Personal Mounts - Phoenix Freeshard

We would like to add personal mounts in the near future, this will happen via the newly introduced "banished" area.

In rvr zones they will be limited to hastener speed and in pve zones they will have speed 5, they won't be usable in dungeons. There will be a 1 minute cd after any kind of combat to summon a horse. You will dismount whenever hastener speed would break (attacking or being attacked) but also when you start casting.

While on a horse, speed buffs other than sprinting will have no effect on you, this is to avoid everyone being mounted up in rvr while in a group with a speed class and everyone still having horse speed when the speed class speed pulse stops.

The cost to obtain a horse will be 10p per character but this amount can optionally be reduced by up to 5p by doing quests in a new quest chain. The horse itself will not be tradeable. There won't be any saddle bags to begin with and the barding as well as saddle / armor will not be handled by items.

Instead of buying different horse items to change the horse appearance there will only be a single horse item and a command that allows you to purchase, change and preview the horse model, barding and saddle / armor while in a capital city. Unlocking anything here will unlock it for all characters on your account for that realm, note that you still have to purchase the single horse item for every character though. Barding and saddle / armor color changes will be free.
All of these changes will be cosmetic only, all horses will behave the same regardless of their appearance.

EDIT
There is now an ingame vote. Do /vote when logged in and you will see your options. You need to have at least one lvl 50, rr3+ toon on your account to use this command.

EDIT 2
The vote has ended, results:
Total votes 2166
In favor of rvr hastener speed horses: 1107, that's 51.1%
Against rvr hastener speed horses: 1059, that's 48.9%

While that's still a majority in favor of rvr hastener horses, given the margin we're now going to do the following:
The horses will go in as announced for PvE with speed 5 and will remain.
For RvR they will also go in as announced, however, 3 - 7 days after the introduction the vote will be repeated. The 3 - 7 days are there to give us time to fix the bugs and so that everyone had a chance to actually experience the effects of hastener speed horses in rvr first hand to then make an informed vote afterwards.

Once the horses go live and until the new vote has ended every level 50 character will be able to summon a horse in the frontier without having to have bought it. It will be one of the basic models with no customization unless you bought it. After the vote this free rvr horse access will be removed regardless of the vote outcome.

EDIT 3
Here is the result of the final voting:

Yes: 1187 / ~ 52%
No: 1097 / ~ 48%

Horses in RvR will stay in. After the next reboot the free RvR horses (/summon) will be disabled.

Mon 18 May 2020 2:39 PM by Ashenspire

In before the "pay to win" comments.

I like this. Cost is a bit steep per character, but implementation sounds solid.

Mon 18 May 2020 2:43 PM by Blevox

So a huuuuuge nerf to the casterspeed classes to dodge while solo on RvR?
Not Fan of the mounts in PvP Zones, other than that, HELL YEA!

Mon 18 May 2020 2:45 PM by Azrael

Why do you change/implement things like mounts in rvr when you repeatedly claimed it will not come. I do not understand this. -1 for that

Mon 18 May 2020 2:50 PM by raghh

This should be voted

Mon 18 May 2020 2:50 PM by Eidorf

These changes do sound great but agree on the cost.

Also, is there any level restriction on this? I would hate horses to only be available to level 50s...

Mon 18 May 2020 2:54 PM by bigne88

Mount in pve spunds nice.
In rvr tough....

Mon 18 May 2020 2:57 PM by Valaraukar

The quest to reduce horses' cost is account wide or bound to the single character?
Which means... will I have to repeat it 6 times? Hope not...

Mon 18 May 2020 3:03 PM by Symptomettes

Huge mistake... Why do you keep making nukers useless even more at every patch ?

Every live idea you are taking are the bad ones... You are not even finishing the previous work that you are already releasing something new that will change lot of mechanics in rvr. There are ton of work about balance between class and realms to do before giving everyone nuker speed. And if you do that, implement speed cut.

At least when you want to implement new things like that, ask the comunity if they feel it's gonna be a good idea or not. You have a voting section and still it's never used for the big stuff.

Mon 18 May 2020 3:05 PM by WildWilbur

raghh wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 2:50 PM
This should be voted

This! I'm against any mounts in PvP... In PvE would be ok imo...

Mon 18 May 2020 3:10 PM by Zwei

PvE = Hell yeah. Would be awesome.

RvR = 100% against Horses in RvR/PvP Zones.

Mon 18 May 2020 3:14 PM by daytonchambers

Blevox wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 2:43 PM
So a huuuuuge nerf to the casterspeed classes to dodge while solo on RvR?
Not Fan of the mounts in PvP Zones, other than that, HELL YEA!

so is realm speed also a nerf to casters? This argument is stupid.

with a 1min cd after any sort of pvp as well as only hastener speed it wont be game breaking. I'm a huge fan of this change

Mon 18 May 2020 3:27 PM by Azrael

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 3:14 PM
Blevox wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 2:43 PM
So a huuuuuge nerf to the casterspeed classes to dodge while solo on RvR?
Not Fan of the mounts in PvP Zones, other than that, HELL YEA!

so is realm speed also a nerf to casters? This argument is stupid.

with a 1min cd after any sort of pvp as well as only hastener speed it wont be game breaking. I'm a huge fan of this change

It can be. The guy who diseased you can catch up now. (if you are on caster speed)

Mon 18 May 2020 3:28 PM by Freudinio

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 3:14 PM
Blevox wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 2:43 PM
So a huuuuuge nerf to the casterspeed classes to dodge while solo on RvR?
Not Fan of the mounts in PvP Zones, other than that, HELL YEA!

so is realm speed also a nerf to casters? This argument is stupid.

with a 1min cd after any sort of pvp as well as only hastener speed it wont be game breaking. I'm a huge fan of this change

Just because others opinions does not align with yours, does not make them stupid.

I've always felt mounts were a mistake on live. That said, given the amount of hasterners here, it will have little impact in RvR outside of reinforcing the coastguarding for Breif/Jamt/Pen tbh. Great to get speed 5 for PvE though

Mon 18 May 2020 3:32 PM by Taniquetil

Might encourage people to move around more in rvr, realm speed or hastener speed pots have been asked for for a long time, this is a good change.

Mon 18 May 2020 3:34 PM by Razur Ur

Symptomettes wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 3:03 PM
Huge mistake... Why do you keep making nukers useless even more at every patch ?

haha good joke the debuff nuker is still way too strong!

Mon 18 May 2020 3:42 PM by Durzo

Of all the things to not put to a vote...

Mon 18 May 2020 3:49 PM by Blevox

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 3:14 PM
Blevox wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 2:43 PM
So a huuuuuge nerf to the casterspeed classes to dodge while solo on RvR?
Not Fan of the mounts in PvP Zones, other than that, HELL YEA!

so is realm speed also a nerf to casters? This argument is stupid.

with a 1min cd after any sort of pvp as well as only hastener speed it wont be game breaking. I'm a huge fan of this change

Realmspeed is not always up, unless you camp DC West - Having the edge against others without that 10P investment, but ye sure, Realmspeed.
I will just hop on my trusted steed while that poor beggar has nothing to even get away from that.
Charging solo casters with that Speed, I can already hear RM/Ench/Sorc people crying. And no those aforementioned are not your Solozone fotm chars.
Happy BDs on mounts everywhere soon, thanks for being so into it.

Mon 18 May 2020 3:53 PM by Clartiex

This is honestly an awful idea. I do agree that it should be put to a vote, just like most other things. People will now be able to run a small man or an 8 man without even needing a bard/skald/minstrel. Slowly killing off the game a little at a time I suppose.

Mon 18 May 2020 4:07 PM by Solong

there is an ingame vote

Mon 18 May 2020 4:09 PM by Ceen

Clartiex wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 3:53 PM
This is honestly an awful idea. I do agree that it should be put to a vote, just like most other things. People will now be able to run a small man or an 8 man without even needing a bard/skald/minstrel. Slowly killing off the game a little at a time I suppose.

I want to see that mighty small man on horses without speed 6 they gonna have lots of fun

But all the BD on horse gonna be annoying =)

Mon 18 May 2020 4:10 PM by Delegator

Mounts in RVR zones is a terrible idea just ripe for bugs and exploits. Where are those bugs and exploits? Darned if I know, but if it takes so many tries to settle on archery damage, I shudder at what will happen with mounts.

Mon 18 May 2020 4:10 PM by

Uthred

There is now an ingame vote. Do /vote when logged in and you will see your options. You need to have at least one lvl 50, rr3+ toon on your account to use this command.

Mon 18 May 2020 4:19 PM by kratoxin

for all the people stating it's a nerf to classes with caster speed, IT'S NOT, easily knock the person off the horse, kite some.. gg your caster speed kicks in before they even try to get on a horse... come on guys lol

Mon 18 May 2020 4:21 PM by daytonchambers

Blevox wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 3:49 PM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 3:14 PM
Blevox wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 2:43 PM
So a huuuuuge nerf to the casterspeed classes to dodge while solo on RvR?
Not Fan of the mounts in PvP Zones, other than that, HELL YEA!

so is realm speed also a nerf to casters? This argument is stupid.

with a 1min cd after any sort of pvp as well as only hastener speed it wont be game breaking. I'm a huge fan of this change

Realmspeed is not always up, unless you camp DC West - Having the edge against others without that 10P investment, but ye sure, Realmspeed.
I will just hop on my trusted steed while that poor beggar has nothing to even get away from that.
Charging solo casters with that Speed, I can already hear RM/Ench/Sorc people crying. And no those aforementioned are not your Solozone fotm chars.
Happy BDs on mounts everywhere soon, thanks for being so into it.

RM/chant/Sorc/Theurg/Warden/healer speed is faster than realm speed. And how many speed-less classes are roaming around as-is? Your comment reads like you have a class advantage with speed and want to keep that advantage.

Clartiex wrote: This is honestly an awful idea. I do agree that it should be put to a vote, just like most other things. People will now be able to run a small man or an 8 man without even needing a bard/skald/minstrel. Slowly killing off the game a little at a time I suppose.

Any group with a bard/skald/mincer will smoke a group relying on horses for speed. Period.

This is also great for keeptake BGs with sub-optimal groups, which happens often. Solos and smalls with no speed can actually participate in engagements between keeps/tower without fear of being left behind after the fight is over and they're left with no speed whatsoever.

TL;DR there's a vote now. Lets see what happens.

Mon 18 May 2020 4:34 PM by gnefner

PvE, absolutely.. I love it since th movement speed here is really slow...
RvR, hell no..

Mon 18 May 2020 4:35 PM by Gohanssj

Azrael wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 3:27 PM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 3:14 PM
Blevox wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 2:43 PM
So a huuuuuge nerf to the casterspeed classes to dodge while solo on RvR?
Not Fan of the mounts in PvP Zones, other than that, HELL YEA!

so is realm speed also a nerf to casters? This argument is stupid.

with a 1min cd after any sort of pvp as well as only hastener speed it wont be game breaking. I'm a huge fan of this change

It can be. The guy who diseased you can catch up now. (if you are on caster speed)

You have a 1 min head start so I doubt it

Mon 18 May 2020 4:40 PM by Ashenspire

Imagine thinking hastener speed with a 1 minute cooldown after any kind of combat is any kind of nerf to speed classes.

The delusion here is real. Groups don't run around just on hastener speed as is, this changes nothing.

Mon 18 May 2020 4:43 PM by Gohanssj

Just means soloers might actually leave their own bridge, how is that a bad thing?

Mon 18 May 2020 4:55 PM by Valaraukar

Maybe 1 minute is too short, maybe would be be better with 2 minutes re-use timer. I don't see a nerf for speed-classes, I see it as a big gift to all solo, stealther over all, who roams enemy frontiers with no towers / keeps with hasteners to use.
Will it be a good thing? Don't know yet, I'd give it a try anyway so if the vote is for using horses in RvR I think I'll vote yes. Yet it is a bit unbalancing for people who cannot afford 10p, or 5p, to buy one

Mon 18 May 2020 5:05 PM by TarmonGaidon

Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 4:55 PM
Maybe 1 minute is too short, maybe would be be better with 2 minutes re-use timer. I don't see a nerf for speed-classes, I see it as a big gift to all solo, stealther over all, who roams enemy frontiers with no towers / keeps with hasteners to use.
Will it be a good thing? Don't know yet, I'd give it a try anyway so if the vote is for using horses in RvR I think I'll vote yes. Yet it is a bit unbalancing for people who cannot afford 10p, or 5p, to buy one

I agree that this is a boost to solos and stealthers, but it also negatively impacts assassin classes who slowly move to targets to launch their positionals.

Mon 18 May 2020 5:05 PM by Quik

I can understand why people would like this, but for me I will be done if it is implemented for RvR. PvE is fine.

Pheonix told us since beta they would NEVER add speed tokens/horses/charges and here we are.

If this is the direction the server is going I wish everyone well, but if it goes in I will be done.

Mon 18 May 2020 5:06 PM by Azrael

Gohanssj wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 4:35 PM
Azrael wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 3:27 PM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 3:14 PM
so is realm speed also a nerf to casters? This argument is stupid.

with a 1min cd after any sort of pvp as well as only hastener speed it wont be game breaking. I'm a huge fan of this change

It can be. The guy who diseased you can catch up now. (if you are on caster speed)

You have a 1 min head start so I doubt it

Disease usually lasts longer than a minute so I doubt your doubts.

Mon 18 May 2020 5:07 PM by Xanthippus

Please don't further legitimize the "solos" who just XP gank. There is enough access to hasteners at docks already.

Mon 18 May 2020 5:09 PM by Valaraukar

TarmonGaidon wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 5:05 PM
Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 4:55 PM
Maybe 1 minute is too short, maybe would be be better with 2 minutes re-use timer. I don't see a nerf for speed-classes, I see it as a big gift to all solo, stealther over all, who roams enemy frontiers with no towers / keeps with hasteners to use.
Will it be a good thing? Don't know yet, I'd give it a try anyway so if the vote is for using horses in RvR I think I'll vote yes. Yet it is a bit unbalancing for people who cannot afford 10p, or 5p, to buy one

I agree that this is a boost to solos and stealthers, but it also negatively impacts assassin classes who slowly move to targets to launch their positionals.

Yes maybe, but up to now I got a lot of positionals from assassins while using hastener speed, so I believe it will be the same with mount speed, more or less.
Hoping that all those mounts won't add lag to the game!

Mon 18 May 2020 5:13 PM by Gohanssj

Azrael wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 5:06 PM
Gohanssj wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 4:35 PM
Azrael wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 3:27 PM
It can be. The guy who diseased you can catch up now. (if you are on caster speed)

You have a 1 min head start so I doubt it

Disease usually lasts longer than a minute so I doubt your doubts.

check your maths tho, in 1 min you're moving at 160% ish, desease = 10% reduction, so still 144% so you're going to have ran 44% further than them, probably at least 4k more units, out of clip range, take a turn, disappear. Its a non problem youve made up in your head

Mon 18 May 2020 5:14 PM by Ashenspire

Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 5:05 PM
I can understand why people would like this, but for me I will be done if it is implemented for RvR. PvE is fine.

Pheonix told us since beta they would NEVER add speed tokens/horses/charges and here we are.

If this is the direction the server is going I wish everyone well, but if it goes in I will be done.

Can I have your stuff?

Mon 18 May 2020 5:14 PM by Husceal

Waow voila a bad idea. If I want server with mount, I go to play on official server.
Mount is for solo play, Daoc is not a solo game its a RvR game, class speed is a mechanic of this.
My vote will be no.

Mon 18 May 2020 5:14 PM by Quik

And this is a form of pay to win.

I understand people who have tons of money can temp their characters and get that advantage, but this allows that temped character to now catch a non temped character if they want to just run. A healer might be running at blue speed and will be able to get away from a non speed class, but now he can't if he doesn't have 10p to spend.

You are just widening the gap between the casual and the people who spend 12 hours a day here. A casual MIGHT be able to spend 10p but that MIGHT kill his chance at a temp also, while a player who is always on can afford that on every character without question.

Don't fool yourselves, it is pay to win and will push away newer player who can't get away from ANYTHING now, not 8mans, or small mans, or even solo's.

Yeah I know lots of people won't care, they are just looking at this through their own set of lenses, but step back and look at it from every point of view, how do people not see if just pushes the rich farther ahead that much faster.

Mon 18 May 2020 5:15 PM by Quik

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 5:14 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 5:05 PM
I can understand why people would like this, but for me I will be done if it is implemented for RvR. PvE is fine.

Pheonix told us since beta they would NEVER add speed tokens/horses/charges and here we are.

If this is the direction the server is going I wish everyone well, but if it goes in I will be done.

Can I have your stuff?

If it goes through I will be just randomly giving away to whoever, but you are welcome to show up =)

Mon 18 May 2020 5:16 PM by shintacki

What kind of casting time are we looking at for these mounts in Rvr zones? Needs to be relatively long imo. I don’t want to be kiting a bunch of stealthers that are popping in and out of stealth to avoid the combat timer being able to instantly hop on a horse to chase me down.

Mon 18 May 2020 5:28 PM by Azrael

Gohanssj wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 5:13 PM
Azrael wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 5:06 PM
Gohanssj wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 4:35 PM
You have a 1 min head start so I doubt it

Disease usually lasts longer than a minute so I doubt your doubts.
check your maths tho, in 1 min you're moving at 160% ish, desease = 10% reduction, so still 144% so you're going to have ran 44% further than them, probably at least 4k more units, out of clip range, take a turn, disappear. Its a non problem youve made up in your head

You do not have full speed instantly when getting out of combat. My point is, it will have an impact on certain situations. So it changes more than only giving solos speed.

Mon 18 May 2020 5:34 PM by Gohanssj

Azrael wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 5:28 PM
Gohanssj wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 5:13 PM
Azrael wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 5:06 PM
Disease usually lasts longer than a minute so I doubt your doubts.
check your maths tho, in 1 min you're moving at 160% ish, desease = 10% reduction, so still 144% so you're going to have ran 44% further than them, probably at least 4k more units, out of clip range, take a turn, disappear. Its a non problem youve made up in your head

You do not have full speed instantly when getting out of combat. My point is, it will have an impact on certain situations. So it changes more than only giving solos speed.

And my point is, in that scenario, you are wrong. Making up problems to suit an agenda doesn't help anything, just makes people dismiss any valid points you may later have.

Mon 18 May 2020 5:49 PM by joshisanonymous

Absolutely 100% against this. Hasteners are a good compromise and also add incentives even for solos to control towers and keeps. Mounts would break this incentive, would cut down on choke points:

These make it easier to find action solo away from the highest traffic areas

Would diminish the value of speed classes:

My aug healer has just less than hastener speed and getting up to full red speed would gimp him in every other way. Mounts with hastener speed make his speed almost completely redundant.
Caster speed is 153% and hastener 150%. If everyone has permanent access to hastener, then literally the only advantage of having speed is that it kicks in a bit quicker.

And mounts are just the most god awfully ugly things I have ever seen in my life in DAoC. Seriously. They are disgusting. DAoC has such an elegant look to it and then Live added these ridiculously gaudy mounts (not to mention adding cartoon-like armor padding and over-sized weapons, but that's another topic). Maybe I'm the only one playing who wants a semblance of immersion and class, but I simply hate what mounts do to the aesthetics of the game.

Mon 18 May 2020 5:59 PM by Azrael

Gohanssj wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 5:34 PM
Azrael wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 5:28 PM
Gohanssj wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 5:13 PM
check your maths tho, in 1 min you're moving at 160% ish, desease = 10% reduction, so still 144% so you're going to have ran 44% further than them, probably at least 4k more units, out of clip range, take a turn, disappear. Its a non problem youve made up in your head

You do not have full speed instantly when getting out of combat. My point is, it will have an impact on certain situations. So it changes more than only giving solos speed.

And my point is, in that scenario, you are wrong. Making up problems to suit an agenda doesn't help anything, just makes people dismiss any valid points you may later have.

ok, just for the record another scenario. If a group "pulls" a lot of ppl (from a bridge or similar) and they kite it is much more easier to reengage for all the solos after they are out of cc /their first speedlos.
It also does not help do claim there will be no scenarios/situation at all which will change the outcome of a fight because of the change. In general it will be much more easier to reengage for solos chasing people.

Mon 18 May 2020 6:03 PM by Gohanssj

I don't think you're understanding the fact that they can't call a mount for 1 min after combat, so if they're mezzed rooted whatever, after that ends they have 1 min, same as combi buff pot. So if they're jumping on a horse that means you've already kited a whole minute away, otherwise if they can still see you they'll be running towards you, not sitting for a min to wait on a horse

Mon 18 May 2020 6:06 PM by zan

Mount in pve, great!. RvR not so much.

Mon 18 May 2020 6:08 PM by gotwqqd

WTF is happening on this server...

Mon 18 May 2020 6:09 PM by Azrael

Gohanssj wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 6:03 PM
I don't think you're understanding the fact that they can't call a mount for 1 min after combat, so if they're mezzed rooted whatever, after that ends they have 1 min, same as combi buff pot. So if they're jumping on a horse that means you've already kited a whole minute away, otherwise if they can still see you they'll be running towards you, not sitting for a min to wait on a horse

one person keeps you in combat while the other one wait for the timer and get on his mount

Mon 18 May 2020 6:12 PM by hefrocko2

Please do not add mounts to RVR, such a terrible idea. Also, don't feel like you have to continuously release new ideas to stay relevant, think them through first. Mounts in RVR will ruin the dynamic as so many others described.

Mon 18 May 2020 6:12 PM by Durzo

My thing is, why? Why do we need mounts? We don’t, mounts would never have been a hot topic issue until it was just randomly announced they were going to be implemented. There are seemingly so many other things that should be fixed, looked into, or tuned before changing the way RVR is going to work.

The only people I see this benefiting is stealthers, and it will just help them move from xp spot to xp spot faster. Just stop ruining the solo experience these guys want by wrecking solo zones. Before any jumps down my throat about being a zerger or whatever. I usually solo as a visi or small man so I’m used to struggle. This is just not the solution to it.

Mon 18 May 2020 6:20 PM by Ashenspire

Azrael wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 6:09 PM
Gohanssj wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 6:03 PM
I don't think you're understanding the fact that they can't call a mount for 1 min after combat, so if they're mezzed rooted whatever, after that ends they have 1 min, same as combi buff pot. So if they're jumping on a horse that means you've already kited a whole minute away, otherwise if they can still see you they'll be running towards you, not sitting for a min to wait on a horse

one person keeps you in combat while the other one wait for the timer and get on his mount

What the actual hell kind of scenario is this?

