[Q2 2020] Archery

Started 2 May 2020
by gruenesschaf
in Planned Changes
This change is part of a series of changes: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=99782

We will keep the old archery system, however, we will make a few adjustments. Archery changes / buffs have to be handled carefully as a noticable increase in archers and especially archer zergs would be a lot worse than having useless archery, therefore the behavior after these changes will be watched closely.

The damage modifier formula will be changed for non-volley archery shots only and no longer cap at min(spec - 1, enemy level + 1) aka no longer cap at 52 in pvp situations. This alone will make a noticable difference between 27 and 50 bow spec while at the same time increasing the bow damage for higher specs without touching the current 27 bow damage.
Penetrating shot 2 will allow 50% of the damage to go through against self casted bt.


And then for a potential change:
A new critical shot rank will be added at around 45 archery that will apply a certain effect to the target, candidates for this effect would be prevent flight, nearsight and disease.
Sat 2 May 2020 5:00 PM by Eldoktor
the new crit i'd say prevent flight would be fine.
Disease or NS would really be too strong i guess
Sat 2 May 2020 5:03 PM by Pogmothan
NS and or disease.... LOL EPIC....
Sat 2 May 2020 5:05 PM by cutbacks
Anything for hunters and beastcraft? I have 55 in beast and cant charm yellow/blue of that charm type..insect or animals.
Sat 2 May 2020 5:06 PM by Noashakra
Why not remove the unstealth mechanic on crit shot completely?
it wrecks you when it happens. The BT pierce is a good step forward. But damn the rest is underwhelming.
Sat 2 May 2020 5:07 PM by Tubby
Lol! Ns.... disease... these are spells that certain classes have to spec specifically for and sacrifice things to get there. Ridiculous. Welcome archer zergs lol
Sat 2 May 2020 5:08 PM by Kwall0311
What about the difference in Rapid 1 / Rapid 2, currently is nothing.
Sat 2 May 2020 5:09 PM by Cadebrennus
Kwall0311 wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 5:08 PM
What about the difference in Rapid 1 / Rapid 2, currently is nothing.

There's an endurance usage difference.
Sat 2 May 2020 5:10 PM by Pogmothan
Tubby wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 5:07 PM
Lol! Ns.... disease... these are spells that certain classes have to spec specifically for and sacrifice things to get there. Ridiculous. Welcome archer zergs lol

Couldn't agree more, archers will be everywhere adding on everything...
Sat 2 May 2020 5:11 PM by Cadebrennus
Prevent Flight as a random proc on a Crit shot or regular shot rather than a 100% guaranteed snare would be good and balanced.
Sat 2 May 2020 5:12 PM by Meiach
A new critical shot with a new ability sounds pretty fine for an archer.

Disease sounds like a very good option imo...
Sat 2 May 2020 5:16 PM by Cadebrennus
Pogmothan wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 5:10 PM
Tubby wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 5:07 PM
Lol! Ns.... disease... these are spells that certain classes have to spec specifically for and sacrifice things to get there. Ridiculous. Welcome archer zergs lol

Couldn't agree more, archers will be everywhere adding on everything...
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.

.
.
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Before you guys start freaking out keep in mind these are PROPOSED changes that they are proposing to the community to get feedback on. Yes, NS and Disease are over the top, but not worth freaking out over, since they more than likely won't make it in as a change.
Sat 2 May 2020 5:20 PM by Robo
Is there anyway we could see a change to Critical shot not un-stealthing archers 90% of the time? Almost solely defeats the purpose of having stealth, I have debated unspeccing it completely because most fights I don't get the jump either, along with the BT never breaking on casters on my first arrow. Damage is already low compared to anything else in the game, atleast have the benefit of stealthing on our side
Sat 2 May 2020 5:24 PM by Zouz
Oof, imagine playing scout in Necro grp 8man where crit shot can disease/ns.
Sat 2 May 2020 5:25 PM by Razur Ur
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 4:56 PM
And then for a potential change:
A new critical shot rank will be added at around 45 archery that will apply a certain effect to the target, candidates for this effect would be prevent flight, nearsight and disease.

Plz what? Disease rly? what is this for bullshit idea? have fun with many archers which you hitting only one or two time for fucking disease and running away lol.
Plz reduce then disease timer or give immunity timer but solo play do it no fun more if can every archer disease to distribute.

I ask me why get all range class love and the classic melee´s remains on the track.
Sat 2 May 2020 5:27 PM by Cadebrennus
Robo wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 5:20 PM
Is there anyway we could see a change to Critical shot not un-stealthing archers 90% of the time? Almost solely defeats the purpose of having stealth, I have debated unspeccing it completely because most fights I don't get the jump either, along with the BT never breaking on casters on my first arrow. Damage is already low compared to anything else in the game, atleast have the benefit of stealthing on our side

Try using terrain next time, or draw your shot when the enemy has their back to you. You would be amazed at the number of people who don't pan & scan.
Sat 2 May 2020 5:27 PM by Taniquetil
Prevent flight. Nice. Forces a fight, eg a caster has to turn and engage, so does a tank. Perhaps it should be a snare that provides some immunity, otherwise archers adding an 8v8 fight or other things would be even worse.

Disease, bad, too far away from class playstyle. Nullifies heal pots, kiting, speed etc somewhat unfairly and can be abused for kiting over a longer period of time, basically only encourages shitty playstyles in order to win. Very abusable.

Ns. Bad. Basically gimps casters vs them, many wouldnt even be able to cast back before dying if the range was right? and causes casters to ONLY run away vs archers. No effect vs tanks or other classes.

My thoughts. I dont play an archer, just trying to objectively consider balance and impact of changes.
Sat 2 May 2020 5:29 PM by Razur Ur
Zouz wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 5:24 PM
Oof, imagine playing scout in Necro grp 8man where crit shot can disease/ns.

yeah ranger get now op shild snare and crit shot with disease and nearsight :-D.
Sat 2 May 2020 5:35 PM by Cadebrennus
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 5:29 PM
Zouz wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 5:24 PM
Oof, imagine playing scout in Necro grp 8man where crit shot can disease/ns.

yeah ranger get now op shild snare and crit shot with disease and nearsight :-D.

Shield snare on a Ranger? Dude, that's a Scout. You should learn what to talk smack about before talking smack.
Sat 2 May 2020 5:41 PM by piero
Thb, the problem that archers get vs other assassins is not to be able to start the fight with their bow, they just come jumped in melee, everyone know that...
Archers should need any kind of spell to be able to see assassins before them and be able to open the fight with bow, for a fair fight.
Starting a fight vs archers just in melee is not so balanced
Sat 2 May 2020 5:51 PM by DarkDavion
piero wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 5:41 PM
Thb, the problem that archers get vs other assassins is not to be able to start the fight with their bow, they just come jumped in melee, everyone know that...
Archers should need any kind of spell to be able to see assassins before them and be able to open the fight with bow, for a fair fight.
Starting a fight vs archers just in melee is not so balanced
Working as intended, In no game (and not even in reality) must an archer be strong in a melee fight. They just have to make the specialization in archer viable, in my opinion it could remove the possibility of break the stealth during the critical shot. Adding an effect to critic seems too much, maybe just an effect to increase the damage or that goes through the bubble will be enough
Sat 2 May 2020 5:56 PM by Noashakra
You can also give more points to spec or fuse BC/PF with bow and give the scoot a D/Q buff

One of the problem on this serv is that before, you would open the fight and the enemy would have to RUN to you, and use his endurance to arrive in melee.

Here this advantage is destroyed byt the pots and LW/TL... You can't hit and run vs a tank... It was a big part of the archer gameplay.
Sat 2 May 2020 6:03 PM by Dialh
Prevent flight gets my vote. NS/D, nah dont need.
Sat 2 May 2020 6:05 PM by thirian24
Can you do something about the stealth zergs before you buff the them?
Sat 2 May 2020 6:08 PM by Riac
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 6:05 PM
Can you do something about the stealth zergs before you buff the them?

For real. These dudes aren't going to stop zerging because they got buffed. If anything, you're about to see a new influx of archers. Gj increasing the zerg.
Sat 2 May 2020 6:10 PM by piero
with the new proposal of archery change, speccing high bow will let be broken on a melee fight, expecially Vs assassins, so I continue to say, give something, with high archery spec that can detect hidden so archers can open with bow the fight
Sat 2 May 2020 6:10 PM by Nephamael
I created and played a solo scout (Jukiara)just for the sole purpose of testing how bad archery currently is. I appreciate the changes, disease and nearsight would imo be a bad idea, prevent flight a good idea but i am not sure if the primary problem of dps being so low with high archery spec (i tested 45 archery) is getting resolved).

A standard fight vs a melee without shieldspec would already last at least 1-2 slam immunity timers (you can make the math how often you get added before you kill your first target in that time window). A standard fight vs a shield user would last 5 mins+ and any class, even casters would be able to run away if they didnt WANT to fight you.

Imo composite 52+ archery needs at least 20% more dps.
Sat 2 May 2020 6:15 PM by gotwqqd
NS doesn’t make much sense to me.
Disease seems ok , particularly for how many points that will need to be devoted to archery line

I don’t recall what prevent flight is.
Slow? Root? Snare ?

Ok, it’s a proccing snare. So what would the price rate be?

If it’s only 10% I think it will not be specced for unless there is ancillary reason
Sat 2 May 2020 6:19 PM by Failwalker
How about archers of own realm can shot their own mates to demezz, heal them or stuff like that?????????????????????????????????????????????????????? !!! We want overwatch healsniper
Sat 2 May 2020 7:13 PM by easytoremember
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 4:56 PM
And then for a potential change:
A new critical shot rank will be added at around 45 archery that will apply a certain effect to the target, candidates for this effect would be prevent flight, nearsight and disease.
Make it a % chance to apply a bleed instead?
Put the upcoming bleed changes to use

Archer starts with range superiority so NS is over-the-top.
Disease is 15% unbreakable speed decrease- you'll be kited for 3:45.
Prevent Flight proccing would definitely send the victim running away instead of towards the archer
Sat 2 May 2020 7:49 PM by Prometheus
Adding disease, nearsight or prevent flight seems really powerful I think the last shot should at least make sense, just increase the damage of the last shot, you don't need to add any crazy effect.
Sat 2 May 2020 7:50 PM by Tanakeo
can keep the fancy effects to a minimum, dont need ns/dis/prevent flight, just needs dmg... shouldnt take a fully buffed archer 20+ seconds to shoot down an afk caster

would be nice with some increase detection radius (balanced ofc) i.e. standing still for 15 seconds activates an increased awareness or w/e, the custom mastery of stealth here makes it realy awkward, much rather spend 34 points and spot people from good distance
Sat 2 May 2020 8:11 PM by Fugitive
Scouts need self buffs
Sat 2 May 2020 8:13 PM by kosen
Dont give us disease/NS, thats too OP, but crittshot could do, that we Dind’t get unstealthed, and it would penetrate BT, everytime, like PA.. atleast at High lvl crittshot
Sat 2 May 2020 8:14 PM by Tanakeo
Fugitive wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 8:11 PM
Scouts need self buffs

why? they never had any...
Sat 2 May 2020 8:17 PM by paqdizzle
wow... more crap we're not asking for.. Just need our bow damage back, and make pen arrow WORK, not this 50% thing... Kinda annoying the devs are so scared of sneak zergs on this server.
Sat 2 May 2020 8:18 PM by paqdizzle
kosen wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 8:13 PM
Dont give us disease/NS, thats too OP, but crittshot could do, that we Dind’t get unstealthed, and it would penetrate BT, everytime, like PA.. atleast at High lvl crittshot

It takes 60 stealth to never break out of stealth with critshot..
Sat 2 May 2020 8:31 PM by Robo
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 5:27 PM
Robo wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 5:20 PM
Is there anyway we could see a change to Critical shot not un-stealthing archers 90% of the time? Almost solely defeats the purpose of having stealth, I have debated unspeccing it completely because most fights I don't get the jump either, along with the BT never breaking on casters on my first arrow. Damage is already low compared to anything else in the game, atleast have the benefit of stealthing on our side

Try using terrain next time, or draw your shot when the enemy has their back to you. You would be amazed at the number of people who don't pan & scan.

Yea no shit lol, but this still doesn't solve the problem, there are many situations where the only solo or duo's I find are no where near terrain, I cant move the terrain to me. Gotta engage on the very rare and few 1v1's or even 1v2's you get, so I'd like to atleast have an advantage seeing hunters are easily the worst class in classic daoc.
Sat 2 May 2020 8:34 PM by Robo
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 6:08 PM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 6:05 PM
Can you do something about the stealth zergs before you buff the them?

For real. These dudes aren't going to stop zerging because they got buffed. If anything, you're about to see a new influx of archers. Gj increasing the zerg.

I have played here for about 3 months now in RvR and I have not once seen a stealth zerg lol... Occasionally a FG of stealthers sitting at docks outside bled but that's it, 1 FG definitely isn't a zerg seeing 1 fg of stealthers cant even touch a FG of visi's...
Sat 2 May 2020 8:37 PM by Tanakeo
Robo wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 8:34 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 6:08 PM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 6:05 PM
Can you do something about the stealth zergs before you buff the them?

For real. These dudes aren't going to stop zerging because they got buffed. If anything, you're about to see a new influx of archers. Gj increasing the zerg.

I have played here for about 3 months now in RvR and I have not once seen a stealth zerg lol... Occasionally a FG of stealthers sitting at docks outside bled but that's it, 1 FG definitely isn't a zerg seeing 1 fg of stealthers cant even touch a FG of visi's...

sneaks are the most dramatic people youll find in this game... u get a solo sin run into a trio of stealthers he got 'zerged' down... =)
Sat 2 May 2020 8:46 PM by Razur Ur
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 5:35 PM
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 5:29 PM
Zouz wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 5:24 PM
Oof, imagine playing scout in Necro grp 8man where crit shot can disease/ns.

yeah ranger get now op shild snare and crit shot with disease and nearsight :-D.

Shield snare on a Ranger? Dude, that's a Scout. You should learn what to talk smack about before talking smack.

yeah sorry bro i mean scout ;-)
Sat 2 May 2020 8:47 PM by Riac
Tanakeo wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 8:37 PM
Robo wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 8:34 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 6:08 PM
For real. These dudes aren't going to stop zerging because they got buffed. If anything, you're about to see a new influx of archers. Gj increasing the zerg.

I have played here for about 3 months now in RvR and I have not once seen a stealth zerg lol... Occasionally a FG of stealthers sitting at docks outside bled but that's it, 1 FG definitely isn't a zerg seeing 1 fg of stealthers cant even touch a FG of visi's...

sneaks are the most dramatic people youll find in this game... u get a solo sin run into a trio of stealthers he got 'zerged' down... =)
A group of stealthers is colloquially known as a stealth zerg. Anyone who has time on dac knows what it means.
And it's pretty much always the same ppl.
Sat 2 May 2020 8:48 PM by piero
would be nice with some increase detection radius (balanced ofc) i.e. standing still for 15 seconds activates an increased awareness or w/e, the custom mastery of stealth here makes it realy awkward, much rather spend 34 points and spot people from good distance

That's what I mean
Sat 2 May 2020 8:49 PM by paqdizzle
Robo wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 8:34 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 6:08 PM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 6:05 PM
Can you do something about the stealth zergs before you buff the them?

For real. These dudes aren't going to stop zerging because they got buffed. If anything, you're about to see a new influx of archers. Gj increasing the zerg.

I have played here for about 3 months now in RvR and I have not once seen a stealth zerg lol... Occasionally a FG of stealthers sitting at docks outside bled but that's it, 1 FG definitely isn't a zerg seeing 1 fg of stealthers cant even touch a FG of visi's...

That's because there aren't any lool... Either way, think about it.... They let fully synergized 8mans zerg down solos all day.. Let's keep that in but try NOT to let sneaks "Zerg"... I don't get it, the sneak zergs is just another form to fight back against this stupid meta that's set in place on phoenix. It's bad enough with the zergs as is, adding another form of zergs to fight back shouldn't be an issue..

