Anybody have before/after numbers for Perforate Artery?

If I'd known the changes were going in today, I'd have gathered some "before" numbers for PA. But now that they're in, I can't do any comparisons of before/after with different specs. Does anybody have such numbers?

Fri 19 Jun 2020 5:20 PM by ColdHands

Today i was 3 shot on a rr9 bard with 2100+hp.

Fri 19 Jun 2020 5:26 PM by Delegator

Thanks, but I'm really wondering more like what the specs are at which PA damage increases or decreases, and by how much, compared to yesterday. For all we know, the same assassin could have three-shot you yesterday as well.

Fri 19 Jun 2020 6:20 PM by Delegator

Comparative numbers:

RR5 SB with 39 CS, 40 sword, 40 LA. Aug STR 2, 5.3 speed 2-handed weapon
RR6 Hunter with 40 archery, Aug Dex 4, 5.0 speed bow

Same target, a 50 healer (so, slash resistant thrust vulnerable)

Perforate artery:
- two-handed 372
- dual wield: ~245 main hand + 72 left hand

Crit Shot with slash arrow: 432
Crit Shot with thrust arrow: 560

So...PA does significantly less damage on a slower weapon, requires melee range and front angle. Crit shot does more damage, from any angle, stealthed or not, and I can choose my damage type based on target.

Looks to me like the PA changes did little or nothing useful.

Fri 19 Jun 2020 6:22 PM by Delegator

Just some more data, same SB on the dummies:

Perforate artery: 371
Creeping Death: 195
Stunning Stab: 205

Garrote: 170

So...the third style in a positional stealth-only chain does 20% more than an anytime style? OK, one has a bleed the other a snare...hard to compare those, but...???

Definitely gonna park my SB until I see what kind of new disasters the style changes bring. Between the 4-style evade chain and the 3-style frontal stealth chain, CS is going to be vastly changed anyway I guess.

Fri 19 Jun 2020 6:46 PM by inoeth

Delegator wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 6:20 PM
Comparative numbers:

RR5 SB with 39 CS, 40 sword, 40 LA. Aug STR 2, 5.3 speed 2-handed weapon
RR6 Hunter with 40 archery, Aug Dex 4, 5.0 speed bow

Same target, a 50 healer (so, slash resistant thrust vulnerable)

Perforate artery:
- two-handed 372
- dual wield: ~245 main hand + 72 left hand

Crit Shot with slash arrow: 432
Crit Shot with thrust arrow: 560

So...PA does significantly less damage on a slower weapon, requires melee range and front angle. Crit shot does more damage, from any angle, stealthed or not, and I can choose my damage type based on target.

Looks to me like the PA changes did little or nothing useful.

maybe get a proper spec? 40 sword lul

Fri 19 Jun 2020 7:02 PM by Saroi

Delegator wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 6:20 PM
Comparative numbers:

RR5 SB with 39 CS, 40 sword, 40 LA. Aug STR 2, 5.3 speed 2-handed weapon
RR6 Hunter with 40 archery, Aug Dex 4, 5.0 speed bow

Same target, a 50 healer (so, slash resistant thrust vulnerable)

Perforate artery:
- two-handed 372
- dual wield: ~245 main hand + 72 left hand

Crit Shot with slash arrow: 432
Crit Shot with thrust arrow: 560

So...PA does significantly less damage on a slower weapon, requires melee range and front angle. Crit shot does more damage, from any angle, stealthed or not, and I can choose my damage type based on target.

Looks to me like the PA changes did little or nothing useful.

You have to consider that ws/con poison hits before PA now. Seeing 100 con reduction on a target, as for tanks they will lose around 500+ HP, other targets are like 400-450 HP.

So if you hit for 300 PA, and have 450 HP reduced from ws/con debuff before PA, you practically do 750 HP. I did some fighting today and everytimg I PA'd a caster they lost atleast half of their HP.