Mon 18 May 2020 6:22 PM by Ashenspire

joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 5:49 PM
Absolutely 100% against this. Hasteners are a good compromise and also add incentives even for solos to control towers and keeps. Mounts would break this incentive, would cut down on choke points:
These make it easier to find action solo away from the highest traffic areas
Would diminish the value of speed classes:
My aug healer has just less than hastener speed and getting up to full red speed would gimp him in every other way. Mounts with hastener speed make his speed almost completely redundant.
Caster speed is 153% and hastener 150%. If everyone has permanent access to hastener, then literally the only advantage of having speed is that it kicks in a bit quicker.
And mounts are just the most god awfully ugly things I have ever seen in my life in DAoC. Seriously. They are disgusting. DAoC has such an elegant look to it and then Live added these ridiculously gaudy mounts (not to mention adding cartoon-like armor padding and over-sized weapons, but that's another topic). Maybe I'm the only one playing who wants a semblance of immersion and class, but I simply hate what mounts do to the aesthetics of the game.

Your Aug healers speed is already made redundant by Skalds, RMs, and hasteners.

It's not made redundant by mounts, as it doesn't take a minute to reapply your Aug healer speed.

Mon 18 May 2020 6:37 PM by joshisanonymous

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 6:22 PM
joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 5:49 PM
Absolutely 100% against this. Hasteners are a good compromise and also add incentives even for solos to control towers and keeps. Mounts would break this incentive, would cut down on choke points:
These make it easier to find action solo away from the highest traffic areas
Would diminish the value of speed classes:
My aug healer has just less than hastener speed and getting up to full red speed would gimp him in every other way. Mounts with hastener speed make his speed almost completely redundant.
Caster speed is 153% and hastener 150%. If everyone has permanent access to hastener, then literally the only advantage of having speed is that it kicks in a bit quicker.
And mounts are just the most god awfully ugly things I have ever seen in my life in DAoC. Seriously. They are disgusting. DAoC has such an elegant look to it and then Live added these ridiculously gaudy mounts (not to mention adding cartoon-like armor padding and over-sized weapons, but that's another topic). Maybe I'm the only one playing who wants a semblance of immersion and class, but I simply hate what mounts do to the aesthetics of the game.

Your Aug healers speed is already made redundant by Skalds, RMs, and hasteners.

It's not made redundant by mounts, as it doesn't take a minute to reapply your Aug healer speed.

The point is that its value is diminished further.

There's simply no need for mounts with how hasteners already work. Hasteners are a good compromise that is working out fine; mounts with hastener speed are definitely not a good compromise. As it stands, I can easily solo as a visible non-speed class by relying on hasteners, but I still have a distinct disadvantage when it comes to disengaging or kiting compared to classes that do have speed. This is how it should be, but mounts further reduce that disadvantage, and for what gain? Is this aimed at getting more people to solo or something? I guarantee you that it will still be 90% stealthers who solo even with this change, because you're still vulnerable as a visible soloer and most players aren't willing to deal with that.

Mon 18 May 2020 6:52 PM by Tyrlaan

Durzo wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 6:12 PM
The only people I see this benefiting is stealthers, and it will just help them move from xp spot to xp spot faster. Just stop ruining the solo experience these guys want by wrecking solo zones. Before any jumps down my throat about being a zerger or whatever. I usually solo as a visi or small man so I’m used to struggle. This is just not the solution to it.

I agree it benefits stealthers the most. To most other classes the 1min after combat timer makes it kinda useless (though needed for balance vs. caster speed in an on-going kite scenario). But after resolution of an encounter, by this time you can usually run to the next hastener, be it tower or dock. Even if you´re a soloer trying to stay with the BG, the BG will not wait 1min after a fight when there´s no hasteners near. But stealthers actually spend a whole lot of their time in stealth, out of combat, and can then hop on a horse to move somewhere else quickly.

Also, DAoC horses look ugly, and the whole summon/unsummon part defies immersion.

Mon 18 May 2020 7:05 PM by Azrael

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 6:20 PM
Azrael wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 6:09 PM
Gohanssj wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 6:03 PM
I don't think you're understanding the fact that they can't call a mount for 1 min after combat, so if they're mezzed rooted whatever, after that ends they have 1 min, same as combi buff pot. So if they're jumping on a horse that means you've already kited a whole minute away, otherwise if they can still see you they'll be running towards you, not sitting for a min to wait on a horse

one person keeps you in combat while the other one wait for the timer and get on his mount

What the actual hell kind of scenario is this?

That is what players will do? Everybody chases , if they can catch you doing this they will do.

Mon 18 May 2020 7:31 PM by Higach

Hardddd no on this for RvR zones. Really hope the casual player base who thinks this is a great idea isn't the majority on this one.

Mon 18 May 2020 8:13 PM by Quik

Higach wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 7:31 PM
Hardddd no on this for RvR zones. Really hope the casual player base who thinks this is a great idea isn't the majority on this one.

They probably will because it sounds great!!!!

Sad thing is, this will hurt the casual the most...

Mon 18 May 2020 8:14 PM by Slyver

Good one with the Hastener speed for RvR. But 10p is a bit much actually.

Mon 18 May 2020 8:31 PM by zan

Higach wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 7:31 PM
Hardddd no on this for RvR zones. Really hope the casual player base who thinks this is a great idea isn't the majority on this one.

wishful thinking

Mon 18 May 2020 8:53 PM by Ardri

The same people against this are probably the same people against charges being the same as buff potion values. Idiots...the lot of you.

Mon 18 May 2020 9:14 PM by Cotea

Clartiex wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 3:53 PM
This is honestly an awful idea. I do agree that it should be put to a vote, just like most other things. People will now be able to run a small man or an 8 man without even needing a bard/skald/minstrel. Slowly killing off the game a little at a time I suppose.

Mate doesn't make the main speed classes useless at all.... Lol WTF are you on?

Mon 18 May 2020 9:19 PM by Cotea

When are people going to realise chanter /RM/Sorc speed is faster then hastner, meaning you won't be using mounts when grouped with these classes unless you wanna gimp your speed for the looks of riding a horse.

When you get attacked, you have to wait 1 min to resummon, so if you are hit or hitting you lose your speed and can't just instantly resummon that horse.

Mon 18 May 2020 9:19 PM by Jingo NZ

PVE mounts = yes
RVR mounts = very much no

Adding a hastener to the solo zone and letting solo players port to zones without dieing there first will be a much better QOL than RVR mounts.

Mon 18 May 2020 10:07 PM by Ethward

Love this idea. I think people are forgetting caster speed is faster than hastner and allso the mount has a 1 min reuse after combat. There's absolutely no way it can ruin anything a caster will still gain speed before a tank. Not to mention u have to stop and whistle for your horse. People need to open there eyes a little.

Mon 18 May 2020 10:35 PM by Durzo

Ethward wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 10:07 PM
Love this idea. I think people are forgetting caster speed is faster than hastner and allso the mount has a 1 min reuse after combat. There's absolutely no way it can ruin anything a caster will still gain speed before a tank. Not to mention u have to stop and whistle for your horse. People need to open there eyes a little.

Isnt the difference in speed like 3%?

Mon 18 May 2020 10:56 PM by Taniquetil

joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 5:49 PM
These make it easier to find action solo away from the highest traffic areas

I do enjoy that you said this as if it's a negative. That's a good joke. A hearty laugh was had.

Mon 18 May 2020 11:50 PM by The Skies Asunder

I seriously can't fathom how people think locking speed (which is literally essential to be competitive in this game) into certain classes is good design. Apart from the buff bot fiasco that is healer classes in this game, making speed so entirely important, and then only giving it to a few classes is possibly the worst design element of DAoC. Can't wait to see small mans running around with whoever, and not having to wait for a speed class to join. Bring on the horses!

Tue 19 May 2020 12:15 AM by brewtus23

Man i sure hope all those crying that they are going to leave if horses are put in also stop posting on the forums as well. will be nice to quit hearing all the stupid crying. bye Felicia!!!!

Tue 19 May 2020 12:26 AM by Quik

brewtus23 wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 12:15 AM
Man i sure hope all those crying that they are going to leave if horses are put in also stop posting on the forums as well. will be nice to quit hearing all the stupid crying. bye Felicia!!!!

Well you won't hear from me, but on the flip side is your side gonna stop crying for haste charges/horses if it doesn't go in because a majority voted against it?

That's the difference, I will be gone and won't post here anymore, but the people who want it will keep whining and complaining that it ruins the game without it, even though the server is awesome right now.

We will have to continue listening to the whiners even if the vote says not to add them. Real fair huh?

Tue 19 May 2020 12:30 AM by Cotea

Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 6:52 PM
Durzo wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 6:12 PM
The only people I see this benefiting is stealthers, and it will just help them move from xp spot to xp spot faster. Just stop ruining the solo experience these guys want by wrecking solo zones. Before any jumps down my throat about being a zerger or whatever. I usually solo as a visi or small man so I’m used to struggle. This is just not the solution to it.

I agree it benefits stealthers the most. To most other classes the 1min after combat timer makes it kinda useless (though needed for balance vs. caster speed in an on-going kite scenario). But after resolution of an encounter, by this time you can usually run to the next hastener, be it tower or dock. Even if you´re a soloer trying to stay with the BG, the BG will not wait 1min after a fight when there´s no hasteners near. But stealthers actually spend a whole lot of their time in stealth, out of combat, and can then hop on a horse to move somewhere else quickly.

Also, DAoC horses look ugly, and the whole summon/unsummon part defies immersion.

Alb stealthers have minstrels..... This is a buff for mid and hib sure.... But your stupid to thing albs stealthers are going to choose horses over a minstrel

Might I add you can't ride or summon horses in stealth so this puts stealthers in a immediate disadvantage!!!!

Tue 19 May 2020 12:33 AM by exveer

Haven't read through this all to see if this has already been brought up, so forgive me if this is an old point.

But honestly mounts did a really good thing on the Classic servers, which this is most similar to. Prior, you were required to run some sort of speed class when doing anything, even small manning. Mounts allowed for more flexibility in terms of compositions, as you could actually play the game when running a smallman without a speed class. You couldn't run from bard/skald/minst of course, but at least you had a chance of not getting run over by as many larger groups that also were not running max speed classes.

So is say Vote Yes for RvR Horses! (also i wonder if I can change my vote, since I initially voted No but then thought more about it. oh well if not.)

Tue 19 May 2020 1:53 AM by joshisanonymous

Taniquetil wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 10:56 PM
joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 5:49 PM
These make it easier to find action solo away from the highest traffic areas

I do enjoy that you said this as if it's a negative. That's a good joke. A hearty laugh was had.

Think you misread my post or something? I said that having mounts means there are fewer choke points which means that it's harder to find action away from the highest traffic areas.

Tue 19 May 2020 3:18 AM by necrolove1

.

Tue 19 May 2020 3:22 AM by necrolove1

.

Tue 19 May 2020 3:22 AM by necrolove1

I think this is a good thing and I /vote 1.

TBH the way we have New Frontiers it make 0 differeance, no fights currently happen far from hasters as is (seriously go try to RvR far from a dock as solo/smallman). Anyone who is complaining about this isn't thinking, it doesn't do anything that isn't already happening in the game as is. Adding a horse that can only be used 1m after combat is extremely fair tbh. I welcome this with open arms to spread out the action a bit. Also put in box rubble quests please.

Tue 19 May 2020 3:24 AM by gotwqqd

necrolove1 wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 3:22 AM
I think this is a good thing and I /vote 1.

TBH the way we have New Frontiers it make 0 differeance, no fights currently happen far from hasters as is (seriously go try to RvR far from a dock as solo/smallman). Anyone who is complaining about this isn't thinking, it doesn't do anything that isn't already happening in the game as is. Adding a horse that can only be used 1m after combat is extremely fair tbh. I welcome this with open arms to spread out the action a bit. Also put in box rubble quests please.

That’s a poor assumption and generalization.

Tue 19 May 2020 3:32 AM by necrolove1

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 3:24 AM
necrolove1 wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 3:22 AM
I think this is a good thing and I /vote 1.

TBH the way we have New Frontiers it make 0 differeance, no fights currently happen far from hasters as is (seriously go try to RvR far from a dock as solo/smallman). Anyone who is complaining about this isn't thinking, it doesn't do anything that isn't already happening in the game as is. Adding a horse that can only be used 1m after combat is extremely fair tbh. I welcome this with open arms to spread out the action a bit. Also put in box rubble quests please.

That’s a poor assumption and generalization.

Why do you say that? Seriously, where else do you currently go for RVR that isn't already near a Hastener with a 10s cooldown on speed? because, i assure you that 99% of all Smallman/solo RvR happens within 1 min walk of a hastener. After that what is the problem?

After this it only helps tbh, people cant get a speed class in group on Zerg ( horses help)
8 man v horse group ( joke)
smallman v horse small man( joke)
Solo v Solo on horse ( no difference than fighting near a dock.)

Tue 19 May 2020 4:57 AM by CubanXv

Totally in support of this change. Hastener speed on a 1 minute cooldown will not break anything. Those that are screaming it will are petulant children in old man skin. This change brings something that has been asked for in a million other threads. We got a hard no on this early on and tons of people were upset. This flexibility shows they really are listening and caring enough to make changes for the good of the server. This can only help. How many times have you got into a fight miles from a hastener and had to autorun for 10+ minutes to either suicide(just to prevent this walk of shame) or find speed again? IDK about you, but that has happened to me HUNDREDS of times playing here and no speed in this game is f'n exhausting.

Tue 19 May 2020 4:58 AM by gotwqqd

necrolove1 wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 3:32 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 3:24 AM
necrolove1 wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 3:22 AM
I think this is a good thing and I /vote 1.

TBH the way we have New Frontiers it make 0 differeance, no fights currently happen far from hasters as is (seriously go try to RvR far from a dock as solo/smallman). Anyone who is complaining about this isn't thinking, it doesn't do anything that isn't already happening in the game as is. Adding a horse that can only be used 1m after combat is extremely fair tbh. I welcome this with open arms to spread out the action a bit. Also put in box rubble quests please.

That’s a poor assumption and generalization.

Why do you say that? Seriously, where else do you currently go for RVR that isn't already near a Hastener with a 10s cooldown on speed? because, i assure you that 99% of all Smallman/solo RvR happens within 1 min walk of a hastener. After that what is the problem?

After this it only helps tbh, people cant get a speed class in group on Zerg ( horses help)
8 man v horse group ( joke)
smallman v horse small man( joke)
Solo v Solo on horse ( no difference than fighting near a dock.)

Do you have any concept of what 99% constitutes ?

Tue 19 May 2020 6:13 AM by tndrs089

IMHO: Too expensive for new players. Especially since this is supposed to be per character.
The restrictions for rvr/pvp sound reasonable.

In general: Cool idea.

Tue 19 May 2020 6:46 AM by Sepplord

The only real downside imo will be that hasteners are less of a chokepoint after this change. Maybe the Speed should be SLIGHTLY slower than hasteners, to still give players a small incentives to cruise by a dock or similar when roaming around. It would also increase the gap between casterspeed and mounts which seems to be a worry some people have

Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 5:14 PM
And this is a form of pay to win.

Uhhh...unless the horses are sold for RL money this has nothing to do with pay2win...
just throwing hated buzzwords into the discussion doesn't help your point.

And sucking huge amounts of plat out of the game via this implementation HELPS the casuals by flattening the inflation. Economywise this would be a genius move. Gamewise, i am on the fence, but overall i like seeing how much they are doing recently for the solo-people

Tue 19 May 2020 6:59 AM by Pao

Speed has to be slower. half of hastener speed so you can speed up the way to the next hastener.

I voted no because of this and I play a visible non speed class.

Tue 19 May 2020 7:03 AM by Pao

tndrs089 wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 6:13 AM
IMHO: Too expensive for new players. Especially since this is supposed to be per character.
The restrictions for rvr/pvp sound reasonable.

In general: Cool idea.

Should be even higher to create a big money sink.

Tue 19 May 2020 7:34 AM by Raes

As a solo Friar, this will mean I can get away from the docks, and get to the Flags/high traffic areas quicker.

1min cooldown, same summon time as necro pet.

It's just a horse shaped speed potion, 10p is cheap because id spend 500g per 100 charges, if it was a pot.

it's not about chasing people down, its about moving around the map quicker.

Tue 19 May 2020 8:43 AM by Taniquetil

joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 1:53 AM
Taniquetil wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 10:56 PM
joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 5:49 PM
These make it easier to find action solo away from the highest traffic areas

I do enjoy that you said this as if it's a negative. That's a good joke. A hearty laugh was had.

Think you misread my post or something? I said that having mounts means there are fewer choke points which means that it's harder to find action away from the highest traffic areas.

Not how it reads at all, but cool, cheers for clarifying. I still feel that if given the option to roam a bit more it might mean smaller groups/solos are slightly less 'fodder' for the larger numbers now which is no bad thing.

Tue 19 May 2020 9:34 AM by Centenario

I was running behind BG without speed, only hastener speed, its really bad, you get left behind if you attack anything.
With horses in RvR, I could do some RvR, even follow the BG.

Horse should be account-wide, should unlock custom armor barding etc... from account-wide achievments.
While leveling I should be able to summon my horse to repair/dye/transmog my armor, maybe also have a bank only for pots to share accross all characters.
The move speed should grow with the level, from lvl 10 to 50, should be usable in battleground, after 50 the movespeed can grow further from attachments with durability, every 1 hour of use costs 100g.

Cant use stealth detection potion when on horse.

Tue 19 May 2020 10:33 AM by gotwqqd

Centenario wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 9:34 AM
I was running behind BG without speed, only hastener speed, its really bad, you get left behind if you attack anything.
With horses in RvR, I could do some RvR, even follow the BG.

Horse should be account-wide, should unlock custom armor barding etc... from account-wide achievments.
While leveling I should be able to summon my horse to repair/dye/transmog my armor, maybe also have a bank only for pots to share accross all characters.
The move speed should grow with the level, from lvl 10 to 50, should be usable in battleground, after 50 the movespeed can grow further from attachments with durability, every 1 hour of use costs 100g.

Cant use stealth detection potion when on horse.

Actually no
Aren’t horses said same speed as realm speed?
Majority of time you wipe or you get to see hastened after defense or successful keep/tower take.
But with hastened speed you can perma sprint... so you will be faster than mount

Tue 19 May 2020 11:26 AM by Anelyn77

I don't understand the problem with this, is not like 99% of the server will have the money to get a horse, or get it for all the toons they RvR with in all realms.

How does a mount break rvr? The speed drops same as with hastener or self speed (for classes with one) when initiating combat or being attacked, it's slower than realm speed + sprint, if you can't hit your PA / BS / side stun or snare then maybe you play the wrong class.

Are peeps so afraid that champs, thanes, reavers, bds, sms, cabalists, necros, mentalists, eldritches, wizards, VW's, BM's, mercs, zerkers, savages, warriors, arms, hero, paladins will see more play solo / duo / small w/o needing a bard / skald / minstrel? Is that actually a bad thing? Why would it?

Voting yes, and looking forward to it, can finally go solo / duo on so many classes on all 3 realms I haven't really played outside BG cause of their limitations, now finally we should see more diversity and more action spread all over, f*k checkpoints / docks.

<3

Tue 19 May 2020 2:26 PM by hefrocko2

adding mounts in RVR will also break some of the utility of non-speed 6 classes in solo/small-man rvr. Classes like chanters, sorcs, RMs, etc. whose class utility includes a speed spell will lose that edge against classes not supposed to have access to speed on a regular bases (unless they are grouped with aforementioned classes). Yes there is hastener speed, but that is a 1 time thing you lose once you engage in combat.

I support horses in PVE zones, but voting no on this because introducing them to RVR is a bad idea.

Tue 19 May 2020 2:52 PM by shintacki

hefrocko2 wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 2:26 PM
adding mounts in RVR will also break some of the utility of non-speed 6 classes in solo/small-man rvr. Classes like chanters, sorcs, RMs, etc. whose class utility includes a speed spell will lose that edge against classes not supposed to have access to speed on a regular bases (unless they are grouped with aforementioned classes). Yes there is hastener speed, but that is a 1 time thing you lose once you engage in combat.

I support horses in PVE zones, but voting no on this because introducing them to RVR is a bad idea.

I dont think sorcs and enchanters need to worry about not getting groups because of a lack of utility. Certain specs of RMs maybe.

Tue 19 May 2020 2:59 PM by joshisanonymous

Pao wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 6:59 AM
Speed has to be slower. half of hastener speed so you can speed up the way to the next hastener.

I voted no because of this and I play a visible non speed class.

This sounds much more reasonable to me. I'm not sure why only 2 speeds (basically) are ever considered, caster and speed 5, when literally any value can be used.

This would remove my concerns about how mounts might affect gameplay. I'd still vote no, however, because I can't stand what mounts do to the aesthetics of the game (i.e., they're ugly, gaudy monstrosities).

If the devs wanted to have like 130% speed that can be cast from an item or something 1 minute after leaving combat, I could get behind that.

Tue 19 May 2020 3:08 PM by joshisanonymous

CubanXv wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 4:57 AM
Totally in support of this change. Hastener speed on a 1 minute cooldown will not break anything. Those that are screaming it will are petulant children in old man skin. This change brings something that has been asked for in a million other threads. We got a hard no on this early on and tons of people were upset. This flexibility shows they really are listening and caring enough to make changes for the good of the server. This can only help. How many times have you got into a fight miles from a hastener and had to autorun for 10+ minutes to either suicide(just to prevent this walk of shame) or find speed again? IDK about you, but that has happened to me HUNDREDS of times playing here and no speed in this game is f'n exhausting.

If this has happened hundreds of times to you, then you spend a lot of time hunting XPers. Seriously, what other fights are you finding so far away from a dock or a tower that you own that this has happened to you hundreds of times?

This is another point against hastener speed mounts, though. Do you think anyone who farms XPers are gonna bypass your greys if they can get their speed back after just one minute? Hell no. Losing speed is currently one of the disincentives to killing greys in the frontier, because who wants to lose their speed just to kill some people who don't give RPs? But if you can get your speed right back, why not? That's gonna be what a lot of these XPer hunters are gonna think if this change goes in.

Tue 19 May 2020 3:21 PM by Quik

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 6:46 AM
The only real downside imo will be that hasteners are less of a chokepoint after this change. Maybe the Speed should be SLIGHTLY slower than hasteners, to still give players a small incentives to cruise by a dock or similar when roaming around. It would also increase the gap between casterspeed and mounts which seems to be a worry some people have

Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 5:14 PM
And this is a form of pay to win.

Uhhh...unless the horses are sold for RL money this has nothing to do with pay2win...
just throwing hated buzzwords into the discussion doesn't help your point.