And is this archery change going to be for all 3 realms instead of just fixing scouts!?!?!?!?! lmfao.. It's like whoever is testing to push this to their server isn't playing on phoenix to know what really needs to happen.
Sat 2 May 2020 8:50 PM by paqdizzle
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 8:47 PM
Tanakeo wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 8:37 PM
Robo wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 8:34 PM
I have played here for about 3 months now in RvR and I have not once seen a stealth zerg lol... Occasionally a FG of stealthers sitting at docks outside bled but that's it, 1 FG definitely isn't a zerg seeing 1 fg of stealthers cant even touch a FG of visi's...

sneaks are the most dramatic people youll find in this game... u get a solo sin run into a trio of stealthers he got 'zerged' down... =)
A group of stealthers is colloquially known as a stealth zerg. Anyone who has time on dac knows what it means.
And it's pretty much always the same ppl.

no... no it's not... That's known as a GROUP... ffs How are you even on the forums after harassing me in my threads 4 times? mods just don't care if you're a fucking prick or not to people? You're the most toxic person here.
Sat 2 May 2020 8:52 PM by Riac
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 8:49 PM
Robo wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 8:34 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 6:08 PM
For real. These dudes aren't going to stop zerging because they got buffed. If anything, you're about to see a new influx of archers. Gj increasing the zerg.

I have played here for about 3 months now in RvR and I have not once seen a stealth zerg lol... Occasionally a FG of stealthers sitting at docks outside bled but that's it, 1 FG definitely isn't a zerg seeing 1 fg of stealthers cant even touch a FG of visi's...

That's because there aren't any lool... Either way, think about it.... They let fully synergized 8mans zerg down solos all day.. Let's keep that in but try NOT to let sneaks "Zerg"... I don't get it, the sneak zergs is just another form to fight back against this stupid meta that's set in place on phoenix. It's bad enough with the zergs as is, adding another form of zergs to fight back shouldn't be an issue..

And is this archery change going to be for all 3 realms instead of just fixing scouts!?!?!?!?! lmfao.. It's like whoever is testing to push this to their server isn't playing on phoenix to know what really needs to happen.
This is one of those stealth zergers
Sat 2 May 2020 8:53 PM by Riac
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 8:50 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 8:47 PM
Tanakeo wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 8:37 PM
sneaks are the most dramatic people youll find in this game... u get a solo sin run into a trio of stealthers he got 'zerged' down... =)
A group of stealthers is colloquially known as a stealth zerg. Anyone who has time on dac knows what it means.
And it's pretty much always the same ppl.

no... no it's not... That's known as a GROUP... ffs How are you even on the forums after harassing me in my threads 4 times? mods just don't care if you're a fucking prick or not to people? You're the most toxic person here.
Still not familiar with the definition on colloquial I see.
Watch out, you might get a board warning with all those naughty words.
Sat 2 May 2020 8:57 PM by Astaa
10% less stealth per stealther in group would fix stealth zergs. Job, jobbed. They keep saying they are looking for equal fights so its the perfect solution. Still stealthed on the horizon so don't need to worry about being jumped.
Sat 2 May 2020 9:01 PM by Thorgeirn
Was it just me or is everyone missing the point? Crit shot could proc disease or NS but they mentioned only at very high archery. That is a huge investment that takes points away from other useful things.

It doesn't have to be red disease that lasts for 2 minutes like assassins get, but maybe blue disease that lasts for 15 to 20 seconds? And then just make it impossible to get disease again while in the same fight from archers.

If it comes from crit shot at 45 archery anyway, then it wouldn't be too crazy imo.
Sat 2 May 2020 9:16 PM by paqdizzle
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 8:53 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 8:50 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 8:47 PM
A group of stealthers is colloquially known as a stealth zerg. Anyone who has time on dac knows what it means.
And it's pretty much always the same ppl.

no... no it's not... That's known as a GROUP... ffs How are you even on the forums after harassing me in my threads 4 times? mods just don't care if you're a fucking prick or not to people? You're the most toxic person here.
Still not familiar with the definition on colloquial I see.
Watch out, you might get a board warning with all those naughty words.

Okay Riac... learn something: If your logic is correct, with-- the devs want NO STEALTH ZERGS to run RvR, Then by your definition, there are 8man zergs of visies alreaddy zerging in RvR..... Think about it. FFS you're toxic.
Sat 2 May 2020 9:27 PM by Riac
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:16 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 8:53 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 8:50 PM
no... no it's not... That's known as a GROUP... ffs How are you even on the forums after harassing me in my threads 4 times? mods just don't care if you're a fucking prick or not to people? You're the most toxic person here.
Still not familiar with the definition on colloquial I see.
Watch out, you might get a board warning with all those naughty words.

Okay Riac... learn something: If your logic is correct, with-- the devs want NO STEALTH ZERGS to run RvR, Then by your definition, there are 8man zergs of visies alreaddy zerging in RvR..... Think about it. FFS you're toxic.
I mean, I guess. However, they don't sit invisible at docks and kill solos. You can atleast see them coming.
But a single 8 man isn't generally referred to as a zerg, unless they join up.
Stealth zerg has a slightly different idea associated with it.You've already had this explained to you in the sl thread.
It means the same thing to the vast majority of the dac playerbase. The only ppl who disagree are the stealth zergers. They want to believe they aren't lame noobs, but they are, and you are lol.
I may be toxic on the forums but yout play in the game is toxic.
Sat 2 May 2020 9:38 PM by paqdizzle
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:27 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:16 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 8:53 PM
Still not familiar with the definition on colloquial I see.
Watch out, you might get a board warning with all those naughty words.

Okay Riac... learn something: If your logic is correct, with-- the devs want NO STEALTH ZERGS to run RvR, Then by your definition, there are 8man zergs of visies alreaddy zerging in RvR..... Think about it. FFS you're toxic.
I mean, I guess. However, they don't sit invisible at docks and kill solos. You can atleast see them coming.
But a single 8 man isn't generally referred to as a zerg, unless they join up.
Stealth zerg has a slightly different idea associated with it.You've already had this explained to you in the sl thread.
It means the same thing to the vast majority of the dac playerbase. The only ppl who disagree are the stealth zergers. They want to believe they aren't lame noobs, but they are, and you are lol.
I may be toxic on the forums but yout play in the game is toxic.

They farm docks, they farm bridges, they farm exp spots, they farm Mile gates... They are the real zergs that disturb game-play the way you think sneaks do.
if you have that much of a problem with sneaks why do you play a SB? I've been ganked on my Warrior solo, more then I do on my scout. you guessed it, By getting zergged down by a FG visie group with, you guessed it, speed.... What's honestly worse? a zerg of sneaks that CANNOT BE SYNERGIZED... or what's currently destroying RvR?

You make 0 sense. The only time I ever ganked expers on my scout, I came back and let the group I killed, kill me(they all dinged) not all sneaks are douche bags like you think. And you come in here on the forums ans spew nonsense that has nothing to do with the real issue... and with your logic, stealth zergs are ruining the game, and that you're happy they get 8manned down.... Hypocritical as all hell... There are already zergs smashing the way you think sneaks do when they group up, except sneaks HAVE NO SYNERGY... FG of visies tend to run everything from speed to CC to heals/peels... If you think that's better than 4 sneaks doing the same thing, ZOMBG LeArN To PlAy... You're toxic. you make 0 sense... you're rude, and you spread lies about mostly everything you comment on because of your own bias opinion on what you THINK goes down.
Sat 2 May 2020 9:44 PM by Riac
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:38 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:27 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:16 PM
Okay Riac... learn something: If your logic is correct, with-- the devs want NO STEALTH ZERGS to run RvR, Then by your definition, there are 8man zergs of visies alreaddy zerging in RvR..... Think about it. FFS you're toxic.
I mean, I guess. However, they don't sit invisible at docks and kill solos. You can atleast see them coming.
But a single 8 man isn't generally referred to as a zerg, unless they join up.
Stealth zerg has a slightly different idea associated with it.You've already had this explained to you in the sl thread.
It means the same thing to the vast majority of the dac playerbase. The only ppl who disagree are the stealth zergers. They want to believe they aren't lame noobs, but they are, and you are lol.
I may be toxic on the forums but yout play in the game is toxic.

They farm docks, they farm bridges, they farm exp spots, they farm Mile gates... They are the real zergs that disturb game-play the way you think sneaks do.
if you have that much of a problem with sneaks why do you play a SB? I've been ganked on my Warrior solo, more then I do on my scout. you guessed it, By getting zergged down by a FG visie group with, you guessed it, speed.... What's honestly worse? a zerg of sneaks that CANNOT BE SYNERGIZED... or what's currently destroying RvR?

You make 0 sense. The only time I ever ganked expers on my scout, I came back and let the group I killed, kill me(they all dinged) not all sneaks are douche bags like you think. And you come in here on the forums ans spew nonsense that has nothing to do with the real issue... and with your logic, stealth zergs are ruining the game, and that you're happy they get 8manned down.... Hypocritical as all hell... There are already zergs smashing the way you think sneaks do when they group up, except sneaks HAVE NO SYNERGY... FG of visies tend to run everything from speed to CC to heals/peels... If you think that's better than 4 sneaks doing the same thing, ZOMBG LeArN To PlAy... You're toxic. you make 0 sense... you're rude, and you spread lies about mostly everything you comment on because of your own bias opinion on what you THINK goes down.
first of all i have no problems with sneaks. i actually really like them and would like for more ppl to play them. they are my target opponents, id much rather fight other sneaks all day long instead of visis. i dont like stealth zergers like you, and archers adding on everything in sight.
the 8 mans that run everything down and then qq about ppl adding on their 8v8 is also hypocritical, but i absolutely love they give you and your group. whats the line? you get what you fucking deserve! lol
bruh, all this dumb shit about synergized groups is bullshit. yall are not fighting other groups. yall are waiting to kill weak and vulnerable ppl at the dock from stealth.
what lies am i spreading? and pls dont say its about you adding and running with a stealth zerg because that is exactly what you do.
https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Paquette for all the ppl that might be inclined to believe this noob, heres his profile. check out those numbers. this is exactly what a stealth zerger looks like.
Sat 2 May 2020 9:53 PM by paqdizzle
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 4:56 PM
This change is part of a series of changes: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=99782

We will keep the old archery system, however, we will make a few adjustments. Archery changes / buffs have to be handled carefully as a noticable increase in archers and especially archer zergs would be a lot worse than having useless archery, therefore the behavior after these changes will be watched closely.

The damage modifier formula will be changed for non-volley archery shots only and no longer cap at min(spec - 1, enemy level + 1) aka no longer cap at 52 in pvp situations. This alone will make a noticable difference between 27 and 50 bow spec while at the same time increasing the bow damage for higher specs without touching the current 27 bow damage.
Penetrating shot 2 will allow 50% of the damage to go through against self casted bt.


And then for a potential change:
A new critical shot rank will be added at around 45 archery that will apply a certain effect to the target, candidates for this effect would be prevent flight, nearsight and disease.

So about Penetrating arrow.... So who in their right mind would waste a critshot knowing the damage will be half of normal critshot when you can just do a stadard shot and break the bubble, THEN critshot for full damage? (and yes, this works to targets in combat I did it all the time on my scout)

Option A is: Critshot said caster, Now he knows he took damage and lost his bubble, leaving time to mitigate his resources. Now you cannot critshot that target for 10 seconds, yay... in-turn, that target has another BT up...

Option B: Just standard shot him, sometimes they don't realize their BT was broken which leaves more time to get a critshot for full damage....

Pen arrow still seems gimp... why isn't it like it used to be and break the bubble and do full damage? Penetrating arrow should mean just that... penetrating... Not *almost penetrating arrow*.. or slightly penetrated arrow..
Sat 2 May 2020 9:53 PM by Noashakra
zerg = killing people with numbers

70 people vs 8 = zerg

6/7/8 people killing solos = zerg
Sat 2 May 2020 9:55 PM by paqdizzle
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:44 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:38 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:27 PM
I mean, I guess. However, they don't sit invisible at docks and kill solos. You can atleast see them coming.
But a single 8 man isn't generally referred to as a zerg, unless they join up.
Stealth zerg has a slightly different idea associated with it.You've already had this explained to you in the sl thread.
It means the same thing to the vast majority of the dac playerbase. The only ppl who disagree are the stealth zergers. They want to believe they aren't lame noobs, but they are, and you are lol.
I may be toxic on the forums but yout play in the game is toxic.

They farm docks, they farm bridges, they farm exp spots, they farm Mile gates... They are the real zergs that disturb game-play the way you think sneaks do.
if you have that much of a problem with sneaks why do you play a SB? I've been ganked on my Warrior solo, more then I do on my scout. you guessed it, By getting zergged down by a FG visie group with, you guessed it, speed.... What's honestly worse? a zerg of sneaks that CANNOT BE SYNERGIZED... or what's currently destroying RvR?

You make 0 sense. The only time I ever ganked expers on my scout, I came back and let the group I killed, kill me(they all dinged) not all sneaks are douche bags like you think. And you come in here on the forums ans spew nonsense that has nothing to do with the real issue... and with your logic, stealth zergs are ruining the game, and that you're happy they get 8manned down.... Hypocritical as all hell... There are already zergs smashing the way you think sneaks do when they group up, except sneaks HAVE NO SYNERGY... FG of visies tend to run everything from speed to CC to heals/peels... If you think that's better than 4 sneaks doing the same thing, ZOMBG LeArN To PlAy... You're toxic. you make 0 sense... you're rude, and you spread lies about mostly everything you comment on because of your own bias opinion on what you THINK goes down.
first of all i have no problems with sneaks. i actually really like them and would like for more ppl to play them. they are my target opponents, id much rather fight other sneaks all day long instead of visis. i dont like stealth zergers like you, and archers adding on everything in sight.
the 8 mans that run everything down and then qq about ppl adding on their 8v8 is also hypocritical, but i absolutely love they give you and your group. whats the line? you get what you fucking deserve! lol
bruh, all this dumb shit about synergized groups is bullshit. yall are not fighting other groups. yall are waiting to kill weak and vulnerable ppl at the dock from stealth.
what lies am i spreading? and pls dont say its about you adding and running with a stealth zerg because that is exactly what you do.
https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Paquette for all the ppl that might be inclined to believe this noob, heres his profile. check out those numbers. this is exactly what a stealth zerger looks like.

You're a noob... you literally contradicted yourself.
I run in a group of 3 most of the time, if not I'm in a duo.. I forget to you that zerging.
Just re-read what you posted about sneaks on the SL thread... you're so clueless it's not even funny. I almost feel bad for your mental health.
Sat 2 May 2020 9:56 PM by Riac
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:55 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:44 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:38 PM
They farm docks, they farm bridges, they farm exp spots, they farm Mile gates... They are the real zergs that disturb game-play the way you think sneaks do.
if you have that much of a problem with sneaks why do you play a SB? I've been ganked on my Warrior solo, more then I do on my scout. you guessed it, By getting zergged down by a FG visie group with, you guessed it, speed.... What's honestly worse? a zerg of sneaks that CANNOT BE SYNERGIZED... or what's currently destroying RvR?

You make 0 sense. The only time I ever ganked expers on my scout, I came back and let the group I killed, kill me(they all dinged) not all sneaks are douche bags like you think. And you come in here on the forums ans spew nonsense that has nothing to do with the real issue... and with your logic, stealth zergs are ruining the game, and that you're happy they get 8manned down.... Hypocritical as all hell... There are already zergs smashing the way you think sneaks do when they group up, except sneaks HAVE NO SYNERGY... FG of visies tend to run everything from speed to CC to heals/peels... If you think that's better than 4 sneaks doing the same thing, ZOMBG LeArN To PlAy... You're toxic. you make 0 sense... you're rude, and you spread lies about mostly everything you comment on because of your own bias opinion on what you THINK goes down.
first of all i have no problems with sneaks. i actually really like them and would like for more ppl to play them. they are my target opponents, id much rather fight other sneaks all day long instead of visis. i dont like stealth zergers like you, and archers adding on everything in sight.
the 8 mans that run everything down and then qq about ppl adding on their 8v8 is also hypocritical, but i absolutely love they give you and your group. whats the line? you get what you fucking deserve! lol
bruh, all this dumb shit about synergized groups is bullshit. yall are not fighting other groups. yall are waiting to kill weak and vulnerable ppl at the dock from stealth.
what lies am i spreading? and pls dont say its about you adding and running with a stealth zerg because that is exactly what you do.
https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Paquette for all the ppl that might be inclined to believe this noob, heres his profile. check out those numbers. this is exactly what a stealth zerger looks like.

You're a noob... you literally contradicted yourself.
I run in a group of 3 most of the time, if not I'm in a duo.. I forget to you that zerging.
Just re-read what you posted about sneaks on the SL thread... you're so clueless it's not even funny. I almost feel bad for your mental health.
pls bold and underline the part where i contradict myself.
id also like to hear about the lies that im spreading.
Sat 2 May 2020 9:58 PM by Parole
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 6:08 PM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 6:05 PM
Can you do something about the stealth zergs before you buff the them?

