Instance Completion XP Bonus Change

It was a pretty big mistake early on to have the instance bonus grow by 1% per each completion without any scaling or cap and we were discussing since months what to do about it.

The new system leaves it untouched until 100% which covers the vast majority of players / groups, however, players that frequently run the instances and especially when those people group with other people that frequently run those instances will see a noticeable decrease.

The instance completion xp bonus now requires more completions after 100% per additional %
Every 100% bonus the completion requirements for the next % grow by 1, Example: after reaching 100% bonus, each additional bonus requires 2 completions until 200% where each additional % requires 3 completions etc.
In groups this new system works on the total sum of all instance completions of the group members, e. g. one with 50, one with 100, one with 200 completions is the same as one with 350 completions

At the same time we will introduce a new player group bonus:
Until you have a level 50 character on your account, the character with the most experience on your account provides a stacking 25% xp bonus to your group and yourself while you are in a group.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 9:19 AM by Bumblina

Are those who have already earned their xp bonus, Going to have their current xp bonus reduced?

Could you also please kindly explain what you mean by the 350% comment. I am not understanding it apart from mathematically 50, 100 and 200 obviously adds up to 350. *blush*

Wed 17 Jun 2020 9:23 AM by

gruenesschaf

Bumblina wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 9:19 AM
Are those who have already earned their xp bonus, Going to have their current xp bonus reduced?

Could you also please kindly explain what you mean by the 350% comment. I am not understanding it apart from mathematically 50, 100 and 200 obviously adds up to 350. *blush*

Yes it will affect everyone.

As for the second part:
There were 2 choices, 1 choice would have applied this new mechanic to every group member and then add the resulting bonus % at the end, so if you are grouped with 8 people each having exactly 100 completions that would result in 800% bonus. The other choice, the one we went with, is that the system applies on the sum of completions, 800 in this example, resulting in a 350% bonus at the end.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 9:30 AM by LatrommiSumac

No voting on this? Kind of sucks for people who run it explicitly for the instance bonus.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 9:41 AM by gotwqqd

LatrommiSumac wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 9:30 AM
No voting on this? Kind of sucks for people who run it explicitly for the instance bonus.

Like the people that run it are going to vote to nerf themselves...

Wed 17 Jun 2020 9:52 AM by Bumblina

People do everything in the game to help themselves. Stop talking daft

Everything is voted on because it suits you or doesnt suit you. It is he way of the world

However, this bonus also helps everyone in the group and not just the solo person. If that person decides to share the bonus.

My 510+ (I think its that now) bonus is something that i worked hard on and i am happy to share in a group. Although currently, I don't plan on levelling another character (yet).

There are not many of us with high bonuses like mine. Particularly as high as mine. I could name two maybe?

So you are punishing me for putting the hours into PVE where others havent. That is unfair. This game isnt just RVR. And as seems to be a regular occurence, you change the none RVR side fo the game for the negative. (HoH and DS/Crafting for example) If it wasn't for the people who likes PVE/Crafting, you wouldn't get people out into RVR, templated and ready for action. etc.

So not only are you reducing my xp bonus, which is not right to do, after it has already been earned, you are also reducing my individual strength within a group, should I choose to join it. So hitting me twice on the strength of my XP bonus that I have already earned.

This is like saying to RR12, you have earned your RR too quickly and we are reduing you down to a RR6 and if you group with someone, who is a lower RR than you, you will be nerfed to an average RR to suit. So in a lower RR group avergage you might only be a RR4. ENJOY!

Wed 17 Jun 2020 9:59 AM by gotwqqd

Bumblina wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 9:52 AM
People do everything in the game to help themselves. Stop talking daft Everything is voted on because it suits you or doesnt suit you. It is he way of the world

However, this bonus also helps everyone in the group and not just the solo person. If that person decides to share the bonus.

My 510+ (I think its that now) bonus is something that i worked hard on and i am happy to share in a group. Although currently, I don't plan on levelling another character (yet).

