Spec charge 75 - Phoenix Freeshard

Since horse was a "BIG NO" 1 year ago and you change your mind about it. Can you give back 75 value for str/c d/q and acuity charge ?

You have litteraly nerf everything so far. Less crit chance, more hp. Can we at least get back our 75 value charge instead of having something totaly useless ? Charge items were nice cause it was a good way to spend money and was usefull cause you were in need of feathers to get them (more people in pve). Now it's just random items that no one need cause the charges are the same value than pots and they got less stats than rogs. What the point having those items into vendors anymore except for... Nothing.

And if you want us to spend money into something : don't do it with a 5pp horse for each chars... Make it into something really usefull like the topic name.

Tue 19 May 2020 4:19 PM by Jeterix

Did the server already vote about horses?

I vote yes for 75 delve spec charges. Actually nerfing spec buff charges was a significant nerf to spellcasters because now acuity charges are useless.

Tue 19 May 2020 8:24 PM by Symptomettes

I think there is an in game vote atm about horses.

Lot of people were asking for it in many different post... And it would be super easy to remake charges at the right value, like it is supposed to be. I mean come on, the charge nerf was a pain in the ass for lot of classes to get his optimal damage / cast speed.

Optimization was always an important thing in daoc and you have mostly killed that with high rog and easy way to temp : Give a little love to player that want to be super efficient in rvr. You are working for balance and stuff : It will helps solo, small man and grp to perform even better and to get mostly the same stats...

Wed 20 May 2020 7:04 AM by Sepplord

High Value charges turn the game into a waiting game to buff up, alternatively into an even more random-encounter-game that is decided on who is how far in their buffcycle

IF higher buffs should come back they should just buff the combined forces pot....but i am sure there are very good reasons against that regarding the buffclasses and groupsetups between realms

Wed 20 May 2020 9:06 AM by Lollie

Symptomettes wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 8:24 PM
I think there is an in game vote atm about horses.

Lot of people were asking for it in many different post... And it would be super easy to remake charges at the right value, like it is supposed to be. I mean come on, the charge nerf was a pain in the ass for lot of classes to get his optimal damage / cast speed.

Optimization was always an important thing in daoc and you have mostly killed that with high rog and easy way to temp : Give a little love to player that want to be super efficient in rvr. You are working for balance and stuff : It will helps solo, small man and grp to perform even better and to get mostly the same stats...

i think the ket word there is "balance", at the moment everyone is pretty much on even par with regards to buffs, if you start throwing 75 charges into the mix it becomes a game between the haves and have nots and makes the charges a must have item.

Wed 20 May 2020 9:08 AM by gotwqqd

Lollie wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 9:06 AM
Symptomettes wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 8:24 PM
I think there is an in game vote atm about horses.

Lot of people were asking for it in many different post... And it would be super easy to remake charges at the right value, like it is supposed to be. I mean come on, the charge nerf was a pain in the ass for lot of classes to get his optimal damage / cast speed.

Optimization was always an important thing in daoc and you have mostly killed that with high rog and easy way to temp : Give a little love to player that want to be super efficient in rvr. You are working for balance and stuff : It will helps solo, small man and grp to perform even better and to get mostly the same stats...

i think the ket word there is "balance", at the moment everyone is pretty much on even par with regards to buffs, if you start throwing 75 charges into the mix it becomes a game between the haves and have nots and makes the charges a must have item.

Sort of like heart of legion

Wed 20 May 2020 9:13 AM by inoeth

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 9:08 AM
Lollie wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 9:06 AM
Symptomettes wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 8:24 PM
I think there is an in game vote atm about horses.

Lot of people were asking for it in many different post... And it would be super easy to remake charges at the right value, like it is supposed to be. I mean come on, the charge nerf was a pain in the ass for lot of classes to get his optimal damage / cast speed.

Optimization was always an important thing in daoc and you have mostly killed that with high rog and easy way to temp : Give a little love to player that want to be super efficient in rvr. You are working for balance and stuff : It will helps solo, small man and grp to perform even better and to get mostly the same stats...

i think the ket word there is "balance", at the moment everyone is pretty much on even par with regards to buffs, if you start throwing 75 charges into the mix it becomes a game between the haves and have nots and makes the charges a must have item.