And sucking huge amounts of plat out of the game via this implementation HELPS the casuals by flattening the inflation. Economywise this would be a genius move. Gamewise, i am on the fence, but overall i like seeing how much they are doing recently for the solo-people

I said it is a FORM of pay to win and I explained that as meaning it will just separate the rich from the no rich by giving the rich even more options than the poorer players.

I get the need to help the economy, but doing it where you are giving favoritism to richer players with something like this is a bad way to go.

Tue 19 May 2020 3:48 PM by Pylania

Ich lese hier nur QQ.

Endlich kommen die Reittiere!!! MEGA!

Tue 19 May 2020 4:04 PM by pollojack

Blevox wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 2:43 PM
So a huuuuuge nerf to the casterspeed classes to dodge while solo on RvR?
Not Fan of the mounts in PvP Zones, other than that, HELL YEA!

Doesn't caster speed tick kick in before 1 min? If you are fleeing or chasing you will still be at advantage. Additionally, solos wont be mounted 24/7 as that will be a beacon to 3+ groups.

Tue 19 May 2020 4:34 PM by necrolove1

Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 3:21 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 6:46 AM
The only real downside imo will be that hasteners are less of a chokepoint after this change. Maybe the Speed should be SLIGHTLY slower than hasteners, to still give players a small incentives to cruise by a dock or similar when roaming around. It would also increase the gap between casterspeed and mounts which seems to be a worry some people have

Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 5:14 PM
And this is a form of pay to win.

Uhhh...unless the horses are sold for RL money this has nothing to do with pay2win...
just throwing hated buzzwords into the discussion doesn't help your point.

And sucking huge amounts of plat out of the game via this implementation HELPS the casuals by flattening the inflation. Economywise this would be a genius move. Gamewise, i am on the fence, but overall i like seeing how much they are doing recently for the solo-people

I said it is a FORM of pay to win and I explained that as meaning it will just separate the rich from the no rich by giving the rich even more options than the poorer players.

I get the need to help the economy, but doing it where you are giving favoritism to richer players with something like this is a bad way to go.

It's not a form of pay to win, P2W is when i give a company real money to get a access to advantages faster, then it becomes about who can pay more money to be stronger.

in this case there is no real money, the rich players had to work just as hard as the new players to get the money 5-10p no shortcuts.

IMO players rich/poor need things to work for, thats what keeps the game going. i think 5-10p is too cheap tbh.

Tue 19 May 2020 4:46 PM by necrolove1

shintacki wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 2:52 PM
hefrocko2 wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 2:26 PM
adding mounts in RVR will also break some of the utility of non-speed 6 classes in solo/small-man rvr. Classes like chanters, sorcs, RMs, etc. whose class utility includes a speed spell will lose that edge against classes not supposed to have access to speed on a regular bases (unless they are grouped with aforementioned classes). Yes there is hastener speed, but that is a 1 time thing you lose once you engage in combat.

I support horses in PVE zones, but voting no on this because introducing them to RVR is a bad idea.

I dont think sorcs and enchanters need to worry about not getting groups because of a lack of utility. Certain specs of RMs maybe.

Why is this even being discussed? horses pose ZERO threat to replacing a secondary speed class in a group for many reasons. I mean we've already done this experiment on live, speed of the hunt / horses (even at speed 5) didn't replace these classes usefulness in groups what so ever. Please explain your reasoning...

Tue 19 May 2020 5:34 PM by Centenario

Would necro be able to use it while in ghost form?

Tue 19 May 2020 6:13 PM by Caemma

EIther add more hastener on the frontiers..
Or put mounts but with more than 1 minute CD, since when you have a long inc.. 60s isn't that much.
3 minutes would probably make more sense and avoid ruining kiting incs.

Who says otherwise it's just cause they really want an advantage over speed classes instead of a tool to allow non speed classes to actually have a reason to roam a little away from keeps/docks.

Tue 19 May 2020 6:25 PM by necrolove1

Caemma wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 6:13 PM
EIther add more hastener on the frontiers..
Or put mounts but with more than 1 minute CD, since when you have a long inc.. 60s isn't that much.
3 minutes would probably make more sense and avoid ruining kiting incs.

Who says otherwise it's just cause they really want an advantage over speed classes instead of a tool to allow non speed classes to actually have a reason to roam a little away from keeps/docks.

how does a horse with a 1 min out of combat timer ruin a kite or give you and advantage over a speed class?

Tue 19 May 2020 7:39 PM by Caemma

necrolove1 wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 6:25 PM
Caemma wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 6:13 PM
EIther add more hastener on the frontiers..
Or put mounts but with more than 1 minute CD, since when you have a long inc.. 60s isn't that much.
3 minutes would probably make more sense and avoid ruining kiting incs.

Who says otherwise it's just cause they really want an advantage over speed classes instead of a tool to allow non speed classes to actually have a reason to roam a little away from keeps/docks.

how does a horse with a 1 min out of combat timer ruin a kite or give you and advantage over a speed class?

I guess you haven't kited if you ask me that question...
Immunities for magical CCs are 1 minute long, ever happened to apply a second time a CC on the same fight?

I believe (correct me if i'm wrong ofc) that those rvr horses would serve to help out ppl travel around the frontier when there is no speed or hastener around.. and not to help recover (or flee) in a fight.. so why 3 minutes would be an issue for such amenity?

Tue 19 May 2020 8:10 PM by necrolove1

Caemma wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 7:39 PM
necrolove1 wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 6:25 PM
Caemma wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 6:13 PM
EIther add more hastener on the frontiers..
Or put mounts but with more than 1 minute CD, since when you have a long inc.. 60s isn't that much.
3 minutes would probably make more sense and avoid ruining kiting incs.

Who says otherwise it's just cause they really want an advantage over speed classes instead of a tool to allow non speed classes to actually have a reason to roam a little away from keeps/docks.

how does a horse with a 1 min out of combat timer ruin a kite or give you and advantage over a speed class?
I guess you haven't kited if you ask me that question...
Immunities for magical CCs are 1 minute long, ever happened to apply a second time a CC on the same fight?

I believe (correct me if i'm wrong ofc) that those rvr horses would serve to help out ppl travel around the frontier when there is no speed or hastener around.. and not to help recover (or flee) in a fight.. so why 3 minutes would be an issue for such amenity?

I kite, quite often, apparently you don't if you think you can leave your opponent out of combat for 1 minute and allow them to get a horse up is normal. Waiting a minute for immunity timer to fall off, and waiting a minute to be out of ANY type of combat is completly different, here is an approriate comparison... have you ever tried to pop a combined forces pot in battle, very difficult to do without leaving the battle isn't it? most times you have to pull off and sit out the timer before you pop your pots again, it'll be the same with the proposed horses.

Read the proposal again, you can only summon the horse if you are out of combat for 60 seconds, its not a 60 second cooldown. So yes, i'm correcting you because you are wrong. they will not help you flee ( you have to stop and summon a horse...) , they will not help you recover. The proposed horses will be no more helpful than having Hasnter speed on at the begining of battle.

Even on live it is damn near impossible to use a horse in a battle, and theirs is faster and on a 10 second out of combat timer.

Tue 19 May 2020 8:10 PM by Anelyn77

There is no issue peeps just QQ because they think it makes them look cool. Any decent player knows that this will have 0 (ZERO) effect in RvR regarding the outcome of an engagement.

They complain if the classes without speed will see more play outside BG, as much as they complain that same classes are too abundant WITHIN BGs. Ya know what? Time to put those greymatter muscles into action if you want RPs, I'll have an amazing time with several classes (including BD, Animist, Necro, Reaver, Mentalist, Eldritch, Cabalist, BM, Champ, Thane) using the new mounts to just school you whiners into proper RvR. Bwuhuhuhu no classes that wouldn't exist in RvR now will come out in NF and we can't 1v1 xv1 that class cause we have no clue what we're doing.

Can't freaking wait, this will be insane fun. Let the RP tears pour and reborn the action in NF! \o/

<3

Tue 19 May 2020 8:18 PM by Koros

I don't care what affects it will have.

I play here because I want the classic feel of DAoC. It's why the majority of people I know play here. I didn't join a classic server to have a handful of people want to change it to a mix of classic and other expansions, there are multiple freeshards and live where you can have this experience. This whole thing is what killed mmo's as a genre.. games built to be one thing, trying to change to make EVERYONE happy. Like solo'rs complaining in a large scale war game, there is no solo life. Ok? Then play a game that caters to solo or small man pvp instead? Do you also go to a chicken shack and complain when they won't make you a burger?

So those dedicated core who played the game for what it was, quit, and those fotm game hoppers who are never happy leave, and the game ends up dead. It will happen here also. There are SO MANY THINGS that time could be spent on to further the lifespan of this server, and horses aren't one of them.

Why not add more housing zones? Why not fix the lame market search system to allow things like Boolean searches? How about fixing class balance? Why not fix a number of other issues like the horrible clip planes, targeting issues, or the myriad of other things that would improve the daily lives of players instead of adding plat sinks for players who spent their whole lives farming and now need a plat sink.

/shrug. Whatever. This small leakage of things that were promised never to show up here just makes me wonder if I am wasting my time playing here.

Tue 19 May 2020 8:21 PM by necrolove1

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 8:10 PM
There is no issue peeps just QQ because they think it makes them look cool. Any decent player knows that this will have 0 (ZERO) effect in RvR regarding the outcome of an engagement.

They complain if the classes without speed will see more play outside BG, as much as they complain that same classes are too abundant WITHIN BGs. Ya know what? Time to put those greymatter muscles into action if you want RPs, I'll have an amazing time with several classes (including BD, Animist, Necro, Reaver, Mentalist, Eldritch, Cabalist, BM, Champ, Thane) using the new mounts to just school you whiners into proper RvR. Bwuhuhuhu no classes that wouldn't exist in RvR now will come out in NF and we can't 1v1 xv1 that class cause we have no clue what we're doing.

Can't freaking wait, this will be insane fun. Let the RP tears pour and reborn the action in NF! \o/

<3

As far as combat goes horses won't help any more than hastener speed does, it just means non-speed classes no longer have to hug hastener locations for fights. Any complaints about the horses presented are just not thought out. There is no arguement against the proposal, it the way NF is today.

Tue 19 May 2020 8:32 PM by Durzo

necrolove1 wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 8:21 PM
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 8:10 PM
There is no issue peeps just QQ because they think it makes them look cool. Any decent player knows that this will have 0 (ZERO) effect in RvR regarding the outcome of an engagement.

They complain if the classes without speed will see more play outside BG, as much as they complain that same classes are too abundant WITHIN BGs. Ya know what? Time to put those greymatter muscles into action if you want RPs, I'll have an amazing time with several classes (including BD, Animist, Necro, Reaver, Mentalist, Eldritch, Cabalist, BM, Champ, Thane) using the new mounts to just school you whiners into proper RvR. Bwuhuhuhu no classes that wouldn't exist in RvR now will come out in NF and we can't 1v1 xv1 that class cause we have no clue what we're doing.

Can't freaking wait, this will be insane fun. Let the RP tears pour and reborn the action in NF! \o/

<3

As far as combat goes horses won't help any more than hastener speed does, it just means non-speed classes no longer have to hug hastener locations for fights. Any complaints about the horses presented are just not thought out. There is no arguement against the proposal, it the way NF is today.

Or if you want mounts that bad, go play live. Why do we need more live features in what is supposed to a classic style server?

Tue 19 May 2020 8:36 PM by necrolove1

Durzo wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 8:32 PM
necrolove1 wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 8:21 PM
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 8:10 PM
There is no issue peeps just QQ because they think it makes them look cool. Any decent player knows that this will have 0 (ZERO) effect in RvR regarding the outcome of an engagement.

They complain if the classes without speed will see more play outside BG, as much as they complain that same classes are too abundant WITHIN BGs. Ya know what? Time to put those greymatter muscles into action if you want RPs, I'll have an amazing time with several classes (including BD, Animist, Necro, Reaver, Mentalist, Eldritch, Cabalist, BM, Champ, Thane) using the new mounts to just school you whiners into proper RvR. Bwuhuhuhu no classes that wouldn't exist in RvR now will come out in NF and we can't 1v1 xv1 that class cause we have no clue what we're doing.

Can't freaking wait, this will be insane fun. Let the RP tears pour and reborn the action in NF! \o/

<3

As far as combat goes horses won't help any more than hastener speed does, it just means non-speed classes no longer have to hug hastener locations for fights. Any complaints about the horses presented are just not thought out. There is no arguement against the proposal, it the way NF is today.
Or if you want mounts that bad, go play live. Why do we need more live features in what is supposed to a classic style server?

Classic style server ship set sail a long time ago.

There is also a freeshard where you can live out your purely classic experience its called Uthgard the servers are still Online. There is a reason Phoenix is still alive and well after 1 year, because of changes that were needed to vanilla. Like it or not many things needed to change to make the experience better. I don't think it should turn into live, but i also dont think it should ignore things Live did right while at the same time learning from things live did wrong.

Tue 19 May 2020 9:25 PM by Durzo

necrolove1 wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 8:36 PM
Durzo wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 8:32 PM
necrolove1 wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 8:21 PM
As far as combat goes horses won't help any more than hastener speed does, it just means non-speed classes no longer have to hug hastener locations for fights. Any complaints about the horses presented are just not thought out. There is no arguement against the proposal, it the way NF is today.
Or if you want mounts that bad, go play live. Why do we need more live features in what is supposed to a classic style server?

Classic style server ship set sail a long time ago.

There is also a freeshard where you can live out your purely classic experience its called Uthgard the servers are still Online. There is a reason Phoenix is still alive and well after 1 year, because of changes that were needed to vanilla. Like it or not many things needed to change to make the experience better. I don't think it should turn into live, but i also dont think it should ignore things Live did right while at the same time learning from things live did wrong.

You are right about that, making NEEDED changes to the vanilla version of the game is why this server is successful. Things like progression, class tuning, and realm balancing all needed work. Adding mounts and welfare high utility rogs don’t seem like something that needs to happen. I’m all for speeding up open world travel because it’s tedious for everyone. But the frontiers are a ‘delicate ecosystem’ so every small changes has a much larger effect. There is a reason uthgard is dead, and a reason live is basically dead. If things aren’t broken they shouldn’t be fixed.

Tue 19 May 2020 9:32 PM by lolhisup

I think this will make the game more fun in my opinion.

Tue 19 May 2020 11:43 PM by Caemma

necrolove1 wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 8:10 PM
Caemma wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 7:39 PM
necrolove1 wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 6:25 PM
how does a horse with a 1 min out of combat timer ruin a kite or give you and advantage over a speed class?
I guess you haven't kited if you ask me that question...
Immunities for magical CCs are 1 minute long, ever happened to apply a second time a CC on the same fight?

I believe (correct me if i'm wrong ofc) that those rvr horses would serve to help out ppl travel around the frontier when there is no speed or hastener around.. and not to help recover (or flee) in a fight.. so why 3 minutes would be an issue for such amenity?

I kite, quite often, apparently you don't if you think you can leave your opponent out of combat for 1 minute and allow them to get a horse up is normal. Waiting a minute for immunity timer to fall off, and waiting a minute to be out of ANY type of combat is completly different, here is an approriate comparison... have you ever tried to pop a combined forces pot in battle, very difficult to do without leaving the battle isn't it? most times you have to pull off and sit out the timer before you pop your pots again, it'll be the same with the proposed horses.

Read the proposal again, you can only summon the horse if you are out of combat for 60 seconds, its not a 60 second cooldown. So yes, i'm correcting you because you are wrong. they will not help you flee ( you have to stop and summon a horse...) , they will not help you recover. The proposed horses will be no more helpful than having Hasnter speed on at the begining of battle.

Even on live it is damn near impossible to use a horse in a battle, and theirs is faster and on a 10 second out of combat timer.

I guess I should have specified that i was referring to small fights, where you often engage more than your actual number.

Here is an example: you open up with a root on the backline cause you engaged a larger group... then you start kiting/handling the rest... and you know that this guy is going to be "out" cause has no speed and being far in the back... but at some point while the kiting is still going this guy is gonna start coming back... and with 60s horse CD he actually can summon the horse after 15ish seconds root is over (cause it doesnt reset the combined forces potion timer) and get more speed than the kiters (which being in combat put them at sprint speed top) he can avoids the tanker and et voilà he's not only back in combat earlier, but can even circumvent your peeler that is in combat and reach your backline for "free" (cause he's not intended to have speed).

Hope you understand my concern now.

Don't get me wrong, I actually support the idea of horses cause it gives more chance of roaming to solo and smalls without speed so that they can leave docks & keeps & gates more often than now, but as a smallman veteran I don't really like the idea of seeing someone without speed I once CC'ed behind come thru everyone cause he is on the horse.
Putting such timer to 2 minutes (like item charges) would definitely make it basically impossible to happen.

Wed 20 May 2020 4:08 AM by CubanXv

joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 3:08 PM
CubanXv wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 4:57 AM
Totally in support of this change. Hastener speed on a 1 minute cooldown will not break anything. Those that are screaming it will are petulant children in old man skin. This change brings something that has been asked for in a million other threads. We got a hard no on this early on and tons of people were upset. This flexibility shows they really are listening and caring enough to make changes for the good of the server. This can only help. How many times have you got into a fight miles from a hastener and had to autorun for 10+ minutes to either suicide(just to prevent this walk of shame) or find speed again? IDK about you, but that has happened to me HUNDREDS of times playing here and no speed in this game is f'n exhausting.

If this has happened hundreds of times to you, then you spend a lot of time hunting XPers. Seriously, what other fights are you finding so far away from a dock or a tower that you own that this has happened to you hundreds of times?

This is another point against hastener speed mounts, though. Do you think anyone who farms XPers are gonna bypass your greys if they can get their speed back after just one minute? Hell no. Losing speed is currently one of the disincentives to killing greys in the frontier, because who wants to lose their speed just to kill some people who don't give RPs? But if you can get your speed right back, why not? That's gonna be what a lot of these XPer hunters are gonna think if this change goes in.

Scenarios such as when a realm only has a couple of ports in other lands. I will try and follow the action, hunting xp'ers is not my jam. Time how long it takes to autorun from that crim valley south to the dock without speed. Time how long it takes from the solo zone to the dock without speed if you catch a fight in there. Majority xp hunters have speed, citing the numerous minstrels skalds and chanters that have eaten all of my chars since the servers onset.

Wed 20 May 2020 6:49 AM by Sepplord

Koros wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 8:18 PM
I didn't join a classic server to have a handful of people want to change it to a mix of classic and other expansions, there are multiple freeshards and live where you can have this experience.

There'S quite a bit of irony in there, considering there was a pure classic server that died before Phoenix opened its gates.
You claim to talk for the majority but i believe you are suffering from an echochamber if you really believe that the majority wants a pure classic freeshard, yet they all didn't want to play Uthgard

Wed 20 May 2020 9:38 AM by Cadebrennus

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 6:49 AM
Koros wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 8:18 PM
I didn't join a classic server to have a handful of people want to change it to a mix of classic and other expansions, there are multiple freeshards and live where you can have this experience.

There'S quite a bit of irony in there, considering there was a pure classic server that died before Phoenix opened its gates.
You claim to talk for the majority but i believe you are suffering from an echochamber if you really believe that the majority wants a pure classic freeshard, yet they all didn't want to play Uthgard

Agreed 100%. This would even make players like me want to play more often. I've been gone since the PvP zone circle-jerk fest opened, plus I've been super busy on a RL project. This would make the game worth coming back to, especially for casuals.

Wed 20 May 2020 11:26 AM by Cotea

Koros wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 8:18 PM
I don't care what affects it will have.

I play here because I want the classic feel of DAoC. It's why the majority of people I know play here. I didn't join a classic server to have a handful of people want to change it to a mix of classic and other expansions, there are multiple freeshards and live where you can have this experience. This whole thing is what killed mmo's as a genre.. games built to be one thing, trying to change to make EVERYONE happy. Like solo'rs complaining in a large scale war game, there is no solo life. Ok? Then play a game that caters to solo or small man pvp instead? Do you also go to a chicken shack and complain when they won't make you a burger?

So those dedicated core who played the game for what it was, quit, and those fotm game hoppers who are never happy leave, and the game ends up dead. It will happen here also. There are SO MANY THINGS that time could be spent on to further the lifespan of this server, and horses aren't one of them.

Why not add more housing zones? Why not fix the lame market search system to allow things like Boolean searches? How about fixing class balance? Why not fix a number of other issues like the horrible clip planes, targeting issues, or the myriad of other things that would improve the daily lives of players instead of adding plat sinks for players who spent their whole lives farming and now need a plat sink.

/shrug. Whatever. This small leakage of things that were promised never to show up here just makes me wonder if I am wasting my time playing here.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! Mate, Classic Server went out the window alooooong time ago, this is just a custom server now!

Wed 20 May 2020 1:48 PM by ularewolf

It's horses, calm down everyone, it won't break anything. When horses were added to Live DAoC, I never once thought, "Welp, the game is broken now!" Horses are a QoL addition, which this server focuses on for the most part, QoL improvements. Even classes with slow speed will still have an edge than people on horses, because it'll take 1 minute to even remount it. Maybe in fringe situations it'll give some sort of 'edge', but those will be rare. This mainly will help solo/small-man groups with no speed to go to other places other than dock-camping, which frees up choke points and campers and will most likely smooth out a lot of the RvR issues for non-zerg/8-man groups.

Wed 20 May 2020 2:57 PM by exveer

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 9:38 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 6:49 AM
Koros wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 8:18 PM
I didn't join a classic server to have a handful of people want to change it to a mix of classic and other expansions, there are multiple freeshards and live where you can have this experience.

There'S quite a bit of irony in there, considering there was a pure classic server that died before Phoenix opened its gates.
You claim to talk for the majority but i believe you are suffering from an echochamber if you really believe that the majority wants a pure classic freeshard, yet they all didn't want to play Uthgard

Agreed 100%. This would even make players like me want to play more often. I've been gone since the PvP zone circle-jerk fest opened, plus I've been super busy on a RL project. This would make the game worth coming back to, especially for casuals.

FWIW the PvP zone circle-jerk is over, it has like 2 people in it at most hours these days. So come on in, the water's warm.

Wed 20 May 2020 3:58 PM by Cadebrennus

exveer wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 2:57 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 9:38 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 6:49 AM
There'S quite a bit of irony in there, considering there was a pure classic server that died before Phoenix opened its gates.
You claim to talk for the majority but i believe you are suffering from an echochamber if you really believe that the majority wants a pure classic freeshard, yet they all didn't want to play Uthgard

Agreed 100%. This would even make players like me want to play more often. I've been gone since the PvP zone circle-jerk fest opened, plus I've been super busy on a RL project. This would make the game worth coming back to, especially for casuals.