There are not many of us with high bonuses like mine. Particularly as high as mine. I could name two maybe?

So you are punishing me for putting the hours into PVE where others havent. That is unfair. This game isnt just RVR. And as seems to be a regular occurence, you change the none RVR side fo the game for the negative. (HoH and DS/Crafting for example) If it wasn't for the people who likes PVE/Crafting, you wouldn't get people out into RVR, templated and ready for action. etc.

So not only are you reducing my xp bonus, which is not right to do, after it has already been earned, you are also reducing my individual strength within a group, should I choose to join it. So hitting me twice on the strength of my XP bonus that I have already earned.

This is like saying to RR12, you have earned your RR too quickly and we are reduing you down to a RR6 and if you group with someone, who is a lower RR than you, you will be nerfed to an average RR to suit. So in a lower RR group avergage you might only be a RR4. ENJOY!

You’ll still have higher bonus than anyone else

Wed 17 Jun 2020 10:02 AM by Centenario

I think the issue is PL groups and PL services. The GMs have to work against that, they don't want to ruin your achievments.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 10:06 AM by Bumblina

But are going to do so anyway.....

Wed 17 Jun 2020 10:52 AM by FunusGaming

I am not sure what to say about this change. I like the idea of making it harder, but also taking away the achievements from single persons and equalizing it by applying the system over the total and not over the individual seems harsh to me. Personally the option one would be the one that wouldve gotten my vote.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 11:52 AM by keen

I was hoping for an adjustment for a while since these bonuses are absurd if you do the runs consistently. Good change even though my ds toon was just about getting very active

well will take a while for 100 runs anyway.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 11:58 AM by keen

Bumblina wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 9:52 AM
However, this bonus also helps everyone in the group and not just the solo person. If that person decides to share the bonus.

Those absurd bonuses also have the potential to ruin the whole xp system. So be happy that you could use the super high bonus as long as you could. But this needed to be fixed to save the leveling on this server.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 12:08 PM by FunusGaming

Suggested change: Only have the xp bonus apply if you are within a certain levelrange of the highest of the group. This way it could still be used to PL a friend, but you can no longer buy a leechspot with it?

Wed 17 Jun 2020 12:11 PM by Ceen

Suprise suprise.
It was obvious that this system would run out of control at some point.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 12:30 PM by fardorg

I don't like this at all. People that run DS/HoH to get these bonuses are PVEing during those times instead of leveling. Once they have these higher bonuses to grind on a new toon in PVE is meh. It also helps the new player base if they join a guild and people in the guild help that player out. I am not one with 700%, but imagine those players that have done DS/HoH that many times and they get this reduction, it's like a slap in the face imho. Just my $0.02 .

Wed 17 Jun 2020 1:18 PM by Soukou

Wow.....

This is a massive slap in the face for people who busted thier butt to get a high % bonus.

I only have like 20 and would vote NO to this nerf.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 5:11 PM by Tyrlaan

Ceen wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 12:11 PM
Suprise suprise.
It was obvious that this system would run out of control at some point.

This. It was stupid to begin with and very foreseeable to totally screw over PvE xp bonuses. Single to lower double digit bonuses for classes or being underpopulated, 50/100/150/200% bonuses for going to specific mob camps but stacking (up to 8x) and uncapped xp bonuses from DS, resulting in 1000+% DS xp bonus groups... whoever did 100+ DS runs hardly did it for acquiring xp bonus.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 5:18 PM by Nephamael

I can just strongly recommend not making this change.
Xping fast is the best way to get people into lvl50 RvR fast.

I recommend to give new players huge XP bonuses instead, so they can compete with the existing players bonuses, like 100% bonus xp for everyone in grp, per player without a lvl50 in group, 50% bonus for a player with 1 lvl50, 25% for a player with 2 lvl50s and so on.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 5:21 PM by Nephamael

Also a way to keep XPing superfast (wich is great) like now would be to add up the bonuses and have the cap apply for the grp before the reduction.

So 100% instance bonus per grpmember.