For real. These dudes aren't going to stop zerging because they got buffed. If anything, you're about to see a new influx of archers. Gj increasing the zerg.

HAHAHA!!!! See you out there buddy. Can't wait to use those stealth pots now.
Sat 2 May 2020 9:58 PM by paqdizzle
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:53 PM
zerg = killing people with numbers

70 people vs 8 = zerg

6/7/8 people killing solos = zerg

That's Zerging. Doesn't mean you're a zerg. in general- you'd have to have consistent numbers to outnumber most if not ALL groups/group sizes
Otherwise you'd have to call that 3 man vs a solo a zerg even when that 3 man fights another 3 man. ZERG VS ZERG!?!?! lol tf
Sat 2 May 2020 10:00 PM by Noashakra
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:58 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:53 PM
zerg = killing people with numbers

70 people vs 8 = zerg

6/7/8 people killing solos = zerg

That's Zerging. Doesn't mean you're a zerg. in general- you'd have to have consistent numbers to outnumber most if not ALL groups/group sizes
Otherwise you'd have to call that 3 man vs a solo a zerg even when that 3 man fights another 3 man. ZERG VS ZERG!?!?! lol tf
Sat 2 May 2020 10:00 PM by paqdizzle
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:56 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:55 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:44 PM
first of all i have no problems with sneaks. i actually really like them and would like for more ppl to play them. they are my target opponents, id much rather fight other sneaks all day long instead of visis. i dont like stealth zergers like you, and archers adding on everything in sight.
the 8 mans that run everything down and then qq about ppl adding on their 8v8 is also hypocritical, but i absolutely love they give you and your group. whats the line? you get what you fucking deserve! lol
bruh, all this dumb shit about synergized groups is bullshit. yall are not fighting other groups. yall are waiting to kill weak and vulnerable ppl at the dock from stealth.
what lies am i spreading? and pls dont say its about you adding and running with a stealth zerg because that is exactly what you do.
https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Paquette for all the ppl that might be inclined to believe this noob, heres his profile. check out those numbers. this is exactly what a stealth zerger looks like.

You're a noob... you literally contradicted yourself.
I run in a group of 3 most of the time, if not I'm in a duo.. I forget to you that zerging.
Just re-read what you posted about sneaks on the SL thread... you're so clueless it's not even funny. I almost feel bad for your mental health.
pls bold and underline the part where i contradict myself.
id also like to hear about the lies that im spreading.

You don't remember what you said? would you like me to scratch your ass for you too? I can bring my zerg so we can get both cheeks at once...
Sat 2 May 2020 10:03 PM by Riac
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:00 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:58 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:53 PM
zerg = killing people with numbers

70 people vs 8 = zerg

6/7/8 people killing solos = zerg

That's Zerging. Doesn't mean you're a zerg. in general- you'd have to have consistent numbers to outnumber most if not ALL groups/group sizes
Otherwise you'd have to call that 3 man vs a solo a zerg even when that 3 man fights another 3 man. ZERG VS ZERG!?!?! lol tf

This dude about to get that gold medal in mental gymnastics lol.
Parole in the thread now. Another great stealth zergers. Big names showing up today.
Sat 2 May 2020 10:05 PM by paqdizzle
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:03 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:00 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:58 PM
That's Zerging. Doesn't mean you're a zerg. in general- you'd have to have consistent numbers to outnumber most if not ALL groups/group sizes
Otherwise you'd have to call that 3 man vs a solo a zerg even when that 3 man fights another 3 man. ZERG VS ZERG!?!?! lol tf

This dude about to get that gold medal in mental gymnastics lol.
Parole in the thread now. Another great stealth zergers. Big names showing up today.

Is your angle to piss me off so much that I resort to stooping to your level of ignorance to where we both get in trouble? or are you just getting away with being toxic?
It's common sense... if you lack that, I dunno what to say... even with your own logic used against you LOL.... I can't win vs this fucking guy.. He's just always right.... I get solo kills at all, still means I'm a noob who ganks solo/expers, I go out and get in 3v3 fights with dwarf party and ect. I am still zerging.... I go out and solo 3 of the top RR sneaks on the server(pretty much) and STILL I'm abusing something or suck, or I'm a PoS scout.. or that I should "Go play a real class".... you know, you're just too amazing! so perfect! Never wrong!

Zerging doesn't mean you're technically IN A ZERG... otherwise you would collectively be a Zerg vs most other groups. which means you're a zerg... 3 people is NOT A ZERG, but still capable of "Zerging" if they fight a solo... Otherwise by your logic you'd HAVE to call that same 3 man a zerg when they die by another 3 man. It really isn't that hard..
Sat 2 May 2020 10:06 PM by Riac
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:00 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:56 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:55 PM
You're a noob... you literally contradicted yourself.
I run in a group of 3 most of the time, if not I'm in a duo.. I forget to you that zerging.
Just re-read what you posted about sneaks on the SL thread... you're so clueless it's not even funny. I almost feel bad for your mental health.
pls bold and underline the part where i contradict myself.
id also like to hear about the lies that im spreading.
You don't remember what you said? would you like me to scratch your ass for you too? I can bring my zerg so we can get both cheeks at once...
considering youre referencing a thread with a shitload of pages, im going to need a bit of a clue as to what you are referring to.
are you really this dense? like, holy shit lmao.
Sat 2 May 2020 10:06 PM by Riac
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:05 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:03 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:00 PM

This dude about to get that gold medal in mental gymnastics lol.
Parole in the thread now. Another great stealth zergers. Big names showing up today.

Is your angle to piss me off so much that I resort to stooping to your level of ignorance to where we both get in trouble? or are you just getting away with being toxic?
i didnt make you say that dumb shit that caused you to look like an idiot in front of everyone lmao.
Sat 2 May 2020 10:07 PM by Ashenspire
Disease is already a bloated status affect and you want to add more of them to the game?

Just fix their spec line so it's worth going above 27/35 for damage and see where they fall. Then readdress as necessary. Archers don't need more kiting power.
Sat 2 May 2020 10:10 PM by paqdizzle
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:06 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:05 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:03 PM
This dude about to get that gold medal in mental gymnastics lol.
Parole in the thread now. Another great stealth zergers. Big names showing up today.

Is your angle to piss me off so much that I resort to stooping to your level of ignorance to where we both get in trouble? or are you just getting away with being toxic?
i didnt make you say that dumb shit that caused you to look like an idiot in front of everyone lmao.

right? you pulled my pants down in front of class huh? tf are you like 12?
Sat 2 May 2020 10:12 PM by Parole
Riac is just a troll. A group does not make a zerg. He loses on forums just like he loses in game.

Feed me rps Riac. You are my bish. I own you.

Now be a good little boy and reply. Do what your told.
Sat 2 May 2020 10:14 PM by Riac
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:10 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:06 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:05 PM
Is your angle to piss me off so much that I resort to stooping to your level of ignorance to where we both get in trouble? or are you just getting away with being toxic?
i didnt make you say that dumb shit that caused you to look like an idiot in front of everyone lmao.

right? you pulled my pants down in front of class huh? tf are you like 12?
Lol what are you talking about?
Sat 2 May 2020 10:14 PM by easytoremember
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:00 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:58 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:53 PM
zerg = killing people with numbers

70 people vs 8 = zerg

6/7/8 people killing solos = zerg

That's Zerging. Doesn't mean you're a zerg. in general- you'd have to have consistent numbers to outnumber most if not ALL groups/group sizes
Otherwise you'd have to call that 3 man vs a solo a zerg even when that 3 man fights another 3 man. ZERG VS ZERG!?!?! lol tf

Doing [verb] doesn't make you [noun]


Noashakra wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:53 PM
6/7/8 people killing solos = zerg
6/7/8 is a fg regardless of what they're doing
Sat 2 May 2020 10:17 PM by Riac
Parole wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:12 PM
Riac is just a troll. A group does not make a zerg. He loses on forums just like he loses in game.

Feed me rps Riac. You are my bish. I own you.

Now be a good little boy and reply. Do what your told.
Keep on stealth zerging parole. Can't wait for the 1v1 zone.
How are you two going to kill anything if they don't allow teaming? I guess there's always adding.
Sat 2 May 2020 10:19 PM by Noashakra
https://www.techopedia.com/definition/27053/zerg
Zerg is a slang term for a group of low-level gamers who depend on overwhelming numbers to achieve victory, rather than relying on technique or strategy.
Sat 2 May 2020 10:20 PM by Riac
easytoremember wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:14 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:00 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:58 PM
That's Zerging. Doesn't mean you're a zerg. in general- you'd have to have consistent numbers to outnumber most if not ALL groups/group sizes
Otherwise you'd have to call that 3 man vs a solo a zerg even when that 3 man fights another 3 man. ZERG VS ZERG!?!?! lol tf

Doing [verb] doesn't make you [noun]


Noashakra wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:53 PM
6/7/8 people killing solos = zerg
6/7/8 is a fg regardless of what they're doing
Well since you'd like to be all technical 6 or 7 is not a fg.
Sat 2 May 2020 10:27 PM by thirian24
Busta idk why you argue or reply to any of these dudes. I do enjoy watching them flail around though.
Sat 2 May 2020 10:29 PM by Riac
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:27 PM
Busta idk why you argue or reply to any of these dudes. I do enjoy watching them flail around though.
I enjoy it. I'm down to the bottom of the barrel on terms of netflix shows, gotta so something to spice it up.
Sat 2 May 2020 10:31 PM by paqdizzle
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:20 PM
easytoremember wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:14 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:00 PM

Doing [verb] doesn't make you [noun]


Noashakra wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 9:53 PM
6/7/8 people killing solos = zerg
6/7/8 is a fg regardless of what they're doing
Well since you'd like to be all technical 6 or 7 is not a fg.

6 people can make up a full synergy regardless. so long as they aren't sneaks...
Sat 2 May 2020 10:32 PM by Riac
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:31 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:20 PM
easytoremember wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:14 PM
Doing [verb] doesn't make you [noun]



6/7/8 is a fg regardless of what they're doing
Well since you'd like to be all technical 6 or 7 is not a fg.

6 people can make up a full synergy regardless. so long as they aren't sneaks...
A full synergy rofl. What does that even mean? Is a bard bm a full synergy? You have all the tools you need.
Sat 2 May 2020 10:34 PM by paqdizzle
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:32 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:31 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:20 PM
Well since you'd like to be all technical 6 or 7 is not a fg.

6 people can make up a full synergy regardless. so long as they aren't sneaks...
A full synergy rofl. What does that even mean? Is a bard bm a full synergy? You have all the tools you need.

CCs, Peels, Debufs, Nukes/dps... only really need 4 to get a full synergy.
Sat 2 May 2020 10:35 PM by Parole
On this servers a 2v1, 3v1, 3v2, 4v2, 4v3 etc... is called a zerg by all these solo l33t stealthers. They think all stealthers should solo. period, end of story. They believe standing on a bridge killing low rr all day is totally ok and it grows their e-peen.

I am just their wake up call.

If I am alone and I see you in a 1v1 fight I will not add you.
If I see you when I am alone I will happily fight you 1v1.
If I see you when I am with my group you are likely going to die - I am not going to even attempt to restrain my group from killing you (very few exceptions to this rule).


If you can't handle that go play on your Xbox, ask your mommy for a tissue, drink your monster energy drink and get over it. I don't care if you are a visi or a sneak. If you are a realm enemy and you die I will take your rps and I will smile about it.
Sat 2 May 2020 10:39 PM by paqdizzle
Parole wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:35 PM
On this servers a 2v1, 3v1, 3v2, 4v2, 4v3 etc... is called a zerg by all these solo l33t stealthers. They think all stealthers should solo. period, end of story. They believe standing on a bridge killing low rr all day is totally ok and it grows their e-peen.

I am just their wake up call.

If I am alone and I see you in a 1v1 fight I will not add you.
If I see you when I am alone I will happily fight you 1v1.
If I see you when I am with my group you are likely going to die - I am not going to even attempt to restrain my group from killing you (very few exceptions to this rule).


If you can't handle that go play on your Xbox, ask your mommy for a tissue, drink your monster energy drink and get over it. I don't care if you are a visi or a sneak. If you are a realm enemy and you die I will take your rps and I will smile about it.

And this is exactly what I do unless I don't like you, only person I gank that way is theboogeyman lol... Everything else is what I do on my scout, except we look for 3mans or duos generally because we're usually 2 or 3 most of the time. But I'm a liar, I only gank, I only farm expers, I only camp docks.... Wait a minute, that's what visies do with FGs lol it's almost as if I'm supposed to stay solo and wait on a bridge to duel to be considered "okay"... even when I do that and post screenshots, there is something underlining it to where I don't get credit even as my "PoS scout" cause I need to "play a real class"...
Sat 2 May 2020 10:40 PM by Riac
Parole wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:35 PM
On this servers a 2v1, 3v1, 3v2, 4v2, 4v3 etc... is called a zerg by all these solo l33t stealthers. They think all stealthers should solo. period, end of story. They believe standing on a bridge killing low rr all day is totally ok and it grows their e-peen.

I am just their wake up call.

If I am alone and I see you in a 1v1 fight I will not add you.
If I see you when I am alone I will happily fight you 1v1.
If I see you when I am with my group you are likely going to die - I am not going to even attempt to restrain my group from killing you (very few exceptions to this rule).


If you can't handle that go play on your Xbox, ask your mommy for a tissue, drink your monster energy drink and get over it. I don't care if you are a visi or a sneak. If you are a realm enemy and you die I will take your rps and I will smile about it.
why bother talking about situations that will never come up?
Sat 2 May 2020 10:41 PM by Noashakra
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:40 PM
Parole wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:35 PM
On this servers a 2v1, 3v1, 3v2, 4v2, 4v3 etc... is called a zerg by all these solo l33t stealthers. They think all stealthers should solo. period, end of story. They believe standing on a bridge killing low rr all day is totally ok and it grows their e-peen.

I am just their wake up call.

If I am alone and I see you in a 1v1 fight I will not add you.
If I see you when I am alone I will happily fight you 1v1.
If I see you when I am with my group you are likely going to die - I am not going to even attempt to restrain my group from killing you (very few exceptions to this rule).


If you can't handle that go play on your Xbox, ask your mommy for a tissue, drink your monster energy drink and get over it. I don't care if you are a visi or a sneak. If you are a realm enemy and you die I will take your rps and I will smile about it.
why bother talking about situations that will never come up?

Sat 2 May 2020 10:43 PM by Parole
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:40 PM
Parole wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:35 PM
On this servers a 2v1, 3v1, 3v2, 4v2, 4v3 etc... is called a zerg by all these solo l33t stealthers. They think all stealthers should solo. period, end of story. They believe standing on a bridge killing low rr all day is totally ok and it grows their e-peen.

I am just their wake up call.

If I am alone and I see you in a 1v1 fight I will not add you.
If I see you when I am alone I will happily fight you 1v1.
If I see you when I am with my group you are likely going to die - I am not going to even attempt to restrain my group from killing you (very few exceptions to this rule).


If you can't handle that go play on your Xbox, ask your mommy for a tissue, drink your monster energy drink and get over it. I don't care if you are a visi or a sneak. If you are a realm enemy and you die I will take your rps and I will smile about it.
why bother talking about situations that will never come up?

Man you are clever. I bet you are first in the lunchline at your elementary school too.

At. Least. You. Know. Where. You. Stand.

I will help you one time only.


here... goes.






type this in game

/macro PAROLE /release

Use this button after you see me.

gl hf
Sat 2 May 2020 10:45 PM by Riac
lol you about to wear that enter button out.
Sat 2 May 2020 10:48 PM by Parole
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:17 PM
Parole wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:12 PM
Riac is just a troll. A group does not make a zerg. He loses on forums just like he loses in game.

Feed me rps Riac. You are my bish. I own you.

Now be a good little boy and reply. Do what your told.
Keep on stealth zerging parole. Can't wait for the 1v1 zone.
How are you two going to kill anything if they don't allow teaming? I guess there's always adding.


/douchebaggery off

I can't wait for the 1v1 zone either. You will finally get what you want. Go go mortal combat. This 1v1 arena is not DAOC nor is it the way it was intended to be played. I am glad you will be happy. I will be happy for you. I will be in there on Parole often, hopefully we get a chance to fight a few times.