FWIW the PvP zone circle-jerk is over, it has like 2 people in it at most hours these days. So come on in, the water's warm.

The real question is, how much were they able to pad their RRs without any consequences for RP farming?

Wed 20 May 2020 4:00 PM by necrolove1

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 6:49 AM
Koros wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 8:18 PM
I didn't join a classic server to have a handful of people want to change it to a mix of classic and other expansions, there are multiple freeshards and live where you can have this experience.

There'S quite a bit of irony in there, considering there was a pure classic server that died before Phoenix opened its gates.
You claim to talk for the majority but i believe you are suffering from an echochamber if you really believe that the majority wants a pure classic freeshard, yet they all didn't want to play Uthgard

PREACHER TEACHER!

Wed 20 May 2020 4:03 PM by necrolove1

ularewolf wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 1:48 PM
It's horses, calm down everyone, it won't break anything. When horses were added to Live DAoC, I never once thought, "Welp, the game is broken now!" Horses are a QoL addition, which this server focuses on for the most part, QoL improvements. Even classes with slow speed will still have an edge than people on horses, because it'll take 1 minute to even remount it. Maybe in fringe situations it'll give some sort of 'edge', but those will be rare. This mainly will help solo/small-man groups with no speed to go to other places other than dock-camping, which frees up choke points and campers and will most likely smooth out a lot of the RvR issues for non-zerg/8-man groups.

exactly! Some people in here are so focused on the .00000000000003% chance of it effecting their gameplay, while it can help many more at the same time.

Wed 20 May 2020 4:06 PM by Runental

Mounts are great to spread out the action for casual/solo/small.. Totally bullshit ppl saying stealthers benefit the most.
Back in the days when Uthgard 1 implemented horses, it worked very well with the combat flag timer... No reason to pray the world's end.

Wed 20 May 2020 5:11 PM by Koros

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 6:49 AM
Koros wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 8:18 PM
I didn't join a classic server to have a handful of people want to change it to a mix of classic and other expansions, there are multiple freeshards and live where you can have this experience.

There'S quite a bit of irony in there, considering there was a pure classic server that died before Phoenix opened its gates.
You claim to talk for the majority but i believe you are suffering from an echochamber if you really believe that the majority wants a pure classic freeshard, yet they all didn't want to play Uthgard

Quote the whole post, but nice try. I said I play here for the CLASSIC FEEL. I never said I wanted a strict classic server. The only one in an echo chamber is you. You are trying to claim because YOU want horses you speak for the majority? Doubt it, considering almost every single person I play with does not want horses. But hey, I mean I was dropped off my boat 3-4 times today only to be warped into a full group of campers at the drop spot, which I wasn't even wanting to be at to begin with... the market search is horrible and archaic, housing is a mess, but at least we are going to get HORSES!!! WOOOOOOO!!!

Why not play a game that fits what you want instead of always joining a game and trying to force it to cater to change? Is server population a problem? Do you think horses is going to bring hundreds more people here? No. If anything it will lose people... so why exactly would we want time wasted on this? Oh right, because YOU and 25 other people on the forum want it? /laugh. The fact you had to selectively quote my post to try and make your point sound more valid says a lot about the lack of what you have to say.

/shrug I don't care. I'm old, ill find a different hobby.

Wed 20 May 2020 6:06 PM by necrolove1

Koros wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 5:11 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 6:49 AM
Koros wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 8:18 PM
I didn't join a classic server to have a handful of people want to change it to a mix of classic and other expansions, there are multiple freeshards and live where you can have this experience.

There'S quite a bit of irony in there, considering there was a pure classic server that died before Phoenix opened its gates.
You claim to talk for the majority but i believe you are suffering from an echochamber if you really believe that the majority wants a pure classic freeshard, yet they all didn't want to play Uthgard

Quote the whole post, but nice try. I said I play here for the CLASSIC FEEL. I never said I wanted a strict classic server. The only one in an echo chamber is you. You are trying to claim because YOU want horses you speak for the majority? Doubt it, considering almost every single person I play with does not want horses. But hey, I mean I was dropped off my boat 3-4 times today only to be warped into a full group of campers at the drop spot, which I wasn't even wanting to be at to begin with... the market search is horrible and archaic, housing is a mess, but at least we are going to get HORSES!!! WOOOOOOO!!!

Why not play a game that fits what you want instead of always joining a game and trying to force it to cater to change? Is server population a problem? Do you think horses is going to bring hundreds more people here? No. If anything it will lose people... so why exactly would we want time wasted on this? Oh right, because YOU and 25 other people on the forum want it? /laugh. The fact you had to selectively quote my post to try and make your point sound more valid says a lot about the lack of what you have to say.

/shrug I don't care. I'm old, ill find a different hobby.

If you lag off the boat type /dismount (not /disembark) to get off the boat where you think it is (not a solution, but it does work until something better is in place)

I agree with you about market search, especially with a game so heavily focused on Utility, but not sure if this can even be fixed in the UI, seeing as how most freeshards cannot create new assets.

Housing lots etc. has had a fix and been addressed.

The Devs/admins are adressing these problems, while coming up with new things.

Just replying to some of your complaints, now back to horses. To counter argue everyone of my friends would love the idea of a horse in RVR.

Lets be serious though for one second, the negative impact of a horse in rvr is very very minimal given that this system already exsists with most players running around with hastener speed. I like the classic feel of DAOC though changes are neccesary maybe even down the road expantion level changes are necessary to keep the server going. Which is why a Developer ( and not a player) posted this and made a /vote.

Wed 20 May 2020 6:16 PM by piero

Tbh u can t call Phoenix server a classic daoc, it is a custom server really far from the normal classic, so mounts are ok too, as other stuff in game

Wed 20 May 2020 6:19 PM by necrolove1

piero wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 6:16 PM
Tbh u can t call Phoenix server a classic daoc, it is a custom server really far from the normal classic, so mounts are ok too, as other stuff in game

I agree with this, i tire of seeing people say its a classic sever this was not in 1.29348324 patch!!! They would prefer it never changed, and just died out i think. Phoenix is not a classic server, that ship has sailed longggg ago.

Wed 20 May 2020 7:34 PM by Durzo

So it seems like the opinion mounts is split down the middle, just the impression I’m getting. Can we all atleast agree that implementing changes that don’t have overwhelming support (i.e Archery buff, gtaoe fix, pet cap) probably should not be implemented? If the game had a large population that could afford to have the unhappy people quit I’d say who cares. But for my time zone there is maybe 100-200 people total in the frontiers including the afks. I don’t think we can afford to lose anyone, and saying “if you don’t like this change, then quit cya later” is not a good solution.

Wed 20 May 2020 9:04 PM by Koros

necrolove1 wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 6:06 PM
Koros wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 5:11 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 6:49 AM
There'S quite a bit of irony in there, considering there was a pure classic server that died before Phoenix opened its gates.
You claim to talk for the majority but i believe you are suffering from an echochamber if you really believe that the majority wants a pure classic freeshard, yet they all didn't want to play Uthgard

Quote the whole post, but nice try. I said I play here for the CLASSIC FEEL. I never said I wanted a strict classic server. The only one in an echo chamber is you. You are trying to claim because YOU want horses you speak for the majority? Doubt it, considering almost every single person I play with does not want horses. But hey, I mean I was dropped off my boat 3-4 times today only to be warped into a full group of campers at the drop spot, which I wasn't even wanting to be at to begin with... the market search is horrible and archaic, housing is a mess, but at least we are going to get HORSES!!! WOOOOOOO!!!

Why not play a game that fits what you want instead of always joining a game and trying to force it to cater to change? Is server population a problem? Do you think horses is going to bring hundreds more people here? No. If anything it will lose people... so why exactly would we want time wasted on this? Oh right, because YOU and 25 other people on the forum want it? /laugh. The fact you had to selectively quote my post to try and make your point sound more valid says a lot about the lack of what you have to say.

/shrug I don't care. I'm old, ill find a different hobby.

If you lag off the boat type /dismount (not /disembark) to get off the boat where you think it is (not a solution, but it does work until something better is in place)

I agree with you about market search, especially with a game so heavily focused on Utility, but not sure if this can even be fixed in the UI, seeing as how most freeshards cannot create new assets.

Housing lots etc. has had a fix and been addressed.

The Devs/admins are adressing these problems, while coming up with new things.

Just replying to some of your complaints, now back to horses. To counter argue everyone of my friends would love the idea of a horse in RVR.

Lets be serious though for one second, the negative impact of a horse in rvr is very very minimal given that this system already exsists with most players running around with hastener speed. I like the classic feel of DAOC though changes are neccesary maybe even down the road expantion level changes are necessary to keep the server going. Which is why a Developer ( and not a player) posted this and made a /vote.

Thanks had no idea this stops the warping!

Wed 20 May 2020 9:33 PM by Luluko

nice might be time to login again and level something to 50 if that with horses in pvp really comes.

but I guess all the bridge campers especially stealthers wouldnt like it if their prey can just avoid them and play somewhere else.

Thu 21 May 2020 2:32 AM by Durzo

Luluko wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 9:33 PM
nice might be time to login again and level something to 50 if that with horses in pvp really comes.

but I guess all the bridge campers especially stealthers wouldnt like it if their prey can just avoid them and play somewhere else.

Huh? You realize they can get on mounts and follow you wherever you go still right? Instead of running out of the keep and getting jumped. You’ll ride around on that ugly horse for about 5 minutes then still get jumped.

Thu 21 May 2020 9:11 AM by Luluko

Durzo wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 2:32 AM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 9:33 PM
nice might be time to login again and level something to 50 if that with horses in pvp really comes.

but I guess all the bridge campers especially stealthers wouldnt like it if their prey can just avoid them and play somewhere else.

Huh? You realize they can get on mounts and follow you wherever you go still right? Instead of running out of the keep and getting jumped. You’ll ride around on that ugly horse for about 5 minutes then still get jumped.

Sure but they wont catch up and I can suicide on guards if lets say 3+ stealthers decide to follow me arround on a horse. Then they wasted their time I have the last laugh. Next time they wont follow.

Thu 21 May 2020 12:48 PM by necrolove1

Durzo wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 2:32 AM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 9:33 PM
nice might be time to login again and level something to 50 if that with horses in pvp really comes.

but I guess all the bridge campers especially stealthers wouldnt like it if their prey can just avoid them and play somewhere else.

Huh? You realize they can get on mounts and follow you wherever you go still right? Instead of running out of the keep and getting jumped. You’ll ride around on that ugly horse for about 5 minutes then still get jumped.

they already have the ability to do this, horses doesn't change anything, when i play my stealther i almost always have hastener speed on.

Thu 21 May 2020 1:25 PM by

gruenesschaf

The vote has ended, results:
Total votes 2166
In favor of rvr hastener speed horses: 1107, that's 51.1%
Against rvr hastener speed horses: 1059, that's 48.9%

While that's still a majority in favor of rvr hastener horses, given the margin we're now going to do the following:
The horses will go in as announced for PvE with speed 5 and will remain.
For RvR they will also go in as announced, however, 3 - 7 days after the introduction the vote will be repeated. The 3 - 7 days are there to give us time to fix the bugs and so that everyone had a chance to actually experience the effects of hastener speed horses in rvr first hand to then make an informed vote afterwards.

Once the horses go live and until the new vote has ended every level 50 character will be able to summon a horse in the frontier without having to have bought it. It will be one of the basic models with no customization unless you bought it. After the vote this free rvr horse access will be removed regardless of the vote outcome.

Thu 21 May 2020 1:40 PM by Shamissa

How about saddle to carry sieges?

Thu 21 May 2020 1:46 PM by stonesouldier

I think another option/compromise could be to leave them in RvR but extend the horse summoning time to like 10 sec or so. That would make it nearly impossible to yeet out of a possible fight and make them only useful for covering distance away from combat.
Or make them only summon-able near a keep your realm controls.

Thu 21 May 2020 1:54 PM by Tanakeo

just put in speed of the realm scrolls for BP's. job done

Thu 21 May 2020 1:59 PM by romulus

Hi!
Is there going to be a level cap for using horses? Will we be seeing horses in, say, Thidranki?

:hugs:

Thu 21 May 2020 2:04 PM by necrolove1

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 1:25 PM
The vote has ended, results:
Total votes 2166
In favor of rvr hastener speed horses: 1107, that's 51.1%
Against rvr hastener speed horses: 1059, that's 48.9%

While that's still a majority in favor of rvr hastener horses, given the margin we're now going to do the following:
The horses will go in as announced for PvE with speed 5 and will remain.
For RvR they will also go in as announced, however, 3 - 7 days after the introduction the vote will be repeated. The 3 - 7 days are there to give us time to fix the bugs and so that everyone had a chance to actually experience the effects of hastener speed horses in rvr first hand to then make an informed vote afterwards.

Once the horses go live and until the new vote has ended every level 50 character will be able to summon a horse in the frontier without having to have bought it. It will be one of the basic models with no customization unless you bought it. After the vote this free rvr horse access will be removed regardless of the vote outcome.

This is fair, I like the inclusion of the community. But voter outcome seems rather low for some reason, or is that the normal numbers?

Thu 21 May 2020 2:04 PM by

Uthred

romulus wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 1:59 PM
Hi!
Is there going to be a level cap for using horses? Will we be seeing horses in, say, Thidranki?

:hugs:

Only level 50s will be able to ride a horse.

Thu 21 May 2020 2:06 PM by Slyther83

You're pandering to soloers in a large scale RvR game on a server that doesn't have population issues.

If 49% don't want it and there isn't massive public outcry to implement horses in the first place then you shouldn't add it.

Everyone knows that the best state of this game was before socialism was implemented and everyone could self buff/cleanse/heal/speed/etc.

Stop diminishing the utility of other classes by giving everyone access to weaker versions of their abilities.

It's like you're trying to retrace the mistakes of Mythic or something

Thu 21 May 2020 2:14 PM by Lollie

That vote is closer than Brexit! Guess its time to start saving up, i'm lucky in i only have 5 level 50's i need to buy it for (and i say need becuase it is a must have item),

Thu 21 May 2020 2:14 PM by gnefner

Slyther83 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 2:06 PM
You're pandering to soloers in a large scale RvR game on a server that doesn't have population issues.

If 49% don't want it and there isn't massive public outcry to implement horses in the first place then you shouldn't add it.

Everyone knows that the best state of this game was before socialism was implemented and everyone could self buff/cleanse/heal/speed/etc.

Stop diminishing the utility of other classes by giving everyone access to weaker versions of their abilities.

It's like you're trying to retrace the mistakes of Mythic or something

Agree 100%

Thu 21 May 2020 2:18 PM by LegalEagle52

Why can't there just be like 3-4 more hasteners dropped in random places throughout each of the RVR zones? Concerns with camping and ganking around them or something?

Thu 21 May 2020 2:19 PM by Ashenspire

Yes, these 1 minute cooldown horses that are slower than caster speed sure do hurt the utility of those classes.

Right up until these groups that have any kind of caster or musician speed run you down and you still get murdered just like you do now, only you live 5 seconds longer. The audacity.

Thu 21 May 2020 2:26 PM by Jeninii

Tanakeo wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 1:54 PM
just put in speed of the realm scrolls for BP's. job done

I agree. The speed gems or scrolls would have been better.

Thu 21 May 2020 2:33 PM by Xanthippus

What a terrible addition. Soon the ranger numbers will climb to 120+ concurrently. Why would you play another class?

Thu 21 May 2020 2:39 PM by Slyther83

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 2:19 PM
Yes, these 1 minute cooldown horses that are slower than caster speed sure do hurt the utility of those classes.

Right up until these groups that have any kind of caster or musician speed run you down and you still get murdered just like you do now, only you live 5 seconds longer. The audacity.

Anyone can quote niche scenarios to be favorable in their agenda. Just like I can point out how a solo warrior who got slammed by a fleeing hero shouldn't be able to mount up and chase down said hero who was kept in combat by a hunter- or who hasn't farmed up enough money to use his own mount.

It's not a solo game and they already added solo/smallman. If you want the benefit of another class' abilities then you should be grouping with them.

Thu 21 May 2020 3:05 PM by necrolove1

Slyther83 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 2:06 PM
You're pandering to soloers in a large scale RvR game on a server that doesn't have population issues.

If 49% don't want it and there isn't massive public outcry to implement horses in the first place then you shouldn't add it.

Everyone knows that the best state of this game was before socialism was implemented and everyone could self buff/cleanse/heal/speed/etc.

Stop diminishing the utility of other classes by giving everyone access to weaker versions of their abilities.

It's like you're trying to retrace the mistakes of Mythic or something

First its not a full implementation, they are going to test and then revote.

second PLEASE explain in full detail how this dimishishes the utililty of another class.

Thu 21 May 2020 3:07 PM by necrolove1

Slyther83 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 2:39 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 2:19 PM
Yes, these 1 minute cooldown horses that are slower than caster speed sure do hurt the utility of those classes.

Right up until these groups that have any kind of caster or musician speed run you down and you still get murdered just like you do now, only you live 5 seconds longer. The audacity.

Anyone can quote niche scenarios to be favorable in their agenda. Just like I can point out how a solo warrior who got slammed by a fleeing hero shouldn't be able to mount up and chase down said hero who was kept in combat by a hunter- or who hasn't farmed up enough money to use his own mount.

It's not a solo game and they already added solo/smallman. If you want the benefit of another class' abilities then you should be grouping with them.

^^ this, i get so tired of seeing uninformed posts or people posting their 1 in a 1000 scenarios ( that wont change the outcome of that battle anyway) of how ahorse can be a problem.

Thu 21 May 2020 3:10 PM by Ashenspire

Slyther83 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 2:39 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 2:19 PM
Yes, these 1 minute cooldown horses that are slower than caster speed sure do hurt the utility of those classes.

Right up until these groups that have any kind of caster or musician speed run you down and you still get murdered just like you do now, only you live 5 seconds longer. The audacity.

Anyone can quote niche scenarios to be favorable in their agenda. Just like I can point out how a solo warrior who got slammed by a fleeing hero shouldn't be able to mount up and chase down said hero who was kept in combat by a hunter- or who hasn't farmed up enough money to use his own mount.

It's not a solo game and they already added solo/smallman. If you want the benefit of another class' abilities then you should be grouping with them.

"Anyone can quote niche scenarios," he says, as he quotes a niche scenario to help his argument.

Based on your "it's not a solo game," statement, then why should some classes have a clear advantage over others while soling? Works both ways.

Thu 21 May 2020 3:25 PM by Slyther83

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 3:10 PM
Slyther83 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 2:39 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 2:19 PM
Yes, these 1 minute cooldown horses that are slower than caster speed sure do hurt the utility of those classes.

Right up until these groups that have any kind of caster or musician speed run you down and you still get murdered just like you do now, only you live 5 seconds longer. The audacity.

Anyone can quote niche scenarios to be favorable in their agenda. Just like I can point out how a solo warrior who got slammed by a fleeing hero shouldn't be able to mount up and chase down said hero who was kept in combat by a hunter- or who hasn't farmed up enough money to use his own mount.

It's not a solo game and they already added solo/smallman. If you want the benefit of another class' abilities then you should be grouping with them.

"Anyone can quote niche scenarios," he says, as he quotes a niche scenario to help his argument.

Based on your "it's not a solo game," statement, then why should some classes have a clear advantage over others while soling? Works both ways.

"Anyone can quote niche scenarios," he says, as he quotes a niche scenario to help his argument.
Irony, look it up.
Based on your "it's not a solo game," statement, then why should some classes have a clear advantage over others while soling? Works both ways.
The opening statement there doesn't have any association or relevance to the question that you're tying to it. If anything, you've answered your own question within the same sentence that you asked it. "It's not a solo game" is the answer for why some classes have an advantage over others while soloing. It's balanced around group play and the utility of these classes combined is what promotes grouping. Sharing class abilities across the board does not promote grouping.

Thu 21 May 2020 3:32 PM by thirian24

I always love the "This isn't a solo game." Comments.

🤣🤣

Thu 21 May 2020 3:37 PM by Slyther83

thirian24 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 3:32 PM
I always love the "This isn't a solo game." Comments.

🤣🤣

There isn't any argument to be had there and its always immediately settled with a question that has only one clear answer-

Is the game balanced for group or solo play?

Thu 21 May 2020 3:45 PM by Bobbahunter

Stealthers ( including me ). Are still going to want the hastened from docks. I’m good with either decision. Glad for pve though.

Thu 21 May 2020 3:50 PM by Ashenspire

Slyther83 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 3:25 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 3:10 PM
Slyther83 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 2:39 PM
Anyone can quote niche scenarios to be favorable in their agenda. Just like I can point out how a solo warrior who got slammed by a fleeing hero shouldn't be able to mount up and chase down said hero who was kept in combat by a hunter- or who hasn't farmed up enough money to use his own mount.

It's not a solo game and they already added solo/smallman. If you want the benefit of another class' abilities then you should be grouping with them.

"Anyone can quote niche scenarios," he says, as he quotes a niche scenario to help his argument.

Based on your "it's not a solo game," statement, then why should some classes have a clear advantage over others while soling? Works both ways.

"Anyone can quote niche scenarios," he says, as he quotes a niche scenario to help his argument.
Irony, look it up.
Based on your "it's not a solo game," statement, then why should some classes have a clear advantage over others while soling? Works both ways.
The opening statement there doesn't have any association or relevance to the question that you're tying to it. If anything, you've answered your own question within the same sentence that you asked it. "It's not a solo game" is the answer for why some classes have an advantage over others while soloing. It's balanced around group play and the utility of these classes combined is what promotes grouping. Sharing class abilities across the board does not promote grouping.

So in the grand scheme of things this will have little to no effect on those grouping up, as groups will have better speed. In the solo game, those classes that had a clear advantage in the speed department still have a clear advantage as they will still have better speed.

It is perfectly relevant. If the game wasn't meant to be played solo at all, then no classes should have advantages over others that would allow them to solo better. There would be no speed while solo, no stealth while solo, etc. Everyone would have to group up to get anything done.

It's almost like, and I know this is crazy, this game was designed to promote multiple play styles and after many years, even back in vanilla and SI, there were QoL changes to promote every play style. Ya know, QoL changes like being able to move around just a bit faster in the frontier on non speed classes to get to the action faster. Horses will never replace real speed classes. You people act like the sky will fall with every minor change made on this server.

Thu 21 May 2020 4:17 PM by Slyther83

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 3:50 PM
Slyther83 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 3:25 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 3:10 PM
"Anyone can quote niche scenarios," he says, as he quotes a niche scenario to help his argument.

