Minstrels - Phoenix Freeshard

Can we just take a peak at maybe tuning the charm a little more?

Scenario would be to make the mins release pet for a dmez / root

Mezzing / Rooting / Dps the pet causing re-charm to fail as its already engaged in combat.

- Minstrel could counter this with a Purge and still has access to pet / flute / insta stun + rupts and ofcourse sos when they about to die lol

Wed 10 Jun 2020 11:00 PM by borodino1812

I gave up, and so I'm leveling one. There will not be any meaningful downtune, so you might as well try one. Considering the numbers, I don't think I am the only one that is thinking this way.

Wed 10 Jun 2020 11:29 PM by Jingo NZ

What about "release immunity"? You can't release a pet for 1 minute after you have charmed it.

Thu 11 Jun 2020 4:37 AM by sleeve

I dont know I think you got to be subtle with a change not totaly fuck the class up. It's got to remain overpowered still

Thu 11 Jun 2020 6:01 AM by Noashakra

sleeve wrote: ↑
Thu 11 Jun 2020 4:37 AM
I dont know I think you got to be subtle with a change not totaly fuck the class up. It's got to remain overpowered still

Yeah, you gotta keep the class in a way that it still give the illusion to people they kill people because it's a "hard to play" class, and they roll on people because of their skill.

Thu 11 Jun 2020 1:18 PM by sleeve

I think it's worth a looking at and possibly put to a vote. The outcome would still be a strong solo / support class regardless

Fri 12 Jun 2020 7:39 AM by Sepplord

sleeve wrote: ↑
Thu 11 Jun 2020 1:18 PM
I think it's worth a looking at and possibly put to a vote. The outcome would still be a strong solo / support class regardless

worth looking at: yes

vote on it: no

Let's be honest with ourselves. Plenty of people would vote Yes on any nerf that nerfs "the other realm" or "not my class" regardless of balance.
Getting input from the playerbase is important but letting them decide every detail just leads to chaos and in the end a really shitty game

Fri 12 Jun 2020 9:20 AM by sleeve

Yeah that's understandable. How to get the Dev's attention over this?

Fri 12 Jun 2020 11:54 AM by Neso

By providing balanced, unbiased and knowledgeble discussion for change, supported by numbers and experience.

... or spam the forums with knee-jerk whine posts because you died in an rvr zone and want class/ability X deleted from the game.
"The squeaky wheel gets the grease" mentality

(Aimed more at the recent nerf X topics)

Fri 12 Jun 2020 1:52 PM by dbeattie71

sleeve wrote: ↑
Fri 12 Jun 2020 9:20 AM
Yeah that's understandable. How to get the Dev's attention over this?

Roll one. When the archer changes went in there were 99 rangers on. I made a minst, yesterday there were 70 minstrels.

Fri 12 Jun 2020 4:35 PM by opossum12

What makes Minstrel so OP compared to Live? The latest charm / songs changes basically put them at the level of Minstrels on Live, where they are useful and good but nowhere near OP?

The only thing I can think of is that a Minstrel melee dps is quite low on Live, so killing players takes time.

Might want to reduce the delve on their DDs and their melee dps (adjusting growth rates maybe?) to balance out their pet and overall utility?

Fri 12 Jun 2020 8:25 PM by daoklover

Just keep them the same but they can only charm blue con pets.

I’m a genius.

Fri 12 Jun 2020 8:58 PM by Luluko

Did anyone here ever try to play something like a skald and mezz the minstrel and then just smash the pet down? if the minstrel is alone and not running away the minst will prolly end up dead and the pet cant demezz the minst if you aggro it before it can hit the minst out of mezz. Assassins can use vanish and try adding. And well tanks need to bring a friend or use los to kill the pet first and since you cant have a buffbot here it should be easier to kill a minst here and they also dont have cl disease and som. I managed to kill a rr9+ minst with my rr6 skald, just need det and some ip and switch the body chant in. If you get killed by the pet and dds alone you are doing something wrong or you are soloing on a caster and you only rely on moc for your wins.

But thats just my experience from the last time I played, if there is a minstrel which can get positional snares off like an anytime you also wont be able to kill the minst on a skald but you shouldnt die to one.

Fri 12 Jun 2020 9:18 PM by pollojack

borodino1812 wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Jun 2020 11:00 PM
I gave up, and so I'm leveling one. There will not be any meaningful downtune, so you might as well try one. Considering the numbers, I don't think I am the only one that is thinking this way.

