To balance champs without a 8v8 nerf

Champions are the most well rounded 1v1 class hib offers, their 1v1 potential in a melee fight is very oppressive and their 1v1 vs casters is among the best of visible melees.

I think the easiest way to bring them slightly into balance would be removing their ability to spec Ignore Pain.

That would make them killable for most melee classes, while still being at the high end of the food chain, and still super strong in a non RA drop fight.

Sat 27 Jun 2020 6:53 PM by Nephamael

I made a champ myself and it is very strong at 4L0, but can be beaten by almost any class, especially if they play well or drop 1 or 2 RAs.

Sat 27 Jun 2020 8:02 PM by The Skies Asunder

So Champion can be beaten by almost any class, but you want to take away their ability to spec IP?

Sat 27 Jun 2020 9:14 PM by Amser

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Sat 27 Jun 2020 6:53 PM
I made a champ myself and it is very strong at 4L0, but can be beaten by almost any class, especially if they play well or drop 1 or 2 RAs.

The Skies Asunder wrote: ↑
Sat 27 Jun 2020 8:02 PM
So Champion can be beaten by almost any class, but you want to take away their ability to spec IP?

I feel like what Neph really meant to say is:

My 4L0 champ is really strong and will continue to get stronger. But almost any other class that is rr9+ with a few RAs to drop can kill it if they play well. When it is rr9+ like the rest of these people it will be an unstoppable killing machine at 1v1.

/s

Sat 27 Jun 2020 10:43 PM by opossum12

What would make sense idls probably to increase the rut on the debuffs from 20 to 30 seconds.

Gives you time to purge the debuffs and kill the champ.

Sat 27 Jun 2020 10:53 PM by Nephamael

I feel like what Neph really meant to say is:

My 4L0 champ is really strong and will continue to get stronger. But almost any other class that is rr9+ with a few RAs to drop can kill it if they play well. When it is rr9+ like the rest of these people it will be an unstoppable killing machine at 1v1.

it depends on the matchup, but yes, i can kill rr10 people with my rr4 champ if they don't purge.

some casters can kill my champ at rr1 ofc, assassins are pretty even with me.

The problem is at high rr a champ has no more counter (other than casters), cause he can drop purge, static AND IP on top.

If he didnt had IP he would be dead even with high rr assassins.

Champ does not need IP for 8v8, so why not just take it away so he is still strong but not ridiculous anymore 1v1.

Sat 27 Jun 2020 10:54 PM by Nephamael

Also the cooldown on debuffs can not be increased, cause that would hurt Champ in 8v8 too much, but it could be % enemy stat based,

(so the lower the enemies stats are the less you debuff - so same value in 8v8, but reduced value vs pot buffed enemies)

Sat 27 Jun 2020 10:58 PM by opossum12

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Sat 27 Jun 2020 10:54 PM
Also the cooldown on debuffs can not be increased, cause that would hurt Champ in 8v8 too much, but it could be % enemy stat based,

(so the lower the enemies stats are the less you debuff - so same value in 8v8, but reduced value vs pot buffed enemies)

That's exactly how the debuffs work since beta

Sat 27 Jun 2020 11:02 PM by Blitze

Champions are absolute 1v1 beasts and rr2 champs easily beat my rr7 friar, anything above rr4 makes the fight a walkover. This wasn’t the case on live, or uthgard 1/2.

Let’s disregard the active toys. ST, IP, WoC which are good solo RAs.

It all comes down to their main character feature....Their debuffs are huge. Going from 310dex to 160dex is massive. I had more Dex that that at level 20 think.
Even without dex debuff they still easily kill me with the str/con taking 25% of my max HP and the haste debuff making me super-slowmo and reflex attack a lot less.

Champs were awesome soloers in all DAoC patch lvls, in Uth 1+2... but here they are so much stronger, Anyone know why that is, could some formulas be wrong?