Sort of like heart of legion

its not a must have

Wed 20 May 2020 9:30 AM by Cadebrennus

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 9:13 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 9:08 AM
Lollie wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 9:06 AM
i think the ket word there is "balance", at the moment everyone is pretty much on even par with regards to buffs, if you start throwing 75 charges into the mix it becomes a game between the haves and have nots and makes the charges a must have item.

Sort of like heart of legion

its not a must have

I'm genuinely curious as to why you think so. When it comes to other charges to use, some of them may be better depending on the situation.

Wed 20 May 2020 9:33 AM by Cadebrennus

Lollie wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 9:06 AM
Symptomettes wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 8:24 PM
I think there is an in game vote atm about horses.

Lot of people were asking for it in many different post... And it would be super easy to remake charges at the right value, like it is supposed to be. I mean come on, the charge nerf was a pain in the ass for lot of classes to get his optimal damage / cast speed.

Optimization was always an important thing in daoc and you have mostly killed that with high rog and easy way to temp : Give a little love to player that want to be super efficient in rvr. You are working for balance and stuff : It will helps solo, small man and grp to perform even better and to get mostly the same stats...

i think the ket word there is "balance", at the moment everyone is pretty much on even par with regards to buffs, if you start throwing 75 charges into the mix it becomes a game between the haves and have nots and makes the charges a must have item.

The other thing is that 75 stat buff charges make buffing lines completely useless, and can result in specs and classes that are OP with those charges.

Disclaimer: I don't run high PF on my Ranger, but there are many who do and I wouldn't want to take the choice away from them. Secondly, it would make my Merc completely OP solo, and I don't agree with that either.

Wed 20 May 2020 9:47 AM by

gruenesschaf

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=95358#p95358

Wed 20 May 2020 9:55 AM by Centenario

I am gonna play devil's advocate and check why this would be not good:
- I made a ranger/hunter with high magic spec to get that 1.25x high delve buff, which now I can just remove those points. (75 buff is equivalent to 30 in Beast for hunter and 40 in path for ranger). These two classes can then drop these points and become both sniper and melee gods, while scout just doesnt get an advanced weapon line.
- Buffer classes become useless or can spec entirely differently. Mid will run 2-3 healers instead of 1 shaman, clerics will become even more useless and will be able to go full rejuv/smite, or they will all keep the buff specs but now just for the resists.
- Soloers will all hit the quickness cap.
- People will have to switch races.
- Nerf to friar
- Buff to all dps casters

Wed 20 May 2020 10:22 AM by Blitze

Please please, dont ever add the 75 charges.

Buffbotting was in my opinion the worst thing to ever come into DAoC (worse the ToA), albiet, they both impacted the game at around the same time. 75 charges are buffbotting in disguise.

I play a friar and the reduced buff potions here are already a significant nerf to selfbuffing classes. E.g. Friars specc enhance for absorb, resists, AF, and Dex/Qui. With buffpots and 75charges, the points they spend to get dex/qui and AF are wasted, which is half of that specc-line. Additionally, these classes are "balanced" with their buffs (e.g. friars have a lower WS table and dont get Dex as a rising stat).

Wed 20 May 2020 11:01 AM by Sepplord

Blitze wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 10:22 AM
Please please, dont ever add the 75 charges.

Buffbotting was in my opinion the worst thing to ever come into DAoC (worse the ToA), albiet, they both impacted the game at around the same time. 75 charges are buffbotting in disguise.

I play a friar and the reduced buff potions here are already a significant nerf to selfbuffing classes. E.g. Friars specc enhance for absorb, resists, AF, and Dex/Qui. With buffpots and 75charges, the points they spend to get dex/qui and AF are wasted, which is half of that specc-line. Additionally, these classes are "balanced" with their buffs (e.g. friars have a lower WS table and dont get Dex as a rising stat).

i agree in general, but the example feels off. Friar recieved tons of custom buffs here, so a different custom change that indirectly nerfs him shouldn't be a reason to complain about

Wed 20 May 2020 11:47 AM by Blitze

I’d argue that 75 charges directly nerfs friars,.. as your giving everyone access to two of friars core abilities...