Don't even need to hit 50 or be templated to kill RR3-5 BMs/Skalds. Killed several with my untemplated 49 minst, RR3 from frontier only and don't even have purge/sos.

Luluko wrote: ↑
Fri 12 Jun 2020 8:58 PM
Did anyone here ever try to play something like a skald and mezz the minstrel and then just smash the pet down? if the minstrel is alone and not running away the minst will prolly end up dead and the pet cant demezz the minst if you aggro it before it can hit the minst out of mezz. Assassins can use vanish and try adding. And well tanks need to bring a friend or use los to kill the pet first and since you cant have a buffbot here it should be easier to kill a minst here and they also dont have cl disease and som. I managed to kill a rr9+ minst with my rr6 skald, just need det and some ip and switch the body chant in. If you get killed by the pet and dds alone you are doing something wrong or you are soloing on a caster and you only rely on moc for your wins.

But thats just my experience from the last time I played, if there is a minstrel which can get positional snares off like an anytime you also wont be able to kill the minst on a skald but you shouldnt die to one.

Yes, I had a skald try to do that to me. I don't have purge so had to wait out the mes. After he killed my pet I stunned him, grabbed another, and sicced it on him. He was ~60% from the first pet and I grabbed a red mind worm and he gave up after taking a few hits from it. Again, lvl 49 with RAs set for farming loot. Was a RR5+ skald, want to say 7 but it has been a while.

Sat 13 Jun 2020 12:02 AM by sleeve

Luluko wrote: ↑
Fri 12 Jun 2020 8:58 PM
Did anyone here ever try to play something like a skald and mezz the minstrel and then just smash the pet down? if the minstrel is alone and not running away the minst will prolly end up dead and the pet cant demezz the minst if you aggro it before it can hit the minst out of mezz. Assassins can use vanish and try adding. And well tanks need to bring a friend or use los to kill the pet first and since you cant have a buffbot here it should be easier to kill a minst here and they also dont have cl disease and som. I managed to kill a rr9+ minst with my rr6 skald, just need det and some ip and switch the body chant in. If you get killed by the pet and dds alone you are doing something wrong or you are soloing on a caster and you only rely on moc for your wins.

But thats just my experience from the last time I played, if there is a minstrel which can get positional snares off like an anytime you also wont be able to kill the minst on a skald but you shouldnt die to one.

This is what im talking about, if you mezz the mins.. mins will release pet for a dmez / deroot whichever, and then CAN CHARM the mob again even if you aggro it. Feel like banging my head off the wall xD

Sat 13 Jun 2020 4:36 AM by gotwqqd

sleeve wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jun 2020 12:02 AM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Fri 12 Jun 2020 8:58 PM
Did anyone here ever try to play something like a skald and mezz the minstrel and then just smash the pet down? if the minstrel is alone and not running away the minst will prolly end up dead and the pet cant demezz the minst if you aggro it before it can hit the minst out of mezz. Assassins can use vanish and try adding. And well tanks need to bring a friend or use los to kill the pet first and since you cant have a buffbot here it should be easier to kill a minst here and they also dont have cl disease and som. I managed to kill a rr9+ minst with my rr6 skald, just need det and some ip and switch the body chant in. If you get killed by the pet and dds alone you are doing something wrong or you are soloing on a caster and you only rely on moc for your wins.

But thats just my experience from the last time I played, if there is a minstrel which can get positional snares off like an anytime you also wont be able to kill the minst on a skald but you shouldnt die to one.

This is what im talking about, if you mezz the mins.. mins will release pet for a dmez / deroot whichever, and then CAN CHARM the mob again even if you aggro it. Feel like banging my head off the wall xD

Did you read what he said?
He gets agg on pet(released) before it hits the minstrel

Sat 13 Jun 2020 1:50 PM by sleeve

Yeah, Ive tried that few times but minstrel managed to control pet again. Maybe a skald is more able to do this than a caster. Is it possible to aggro the mob(released) with a stat debuff before it hits the mins

Sat 13 Jun 2020 4:48 PM by joshisanonymous

For a solo caster, it's all but impossible to do anything in the 2-6 seconds during which the pet is released, and even if you manage to aggro it, you're not really less screwed than you were before.