/douchebaggery on
Sat 2 May 2020 10:49 PM by paqdizzle
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:41 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:40 PM
Parole wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:35 PM
On this servers a 2v1, 3v1, 3v2, 4v2, 4v3 etc... is called a zerg by all these solo l33t stealthers. They think all stealthers should solo. period, end of story. They believe standing on a bridge killing low rr all day is totally ok and it grows their e-peen.

I am just their wake up call.

If I am alone and I see you in a 1v1 fight I will not add you.
If I see you when I am alone I will happily fight you 1v1.
If I see you when I am with my group you are likely going to die - I am not going to even attempt to restrain my group from killing you (very few exceptions to this rule).


If you can't handle that go play on your Xbox, ask your mommy for a tissue, drink your monster energy drink and get over it. I don't care if you are a visi or a sneak. If you are a realm enemy and you die I will take your rps and I will smile about it.
why bother talking about situations that will never come up?



see how offended these dudes are? LOL it's like they only die from sneaks ganking them... I never seen a stealth group that was 2fg's worth of sneaks since Swamp Donkey Ninjas or Stealth Legends.. Go outside your Mile gate and wait there... if your mid or hib, you will most likely run into a solo mini first, or FG of visies more often than a full group of sneaks, or even just a couple of sneaks... If you're on Alb, you find FG of visies more often then anything, with the occasional sneaks (maybe 4 or around 4 of them OOOOOOO) if you're out by any docks, Just give it time, and you will eventually have to run from a FG of visies before a FG of anything else. sneaks aren't zerg size on this server and there is a reason. PA is dirt in comparison, Archery is trash on scouts and we lost a good 200 damage on crit shots.. to compensate, we got a shield snare when all we wanted was Bow damage back..
Sat 2 May 2020 10:50 PM by daytonchambers
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 4:56 PM
This change is part of a series of changes: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=99782

We will keep the old archery system, however, we will make a few adjustments. Archery changes / buffs have to be handled carefully as a noticable increase in archers and especially archer zergs would be a lot worse than having useless archery, therefore the behavior after these changes will be watched closely.

The damage modifier formula will be changed for non-volley archery shots only and no longer cap at min(spec - 1, enemy level + 1) aka no longer cap at 52 in pvp situations. This alone will make a noticable difference between 27 and 50 bow spec while at the same time increasing the bow damage for higher specs without touching the current 27 bow damage.
Penetrating shot 2 will allow 50% of the damage to go through against self casted bt.


And then for a potential change:
A new critical shot rank will be added at around 45 archery that will apply a certain effect to the target, candidates for this effect would be prevent flight, nearsight and disease.

Love the first part. Hate the second part. Archers do not need a gimmicky nearsight or disease. Leave that garbage to the casters.

If ANYTHING should be added to the bow line it should be SureShot at 45 bow spec, exactly where it was placed on live.
Sat 2 May 2020 10:51 PM by thirian24
Parole wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:35 PM
On this servers a 2v1, 3v1, 3v2, 4v2, 4v3 etc... is called a zerg by all these solo l33t stealthers. They think all stealthers should solo. period, end of story. They believe standing on a bridge killing low rr all day is totally ok and it grows their e-peen.

I am just their wake up call.

If I am alone and I see you in a 1v1 fight I will not add you.
If I see you when I am alone I will happily fight you 1v1.
If I see you when I am with my group you are likely going to die - I am not going to even attempt to restrain my group from killing you (very few exceptions to this rule).


If you can't handle that go play on your Xbox, ask your mommy for a tissue, drink your monster energy drink and get over it. I don't care if you are a visi or a sneak. If you are a realm enemy and you die I will take your rps and I will smile about it.


Id much rather kill people close to or my own RR. But also, how is this different than a grp of sneaks killing soloers? please explain.

One more thing, what does this say about me, leaving my rr10 NS to go off to play a lowbie SB and still killing people higher Realm Rank than myself, 90% of the time? Should I only kill people at my low Realm Rank? Or should I keep killing people higher RR than me? Am I trash b/c I kill solos, if they are higher RR? Or just when they are lower? Because currently, as it stands on my SB.. you don't get much lower RR than that, and im doing just fine.
Sat 2 May 2020 10:56 PM by daytonchambers
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:49 PM
Go outside your Mile gate and wait there... if your mid or hib, you will most likely run into a solo mini first, or FG of visies more often than a full group of sneaks, or even just a couple of sneaks...


There are groups of 3-8 stealthers camping the dock run in Cruachan Gorge every single day at some point, mowing down xp item farmers or people heading to turn in branches. To a solo player, getting flute mezzed then stun shouted followed by three perfs in a row is being severely outnumbered and destroyed by a zerg in every practical sense of the term.

As Riac said, when its a group of visibles inc I can at least see them ahead of time to try and make a run for it. Vs sneaks you see nothing until you simply explode.
Sat 2 May 2020 10:58 PM by Riac
Parole wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:48 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:17 PM
Parole wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:12 PM
Riac is just a troll. A group does not make a zerg. He loses on forums just like he loses in game.

Feed me rps Riac. You are my bish. I own you.

Now be a good little boy and reply. Do what your told.
Keep on stealth zerging parole. Can't wait for the 1v1 zone.
How are you two going to kill anything if they don't allow teaming? I guess there's always adding.


/douchebaggery off

I can't wait for the 1v1 zone either. You will finally get what you want. Go go mortal combat. This 1v1 arena is not DAOC nor is it the way it was intended to be played. I am glad you will be happy. I will be happy for you. I will be in there on Parole often, hopefully we get a chance to fight a few times.

/douchebaggery on
i sort of mispoke there. its not a 1v1 zone, its a solo zone. its like an event zone but you can only enter if youre solo and they speculated about having rules against teaming. in other words, youre fucked lol.
Sat 2 May 2020 10:58 PM by Cadebrennus
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 8:46 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 5:35 PM
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 5:29 PM
yeah ranger get now op shild snare and crit shot with disease and nearsight :-D.

Shield snare on a Ranger? Dude, that's a Scout. You should learn what to talk smack about before talking smack.

yeah sorry bro i mean scout ;-)

Sorry about being rude about it then. I thought you were jumping on the Ranger-hating hyperbole train.
Sat 2 May 2020 11:00 PM by Noashakra
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:49 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:41 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:40 PM
why bother talking about situations that will never come up?



see how offended these dudes are? LOL it's like they only die from sneaks ganking them... I never seen a stealth group that was 2fg's worth of sneaks since Swamp Donkey Ninjas or Stealth Legends.. Go outside your Mile gate and wait there... if your mid or hib, you will most likely run into a solo mini first, or FG of visies more often than a full group of sneaks, or even just a couple of sneaks... If you're on Alb, you find FG of visies more often then anything, with the occasional sneaks (maybe 4 or around 4 of them OOOOOOO) if you're out by any docks, Just give it time, and you will eventually have to run from a FG of visies before a FG of anything else. sneaks aren't zerg size on this server and there is a reason. PA is dirt in comparison, Archery is trash on scouts and we lost a good 200 damage on crit shots.. to compensate, we got a shield snare when all we wanted was Bow damage back..

weird flex but ok
Sat 2 May 2020 11:00 PM by thirian24
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:56 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:49 PM
Go outside your Mile gate and wait there... if your mid or hib, you will most likely run into a solo mini first, or FG of visies more often than a full group of sneaks, or even just a couple of sneaks...


There are groups of 3-8 stealthers camping the dock run in Cruachan Gorge every single day at some point, mowing down xp item farmers or people heading to turn in branches. To a solo player, getting flute mezzed then stun shouted followed by three perfs in a row is being severely outnumbered and destroyed by a zerg in every practical sense of the term.

As Riac said, when its a group of visibles inc I can at least see them ahead of time to try and make a run for it. Vs sneaks you see nothing until you simply explode.


That's it, pretty much summed up.

They want safety in numbers AND stealth.
Sat 2 May 2020 11:00 PM by Cadebrennus
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 8:49 PM
Robo wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 8:34 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 6:08 PM
For real. These dudes aren't going to stop zerging because they got buffed. If anything, you're about to see a new influx of archers. Gj increasing the zerg.

I have played here for about 3 months now in RvR and I have not once seen a stealth zerg lol... Occasionally a FG of stealthers sitting at docks outside bled but that's it, 1 FG definitely isn't a zerg seeing 1 fg of stealthers cant even touch a FG of visi's...

That's because there aren't any lool... Either way, think about it.... They let fully synergized 8mans zerg down solos all day.. Let's keep that in but try NOT to let sneaks "Zerg"... I don't get it, the sneak zergs is just another form to fight back against this stupid meta that's set in place on phoenix. It's bad enough with the zergs as is, adding another form of zergs to fight back shouldn't be an issue..

And is this archery change going to be for all 3 realms instead of just fixing scouts!?!?!?!?! lmfao.. It's like whoever is testing to push this to their server isn't playing on phoenix to know what really needs to happen.

Scouts typically have much higher Archery spec than Hunters and Rangers, so yes, they will benefit more from this proposed change. That being said, if an Archer (typically a Scout) doesn't spec anything in melee, they shouldn't expect to get anything from melee.
Sat 2 May 2020 11:02 PM by Riac
paq... do you honestly think that i am offended atm lol?
the mental gymnastics you go through in some of these post is just amazing. it is down right hilarious. im not at all offended, tbh im quite amazed.

ima ask you something and its going to seem a bit rude but i really wanna know.
are you special needs or something? im just kinda talking shit while i watch tv, but if youre special needs or w/e im gonna feel bad for talking shit to you. ill just let you say w/e you want and live in your own world if thats the case.
Sat 2 May 2020 11:16 PM by Parole
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:51 PM
Parole wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:35 PM
On this servers a 2v1, 3v1, 3v2, 4v2, 4v3 etc... is called a zerg by all these solo l33t stealthers. They think all stealthers should solo. period, end of story. They believe standing on a bridge killing low rr all day is totally ok and it grows their e-peen.

I am just their wake up call.

If I am alone and I see you in a 1v1 fight I will not add you.
If I see you when I am alone I will happily fight you 1v1.
If I see you when I am with my group you are likely going to die - I am not going to even attempt to restrain my group from killing you (very few exceptions to this rule).


If you can't handle that go play on your Xbox, ask your mommy for a tissue, drink your monster energy drink and get over it. I don't care if you are a visi or a sneak. If you are a realm enemy and you die I will take your rps and I will smile about it.


Id much rather kill people close to or my own RR. But also, how is this different than a grp of sneaks killing soloers? please explain.

One more thing, what does this say about me, leaving my rr10 NS to go off to play a lowbie SB and still killing people higher Realm Rank than myself, 90% of the time? Should I only kill people at my low Realm Rank? Or should I keep killing people higher RR than me? Am I trash b/c I kill solos, if they are higher RR? Or just when they are lower? Because currently, as it stands on my SB.. you don't get much lower RR than that, and im doing just fine.

Not trying to call you out as the exception here but you are, I usually will *try* to avoid killing you with our group - not always avoidable. Your low RR SB is a badass haha. So is Aamp . I think the big difference here is all these high rr sneaks are the ones complaining about stealth groups over and over and over and over again. Groups are part of the game. It's time soloers just get used to it. I don't think you killing a low RR char on a bridge is different that a group of sneaks killing a soloer. I accept ALL of it. Soloers (like you bro) are the ones who cannot accept this. If you see a stealth group, move somewhere else. I recommend seeing it as part of the game, and maybe part of your challenge for rps for the night.
Sat 2 May 2020 11:17 PM by Parole
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:56 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:49 PM
Go outside your Mile gate and wait there... if your mid or hib, you will most likely run into a solo mini first, or FG of visies more often than a full group of sneaks, or even just a couple of sneaks...


There are groups of 3-8 stealthers camping the dock run in Cruachan Gorge every single day at some point, mowing down xp item farmers or people heading to turn in branches. To a solo player, getting flute mezzed then stun shouted followed by three perfs in a row is being severely outnumbered and destroyed by a zerg in every practical sense of the term.

As Riac said, when its a group of visibles inc I can at least see them ahead of time to try and make a run for it. Vs sneaks you see nothing until you simply explode.

So you are going to outrun a visi group w/ speed 6? LOL it is the same. Accept it.
Sat 2 May 2020 11:21 PM by Cadebrennus
Remember when this thread used to be about Archery?
Sat 2 May 2020 11:21 PM by Parole
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:58 PM
Parole wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:48 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:17 PM
Keep on stealth zerging parole. Can't wait for the 1v1 zone.
How are you two going to kill anything if they don't allow teaming? I guess there's always adding.


/douchebaggery off

I can't wait for the 1v1 zone either. You will finally get what you want. Go go mortal combat. This 1v1 arena is not DAOC nor is it the way it was intended to be played. I am glad you will be happy. I will be happy for you. I will be in there on Parole often, hopefully we get a chance to fight a few times.

/douchebaggery on
i sort of mispoke there. its not a 1v1 zone, its a solo zone. its like an event zone but you can only enter if youre solo and they speculated about having rules against teaming. in other words, youre fucked lol.

We'll see ><
Sat 2 May 2020 11:22 PM by daytonchambers
Parole wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:17 PM
So you are going to outrun a visi group w/ speed 6? LOL it is the same. Accept it.


I have 43 pathfinding. WIth red speed boost plus sprint I CAN maintain distance long enough to get back to my gate, even vs a speed 6 group. I do it all the time.
Sat 2 May 2020 11:23 PM by Parole
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:21 PM
Remember when this thread used to be about Archery?

Haters trolled it into a stea;th group hate thread. They see any archery boosts as further detrimental to their solo assassin way of life.
Sat 2 May 2020 11:27 PM by Riac
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:22 PM
Parole wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:17 PM
So you are going to outrun a visi group w/ speed 6? LOL it is the same. Accept it.


I have 43 pathfinding. WIth red speed boost plus sprint I CAN maintain distance long enough to get back to my gate, even vs a speed 6 group. I do it all the time.
The answer is stealth. You see them coming and wait till they leave before you resume looking for a fight. Pretty basic stealther stuff @parole
Sat 2 May 2020 11:31 PM by paqdizzle
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:56 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:49 PM
Go outside your Mile gate and wait there... if your mid or hib, you will most likely run into a solo mini first, or FG of visies more often than a full group of sneaks, or even just a couple of sneaks...


There are groups of 3-8 stealthers camping the dock run in Cruachan Gorge every single day at some point, mowing down xp item farmers or people heading to turn in branches. To a solo player, getting flute mezzed then stun shouted followed by three perfs in a row is being severely outnumbered and destroyed by a zerg in every practical sense of the term.

As Riac said, when its a group of visibles inc I can at least see them ahead of time to try and make a run for it. Vs sneaks you see nothing until you simply explode.

That's how they are intended to work. Group size and player's playstyle is based on those people and how they play. Same gorup of people can do the same thing on visies and it happens more often then sneaks in my case. On both my alb and Mid characters, it's the same story (west coast timezone) <- that might be where it's different playstyles... but what riac is saying happens- doesn't happen but very seldomly when I'm on. Yesterday on my warrior I went out solo for about 4-5 hours... I had 1 encounter where it was 1v1, but then a skald came and stole my DB.. oh well.. After that? Nothing but 5+ vs 1.. I went everywhere on mid/alb side. Poc, exp locations, mile gates, docks, bridges, boat drop offs, Flag points... All of it.. I ran into a group of, Bard, druid, eld, ment, BM several times, even seen them coming a few times but I can't outrun that on my warrior... Then I ran into PKs group like 3 times.. they seemed to know where I was almost every time, even hiding in the trees or ruins.. Then I ran into a Mids BG(19 people) vs PK and ended up losing.. Ran into merc, sorc, mini.. Ran into an Arms, mini, sorc, merc, necro. and again some time later but they had a cleric next time, so I assumed they were going to get him when I ran into them the first time :/ oh well, shit happens but it's the variable I run into THE most every day I play. When I'm on my scout it's literally the same thing, but I find more sneaks. usually 3 mans. There was one time someone QQed in /region about a "zerg of 4 sneaks at east tower flag" and who came to the rescue? A fully synergized 8man with 2 of them using SL pots.. It is what it is and this is how I see it go down EVERY single time I log on ANY realm... I don't understand how you think I'm lying or riac or whoever... This IS what I see on the daily. 2pm to 1am, is my timeframe where I can play. There have been times I got on at 2pm and got off around 4pm and saw the same scenarios.. There have been times I got on around 5pm and got off around 10pm or sometimes all nighters and see the same scenarios... it's what I see most.