Sun 28 Jun 2020 12:27 AM by joshisanonymous

As a caster, like you said, I don't personally have any special issues fighting champs solo, but if they really need to be tuned down in solo melee fights, maybe lowering the delve on their self str/con buff would be a less severe way to do so? On Uthgard 2, it caps at 62, but it's the full spec 75 here. I can't imagine that makes all the difference, but maybe it would make some difference without causing any solo champs to throw a fit. Also, this would have little to no impact on group play unless Hib groups regularly run out of conc before being able to spec everyone, which I'm assuming is not the case?

Blitze wrote: Champions are absolute 1v1 beasts and rr2 champs easily beat my rr7 friar, anything above rr4 makes the fight a walkover. This wasn’t the case on live, or uthgard 1/2.

Let’s disregard the active toys. ST, IP, WoC which are good solo RAs.

It all comes down to their main character feature....Their debuffs are huge. Going from 310dex to 160dex is massive. I had more Dex that that at level 20 think.
Even without dex debuff they still easily kill me with the str/con taking 25% of my max HP and the haste debuff making me super-slowmo and reflex attack a lot less.

Champs were awesome soloers in all DAoC patch lvls, in Uth 1+2... but here they are so much stronger, Anyone know why that is, could some formulas be wrong?

I'm not surprised that they're difficult for a friar, but a bit surprised that they're that difficult. Is it hard to rotate snares/stuns/ST to kite away and heal or wait out debuffs when needed against champs? No idea how hard that sort of thing is to pull off in the heat of the moment, honestly.

Sun 28 Jun 2020 3:32 AM by thirian24

Blitze wrote: ↑
Sat 27 Jun 2020 11:02 PM
Champs were awesome soloers in all DAoC patch lvls, in Uth 1+2... but here they are so much stronger, Anyone know why that is, could some formulas be wrong?

They increased their dmg tables here.

My Merc is 8L5, i fought so many champs over the last few days in the PVP zone. I still get wrecked by them when they dont have RAs up and i RA dump. Pretty wild.

Ive seen them take on 3-4 people, having WOC, Purge, IP, ST and FA2 at their disposal. The issue is, there is no real way to counter their high debuffs when the ONLY thing we have access to is blue buffs. Youre dumb if you purge their debuffs, b/c youll just eat a slam and then be debuffed right away again.

Sun 28 Jun 2020 4:38 AM by Nephamael

Champions are absolute 1v1 beasts and rr2 champs easily beat my rr7 friar, anything above rr4 makes the fight a walkover. This wasn’t the case on live, or uthgard 1/2.

Let’s disregard the active toys. ST, IP, WoC which are good solo RAs.

It all comes down to their main character feature....Their debuffs are huge. Going from 310dex to 160dex is massive. I had more Dex that that at level 20 think.
Even without dex debuff they still easily kill me with the str/con taking 25% of my max HP and the haste debuff making me super-slowmo and reflex attack a lot less.

Champs were awesome soloers in all DAoC patch lvls, in Uth 1+2... but here they are so much stronger, Anyone know why that is, could some formulas be wrong?

actually champ is the rock to friar being a scissor, so the champ's power feels much more unreal op for a friar than it does to dual wielders. (Champ has shield vs staff = 2h and uses 2h vs friars parry and evade)

I actually perform very well with my 7L2 nightshade vs champs and am able to kill many that are even or higher rr than me. Against the top rr champs i can't win tho, if they RAdump on me, even if i play absolutely perfect and have some evade luck.

Champ actually has a pretty low weaponskill, which is why assassins are so strong vs them, cause they further reduce the champ's weaponskill/dmg , so champs struggle to hit back as hard as they do vs others, that can't debuff the champ back.

In that way they are the only natural melee counter vs champ (mercs are dead even with champ, but are a very straight fowards melee only class with no single counter vs casters, unlike champ). To make that counter apply, removing IP would be a huge deal.