And pollojack described exactly why any minstrel who's not overcommitting to a fight is either gonna win or at least not lose. You can kill their pet, and if you're a class that they can't beat in regular melee, they can just reset the fight and go grab another pet and get back to you before you can get anywhere. I've literally had minstrels run completely out of clipping range in this scenarios and get back to me with a new pet before I can hardly get anywhere. For caster speed classes, maybe they have a chance to get away before this reset, and skalds of course have a shot of keeping the minst from running off to grab a new pet, but for anyone else, there's no reason for a minstrel to ever lose unless they overcommit.

Sat 13 Jun 2020 5:37 PM by alex200k

Tossed my RR9 skald, currently leveling a minstrel.

Sun 14 Jun 2020 12:56 PM by dbeattie71

alex200k wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jun 2020 5:37 PM
Tossed my RR9 skald, currently leveling a minstrel.

I’ve never played Alb before, unless you count Mordred, so it’s like a new game. I made a minst yesterday, I think there were 70 on at the time. I can see why after playing it a bit. What a fun class, 2 forms of CC, speed, chain (lol), stealth, pets, shouts, climb walls (lol), etc.

Sun 14 Jun 2020 6:26 PM by Loki

dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jun 2020 12:56 PM
I made a minst yesterday

Come to Uppland once you're temped, my skald needs practice ... only bad minsts out there lately ;3

Also for those trying to explain how you can just mezz the minst and bash the pet, if the minst is around average he'll just command the pet to come close and release it between your weapon swings so that you have no chance of getting aggro. So you trade a bit of pet damage for his mezz immunity, not always ideal depending on how things go from there

Sun 14 Jun 2020 6:55 PM by Astaa

91 mincers online atm

62 rangers.

Mincers will never get fixed.

Just rolled one too.

Mon 15 Jun 2020 7:32 AM by Cadebrennus

dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jun 2020 12:56 PM
alex200k wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jun 2020 5:37 PM
Tossed my RR9 skald, currently leveling a minstrel.

I’ve never played Alb before, unless you count Mordred, so it’s like a new game. I made a minst yesterday, I think there were 70 on at the time. I can see why after playing it a bit. What a fun class, 2 forms of CC, speed, chain (lol), stealth, pets, shouts, climb walls (lol), etc.

You can join me on the Merc

Mon 15 Jun 2020 7:38 AM by Razur Ur

Astaa wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jun 2020 6:55 PM
91 mincers online atm

62 rangers.

Mincers will never get fixed.

Just rolled one too.

Poor Minstrels it give not enough Ellylll Sage for every minstrel :-(

Mon 15 Jun 2020 7:42 AM by inoeth

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Jun 2020 7:38 AM
Astaa wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jun 2020 6:55 PM
91 mincers online atm

62 rangers.

Mincers will never get fixed.

Just rolled one too.

Poor Minstrels it give not enough Ellylll Sage for every minstrel :-(

np, i have seen a minstrel killing a warrior in close combat yesterday without pet...
poor warriors are so gimped here, plz buff warriors

Mon 15 Jun 2020 7:59 AM by Razur Ur

inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Jun 2020 7:42 AM
np, i have seen a minstrel killing a warrior in close combat yesterday without pet...
poor warriors are so gimped here, plz buff warriors

i noticed that too, most Skalds do more dmg than a warrior ^_^. But I want to say that a warrior with mob7 or higher has good chances against every class
except caster XD how ench, cabby, sorc, theurg and ani.

Mon 15 Jun 2020 12:01 PM by inoeth

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Jun 2020 7:59 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Jun 2020 7:42 AM
np, i have seen a minstrel killing a warrior in close combat yesterday without pet...
poor warriors are so gimped here, plz buff warriors

i noticed that too, most Skalds do more dmg than a warrior ^_^. But I want to say that a warrior with mob7 or higher has good chances against every class
except caster XD how ench, cabby, sorc, theurg and ani.

yes skalds are insanely powerfull here. i played thane on live and the dmg difference between warrior and thane was significantly in favor of the warrior. here every good thane will kill a warrior easily

Mon 15 Jun 2020 12:33 PM by Razur Ur

inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Jun 2020 12:01 PM
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Jun 2020 7:59 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Jun 2020 7:42 AM
np, i have seen a minstrel killing a warrior in close combat yesterday without pet...
poor warriors are so gimped here, plz buff warriors

i noticed that too, most Skalds do more dmg than a warrior ^_^. But I want to say that a warrior with mob7 or higher has good chances against every class
except caster XD how ench, cabby, sorc, theurg and ani.

yes skalds are insanely powerfull here. i played thane on live and the dmg difference between warrior and thane was significantly in favor of the warrior. here every good thane will kill a warrior easily

thane is strong on that server because he got same dmg table how champion.