Fri 19 Jun 2020 7:43 PM by joshisanonymous

Delegator wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 6:20 PM
Comparative numbers:

RR5 SB with 39 CS, 40 sword, 40 LA. Aug STR 2, 5.3 speed 2-handed weapon
RR6 Hunter with 40 archery, Aug Dex 4, 5.0 speed bow

Same target, a 50 healer (so, slash resistant thrust vulnerable)

Perforate artery:
- two-handed 372
- dual wield: ~245 main hand + 72 left hand

Crit Shot with slash arrow: 432
Crit Shot with thrust arrow: 560

So...PA does significantly less damage on a slower weapon, requires melee range and front angle. Crit shot does more damage, from any angle, stealthed or not, and I can choose my damage type based on target.

Looks to me like the PA changes did little or nothing useful.

No idea if the changes are good or bad, but I don't think it makes much sense to compare PA to Crit Shot. You can PA other stealthers, but you can't Crit Shot someone who's stealthed unless they're asleep. You can also pretty much just walk away from someone who's shooting you with arrows, but it can be hard to impossible to get away from someone who just PA'd you. PAs also come with a bunch of poisons typically, whereas the best you can do in that department with Crit Shot is hope that your bow procs.

It would be good to get more numbers for PA chains, though.

Sun 21 Jun 2020 11:19 PM by Gohanssj

the changes are a massive assassin boost,

The con hitting first is huge, means you're actual dmg is 700-1000 not the 300 to 600 people are complaining about with PA,

The PA dmg boost is small, but still a boost, and again when combined with the new poisen mechanics theyre crazy damage.

Stack bleeds also means you're doing 80 odd dot from poisen and another 40ish from bleeds, like having viper 2 for free.

3 boosts with probaly a 4th this week with style changes to a class that really people don't need to be encouraged to play. If you can't win your 1v1s with assassins being possibly the strongest comparatively they have ever been then you need to stop playing them.... please please stop playing them and roll real toons

Mon 22 Jun 2020 6:34 AM by WildWilbur

Gohanssj wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Jun 2020 11:19 PM
the changes are a massive assassin boost,

The con hitting first is huge, means you're actual dmg is 700-1000 not the 300 to 600 people are complaining about with PA,

The PA dmg boost is small, but still a boost, and again when combined with the new poisen mechanics theyre crazy damage.

Stack bleeds also means you're doing 80 odd dot from poisen and another 40ish from bleeds, like having viper 2 for free.

3 boosts with probaly a 4th this week with style changes to a class that really people don't need to be encouraged to play. If you can't win your 1v1s with assassins being possibly the strongest comparatively they have ever been then you need to stop playing them.... please please stop playing them and roll real toons

Lol, right, another expert. Maybe the "a class that really people don't need to be encouraged to play" is your real problem?

Mon 22 Jun 2020 8:12 AM by Wasa

I noticed an decrease of CS damage

CS = 41

PA and Garotte does significant less damage (arround 7%) and BS2 only a bit fewer (arround 3-4%).

Did several tests some weeks ago on Dumies and last Friday again, after the changes applied. Same Spec, Str Relic to Mid.

/shrug

Mon 22 Jun 2020 10:02 AM by Gohanssj

@Wilber

No, it's just facts, do /u at any given time are there are plenty of stealthers on, they clearly don't need a boost, and you don't have to be an expert to understand basic game mechanics, just a retard not to ^^

Mon 22 Jun 2020 12:45 PM by Norhir

PA damage had no significant increase, the only real difference is the WS/Con debuff being seperate now.

Test performed on a RR5 SB (2136HP) by a RR6 SB (55CS composite):

Pre-Patch PA average 340 dmg
(Offhand hit 40 dmg)
Post-Patch average 380 dmg
(Offhand hit 40 dmg)
So that's an increase of 40 dmg on a slash vulnerable target.

The target got dropped to about 75% HP overall on average ( 10 tries).

75% of 2136HP is 1602HP
- PA Main 380dmg + Offhand 40 dmg = 420 dmg
- Con debuff 134 HP - that's about 6.4% of the full HP

So I dont know how the con debuff works exactly, but it does not debuff straight up 100 con nor straight up 10% HP.

Happy to test this again if anybody is interested.

