Warden could use protect - Phoenix Freeshard

Hey, i have been having a lot of fun playing my battlewarden lately, unfortunately warden lacks protect to be able to compete with fulltanks for endgame PvE content.

I think this small tool would enable more groups to easily invite wardens into Darkspire or Halls of Helgath 2 tank grps.

And as we all want to see more classes being 100% viable in there wouldn't that be great?

I think it would also not hurt to boost the warden's weaponskill by about 100 value without any negative impact on 8v8/1v1 (warden is far far away from being a strong 1v1 character)

Wed 24 Jun 2020 9:35 PM by Nephamael

while we're talking warden, i understand you don't want wardens to have shieldspec so they are not the op goto guardbot for 8v8, but we could give them the ability to spec the RA mastery of block, to boost their tankiness a little bit (base blockrate+dex+mob5 should be pretty noticeable in PvE and help the warden vs 2h in 1v1 where warden currently heavily struggles)

Wed 24 Jun 2020 10:25 PM by Bradekes

They don't care about wardens. They also don't care about Hibernia in general lol.. kinda sucks

Wed 24 Jun 2020 10:45 PM by Kurbsen

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jun 2020 10:25 PM
They don't care about wardens. They also don't care about Hibernia in general lol.. kinda sucks

literally just gave them cure nearsight lol

Wed 24 Jun 2020 10:47 PM by borodino1812

Kurbsen wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jun 2020 10:45 PM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jun 2020 10:25 PM
They don't care about wardens. They also don't care about Hibernia in general lol.. kinda sucks

literally just gave them cure nearsight lol

Yes, the idea seems to be to make the Warden a Nurture/Regrowth support class, thus not opening for the battle warden. That is the design goal of the devs it seems, so plan accordingly.

Wed 24 Jun 2020 10:47 PM by Bradekes

Kurbsen wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jun 2020 10:45 PM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jun 2020 10:25 PM
They don't care about wardens. They also don't care about Hibernia in general lol.. kinda sucks

literally just gave them cure nearsight lol

After friars have had it for like 4months and they just buffed friars and paladin again with this same patch.

I'm telling you.. look at all the buffs and changes to the realms. Hib has literally received one thing that wasn't given to every realm to equalize and that was Champs debuff enhancement(which isn't mentions anywhere it may not be true).There have been quite a few nerfs to hib though, bard amnesia nerf and multiple animist nerf and nerfs to ns by removing their custom spell spec from stealth and dex as acuity.

Wed 24 Jun 2020 10:53 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jun 2020 10:47 PM
After friars have had it for like 4months and they just buffed friars and paladin again with this same patch.

Meanwhile, Midgard still only has one class with the ability to clear nearsight, clearly the devs hate Midgard.

See, anyone can play that game.

Wed 24 Jun 2020 10:55 PM by Bradekes

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jun 2020 10:53 PM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jun 2020 10:47 PM
After friars have had it for like 4months and they just buffed friars and paladin again with this same patch.

Meanwhile, Midgard still only has one class with the ability to clear nearsight, clearly the devs hate Midgard.

See, anyone can play that game.

Except the fact that shaman have literally the best damage spec as third spec from the other main buffers. They give up greater mending skills to sacrifice for it so it is fair.

Why should a class with a castable bolt spell get nearsight cure?

Wed 24 Jun 2020 11:38 PM by opossum12

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jun 2020 10:55 PM
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jun 2020 10:53 PM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jun 2020 10:47 PM
After friars have had it for like 4months and they just buffed friars and paladin again with this same patch.

Meanwhile, Midgard still only has one class with the ability to clear nearsight, clearly the devs hate Midgard.

See, anyone can play that game.

Except the fact that shaman have literally the best damage spec as third spec from the other main buffers. They give up greater mending skills to sacrifice for it so it is fair.

Why should a class with a castable bolt spell get nearsight cure?

How are a bolt and a cure NS spell linked in your head?

Wed 24 Jun 2020 11:46 PM by Vkejai

Wardens need shield spec

Wed 24 Jun 2020 11:52 PM by Bradekes

opossum12 wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jun 2020 11:38 PM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jun 2020 10:55 PM
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jun 2020 10:53 PM
Meanwhile, Midgard still only has one class with the ability to clear nearsight, clearly the devs hate Midgard.

See, anyone can play that game.

Except the fact that shaman have literally the best damage spec as third spec from the other main buffers. They give up greater mending skills to sacrifice for it so it is fair.

Why should a class with a castable bolt spell get nearsight cure?

How are a bolt and a cure NS spell linked in your head?