Example:
A group has 500% combined inst bonus = they get 500% inst bonus.

A group has 1000% combined inst bonus = they get 900% inst bonus (800% untouched + 200%/2)

-
To be honest, an average group doesn't hit more than 300% usually anyway.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 8:35 PM by LatrommiSumac

Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 5:11 PM
Ceen wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 12:11 PM
Suprise suprise.
It was obvious that this system would run out of control at some point.

This. It was stupid to begin with and very foreseeable to totally screw over PvE xp bonuses. Single to lower double digit bonuses for classes or being underpopulated, 50/100/150/200% bonuses for going to specific mob camps but stacking (up to 8x) and uncapped xp bonuses from DS, resulting in 1000+% DS xp bonus groups... whoever did 100+ DS runs hardly did it for acquiring xp bonus.

You know what happens when you assume... I really doubt the people sitting on a couple million feathers are doing DS for loot. Most of the top DS people I run with are in fact ONLY doing it for the XP bonus so you are entirely wrong about that. For me personally DS bonus is like being high RR, it's easier to spam and get in groups and there is a wow factor when you join an xp group and say you're 300 DS, much like saying you're rr10. I agree with previous post stating this is similar to nerfing someone's realm rank. We spent a ton of time grinding for DS bonus which we could have spent grinding RPs instead. I've only played phoenix since the shelter in place and when i discovered there was a permanent bonus for PVE content much like RvR I was pretty excited and did all I can to make sure I can grind that bonus.

I'm not going to whine and pretend like this will kill the game (it won't) and Phoenix is by far the best free shard I've had the privilege of playing. I think Devs/GMs always have hard choices to make I respect and appreciate them for their time so the rest of us have something to enjoy. I know for a fact there is a hardcore albeit small population of Darkspire runners that do it at least several times a day and will most likely continue to do so regardless, so I hope we can at least put it to a vote like most other (non bug) issues we've come across as a community. At least in a vote it will leave (most of) us satisfied that it's the communitys decision =).

Edit: I wanted to add that there were many abuses for getting 2 million rps a week early on in server and the people who earned their RPs didn't have it retroactively taken away either.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 9:28 PM by Tyrlaan

LatrommiSumac wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 8:35 PM
Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 5:11 PM
Ceen wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 12:11 PM
Suprise suprise.
It was obvious that this system would run out of control at some point.

This. It was stupid to begin with and very foreseeable to totally screw over PvE xp bonuses. Single to lower double digit bonuses for classes or being underpopulated, 50/100/150/200% bonuses for going to specific mob camps but stacking (up to 8x) and uncapped xp bonuses from DS, resulting in 1000+% DS xp bonus groups... whoever did 100+ DS runs hardly did it for acquiring xp bonus.

You know what happens when you assume... I really doubt the people sitting on a couple million feathers are doing DS for loot. Most of the top DS people I run with are in fact ONLY doing it for the XP bonus so you are entirely wrong about that. For me personally DS bonus is like being high RR, it's easier to spam and get in groups and there is a wow factor when you join an xp group and say you're 300 DS, much like saying you're rr10. I agree with previous post stating this is similar to nerfing someone's realm rank. We spent a ton of time grinding for DS bonus which we could have spent grinding RPs instead. I've only played phoenix since the shelter in place and when i discovered there was a permanent bonus for PVE content much like RvR I was pretty excited and did all I can to make sure I can grind that bonus.

I'm not going to whine and pretend like this will kill the game (it won't) and Phoenix is by far the best free shard I've had the privilege of playing. I think Devs/GMs always have hard choices to make I respect and appreciate them for their time so the rest of us have something to enjoy. I know for a fact there is a hardcore albeit small population of Darkspire runners that do it at least several times a day and will most likely continue to do so regardless, so I hope we can at least put it to a vote like most other (non bug) issues we've come across as a community. At least in a vote it will leave (most of) us satisfied that it's the communitys decision =).

