Realm Tasks encourage PvDoor and keep camping

People don't actually have to engage in RvR if its more worth to just take a keep, then sit within said keep for whatever nonsense has been implemented in "defense" of the keep picking off smallmans or solos who come within clip range of the keep.

I don't know what the limitations are of the realm task for taking keeps or how often you can get credit for one, but it seems to just discourage actually engaging in RvR with other people, and encourages dodging and or being heavily active when people sleep (yay hib zerg realm, boooooo mid underdog realm).

Fri 31 Aug 2018 10:31 PM by Neehi

Yet we've seen more rvr in the last 3 days than nearly the entire history of beta combined.

Oh, if a keep is camped, how is it PvDoor?

Fri 31 Aug 2018 11:13 PM by Niix

Neehi wrote: ↑
Fri 31 Aug 2018 10:31 PM
Yet we've seen more rvr in the last 3 days than nearly the entire history of beta combined.

Oh, if a keep is camped, how is it PvDoor?

He just means people are suiciiding on keep and then afking for the points.

Sat 1 Sep 2018 2:00 PM by grated

Falken wrote: ↑
Fri 31 Aug 2018 7:00 AM
People don't actually have to engage in RvR if its more worth to just take a keep, then sit within said keep for whatever nonsense has been implemented in "defense" of the keep picking off smallmans or solos who come within clip range of the keep.

I don't know what the limitations are of the realm task for taking keeps or how often you can get credit for one, but it seems to just discourage actually engaging in RvR with other people, and encourages dodging and or being heavily active when people sleep (yay hib zerg realm, boooooo mid underdog realm).

Have you played since the change?

Realm points for keep guarding are being adjusted and I've seen the base reward be 2-5k plus a portion of a pool for your involvement in kills. So far it's been great for getting the population into fights and moving between frontiers and keeps. And there's at least some RP in it for those who are struggling to get kills.

Your realm isn't always on defense, so squatting in a keep isn't a full time gig. It seems to round robin which realm defends.

I don't know where you got the idea it keeps people from disengaging in RvR, I think you're reaching for the pitchfork a wee early.

Sat 1 Sep 2018 2:35 PM by relvinian

Players will take whatever actions work.

They will exploit nearly any system.

I think pvp should be player lead rather than player reactive.

But if there is a message telling all players to go to a certain spot?

Some will exploit it, some will become victims.

Sat 1 Sep 2018 5:12 PM by relvinian

1. Very little visibility from these keeps. Can't target enemy from wall. Couldn't target friendly to rez.
2. Side door got me stuck. Some fell below keep and were stuck.
3. Very vulnerable system to farming and afking.
4. Pbaoe through door-- wiz sm verd pain necro etc. farming.

Sat 1 Sep 2018 11:41 PM by Falken

grated wrote: ↑
Sat 1 Sep 2018 2:00 PM
Falken wrote: ↑
Fri 31 Aug 2018 7:00 AM
People don't actually have to engage in RvR if its more worth to just take a keep, then sit within said keep for whatever nonsense has been implemented in "defense" of the keep picking off smallmans or solos who come within clip range of the keep.

I don't know what the limitations are of the realm task for taking keeps or how often you can get credit for one, but it seems to just discourage actually engaging in RvR with other people, and encourages dodging and or being heavily active when people sleep (yay hib zerg realm, boooooo mid underdog realm).

Have you played since the change?

Realm points for keep guarding are being adjusted and I've seen the base reward be 2-5k plus a portion of a pool for your involvement in kills. So far it's been great for getting the population into fights and moving between frontiers and keeps. And there's at least some RP in it for those who are struggling to get kills.

Your realm isn't always on defense, so squatting in a keep isn't a full time gig. It seems to round robin which realm defends.

I don't know where you got the idea it keeps people from disengaging in RvR, I think you're reaching for the pitchfork a wee early.

I have, have you? A defense keep task came up last night and I saw about 2 fgs just sitting at the keep waiting for RP ticks, and anytime a FG came by they just swarmed down the hill like ants. It was... exhilarating (not). Whether you like it or not the keep task system encourages afk beating on doors or afk sitting and waiting for defense tick, that is what the systems have always done. In Warhammer people would afk in keeps for 5 minutes or whatever the timer was after a successful defense to get that small RP tick or they would just afk in the keep from the beginning. This will just inflate numbers and reward inactivity.

I am all for encouraging RvR, but lets reward people for getting out and fighting, not just running to the nearest keep and sitting in it when a defense task comes up (or attack with a zerg).