Could go mad and steal other classes abilities and bring in speed6, stealth, 4sLT, end5, celerity, charges.

Wed 20 May 2020 2:16 PM by Azuell

Blitze wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 11:47 AM
I’d argue that 75 charges directly nerfs friars,.. as your giving everyone access to two of friars core abilities...

Could go mad and steal other classes abilities and bring in speed6, stealth, 4sLT, end5, celerity, charges.

You could run charges and lower your enhance spec to use those points elsewhere. But keeping higher enhance is more convenient and reduces your cost to RvR.

I played a friar on the live classic servers (Gareth/Lamo/???) where there were buff pots and charges and this was not an issue. I ran a str/con charge and didn't have to worry about anything else compared to my sorc which I had to juggle d/q, acuity, and AF which was annoying as hell.

The funny thing is this all started because people were complaining about juggling charges and were asking for a qol fix which ended up just being a nerf to charges. I like having charges but juggling multiple is annoying. I don't see an issue with making them 75 again and limiting it to one or two active at a time. But without the requirement that it must be equipped, I don't understand why that is necessary.

Wed 20 May 2020 2:40 PM by Blitze

Juggling charges is expensive, so it disproportionately benefits the rich hardcore players. Poorer players can choose to play self buffers and use their specc points instead of gold to get buffed. It follows that they have less specc points for their other lines.

... Also Just cos a Friar is possible to play with everyone buffed, it’s not fun... it was during that era (when friars fought fully buffed people always) that friars were awful and eventually got a huge buff of increased WS, 1.8 specc points, and heal/HoT/DD styles, also friars have their RR5 which is awesome.

I remember friars in 3 eras
1. OF - friars had dodger and at high RR a devastating reflex attack. no one was buffed. Friars were good at solo, small man,but not in 8v8
2. ToA&NF - friars fought buffbotted people without good artifacts, no dodger, crap WS, but a good RR5 and good reflex attack. Friars were very poor in all forms on the game
3. Friar buff patch (was this 1.82ish) - friars got 1.8 specc points, increased WS, heal/HoT/DD styles, healprocs... Friars became decent again, not often used in 8v8 though.

Phoenix has helped friars here as although we aren’t in The old era when no one buffbotted/charged we have a reduced Pot system. and as Recompense friars got some minor buffs (backsnare, healprocs) and some utility added to the rejuv line to help 8v8 worthiness and address the age old friar problem, (also weirdly the end3 pot effectively making paladins less groupable, helps friars (but Arms more)).

I guess what I am saying is: add charges if you want but Friars will need a buff on a huge scale, And be prepared for a pay2win style pot/charge juggling RvR scene.

Wed 20 May 2020 2:53 PM by inoeth

no just no.

Wed 20 May 2020 7:06 PM by gotwqqd

Get rid of all these /use items

Do we really need to segregate power gap with buff charges and health items

We have pots to make soloing or groups without buffers competitive

Enough with all the timed items....we have enough with all the ra’s

Fri 22 May 2020 5:12 AM by Jeterix

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 20 May 2020 7:04 AM
High Value charges turn the game into a waiting game to buff up, alternatively into an even more random-encounter-game that is decided on who is how far in their buffcycle

IF higher buffs should come back they should just buff the combined forces pot....but i am sure there are very good reasons against that regarding the buffclasses and groupsetups between realms

Its possible to have all buffs up all the time and never have to wait. Why do you think that you can't?

Usually acuity charges are accessible to everyone, all you need is an alchemist. But other charges like dex/qui are harder to get and drop from mobs like evern and the dragon and only a few people that got really lucky rolls have them. But here you can just buy them with phoenix feathers. So I can sort of see nerfing str/con and dex/qui charges since they are so widely accessible. But maybe it would help to un nerf acuity charges since any alchemist can make those anyway.