Edit: I wanted to add that there were many abuses for getting 2 million rps a week early on in server and the people who earned their RPs didn't have it retroactively taken away either.

In the time you spend getting that 1% you could have gotten a couple levels on some character. I don´t know how many hundred characters you expect to benefit from every 1% for a DS run but it is and always has been time to spend getting feathers and ROGs, i.e. farming, with some bonus on top which was stupid from the get go, bound to diminish all other bonuses to xp (like social, camp, mob, pot or guild bonuses).

Btw. people do have a couple millions of feathers exactly because they maximized feather gain with DS or HoH runs. But fear not, you will keep your feathers. I feel sorry for you though for daily speed running some instance to kill the same mobs over and over when you could have spend your time playing in RvR.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 9:37 PM by JUSTNSANE

Leveling in general was easy to begin with. When they changed the tasks it made it a longer process to get 50. I for one have not spent more than 24 hours on a soloing to get 50 thats before i had a ds/hoh bonus. If your position is to remove powerleveling services how about just make it banneable? I once had clockwork come see me because I used the chester in a wrong manner but I see people doing the same still? They will do whatever they choose fit as I see it but, would like some reasoning behind it. Its not because the people with ds bonus arent going to level a character by all means. I have leveled so many toons its pathetic. Honestly the random xp bonus mob are the most ridiculous thing in the game. Groups are formed, groups dont know where to go, they chase the bonus xp mobs for task, they cannot find it group disassembles. It was easier to find a decent xp mob and stick in that one spot. Is this reason to increase the time spent so more data mining can happen for more bit coin?

my two cents.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 11:34 PM by LatrommiSumac

Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 9:28 PM
LatrommiSumac wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 8:35 PM
Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 5:11 PM
This. It was stupid to begin with and very foreseeable to totally screw over PvE xp bonuses. Single to lower double digit bonuses for classes or being underpopulated, 50/100/150/200% bonuses for going to specific mob camps but stacking (up to 8x) and uncapped xp bonuses from DS, resulting in 1000+% DS xp bonus groups... whoever did 100+ DS runs hardly did it for acquiring xp bonus.

You know what happens when you assume... I really doubt the people sitting on a couple million feathers are doing DS for loot. Most of the top DS people I run with are in fact ONLY doing it for the XP bonus so you are entirely wrong about that. For me personally DS bonus is like being high RR, it's easier to spam and get in groups and there is a wow factor when you join an xp group and say you're 300 DS, much like saying you're rr10. I agree with previous post stating this is similar to nerfing someone's realm rank. We spent a ton of time grinding for DS bonus which we could have spent grinding RPs instead. I've only played phoenix since the shelter in place and when i discovered there was a permanent bonus for PVE content much like RvR I was pretty excited and did all I can to make sure I can grind that bonus.

I'm not going to whine and pretend like this will kill the game (it won't) and Phoenix is by far the best free shard I've had the privilege of playing. I think Devs/GMs always have hard choices to make I respect and appreciate them for their time so the rest of us have something to enjoy. I know for a fact there is a hardcore albeit small population of Darkspire runners that do it at least several times a day and will most likely continue to do so regardless, so I hope we can at least put it to a vote like most other (non bug) issues we've come across as a community. At least in a vote it will leave (most of) us satisfied that it's the communitys decision =).

Edit: I wanted to add that there were many abuses for getting 2 million rps a week early on in server and the people who earned their RPs didn't have it retroactively taken away either.

In the time you spend getting that 1% you could have gotten a couple levels on some character. I don´t know how many hundred characters you expect to benefit from every 1% for a DS run but it is and always has been time to spend getting feathers and ROGs, i.e. farming, with some bonus on top which was stupid from the get go, bound to diminish all other bonuses to xp (like social, camp, mob, pot or guild bonuses).

Btw. people do have a couple millions of feathers exactly because they maximized feather gain with DS or HoH runs. But fear not, you will keep your feathers. I feel sorry for you though for daily speed running some instance to kill the same mobs over and over when you could have spend your time playing in RvR.