It's more of the first part of my statement. Warden and friar don't personally benefit from nearsight cure offensively as a shaman would, and for the fact that shaman give up other mending abilities(greater heal, spec group heal, and spreadheal) for offensive abilities (aoe poison, instant pbaoe disease, nuke, and bolt)

Thu 25 Jun 2020 2:31 AM by ExcretusMaximus

So now we're going to pretend Shamans spec anything other than 27 cave for RvR, just to fit into your specious argument.

Thu 25 Jun 2020 2:44 AM by Bradekes

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Jun 2020 2:31 AM
So now we're going to pretend Shamans spec anything other than 27 cave for RvR, just to fit into your specious argument.

I'm still not sure what that has to do with OP. Shaman shouldn't be 40mend spec anyways.

Thu 25 Jun 2020 10:08 AM by watbrif

I always understood the warden as a true hybrid, a sort of nature's answer to the champion. As it is now, the warden is rather a poor man's druid with bladeturn stuck on it...

Thu 25 Jun 2020 11:33 AM by labra

I'd rather have a damage table up than a shield spec.
Protect is fine and could help melee warden in pve duties

Thu 25 Jun 2020 6:40 PM by Nephamael

I'd rather have a damage table up than a shield spec.
Protect is fine and could help melee warden in pve duties

I also don't hate the idea to NOT give wardens shieldspec.
But warden needs some other buffs instead, like +100-200 weaponskill (= you hit more = more dps)

Rght now warden is about 100 weaponskill below pala (with warden being 50 weapon spec) which feels real bad. For that reason wardens can't penetrate a fulltanks defense, neither for peel nor for dps and the low weaponskill is a big problem in PvE too.

Thu 25 Jun 2020 7:13 PM by The Skies Asunder

I have to agree that Warden needs shield spec, and additional spec points. Mythic added it way too late, and even said when they added it that they probably should have had it at launch. Even with shield spec, they could use a damage boost as well. Without ToA abilities and weapons, Warden can't kill anything in melee on its current damage table within any reasonable amount of time. Especially with the increased HP on Phoenix.

Thu 25 Jun 2020 9:36 PM by Azrael

The Skies Asunder wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Jun 2020 7:13 PM
Mythic added it way too late, and even said when they added it that they probably should have had it at launch.

What is your source? Dude, trust me?
If warden would get more spec points and shield spec it would prolly destroy 8man meta (again?!?). (if you dont change other things for the other two realms too)

Thu 25 Jun 2020 9:42 PM by Forlornhope

Azrael wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Jun 2020 9:36 PM
The Skies Asunder wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Jun 2020 7:13 PM
Mythic added it way too late, and even said when they added it that they probably should have had it at launch.

What is your source? Dude, trust me?
If warden would get more spec points and shield spec it would prolly destroy 8man meta. (if you dont change other things for the other two realms too)

Honestly, 8man meta could probably use some tweaking. Regardless of if they were to change wardens up or not. Would open up more options for different classes and you'd stop seeing the same few set ups constantly.

Thu 25 Jun 2020 9:53 PM by The Skies Asunder

Azrael wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Jun 2020 9:36 PM
The Skies Asunder wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Jun 2020 7:13 PM
Mythic added it way too late, and even said when they added it that they probably should have had it at launch.

What is your source? Dude, trust me?
If warden would get more spec points and shield spec it would prolly destroy 8man meta (again?!?). (if you dont change other things for the other two realms too)

It was one of the devs in a question thread at the time, Maybe Mark Jacobs. I tried to look for it, but I can't seem to find it now. Honestly though just doing something simply because Mythic did it is obviously not a good argument, so I retract that portion of the statement. Though I believe it to be true. I don't think it would shake things up in the 8v8 scene that much overall. It would obviously make some sort of change to their role, but the biggest change would come in small man, and solo.

Thu 25 Jun 2020 10:30 PM by Bradekes

I'm not so much concerned of the method or path Phoenix takes in this goal, but warden needs to be at the exact combat capacity as a friar. Through defense,offense, some other factor idc... it's just sad that it isn't even considered in the slightest by them as an issue.

In my eyes they've worked very hard to get friar on the same level as warden support wise but haven't done a thing to get warden on the same level as friar combat wise

Fri 26 Jun 2020 2:24 AM by Nephamael

I'm not so much concerned of the method or path Phoenix takes in this goal, but warden needs to be at the exact combat capacity as a friar. Through defense,offense, some other factor idc... it's just sad that it isn't even considered in the slightest by them as an issue.