In regards to the OP's topic though... Personally, The archery fix should only pertain to scouts, dunno if it is or not but seems like for all 3 realms... Scouts never needed the snare with 45 shield, we just wanted our damage back, and for penetrating arrow to be just that... and arrow that penetrates, the edit to Pen arrow being halfed is still putting it in the *useless* bag.. Who in their right mind would use a critshot on a target with a BT.. Their hardest hitting attack... just to get halfed to a standard shot.. Why not, break bubble with a normal shot, then re-critshot? instead you'd rather have them notice they just lost their BT AND a bit of health? so now they are aware they got shot, and you have to wait 10 seconds to re-critshot for full damage!? unreal.. a waste of time.

In beta, I was doing around 800-850 damage critshots on most casters, then around 350-400+ standard shots, and around 180-200 rapids. Not too often 200, but still saw it on some classes. We only had slam, which meant we were in melee range to get hit. I'd numb to get range and they usually purged, if not I still gained range and I could then wait for slam, then I would critshot, and get a standard shot off before stun wore, but they would be in critical condition or dead if they were a caster (most of the time, like 8-10 times no lie)... This is what they wanted though, to nerf sneaks here. They know a lot of people are like riac and would cry about something being used how IT SHOULD.. RvR, not this exp ganking crap or ganking in general, I'm talking about being utilized in RvR combat. I just want that back. I actually want to see assassins be just that, assassins. Riac would be the type of person that would try and ban guerilla warfare for the military..
Sat 2 May 2020 11:38 PM by daytonchambers
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:31 PM
In regards to the OP's topic though... Personally, The archery fix should only pertain to scouts, dunno if it is or not but seems like for all 3 realms...


No.

If I spec 45 in archery I should actually benefit from speccing that high, be it on a scout hunter or ranger. This fix to the damage scale does just that.

Saying that ONLY scouts deserve a fix to their archery line is incredibly selfish on your part.
Sat 2 May 2020 11:39 PM by Riac
i love how he calls these 8 man fully synergized rofl. its like theyve powered up or something, turned into voltron.
i also like how he doesnt understand why full groups are SLing him as hes trying to shoot ppl at the task flags.
Sat 2 May 2020 11:45 PM by paqdizzle
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:38 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:31 PM
In regards to the OP's topic though... Personally, The archery fix should only pertain to scouts, dunno if it is or not but seems like for all 3 realms...


No.

If I spec 45 in archery I should actually benefit from speccing that high, be it on a scout hunter or ranger. This fix to the damage scale does just that.

Saying that ONLY scouts deserve a fix to their archery line is incredibly selfish on your part.

Yes, due to rangers doing the same as they were in beta, they did because they already had good melee... Rangers never hit as hard as scouts, nor did hunters. Scouts were nerffed to their bow damage... Now all archers are getting what scouts had lol... Rangers/hunters should never hit as hard as scouts with bow, they never have...
The + you put in archery meant a new rapid fire/pen arrow that USED TO WORK.. it was nerffed among other things. that was your benefits with hunters and rangers for going more into bow. They never did the same damage as scouts with 50 bow..
Sat 2 May 2020 11:51 PM by gotwqqd
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:38 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:31 PM
In regards to the OP's topic though... Personally, The archery fix should only pertain to scouts, dunno if it is or not but seems like for all 3 realms...


No.

If I spec 45 in archery I should actually benefit from speccing that high, be it on a scout hunter or ranger. This fix to the damage scale does just that.

Saying that ONLY scouts deserve a fix to their archery line is incredibly selfish on your part.
That’s a bit disingenuous
Scouts have no chance of competing in terms of melee no matter what they do.
Just because they are all archers doesn’t mean each excels the same in that area...or melee.
Sat 2 May 2020 11:57 PM by daytonchambers
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:51 PM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:38 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:31 PM
In regards to the OP's topic though... Personally, The archery fix should only pertain to scouts, dunno if it is or not but seems like for all 3 realms...


No.

If I spec 45 in archery I should actually benefit from speccing that high, be it on a scout hunter or ranger. This fix to the damage scale does just that.

Saying that ONLY scouts deserve a fix to their archery line is incredibly selfish on your part.
That’s a bit disingenuous
Scouts have no chance of competing in terms of melee no matter what they do.
Just because they are all archers doesn’t mean each excels the same in that area...or melee.


Rangers or Hunters that want to remain viable in melee will not spec as high in archery, so this proposed change will not apply to them anyways.

If I spec 45 archery, even as a ranger, I kill my melee ability. There simply aren't enough spec points to take advantage of this proposed change while remaining a viable melee fighter. We can't have it all
Sat 2 May 2020 11:58 PM by thirian24
Parole wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:16 PM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:51 PM
Parole wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:35 PM
On this servers a 2v1, 3v1, 3v2, 4v2, 4v3 etc... is called a zerg by all these solo l33t stealthers. They think all stealthers should solo. period, end of story. They believe standing on a bridge killing low rr all day is totally ok and it grows their e-peen.

I am just their wake up call.

If I am alone and I see you in a 1v1 fight I will not add you.
If I see you when I am alone I will happily fight you 1v1.
If I see you when I am with my group you are likely going to die - I am not going to even attempt to restrain my group from killing you (very few exceptions to this rule).


If you can't handle that go play on your Xbox, ask your mommy for a tissue, drink your monster energy drink and get over it. I don't care if you are a visi or a sneak. If you are a realm enemy and you die I will take your rps and I will smile about it.


Id much rather kill people close to or my own RR. But also, how is this different than a grp of sneaks killing soloers? please explain.

One more thing, what does this say about me, leaving my rr10 NS to go off to play a lowbie SB and still killing people higher Realm Rank than myself, 90% of the time? Should I only kill people at my low Realm Rank? Or should I keep killing people higher RR than me? Am I trash b/c I kill solos, if they are higher RR? Or just when they are lower? Because currently, as it stands on my SB.. you don't get much lower RR than that, and im doing just fine.

Not trying to call you out as the exception here but you are, I usually will *try* to avoid killing you with our group - not always avoidable. Your low RR SB is a badass haha. So is Aamp . I think the big difference here is all these high rr sneaks are the ones complaining about stealth groups over and over and over and over again. Groups are part of the game. It's time soloers just get used to it. I don't think you killing a low RR char on a bridge is different that a group of sneaks killing a soloer. I accept ALL of it. Soloers (like you bro) are the ones who cannot accept this. If you see a stealth group, move somewhere else. I recommend seeing it as part of the game, and maybe part of your challenge for rps for the night.


I do try to avoid stealth grps. The issue is, youre not the only person running a stealth grp. Before I make a run, I sit at the frontier town for about 10 min to watch kill spam. This lets me know which areas to avoid as I know almost all of the soloers and stealth grps during NA. I can literally go anywhere, even low traffic areas, and find some form of a stealth grp. EU time is basically unplayable for solos.

So now, tell me what I need to do? Feed rps? Quit?

I try to avoid high traffic areas 90% of the time. If there is literally no where to go most of the time, whats left for me?

EDIT: I think many many people do not want to see a buff to archery because the classes are leachers. They leach everything possible. Buffing this will only aid in their ability to do so. They leach 8mans, they leach smalls and they leach 1v1. Its toxic to all forms of game play on this server. This isn't 2001. Most of us aren't children learning how to play this new game. We are small nitche community. Why not try to promote server and player base health rather than make it a toxic cesspool of hatred. I don't understand this. "Lets fuck everyone over until we have no one to play with anymore."
Sat 2 May 2020 11:59 PM by daytonchambers
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:45 PM
Yes, due to rangers doing the same as they were in beta, they did because they already had good melee... Rangers never hit as hard as scouts, nor did hunters. Scouts were nerffed to their bow damage... Now all archers are getting what scouts had lol... Rangers/hunters should never hit as hard as scouts with bow, they never have...
The + you put in archery meant a new rapid fire/pen arrow that USED TO WORK.. it was nerffed among other things. that was your benefits with hunters and rangers for going more into bow. They never did the same damage as scouts with 50 bow..



This proposed change will make speccing 50 bow viable as it removes the composite 52 cap. Poof, you get your bow damage back. No sane ranger or hunter will spec that high in their archery line which means you get to be the archer king again, just like you want.

Making the change exclusive to Scouts would be redundant and unnecessary, since as I just said the other two classes wont spec as high in archery to take advantage of it and if they do they'll be just as worthless in melee as scouts are.
Sun 3 May 2020 12:03 AM by Noashakra
Scouts always had the same damage as ranger, only better range. Stop pulling things that aren't real.
They were doing more damage because they were going 50 bow, and ranger only 40.
Sun 3 May 2020 12:03 AM by daytonchambers
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:03 AM
Scouts always had the same damage as ranger, only better range. Stop pulling things that aren't real.
They were doing more damage because they were going 50 bow, and ranger only 40.


100% this
Sun 3 May 2020 12:09 AM by gotwqqd
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:59 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:45 PM
Yes, due to rangers doing the same as they were in beta, they did because they already had good melee... Rangers never hit as hard as scouts, nor did hunters. Scouts were nerffed to their bow damage... Now all archers are getting what scouts had lol... Rangers/hunters should never hit as hard as scouts with bow, they never have...
The + you put in archery meant a new rapid fire/pen arrow that USED TO WORK.. it was nerffed among other things. that was your benefits with hunters and rangers for going more into bow. They never did the same damage as scouts with 50 bow..



This proposed change will make speccing 50 bow viable as it removes the composite 52 cap. Poof, you get your bow damage back.

No sane ranger or hunter will spec that high in their archery line, which means you get to be the archer king again, just like you want.

Why not?
It’s what you are asking for in another thread.

So you would have equal bow(or more because of DA)
and still superior melee.
Anyone wanting having a superior archer would still be better off with a ranger or hunter
Sun 3 May 2020 12:13 AM by daytonchambers
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:09 AM
Why not?
It’s what you are asking for in another thread.

So you would have equal bow(or more because of DA)
and still superior melee.
Anyone wanting having a superior archer would still be better off with a ranger or hunter


Please let me know of this magic ranger spec where I can go 50 archery and still be melee viable. It's not a thing, dude.

That being said, if a hunter or ranger WANTS to be a shooting spec as the cost of their melee they should have that option.
Sun 3 May 2020 12:18 AM by gotwqqd
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:13 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:09 AM
Why not?
It’s what you are asking for in another thread.

So you would have equal bow(or more because of DA)
and still superior melee.
Anyone wanting having a superior archer would still be better off with a ranger or hunter


Please let me know of this magic ranger spec where I can go 50 archery and still be melee viable. It's not a thing, dude.

That being said, if a hunter or ranger WANTS to be a shooting spec as the cost of their melee they should have that option.
Do you bother reading and digesting what’s written.
They will have greater melee given any bow spec.
Sun 3 May 2020 12:18 AM by Centenario
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 4:56 PM
The damage modifier formula will be changed for non-volley archery shots only and no longer cap at min(spec - 1, enemy level + 1) aka no longer cap at 52 in pvp situations. This alone will make a noticable difference between 27 and 50 bow spec while at the same time increasing the bow damage for higher specs without touching
35+15 is the usual spec you reach 50 at RR5, this means that before a 35bow will do as much damage as a 50 bow spec...

Now a 50 bow spec will be counted as 65 bow, and will do what 15*0.5=7.5% more damage.

If you hit your arrows in Rapid fire at 120-150 and in standard at 200-250, you will hit instead at 125-160 and 215-265.

I think archery needs a way bigger buff.

The scout should be the equivalent of the Eldritch:
Slam + spam arrows = stun + spam spells.
The damage (DPS) should be equivalent.
Sun 3 May 2020 12:24 AM by Riac
Centenario wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:18 AM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 4:56 PM
The damage modifier formula will be changed for non-volley archery shots only and no longer cap at min(spec - 1, enemy level + 1) aka no longer cap at 52 in pvp situations. This alone will make a noticable difference between 27 and 50 bow spec while at the same time increasing the bow damage for higher specs without touching
35+15 is the usual spec you reach 50 at RR5, this means that before a 35bow will do as much damage as a 50 bow spec...

Now a 50 bow spec will be counted as 65 bow, and will do what 15*0.5=7.5% more damage.

If you hit your arrows in Rapid fire at 120-150 and in standard at 200-250, you will hit instead at 125-160 and 215-265.

I think archery needs a way bigger buff.

The scout should be the equivalent of the Eldritch:
Slam + spam arrows = stun + spam spells.
The damage (DPS) should be equivalent.
Jesus Christ, not even.
You want caster dmg while wearing chain? (Is it chain?) As well as having stealth and slam???
L- fucking-mao
Go ahead give sins bm/merc/zerk dmg while your at it.
Sun 3 May 2020 12:26 AM by daytonchambers
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:18 AM
Do you bother reading and digesting what’s written.
They will have greater melee given any bow spec.


Do you bother?
I asked you to show me a spec with 50 bow where any archer can be melee viable. You just dodged the challenge and went right on with your bullshit.

Rangers, Hunters, and Scouts are on the same damage table. So if we have the same crappy melee spec we gonna have the same crappy damage. Period.
Sun 3 May 2020 12:27 AM by Parole
I haven't played a Hunter or a Ranger on this server but do they generally see archery as being weak in their desired spec? I know archery dmg is usually around 480-550dmg for crit shot and 180-200dmg on a regular shot for a Scout.

I will attempt to walk you through how I see archery as not being viable in it's current form. I will only speak to Scout as that is my experience on Phoenix.

Scout has no truesight vs assasins (if they get popped they can snare/slam/snare and get away) - relegated to just avoiding assassins if possible. Let's have the archer fight something else for this example (melee class assumed).

Thane vs Scout - assuming 35-45 Bow spec
Thane has approx. 2000 HP + Heart of Legion + heal pot + IP2. This is probably close to 3600HP of health for the archer to overcome. Scout opens with a crit shot and does 550 dmg, followed up by two shots of 200dmg each, at least one of these follow up shots will be blocked. Players engage in combat. Thane has a health pool of approx. 2850HP left for the scout to chew through somehow. He can try to melee, scout has GREAT shield defense but Thane has similar. We can try to exchange blows in melee or we can plan to slam, snare, escape and/or kite. Thane uses both his insta DDs at start of melee combat (approx. 250dmg+/-) Scout Slams, Thane Purges, Thane Slams, Scout purges. Scout Snares or Thane can use Static Tempest - Thane can reslam the scout because of Static tempest reset and either melee and/or use insta DDs and castable DDs on Scout. Scout will not be able to overcome this dmg in melee and would eventually lose. Assuming the scout can live through the second slam (I think he can) he uses his IP2, heart of Legion, heal pot to just live to fight another day and snares the Thane. (thane will be casting on him until he is out of 1500range) - but alas he just has to run away and has no chance to win rps vs this or similar melee target. Only way to fix this is to either give the scout more melee dmg or more dmg for his archery shots so that he can survive the ensuing punishment once he is engaged in melee combat with a foe. I could probably make a scenario like this for 70% of the melee classes in the game vs a scout. Ranger would be much better off with his melee in this scenario vs the Thane because his dual wield vs the Thane shield.

If the scout is not supposed to be a melee class then the ranged opening dps needs to make up for the lack of melee dps needed later in a fight.


---------

separate rant - Crit shot - slam - Crit shot. Currently there is a timer that does not allow for multiple crit shots to a target. This was not how crit shot worked on other servers I have played on. My experience was that if a class was running or fighting (not stunned) the crit shot would change to a regular shot. On Phoenix if my target is stationary and I shoot it with a crit shot, then slam a few seconds later, I cannot crit shot again (even though they are stunned).

I personally don't think we need extra procs on bow shots, just increase dmg for regular shots, and crit shots, make truesight an RA and allow a target to be crit shot multiple times if they are stationary or stunned.
Sun 3 May 2020 12:31 AM by Parole
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:27 PM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:22 PM
Parole wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:17 PM
So you are going to outrun a visi group w/ speed 6? LOL it is the same. Accept it.


I have 43 pathfinding. WIth red speed boost plus sprint I CAN maintain distance long enough to get back to my gate, even vs a speed 6 group. I do it all the time.
The answer is stealth. You see them coming and wait till they leave before you resume looking for a fight. Pretty basic stealther stuff @parole

My assumption was that his complaint applied to any class in the game, didn't realize he was a ranger with his first comment. If he is out in the frontier solo trying to be Rambo it's on him to survive.
Sun 3 May 2020 12:35 AM by Parole
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:58 PM
Parole wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:16 PM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 10:51 PM
Id much rather kill people close to or my own RR. But also, how is this different than a grp of sneaks killing soloers? please explain.