Based on your "it's not a solo game," statement, then why should some classes have a clear advantage over others while soling? Works both ways.

"Anyone can quote niche scenarios," he says, as he quotes a niche scenario to help his argument.
Irony, look it up.
Based on your "it's not a solo game," statement, then why should some classes have a clear advantage over others while soling? Works both ways.
The opening statement there doesn't have any association or relevance to the question that you're tying to it. If anything, you've answered your own question within the same sentence that you asked it. "It's not a solo game" is the answer for why some classes have an advantage over others while soloing. It's balanced around group play and the utility of these classes combined is what promotes grouping. Sharing class abilities across the board does not promote grouping.

So in the grand scheme of things this will have little to no effect on those grouping up, as groups will have better speed. In the solo game, those classes that had a clear advantage in the speed department still have a clear advantage as they will still have better speed.

It is perfectly relevant. If the game wasn't meant to be played solo at all, then no classes should have advantages over others that would allow them to solo better. There would be no speed while solo, no stealth while solo, etc. Everyone would have to group up to get anything done.

It's almost like, and I know this is crazy, this game was designed to promote multiple play styles and after many years, even back in vanilla and SI, there were QoL changes to promote every play style. Ya know, QoL changes like being able to move around just a bit faster in the frontier on non speed classes to get to the action faster. Horses will never replace real speed classes. You people act like the sky will fall with every minor change made on this server.

It is perfectly relevant. If the game wasn't meant to be played solo at all, then no classes should have advantages over others that would allow them to solo better. There would be no speed while solo, no stealth while solo, etc. Everyone would have to group up to get anything done.

Choosing specific words here- the game isn't balanced for solo. The game is balanced for group play. Advantages that occur as a result of that are what people who prefer solo gameplay are unsatisfied with/will point their finger at/call for more self utility beyond the baseline skills of their actual class. To your point, if the game was balanced for solo gameplay then assassins wouldn't have such a clear advantage over cloth; the actual meta of rock paper scissors is not solo balance.

The core focus of the game is group-based, RvR combat; taking keeps/towers/relics. Of course you need a group to get that done. It is not possible to effectively balance this game for group and solo gameplay as only one of the two can be prioritized.

Thu 21 May 2020 4:18 PM by Azrael

Imo it is not just an QoL feature cause it will change the outcome of an fight in certain/many situations.
One keeps you in combat another one will chase you with hastener speed. This will affect every situation when you fight larger numbers than yourself and probably also 8man situations when somebody who got kited out far far behind can catch up while the rest of the groups still only got sprint speed because of combat.
Did you every experienced fights where you can cc somebody a second(or even a third) time? It is same time you can mount.

Thu 21 May 2020 4:22 PM by Lacyn HowboutDah

I didn't want NF, yet we lost by a small margin, and guess what? We didn't get some test trail for 3-7 days it passed, we got screwed and we dealt with it. Guess what people YOU lost 51% wanted it, Just like OF vote around 35-40% of people didn't want it to guess what they did QUIT!, maybe you can lead from their examples. That should be final. What's the point of voting then? Can we get a re-vote for OF now than?

Thu 21 May 2020 4:33 PM by Lacyn HowboutDah

Durzo wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 7:34 PM
So it seems like the opinion mounts is split down the middle, just the impression I’m getting. Can we all atleast agree that implementing changes that don’t have overwhelming support (i.e Archery buff, gtaoe fix, pet cap) probably should not be implemented? If the game had a large population that could afford to have the unhappy people quit I’d say who cares. But for my time zone there is maybe 100-200 people total in the frontiers including the afks. I don’t think we can afford to lose anyone, and saying “if you don’t like this change, then quit cya later” is not a good solution.

You do know that when it swapped from OF to NF we lost like 15-20% of the community? Were past saving people from quitting that should have been addressed then. Horses passed should be in, and that's all.

Thu 21 May 2020 4:37 PM by Lacyn HowboutDah

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 5:14 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 18 May 2020 5:05 PM
I can understand why people would like this, but for me I will be done if it is implemented for RvR. PvE is fine.

Pheonix told us since beta they would NEVER add speed tokens/horses/charges and here we are.

If this is the direction the server is going I wish everyone well, but if it goes in I will be done.

Can I have your stuff?

Also said we would be OF, your point lol?

Thu 21 May 2020 4:50 PM by Slyther83

Lacyn HowboutDah wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 4:22 PM
I didn't want NF, yet we lost by a small margin, and guess what? We didn't get some test trail for 3-7 days it passed, we got screwed and we dealt with it. Guess what people YOU lost 51% wanted it, Just like OF vote around 35-40% of people didn't want it to guess what they did QUIT!, maybe you can lead from their examples. That should be final. What's the point of voting then? Can we get a re-vote for OF now than?

Objectively, there was little to no reason to keep OF. Bottlenecking/camping at milegates and instanced RVR that split up the action was more of a detriment to gameplay when compared to the benefits of NF. OF was also a big waste of space; most of the action occurred in a couple key areas and it was dead everywhere else. Many who voted for OF were blinded by nostalgia goggles. I can get behind that, but nostalgia is not objective.

Thu 21 May 2020 4:54 PM by Ashenspire

Slyther83 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 4:17 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 3:50 PM
Slyther83 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 3:25 PM
"Anyone can quote niche scenarios," he says, as he quotes a niche scenario to help his argument.
Irony, look it up.
Based on your "it's not a solo game," statement, then why should some classes have a clear advantage over others while soling? Works both ways.
The opening statement there doesn't have any association or relevance to the question that you're tying to it. If anything, you've answered your own question within the same sentence that you asked it. "It's not a solo game" is the answer for why some classes have an advantage over others while soloing. It's balanced around group play and the utility of these classes combined is what promotes grouping. Sharing class abilities across the board does not promote grouping.

So in the grand scheme of things this will have little to no effect on those grouping up, as groups will have better speed. In the solo game, those classes that had a clear advantage in the speed department still have a clear advantage as they will still have better speed.

It is perfectly relevant. If the game wasn't meant to be played solo at all, then no classes should have advantages over others that would allow them to solo better. There would be no speed while solo, no stealth while solo, etc. Everyone would have to group up to get anything done.

It's almost like, and I know this is crazy, this game was designed to promote multiple play styles and after many years, even back in vanilla and SI, there were QoL changes to promote every play style. Ya know, QoL changes like being able to move around just a bit faster in the frontier on non speed classes to get to the action faster. Horses will never replace real speed classes. You people act like the sky will fall with every minor change made on this server.

It is perfectly relevant. If the game wasn't meant to be played solo at all, then no classes should have advantages over others that would allow them to solo better. There would be no speed while solo, no stealth while solo, etc. Everyone would have to group up to get anything done.

Choosing specific words here- the game isn't balanced for solo. The game is balanced for group play. Advantages that occur as a result of that are what people who prefer solo gameplay are unsatisfied with/will point their finger at/call for more self utility beyond the baseline skills of their actual class. To your point, if the game was balanced for solo gameplay then assassins wouldn't have such a clear advantage over cloth; the actual meta of rock paper scissors is not solo balance.

The core focus of the game is group-based, RvR combat; taking keeps/towers/relics. Of course you need a group to get that done. It is not possible to effectively balance this game for group and solo gameplay as only one of the two can be prioritized.

I'm just choosing the words you chose to use.

Rock paper scissors is literally perfectly balanced. The problem is, the "rock paper scissor" meta was stealther > caster > tank > stealther, but it's never actually been true, especially as some stealthers and tanks get speed and others don't, some casters get stuns and other's don't, some tanks get instant ranged abilities and other's don't, etc. The game has never been a true rock paper scissor balance, so it shouldn't be labeled as such.

An inferior speed on a 1 minute cooldown changes nothing but statistically outlining scenarios that will never be anything close to a relevant level of normal. The good would far outweigh the bad overall.

Thu 21 May 2020 5:16 PM by necrolove1

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 4:54 PM
Slyther83 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 4:17 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 3:50 PM
So in the grand scheme of things this will have little to no effect on those grouping up, as groups will have better speed. In the solo game, those classes that had a clear advantage in the speed department still have a clear advantage as they will still have better speed.

It is perfectly relevant. If the game wasn't meant to be played solo at all, then no classes should have advantages over others that would allow them to solo better. There would be no speed while solo, no stealth while solo, etc. Everyone would have to group up to get anything done.

It's almost like, and I know this is crazy, this game was designed to promote multiple play styles and after many years, even back in vanilla and SI, there were QoL changes to promote every play style. Ya know, QoL changes like being able to move around just a bit faster in the frontier on non speed classes to get to the action faster. Horses will never replace real speed classes. You people act like the sky will fall with every minor change made on this server.

It is perfectly relevant. If the game wasn't meant to be played solo at all, then no classes should have advantages over others that would allow them to solo better. There would be no speed while solo, no stealth while solo, etc. Everyone would have to group up to get anything done.

Choosing specific words here- the game isn't balanced for solo. The game is balanced for group play. Advantages that occur as a result of that are what people who prefer solo gameplay are unsatisfied with/will point their finger at/call for more self utility beyond the baseline skills of their actual class. To your point, if the game was balanced for solo gameplay then assassins wouldn't have such a clear advantage over cloth; the actual meta of rock paper scissors is not solo balance.

The core focus of the game is group-based, RvR combat; taking keeps/towers/relics. Of course you need a group to get that done. It is not possible to effectively balance this game for group and solo gameplay as only one of the two can be prioritized.

I'm just choosing the words you chose to use.

Rock paper scissors is literally perfectly balanced. The problem is, the "rock paper scissor" meta was stealther > caster > tank > stealther, but it's never actually been true, especially as some stealthers and tanks get speed and others don't, some casters get stuns and other's don't, some tanks get instant ranged abilities and other's don't, etc. The game has never been a true rock paper scissor balance, so it shouldn't be labeled as such.

An inferior speed on a 1 minute cooldown changes nothing but statistically outlining scenarios that will never be anything close to a relevant level of normal. The good would far outweigh the bad overall.

Well put

Thu 21 May 2020 5:21 PM by Slyther83

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 4:54 PM
Slyther83 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 4:17 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 3:50 PM
So in the grand scheme of things this will have little to no effect on those grouping up, as groups will have better speed. In the solo game, those classes that had a clear advantage in the speed department still have a clear advantage as they will still have better speed.

It is perfectly relevant. If the game wasn't meant to be played solo at all, then no classes should have advantages over others that would allow them to solo better. There would be no speed while solo, no stealth while solo, etc. Everyone would have to group up to get anything done.

It's almost like, and I know this is crazy, this game was designed to promote multiple play styles and after many years, even back in vanilla and SI, there were QoL changes to promote every play style. Ya know, QoL changes like being able to move around just a bit faster in the frontier on non speed classes to get to the action faster. Horses will never replace real speed classes. You people act like the sky will fall with every minor change made on this server.

It is perfectly relevant. If the game wasn't meant to be played solo at all, then no classes should have advantages over others that would allow them to solo better. There would be no speed while solo, no stealth while solo, etc. Everyone would have to group up to get anything done.

Choosing specific words here- the game isn't balanced for solo. The game is balanced for group play. Advantages that occur as a result of that are what people who prefer solo gameplay are unsatisfied with/will point their finger at/call for more self utility beyond the baseline skills of their actual class. To your point, if the game was balanced for solo gameplay then assassins wouldn't have such a clear advantage over cloth; the actual meta of rock paper scissors is not solo balance.

The core focus of the game is group-based, RvR combat; taking keeps/towers/relics. Of course you need a group to get that done. It is not possible to effectively balance this game for group and solo gameplay as only one of the two can be prioritized.

I'm just choosing the words you chose to use.

Rock paper scissors is literally perfectly balanced. The problem is, the "rock paper scissor" meta was stealther > caster > tank > stealther, but it's never actually been true, especially as some stealthers and tanks get speed and others don't, some casters get stuns and other's don't, some tanks get instant ranged abilities and other's don't, etc. The game has never been a true rock paper scissor balance, so it shouldn't be labeled as such.

An inferior speed on a 1 minute cooldown changes nothing but statistically outlining scenarios that will never be anything close to a relevant level of normal. The good would far outweigh the bad overall.

Rock paper scissors / class determining outcome is a form of balance, yes. If you enjoy encountering another player 1v1 that if equally played you have basically no chance of winning against, then I question your desire for solo gameplay. You're basically running around hoping for a particular archetype to encounter or that the superior class you run into is poorly played. Is that really balance? No, it's not. There are plenty of other games where classes and specs are actually balanced at a granular level for solo viability. In general, stealther > caster > tank was the classic/SI meta. Of course with this much class variance there are outliers, but in general that rings true.

Classes that dont have innate speed shouldnt have speed just like they shouldnt have self heal or self cleanse. This has an impact to combat and the benefits are more advantageous to some than others; it isn't just QoL. There is no real logic in deciding which class abilities to effectively steal and share across the realm.

Thu 21 May 2020 5:34 PM by Lacyn HowboutDah

Slyther83 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 4:50 PM
Lacyn HowboutDah wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 4:22 PM
I didn't want NF, yet we lost by a small margin, and guess what? We didn't get some test trail for 3-7 days it passed, we got screwed and we dealt with it. Guess what people YOU lost 51% wanted it, Just like OF vote around 35-40% of people didn't want it to guess what they did QUIT!, maybe you can lead from their examples. That should be final. What's the point of voting then? Can we get a re-vote for OF now than?

Objectively, there was little to no reason to keep OF. Bottlenecking/camping at milegates and instanced RVR that split up the action was more of a detriment to gameplay when compared to the benefits of NF. OF was also a big waste of space; most of the action occurred in a couple key areas and it was dead everywhere else. Many who voted for OF were blinded by nostalgia goggles. I can get behind that, but nostalgia is not objective.

Okay and the point you are making? didn't see where you went with that statement. One thing I will say though is guess what, it changed! we didn't like it nor want it (community who wanted NOSTALGIA) We quit, or we stayed that was our options no RECOUNT or test trial of NF. It passed and thus was placed in. Same as horses, that's the point I'm trying to make.

Thu 21 May 2020 5:42 PM by dbj

Frankly, I'm one of those people with not too much time to spend on the game, and the need to grind for money/feathers to be competitive has been a put off in the past, now I'm not sure I'll be logging back in. No, you can't have my stuff.

Thu 21 May 2020 5:42 PM by necrolove1

Lacyn HowboutDah wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 5:34 PM
Slyther83 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 4:50 PM
Lacyn HowboutDah wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 4:22 PM
I didn't want NF, yet we lost by a small margin, and guess what? We didn't get some test trail for 3-7 days it passed, we got screwed and we dealt with it. Guess what people YOU lost 51% wanted it, Just like OF vote around 35-40% of people didn't want it to guess what they did QUIT!, maybe you can lead from their examples. That should be final. What's the point of voting then? Can we get a re-vote for OF now than?

Objectively, there was little to no reason to keep OF. Bottlenecking/camping at milegates and instanced RVR that split up the action was more of a detriment to gameplay when compared to the benefits of NF. OF was also a big waste of space; most of the action occurred in a couple key areas and it was dead everywhere else. Many who voted for OF were blinded by nostalgia goggles. I can get behind that, but nostalgia is not objective.

Okay and the point you are making? didn't see where you went with that statement. One thing I will say though is guess what, it changed! we didn't like it nor want it (community who wanted NOSTALGIA) We quit, or we stayed that was our options no RECOUNT or test trial of NF. It passed and thus was placed in. Same as horses, that's the point I'm trying to make.

OF is a nostalgia trip for sure, but it was not a good system man, there were SO MANY PROBLEMS with it. There is a reason NF exists, it's just a better system in EVERY way. that being said i would love a bi yearly, week long event of OF for Nostalgia for sure.

As for players leaving, they didn't soley leave because of NF, the pop was already on the decline.

Horses will not change the game at all from the way it currently is. Download the game again, and try it out.

Thu 21 May 2020 5:43 PM by necrolove1

dbj wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 5:42 PM
Frankly, I'm one of those people with not too much time to spend on the game, and the need to grind for money/feathers to be competitive has been a put off in the past, now I'm not sure I'll be logging back in. No, you can't have my stuff.

It's just 5p and its only if you want to solo away from areas that are High traffic with no hastener, would you prefer to have nothing to work for in a video game?

Thu 21 May 2020 5:46 PM by Luluko

Slyther83 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 2:06 PM
You're pandering to soloers in a large scale RvR game on a server that doesn't have population issues.

If 49% don't want it and there isn't massive public outcry to implement horses in the first place then you shouldn't add it.

Everyone knows that the best state of this game was before socialism was implemented and everyone could self buff/cleanse/heal/speed/etc.

Stop diminishing the utility of other classes by giving everyone access to weaker versions of their abilities.

It's like you're trying to retrace the mistakes of Mythic or something

You know what pandering to soloers is? Buffbots, max speed horses, cl disease, weapons which summon pets. Thats pandering, a little speed so you dont have to camp bridges all the time is qol. Also you should look up what socialism really is, socialism would mean everyone would lose speed because in socialism nobody has anything good. Except the gms then maybe.

And btw a shame the horses are lvl 50 only. If 50 rvr sucks I am stuck to speed classes again if I wanna play thid and those damn stealthy aggro snakes are still there last time I checked.

Thu 21 May 2020 6:02 PM by necrolove1

Azrael wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 4:18 PM
Imo it is not just an QoL feature cause it will change the outcome of an fight in certain/many situations.
One keeps you in combat another one will chase you with hastener speed. This will affect every situation when you fight larger numbers than yourself and probably also 8man situations when somebody who got kited out far far behind can catch up while the rest of the groups still only got sprint speed because of combat.
Did you every experienced fights where you can cc somebody a second(or even a third) time? It is same time you can mount.

One keeps you in combat another one will chase you with hastener speed. This will affect every situation when you fight larger numbers than yourself and probably also
-- In this situation you were already going to die, a horse does just speeds up your fate. if its a duo chances are one of them already is a speed class

8man situations when somebody who got kited out far far behind can catch up while the rest of the groups still only got sprint speed because of combat.
-- you don't 8 man that much i take it, the distance your group would have left you behind for you not to be in combat for 1 minute is absurd and the kiting group will still win for now just having to fight a 7man. no sane group would leave a CC'd player that far away and still have a chance to win. a horse here once again WOULD NOT CHANGE THE OUTCOME. they have better horses on live and this was NEVERRRRR a problem with our kite groups...

Did you every experienced fights where you can cc somebody a second(or even a third) time? It is same time you can mount.
-- yes but an immunity timer is completly different from a out of combat timer... i have NEVER experienced a fight where i was out of combat for 1 whole minute and still kept my spot in the group. once again, a horse will not change the outcome of this

now for my list of REAL reasons why horses are a great addition.

- Groups in BGs no speed class ( this is a GOD SEND)
- Solo / smallman in more places not just areas that already have a hastener.
- Running somewhere in RvR with hastener speed and you get hit by a mob on accident SHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT ( horses here are AMAZING)
- your group wiped but you escaped and are stranded ( thank god for horsey)
- you get in the RARE 1v1 fight not near a hastener, and you lose speed after the battle. (yay horsey )
- the list goes on and on.

any RVR situation where a horse can be an advange is just spoken from head cannon and wil lnot change the outcome of any battle.

Thu 21 May 2020 6:02 PM by Slyther83

Lacyn HowboutDah wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 5:34 PM
Slyther83 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 4:50 PM
Lacyn HowboutDah wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 4:22 PM
I didn't want NF, yet we lost by a small margin, and guess what? We didn't get some test trail for 3-7 days it passed, we got screwed and we dealt with it. Guess what people YOU lost 51% wanted it, Just like OF vote around 35-40% of people didn't want it to guess what they did QUIT!, maybe you can lead from their examples. That should be final. What's the point of voting then? Can we get a re-vote for OF now than?

Objectively, there was little to no reason to keep OF. Bottlenecking/camping at milegates and instanced RVR that split up the action was more of a detriment to gameplay when compared to the benefits of NF. OF was also a big waste of space; most of the action occurred in a couple key areas and it was dead everywhere else. Many who voted for OF were blinded by nostalgia goggles. I can get behind that, but nostalgia is not objective.

Okay and the point you are making? didn't see where you went with that statement. One thing I will say though is guess what, it changed! we didn't like it nor want it (community who wanted NOSTALGIA) We quit, or we stayed that was our options no RECOUNT or test trial of NF. It passed and thus was placed in. Same as horses, that's the point I'm trying to make.

The point was clear - objective decision making (facts and impact to support logic) vs nostalgia (an emotion). There is logic on both sides, arguably more so against, for RVR horses. There isn't the same logic for OF vs NF; it was only nostalgia.

Thu 21 May 2020 6:09 PM by Slyther83

necrolove1 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 6:02 PM
Azrael wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 4:18 PM
Imo it is not just an QoL feature cause it will change the outcome of an fight in certain/many situations.
One keeps you in combat another one will chase you with hastener speed. This will affect every situation when you fight larger numbers than yourself and probably also 8man situations when somebody who got kited out far far behind can catch up while the rest of the groups still only got sprint speed because of combat.
Did you every experienced fights where you can cc somebody a second(or even a third) time? It is same time you can mount.

One keeps you in combat another one will chase you with hastener speed. This will affect every situation when you fight larger numbers than yourself and probably also
-- In this situation you were already going to die, a horse does just speeds up your fate.

8man situations when somebody who got kited out far far behind can catch up while the rest of the groups still only got sprint speed because of combat.
-- you don't 8 man that much i take it, the distance your group would have left you behind for you not to be in combat for 1 minute is absurd and the kiting group will still win for now just having to fight a 7man. no sane group would leave a CC'd player that far away and still have a chance to win. a horse here once again WOULD NOT CHANGE THE OUTCOME. they have better horses on live and this was NEVERRRRR a problem with our kite groups...

Did you every experienced fights where you can cc somebody a second(or even a third) time? It is same time you can mount.
-- yes but an immunity timer is completly different from a out of combat timer... i have NEVER experienced a fight where i was out of combat for 1 whole minute and still kept my spot in the group. once again, a horse will not change the outcome of this

now for my list of REAL reasons why horses are a great addition.

- Groups in BGs no speed class ( this is a GOD SEND)
- Solo / smallman in more places not just areas that already have a hastener.
- Running somewhere in RvR with hastener speed and you get hit by a mob on accident SHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT ( horses here are AMAZING)
- your group wiped but you escaped and are stranded ( thank god for horsey)
- you get in the RARE 1v1 fight not near a hastener, and you lose speed after the battle. (yay horsey )
- the list goes on and on.

any RVR situation where a horse can be an advange is just spoken from head cannon and wil lnot change the outcome of any battle.