Sun 28 Jun 2020 4:42 AM by Nephamael

That's exactly how the debuffs work since beta

If champs debuffs are already % enemy stat based, which i don't know of (on my champ the debuff just displays a fix value), i suggest they could be adjusted to scale down faster the lower the enemies stats are.

So like enemy has 320 dex, i do the full 75?! value debuff.

Enemy has 250 dex i do 55 debuff.

Enemy has 200 dex i do 37.5 debuff.

The debuff shud probably not get reduced by more than half it's value by the downscaling.

Sun 28 Jun 2020 6:42 AM by DarkDavion

I have a RR7 champ and I can say that sins literally destroy me if I haven't purge/ip and with the toys up still a hard fight. Merc, reavers and pallys can definitely fight me if well played. Literally no sense nerfing a class easily destroyed by basically all casters and just good vs melees. U need to nerf a class with no counters cough minstrel cough.. And in my opinion with the new patch infis are over the top now, they can just kill every class in the game, this wasn't immaginable in daoc classic that an infi can ez kill a pally/hero/champ.. Lul

BTW as grues told 75665times balance is about 8v8,so bcs hero and bm are already better than champs is pointless think to nerf just bcs u struggle vs them with your melee...if u are sick of them get your caster and kill them.. What about sins that fu.ck every class with their retarded huge dmg blast?

Sun 28 Jun 2020 7:28 AM by easytoremember

DarkDavion wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jun 2020 6:42 AM
BTW as grues told 75665times balance is about 8v8

take a good look at the name of the thread you're posting in

Sun 28 Jun 2020 8:03 AM by DarkDavion

easytoremember wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jun 2020 7:28 AM
DarkDavion wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jun 2020 6:42 AM
BTW as grues told 75665times balance is about 8v8
take a good look at the name of the thread you're posting in

You can't understand English, right now already groups prefer bm and heroes,if u remove IP without adding anything are making champs even worse, hard to get this?

Sun 28 Jun 2020 8:23 AM by Blitze

Sometimes nerfs to solo and buffs to group ability can make for a better overall class.

For example In 2018/2019, friars were least popular class on server and only played solo, which the were very good at and no dual weilder had a chance... they lost dodger and got reflex attack nerfed. This hurt their solo ability. But their heals, healproc, cureNS got bumped. They started getting more 8v8 groups and overall became more popular. The class health improved

Could a similar thing not happen to champs? Firstly, Have a look at their debuffs* and then have a look at making them more groupable**? Do Champions want to be the king of 1v1 duelling against melee and that’s it (with pvp zone now, I can see many champs wanting no change).

*So atm the champs 75 delve debuffs take 150 (1/2 ur stats). Is this a custom Phoenix thing as I only have my memory to go on and my memory says Champs debuffs were good but not this good? It could be a combination of the use of buffpots and increased health here which make fights longer and render purging their debuffs pointless.

**Ideas for groupability improvements:
1. Give them LW sidesnare
2. Make Str/Con buff a group buff
3. Add parry guard: whilst they have 2hnder out (I suggested this for Friar) to Work the same as shield guard but not stack with it though.
4. Add a 10-20%ish all magic resist debuff to the DD.
5. Change their snare to massively reduce (Duration to like 3-4s) but not apply immunity (akin to amber pet stun)

Finally, does anyone else think the 2hnd/shield weapon swap thing is weird, surely with the low WS of their 1hnd they should block/parry way less with it out???????

Sun 28 Jun 2020 1:02 PM by Bradekes

thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jun 2020 3:32 AM
Blitze wrote: ↑
Sat 27 Jun 2020 11:02 PM
Champs were awesome soloers in all DAoC patch lvls, in Uth 1+2... but here they are so much stronger, Anyone know why that is, could some formulas be wrong?

They increased their dmg tables here.

No they didn't. They've only increased Friar and Paladin damage table. It states that in the wiki. Champs are on 19 damage table as they are in 1.65 which they've always been on. Unless you have some insight or a link to this information don't spread lies.