It sounds like you're really bitter and angry about a lot of things. A good DS run takes 25 mins or even 20 if you run with the same people so "a couple levels" is relative and doesn't really apply. What you find stupid might be fun for other players, that is the point of an mmo; it's a community with other people. Instead of feeling sorry for me maybe ask yourself why you're playing a 20 year old game that's making you angry . No one is stopping you from RvRing when we're running DS. This is exactly why I'm asking for a vote on the issue, to see what the majority of players want, much like every other issue that has been voted on. If you get so upset at other players doing different things there are plenty of good RPGs out there for you to try

.

Thu 18 Jun 2020 12:24 AM by gotwqqd

Soukou wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 1:18 PM
Wow.....

This is a massive slap in the face for people who busted thier butt to get a high % bonus.

I only have like 20 and would vote NO to this nerf.

No
You will still be rewarded at level relative to others in how much time you put in

Thu 18 Jun 2020 4:51 AM by Jingo NZ

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 12:24 AM
Soukou wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 1:18 PM
Wow.....

This is a massive slap in the face for people who busted thier butt to get a high % bonus.

I only have like 20 and would vote NO to this nerf.

No
You will still be rewarded at level relative to others in how much time you put in

Agreed, and no one is going to delevel the toons that have already been levelled up with the high bonuses.

Thu 18 Jun 2020 7:57 AM by HibRanger

We got couple guys in Hibernia who just join groups for helping other ppl to level. Leveling now is OK and with DS bonus it is NICE. Why ruin it ? I run many DS runs to get my bonus so i can help other ppl to get levels for toons, so they can play anything they want.

Yes we make some nice groupps with 1800% bonus and leveling for FUN, we are freaking PVE Whores. Dont take it from us just for some reason.

The comment about RR was very very right, why dont make RR the same way, u got your rr11 now u are rr5 enjoy.

Ist boredom of staff what brings those Ideas to life? I mean who gonna make some tropubles out of leveling in this game after it is exceptionally nice to level now. Is it issue for Database storage of such amounts of chars? I mean only 3k ppl playing phoenix and only 5 of them have big DS bonus, why touch it at all ?

Thu 18 Jun 2020 10:59 AM by Bumblina

Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 9:28 PM
Btw. people do have a couple millions of feathers exactly because they maximized feather gain with DS or HoH runs. But fear not, you will keep your feathers. I feel sorry for you though for daily speed running some instance to kill the same mobs over and over when you could have spend your time playing in RvR.

And this was my point........... this game isnt just RVR. Its crafting, its PVE. Just because you like RVR, doesn't mean everyone else has too!

Thu 18 Jun 2020 11:20 AM by Bumblina

The retrospective "punishment" for the Devs not realising that this xp bonus would cause issues, is really not right or fair. I think something needs to be done. But to remove the bonus twice - ie nerf us singularly and nerf us again in a group is not the right way about it. I think that you should leave me with my FULL bonus when I am levelling on my own and only nerf the bonus somewhat when i am in the group setting. I am earned MY bonus. (If it is nerfed at all). We have earned our Xp bonus, by putting the woman/man hours in DS/HoH, the instance dungeons that you created. With varying reasons for doing so.

Some for the feathers.
Some for helping fellow realm mates get the experience.
Some for PVE fun.
Some for the Instance Bonus.
Some for the Sh*ts and giggles.
Some for the one off chance to buy the stones.
Some for all of the above.

Most regular runners for the Xp Bonus and/or feathers.

By removing the xp bonus restrospectively (which i might add, you didnt remove rps from the RVR players when you discovered that you had messed up the RP gains and changed that on the RVR players side of the game) you are being unfair to those who have already put in the hours.

This nerf is not going to stop people selling PLs as people think. I have seen people happily sell PLS with their 80% xp bonus.

I have never SOLD my xp bonus, though I have used it to get myself in a group or help my guild mates/friends to level somewhat .