One more thing, what does this say about me, leaving my rr10 NS to go off to play a lowbie SB and still killing people higher Realm Rank than myself, 90% of the time? Should I only kill people at my low Realm Rank? Or should I keep killing people higher RR than me? Am I trash b/c I kill solos, if they are higher RR? Or just when they are lower? Because currently, as it stands on my SB.. you don't get much lower RR than that, and im doing just fine.

Not trying to call you out as the exception here but you are, I usually will *try* to avoid killing you with our group - not always avoidable. Your low RR SB is a badass haha. So is Aamp . I think the big difference here is all these high rr sneaks are the ones complaining about stealth groups over and over and over and over again. Groups are part of the game. It's time soloers just get used to it. I don't think you killing a low RR char on a bridge is different that a group of sneaks killing a soloer. I accept ALL of it. Soloers (like you bro) are the ones who cannot accept this. If you see a stealth group, move somewhere else. I recommend seeing it as part of the game, and maybe part of your challenge for rps for the night.


I do try to avoid stealth grps. The issue is, youre not the only person running a stealth grp. Before I make a run, I sit at the frontier town for about 10 min to watch kill spam. This lets me know which areas to avoid as I know almost all of the soloers and stealth grps during NA. I can literally go anywhere, even low traffic areas, and find some form of a stealth grp. EU time is basically unplayable for solos.

So now, tell me what I need to do? Feed rps? Quit?

I try to avoid high traffic areas 90% of the time. If there is literally no where to go most of the time, whats left for me?

EDIT: I think many many people do not want to see a buff to archery because the classes are leachers. They leach everything possible. Buffing this will only aid in their ability to do so. They leach 8mans, they leach smalls and they leach 1v1. Its toxic to all forms of game play on this server. This isn't 2001. Most of us aren't children learning how to play this new game. We are small nitche community. Why not try to promote server and player base health rather than make it a toxic cesspool of hatred. I don't understand this. "Lets fuck everyone over until we have no one to play with anymore."

So instead of archers being viable you think they should just reroll something that can't leech from afar? Delete the class. Good fix.
Sun 3 May 2020 12:38 AM by Riac
Parole wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:35 AM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:58 PM
Parole wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:16 PM
Not trying to call you out as the exception here but you are, I usually will *try* to avoid killing you with our group - not always avoidable. Your low RR SB is a badass haha. So is Aamp . I think the big difference here is all these high rr sneaks are the ones complaining about stealth groups over and over and over and over again. Groups are part of the game. It's time soloers just get used to it. I don't think you killing a low RR char on a bridge is different that a group of sneaks killing a soloer. I accept ALL of it. Soloers (like you bro) are the ones who cannot accept this. If you see a stealth group, move somewhere else. I recommend seeing it as part of the game, and maybe part of your challenge for rps for the night.


I do try to avoid stealth grps. The issue is, youre not the only person running a stealth grp. Before I make a run, I sit at the frontier town for about 10 min to watch kill spam. This lets me know which areas to avoid as I know almost all of the soloers and stealth grps during NA. I can literally go anywhere, even low traffic areas, and find some form of a stealth grp. EU time is basically unplayable for solos.

So now, tell me what I need to do? Feed rps? Quit?

I try to avoid high traffic areas 90% of the time. If there is literally no where to go most of the time, whats left for me?

EDIT: I think many many people do not want to see a buff to archery because the classes are leachers. They leach everything possible. Buffing this will only aid in their ability to do so. They leach 8mans, they leach smalls and they leach 1v1. Its toxic to all forms of game play on this server. This isn't 2001. Most of us aren't children learning how to play this new game. We are small nitche community. Why not try to promote server and player base health rather than make it a toxic cesspool of hatred. I don't understand this. "Lets fuck everyone over until we have no one to play with anymore."

So instead of archers being viable you think they should just reroll something that can't leech from afar? Delete the class. Good fix.
That's pretty much how I feel. It's not an 8 man class. It's apparently so crap that it can't solo and it's not a support class.
Pretty much relegated to leeching. Who would want to play that? Stop leeching and stealth zerging. Roll a real class.
Sun 3 May 2020 12:41 AM by Parole
Riac wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:24 AM
Centenario wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:18 AM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 4:56 PM
The damage modifier formula will be changed for non-volley archery shots only and no longer cap at min(spec - 1, enemy level + 1) aka no longer cap at 52 in pvp situations. This alone will make a noticable difference between 27 and 50 bow spec while at the same time increasing the bow damage for higher specs without touching
35+15 is the usual spec you reach 50 at RR5, this means that before a 35bow will do as much damage as a 50 bow spec...

Now a 50 bow spec will be counted as 65 bow, and will do what 15*0.5=7.5% more damage.

If you hit your arrows in Rapid fire at 120-150 and in standard at 200-250, you will hit instead at 125-160 and 215-265.

I think archery needs a way bigger buff.

The scout should be the equivalent of the Eldritch:
Slam + spam arrows = stun + spam spells.
The damage (DPS) should be equivalent.
Jesus Christ, not even.
You want caster dmg while wearing chain? (Is it chain?) As well as having stealth and slam???
L- fucking-mao
Go ahead give sins bm/merc/zerk dmg while your at it.

It's called envenom bro. You have it.
Sun 3 May 2020 12:42 AM by daytonchambers
Parole wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:27 AM
I haven't played a Hunter or a Ranger on this server but do they generally see archery as being weak in their desired spec? I know archery dmg is usually around 480-550dmg for crit shot and 180-200dmg on a regular shot for a Scout.

I will attempt to walk you through how I see archery as not being viable in it's current form. I will only speak to Scout as that is my experience on Phoenix.

Scout has no truesight vs assasins (if they get popped they can snare/slam/snare and get away) - relegated to just avoiding assassins if possible. Let's have the archer fight something else for this example (melee class assumed).

Thane vs Scout - assuming 35-45 Bow spec

An archer class vs a Thane is gonna be a terrible time no matter what. Shield spec class with instant nukes better armor and more health. And yeah I think that ST resetting stun immunity is bullshit no matter what class does it
---------

separate rant - Crit shot - slam - Crit shot. Currently there is a timer that does not allow for multiple crit shots to a target. This was not how crit shot worked on other servers I have played on. My experience was that if a class was running or fighting (not stunned) the crit shot would change to a regular shot. On Phoenix if my target is stationary and I shoot it with a crit shot, then slam a few seconds later, I cannot crit shot again (even though they are stunned).

I think this is intended to prevent multiple archers target assisting and vaporizing a single target at range, which I can say I agree with. I only wish that immunity window applied to Backstab and Perf

I personally don't think we need extra procs on bow shots, just increase dmg for regular shots, and crit shots, make truesight an RA and allow a target to be crit shot multiple times if they are stationary or stunned.

I agree about not needing any additional gimmick in the archery line, save for SureShot high in the line (which was a spec option on live at a bit later patch point) which would be of great benefit to archers especially scouts.
Sun 3 May 2020 12:46 AM by Parole
Riac wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:38 AM
Parole wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:35 AM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:58 PM
I do try to avoid stealth grps. The issue is, youre not the only person running a stealth grp. Before I make a run, I sit at the frontier town for about 10 min to watch kill spam. This lets me know which areas to avoid as I know almost all of the soloers and stealth grps during NA. I can literally go anywhere, even low traffic areas, and find some form of a stealth grp. EU time is basically unplayable for solos.

So now, tell me what I need to do? Feed rps? Quit?

I try to avoid high traffic areas 90% of the time. If there is literally no where to go most of the time, whats left for me?

EDIT: I think many many people do not want to see a buff to archery because the classes are leachers. They leach everything possible. Buffing this will only aid in their ability to do so. They leach 8mans, they leach smalls and they leach 1v1. Its toxic to all forms of game play on this server. This isn't 2001. Most of us aren't children learning how to play this new game. We are small nitche community. Why not try to promote server and player base health rather than make it a toxic cesspool of hatred. I don't understand this. "Lets fuck everyone over until we have no one to play with anymore."

So instead of archers being viable you think they should just reroll something that can't leech from afar? Delete the class. Good fix.
That's pretty much how I feel. It's not an 8 man class. It's apparently so crap that it can't solo and it's not a support class.
Pretty much relegated to leeching. Who would want to play that? Stop leeching and stealth zerging. Roll a real class.

Scout w/ guard on an infi is magic duo. IMHO this IS the intended use of a scout, not adding an 8v8 and not leeching fights. I guard my whole damn group one at a time when I think they need it.

Don't knock it till you've tried it Brah. Archery is useless atm - good for an opener on a visi or rupting an enemy but that's about it.
Sun 3 May 2020 12:47 AM by Riac
Parole wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:41 AM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:24 AM
Centenario wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:18 AM
35+15 is the usual spec you reach 50 at RR5, this means that before a 35bow will do as much damage as a 50 bow spec...

Now a 50 bow spec will be counted as 65 bow, and will do what 15*0.5=7.5% more damage.

If you hit your arrows in Rapid fire at 120-150 and in standard at 200-250, you will hit instead at 125-160 and 215-265.

I think archery needs a way bigger buff.

The scout should be the equivalent of the Eldritch:
Slam + spam arrows = stun + spam spells.
The damage (DPS) should be equivalent.
Jesus Christ, not even.
You want caster dmg while wearing chain? (Is it chain?) As well as having stealth and slam???
L- fucking-mao
Go ahead give sins bm/merc/zerk dmg while your at it.

It's called envenom bro. You have it.
Envenom without viper 5 is nothing crazy. Viper 5 is extremely expensive and we don't even get to reapply spam here. So, not quite.
Sun 3 May 2020 12:50 AM by daytonchambers
Riac wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:47 AM
Parole wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:41 AM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:24 AM
Jesus Christ, not even.
You want caster dmg while wearing chain? (Is it chain?) As well as having stealth and slam???
L- fucking-mao
Go ahead give sins bm/merc/zerk dmg while your at it.

It's called envenom bro. You have it.
Envenom without viper 5 is nothing crazy. Viper 5 is extremely expensive and we don't even get to reapply spam here. So, not quite.


Plus a sin can't viper venom you from 1800 units away.
Sun 3 May 2020 12:52 AM by thirian24
Riac wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:38 AM
Parole wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:35 AM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:58 PM
I do try to avoid stealth grps. The issue is, youre not the only person running a stealth grp. Before I make a run, I sit at the frontier town for about 10 min to watch kill spam. This lets me know which areas to avoid as I know almost all of the soloers and stealth grps during NA. I can literally go anywhere, even low traffic areas, and find some form of a stealth grp. EU time is basically unplayable for solos.

So now, tell me what I need to do? Feed rps? Quit?

I try to avoid high traffic areas 90% of the time. If there is literally no where to go most of the time, whats left for me?

EDIT: I think many many people do not want to see a buff to archery because the classes are leachers. They leach everything possible. Buffing this will only aid in their ability to do so. They leach 8mans, they leach smalls and they leach 1v1. Its toxic to all forms of game play on this server. This isn't 2001. Most of us aren't children learning how to play this new game. We are small nitche community. Why not try to promote server and player base health rather than make it a toxic cesspool of hatred. I don't understand this. "Lets fuck everyone over until we have no one to play with anymore."

So instead of archers being viable you think they should just reroll something that can't leech from afar? Delete the class. Good fix.
That's pretty much how I feel. It's not an 8 man class. It's apparently so crap that it can't solo and it's not a support class.
Pretty much relegated to leeching. Who would want to play that? Stop leeching and stealth zerging. Roll a real class.

I didn't say that. If someone is addicted to drugs and youre trying to prevent them from using, are you going to bring them around people who are?

Archery prob needs some help in some way. Idk, ive been killed by plenty of archers that catch me in the open and know how to play their class. I don't think any stealth class needs a buff until they figure out a way to eliminate stealth grping. Period. All itll do is make this trash playstyle, stronger. And we all know that Albs lead the way on strong stealth grps.

Also, eliminate stealth from Minstrels. This will help kill stealth grps slightly.
Sun 3 May 2020 12:58 AM by paqdizzle
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:03 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:03 AM
Scouts always had the same damage as ranger, only better range. Stop pulling things that aren't real.
They were doing more damage because they were going 50 bow, and ranger only 40.


100% this

100% of all that was false... Rangers did around 150-200 less damage at 50 bow with their crit shots, than a scout with 50 bow. Dunno what DAOC you think you remember.. I'm comparing what used to do here in beta to what they are doing now...
Sun 3 May 2020 1:02 AM by Parole
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:52 AM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:38 AM
Parole wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:35 AM
So instead of archers being viable you think they should just reroll something that can't leech from afar? Delete the class. Good fix.
That's pretty much how I feel. It's not an 8 man class. It's apparently so crap that it can't solo and it's not a support class.
Pretty much relegated to leeching. Who would want to play that? Stop leeching and stealth zerging. Roll a real class.

I didn't say that. If someone is addicted to drugs and youre trying to prevent them from using, are you going to bring them around people who are?

Archery prob needs some help in some way. Idk, ive been killed by plenty of archers that catch me in the open and know how to play their class. I don't think any stealth class needs a buff until they figure out a way to eliminate stealth grping. Period. All itll do is make this trash playstyle, stronger. And we all know that Albs lead the way on strong stealth grps.

Also, eliminate stealth from Minstrels. This will help kill stealth grps slightly.

You hate stealth groups and I love em. Do you hate duos? Trios? Where do you draw the line? You cant force everyone to fight 1v1 (outside of an arena event)…. It's just never going to happen. I don't think it is supposed to.
Sun 3 May 2020 1:05 AM by Riac
Parole wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 1:02 AM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:52 AM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:38 AM
That's pretty much how I feel. It's not an 8 man class. It's apparently so crap that it can't solo and it's not a support class.
Pretty much relegated to leeching. Who would want to play that? Stop leeching and stealth zerging. Roll a real class.

I didn't say that. If someone is addicted to drugs and youre trying to prevent them from using, are you going to bring them around people who are?

Archery prob needs some help in some way. Idk, ive been killed by plenty of archers that catch me in the open and know how to play their class. I don't think any stealth class needs a buff until they figure out a way to eliminate stealth grping. Period. All itll do is make this trash playstyle, stronger. And we all know that Albs lead the way on strong stealth grps.

Also, eliminate stealth from Minstrels. This will help kill stealth grps slightly.

You hate stealth groups and I love em. Do you hate duos? Trios? Where do you draw the line? You cant force everyone to fight 1v1 (outside of an arena event)…. It's just never going to happen. I don't think it is supposed to.
safety in stealth and numbers
the weak always band together. i guess i cant blame them since hard motherfuckers like me roll around rofl
Sun 3 May 2020 1:06 AM by Parole
Riac wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 1:05 AM
Parole wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 1:02 AM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:52 AM
I didn't say that. If someone is addicted to drugs and youre trying to prevent them from using, are you going to bring them around people who are?

Archery prob needs some help in some way. Idk, ive been killed by plenty of archers that catch me in the open and know how to play their class. I don't think any stealth class needs a buff until they figure out a way to eliminate stealth grping. Period. All itll do is make this trash playstyle, stronger. And we all know that Albs lead the way on strong stealth grps.

Also, eliminate stealth from Minstrels. This will help kill stealth grps slightly.

You hate stealth groups and I love em. Do you hate duos? Trios? Where do you draw the line? You cant force everyone to fight 1v1 (outside of an arena event)…. It's just never going to happen. I don't think it is supposed to.
safety in stealth and numbers
the weak always band together. i guess i cant blame them since hard motherfuckers like me roll around rofl

thank you for your donation to the rp pool.

p.s.
I just took my shirt off. Keep going bro.
Sun 3 May 2020 1:09 AM by daytonchambers
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:58 AM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:03 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:03 AM
Scouts always had the same damage as ranger, only better range. Stop pulling things that aren't real.
They were doing more damage because they were going 50 bow, and ranger only 40.


100% this

100% of all that was false... Rangers did around 150-200 less damage at 50 bow with their crit shots, than a scout with 50 bow. Dunno what DAOC you think you remember.. I'm comparing what used to do here in beta to what they are doing now...


I did not play beta here so I can't say. I can only guess that was the case prior to the composite 52 cap being added.

That said, having played daoc on Phoenix for the last year, plus DAoC on Uth 1 and 2, plus DAoC on Genesis, plus DAoC on live starting all the way back in 2001, one constant across ALL of these servers is:

Bow damage never varied class to class in and of itself. A 5.0 speed bow shot by an archer with 300dex and 35 bow spec did the same bow damage. Period.