In my eyes they've worked very hard to get friar on the same level as warden support wise but haven't done a thing to get warden on the same level as friar combat wise

actually warden could still use a spec grpheal for 8v8 (like bard gets it) - even tho that would imo buff warden slightly over friars support power, as warden has pbt and friar just grp hot (the char planer tells me friar has no grp specheal either, which he should also have imo - friar is still on my to play list but i didn't test it yet)

A grp specheal can't compete with a spreadheal, but still have a real impact in comparison to the base grpheal. Giving it to warden, friar and sham would mostly be a QOL patch for those classes and not a big buff with a huge outside zerg impact.

And in zerg healer classes are often desperately searched, so having another grp spechealer class for each realm would also improve the felt qol in the zergs without touching the balance of the 3 zergs at all. At worst it would strengthen mid a little, as shams are the most played of those 3 classes (with a low mend standard spec tho) and when considering the realmmaps shape of the last month that might not even hurt.

Mon 29 Jun 2020 2:59 PM by Nephamael

If the DEVs don't wanna touch wardens weak offensive potential for 8v8 they could also give it a str/c selfbuff, but then the weaponskill not only in 8v8 but also in PvE would still remain 2 low.

Mon 29 Jun 2020 7:59 PM by pollojack

Just give them numb. They become the perfect peel bot then.

Sun 5 Jul 2020 8:25 PM by Bradekes

Could give them MoBlocking as they level up a melee skill, much like stealthers automatically get MoS while leveling stealth. That way they don't have shield spec and cannot guard or slam.

Wed 8 Jul 2020 6:26 PM by Nephamael

I'd love to see a small statement by the @DEVs if there's anything in the plans.

The most famous melee warden Crystaa left again after seeing warden is still weak as a critter and to be honest i am about to mothball my Lareya as well. Just can't win more than 10% of my fights nowadays, even if i play absolutely flawless.

All other melee wardens i've seen for a day or two stopped again cause they couldn't win anything.

Wed 8 Jul 2020 7:11 PM by Bradekes

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Jul 2020 6:26 PM
I'd love to see a small statement by the @DEVs if there's anything in the plans.

The most famous melee warden Crystaa left again after seeing warden is still weak as a critter and to be honest i am about to mothball my Lareya as well. Just can't win more than 10% of my fights nowadays, even if i play absolutely flawless.

All other melee wardens i've seen for a day or two stopped again cause they couldn't win anything.

They've already stated they have no plans for warden. Not sure how they can't see the absolute hypocrisy with them buffing friars and leaving warden behind. I canned my melee warden quite awhile back. There have been multiple threads on this, and I think nothing gets done because the threads have been posted so far apart from each other.

They claim they only adjusted friar to make them more group friendly but they buffed their melee? They had more than just groupability in mind. They highly favor alb while they did do a good job of toning down minstrels tho.

Wed 8 Jul 2020 9:58 PM by gromet12

Should get a 99% "snare" which is a root an anytime style so you can just "snare" then run to heal

Wed 8 Jul 2020 11:20 PM by Nephamael

They claim they only adjusted friar to make them more group friendly but they buffed their melee?

Imo friars are in a great shape, they aren't weak and neither op. Viable for 8v8 and 1v1.

Why not just do the same for warden, all it needs is +150 weaponskill, i am not even asking for shieldspec.
2h or dual wield reduce enemy defense, warden has to work off 1h/shield without shieldspec, so i think getting weaponskill buffed isn't a unfair ask. Warden will still be the underdog vs 75% of the matchups after +150 weaponskill, but if rng is in your favor you might win a fight here and there.

Wed 8 Jul 2020 11:21 PM by Nephamael

Should get a 99% "snare" which is a root an anytime style so you can just "snare" then run to heal

please not ^^ i played solo scout for a while, kiting for 5 minutes... it's mostly annoying for both you and your opponent ^^

Wed 8 Jul 2020 11:38 PM by gromet12

Nephamael wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Jul 2020 11:20 PM
They claim they only adjusted friar to make them more group friendly but they buffed their melee?

Imo friars are in a great shape, they aren't weak and neither op. Viable for 8v8 and 1v1.

Why not just do the same for warden, all it needs is +150 weaponskill, i am not even asking for shieldspec.
2h or dual wield reduce enemy defense, warden has to work off 1h/shield without shieldspec, so i think getting weaponskill buffed isn't a unfair ask. Warden will still be the underdog vs 75% of the matchups after +150 weaponskill, but if rng is in your favor you might win a fight here and there.