- Groups in BGs no speed class ( this is a GOD SEND) Same logic can be applied if you don't have a healer, lets give that to all classes as well.
- Solo / smallman in more places not just areas that already have a hastener. Reduced utility value for speed classes in smallman/solo
- Running somewhere in RvR with hastener speed and you get hit by a mob on accident SHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT ( horses here are AMAZING) Same logic can be applied if you don't have a healer
- your group wiped but you escaped and are stranded ( thank god for horsey) Non-speed classes are escaping to where from another group? A keep where they can already port? Anyway, this isn't justification for a realmwide speed buff.
- you get in the RARE 1v1 fight not near a hastener, and you lose speed after the battle. (yay horsey ) You're not a speed class, therefore you go don't get speed. Just like speed classes don't get all the utility that non-speed classes come with
- the list goes on and on. No it doesn't. You're literally asking for another class' ability to make yours perform better. That logic can go anywhere.

Thu 21 May 2020 6:33 PM by Cadebrennus

Slyther83 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 5:21 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 4:54 PM
Slyther83 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 4:17 PM
It is perfectly relevant. If the game wasn't meant to be played solo at all, then no classes should have advantages over others that would allow them to solo better. There would be no speed while solo, no stealth while solo, etc. Everyone would have to group up to get anything done.

Choosing specific words here- the game isn't balanced for solo. The game is balanced for group play. Advantages that occur as a result of that are what people who prefer solo gameplay are unsatisfied with/will point their finger at/call for more self utility beyond the baseline skills of their actual class. To your point, if the game was balanced for solo gameplay then assassins wouldn't have such a clear advantage over cloth; the actual meta of rock paper scissors is not solo balance.

The core focus of the game is group-based, RvR combat; taking keeps/towers/relics. Of course you need a group to get that done. It is not possible to effectively balance this game for group and solo gameplay as only one of the two can be prioritized.

I'm just choosing the words you chose to use.

Rock paper scissors is literally perfectly balanced. The problem is, the "rock paper scissor" meta was stealther > caster > tank > stealther, but it's never actually been true, especially as some stealthers and tanks get speed and others don't, some casters get stuns and other's don't, some tanks get instant ranged abilities and other's don't, etc. The game has never been a true rock paper scissor balance, so it shouldn't be labeled as such.

An inferior speed on a 1 minute cooldown changes nothing but statistically outlining scenarios that will never be anything close to a relevant level of normal. The good would far outweigh the bad overall.

Rock paper scissors / class determining outcome is a form of balance, yes. If you enjoy encountering another player 1v1 that if equally played you have basically no chance of winning against, then I question your desire for solo gameplay. You're basically running around hoping for a particular archetype to encounter or that the superior class you run into is poorly played. Is that really balance? No, it's not. There are plenty of other games where classes and specs are actually balanced at a granular level for solo viability. In general, stealther > caster > tank was the classic/SI meta. Of course with this much class variance there are outliers, but in general that rings true.

Classes that dont have innate speed shouldnt have speed just like they shouldnt have self heal or self cleanse. This has an impact to combat and the benefits are more advantageous to some than others; it isn't just QoL. There is no real logic in deciding which class abilities to effectively steal and share across the realm.

You should leave your IP, your First Aid, your Heal Pots, and your Heart of Legion behind when you enter the Frontier then.

Thu 21 May 2020 7:05 PM by protege

Not sure what the big deal is... you have to be out of combat for a minute to summon a horse... in what situation do the complainers see someone resummoning a horse in a 1v1? Lmao

Thu 21 May 2020 7:07 PM by Ashenspire

protege wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 7:05 PM
Not sure what the big deal is... you have to be out of combat for a minute to summon a horse... in what situation do the complainers see someone resummoning a horse in a 1v1? Lmao

But what if I'm being chased by something that can keep me in combat for a minute and his friend can remount up?! That's not fair!!! /s

Thu 21 May 2020 7:18 PM by Kadal

Slyther83 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 6:09 PM
- Groups in BGs no speed class ( this is a GOD SEND) Same logic can be applied if you don't have a healer, lets give that to all classes as well.
- Solo / smallman in more places not just areas that already have a hastener. Reduced utility value for speed classes in smallman/solo
- Running somewhere in RvR with hastener speed and you get hit by a mob on accident SHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT ( horses here are AMAZING) Same logic can be applied if you don't have a healer
- your group wiped but you escaped and are stranded ( thank god for horsey) Non-speed classes are escaping to where from another group? A keep where they can already port? Anyway, this isn't justification for a realmwide speed buff.
- you get in the RARE 1v1 fight not near a hastener, and you lose speed after the battle. (yay horsey ) You're not a speed class, therefore you go don't get speed. Just like speed classes don't get all the utility that non-speed classes come with
- the list goes on and on. No it doesn't. You're literally asking for another class' ability to make yours perform better. That logic can go anywhere.

are you really comparing a out of combat movementspeed buff to a whole class archetype? do u really need an explanation on how fucking stupid that is?

how many times do people need to emphasize the fact that it will be worse than even the caster movementspeed buff? and that u need to be out of combat for 1 minute, just like the buff pots, to use the mount? movementspeed classes will be just as popular as before, the devs clearly thought of this.
and even if that was not the case, if u take a class only for a movementspeed buff then there is another problem in my opinion

perform better? in what? moving from a to b? ...what?

jesus christ that was a fucking dumb post

the way they implement it it will be convenience in 99,9% of the time. I dont even think people will see horses that much in rvr in general, even in BGs after a Zerg fight u will have to wait one minute after the fight to mount up and by that time u are usually at or very close tothe next keep/tower. and even if not, the mount only benefits the few without any kind of movementspeed in their grp, why is that a bad thing?

and no i dont think mounts will magicly move the action from the hotspots we have now, why would they? to where?
there will be solos/smallmans using them in task regions mainly maybe, thats about it. could be wrong/not thinking of something here ofc.

the only good reason against horses i have seen so far is that the daoc horses are fucking ugly, on which i agree.
and maybe that it hurts the "classic feel" which i personally dont really care about, this server is already way different and better than classic imo, but i definitely understand this point.

so yea i hope more people will realize that this wont be that big of a deal.

Thu 21 May 2020 7:29 PM by joshisanonymous

If it's just about convenience, then make them slower than hastener speed. I just really don't see what problem this is supposed to address. Is this meant to incentivize people to play solo? I guarantee you it will be the same people soloing, because lack of hastener speed is not why people don't solo. The reason people don't solo is that they can't stomach the idea of ever being outnumbered. Hell, read the complaints from assassins on these forums. They're literally playing the easiest classes in the game for avoiding situations where they'd be outnumbered, and they still complain incessantly about being outnumbered.

The only way you would get me to ever vote yes on mounts is if you made them slower than hastener speed and made them not mounts but buffs instead, because mounts are incredibly ugly in DAoC, and you know people are just going to ask for more and more ridiculous padding and frills to make their mounts even uglier.

Thu 21 May 2020 7:33 PM by Tyrlaan

Kadal wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 7:18 PM
the only good reason against horses i have seen so far is that the daoc horses are fucking ugly, on which i agree.

That´s why I voted No. To at least be spared their looks in RvR. I absolutely hated what horses and cows did to the looks of DAoC. *If* we needed more speed (with all the restrictions) it could all be done with more hasteners or just items on pretty much the same restrictions.

TBH I consider the short notice on the introduction of horses as a haphazard attempt to move attention away from the debacle that was the nerf to critical damage (RAs), the boost to archers and a lot of other stuff that would require fixing way before adding something that (while easily activated because the client supports it) just opens another can of worms when the dust hasn´t settled on the ones before.

Thu 21 May 2020 7:46 PM by protege

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 7:07 PM
protege wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 7:05 PM
Not sure what the big deal is... you have to be out of combat for a minute to summon a horse... in what situation do the complainers see someone resummoning a horse in a 1v1? Lmao

But what if I'm being chased by something that can keep me in combat for a minute and his friend can remount up?! That's not fair!!! /s

For an entire minute and you weren't able to get away? You were gonna die eventually in that case.

Thu 21 May 2020 7:50 PM by Slyther83

Cadebrennus wrote:
Slyther83 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 5:21 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 4:54 PM
I'm just choosing the words you chose to use.

Rock paper scissors is literally perfectly balanced. The problem is, the "rock paper scissor" meta was stealther > caster > tank > stealther, but it's never actually been true, especially as some stealthers and tanks get speed and others don't, some casters get stuns and other's don't, some tanks get instant ranged abilities and other's don't, etc. The game has never been a true rock paper scissor balance, so it shouldn't be labeled as such.

An inferior speed on a 1 minute cooldown changes nothing but statistically outlining scenarios that will never be anything close to a relevant level of normal. The good would far outweigh the bad overall.

Rock paper scissors / class determining outcome is a form of balance, yes. If you enjoy encountering another player 1v1 that if equally played you have basically no chance of winning against, then I question your desire for solo gameplay. You're basically running around hoping for a particular archetype to encounter or that the superior class you run into is poorly played. Is that really balance? No, it's not. There are plenty of other games where classes and specs are actually balanced at a granular level for solo viability. In general, stealther > caster > tank was the classic/SI meta. Of course with this much class variance there are outliers, but in general that rings true.

Classes that dont have innate speed shouldnt have speed just like they shouldnt have self heal or self cleanse. This has an impact to combat and the benefits are more advantageous to some than others; it isn't just QoL. There is no real logic in deciding which class abilities to effectively steal and share across the realm.

You should leave your IP, your First Aid, your Heal Pots, and your Heart of Legion behind when you enter the Frontier then.

Listing a batch of primarily solo RAs isn't relevant; only solo'ers will care. Heal pots are also irrelevant and could/should be removed.
Power pots/items there is valid reason behind ever since they made effectively limitless endurance regen across realms.

Thu 21 May 2020 8:02 PM by Azrael

protege wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 7:46 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 7:07 PM
protege wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 7:05 PM
Not sure what the big deal is... you have to be out of combat for a minute to summon a horse... in what situation do the complainers see someone resummoning a horse in a 1v1? Lmao

But what if I'm being chased by something that can keep me in combat for a minute and his friend can remount up?! That's not fair!!! /s

For an entire minute and you weren't able to get away? You were gonna die eventually in that case.

Why you people claim you would die anyway? Did you guys ever kite?

Thu 21 May 2020 9:08 PM by Cotea

Lacyn HowboutDah wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 4:22 PM
I didn't want NF, yet we lost by a small margin, and guess what? We didn't get some test trail for 3-7 days it passed, we got screwed and we dealt with it. Guess what people YOU lost 51% wanted it, Just like OF vote around 35-40% of people didn't want it to guess what they did QUIT!, maybe you can lead from their examples. That should be final. What's the point of voting then? Can we get a re-vote for OF now than?

LOOOOOOOOOL

There was a 1 Week trial... Gtfo!

Thu 21 May 2020 9:44 PM by bfrtone1

Why are people crying a vote was made. the greater number won. When Devs decided to screw around and mess up stealthers when you girls were crying nobody asked for a vote then. So live with the outcome it happens get over it and play the game if you dont like it then quit like you always threaten to do when things dont go your way. Give me my horse.

Thu 21 May 2020 9:48 PM by necrolove1

Kadal wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 7:18 PM
Slyther83 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 6:09 PM
- Groups in BGs no speed class ( this is a GOD SEND) Same logic can be applied if you don't have a healer, lets give that to all classes as well.
- Solo / smallman in more places not just areas that already have a hastener. Reduced utility value for speed classes in smallman/solo
- Running somewhere in RvR with hastener speed and you get hit by a mob on accident SHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT ( horses here are AMAZING) Same logic can be applied if you don't have a healer
- your group wiped but you escaped and are stranded ( thank god for horsey) Non-speed classes are escaping to where from another group? A keep where they can already port? Anyway, this isn't justification for a realmwide speed buff.
- you get in the RARE 1v1 fight not near a hastener, and you lose speed after the battle. (yay horsey ) You're not a speed class, therefore you go don't get speed. Just like speed classes don't get all the utility that non-speed classes come with
- the list goes on and on. No it doesn't. You're literally asking for another class' ability to make yours perform better. That logic can go anywhere.

are you really comparing a out of combat movementspeed buff to a whole class archetype? do u really need an explanation on how fucking stupid that is?

how many times do people need to emphasize the fact that it will be worse than even the caster movementspeed buff? and that u need to be out of combat for 1 minute, just like the buff pots, to use the mount? movementspeed classes will be just as popular as before, the devs clearly thought of this.
and even if that was not the case, if u take a class only for a movementspeed buff then there is another problem in my opinion

perform better? in what? moving from a to b? ...what?

jesus christ that was a fucking dumb post

the way they implement it it will be convenience in 99,9% of the time. I dont even think people will see horses that much in rvr in general, even in BGs after a Zerg fight u will have to wait one minute after the fight to mount up and by that time u are usually at or very close tothe next keep/tower. and even if not, the mount only benefits the few without any kind of movementspeed in their grp, why is that a bad thing?

and no i dont think mounts will magicly move the action from the hotspots we have now, why would they? to where?
there will be solos/smallmans using them in task regions mainly maybe, thats about it. could be wrong/not thinking of something here ofc.

the only good reason against horses i have seen so far is that the daoc horses are fucking ugly, on which i agree.
and maybe that it hurts the "classic feel" which i personally dont really care about, this server is already way different and better than classic imo, but i definitely understand this point.

so yea i hope more people will realize that this wont be that big of a deal.

Took the words right out of my mouth

Thu 21 May 2020 9:48 PM by Lacyn HowboutDah

bfrtone1 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 9:44 PM
Why are people crying a vote was made. the greater number won. When Devs decided to screw around and mess up stealthers when you girls were crying nobody asked for a vote then. So live with the outcome it happens get over it and play the game if you dont like it then quit like you always threaten to do when things dont go your way. Give me my horse.

That's the point I'm trying to make. You lost the votes in. No need for a trail. Horses pass.

Thu 21 May 2020 10:29 PM by Expfighter

Seems like I deleted all my toons at the right moment!

Caster Speed will be useless now

Fri 22 May 2020 1:17 AM by Slyther83

We'll have our self heals, cleanses, and buffs in no time.

Fri 22 May 2020 1:30 AM by ExcretusMaximus

Expfighter wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 10:29 PM
Caster Speed will be useless now

Yeah! Other than being faster, pulsing on its own when out of combat, and not having a massive model making you easier to target, it'll be totally useless!

Fri 22 May 2020 2:01 AM by Azuell

Azrael wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 8:02 PM
protege wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 7:46 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 7:07 PM
But what if I'm being chased by something that can keep me in combat for a minute and his friend can remount up?! That's not fair!!! /s

For an entire minute and you weren't able to get away? You were gonna die eventually in that case.

Why you people claim you would die anyway? Did you guys ever kite?

Yeah I've been in a fight that lasted over 10 minutes. Sorc/cleric duo kiting a bunch of coast guarders from DC bridge all the way down to Crim Outpost with a mid small man adding at Crim. It started with a ton of hibs and multiple ended up being left behind as we cc cycled. They definitely would have been able to catch up easier with horses.

Fri 22 May 2020 3:43 AM by Highfather17

So are there horses now?

Cause I can definitely improve my grey handling game by horsing around everywhere.

Fri 22 May 2020 4:52 AM by Cadebrennus

Slyther83 wrote: ↑
Fri 22 May 2020 1:17 AM
We'll have our self heals, cleanses, and buffs in no time.

Self heals = IP, FA, heal pot, health regen pot, Heart of Legion, procs

Buffs = pots, procs and charges

Your wish has already been granted

Fri 22 May 2020 6:09 AM by Lollie

Forest sauvage, Upland and crau gorge is about to get a lot busier.

Fri 22 May 2020 2:25 PM by Nunki

Expfighter wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 10:29 PM
Seems like I deleted all my toons at the right moment!

Caster Speed will be useless now

In all the time I played on this server I have never, NEVER heard someone saying "Oh yeah, let's take those caster instead, he has speed3.".

I doubt that this will change the value of speed 3 caster in any way.

Fri 22 May 2020 7:07 PM by lolhisup

I have read the plans for implementation, sounds logical and I respect it.

Sat 23 May 2020 3:52 AM by Pao

Still should be only 100% speed. Getting to a hastener should be a risk reward thing.

Sat 23 May 2020 10:56 AM by Adwaenyth

Necromancer remaining on horse when you hit the pet is somewhat... stupid... pet passive and he won't ever lose speed...

Sat 23 May 2020 11:03 AM by Runental

So instead to report a bug, you come over here and rage, because you think it's intended?
Seriously....

Sat 23 May 2020 3:10 PM by Quik

Runental wrote: ↑
Sat 23 May 2020 11:03 AM
So instead to report a bug, you come over here and rage, because you think it's intended?
Seriously....

Well this was 1 specific thing brought up when this was first mentioned.

People knew this might be an issue and it wasn't corrected even though it was a known possibility, why wouldn't he bring it up again and as many times as needed?

Sat 23 May 2020 4:59 PM by Kwall0311

Horse recast/pop timer should only be on combat imo, the whole waiting 1 min for things like buffing shouldnt be a thing.

Sat 23 May 2020 5:18 PM by Jeninii

For those of you who haven't done the mount quest yet. The prices of the horses are 5 plat once quest completed to 200plat. The armor/barding/saddle is way nutts.. I know this isnt live but atleast they made it so people could actually get a nice horse for 25plat. I feel bad for the new people starting to play. I think the prices need to be lowered. Some of us cant farm plat like others and sell items since the housing market hasn't been cleared out yet from all the non actives. Just a thought...

Sat 23 May 2020 7:28 PM by Higach

bfrtone1 wrote: ↑
Thu 21 May 2020 9:44 PM
Why are people crying a vote was made. the greater number won. When Devs decided to screw around and mess up stealthers when you girls were crying nobody asked for a vote then. So live with the outcome it happens get over it and play the game if you dont like it then quit like you always threaten to do when things dont go your way. Give me my horse.

For one, 51% and getting implemented is ridiculous for a new custom addition. Should take a page from OSRS and learn why they won't add brand new features unless an overwhelming majority (70-75%+ I believe) vote it in

Sat 23 May 2020 8:16 PM by pollojack

Strongly suggest redoing the horse quest.

Begin quest at lvl 5, do the talking to get your horse.

Lvl 10, do some adventuring to upgrade PvE horse speed.

Lvl 30, quest to upgrade to have the horse in RvR.

lvl 40, quest to upgrade horse to max ALLOWED speed in RvR.

This ensures people can use the horses when they are useful and that all classes can easily upgrade their horse, like healers can wait till lvl 50 to kill some ~45 lvl mob.

Other than that, the implementation is great. I don't know why this would negatively effect RvR but we'll see how things go.

Sat 23 May 2020 8:52 PM by phixion

So now everyone has what speed?

Have you thought about how this will negatively affect classes like assassins who rely on positionals?

Sat 23 May 2020 9:09 PM by Quik

phixion wrote: ↑
Sat 23 May 2020 8:52 PM
So now everyone has what speed?

Have you thought about how this will negatively affect classes like assassins who rely on positionals?

I'm not a fan of assassins, but considering the last few changes do you really think they are worried about how this will affect assassins?

Sat 23 May 2020 10:23 PM by Cadebrennus

phixion wrote: ↑
Sat 23 May 2020 8:52 PM
So now everyone has what speed?

Have you thought about how this will negatively affect classes like assassins who rely on positionals?

Has anyone considered how Hasteners will negatively affect classes like Assassins who rely on positionals? Hasteners have been around for a very long time.

If an Assassin can't nail a positional on a Hastener/Horse speed target then they should probably pick another class.

Sun 24 May 2020 8:13 AM by Citian

Oh yes. Oh yes. It's time for speed

Sun 24 May 2020 8:33 AM by

Uthred

Just a reminder:

Log in and test the horses in RvR. They are free for now, so everybody can test them and see about their impact on RvR for himself. When in the frontiers, just do /summon and you will have a basic mount without any barding, etc. They are available for free until the new horse vote (will start in about 3 - 7 days) has been completed. You need to be level 50 to use this command.

Now is your time to stop paper daocing and theorycrafting. Test it ingame and let us know about your experiences.

Sun 24 May 2020 8:42 AM by Citian

Uthred wrote: ↑
Sun 24 May 2020 8:33 AM
Just a reminder:

Log in and test the horses in RvR. They are free for now, so everybody can test them and see about their impact on RvR for himself. When in the frontiers, just do /summon and you will have a basic mount without any barding, etc. They are available for free until the new horse vote (will start in about 3 - 7 days) has been completed. You need to be level 50 to use this command.

Now is your time to stop paper daocing and theorycrafting. Test it ingame and let us know about your experiences.

Delightful change.

Sun 24 May 2020 11:15 AM by Kadal

phixion wrote: ↑
Sat 23 May 2020 8:52 PM
So now everyone has what speed?

Have you thought about how this will negatively affect classes like assassins who rely on positionals?

Have you thought about reading the actual post instead of asking "what speed" and complaining about something you apparently dont know about?

Or do you really have a problem opening on people with hastener speed? Cuz last time i checked everyone runs around with fucking hastener speed.

Sun 24 May 2020 1:22 PM by Lollie

phixion wrote: ↑
Sat 23 May 2020 8:52 PM
So now everyone has what speed?

Have you thought about how this will negatively affect classes like assassins who rely on positionals?

It's OK, only level 50s can use horses so won't affect assassins and thier prey much

Sun 24 May 2020 5:39 PM by Koros

I guess I wouldn't have as bad of an issue with horses, if there wasn't so many other things that needed to happen.

I really don't understand the thought process why they don't fix things that EVERY player wants fixed, yet decide to move forward with horses which only 51% of the population wants. I am not trying to be a baby, but I really am trying to understand the thought process here? Were horses THAT important? So important we still have issues with class balance, non boolean market searches, lack of housing, cheating, and that's just the things I can bring up without having a sit down and thinking about.. The class balance alone is something that is going to take a ton of discussion, testing, and thought..

but instead, horses. I just wish I knew what exactly horses brought to the QoL of this game? If you didn't like running everywhere, get hastener speed, an invig pot and sprint? I have ONE budget speed class, I never went around thinking "man I hate this game sometimes because I have to run to..." But there have been plenty of times where my buddy goes ld 5 times a day, or I lose right button functionality, or I see classes like Minst where I do actually think "Why do I play this?"

Just seems short sited, almost as short sited as broadsword/ea/mythic was. And we all know how well that worked out for them.

Sun 24 May 2020 7:15 PM by shintacki

Koros wrote: ↑
Sun 24 May 2020 5:39 PM
I guess I wouldn't have as bad of an issue with horses, if there wasn't so many other things that needed to happen.