Sun 28 Jun 2020 1:23 PM by Forlornhope

Blitze wrote: ↑
Sat 27 Jun 2020 11:02 PM
Champions are absolute 1v1 beasts and rr2 champs easily beat my rr7 friar, anything above rr4 makes the fight a walkover. This wasn’t the case on live, or uthgard 1/2.

Let’s disregard the active toys. ST, IP, WoC which are good solo RAs.

It all comes down to their main character feature....Their debuffs are huge. Going from 310dex to 160dex is massive. I had more Dex that that at level 20 think.
Even without dex debuff they still easily kill me with the str/con taking 25% of my max HP and the haste debuff making me super-slowmo and reflex attack a lot less.

Champs were awesome soloers in all DAoC patch lvls, in Uth 1+2... but here they are so much stronger, Anyone know why that is, could some formulas be wrong?

So, I've been dipping my toes into starting a solo friar for the pvp zone. I am curious, what do you think the ideal staff speed is? My temp's weaponless so I've got unlimited options atm. Totally aware this isn't the right thread for it, but I've seen ya post about 'em a few times. Thought I'd ask lol

Sun 28 Jun 2020 1:48 PM by Bradekes

Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jun 2020 1:23 PM
So, I've been dipping my toes into starting a solo friar for the pvp zone. I am curious, what do you think the ideal staff speed is? My temp's weaponless so I've got unlimited options atm. Totally aware this isn't the right thread for it, but I've seen ya post about 'em a few times. Thought I'd ask lol

Faster staves are better now, for hesl proc rate & because they made it so your counter attacks from the RA are based on your weapon speed faster = more counter attacks.

There is a rule of thumb in daoc anyways you want to usually have the fastest weapon that gives you 1.5 weapon speed after factoring in Qui and weapon haste.

Others say slowest weapon possible but that's just the lazy way or if you are in a melee train and want to hit as hard as you can on your first hit. The other time having the slowest weapon factors into dps is dual wielding. You want the absolute slowest mainhand and absolute fastest off hand.

Sun 28 Jun 2020 3:31 PM by Blitze

As an aside. Friar staffs, slower is better for burst and especially DPS for the 30s of your haste spell.

With respect to reflex attack... faster staffs reflex more often and slower less. It’s balanced in a similar way to how a slower weapon procs go off more often, so the DPS should be similar ish. I haven’t really noticed much overall benefit going to 4.2staff but some prefer faster.

For solo, there is
1. Sidi healproc 5.0spd(I think) (18% proc rate)
2. Sidi Brazen Stout Defender (5.6 spd ablative) (18% proc rate)
3. a RoG Lifetap proc (15% proc rate). I’d choose 5.5speed but whatever u like.

All work fine.

For group play you’ll also want
1. A fast staff to peel super quick (3.0-3.5speed). This staff will help against SMs and Wardens whilst solo too.
2. A 5.5speed with LT or DDproc for the assist train.

Im kinda in love with the Brazen stout Defender (Ablative proc) and 5.6speed. It’s awesome when the haste is up and great against assassins. I have healprocs on armor to match this staff.

Sun 28 Jun 2020 6:31 PM by thirian24

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jun 2020 1:02 PM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jun 2020 3:32 AM
Blitze wrote: ↑
Sat 27 Jun 2020 11:02 PM
Champs were awesome soloers in all DAoC patch lvls, in Uth 1+2... but here they are so much stronger, Anyone know why that is, could some formulas be wrong?

They increased their dmg tables here.

No they didn't. They've only increased Friar and Paladin damage table. It states that in the wiki. Champs are on 19 damage table as they are in 1.65 which they've always been on. Unless you have some insight or a link to this information don't spread lies.

Lol.

I just thought I remember them upping their dmg table when they did it with Friar and paladin. It's a simple mistake and I'm not trying to spread lies. Calm the fuck down.

Sun 28 Jun 2020 7:57 PM by Bradekes

thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jun 2020 6:31 PM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jun 2020 1:02 PM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jun 2020 3:32 AM
They increased their dmg tables here.

