 23. So a stralther attacking with even a 1.03 growth rate is going to do similar damage to a light tank using a taunt style .59 growthrate

If you take 180×2.03 and 230×1.59 you actually get 365 which proves my point

They are not on the lowest DMG factor and "tanks" are not on factor 23, the only class on 23 is a warrior. Look it all up yourself if you want to spout dmg table information that is not correct, but by doing this I'm going to instantly figure that the rest of your post is probably inaccurate as well talking about comparable dmg, which doesn't mean anything since the "sin" is also fighting with debuffs/poisons which should go into the dmg consideration.

Honestly even my rr3L4 Blades BM with det 6, no IP, and purge 2 does fine against most stealthers a couple RR above him. Assuming they ever attack me or don't just all vanish and run... or it's not half a dozen of them.... The few fights I've had have usually been vs hunter+SB or Inf + scout and I usually drop one of them. I run a Dex/Quick Debuff proc weapon and a Str/Con debuff charge... evens things out nicely. Honestly after the double debuff and landing a Spectrum Blade or Blizzard melee stealth damage is pretty much non existent. I think the biggest issue tanks have is so many of them do nothing but spam their anytime.... against a guy who is actually using all of his styles.

That said they beat the crap out of my poor VW to the point I stopped playing him

I'd MUCH rather fight a SB or an Inf than a Mini, Necro, Thane or Skald. Just like I'm sure people much prefer fighting a NS to a Champ.

My only issue with melee stealth is they mostly just vanish and run. I'd rather see them buffed and vanish removed. Sucks running around looking for a fight for an hour only to have the guy vanish... go afk and go back to camping lowbies when the timer is up. I'd much rather die 60% of the time against a stealther because he's overbuffed than to just have them vanish all the damn time. Maybe if bleeds prevented this or something... ehh. Would actually make sense... follow the blood trail and all that.

Thu 2 Jul 2020 7:16 AM by Noashakra

I hate vanish, but on this server where you get added all the freaking time, it's QoL to not have to run 10mn to go back where you were.

Thu 2 Jul 2020 9:35 AM by jhaerik

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Jul 2020 7:16 AM
I hate vanish, but on this server where you get added all the freaking time, it's QoL to not have to run 10mn to go back where you were.

By that logic everyone should get it then no?
(and no I'm not serious)

Just saying it's hard enough to find anything but zergs in NF... vanish makes it even harder lol.

Thu 2 Jul 2020 3:54 PM by Noashakra

jhaerik wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Jul 2020 9:35 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Jul 2020 7:16 AM
I hate vanish, but on this server where you get added all the freaking time, it's QoL to not have to run 10mn to go back where you were.

By that logic everyone should get it then no?
(and no I'm not serious)

Just saying it's hard enough to find anything but zergs in NF... vanish makes it even harder lol.

I don't follow your logic. If people where not adding or running stealth zerg like douchebags, I would not care to die after a 1vs1.
I am not even asking people spare me, just that they wait for the end of the duel.

Thu 2 Jul 2020 8:44 PM by jhaerik

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Jul 2020 3:54 PM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Jul 2020 9:35 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Jul 2020 7:16 AM
I hate vanish, but on this server where you get added all the freaking time, it's QoL to not have to run 10mn to go back where you were.

By that logic everyone should get it then no?
(and no I'm not serious)

Just saying it's hard enough to find anything but zergs in NF... vanish makes it even harder lol.

I don't follow your logic. If people where not adding or running stealth zerg like douchebags, I would not care to die after a 1vs1.
I am not even asking people spare me, just that they wait for the end of the duel.

It's a war... not a duel zone...

Sometimes you get your 1v1, sometimes you don't. The games always been like that.

Thu 2 Jul 2020 9:35 PM by Noashakra

jhaerik wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Jul 2020 8:44 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Jul 2020 3:54 PM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Jul 2020 9:35 AM
By that logic everyone should get it then no?
(and no I'm not serious)

Just saying it's hard enough to find anything but zergs in NF... vanish makes it even harder lol.

I don't follow your logic. If people where not adding or running stealth zerg like douchebags, I would not care to die after a 1vs1.
I am not even asking people spare me, just that they wait for the end of the duel.

It's a war... not a duel zone...

Sometimes you get your 1v1, sometimes you don't. The games always been like that.

It's a game, you don't have to be a A hole when you don't have to.
I am just saying I would not have vanish if people were not A holes, nothing else. They have the right to be one, just to be clear.

Fri 3 Jul 2020 9:09 AM by jhaerik

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Jul 2020 9:35 PM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Jul 2020 8:44 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Jul 2020 3:54 PM
I don't follow your logic. If people where not adding or running stealth zerg like douchebags, I would not care to die after a 1vs1.
I am not even asking people spare me, just that they wait for the end of the duel.

It's a war... not a duel zone...

Sometimes you get your 1v1, sometimes you don't. The games always been like that.

It's a game, you don't have to be a A hole when you don't have to.
I am just saying I would not have vanish if people were not A holes, nothing else. They have the right to be one, just to be clear.

I mean do you not see how silly this would sound in any other game?

Imagine playing something like Battlefield and expecting other players to not shoot a target in the open just because you put your crosshairs on it first...

Fri 3 Jul 2020 9:14 AM by Noashakra

jhaerik wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Jul 2020 9:09 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Jul 2020 9:35 PM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Jul 2020 8:44 PM
It's a war... not a duel zone...

Sometimes you get your 1v1, sometimes you don't. The games always been like that.

It's a game, you don't have to be a A hole when you don't have to.
I am just saying I would not have vanish if people were not A holes, nothing else. They have the right to be one, just to be clear.

I mean do you not see how silly this would sound in any other game?

Imagine playing something like Battlefield and expecting other players to not shoot a target in the open just because you put your crosshairs on it first...

What are you speaking about, you compare fast fps action fps with a mmo where you have to travel often enough 10/15mn (sometimes more) to find solo action?
If I could solo 5 people in 1vs5 and have almost instant repop like in BF, you could make a comparaison.