I really don't understand the thought process why they don't fix things that EVERY player wants fixed, yet decide to move forward with horses which only 51% of the population wants. I am not trying to be a baby, but I really am trying to understand the thought process here? Were horses THAT important? So important we still have issues with class balance, non boolean market searches, lack of housing, cheating, and that's just the things I can bring up without having a sit down and thinking about.. The class balance alone is something that is going to take a ton of discussion, testing, and thought..

but instead, horses. I just wish I knew what exactly horses brought to the QoL of this game? If you didn't like running everywhere, get hastener speed, an invig pot and sprint? I have ONE budget speed class, I never went around thinking "man I hate this game sometimes because I have to run to..." But there have been plenty of times where my buddy goes ld 5 times a day, or I lose right button functionality, or I see classes like Minst where I do actually think "Why do I play this?"

Just seems short sited, almost as short sited as broadsword/ea/mythic was. And we all know how well that worked out for them.

I’m no game dev but I’m pretty sure it’s possible for part of a team to work on content updates, like horses, at the same time as the other team members address bug fixes. I don’t particularly like the horses in RvR but I have no issue with them being implemented now. I’m sure the people that run this server have been, and still are, working on bugs and its shortsighted to suggest that this isn’t the case.

Sun 24 May 2020 8:52 PM by Gloti

I’m no game dev but I’m pretty sure it’s possible for part of a team to work on content updates, like horses, at the same time as the other team members address bug fixes.

Conspiracy theorist!!!!1

Sun 24 May 2020 8:53 PM by Koros

shintacki wrote: ↑
Sun 24 May 2020 7:15 PM
Koros wrote: ↑
Sun 24 May 2020 5:39 PM
I guess I wouldn't have as bad of an issue with horses, if there wasn't so many other things that needed to happen.

I really don't understand the thought process why they don't fix things that EVERY player wants fixed, yet decide to move forward with horses which only 51% of the population wants. I am not trying to be a baby, but I really am trying to understand the thought process here? Were horses THAT important? So important we still have issues with class balance, non boolean market searches, lack of housing, cheating, and that's just the things I can bring up without having a sit down and thinking about.. The class balance alone is something that is going to take a ton of discussion, testing, and thought..

but instead, horses. I just wish I knew what exactly horses brought to the QoL of this game? If you didn't like running everywhere, get hastener speed, an invig pot and sprint? I have ONE budget speed class, I never went around thinking "man I hate this game sometimes because I have to run to..." But there have been plenty of times where my buddy goes ld 5 times a day, or I lose right button functionality, or I see classes like Minst where I do actually think "Why do I play this?"

Just seems short sited, almost as short sited as broadsword/ea/mythic was. And we all know how well that worked out for them.

I’m no game dev but I’m pretty sure it’s possible for part of a team to work on content updates, like horses, at the same time as the other team members address bug fixes. I don’t particularly like the horses in RvR but I have no issue with them being implemented now. I’m sure the people that run this server have been, and still are, working on bugs and its shortsighted to suggest that this isn’t the case.

Funny, cause I am! 5 year vet at SCEA, and 5 more years at a small indie house before I retired. So let me expand on the comment you made. When you say things like this, it is usually something someone says about a full studio which have art departments, designers, a production chain manager, product manager, producer, multi programmers who are fluent in different aspects of development (network, memory management, engine, etc) and QA... this isn't a full dev studio with those type of resources. Second bugs aren't the only thing I mentioned, class balance, fixing market searches to be more User friendly, etc etc are all things that could have been fixed just as easy as adding horses instead of diverting strength of the few workers you have into something only 51% of the server even wanted.

Lastly, I also touched on the subject about Mythic, and Broadsword, WHO DID have those resources and look how well that went over for them. They didn't really care how what they put in the game affected the nature of what the game was built on (pvp) instead they tried adding in pve stuff no one asked for, homogenized classes via catacombs abilities, which no one asked for, and in doing so, killed what made DAoC different from every other game... large scale combat.

So I am again saying, repeating the mistakes of those who came before you, while having less resources to fix those mistakes only leads to one thing. A divided player base, which is NEVER good for a game built around large scale pvp.

Sun 24 May 2020 9:09 PM by

Uthred

Koros wrote: ↑
Sun 24 May 2020 5:39 PM
I guess I wouldn't have as bad of an issue with horses, if there wasn't so many other things that needed to happen.

I really don't understand the thought process why they don't fix things that EVERY player wants fixed, yet decide to move forward with horses which only 51% of the population wants. I am not trying to be a baby, but I really am trying to understand the thought process here? Were horses THAT important? So important we still have issues with class balance, non boolean market searches, lack of housing, cheating, and that's just the things I can bring up without having a sit down and thinking about.. The class balance alone is something that is going to take a ton of discussion, testing, and thought..

but instead, horses. I just wish I knew what exactly horses brought to the QoL of this game? If you didn't like running everywhere, get hastener speed, an invig pot and sprint? I have ONE budget speed class, I never went around thinking "man I hate this game sometimes because I have to run to..." But there have been plenty of times where my buddy goes ld 5 times a day, or I lose right button functionality, or I see classes like Minst where I do actually think "Why do I play this?"

Just seems short sited, almost as short sited as broadsword/ea/mythic was. And we all know how well that worked out for them.

Fixes: During the last month we were solving more than 150 bug reports and reduced the backlog down to about 200
Class Balance: Just check the latest threads in this subforum. You may find some class changes (archery, minstrel, crits, etc). If you think any class/classes need more balancing, there is whole subforum called "Suggestions" just for that.
Market searches: Not sure what is broken about the market explorer, but as stated just above: If you have any suggestion, let us know via the suggestions subforum.
Lack of housing: It is already fixed, the lack will be gone in about 2 weeks --> https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=12985
Cheating: Any cheater who gets caught will get punished. Check the ban forum, it gets updated every day
People Lding: I guess you are talking about LDs some players from the US are having. As stated multiple times before: it is not a server issue. It is a routing issue and sadly nothing we can fix.

Anyways, please stay on topic which is horses (not DEVs doing the wrong things again) and any feedback regarding their impact on the game.

Sun 24 May 2020 9:19 PM by

gruenesschaf

Koros wrote: ↑
Sun 24 May 2020 5:39 PM
I really don't understand the thought process why they don't fix things that EVERY player wants fixed, yet decide to move forward with horses which only 51% of the population wants. I am not trying to be a baby, but I really am trying to understand the thought process here? Were horses THAT important? So important we still have issues with class balance, non boolean market searches, lack of housing, cheating, and that's just the things I can bring up without having a sit down and thinking about.. The class balance alone is something that is going to take a ton of discussion, testing, and thought..

but instead, horses. I just wish I knew what exactly horses brought to the QoL of this game? If you didn't like running everywhere, get hastener speed, an invig pot and sprint? I have ONE budget speed class, I never went around thinking "man I hate this game sometimes because I have to run to..." But there have been plenty of times where my buddy goes ld 5 times a day, or I lose right button functionality, or I see classes like Minst where I do actually think "Why do I play this?"

Look through the bug tracker, while there still are quite a few bugs there are basically 4 categories of older bug reports remaining (ignoring recent reports):
1) A few that would require client side changes, this would include any ui changes like the market explorer -> not doing client modifications
2) A majority of them are low impact, this can be due only coming into effect under rare circumstances, only affects a minority of players and/or just inherently low impact
3) A couple that are just difficult to fix as they would either need a really intensive amount of investigation and/or are just not reproducible in a more controlled environment
4) a few that are just being put off due to the amount of work required and may happen at some point

Then why no balance changes? Well, there is not a single change left aside from maybe the 150 range to smite cleric spells that wouldn't cause the greatest QQ about that change heralding the end of the world.

Why horses in particular?
1) The client already supports mounts and mounts are something to look and maybe work towards while not really affecting much
2) Nobody cares about people having speed in pve at all, the only controversial thing is them working in rvr despite the restrictions of our implementation here
3) It's a simple way to curb the inflation a bit / to give a thing to spend the amassed mithril on

Sun 24 May 2020 9:44 PM by Ardri

Horse change is a good thing. GJ devs.

Sun 24 May 2020 10:11 PM by Koros

I want to make it clear, I wasn't saying you guys are doing a bad job, not even close.

My point was you have an issue here. You have an issue where almost half the server doesn't want something, and half that does.

How many of those 50% that DONT want the horses will quit compared to how many who did that will? This server has been around a while now, those who want horses aren't quitting if you didn't add them. Those who don't want to see horses all over, might. Even if its 25% of the 50% of those who didn't, that will kill this server. A game built around large scale pvp won't work if the numbers continue to drop. How many of those players who do keep playing, are playing because they are on furlough from work? How many will still be around after they have to go back? Was not my intention to call out devs. My intention was more to say maybe controversial changes should happen when the overwhelming MAJORITY want it to happen, not when its a 1% difference between yes and no. /shrug.

As for horses in PvE, yes, majority don't care.. which again wasn't my point. My point was there are things that will improve peoples QoL playing your server. I at most heard maybe 2-3 times in the couple of months Ive been playing here anyone complain about horses not being in the game, and at worst after they were told it wasn't a feature they went "darn!"

But EVERYDAY I hear people complain about trying to search rog's on the market, lack of housing zones, class balance like Minstrls, realm populace issues.. Those are complaints I hear every single day from multiple people in and out of my guilds. I play on all 3 realms, with 50's on each. I play 12 hours a day. Again, not argiing to arguing, just trying to voice a concern from what I experience on the daily. I have nothing to lose in this, games come and go, the question is, whats best for the server and you asked our opinion so I gave it. If you didn't want it, why ask the public in the first place.

Mon 25 May 2020 5:44 AM by Astaa

Why would someone quit because of horses? That's just daft.

Mon 25 May 2020 6:43 AM by Kadal

Koros wrote: ↑
Sun 24 May 2020 10:11 PM
I want to make it clear, I wasn't saying you guys are doing a bad job, not even close.

My point was you have an issue here. You have an issue where almost half the server doesn't want something, and half that does.

How many of those 50% that DONT want the horses will quit compared to how many who did that will? This server has been around a while now, those who want horses aren't quitting if you didn't add them. Those who don't want to see horses all over, might. Even if its 25% of the 50% of those who didn't, that will kill this server. A game built around large scale pvp won't work if the numbers continue to drop. How many of those players who do keep playing, are playing because they are on furlough from work? How many will still be around after they have to go back? Was not my intention to call out devs. My intention was more to say maybe controversial changes should happen when the overwhelming MAJORITY want it to happen, not when its a 1% difference between yes and no. /shrug.

As for horses in PvE, yes, majority don't care.. which again wasn't my point. My point was there are things that will improve peoples QoL playing your server. I at most heard maybe 2-3 times in the couple of months Ive been playing here anyone complain about horses not being in the game, and at worst after they were told it wasn't a feature they went "darn!"

But EVERYDAY I hear people complain about trying to search rog's on the market, lack of housing zones, class balance like Minstrls, realm populace issues.. Those are complaints I hear every single day from multiple people in and out of my guilds. I play on all 3 realms, with 50's on each. I play 12 hours a day. Again, not argiing to arguing, just trying to voice a concern from what I experience on the daily. I have nothing to lose in this, games come and go, the question is, whats best for the server and you asked our opinion so I gave it. If you didn't want it, why ask the public in the first place.

im sorry for what u have to deal with devs, thank you for doing it.

Mon 25 May 2020 6:48 AM by Centenario

Just a question about personal mounts:
I use only classic skins, so am I doomed to seeing only the basic horses forever?
People have told me there were some special horses skins, but I can't see them right?

Could there also be some classic version of custom skins?

Mon 25 May 2020 7:43 AM by Sepplord

Koros wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 5:11 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 6:49 AM
Koros wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 8:18 PM
I didn't join a classic server to have a handful of people want to change it to a mix of classic and other expansions, there are multiple freeshards and live where you can have this experience.

There'S quite a bit of irony in there, considering there was a pure classic server that died before Phoenix opened its gates.
You claim to talk for the majority but i believe you are suffering from an echochamber if you really believe that the majority wants a pure classic freeshard, yet they all didn't want to play Uthgard

Quote the whole post, but nice try. I said I play here for the CLASSIC FEEL. I never said I wanted a strict classic server. The only one in an echo chamber is you. You are trying to claim because YOU want horses you speak for the majority? Doubt it, considering almost every single person I play with does not want horses. But hey, I mean I was dropped off my boat 3-4 times today only to be warped into a full group of campers at the drop spot, which I wasn't even wanting to be at to begin with... the market search is horrible and archaic, housing is a mess, but at least we are going to get HORSES!!! WOOOOOOO!!!

Why not play a game that fits what you want instead of always joining a game and trying to force it to cater to change? Is server population a problem? Do you think horses is going to bring hundreds more people here? No. If anything it will lose people... so why exactly would we want time wasted on this? Oh right, because YOU and 25 other people on the forum want it? /laugh. The fact you had to selectively quote my post to try and make your point sound more valid says a lot about the lack of what you have to say.

/shrug I don't care. I'm old, ill find a different hobby.

The irony of that victimplaying and the accusations while i don't even care about horses myself *lol*
So much rage and emotions, but then trying to play it down as if you don't even care and will just switch the game...
Bye then

Mon 25 May 2020 9:07 AM by Cadebrennus

Lollie wrote: ↑
Sun 24 May 2020 1:22 PM
phixion wrote: ↑
Sat 23 May 2020 8:52 PM
So now everyone has what speed?

Have you thought about how this will negatively affect classes like assassins who rely on positionals?

It's OK, only level 50s can use horses so won't affect assassins and thier prey much

.

Mon 25 May 2020 9:10 AM by Cadebrennus

Centenario wrote: ↑
Mon 25 May 2020 6:48 AM
Just a question about personal mounts:
I use only classic skins, so am I doomed to seeing only the basic horses forever?
People have told me there were some special horses skins, but I can't see them right?

Could there also be some classic version of custom skins?

You can set some models to classic and some to new models. You can have everything classic except for horses.

Mon 25 May 2020 2:32 PM by Pzynom

HI,

following would help me to favor "horses".

- Option to turn off "roaring" sound - totally annoys me
- Option to turn off Horses Graphics (or make it a buff in rvr). Some are here for the visual classic experience. This option would give both parties what they want.

Besides that, as a speed caster class I still see the advantage of more non-speed classes roaming, like that.

Thanks Pzy

Mon 25 May 2020 4:56 PM by joshisanonymous

Centenario wrote: ↑
Mon 25 May 2020 6:48 AM
Just a question about personal mounts:
I use only classic skins, so am I doomed to seeing only the basic horses forever?
People have told me there were some special horses skins, but I can't see them right?

Could there also be some classic version of custom skins?

This is actually one of the things that's making horses more palatable to me. Do you really wanna see all the rainbow unicorns and cyborg horses in RvR? *shudder* That's not even an exaggeration. Those models exist.

Mon 25 May 2020 4:59 PM by joshisanonymous

Pzynom wrote: ↑
Mon 25 May 2020 2:32 PM
HI,

following would help me to favor "horses".

- Option to turn off "roaring" sound - totally annoys me
- Option to turn off Horses Graphics (or make it a buff in rvr). Some are here for the visual classic experience. This option would give both parties what they want.

Besides that, as a speed caster class I still see the advantage of more non-speed classes roaming, like that.

Thanks Pzy

I've yet to see a single non-speed class roaming on a horse. It's still just docks and minstrels for solos as far as I can tell.

I would much rather it be a buff in RvR, too, if it has to stay, though.

Mon 25 May 2020 6:16 PM by Rekp

Can dev's please turn off the dumb NEIGH noise that everyone spams? If not, can we just have speed of the realm potions instead? Make it a 1-2 min recast when not in combat similar to buff potions.... DONE.. and no dumb horses in the game spamming noise. Not sure why this is such a big deal to everyone.

Solo benefits of speed of the realm potion: I can get around better on my solo valewalker or other non-speed character. This allows me to get to where I am going. Most fights are going to be after I jump off a boat while having speed of the realm from a hastener anyway.

Mon 25 May 2020 7:06 PM by necrolove1

I really enjoy the horses and as i suspected after a couple days, literally nothing has changed. I think after people have tested it and the vote is done again, the vote will be much more lopsided in favor of horses.

Mon 25 May 2020 7:18 PM by Quik

necrolove1 wrote: ↑
Mon 25 May 2020 7:06 PM
I really enjoy the horses and as i suspected after a couple days, literally nothing has changed. I think after people have tested it and the vote is done again, the vote will be much more lopsided in favor of horses.

Maybe, but the only places I see horses is in town, I haven't even seen horses in RvR to any degree, so I'm not sure as many people love them as they thought they would.

Guidies used them for a few hours and now I don't even here people talking about them now.

Mon 25 May 2020 8:03 PM by joshisanonymous

necrolove1 wrote: ↑
Mon 25 May 2020 7:06 PM
I really enjoy the horses and as i suspected after a couple days, literally nothing has changed. I think after people have tested it and the vote is done again, the vote will be much more lopsided in favor of horses.

Nothing changed because there was no reason to add hideous horses to RvR. We already had hasteners, which are more strategic and already exist in practically every spot where you might go without a speed class other than the solo zones. I've seen no one soloing on any classes that people weren't already soloing on; it's still 95% stealthers and minstrels. I've found the action to be no better away from docks because, naturally, random-location-in-NF is not a meaningful destination for anyone.

The only thing these horses are good for is taking money out of circulation. Otherwise, all they've done is make the game look uglier and make it more practical to farm XPers.

Tue 26 May 2020 6:53 AM by Noashakra

The reason why nobody uses them is because you have to wait of freaking minute after ANY action (stealth, pots, etc) and that made them useless.

Tue 26 May 2020 7:38 AM by Patron

Koros wrote: ↑
Sun 24 May 2020 10:11 PM
I play 12 hours a day.

Nuff said... Lawl!

Noone leave this beautyful project because of horses...
And player cry, thats in their nature.
Me included. About this, about that...
Phoenix is the best! And only the thumbest rats leaving a ship which not sinking.

Tue 26 May 2020 8:39 AM by Citian

"...In rvr zones they will be limited to hastener speed and in pve zones they will have speed 5, they won't be usable in dungeons. There will be a 1 minute cd after any kind of combat to summon a horse. You will dismount whenever hastener speed would break (attacking or being attacked) but also when you start casting."

"The reason why nobody uses them is because you have to wait of freaking minute after ANY action (stealth, pots, etc) and that made them useless."

That's some oversight in intention, if true, and unfortunate. One minute seems like a stretch to begin with without actions outside of combat triggering the cool down as well. I can see how this might skew the vote negatively. The trial period shouldn't be loaded for the mounts to seem useless. It is a normal response for people to either not waste their time coming back, if they were fans of OF, or to try their hands at new characters because of RR advantages: so upticks in solo classes in terms of diversity is probably not a reliable statistic.

Hopefully that wasn't the intention of the mounts and they get fixed or pushed towards a more progressive state (or some of these other ideas about speed pots are picked up as alternatives with lowered timers).

Tue 26 May 2020 10:07 AM by Centenario

Overall, I think the horses work, but they need to be introduced gradually from lvl 10 onward and could be better integrated into the game via quest.

I would have wanted the horses to be available from lvl 10 onward, with the horse speed growing proportionally to lvl:
- lvl 10 = Speed 1
- lvl 20 = Speed 2
[...]
- lvl 50 = Speed 5
This would allow me to go solo exploring and killing mobs, while leveling, maybe discover SI zones...
It should also be available in battlegrounds.

I would also suggest to tie this to a quest that is different for each class, and not as annoying as the necklace SI quest (mindless transit).
The quest is not mandatory, player can just upgrade the horse for money, but the quest would give 1lvl worth of exp and maybe help to discover exp spots.

Horses are a good addition to RvR in my opinion. I can now stop a kill somebody on my way to somewhere, before I had to avoid enemies/mobs just to avoid losing speed.

Tue 26 May 2020 11:48 AM by Cadebrennus

Centenario wrote: ↑
Tue 26 May 2020 10:07 AM
Overall, I think the horses work, but they need to be introduced gradually from lvl 10 onward and could be better integrated into the game via quest.

I would have wanted the horses to be available from lvl 10 onward, with the horse speed growing proportionally to lvl:
- lvl 10 = Speed 1
- lvl 20 = Speed 2
[...]
- lvl 50 = Speed 5
This would allow me to go solo exploring and killing mobs, while leveling, maybe discover SI zones...
It should also be available in battlegrounds.

I would also suggest to tie this to a quest that is different for each class, and not as annoying as the necklace SI quest (mindless transit).
The quest is not mandatory, player can just upgrade the horse for money, but the quest would give 1lvl worth of exp and maybe help to discover exp spots.

Horses are a good addition to RvR in my opinion. I can now stop a kill somebody on my way to somewhere, before I had to avoid enemies/mobs just to avoid losing speed.

That is a well thought out, coherent, and balanced argument.

Your kind is a rare breed in these forums lol

Tue 26 May 2020 3:02 PM by watbrif

Centenario wrote: ↑
Tue 26 May 2020 10:07 AM
Overall, I think the horses work, but they need to be introduced gradually from lvl 10 onward and could be better integrated into the game via quest.

I would have wanted the horses to be available from lvl 10 onward, with the horse speed growing proportionally to lvl:
- lvl 10 = Speed 1
- lvl 20 = Speed 2
[...]
- lvl 50 = Speed 5
This would allow me to go solo exploring and killing mobs, while leveling, maybe discover SI zones...
It should also be available in battlegrounds.

I would also suggest to tie this to a quest that is different for each class, and not as annoying as the necklace SI quest (mindless transit).
The quest is not mandatory, player can just upgrade the horse for money, but the quest would give 1lvl worth of exp and maybe help to discover exp spots.

Horses are a good addition to RvR in my opinion. I can now stop a kill somebody on my way to somewhere, before I had to avoid enemies/mobs just to avoid losing speed.

I completely agree that pve horses should be usable from early on. This simply helps to explore different parts of the realm and/or to get to places (for instance your group) more easily. There's nothing more annoying than running from A to B with hastener speed only to have your speed broken by some nasty green mob that you didn't see ...

Tue 26 May 2020 3:32 PM by Taniquetil

1 flaw. Not sure if already noted.

Cant summon mount from stealth....if unstealthing need to wait 1 min to summon mount.

Seems like a bug/oversight.

I get the 1 minute timer, but should be the same as combat for buffing, not for just unstealthing in order to obey the rule of not being able to be stealthed to mount a horse.

Tue 26 May 2020 3:54 PM by Quik

Here we go...all the complaints now that horses are in that they aren't as good as everyone wants.

I really hope the dev's are paying attention to this...they finally cave in to half the population, and within 2 days people already want less restrictions...