Mon 15 Jun 2020 12:47 PM by Lefreak

dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jun 2020 12:56 PM
alex200k wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jun 2020 5:37 PM
Tossed my RR9 skald, currently leveling a minstrel.

I’ve never played Alb before, unless you count Mordred, so it’s like a new game. I made a minst yesterday, I think there were 70 on at the time. I can see why after playing it a bit. What a fun class, 2 forms of CC, speed, chain (lol), stealth, pets, shouts, climb walls (lol), etc.

Minstrels are a joke.... they have everything in one char and i never see an ALB nerf exept whit a all realm nerf. Thats why Albs are always more in game. You cant fight 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2 whihout a Minstrel jump in now. They are everywhere and they run like an lightning. Finally.... i hate albs easy way lollll

Mon 15 Jun 2020 8:53 PM by Astaa

Mincer update

76 mincers

60 rangers.

How is that adjustment coming along?

Mon 15 Jun 2020 9:17 PM by sleeve

Shame, i enjoyed playing solo when not on support class. every other class is a fight, minstrel you may aswell sit down on a caster

Mon 15 Jun 2020 9:48 PM by Cadebrennus

Astaa wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Jun 2020 8:53 PM
Mincer update

76 mincers

60 rangers.

How is that adjustment coming along?

I stopped playing my Ranger because there are too many Rangers (and Archer's in general), which were created because of the buffs.

Archers were then nerfed "because there were too many of them."

I am not seeing the same logic apply to Minstrels. Oh well. I'm on my Merc now so I guess I won't see how OP'ed they are from the opposing side anymore.

Mon 15 Jun 2020 9:51 PM by Astaa

33 now on mine!

About to switch over to Necro to farm exp items to sprint to 50.

Plan is to go out in whatever crap I can find, so long as Instruments are 50+11 and kill people with pet to show off some skill.

Edit, if a my pets fight doesn't work out I'll always have sos LOL

Tue 16 Jun 2020 7:43 AM by Siouxsie

Astaa wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Jun 2020 8:53 PM
Mincer update

76 mincers

60 rangers.

How is that adjustment coming along?

There were 5 rangers at the Ellan Vannin west flag yesterday.
Also, albs were running 2 scouts, 1 inf and 1 minstrel small-man stealth groups as well.

Tue 16 Jun 2020 6:04 PM by Horus

Astaa wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jun 2020 6:55 PM
91 mincers online atm

62 rangers.

Mincers will never get fixed.

Just rolled one too.

Interestingly, when the Archery change 1st went in (there were 2 days of increased bow damage before re-nerf) my ranger (we also had all str relics) could eat minstrels for lunch...crit shot + couple more shots + minstrel not being used to having to deter archers = dead minstrel. I was killing them left and right in CG.

Then they renerfed archery, then the relics evened out...now a natural minstrel predator is no more.

You will see the ranger population continue to drop.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 10:56 AM by Luluko

pollojack wrote: ↑
Fri 12 Jun 2020 9:18 PM
borodino1812 wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Jun 2020 11:00 PM
I gave up, and so I'm leveling one. There will not be any meaningful downtune, so you might as well try one. Considering the numbers, I don't think I am the only one that is thinking this way.

Don't even need to hit 50 or be templated to kill RR3-5 BMs/Skalds. Killed several with my untemplated 49 minst, RR3 from frontier only and don't even have purge/sos.

Luluko wrote: ↑
Fri 12 Jun 2020 8:58 PM
Did anyone here ever try to play something like a skald and mezz the minstrel and then just smash the pet down? if the minstrel is alone and not running away the minst will prolly end up dead and the pet cant demezz the minst if you aggro it before it can hit the minst out of mezz. Assassins can use vanish and try adding. And well tanks need to bring a friend or use los to kill the pet first and since you cant have a buffbot here it should be easier to kill a minst here and they also dont have cl disease and som. I managed to kill a rr9+ minst with my rr6 skald, just need det and some ip and switch the body chant in. If you get killed by the pet and dds alone you are doing something wrong or you are soloing on a caster and you only rely on moc for your wins.

