Scout rework - Phoenix Freeshard

I suggest we rework scout, so he can actually kill things solo.

Ways to do it could be:

-remove root shield style, give scout significantly more dps (both bow and melee)
or
-remove root shield style, give scout selfbuffs in shieldspec = same result, more dps and sturdy for melee -----this seems to me the best option, cause it doesnt change scouts impact in zergfights-----
or
- give root shield style actual root with root immunity, give scout more dps
or
-give scout 2h and selfbuffs = would rework the idea of the class, but i dont hate the idea ^^

Thu 25 Jun 2020 6:47 PM by Nephamael

I personally tested solo bow kite scout, and its abyssmal, you can kite people for 5 minutes without one of the 2 dying.

But at the same time your dps is so low, everyone can run away from you from the start or mid fight at any point and the scout can't do anything about it.

Thu 25 Jun 2020 6:47 PM by Nephamael

I also talked to a lot of higher rr scouts and they all agree with my ideas.

Thu 25 Jun 2020 7:04 PM by The Skies Asunder

If you are going to give Scouts self buffs, they can't be added into the shield line. Hunter, and Ranger both have a separate spec line for these spells. So you would either need a new spec line for Scouts, or to merge the buffs into something else for Hunter, and Ranger. Specifically Ranger though, as they already have to spec into more things than the other two archers.

Fri 26 Jun 2020 2:43 AM by Nephamael

If you are going to give Scouts self buffs, they can't be added into the shield line. Hunter, and Ranger both have a separate spec line for these spells. So you would either need a new spec line for Scouts, or to merge the buffs into something else for Hunter, and Ranger. Specifically Ranger though, as they already have to spec into more things than the other two archers.

Hunter only has to spec 1 weapon line and ranger get's enough points to spec weapon and cd.

It would be easiest to put it in scout's shield line, as it would need no specpoint alterations and scouts already spec 42-50 shield naturally with whichever spec they go for (bow or melee).

But if the DEVs want to put the work into a new specline and alter spec points then it would be the optimal approach, leaving scouts with more options for tweaking their personal spec.

Fri 26 Jun 2020 2:52 AM by Spiegal

I don't think giving more DPS to the class that has access to the longest range and slowest bow in the realm is the way to go.
You guys have already good tools and good defense.

To be honest, that snare ability is pretty good (which was added). I suggest to develop your ideas around that ability.

Fri 26 Jun 2020 5:44 AM by Neso

^ did you read anything in this thread other than the topic name?

Fri 26 Jun 2020 7:22 AM by gotwqqd

Spiegal wrote: ↑
Fri 26 Jun 2020 2:52 AM
I don't think giving more DPS to the class that has access to the longest range and slowest bow in the realm is the way to go.
You guys have already good tools and good defense.

To be honest, that snare ability is pretty good (which was added). I suggest to develop your ideas around that ability.

You do know that rangers have same speed bow options, and I’m not so sure about range being different.

And you know the rangers bow damage is superior to the ‘purest’ archer class?

And personally I think for archers the doggie outstrips the dual wield. For a solo sniper, the hunter is only one that can do anything if closed on.

Fri 26 Jun 2020 7:57 AM by Tamy

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 26 Jun 2020 7:22 AM
Spiegal wrote: ↑
Fri 26 Jun 2020 2:52 AM
I don't think giving more DPS to the class that has access to the longest range and slowest bow in the realm is the way to go.
You guys have already good tools and good defense.

To be honest, that snare ability is pretty good (which was added). I suggest to develop your ideas around that ability.

You do know that rangers have same speed bow options, and I’m not so sure about range being different.

And you know the rangers bow damage is superior to the ‘purest’ archer class?

And personally I think for archers the doggie outstrips the dual wield. For a solo sniper, the hunter is only one that can do anything if closed on.

Scout has 100 locs more range. But yes, the same bow speed as ranger on this server.

Fri 26 Jun 2020 9:10 AM by Noashakra

Boost the melee dps of the scout. Maybe more bleed to the weapons lines? It would go well with the shield.
If you give them a new buff line, they need more spec points, otherwise it's useless.

But yeah remove the snare and up them in another way.

Fri 26 Jun 2020 6:01 PM by The Skies Asunder

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Fri 26 Jun 2020 2:43 AM
If you are going to give Scouts self buffs, they can't be added into the shield line. Hunter, and Ranger both have a separate spec line for these spells. So you would either need a new spec line for Scouts, or to merge the buffs into something else for Hunter, and Ranger. Specifically Ranger though, as they already have to spec into more things than the other two archers.

Hunter only has to spec 1 weapon line and ranger get's enough points to spec weapon and cd.

It would be easiest to put it in scout's shield line, as it would need no specpoint alterations and scouts already spec 42-50 shield naturally with whichever spec they go for (bow or melee).