I had some encounters were I was able to get my target to 50% HP after the PA 3 chain, all were on leather or cloth. Some unbuffed rr3 caster I even got down to 20% and he only needed one more style to finish it. You can feel the difference against soft targets and to me, that's how it should be, against all else the roughly 10% more through the debuff are there, but that's it.
So if I read about someone being 3 shoted on his bard, I have to say that's either a lie or you got dmg from a different source, because I can not see how that should be possible.

Best regards

Mon 22 Jun 2020 1:22 PM by Saroi

Norhir wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Jun 2020 12:45 PM
PA damage had no significant increase, the only real difference is the WS/Con debuff being seperate now.

Test performed on a RR5 SB (2136HP) by a RR6 SB (55CS composite):

Pre-Patch PA average 340 dmg
(Offhand hit 40 dmg)
Post-Patch average 380 dmg
(Offhand hit 40 dmg)
So that's an increase of 40 dmg on a slash vulnerable target.

The target got dropped to about 75% HP overall on average ( 10 tries).

75% of 2136HP is 1602HP
- PA Main 380dmg + Offhand 40 dmg = 420 dmg
- Con debuff 134 HP - that's about 6.4% of the full HP

So I dont know how the con debuff works exactly, but it does not debuff straight up 100 con nor straight up 10% HP.

Happy to test this again if anybody is interested.

You are calculating it wrong though. 75% HP showing is after the ws/con debuff with the lower max health. the poison reduces con by 100. That is 449 HP on SB.

So you need to calculate -449 Hp from con debuff, then -380 PA + 40 offhand. This you can also see with the numbers.
2136 max HP - 449hp debuff = 1687 HP left. 1687 - 420 damage = 1267HP which is around 75% HP from 1687 max HP.

Mon 22 Jun 2020 2:08 PM by Norhir

Saroi wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Jun 2020 1:22 PM
Norhir wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Jun 2020 12:45 PM
PA damage had no significant increase, the only real difference is the WS/Con debuff being seperate now.

Test performed on a RR5 SB (2136HP) by a RR6 SB (55CS composite):

Pre-Patch PA average 340 dmg
(Offhand hit 40 dmg)
Post-Patch average 380 dmg
(Offhand hit 40 dmg)
So that's an increase of 40 dmg on a slash vulnerable target.

The target got dropped to about 75% HP overall on average ( 10 tries).

75% of 2136HP is 1602HP
- PA Main 380dmg + Offhand 40 dmg = 420 dmg
- Con debuff 134 HP - that's about 6.4% of the full HP

So I dont know how the con debuff works exactly, but it does not debuff straight up 100 con nor straight up 10% HP.

Happy to test this again if anybody is interested.

You are calculating it wrong though. 75% HP showing is after the ws/con debuff with the lower max health. the poison reduces con by 100. That is 449 HP on SB.

So you need to calculate -449 Hp from con debuff, then -380 PA + 40 offhand. This you can also see with the numbers.
2136 max HP - 449hp debuff = 1687 HP left. 1687 - 420 damage = 1267HP which is around 75% HP from 1687 max HP.

That fits the numbers. So maybe the con debuff needs some adjustment, which would then end up in a higher disadvantage if you can not open with, or miss the crit style. I dont know, it didnt feel extremly strong against anything except casters... and I think casters should be the ones with the lowest chance to come out on top after a sin successfully landed a critstyle chain.

Mon 22 Jun 2020 2:22 PM by Saroi

Norhir wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Jun 2020 2:08 PM
That fits the numbers. So maybe the con debuff needs some adjustment, which would then end up in a higher disadvantage if you can not open with, or miss the crit style. I dont know, it didnt feel extremly strong against anything except casters... and I think casters should be the ones with the lowest chance to come out on top after a sin successfully landed a critstyle chain.

Well having 1267 HP after PA with ws/con debuff is pretty much good damage in my opinion if you compare that to the normal 2136 max health. I have been able to kill rr5 friar with PA chain + Garotte and Achilles, meaning 5 hits and 6 hits for minstrel without purge.

The only real downside is if you miss PA or ws/con debuff gets resisted than you have lower health reduction than before.

This can somewhat be prevented by also using ws/con debuff on offhand. The offhand hits before PA damage. Grün wrote that the 100ms delay only affects the style so offhand is not affected and looking at my PA tests with Naas it seems to be that way.