No they didn't. They've only increased Friar and Paladin damage table. It states that in the wiki. Champs are on 19 damage table as they are in 1.65 which they've always been on. Unless you have some insight or a link to this information don't spread lies.

Lol.

I just thought I remember them upping their dmg table when they did it with Friar and paladin. It's a simple mistake and I'm not trying to spread lies. Calm the fuck down.

Sorry I am just sick of Hib getting nerfed.. this whole post makes me cringe

Sun 28 Jun 2020 8:19 PM by Blitze

Don’t think of it like that...

You wouldn’t think that friars were nerfed would you? Friars were nerfed in 1v1 and buffed in groups, overall friars went from least popular class to 8th lowest I think...

Champions should get some improvements in group ability If they are toned down 1v1.

Sun 28 Jun 2020 8:23 PM by Bradekes

Blitze wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jun 2020 8:19 PM
Don’t think of it like that...

You wouldn’t think that friars were nerfed would you? Friars were nerfed in 1v1 and buffed in groups, overall friars went from least popular class to 8th lowest I think...

Champions should get some improvements in group ability If they are toned down 1v1.

when were Friar ever nerfed? They have only received buffs and many many buffs have the received

Sun 28 Jun 2020 8:26 PM by Blitze

Off the top of my head:

WS/con poison here instead of str/con
Dodger RA Removal
Huge Reflex RA Nerf.

All effect solo friar not group.

Sun 28 Jun 2020 8:40 PM by Bradekes

Blitze wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jun 2020 8:26 PM
Off the top of my head:

WS/con poison here instead of str/con
Dodger RA Removal
Huge Reflex RA Nerf.

All effect solo friar not group.

These are not "Friar" nerfs...

WS/Con poison affected thrust, pierce, spear, shield, bows as well.

Dodger being removed affected other classes more, notably the ones with advanced evade.

also Reflex nerf was not a "Friar" nerf either it affect everyone with the RA as well

Again there have been no Friar nerfs. Nerfing/Removing an RA is not the same as nerfing abilities that only a single class can train in. Get your facts straight and not comparing apples and oranges.

Sun 28 Jun 2020 9:21 PM by Blitze

Staff is the only 100% dex main weapon... therefore, they are way more affected by ws/poison than any other class.

Evade is friars main defence (alongside VW & assa) so having no RA to buff it is hard. (Do any solo Reavers run without MoB?)

Reflex attack was Friars signature OF realm ability (it was a timer & 100% proc chance). Then NF came along and made it passive and gave to Merc/BM/zerk. Here it was toned down to a custom version that’s effected by your own and your opponents weapon speed.

Honest question... has Champion had any solo nerfs here?

Sun 28 Jun 2020 10:54 PM by Bradekes

Blitze wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jun 2020 9:21 PM
Staff is the only 100% dex main weapon... therefore, they are way more affected by ws/poison than any other class.

Evade is friars main defence (alongside VW & assa) so having no RA to buff it is hard. (Do any solo Reavers run without MoB?)

Reflex attack was Friars signature OF realm ability (it was a timer & 100% proc chance). Then NF came along and made it passive and gave to Merc/BM/zerk. Here it was toned down to a custom version that’s effected by your own and your opponents weapon speed.

Honest question... has Champion had any solo nerfs here?

The old Reflex Attack was garbage. You could just kite the friar after he popped it. And the new adjustments on it were warranted and if you use a decent speed weapon it isn't really much of a nerf, especially vs 2h users like champion. It really sounds like friar was more affected vs fights against stealthers and not champion so why are you saying champs should get nerfed seeings your friar wasn't really affected vs fighting them.

Mon 29 Jun 2020 8:20 AM by Blitze

Friars were nerfed in an area they were already great at... 1v1s and specifically sneak killing. they were buffed elsewhere and overall Friars are better off for it.