But if the DEVs want to put the work into a new specline and alter spec points then it would be the optimal approach, leaving scouts with more options for tweaking their personal spec.

All of the archer classes have the exact same spec points, and Ranger has 5 skills to spec into, while the other two only have 4. What you're suggesting is to give the benefits of self buffs, without the drawback of having to split your spec points. It would be like putting all the Ranger's buffs into the CD line. I am not opposed to Scout receiving self buffs (I support full buffs/bots for everyone anyway), but they would need to be only dex/qui, and spec AF if they were added to another line. If they were to receive similar buffs to strength, and DA like Ranger, or even something new, they would need to be split to another spec.

Fri 26 Jun 2020 6:01 PM by Cadebrennus

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Fri 26 Jun 2020 2:43 AM
If you are going to give Scouts self buffs, they can't be added into the shield line. Hunter, and Ranger both have a separate spec line for these spells. So you would either need a new spec line for Scouts, or to merge the buffs into something else for Hunter, and Ranger. Specifically Ranger though, as they already have to spec into more things than the other two archers.

Hunter only has to spec 1 weapon line and ranger get's enough points to spec weapon and cd.

It would be easiest to put it in scout's shield line, as it would need no specpoint alterations and scouts already spec 42-50 shield naturally with whichever spec they go for (bow or melee).

But if the DEVs want to put the work into a new specline and alter spec points then it would be the optimal approach, leaving scouts with more options for tweaking their personal spec.

The Ranger has to nerf SOMETHING in order to get PF to a respectable level. That's usually either CD (capping at 18-19 CD) or Archery (only 12 Archery) if they want to have 35ish stealth. Even in a Visi Ranger spec something has to be sacrificed. That's not the case with a Scout or Hunter.

Sat 27 Jun 2020 9:23 PM by Fribrand

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Jun 2020 6:47 PM
I personally tested solo bow kite scout, and its abyssmal, you can kite people for 5 minutes without one of the 2 dying.

But at the same time your dps is so low, everyone can run away from you from the start or mid fight at any point and the scout can't do anything about it.

DEVs... PLEASE... Forgive them for they know not what they do...

I play all 3 Archer classes on this server.
The Ranger is best at melee (has to sacrifice ranged for melee).
The Hunter is the most fun to play (pet adds versatility but hard to hide).
The scout is best at defense (does defense matter in this game?).

There are problems that the initial game designers put into play that still plague the Archer classes.
BUT... BUT... BUT... You fools are asking for the wrong thing!!!

Some of you want the Archers (Scout specifically) to run around in stealth, shoot someone 3-5 times (killing them),
Then be able to run off and disappear without even putting yourself at risk.
THIS IS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN!!! STOP ASKING FOR IT!!!

Even kiting to kill someone without actually engaging in melee should not be coveted because it wont happen.
The Archer class is a combo class that has ranged and melee capabilities.
You should plan to damage your target at range and finish it in melee.

If you want to kill someone entirely at range... PLAY A CASTER!!!.
No class should be able to stealth and kill at range.
The Devs and other players will not let that happen.

What you whiners have done is hurt us by getting some of what you wanted

You wanted more damage and got it with higher Bow spec.
Then, you ran out in groups and forced the nerf to damage that you DESERVED.

We now have to spec higher into Bow and don't have the spec points left for melee.
So, now we don't have the melee styles or damage to finish people off.

If you need to play an OP class that uses stealth... play an assassin and at least put yourselves in harms way.

I have some ideas about helping Archers but will present them in a new thread later.
I apologize for not starting this sooner but work/life intervened.
First, It is important to discuss what an Archer class should be on this server...
Because, we obviously have differences of opinion on what the Devs will and will not let Archers be.

Sat 27 Jun 2020 10:59 PM by Nephamael

Even kiting to kill someone without actually engaging in melee should not be coveted because it wont happen.
The Archer class is a combo class that has ranged and melee capabilities.
You should plan to damage your target at range and finish it in melee.

The problem with your thinking is - it only works if the other guy runs to us and not away. If you don't give scout selfbuffs or another dps buff for ranged AND melee the crucial problem does not get removed, everyone can run away = scout is not a viable class to kill anything solo.

Sat 27 Jun 2020 11:53 PM by daytonchambers

Fribrand wrote: ↑
Sat 27 Jun 2020 9:23 PM
"DEVs... PLEASE... Forgive them for they know not what they do"...

"I play all 3 Archer classes on this server"...

"BUT... BUT... BUT... You fools are asking for the wrong thing!!!"...

"What you whiners have done is hurt us by getting some of what you wanted "...

I have no fucking clue who you are, and with your arrogant and condescending attitude I don't care to know you aside from possibly being able to grief your characters.