Hope it was worth it for ya Dev's...

Tue 26 May 2020 6:29 PM by Taniquetil

Quik wrote: Here we go...all the complaints now that horses are in that they aren't as good as everyone wants.

I really hope the dev's are paying attention to this...they finally cave in to half the population, and within 2 days people already want less restrictions...

Hope it was worth it for ya Dev's...

Feedback.... an important part of any dialogue. The horses are a good idea in principle, I gave an opinion, an issue and a rationale as to why something might want to be tweaked, whilst trying to be polite about it. You just spewed some drivel, not entirely sure why.

Tue 26 May 2020 6:50 PM by Quik

Taniquetil wrote: ↑
Tue 26 May 2020 6:29 PM
Quik wrote: Here we go...all the complaints now that horses are in that they aren't as good as everyone wants.

I really hope the dev's are paying attention to this...they finally cave in to half the population, and within 2 days people already want less restrictions...

Hope it was worth it for ya Dev's...

Feedback.... an important part of any dialogue. The horses are a good idea in principle, I gave an opinion, an issue and a rationale as to why something might want to be tweaked, whilst trying to be polite about it. You just spewed some drivel, not entirely sure why.

Because a lot of us knew this would happen.

They would implement mounts with restrictions and everyone would be excited.

Then the complaints would start and the desire to start removing said restrictions.

It will start with "doesn't work after using pots" or "doesn't work after unstealthing" or whatever and it will cascade until either the dev's remove all restrictions (which will be the eventual outcome) or they stay with the existing restrictions.

As soon as they remove 1 of the restrictions there is going to be a multitude of the 51% that wanted horses wanting more restrictions lifted.

I am one of the 49% that don't want horses, but I haven't complained about mounts since they were implemented and I am giving it a chance, but I am hoping the dev's stick with the current restrictions or just outright announce that horses will have an anytime use because that is what it will be pushed to.

Keep in mind, I don't disagree with you on unstealthing and the fact it resets the timer, but the minute they remove ANY restrictions the dam will burst...

And as for why I state this? As you said, it is feedback and is just as valid as your point but thanx for acting like you are the only one with a right to an opinion =)

Tue 26 May 2020 8:31 PM by Taniquetil

Think you're jumping to conclusions there then. Fixing something that's obviously a bug doesnt really open the door to un needed customisations. never said you're not allowed an opinion. Just the nonsense complaints to devs about something that probably wont happen seems silly when you agree with the statement I put forward.

Whatever, enjoy.

Tue 26 May 2020 8:50 PM by

gruenesschaf

The restrictions are pretty much as intended for rvr, every ability (except sprint) and every style / skill / spell usage starts it as well as every received or made attack. This pretty much puts it in line with picking up hastener speed again in terms of time investment while making you more flexible as to where you can roam with hastener speed.

PvE would be a different story, the only thing that has to be avoided is any kind of impact on kiting or pulling.

Tue 26 May 2020 9:11 PM by Cadebrennus

Taniquetil wrote: ↑
Tue 26 May 2020 3:32 PM
1 flaw. Not sure if already noted.

Cant summon mount from stealth....if unstealthing need to wait 1 min to summon mount.

Seems like a bug/oversight.

I get the 1 minute timer, but should be the same as combat for buffing, not for just unstealthing in order to obey the rule of not being able to be stealthed to mount a horse.

The 1 minute timer after stealthing/unstealthing makes sense. Stealth in this game is a near-godly abilities with no drawbacks. I think being unstealthed and vulnerable for a whole minute just like the other classes while waiting for a horse sounds perfectly acceptable to me. The only thing that I can't make sense of is the simple act of drawing a weapon or nocking an arrow knocks you off of your horse and sets the 1 minute timer.

Tue 26 May 2020 9:15 PM by Quik

Taniquetil wrote: ↑
Tue 26 May 2020 8:31 PM
Think you're jumping to conclusions there then. Fixing something that's obviously a bug doesnt really open the door to un needed customisations. never said you're not allowed an opinion. Just the nonsense complaints to devs about something that probably wont happen seems silly when you agree with the statement I put forward.

Whatever, enjoy.

You assuming it is an obvious bug is the jump to a conclusion.

Here's is hoping gruenesschaf is correct and all current restrictions stay, which would imply you did jump to a conclusion and it isn't an obvious bug...

Wed 27 May 2020 12:50 AM by alex200k

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 26 May 2020 9:11 PM
Taniquetil wrote: ↑
Tue 26 May 2020 3:32 PM
1 flaw. Not sure if already noted.

Cant summon mount from stealth....if unstealthing need to wait 1 min to summon mount.

Seems like a bug/oversight.

I get the 1 minute timer, but should be the same as combat for buffing, not for just unstealthing in order to obey the rule of not being able to be stealthed to mount a horse.

The 1 minute timer after stealthing/unstealthing makes sense. Stealth in this game is a near-godly abilities with no drawbacks. I think being unstealthed and vulnerable for a whole minute just like the other classes while waiting for a horse sounds perfectly acceptable to me. The only thing that I can't make sense of is the simple act of drawing a weapon or nocking an arrow knocks you off of your horse and sets the 1 minute timer.

While Minstrels can stealth/unstealth without breaking SoS

Wed 27 May 2020 6:53 AM by Noashakra

Ok you put some limitations but they make the horses useless and that why I didn't see one person use them in rvr so far.

One minute is way too long. You need to be out of combat one minute to use a buff pot and then you need to wait 1mn for the horse...

Saying stealth is godlike... Not true, but ok. You still need to get out of stealth summon the horse (which mean you need to wait 5secs to stealth again if you cancel the summon) and then you can't go to stealth while riding it...

I spent 5p on one character, and I will not bother to do this really annoying quest again for any other toon. Not worth it.

Wed 27 May 2020 9:57 AM by Luluko

Should be able to summon the horse after you have been 1min out of combat, item uses shouldnt affect the timer. That you have to be out of stealth for a while is acceptable I think but 30secs out of stealth and 1min out combat should be enough to summon them. But it shouldnt add up to 1:30min.

Thu 28 May 2020 12:30 PM by Luluko

Also ra's like mcl/fa shouldnt reset the 60sek timer.

Thu 28 May 2020 12:48 PM by

Uthred

The final voting about horses in rvr yay or nay is active now. You need to have at least one lvl 50, rr3+ toon on your acc to vote. Do ingame /vote to see your options.

Thu 28 May 2020 12:57 PM by Lollie

missed a trick there by not saying "yay or neigh!"

Thu 28 May 2020 3:44 PM by Quik

Uthred wrote: ↑
Thu 28 May 2020 12:48 PM
The final voting about horses in rvr yay or nay is active now. You need to have at least one lvl 50, rr3+ toon on your acc to vote. Do ingame /vote to see your options.

Are we voting on the horses EXACTLY how they are now with ALL the current restrictions? Or will things be loosened at ALL down the road?

I can live with the horses currently implemented like they are, but if the 1 min timer will be lessened for pots or stealth or anything I will be voting no.

Thu 28 May 2020 4:06 PM by

Uthred

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 26 May 2020 8:50 PM
The restrictions are pretty much as intended for rvr, every ability (except sprint) and every style / skill / spell usage starts it as well as every received or made attack. This pretty much puts it in line with picking up hastener speed again in terms of time investment while making you more flexible as to where you can roam with hastener speed.

PvE would be a different story, the only thing that has to be avoided is any kind of impact on kiting or pulling.

So yes.

Thu 28 May 2020 4:14 PM by joshisanonymous

Quik wrote: ↑
Thu 28 May 2020 3:44 PM
Are we voting on the horses EXACTLY how they are now with ALL the current restrictions? Or will things be loosened at ALL down the road?

I can live with the horses currently implemented like they are, but if the 1 min timer will be lessened for pots or stealth or anything I will be voting no.

I have similar feelings about it. Of course I don't mind mounts how they're currently implemented because I never see them given how severe the restrictions are on them. It's sorta how I'm against the PvP Zone but don't really care that it's still there because no one wants to use it in its current state anyway. However, it's pretty likely that people will continually push for those restrictions to be lifted, just as they still post about making the PvP Zone back into the RP farm that it was the first day.

I think I'll be voting yes with the caveat that I'd like to see hastener/mount speed made meaningfully slower than caster speed, just in general really, but especially if mount restrictions are ever lowered.

Thu 28 May 2020 4:16 PM by Quik

joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Thu 28 May 2020 4:14 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Thu 28 May 2020 3:44 PM
Are we voting on the horses EXACTLY how they are now with ALL the current restrictions? Or will things be loosened at ALL down the road?

I can live with the horses currently implemented like they are, but if the 1 min timer will be lessened for pots or stealth or anything I will be voting no.

I have similar feelings about it. Of course I don't mind mounts how they're currently implemented because I never see them given how severe the restrictions are on them. It's sorta how I'm against the PvP Zone but don't really care that it's still there because no one wants to use it in its current state anyway. However, it's pretty likely that people will continually push for those restrictions to be lifted, just as they still post about making the PvP Zone back into the RP farm that it was the first day.

I think I'll be voting yes with the caveat that I'd like to see hastener/mount speed made meaningfully slower than caster speed, just in general really, but especially if mount restrictions are ever lowered.

I'm torn because I'm afraid if I vote yes, they WILL lessen the restrictions later which I am against...

Thu 28 May 2020 4:52 PM by Pylania

Quik wrote: ↑
Thu 28 May 2020 4:16 PM
joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Thu 28 May 2020 4:14 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Thu 28 May 2020 3:44 PM
Are we voting on the horses EXACTLY how they are now with ALL the current restrictions? Or will things be loosened at ALL down the road?

I can live with the horses currently implemented like they are, but if the 1 min timer will be lessened for pots or stealth or anything I will be voting no.

I have similar feelings about it. Of course I don't mind mounts how they're currently implemented because I never see them given how severe the restrictions are on them. It's sorta how I'm against the PvP Zone but don't really care that it's still there because no one wants to use it in its current state anyway. However, it's pretty likely that people will continually push for those restrictions to be lifted, just as they still post about making the PvP Zone back into the RP farm that it was the first day.

I think I'll be voting yes with the caveat that I'd like to see hastener/mount speed made meaningfully slower than caster speed, just in general really, but especially if mount restrictions are ever lowered.

I'm torn because I'm afraid if I vote yes, they WILL lessen the restrictions later which I am against...

Deine Sig: Es ist ein Spiel und ein Spiel soll jedem Spaß machen, nicht nur einigen wenigen, die wollen, dass jeder seinen Weg spielt!

Und wenn du davor Angst hast, dann hattest du noch nie Angst und sollst mit Real Life anfangen und dich aus den spielen zurück ziehst.

Fri 29 May 2020 7:07 AM by Cadebrennus

Luluko wrote: ↑
Wed 27 May 2020 9:57 AM
Should be able to summon the horse after you have been 1min out of combat, item uses shouldnt affect the timer. That you have to be out of stealth for a while is acceptable I think but 30secs out of stealth and 1min out combat should be enough to summon them. But it shouldnt add up to 1:30min.

Agreed, except for the stealth. Make stealth have consequences.

Fri 29 May 2020 7:25 AM by inoeth

Pylania wrote: ↑
Thu 28 May 2020 4:52 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Thu 28 May 2020 4:16 PM
joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Thu 28 May 2020 4:14 PM
I have similar feelings about it. Of course I don't mind mounts how they're currently implemented because I never see them given how severe the restrictions are on them. It's sorta how I'm against the PvP Zone but don't really care that it's still there because no one wants to use it in its current state anyway. However, it's pretty likely that people will continually push for those restrictions to be lifted, just as they still post about making the PvP Zone back into the RP farm that it was the first day.

I think I'll be voting yes with the caveat that I'd like to see hastener/mount speed made meaningfully slower than caster speed, just in general really, but especially if mount restrictions are ever lowered.

I'm torn because I'm afraid if I vote yes, they WILL lessen the restrictions later which I am against...

Deine Sig: Es ist ein Spiel und ein Spiel soll jedem Spaß machen, nicht nur einigen wenigen, die wollen, dass jeder seinen Weg spielt!

Und wenn du davor Angst hast, dann hattest du noch nie Angst und sollst mit Real Life anfangen und dich aus den spielen zurück ziehst.

wonder why he still has that in.... there were alrdy so many ppl that told him the exact same thing ... me too

Fri 29 May 2020 10:30 AM by Wasa

inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 29 May 2020 7:25 AM
Pylania wrote: ↑
Thu 28 May 2020 4:52 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Thu 28 May 2020 4:16 PM
I'm torn because I'm afraid if I vote yes, they WILL lessen the restrictions later which I am against...

Deine Sig: Es ist ein Spiel und ein Spiel soll jedem Spaß machen, nicht nur einigen wenigen, die wollen, dass jeder seinen Weg spielt!

Und wenn du davor Angst hast, dann hattest du noch nie Angst und sollst mit Real Life anfangen und dich aus den spielen zurück ziehst.

wonder why he still has that in.... there were alrdy so many ppl that told him the exact same thing ... me too

Guess, this sig is a statement to the very basics of each game. It was build up (many years ago) when players came and begging for changes to customize it for their playstyle.

My opinion: develope and improve the game, but don‘t turn it upside-down.

I like this sig, agree to it.

Fri 29 May 2020 11:01 AM by inoeth

Wasa wrote: ↑
Fri 29 May 2020 10:30 AM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 29 May 2020 7:25 AM
Pylania wrote: ↑
Thu 28 May 2020 4:52 PM
Deine Sig: Es ist ein Spiel und ein Spiel soll jedem Spaß machen, nicht nur einigen wenigen, die wollen, dass jeder seinen Weg spielt!

Und wenn du davor Angst hast, dann hattest du noch nie Angst und sollst mit Real Life anfangen und dich aus den spielen zurück ziehst.

wonder why he still has that in.... there were alrdy so many ppl that told him the exact same thing ... me too

Guess, this sig is a statement to the very basics of each game. It was build up (many years ago) when players came and begging for changes to customize it for their playstyle.

My opinion: develope and improve the game, but don‘t turn it upside-down.

I like this sig, agree to it.

i also agree to it but he himself stated the opposite several times ;D thats why many complained about that

Fri 29 May 2020 11:09 AM by Sepplord

Pylania wrote: ↑
Thu 28 May 2020 4:52 PM
Und wenn du davor Angst hast, dann hattest du noch nie Angst und sollst mit Real Life anfangen und dich aus den spielen zurück ziehst.

Vor etwas Angst haben
VS
etwas befürchten

befürchten. Bedeutungen: [1] der Ansicht sein, dass etwas Unangenehmes eintritt oder geschieht.

z.B. "Ich befürchte, dass es morgen regnet", würdest du darauf auch antworten "wenn du Angst vor Regen hast solltest du mit einem Psychologen sprechen, duuuh"?

(und da du solche Unterschiede nicht verstehst musst du evtl auch noch einiges IRL lernen und nicht deine Zeit in spieleforen vergeuden...nur um das Klischee der Retourkutsche rauszuholen)

Fri 29 May 2020 11:41 AM by inoeth

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 29 May 2020 11:09 AM
Pylania wrote: ↑
Thu 28 May 2020 4:52 PM
Und wenn du davor Angst hast, dann hattest du noch nie Angst und sollst mit Real Life anfangen und dich aus den spielen zurück ziehst.

Vor etwas Angst haben
VS
etwas befürchten

befürchten. Bedeutungen: [1] der Ansicht sein, dass etwas Unangenehmes eintritt oder geschieht.

z.B. "Ich befürchte, dass es morgen regnet", würdest du darauf auch antworten "wenn du Angst vor Regen hast solltest du mit einem Psychologen sprechen, duuuh"?

(und da du solche Unterschiede nicht verstehst musst du evtl auch noch einiges IRL lernen und nicht deine Zeit in spieleforen vergeuden...nur um das Klischee der Retourkutsche rauszuholen)

corrected that for you

Fri 29 May 2020 12:20 PM by phixion

Kadal wrote: ↑
Sun 24 May 2020 11:15 AM
Have you thought about reading the actual post instead of asking "what speed" and complaining about something you apparently dont know about?

Or do you really have a problem opening on people with hastener speed? Cuz last time i checked everyone runs around with fucking hastener speed.

No, not everyone runs around with hastener speed "cuz" it drops in combat.

Ever wondered why stealthers congregate around the same choke points? Because it's harder to catch people in the open, especially when they move at faster speed.

Fri 29 May 2020 2:53 PM by Kadal

phixion wrote: ↑
Fri 29 May 2020 12:20 PM
Kadal wrote: ↑
Sun 24 May 2020 11:15 AM
Have you thought about reading the actual post instead of asking "what speed" and complaining about something you apparently dont know about?

Or do you really have a problem opening on people with hastener speed? Cuz last time i checked everyone runs around with fucking hastener speed.

No, not everyone runs around with hastener speed "cuz" it drops in combat.

Ever wondered why stealthers congregate around the same choke points? Because it's harder to catch people in the open, especially when they move at faster speed.

i mean sure it drops in combat, but soloers are usually around bridges/docks anyway, where they just refresh their buff usually no? also nice unneeded jab at my way of shortening "because".

i dont think the reason is "because its harder to catch people in the open" which by itself is obviously true. typical choke points are just places where most people pass by and where u can find other solos. i would go out in the open if i had an incentive to do so.

but i guess we went a bit offtopic didnt we? horses didnt change anything at all, which you could have assumed if u read the announcement post considering all the restrictions, so i guess you can be happy. if u want hastener speed removed i guess u need to open another thread.

Fri 29 May 2020 7:50 PM by Pylania

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 29 May 2020 11:09 AM
Pylania wrote: ↑
Thu 28 May 2020 4:52 PM
Und wenn du davor Angst hast, dann hattest du noch nie Angst und sollst mit Real Life anfangen und dich aus den spielen zurück ziehst.

Vor etwas Angst haben
VS
etwas befürchten

befürchten. Bedeutungen: [1] der Ansicht sein, dass etwas Unangenehmes eintritt oder geschieht.

z.B. "Ich befürchte, dass es morgen regnet", würdest du darauf auch antworten "wenn du Angst vor Regen hast solltest du mit einem Psychologen sprechen, duuuh"?

(und da du solche Unterschiede nicht verstehst musst du evtl auch noch einiges IRL lernen und nicht deine Zeit in spieleforen vergeuden...nur um das Klischee der Retourkutsche rauszuholen)

hast Recht QQ, du hast mit allem Recht QQ du müsstest ein Psychologe sein :-D

PS: lasse die sprache von dem Google übersetzen....aber du hast trotzdem Recht

Sat 30 May 2020 2:10 AM by phixion

Kadal wrote: ↑
Fri 29 May 2020 2:53 PM
i mean sure it drops in combat, but soloers are usually around bridges/docks anyway, where they just refresh their buff usually no?

no. it's quite obvious they don't instantly acquire hastener speed.

Sat 30 May 2020 4:16 AM by Kadal

phixion wrote: ↑
Sat 30 May 2020 2:10 AM
Kadal wrote: ↑
Fri 29 May 2020 2:53 PM
i mean sure it drops in combat, but soloers are usually around bridges/docks anyway, where they just refresh their buff usually no?

no. it's quite obvious they don't instantly acquire hastener speed.

ok.

Tue 2 Jun 2020 3:32 PM by Quik

Did I miss the results of the second horse vote?

Sat 6 Jun 2020 5:54 PM by zan

Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 3:32 PM
Did I miss the results of the second horse vote?

same
Are horses now permanent in game now? rvr aswell?

Sat 6 Jun 2020 6:22 PM by Quik

zan wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jun 2020 5:54 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 3:32 PM
Did I miss the results of the second horse vote?

same
Are horses now permanent in game now? rvr aswell?

Uthred said the vote is ongoing...no results currently.

They are permanent in PvE...the vote is still going for RvR.

Sat 6 Jun 2020 7:50 PM by stewbeedoo

Luluko wrote: ↑
Wed 27 May 2020 9:57 AM
Should be able to summon the horse after you have been 1min out of combat, item uses shouldnt affect the timer. That you have to be out of stealth for a while is acceptable I think but 30secs out of stealth and 1min out combat should be enough to summon them. But it shouldnt add up to 1:30min.

In general, I'm liking the horse to solo on a visi - way better than slowly sprinting if you've had a fight nowhere near a hastener.

However, yes, the item /use thing is super annoying. You should be able to buff while mounted.

I think the 60 second timer is also a bit long.

Sat 6 Jun 2020 8:30 PM by joshisanonymous

stewbeedoo wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jun 2020 7:50 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Wed 27 May 2020 9:57 AM
Should be able to summon the horse after you have been 1min out of combat, item uses shouldnt affect the timer. That you have to be out of stealth for a while is acceptable I think but 30secs out of stealth and 1min out combat should be enough to summon them. But it shouldnt add up to 1:30min.

In general, I'm liking the horse to solo on a visi - way better than slowly sprinting if you've had a fight nowhere near a hastener.

However, yes, the item /use thing is super annoying. You should be able to buff while mounted.

I think the 60 second timer is also a bit long.

I'm not sure which /use you're talking about, but I have no problem using combined draughts and then immediately calling my mount. Self-casted buffs are a different story, but I like this limitation as it helps make horses nothing more than convenience in RvR.

Sat 6 Jun 2020 10:51 PM by stewbeedoo

joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jun 2020 8:30 PM
stewbeedoo wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jun 2020 7:50 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Wed 27 May 2020 9:57 AM
Should be able to summon the horse after you have been 1min out of combat, item uses shouldnt affect the timer. That you have to be out of stealth for a while is acceptable I think but 30secs out of stealth and 1min out combat should be enough to summon them. But it shouldnt add up to 1:30min.

In general, I'm liking the horse to solo on a visi - way better than slowly sprinting if you've had a fight nowhere near a hastener.

However, yes, the item /use thing is super annoying. You should be able to buff while mounted.

I think the 60 second timer is also a bit long.

I'm not sure which /use you're talking about, but I have no problem using combined draughts and then immediately calling my mount. Self-casted buffs are a different story, but I like this limitation as it helps make horses nothing more than convenience in RvR.

Sorry - What I am talking about is AFTER you have summoned your mount and need to use an ablative or AF buff while riding. Then you are dismounted and the 60 second timer restarts. I also think self-casted buffs should not cause a dismount. As with Live, attacking something should cause a dismount.

Sun 7 Jun 2020 12:28 PM by

Uthred

Here is the result of the final voting:

Yes: 1187 / ~ 52%
No: 1097 / ~ 48%

Horses in RvR will stay in. After the next reboot the free RvR horses (/summon) will be disabled.

I also updated the first post with the voting result.