I am not asking for a Champ nerf, I am asking current champ players (and Devs) if this Champion version is the one you want and you’re happy to absolutely destroy meleers and struggles-ish in other areas (getting groups, siege, and Vs casters)...

[To be honest, prior to the reflex nerf I didn’t want friars “balanced” across areas of the game and wanted them to continue to excel at 1v1s. As I had minimal interest in buffing Rejuv so Friars could group. Looking back, I am glad I was ignored and now
plenty more Friars are in the frontiers.]

Tue 30 Jun 2020 5:49 PM by Nephamael

I am not asking for a Champ nerf, I am asking current champ players (and Devs) if this Champion version is the one you want and you’re happy to absolutely destroy meleers and struggles-ish in other areas (getting groups, siege, and Vs casters)...

The reason why i created the thread is because i personally play a champ and it is too strong at RR4 even tho it has 2 counters, casters and assassins.

What i say is the one counter = assassins aren't able to perform as a counter at high rr, because the champion has 2 much RAdump potential.
It will be an about even fight if champ has static and fa (and woc, which is abyssmal weak with the hp changes) but no IP.

I am unable to kill the best high rr assassins with my RR4 champ, but i can already kill RR8-10 assassins if they miss pa/backstab at more than 50% chance, if they don't purge.

Tue 30 Jun 2020 5:52 PM by Nephamael

From my experience playing vs Ferboten and with him, i feel like champ in small/8 is in a pretty healthy shape and i don't know if we want to have champs get stoicism, but in the end why not.

If we increase the curve of debuff to be stronger at higher enemy stat values and weaker at lower enemy stat values champ gets weakened in 1v1 and strengthened in 8v8.

Tue 30 Jun 2020 5:56 PM by Nephamael

Off the top of my head:

WS/con poison here instead of str/con
Dodger RA Removal
Huge Reflex RA Nerf.

All effect solo friar not group.

@ Friar topic: friars are more rock/paper/scissor than some other classes. My 7L5 BM can't beat a well played rr4 friar, but my RR4 champ can beat a RR10 friar.

If you play friar you have to accept, that you have many strong and many weak matchups and only a few balanced ones (assassins and ??)

Tue 30 Jun 2020 6:52 PM by Forlornhope

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Tue 30 Jun 2020 5:56 PM
Off the top of my head:

WS/con poison here instead of str/con
Dodger RA Removal
Huge Reflex RA Nerf.

All effect solo friar not group.

@ Friar topic: friars are more rock/paper/scissor than some other classes. My 7L5 BM can't beat a well played rr4 friar, but my RR4 champ can beat a RR10 friar.

If you play friar you have to accept, that you have many strong and many weak matchups and only a few balanced ones (assassins and ??)

Honestly, I generally do pretty well on my friar against Skalds. rr4 friar has beaten numerous rr10 skalds, but yeah there's some really bad matchups as well.

Tue 30 Jun 2020 7:28 PM by Amser

Blitze wrote: ↑
Mon 29 Jun 2020 8:20 AM
Friars were nerfed in an area they were already great at... 1v1s and specifically sneak killing. they were buffed elsewhere and overall Friars are better off for it.

I am not asking for a Champ nerf, I am asking current champ players (and Devs) if this Champion version is the one you want and you’re happy to absolutely destroy meleers and struggles-ish in other areas (getting groups, siege, and Vs casters)...

[To be honest, prior to the reflex nerf I didn’t want friars “balanced” across areas of the game and wanted them to continue to excel at 1v1s. As I had minimal interest in buffing Rejuv so Friars could group. Looking back, I am glad I was ignored and now
plenty more Friars are in the frontiers.]

Are champs really that easy for casters to kill? Its not like champs have to fight enchanters with castable stuns, self debuffs and pet with casting snares. I personally haven't played one in big boy rvr so I would love to get a response. The insta's for interrupting and insta snare make it appear easier for champs to kill a caster than many of the other tankier classes from the other realms. When a champ RA dumped on my cabby solo, I got wrecked.