Solution - leave people as they are - bring in the new rule from now then Devs get from this what they need. Just like you did with the RPs. Don't punish the PVE player as you didn't punish the RVR Players.

There are a couple of things that is likely to happen from this change if you make it how you want to:-

1) a few people will throw a strop - quit playing for a couple of days - come back and start playing again - not points proven- no shits given
2) people will move along - be unhappy, a bit disgruntled and Dev's will have spoilt a few relationships with the PVE side of the game again
3) a certain number of players, will go out to prove a point - hit DS/HoH like a juggernaught and in 2 months time, we will be in the same position just with 5 million feathers needing storage and everyone will have the 500-800 DS/HOH bonus again and Devs will be saying - well we didnt see this was going to happen lets nerf it again and we didnt expect that number of feathers to be about, lets nerf the feathers.

Or we could just leave it, change it as you want. Don't upset the loyal player base that is currently here.

Fri 19 Jun 2020 9:57 AM by Lunatishe

I agree, there must be something done to stop selling PL or ppl just want to go afk in grp with xxx amounts of DS bonus.

Great idea that was suggested earlier, just make the DS bonus count in group if the group level range is within i.e. 5 levels.
This would stop lvl 50‘s PL lowbies and would stop new lvl 1 with xxx% DS bonus join afk into a xp grp.

This would also leave the guys who have a great amount of DS bonus and want to xp solo.

I think this would be a fair change for all.

Fri 19 Jun 2020 10:20 AM by LatrommiSumac

Lunatishe wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 9:57 AM
I agree, there must be something done to stop selling PL or ppl just want to go afk in grp with xxx amounts of DS bonus.

Great idea that was suggested earlier, just make the DS bonus count in group if the group level range is within i.e. 5 levels.
This would stop lvl 50‘s PL lowbies and would stop new lvl 1 with xxx% DS bonus join afk into a xp grp.

This would also leave the guys who have a great amount of DS bonus and want to xp solo.

I think this would be a fair change for all.

Honestly there are more people doing 50+leech for pl then people doing DS bonus leech pls, at least in Hibernia. I think PL is always going to be a thing and has always been a thing since DAOC started.

If this truly is an unintended mistake then start the DS bonus nerf post patch leave the current alone. It's been mentioned again and again that the same broken RP tasks that people benefited millions of RPs from didn't get retroactively screwed so why are the DS bonuses getting a different treatment? There's not even a large amount of players with huge ds bonuses (I'm not even one of them) but it seems unfair to target those select few for their achievements and put their work/time to waste.

Sat 20 Jun 2020 6:20 AM by Kimahri

When does this go into effect?

Sat 20 Jun 2020 11:26 AM by Blevox

Doing it for feathers?

Sat 20 Jun 2020 7:46 PM by bluefalcon420

Blevox wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Jun 2020 11:26 AM
Doing it for feathers?

Wow, nerd alert lol

Sat 20 Jun 2020 11:18 PM by Centenario

Just use your feathers to buy Heart of legion and sidi chests, put them on market at 4p or lower (for the 20k ones and 3p or lower for the 15k ones.
You will sell them quick and empty the vault.
You and the buyers will be better off.

Thu 2 Jul 2020 5:52 PM by jbwooten89

This is one of those things that should have just been left alone.... :/

Fri 3 Jul 2020 1:57 PM by iamsaitam

It's quite amazing to see that the people against this, have no idea that the current system leads to even more focus on meta groups. If it wasn't already enough that a group be solely made of bombs/support and 1 tank, now you also need to have a high %DS bonus.. Please people, step out of your bubble.

Fri 3 Jul 2020 11:07 PM by chewchew

iamsaitam wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Jul 2020 1:57 PM
It's quite amazing to see that the people against this, have no idea that the current system leads to even more focus on meta groups. If it wasn't already enough that a group be solely made of bombs/support and 1 tank, now you also need to have a high %DS bonus.. Please people, step out of your bubble.

wrong, i wouldnt even join your stinky no-xp-bonus-group and only xp with other people who have high bonus you filthy casual