But thats just my experience from the last time I played, if there is a minstrel which can get positional snares off like an anytime you also wont be able to kill the minst on a skald but you shouldnt die to one.

Yes, I had a skald try to do that to me. I don't have purge so had to wait out the mes. After he killed my pet I stunned him, grabbed another, and sicced it on him. He was ~60% from the first pet and I grabbed a red mind worm and he gave up after taking a few hits from it. Again, lvl 49 with RAs set for farming loot. Was a RR5+ skald, want to say 7 but it has been a while.

well if you have at least det7 on a skald that stun wont be long enough to run out of snare range and you should really keep purge incase they mezz, obviously its also important to kite a minstrel away from potential pets they can recharm before you engage in combat with them. If the minstrel is determined not to die the minst will stay in tower/pet spot range anyway but then you just need to pick your locations better if you solo on a skald. If you get added by minst just snare their pet + mezz them and use sos2 to get away only the really good ones will even realize their pet is snared and even then the pet desnare will take them a few secs and they then also need to waste sos if they wanna keep up.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 11:02 AM by Luluko

Loki wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jun 2020 6:26 PM
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jun 2020 12:56 PM
I made a minst yesterday

Come to Uppland once you're temped, my skald needs practice ... only bad minsts out there lately ;3

Also for those trying to explain how you can just mezz the minst and bash the pet, if the minst is around average he'll just command the pet to come close and release it between your weapon swings so that you have no chance of getting aggro. So you trade a bit of pet damage for his mezz immunity, not always ideal depending on how things go from there

well you can keep 1dd rdy to try to reduce that chance, in most cases minstrels underestimate skalds, the only issue is who gets the jump and who dumbs his ra's first, overall I would say minstrel needs a lot more micromanagement on the move the longer the fights goes the higher the chance that you can get away as a skald even if you mess up a little. I only really see a problem with minstrels which can use positional style snares almost anytime, those can reset the fight too often that its prolly wiser to bail and get them when their toys are down.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 7:59 PM by inoeth

Luluko wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 11:02 AM
Loki wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jun 2020 6:26 PM
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jun 2020 12:56 PM
I made a minst yesterday

Come to Uppland once you're temped, my skald needs practice ... only bad minsts out there lately ;3

Also for those trying to explain how you can just mezz the minst and bash the pet, if the minst is around average he'll just command the pet to come close and release it between your weapon swings so that you have no chance of getting aggro. So you trade a bit of pet damage for his mezz immunity, not always ideal depending on how things go from there

well you can keep 1dd rdy to try to reduce that chance, in most cases minstrels underestimate skalds, the only issue is who gets the jump and who dumbs his ra's first, overall I would say minstrel needs a lot more micromanagement on the move the longer the fights goes the higher the chance that you can get away as a skald even if you mess up a little. I only really see a problem with minstrels which can use positional style snares almost anytime, those can reset the fight too often that its prolly wiser to bail and get them when their toys are down.

do minstrels go out with ras down? at least sos is always ready to run to the keep and get help from guards lol

Sat 20 Jun 2020 4:20 PM by Luluko

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 7:59 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 11:02 AM
Loki wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Jun 2020 6:26 PM
Come to Uppland once you're temped, my skald needs practice ... only bad minsts out there lately ;3

Also for those trying to explain how you can just mezz the minst and bash the pet, if the minst is around average he'll just command the pet to come close and release it between your weapon swings so that you have no chance of getting aggro. So you trade a bit of pet damage for his mezz immunity, not always ideal depending on how things go from there

well you can keep 1dd rdy to try to reduce that chance, in most cases minstrels underestimate skalds, the only issue is who gets the jump and who dumbs his ra's first, overall I would say minstrel needs a lot more micromanagement on the move the longer the fights goes the higher the chance that you can get away as a skald even if you mess up a little. I only really see a problem with minstrels which can use positional style snares almost anytime, those can reset the fight too often that its prolly wiser to bail and get them when their toys are down.

do minstrels go out with ras down? at least sos is always ready to run to the keep and get help from guards lol

usually not... but if you look like an easy target they might try without it, dress up a robe and a staff with macros and playing a caster race also helps. Certainly wont work that often if they are some what intelligent...