Thu 2 Jul 2020 10:34 AM by jhaerik

Blitze wrote: ↑
Sat 27 Jun 2020 11:02 PM
Champions are absolute 1v1 beasts and rr2 champs easily beat my rr7 friar, anything above rr4 makes the fight a walkover. This wasn’t the case on live, or uthgard 1/2.

Let’s disregard the active toys. ST, IP, WoC which are good solo RAs.

It all comes down to their main character feature....Their debuffs are huge. Going from 310dex to 160dex is massive. I had more Dex that that at level 20 think.
Even without dex debuff they still easily kill me with the str/con taking 25% of my max HP and the haste debuff making me super-slowmo and reflex attack a lot less.

Champs were awesome soloers in all DAoC patch lvls, in Uth 1+2... but here they are so much stronger, Anyone know why that is, could some formulas be wrong?

To be fair about anything can beat a friar 1v1.

Thu 2 Jul 2020 10:37 AM by jhaerik

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Tue 30 Jun 2020 5:49 PM
I am not asking for a Champ nerf, I am asking current champ players (and Devs) if this Champion version is the one you want and you’re happy to absolutely destroy meleers and struggles-ish in other areas (getting groups, siege, and Vs casters)...

The reason why i created the thread is because i personally play a champ and it is too strong at RR4 even tho it has 2 counters, casters and assassins.

What i say is the one counter = assassins aren't able to perform as a counter at high rr, because the champion has 2 much RAdump potential.
It will be an about even fight if champ has static and fa (and woc, which is abyssmal weak with the hp changes) but no IP.

I am unable to kill the best high rr assassins with my RR4 champ, but i can already kill RR8-10 assassins if they miss pa/backstab at more than 50% chance, if they don't purge.

If you exclude support specs that cant 1v1 their way out of a paper sack... casters and assassins would basically be half the roster... winning vs half the roster and losing vs half the roster sounds pretty balanced to me...

The only thing that puts Champ above a Reaver for 1v1 really is the ST stun reset. ST is the issue not the champ. I mean can you imagine how busted Reavers would be if they had ST?

Thu 2 Jul 2020 11:31 AM by Blitze

Casters aren’t that common as soloers due to assassins having their life.
But Generally, casters seems able to trash melees, especially ones without numerous rupts and a snare. Champs (and reavs) deffo have more chance than most (cept skald/mini).

Fri 3 Jul 2020 3:25 AM by Nephamael

Casters aren’t that common as soloers due to assassins having their life.

the PvP zone has it's rotations - people play tons of champs/mercs, casters appear, people logg their assassins, the casters logg melees again :p

All casters can beat a champ, but the champ can fight back better than some other melees without spells. But champ is still free RPs to any kite caster like cabba/eld/ench/sm/sorc/bd/necro, even a wiz or rm can kite a champ if he plays it well.

Fri 3 Jul 2020 3:28 AM by Nephamael

If you exclude support specs that cant 1v1 their way out of a paper sack... casters and assassins would basically be half the roster... winning vs half the roster and losing vs half the roster sounds pretty balanced to me...

The only thing that puts Champ above a Reaver for 1v1 really is the ST stun reset. ST is the issue not the champ. I mean can you imagine how busted Reavers would be if they had ST?

Yes it's true, if assassins get to be the counter they can be vs champs by removing the champ's ability to spec IP we might have a balance again.

Static can't be removed from champ cause its a very important RA for castergrp 8v8 (and the only reason such a grp would grp a champ over a hero or bm for peel).

And reavers levi dps is far far above a champ's or thane's dps potential

Fri 3 Jul 2020 6:24 AM by Razur Ur

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Jul 2020 3:28 AM
And reavers levi dps is far far above a champ's or thane's dps potential

haha this is a good joke and i wonder why a reaver gives me about 70% of my life with levi if i don't have a purge rdy! levi makes the same dmg as the champion's back
style but the levi is executed with a 1h weapon so much faster swing time!