Sun 2 Sep 2018 12:01 AM by Ganaka

Sometimes a leader isn't online, or someone that people want to follow, that is. These tasks give some focus and allow randoms a reason to group up without trying to form a perfect 8-man. Someone actually invited my gimp scout to a group! People aren't forced to achieve the objective.

Are the rewards too high?

Sun 2 Sep 2018 2:46 PM by relvinian

I created a 40 toon. The task was fight in portal keep areas.

I rushed out, found a 50 warden, who had just killed a 50 skald, and attacked.

He destroyed me. I died.

/release.

Few minutes later I went from 1l1 to 1l8 with 4k rps.

Sun 2 Sep 2018 3:50 PM by relvinian

I'm now playing a kobold skald named participation trophy with a shield and no weapon.

He is 40 bs and 27 parry

So far 0 death blows 6 deaths and rr 2.

Mon 3 Sep 2018 2:15 AM by Isavyr

The rewards could be better tied to activity so that people cannot gain RP for mostly AFK. However, such a system may require a lot of work--I think it's worth pursuing but maybe not yet. As it stands, task realm-point reward decreases with realmrank (RR), meanwhile players require MORE realmpoints at higher RRs to progress. Therefore, the system limits abuse pretty reasonably, and meanwhile is excellent at attracting a lot of action.

If we're just looking at the end-result, I'd say it far surpasses any other system we've seen in DAoC. So much that it makes me doubt your sincerity, Relv, when you state that this system should be scrapped because initiative should be player led.

One of my gripes is that the guards are so high level. It can seriously discourage RvR around task keeps with high level guards. It was expected in theory, it's being seen occur in actuality.

Mon 3 Sep 2018 9:52 AM by Druth

Whatever brings people to RvR zones, I do not care.

I do sometimes see some stand at portal keeps, but you dont get any rps from that, to my knowledge.
I see more action, of all varieties, all the time now. Will people get bored of it? Maybe, but no action bores people even faster I think.

My only wish, would be that a keep that has been targeted for capture/defence should slowly degrade, signaling the constant siege around it. The guards should drop lvl's over time and vanish, and gate get weakened somehow.
Why? Because some capture tasks are impossible when a dominant realm has the keep, and in this case they don't really need the guards to help

Mon 3 Sep 2018 10:30 AM by jelzinga_EU

relvinian wrote: ↑
Sun 2 Sep 2018 2:46 PM
I created a 40 toon. The task was fight in portal keep areas.

I rushed out, found a 50 warden, who had just killed a 50 skald, and attacked.

He destroyed me. I died.

/release.

Few minutes later I went from 1l1 to 1l8 with 4k rps.

I'm now playing a kobold skald named participation trophy with a shield and no weapon.

He is 40 bs and 27 parry

So far 0 death blows 6 deaths and rr 2.

To be honest, who cares ? This is only interesting at lower level and I honestly do not mind free RP's is given out at lower level, helps you XP.

The tasks do not matter much at RR5+ so the tasks might be OK to kickstart RvR - but I do not think they are staying relevant in the long run to matter.

Mon 3 Sep 2018 10:41 AM by relvinian

Maybe so.

I think they will always matter.

If you get an extra 20-30k per day tasking on top of ur rps, it will matter.

Tue 4 Sep 2018 9:08 AM by grated

Ganaka wrote: ↑
Sun 2 Sep 2018 12:01 AM
Sometimes a leader isn't online, or someone that people want to follow, that is. These tasks give some focus and allow randoms a reason to group up without trying to form a perfect 8-man. Someone actually invited my gimp scout to a group! People aren't forced to achieve the objective.

Are the rewards too high?

I've seen this too. There are more groups and those groups aren't looking for the cookie cutter 8 man, they are willing to invite other classes and even lowbies. Concerns about afk attacking doors and afk squatting in keeps aren't based in reality. It doesn't happen enough to be concerned. Keep defense is fun, the big fights are fun, and even if you spent 15 minutes defending and no one showed up you're at least given a small amount of RP for your time.

It's a good start, they will keep tweaking it. It seems to be working. Can't wait for relics to be in play and tasks around those.

Tue 4 Sep 2018 3:48 PM by poisonclover

Someone mentioned all the bugs at keeps, they will never be reported or fixed if people aren't forced to go to them. This is beta, people seem to forget that sometimes. The staff has pretty much pushed people to areas of the game where they need testing by way of rewards, some of you are missing the bigger picture here. They have refined tasks several times since implementation, and I'm sure will continue to do so.

So many things need to be tested in rvr. LoS issues around, near and at keeps continue to frustrate me as a cleric or scout. But I just report what I can with as much info as I can.

I hate reading about how much the 8 man and small man are getting screwed in a beta. Flat out Ridiculous.