Sat 20 Jun 2020 6:08 PM by Lucifeur

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 12 Jun 2020 7:39 AM
Let's be honest with ourselves. Plenty of people would vote Yes on any nerf that nerfs "the other realm" or "not my class" regardless of balance.
Getting input from the playerbase is important but letting them decide every detail just leads to chaos and in the end a really shitty game

This.

Sat 20 Jun 2020 6:47 PM by Horus

Since population seems to be what determines what gets buffed/nerfed , using that logic, minstrels need an "adjustment".

I think a good adjustment would be to remove Ignore Pain. As it is now, their ability to mitigate damage is way too high when paired with their other abilities.

Ablative chant
Legion Heart
Heal Pot
Healing pet
Ignore Pain
SoS if things get too dicey.
To a lesser extent stealth.
Perm speed 6 without endo chant needed

Just a little too much dmg mitigation for one class IMO, In other times ,minstrels were powerful purely because of kiting. ..took some skill, patience, and smart targeting. Now they can just charge in and attack anyone like a tank, stand toe to toe, and and have a pretty good chance of success....and if things go south there is no risk because they have a huge potential instant HP pool and tools for escape.

Sun 21 Jun 2020 12:37 AM by opossum12

The devs already destroyed the Minstrel in 8v8, think we can give them a break for a couple.

Sun 21 Jun 2020 12:57 AM by Neso

Horus wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Jun 2020 6:47 PM
Since population seems to be what determines what gets buffed/nerfed , using that logic, minstrels need an "adjustment".

I think a good adjustment would be to remove Ignore Pain. As it is now, their ability to mitigate damage is way too high when paired with their other abilities.

Ablative chant
Legion Heart
Heal Pot
Healing pet
Ignore Pain
SoS if things get too dicey.
To a lesser extent stealth.
Perm speed 6 without endo chant needed

Just a little too much dmg mitigation for one class IMO, In other times ,minstrels were powerful purely because of kiting. ..took some skill, patience, and smart targeting. Now they can just charge in and attack anyone like a tank, stand toe to toe, and and have a pretty good chance of success....and if things go south there is no risk because they have a huge potential instant HP pool and tools for escape.

=

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 12 Jun 2020 7:39 AM
Let's be honest with ourselves. Plenty of people would vote Yes on any nerf that nerfs "the other realm" or "not my class" regardless of balance.
Getting input from the playerbase is important but letting them decide every detail just leads to chaos and in the end a really shitty game

Sun 21 Jun 2020 10:39 AM by Luluko

Horus wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Jun 2020 6:47 PM
Since population seems to be what determines what gets buffed/nerfed , using that logic, minstrels need an "adjustment".

I think a good adjustment would be to remove Ignore Pain. As it is now, their ability to mitigate damage is way too high when paired with their other abilities.

Ablative chant
Legion Heart
Heal Pot
Healing pet
Ignore Pain
SoS if things get too dicey.
To a lesser extent stealth.
Perm speed 6 without endo chant needed

Just a little too much dmg mitigation for one class IMO, In other times ,minstrels were powerful purely because of kiting. ..took some skill, patience, and smart targeting. Now they can just charge in and attack anyone like a tank, stand toe to toe, and and have a pretty good chance of success....and if things go south there is no risk because they have a huge potential instant HP pool and tools for escape.

do minstrels actually use ablative chant and a healpet at the same time? That should mess up the combat quite a lot with so much switching going on and having to target a pet, even with macros.

generally minstrels arent that much of a problem since their damage output is quite weak, every halfy decent played bd should be able to kill them if sos is down and certain tanks especially with trust damage and det should also kill them quite fast if you get a stun in which isnt purged so start with a low duration stun and have something to fall back to for los break incase they manage to get out of range

Sun 21 Jun 2020 6:03 PM by pollojack

I still see 8mans running two mints with red woofer pets. You can't seriously claim they are broken or weak if groups are still okay with more than one of them.

Sun 21 Jun 2020 7:46 PM by Quik

opossum12 wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Jun 2020 12:37 AM
The devs already destroyed the Minstrel in 8v8, think we can give them a break for a couple.

OMG this was funny.

I see just as many minnies during NA times as I always have. They are still OP and the only people arguing they aren't are the ones that want to keep playing the OP class LOL

Mon 22 Jun 2020 7:47 AM by iridia

opossum12 wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Jun 2020 12:37 AM
The devs already destroyed the Minstrel in 8v8, think we can give them a break for a couple.

Agree.