As a result, rangers have always tended to do less archery damage than scouts because they did not spec as high in the line.
Sun 3 May 2020 1:14 AM by paqdizzle
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 1:09 AM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:58 AM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:03 AM
100% this

100% of all that was false... Rangers did around 150-200 less damage at 50 bow with their crit shots, than a scout with 50 bow. Dunno what DAOC you think you remember.. I'm comparing what used to do here in beta to what they are doing now...


I did not play beta here so I can't say. I can only guess that was the case prior to the composite 52 cap being added.

That said, having played daoc on Phoenix for the last year, plus DAoC on Uth 1 and 2, plus DAoC on Genesis, plus DAoC on live starting all the way back in 2001, one constant across ALL of these servers is:

Bow damage never varied class to class in and of itself. A 5.0 speed bow shot by an archer with 300dex and 35 bow spec did the same bow damage. Period.

As a result, rangers have always tended to do less archery damage than scouts because they did not spec as high in the line.

If you didn't play beta here then why the hell are you trying to argue with me? lmao.... When I do a comparison for example, I've played all archery classes during beta and know for a fact what 50 archery does on each class, so the comparison is based on this game's beta, this server's beta rather... Why would I argue about something I don't know facts on? lol
Sun 3 May 2020 1:18 AM by easytoremember
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:26 AM
I asked you to show me a spec with 50 bow where any archer can be melee viable. You just dodged the challenge and went right on with your bullshit.

Rangers, Hunters, and Scouts are on the same damage table. So if we have the same crappy melee spec we gonna have the same crappy damage. Period.
45 archery
34 stealth
34 spear
40 beastcraft
?

If you don't care about yellow d/q drop beast to 32 for final pet and bump spear to 41, stealth to 35


Riac wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:24 AM
L- fucking-mao
Go ahead give sins bm/merc/zerk dmg while your at it.
I'm told this game is balanced around grouping so make it happen
Sun 3 May 2020 1:19 AM by Parole
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 1:09 AM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:58 AM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:03 AM
100% this

100% of all that was false... Rangers did around 150-200 less damage at 50 bow with their crit shots, than a scout with 50 bow. Dunno what DAOC you think you remember.. I'm comparing what used to do here in beta to what they are doing now...


I did not play beta here so I can't say. I can only guess that was the case prior to the composite 52 cap being added.

That said, having played daoc on Phoenix for the last year, plus DAoC on Uth 1 and 2, plus DAoC on Genesis, plus DAoC on live starting all the way back in 2001, one constant across ALL of these servers is:

Bow damage never varied class to class in and of itself. A 5.0 speed bow shot by an archer with 300dex and 35 bow spec did the same bow damage. Period.

As a result, rangers have always tended to do less archery damage than scouts because they did not spec as high in the line.

Scout has 5.5 bow. I think scouts have slower bows that other archers. Haven't played a ranger or hunter for a long time.
Sun 3 May 2020 1:23 AM by daytonchambers
Parole wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 1:19 AM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 1:09 AM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:58 AM
100% of all that was false... Rangers did around 150-200 less damage at 50 bow with their crit shots, than a scout with 50 bow. Dunno what DAOC you think you remember.. I'm comparing what used to do here in beta to what they are doing now...


I did not play beta here so I can't say. I can only guess that was the case prior to the composite 52 cap being added.

That said, having played daoc on Phoenix for the last year, plus DAoC on Uth 1 and 2, plus DAoC on Genesis, plus DAoC on live starting all the way back in 2001, one constant across ALL of these servers is:

Bow damage never varied class to class in and of itself. A 5.0 speed bow shot by an archer with 300dex and 35 bow spec did the same bow damage. Period.

As a result, rangers have always tended to do less archery damage than scouts because they did not spec as high in the line.

Scout has 5.5 bow. I think scouts have slower bows that other archers. Haven't played a ranger or hunter for a long time.


I used 5.0 as an example because all three archers have access. Hunters don't get a 5.5.
Sun 3 May 2020 1:25 AM by gotwqqd
Centenario wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:18 AM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 4:56 PM
The damage modifier formula will be changed for non-volley archery shots only and no longer cap at min(spec - 1, enemy level + 1) aka no longer cap at 52 in pvp situations. This alone will make a noticable difference between 27 and 50 bow spec while at the same time increasing the bow damage for higher specs without touching
35+15 is the usual spec you reach 50 at RR5, this means that before a 35bow will do as much damage as a 50 bow spec...

Now a 50 bow spec will be counted as 65 bow, and will do what 15*0.5=7.5% more damage.

If you hit your arrows in Rapid fire at 120-150 and in standard at 200-250, you will hit instead at 125-160 and 215-265.

I think archery needs a way bigger buff.

The scout should be the equivalent of the Eldritch:
Slam + spam arrows = stun + spam spells.
The damage (DPS) should be equivalent.

If that is all you get(7.5%) for full spec +15 levels your right
Not enough
Sun 3 May 2020 1:29 AM by gotwqqd
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:26 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:18 AM
Do you bother reading and digesting what’s written.
They will have greater melee given any bow spec.


Do you bother?
I asked you to show me a spec with 50 bow where any archer can be melee viable. You just dodged the challenge and went right on with your bullshit.

Rangers, Hunters, and Scouts are on the same damage table. So if we have the same crappy melee spec we gonna have the same crappy damage. Period.
Use any archery spec you want

You think any of the archers should be equal with bow at a particular spec....the ranger and hunter will be much better at the melee.
And if you are high archery it’s only there to finish off people...
Stop coming up with this “viable” crap.
Sun 3 May 2020 1:29 AM by daytonchambers
easytoremember wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 1:18 AM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:26 AM
I asked you to show me a spec with 50 bow where any archer can be melee viable. You just dodged the challenge and went right on with your bullshit.

Rangers, Hunters, and Scouts are on the same damage table. So if we have the same crappy melee spec we gonna have the same crappy damage. Period.
45 archery
34 stealth
34 spear
40 beastcraft
?

Not 50 archery spec, but that actually might be workable for a higher realm rank Hunter that doesn't care about the back stun in spear. Touche'
Sun 3 May 2020 1:30 AM by Parole
I actually see some random proc going off as a negative thing. I'd rather have something reliable.

I will stay melee anyway. better for my group to have a shield keeping them safe from lilbusta.

Give scouts viper 5 in combat. YES!
Sun 3 May 2020 1:33 AM by daytonchambers
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 1:29 AM
Use any archery spec you want

You think any of the archers should be equal with bow at a particular spec....the ranger and hunter will be much better at the melee.
And if you are high archery it’s only there to finish off people...
Stop coming up with this “viable” crap.


As if viability is a non-factor in a pvp game. o_o

Yes, I think any of the archers should be equal with bow at a particular spec. If I spend the same points I should get the same benefit.
Sun 3 May 2020 1:36 AM by gotwqqd
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 1:33 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 1:29 AM
Use any archery spec you want

You think any of the archers should be equal with bow at a particular spec....the ranger and hunter will be much better at the melee.
And if you are high archery it’s only there to finish off people...
Stop coming up with this “viable” crap.


As if viability is a non-factor in a pvp game. o_o

Yes, I think any of the archers should be equal with bow at a particular spec. If I spend the same points I should get the same benefit.
So the same should apply to scouts and melee

At any bow spec they should excel as well as ranger or hunter with melee...
Sun 3 May 2020 1:41 AM by daytonchambers
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 1:36 AM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 1:33 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 1:29 AM
Use any archery spec you want

You think any of the archers should be equal with bow at a particular spec....the ranger and hunter will be much better at the melee.
And if you are high archery it’s only there to finish off people...
Stop coming up with this “viable” crap.


As if viability is a non-factor in a pvp game. o_o

Yes, I think any of the archers should be equal with bow at a particular spec. If I spend the same points I should get the same benefit.
So the same should apply to scouts and melee

At any bow spec they should excel as well as ranger or hunter with melee...

Scouts have the same main-hand damage as Rangers already. They're on an identical damage table. Just because you specced 29 slash so that you could get the shield snare at 45 does not change that fact.

What is your current Scout spec?
Sun 3 May 2020 3:25 AM by Tubby
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 5:16 PM
Pogmothan wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 5:10 PM
Tubby wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 5:07 PM
Lol! Ns.... disease... these are spells that certain classes have to spec specifically for and sacrifice things to get there. Ridiculous. Welcome archer zergs lol

Couldn't agree more, archers will be everywhere adding on everything...
.
.

.
.
.
Before you guys start freaking out keep in mind these are PROPOSED changes that they are proposing to the community to get feedback on. Yes, NS and Disease are over the top, but not worth freaking out over, since they more than likely won't make it in as a change.


Me freaking out saying it's a ridiculous idea and why lol? Clearly your an archer and will do anything to get this ability. I'm not freaking out I couldnt care less just stating it's a ridiculous proposition. I laugh at potential changes like that it will never Happen and if it does it will be like the recent crit changes changend the burned into the ground lol
Sun 3 May 2020 4:47 AM by Agent7
I play a scout, and I would be cautious about buffing archery. The underwhelming damage is offset by the high range. With decent dps + range, it just takes a few archers to really wreak havoc on a single target right out of stealth, in a very wide area. If there's any DPS increase, it should be in the form of a shorter range, just like the point blank in live.
Sun 3 May 2020 6:10 AM by easytoremember
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 11:31 PM
[...] and for penetrating arrow to be just that... and arrow that penetrates, the edit to Pen arrow being halfed is still putting it in the *useless* bag.. Who in their right mind would use a critshot on a target with a BT.. Their hardest hitting attack... just to get halfed to a standard shot.. Why not, break bubble with a normal shot, then re-critshot? instead you'd rather have them notice they just lost their BT AND a bit of health? so now they are aware they got shot, and you have to wait 10 seconds to re-critshot for full damage!? unreal.. a waste of time.
Not so fast~
That standard shot just pierced the dude's bubble. Instead of no damage no matter what you're now able to open with the damage of a standard shot.
Firing a shot and hoping they won't realize their BT got eaten as you load your critshot is a gamble, and even when you win that gamble your target has probably moved away or towards you and, ironically, it's because he didn't notice you.

It also means that targets constantly fleeing on their BT being broken to recast it and return now recieve some damage instead of being tickled by 1 rapidshot before they leave range.
Sun 3 May 2020 6:43 AM by Cadebrennus
Agent7 wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 4:47 AM
I play a scout, and I would be cautious about buffing archery. The underwhelming damage is offset by the high range. With decent dps + range, it just takes a few archers to really wreak havoc on a single target right out of stealth, in a very wide area. If there's any DPS increase, it should be in the form of a shorter range, just like the point blank in live.

Do a /groundset 700. That's the Scout's advantage over Caster DDs.
Sun 3 May 2020 6:53 AM by Cadebrennus
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:18 AM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:13 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 12:09 AM
Why not?
It’s what you are asking for in another thread.

So you would have equal bow(or more because of DA)
and still superior melee.
Anyone wanting having a superior archer would still be better off with a ranger or hunter


Please let me know of this magic ranger spec where I can go 50 archery and still be melee viable. It's not a thing, dude.

That being said, if a hunter or ranger WANTS to be a shooting spec as the cost of their melee they should have that option.
Do you bother reading and digesting what’s written.
They will have greater melee given any bow spec.

On average the typical Ranger who specs 35+ in Archery will at most, get +30 damage per swing over what a Scout does. That's assuming 18 CD and 36+ PF. That's not really not that much "greater melee" than you think, especially considering how much defense and + to block you can get from a speccable Shield, which if played right can reduce more than 30 damage per enemy swing, on average.
Sun 3 May 2020 7:20 AM by Noashakra
Maybe during the beta here the ranger and hunter did less dmg with the bow (because you know it's a beta and they test things Iguess? Even if I doubt that and I am sure you have no proof of it).
But on live and since the beta, the hunters rangers and scouts where doing the same dmg with the bows (the scout just had access to slower bows with better ranger and where going 45/50 in bow).
So quit your BS. If you change bow, you change it for everyone.

Facts > your feelings

and quit your BS of 200 dmg with your bow, it's what I do with 14 (because if you want to be good in melee, it's the sacrifice you have to make).
Sun 3 May 2020 7:49 AM by Loki
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 4:56 PM
Archery changes / buffs have to be handled carefully as a noticable increase in archers and especially archer zergs would be a lot worse than having useless archery, therefore the behavior after these changes will be watched closely.
You mean, like what happened when you gave scouts spammable root ? Every infil out there has one scout with them, minimum.
Any archery change should start with removing that shield style and go from there. You cant buff scouts twice, it's insane how much utility they have in stealth zergs, thanks to you.
Sun 3 May 2020 8:30 AM by thirian24
Loki wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 7:49 AM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 4:56 PM
Archery changes / buffs have to be handled carefully as a noticable increase in archers and especially archer zergs would be a lot worse than having useless archery, therefore the behavior after these changes will be watched closely.
You mean, like what happened when you gave scouts spammable root ? Every infil out there has one scout with them, minimum.
Any archery change should start with removing that shield style and go from there. You cant buff scouts twice, it's insane how much utility they have in stealth zergs, thanks to you.

Agreed
Sun 3 May 2020 9:39 AM by Khogor
Asassin winning against Scout...lol l2p noob i am better then you.

Asassin loosing against Scout ...lol OP Nerf.

If you dont Know how to counter that root , it is Not in the enemy class beeing OP. I agree in the Missing Timer beeing too strong.


These Changes only force the Scout more into Camping and zerg because still the cant compete solo.

Change the root Style , buffs for Scout . Slight ! Dam increase. No evading critshots that often.

The effect in the crit isnt the right Point to Start in think.

The Dam incease affects all 3 archers ..which IS good ...Scout still weaker ..still missing buffs ..still 20+ lower stats.

Changes need improvements here.
Sun 3 May 2020 10:19 AM by Cadebrennus
Khogor wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 9:39 AM
Asassin winning against Scout...lol l2p noob i am better then you.

Asassin loosing against Scout ...lol OP Nerf.

If you dont Know how to counter that root , it is Not in the enemy class beeing OP. I agree in the Missing Timer beeing too strong.


These Changes only force the Scout more into Camping and zerg because still the cant compete solo.

Change the root Style , buffs for Scout . Slight ! Dam increase. No evading critshots that often.

The effect in the crit isnt the right Point to Start in think.

The Dam incease affects all 3 archers ..which IS good ...Scout still weaker ..still missing buffs ..still 20+ lower stats.

Changes need improvements here.

The bigger buffs aren't worth the spec points and the sacrifice to other lines IMO
Sun 3 May 2020 10:45 AM by Khogor
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 10:19 AM
Khogor wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 9:39 AM
Asassin winning against Scout...lol l2p noob i am better then you.

Asassin loosing against Scout ...lol OP Nerf.

If you dont Know how to counter that root , it is Not in the enemy class beeing OP. I agree in the Missing Timer beeing too strong.


These Changes only force the Scout more into Camping and zerg because still the cant compete solo.

Change the root Style , buffs for Scout . Slight ! Dam increase. No evading critshots that often.

The effect in the crit isnt the right Point to Start in think.

The Dam incease affects all 3 archers ..which IS good ...Scout still weaker ..still missing buffs ..still 20+ lower stats.

Changes need improvements here.

The bigger buffs aren't worth the spec points and the sacrifice to other lines IMO

Ranger / Hunter dont Go Buff +Moa anymore ? OK my mistake here ore misunderstanding ...found it awesome my norse Hunter more dex than Sara Scout 😂
Sun 3 May 2020 11:06 AM by Centenario
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 1:33 AM
Yes, I think any of the archers should be equal with bow at a particular spec. If I spend the same points I should get the same benefit.

The Longbow (only accessible to Scout) has a bonus range and damage, cause its considered Heavy Weapon, like the Polearm or the Celtic Spear, they have around -.5% increased damage per spec point on top of the already -.5% damage of regular spec. They also have the Two Hand bonus like every other bow.

Spec Bonus: 0.5% per point
Two-Hand Bonus: 10% +0.5% per point
Heavy Bonus: 0.5% per point

So a 35+15 Ranger will have 60% damage bonus , while a scout will have 85% damage bonus.
Sun 3 May 2020 11:16 AM by Siouxsie
Please make Crit shot:

* un-evadable
* un-blockable
* un-parryable
* penetrate bladeturn of ANY type
Sun 3 May 2020 11:18 AM by chois
Everybody says damage equal blabla...yeah on the paper it s right but in the game not at all, scouts have no spec buff so u can say what u want but the damage can t be the same, and the arguments for heavy bow is false too, rangers have acces to 5.5 bow, so u can say what u want or what u can imagine but scout are the bigger underdog here. If the 3 archers would have acces to the same buff line than ranger at this points u can compare but not here.
Sun 3 May 2020 11:28 AM by Siouxsie
Loki wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 7:49 AM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 4:56 PM
Archery changes / buffs have to be handled carefully as a noticable increase in archers and especially archer zergs would be a lot worse than having useless archery, therefore the behavior after these changes will be watched closely.
You mean, like what happened when you gave scouts spammable root ? Every infil out there has one scout with them, minimum.
Any archery change should start with removing that shield style and go from there. You cant buff scouts twice, it's insane how much utility they have in stealth zergs, thanks to you.