You could ask for 10k weaponskill and it won’t matter; weaponskill as a number does nothing for dmg or defense penetration; it’s simply a UI number. You want to move from dmg factor 18 to something higher, Friars went to 20 along with paladins (the special realm) so I would shot for that. This again doesn’t increase your dmg that much, as an example same spec same weapon skald vs warrior; using same str stat, my warrior did 18% more dmg than the skald on the same styles, it was very linear other than some .xx difference. When I added the skalds dmg add and available DD x2 every 15secs the skald out damages the warrior. The skald is on factor 19 with most melee hybrids (healer hybrids on 18), and the warrior is highest in game at 23 (yet out damaged by every hybrid melee). Being a warden doesn’t get a specialized high GR weapon line (like mini/skald with no shield spec) but lacks any magic dmg to augment dmg and Hib needing specialized 2hand lines; adding more melee dmg isn’t going to help without adding DD procs or something to the styles, and that is a far cry from what Wardens ever had. If the class was in alb I would expect it to already be buffed to the best solo class around

Thu 9 Jul 2020 12:30 AM by Bradekes

Friar & paladin on 21 table. Warden is very low at 18, should be 20 atleast if not 21 to match

http://web.archive.org/web/20191202023301/http://playphoenix.wiki/albion-class-changes/

Thu 9 Jul 2020 4:19 PM by gromet12

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Jul 2020 12:30 AM
Friar & paladin on 21 table. Warden is very low at 18, should be 20 atleast if not 21 to match

http://web.archive.org/web/20191202023301/http://playphoenix.wiki/albion-class-changes/

I agree but where do you stop? What about all the classes on 18-19, what was given in compensation to the classes on 21-23 as more hybrids started joining the tables? To me they fubared the balance then claim "its all about group play" while buffing the paladin/friar/thane and leaving the rest the same. Some classes are playing 1.65, others are playing in a completely different game with tools/abilities they shouldn't have

Thu 9 Jul 2020 4:31 PM by Bradekes

gromet12 wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Jul 2020 4:19 PM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Jul 2020 12:30 AM
Friar & paladin on 21 table. Warden is very low at 18, should be 20 atleast if not 21 to match

http://web.archive.org/web/20191202023301/http://playphoenix.wiki/albion-class-changes/

I agree but where do you stop? What about all the classes on 18-19, what was given in compensation to the classes on 21-23 as more hybrids started joining the tables? To me they fubared the balance then claim "its all about group play" while buffing the paladin/friar/thane and leaving the rest the same. Some classes are playing 1.65, others are playing in a completely different game with tools/abilities they shouldn't have

I can see your opinion as this is what the general daoc population might think too. But everyone needs to understand that warden have no ranged interrupt much like tanks/light tank that are on higher damage table. Friar and pala atleast have instant ranged taunt to interrupt casters and have high dmg. Warden should be compensated in some way for all the short comings they have as a combat class.

Shield spec on paladin is going to block way more hits for the pala+guarded target than PBT will for the warden himself. Just like evade 5 will evade more than pbt will block hits for the warden himself. I would say higher yielded damage for when a warden actually makes it into melee is comparable.

Either get warden on same page as friar/pala or put pala/friar back to the way they were melee wise.

Thu 9 Jul 2020 4:53 PM by Blitze

Be careful what you wish for. The Warden is significantly more popular than Friars and Paladins.

I agree though wardens do need a little melee help.

Also very very few people would suggest a nerf to paladins as they are the least popular RvR class!

Thu 9 Jul 2020 5:07 PM by Bradekes

Blitze wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Jul 2020 4:53 PM
Be careful what you wish for. The Warden is significantly more popular than Friars and Paladins.

I agree though wardens do need a little melee help.

Also very very few people would suggest a nerf to paladins as they are the least popular RvR class!

Returning a class to what it was isn't really a nerf so much as removing a buff but I do want to keep paladin the way they are now, it is a solid class atm. I know warden are popular, but they are popular as support spec, which I am assuming friar are now more popular for their support and not really their melee.

I have a hard time thinking wardens getting a melee buff is really going to change anything in the 8v8 game as even a high dps warden isn't going to change it's spot in 8mans. It will just make them balanced for smallman/ solo.

I would expect a rise in wardens though as many people really loved their melee wardens as it was a fun class to play.

The biggest issue is the devs not wanting to adjust this class when there's nearly no rebuttal from the forum users that warden could atleast use a bit of love for their combat.

Thu 9 Jul 2020 6:25 PM by Nephamael

Either get warden on same page as friar/pala or put pala/friar back to the way they were melee wise.

Noone wants Friars or palas to be nerfed, they are perfectly balanced for 1.65 with their current buffs.

All we need is the same necessary adjustments for warden.

And probably for a couple more classes, like nature druid (double dot value), bard (2nd dd, upp melee dps).

Thu 9 Jul 2020 6:25 PM by Nephamael

Friar & paladin on 21 table. Warden is very low at 18, should be 20 atleast if not 21 to match

http://web.archive.org/web/20191202023301/http://playphoenix.wiki/albion-class-changes/

why not put warden on 21, after all friar has 2h and pala shield, warden has neither