Sun 28 Jun 2020 8:13 PM by alex200k

Minstrels can still release charm, hit mob/pet, and recharm to break any crowd control on pet.

Mon 29 Jun 2020 1:19 PM by Sek

Stop bothering attempting to save your class on Phoenix, it's a lost cause, most people have low IQ and a bag full of stories concerning their former golden age on live server that had nothing to do with 1.65 patch. Devs in here do not reward the " try hard " community, the extent of their commitment regarding the players that are involving a lot of time in their character is nonexistent. Make a bow oriented or a melee class or do like me, play another game.

Mon 29 Jun 2020 2:58 PM by gromet12

Sek wrote: ↑
Mon 29 Jun 2020 1:19 PM
Stop bothering attempting to save your class on Phoenix, it's a lost cause, most people have low IQ and a bag full of stories concerning their former golden age on live server that had nothing to do with 1.65 patch. Devs in here do not reward the " try hard " community, the extent of their commitment regarding the players that are involving a lot of time in their character is nonexistent. Make a bow oriented or a melee class or do like me, play another game.

Try hard LMAO....macro FTW is more like it

Mon 29 Jun 2020 3:26 PM by Noashakra

gromet12 wrote: ↑
Mon 29 Jun 2020 2:58 PM
Sek wrote: ↑
Mon 29 Jun 2020 1:19 PM
Stop bothering attempting to save your class on Phoenix, it's a lost cause, most people have low IQ and a bag full of stories concerning their former golden age on live server that had nothing to do with 1.65 patch. Devs in here do not reward the " try hard " community, the extent of their commitment regarding the players that are involving a lot of time in their character is nonexistent. Make a bow oriented or a melee class or do like me, play another game.

Try hard LMAO....macro FTW is more like it

All those people have the illusion to be good, when macro are making most of the class playable for the average joe (even the ministrel).
Those people would not be playing the ministrel in a real 1.65 version because they would fuck up somewhere in their switch (no harp on top so 3 instruments to switch) or sequencing. That's why there was maybe 2 or 3 impressive solo ministrels per server, and nobody complained about them being too OP.
Here, those people use AHK and think they are gods at the game playing a class they would not be able to play back in the days.

Wed 1 Jul 2020 9:59 PM by Bry

Without having to twist, the flute mez gets bugged so once it has started casting it WILL ALWAYS FINISH once you come back in to range. Its like having insta mez. The song can be delayed for well over 3s after it finishes and will just wait until the minstrel walks back in to range. Now that they dont have to twist and get a free pet, its happening all the time. Fix this bug.

Wed 1 Jul 2020 10:20 PM by joshisanonymous

Bry wrote: ↑
Wed 1 Jul 2020 9:59 PM
Without having to twist, the flute mez gets bugged so once it has started casting it WILL ALWAYS FINISH once you come back in to range. Its like having insta mez. The song can be delayed for well over 3s after it finishes and will just wait until the minstrel walks back in to range. Now that they dont have to twist and get a free pet, its happening all the time. Fix this bug.

Pretty sure flute mez has always worked this way both Live and here.

Thu 2 Jul 2020 5:48 PM by Adwaenyth

joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Wed 1 Jul 2020 10:20 PM
Bry wrote: ↑
Wed 1 Jul 2020 9:59 PM
Without having to twist, the flute mez gets bugged so once it has started casting it WILL ALWAYS FINISH once you come back in to range. Its like having insta mez. The song can be delayed for well over 3s after it finishes and will just wait until the minstrel walks back in to range. Now that they dont have to twist and get a free pet, its happening all the time. Fix this bug.

Pretty sure flute mez has always worked this way both Live and here.

As long as you weren't beyond the 50% cast threshold you could still rupt the mez... you can't do it here. Even below that threshold you can't rupt a Minstrel atm, be it with DD or with Amnesia... only thing that works is stun or mez for obvious reasons.

Thu 2 Jul 2020 10:02 PM by

gruenesschaf

Adwaenyth wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Jul 2020 5:48 PM
As long as you weren't beyond the 50% cast threshold you could still rupt the mez... you can't do it here. Even below that threshold you can't rupt a Minstrel atm, be it with DD or with Amnesia... only thing that works is stun or mez for obvious reasons.

You can rupt it with damage until 50% but amnesia does nothing as it's a song, same for bards with all songs.

Thu 2 Jul 2020 10:06 PM by

gruenesschaf

joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Wed 1 Jul 2020 10:20 PM
Bry wrote: ↑
Wed 1 Jul 2020 9:59 PM
Without having to twist, the flute mez gets bugged so once it has started casting it WILL ALWAYS FINISH once you come back in to range. Its like having insta mez. The song can be delayed for well over 3s after it finishes and will just wait until the minstrel walks back in to range. Now that they dont have to twist and get a free pet, its happening all the time. Fix this bug.

Pretty sure flute mez has always worked this way both Live and here.

Yep, basically the song (flute animation etc.) causes a pulse / chant on completion, just like speed, this pulse periodically checks if the intended target is in range and in view, if it is it applies the mez (allowing for resists / immunities etc.) and cancels the pulse. If you play another song, like speed, before the mez goes off you cancel the pulse and no mez will happen.
It should even work if you start the mez song before someone enters the boat and you then walk to him without speed, after the half-hour walk you will instantly mezz him once you get into range (assuming neither died and you didn't play another song).

Fri 3 Jul 2020 8:16 AM by iridia

Bry wrote: ↑
Wed 1 Jul 2020 9:59 PM
Without having to twist, the flute mez gets bugged so once it has started casting it WILL ALWAYS FINISH once you come back in to range. Its like having insta mez.

That's epic.

Sun 5 Jul 2020 4:42 PM by Siouxsie

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Jul 2020 10:06 PM
joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Wed 1 Jul 2020 10:20 PM
Bry wrote: ↑
Wed 1 Jul 2020 9:59 PM
Without having to twist, the flute mez gets bugged so once it has started casting it WILL ALWAYS FINISH once you come back in to range. Its like having insta mez. The song can be delayed for well over 3s after it finishes and will just wait until the minstrel walks back in to range. Now that they dont have to twist and get a free pet, its happening all the time. Fix this bug.

Pretty sure flute mez has always worked this way both Live and here.

Yep, basically the song (flute animation etc.) causes a pulse / chant on completion, just like speed, this pulse periodically checks if the intended target is in range and in view, if it is it applies the mez (allowing for resists / immunities etc.) and cancels the pulse. If you play another song, like speed, before the mez goes off you cancel the pulse and no mez will happen.
It should even work if you start the mez song before someone enters the boat and you then walk to him without speed, after the half-hour walk you will instantly mezz him once you get into range (assuming neither died and you didn't play another song).

Wow this is utterly broken mechanics and really overpowered and imbalanced.
Please, fix this mess.

I still want to know what drugs Mythic devs were smoking when they came up with this class.
All they're missing is a spec'able shield, and heal spells, and yeah while you're at it give them dirty tricks and a polearm.

Wed 8 Jul 2020 3:56 PM by cpd041975

To lazy to read through this thread, but even the recent minstrel "bug fix" means they just send their pet on you, you CC it, they release it and they grab a new pet, now you have two pets hitting you rather than just one when the first pet comes out of CC. Please remediate.

Wed 8 Jul 2020 4:07 PM by Noashakra

cpd041975 wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Jul 2020 3:56 PM
To lazy to read through this thread, but even the recent minstrel "bug fix" means they just send their pet on you, you CC it, they release it and they grab a new pet, now you have two pets hitting you rather than just one when the first pet comes out of CC. Please remediate.

It was always like this.

Sat 11 Jul 2020 5:43 PM by jhaerik

Lucifeur wrote: ↑
Sat 20 Jun 2020 6:08 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 12 Jun 2020 7:39 AM
Let's be honest with ourselves. Plenty of people would vote Yes on any nerf that nerfs "the other realm" or "not my class" regardless of balance.
Getting input from the playerbase is important but letting them decide every detail just leads to chaos and in the end a really shitty game

This.

Let's be even more honest here, most people on this server play two if not all three realms.

Mini is one of the few classes I don't even bother trying to fight anymore. The absolutely best case scenario trying to 1v1 a mini is you blowings RA's and they just SoS away.
That's the best result. That's even assume you are one the the few classes that has a change to begin with. It's even more forgiving than melee stealth and Vanish.

Seeing as 2/3's of solo fights are either melee stealth, skalds, or mini's I can see why people get annoyed. Those classes are just unrealistically strong with the changes this server have added... so they get played the most. Between the buff pots, class changes, bonus HP, mixed bag of RA's and insanely high utility templates they got buffed out the ass.