Combine that with Minstrel having on-par stealth with archers and it's a recipe for disaster.
Gimp Minstrel's stealth. You're supposed to be able to see them from far away because they shouldn't get stealth bonus or mastery of stealth or any of that shit
The stealth mechanics in this game have broken things so bad and tilted EVERYTHING in Albion's favor.
Sun 3 May 2020 11:36 AM by Centenario
chois wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 11:18 AM
Everybody says damage equal blabla...yeah on the paper it s right but in the game not at all, scouts have no spec buff so u can say what u want but the damage can t be the same, and the arguments for heavy bow is false too, rangers have acces to 5.5 bow, so u can say what u want or what u can imagine but scout are the bigger underdog here. If the 3 archers would have acces to the same buff line than ranger at this points u can compare but not here.

I never talked about speed, I talked about the LongBow, which has increased range and increased damage, like a polearm.

Also two points here:
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 4:56 PM
The damage modifier formula will be changed for non-volley archery shots only and no longer cap at min(spec - 1, enemy level + 1) aka no longer cap at 52 in pvp situations. This alone will make a noticable difference between 27 and 50 bow spec while at the same time increasing the bow damage for higher specs without touching the current 27 bow damage.
Penetrating shot 2 will allow 50% of the damage to go through against self casted bt.

The damage capping at min(spec - 1, enemy level + 1) should be a bug fix, this only applies to non-advanced lines, like thrust, slash, crush, sword, etc... but all advanced weapon lines like bow lines or polearm or two-handed (alb/hib) have the growth continuing past 50 ot 52.

Finally Penetrating shot used to be an ability that you'd cast from your bar like crit shot.
On casters with BT, you'd have to use the penetrating shot to engage the target you'd do damage to them only if you had used the penetrating shot, which dealt damage and bursted the BT.
Now its a passive on Phoenix, like all my shots are penetrating?? Doesn't look like its working anyway. I don't have a castable ability.
Sun 3 May 2020 12:07 PM by jk123
Finally!
The Gods, err the devs, do still listen also to the archers needs.
Thank you first of all for that direly needed consideration.

1. More Dmg by higher Spec through adjustment of the dmg formula
=Good change, not too bold, but solid. That's what the approach should be, as you mentioned.

2. Penetration Arrow 2 will do 50% dmg, when penetrating even self-bt
=Good change, especially bc it helps restoring the paper-scissor-rock-dynamic between caster-archer-assassin-tank classes
-Assassins will be likely preying even more on archers, knowing that many of them will be weaker in melee than before and thus easy rps.
-Tanks will still be very hard to overcome by archers, even more so, bc many archers will be less capable in melee while speccing more into archery.
- Casters will have to react quicker to win against an attacking archer now, it remains to be seen, if the little tweaks to archery will be enough to regain a paper-scissor-dynamic for these archetypes though

3. Critshot with a special effect at 45 spec in an archery line
The idea to give the archer a tool to hinder the target to get out of range as fast as usual, is a good means to augment the archer's ability to kill an oponent in an ambush situation, while it doesn't augment overall dmg.

Archers getting disease would end up in higher disease rates in any kind of battle however, which is an annoyance for everyone. It would help Hunters the most when kiting with the pet. If the disease effect lasted only for a very short time like 10 seconds, it could reduce a lot of the annoyance, but would have side-effects like introducing a new kind of disease, that isn't worth to be cured, bc it lasts too shortly. This would add a new random factor to grp and zerg-warfare, when healing is suddenly halved due to an archers critshot-attack.

The same annoyance for everyone in the game like with a disease-effect of the 45 critshot would occur with an added Nearsight-effect.
Imagine archers nearsighting the enemy healers everytime.
It would also impact hybrid-tanks in a serious way and ofc archers themselves. A very short-timed Nearsight would add a new random factor to all kind of fights, when hit targets cannot act out their intended ranged action, which is maybe not too far from an effect, that a severe hit like critshot also should have. At least it wouldn't effect the amount of healing received like disease would have done.
A brief NS-effect could be considered, but it mustn't be like the known long durations from the spells. It would resemble a situation, where you got hit that heavily, that you'd feel disorientated for some moments. Such an effect would have the benefit of working also against instant spells of an archers target.

A slight snare effect like prevent flight would be good at achieving a small hinderance for the target for a brief time. It must be assured, that this effect cannot be applied permanently. But the effect must be calculable for the archer. It can't be a random proc, it has to be applied reliably.

To really make archery effective in those archer vs. caster situations you would also need a component/ability likesureshot.
That is, if the Nearsight-component doesn't get implemented accompanied by a snare-tool also. It wouldn't be detrimental though, if all three abilities were available tools for archers to choose from. Make the snare attached to the crit, give the archery lines a special normal shot with a short ns-ability and give it a sureshot, all placed high in the bow lines.
Since the archer lacks moc or quickcast the slight dmg increase of 1.+2. wouldn't put the archer into the postion to kill any decent caster, because he wouldn't have the tools to keep the upper hand.


4. Prevent Stealth-zerging
In order to prevent stealth-zerging, there could be a system in place, that would penalize it via reducing rps in such a severe manner, that stealth zerging becomes unattractive to most. It could scale with the number of stealthers grouped together, starting at a certain number. And it could penalize adding stealthers ungrouped, if there are too many in respect of enemy numbers in a certain area.
I just don't know, if this is technically achievable.

5. Self-Buff-Lines of Archery Classes
- Hunter's beastcraft-line lacks some utiliy; s/c pet-buff should be instant like on live, so that it really can be applied to the instant pet in a battle situation;
most importantly charm-spells are utterly useless; Suggestion: put useful charm-spells, but maybe also pet-buff-spells into the high 40-50 area in beastcraft
- Scout has no access to self-buffs (d/q being the most relevant), which is a problem in a world of nerfed charges; Suggestion: Grant a scout-only item-drop from the dragon (the bow) with a 75pt d/c charge
- Ranger's top dmg-add-spell is at 9.4 dps weaker than the 11.3 dps-charge, while not stacking (which is good): same with Thane's.
Suggestion: Introduce a lvl 50 buff with 11.3 dps-value (same for Thanes)


Looking forward to any changes!

Cheers, jk123
Sun 3 May 2020 12:22 PM by Khogor
I love seeing the argument "but in combination with xyz the scout is too strong".

What do you want ? Nerf a class into the ground you can kill it 1v8 ? It is like saying nerf bard because in smallman you have CC , Heal Endu ..so on.
Then just let me get my stuff and rp to another toon and delete all stealth play xD

The Bow dam deserves a buff , 3,9 sec for round 495 dam , 3,2 for round 240 , 1,6 for 122 . (point of optimizing for sure), there seems to be no dam source which in this delay deals such a low damage.

Ranger with 14 points autotrain into bow still does 4xx crit dam . Hunter was like just slightly higher dam but 3,6 /3,0/1,5 sec draw time...depending on the bow.(Celt ranger , norse hunter) Buffs + moa = again 20+ higher stats.

To high % on pen arrow will leade to a lot on frustrated casters beeing assistet down by archers , but perhaps you shouldnt stand first line in keep fights anyway.

Critshot used to have a % of penetrating bubbl ? , increasing with higher specc. Perhabs same would work for the critshot beeing evadet blocked so on.

Next point my asassin friends will tell ....you are archer you dont deserve to kill anything in melee. Point for you guys but dont let us forget, there was skillable mos
back in the days to give an archer the chance of getting 1-2 shot sof till melee starts ....then we are talking about an asassin 70% hp against an archer and the asassin trying to outdam the hp he already lost. Those tools are missing here.
Sun 3 May 2020 1:50 PM by Cadebrennus
Khogor wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 10:45 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 10:19 AM
Khogor wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 9:39 AM
Asassin winning against Scout...lol l2p noob i am better then you.

Asassin loosing against Scout ...lol OP Nerf.

If you dont Know how to counter that root , it is Not in the enemy class beeing OP. I agree in the Missing Timer beeing too strong.


These Changes only force the Scout more into Camping and zerg because still the cant compete solo.

Change the root Style , buffs for Scout . Slight ! Dam increase. No evading critshots that often.

The effect in the crit isnt the right Point to Start in think.

The Dam incease affects all 3 archers ..which IS good ...Scout still weaker ..still missing buffs ..still 20+ lower stats.

Changes need improvements here.

The bigger buffs aren't worth the spec points and the sacrifice to other lines IMO

Ranger / Hunter dont Go Buff +Moa anymore ? OK my mistake here ore misunderstanding ...found it awesome my norse Hunter more dex than Sara Scout 😂

No shit. That much is obvious. At what cost though?
Sun 3 May 2020 2:49 PM by gotwqqd
They need to fix the core of many problems.

Increase detection range of enemies dependent on how many are in a specific range of one another
Sun 3 May 2020 3:51 PM by Khogor
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 1:50 PM
Khogor wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 10:45 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 10:19 AM
The bigger buffs aren't worth the spec points and the sacrifice to other lines IMO

Ranger / Hunter dont Go Buff +Moa anymore ? OK my mistake here ore misunderstanding ...found it awesome my norse Hunter more dex than Sara Scout 😂

No shit. That much is obvious. At what cost though?

Getting Melee Swing capped, faster Draw speed , more HP with Just 1ra 😂? Think its quit cheape.
Sun 3 May 2020 4:09 PM by Riac
Khogor wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 3:51 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 1:50 PM
Khogor wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 10:45 AM
Ranger / Hunter dont Go Buff +Moa anymore ? OK my mistake here ore misunderstanding ...found it awesome my norse Hunter more dex than Sara Scout 😂

No shit. That much is obvious. At what cost though?

Getting Melee Swing capped, faster Draw speed , more HP with Just 1ra 😂? Think its quit cheape.
and it works on combi pots, which is straight dumb.
Sun 3 May 2020 10:19 PM by idknemore
pls no disease, I beg you op
Mon 4 May 2020 12:56 AM by Quathan
I must admit I'm a little disappointed with these changes. Archery has been on the table for so long for upcoming changes and now its finally here and it's just some small adjustments that seemed cooked up in 5min(Sorry for neglecting your work).
I had hoped for a custom system that would make Archery the primary choice for their class instead of using melee weapons.

Don't see dmg be on 52 being worth it when bow damage already being low.

To begin with, it would be nice to bring bow dmg up so it can be compared to other ranged classes(casters).
I know there is going to complains about this but people tend to forget, that just because the Archer has stealth as a tool. It does not have all the other tools that casters have.
Hell, they could even make a mechanic that did so the even longer you stay out of stealth the more dmg you do if the hiding part is such a big deal. or completely remove stealth and give them other tools so people don't get disgusted every time they see you.

I'm pretty sick with the general feud between people that dislike stealths and people that like... I would love to see an archery era where they are welcomed into a grp either for their tools or their dmg.
Mon 4 May 2020 1:13 AM by Riac
Quathan wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 12:56 AM
I must admit I'm a little disappointed with these changes. Archery has been on the table for so long for upcoming changes and now its finally here and it's just some small adjustments that seemed cooked up in 5min(Sorry for neglecting your work).
I had hoped for a custom system that would make Archery the primary choice for their class instead of using melee weapons.

Don't see dmg be on 52 being worth it when bow damage already being low.

To begin with, it would be nice to bring bow dmg up so it can be compared to other ranged classes(casters).
I know there is going to complains about this but people tend to forget, that just because the Archer has stealth as a tool. It does not have all the other tools that casters have.
Hell, they could even make a mechanic that did so the even longer you stay out of stealth the more dmg you do if the hiding part is such a big deal. or completely remove stealth and give them other tools so people don't get disgusted every time they see you.

I'm pretty sick with the general feud between people that dislike stealths and people that like... I would love to see an archery era where they are welcomed into a grp either for their tools or their dmg.
ppl like this are dumb. stealth casters is exactly what ppl do not want.
Mon 4 May 2020 2:00 AM by Raagnarr
Oh QQ moar..."archers will be adding on everything"
..who gives a shit? Why take 3 characters and make their intended purpose useless?? Let people play characters they want. There's no rules against adding, the game is about killing enemies and taking their relics, not a competition of epeen growth. Smfh...bunch of grown ass men acting like 10 year old girls.
Mon 4 May 2020 2:46 AM by Riac
Raagnarr wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 2:00 AM
Oh QQ moar..."archers will be adding on everything"
..who gives a shit? Why take 3 characters and make their intended purpose useless?? Let people play characters they want. There's no rules against adding, the game is about killing enemies and taking their relics, not a competition of epeen growth. Smfh...bunch of grown ass men acting like 10 year old girls.
no one likes archers outside of archers.
Mon 4 May 2020 6:44 AM by Noashakra
Riac wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 2:46 AM
Raagnarr wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 2:00 AM
Oh QQ moar..."archers will be adding on everything"
..who gives a shit? Why take 3 characters and make their intended purpose useless?? Let people play characters they want. There's no rules against adding, the game is about killing enemies and taking their relics, not a competition of epeen growth. Smfh...bunch of grown ass men acting like 10 year old girls.
no one likes archers outside of archers.

I can make the same argument about sins. So who cares.
Mon 4 May 2020 7:10 AM by inoeth
bye bye solo play
archer zerg here we come lol
Mon 4 May 2020 7:29 AM by Riac
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 6:44 AM
Riac wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 2:46 AM
Raagnarr wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 2:00 AM
Oh QQ moar..."archers will be adding on everything"
..who gives a shit? Why take 3 characters and make their intended purpose useless?? Let people play characters they want. There's no rules against adding, the game is about killing enemies and taking their relics, not a competition of epeen growth. Smfh...bunch of grown ass men acting like 10 year old girls.
no one likes archers outside of archers.

I can make the same argument about sins. So who cares.
being a sin i care, and i think there are far more sins that dont add everything moving like archers.
Mon 4 May 2020 7:33 AM by Raagnarr
Easy fix...cap the group size of stealth characters. Another fix they are intending to address. Say group cap is 3...people who decide to have 7 (3) man groups in an area trying to circumvent the fix can feel the ban hammer for a few day, fuk em
Mon 4 May 2020 7:35 AM by Raagnarr
And who gives a shit if you don't like a class? That makes you entitled to try to ruin it for people that do? Silly little simple minded individuals who think they are something special in the world..
Mon 4 May 2020 7:43 AM by Riac
Raagnarr wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 7:35 AM
And who gives a shit if you don't like a class? That makes you entitled to try to ruin it for people that do? Silly little simple minded individuals who think they are something special in the world..
i suppose that if the majority of the server didnt like the leeching bullshit of archers. those would be the ppl that give a shit., and if they are the majority you may by in the "fucked" category lol.
Mon 4 May 2020 7:49 AM by Raagnarr
/sigh. Which brings me back to my first point. Leaching is a made up term by self diagnosed elitist people. This game was designed in a way that you kill enemies.
Mon 4 May 2020 7:51 AM by Riac
Raagnarr wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 7:49 AM
/sigh. Which brings me back to my first point. Leaching is a made up term by self diagnosed elitist people. This game was designed in a way that you kill enemies.
well if these self diagnosed ppl incoporate a large amount of the population, its probablymeans it is preffered and you are still the minority. this is best demonstrated when 8 mans pull off each other and kill noobs like you lol.
Mon 4 May 2020 7:53 AM by Raagnarr
Hmm where and when did I say i was an archer? Simple sack of useless ey?
Mon 4 May 2020 7:55 AM by Riac
Raagnarr wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 7:53 AM
Hmm where and when did I say i was an archer? Simple sack of useless ey?
considering the context of the thread i feel like it not outside the bounds of assumption. either way, you can be a noob adder of some other class, the fix is still the same. pull off and kill the noob.
eventually you will lean or keep being dumb and feeding rps. either way, its all good lol.
Mon 4 May 2020 9:20 AM by Quathan
Riac wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 7:51 AM
Raagnarr wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 7:49 AM
/sigh. Which brings me back to my first point. Leaching is a made up term by self diagnosed elitist people. This game was designed in a way that you kill enemies.
well if these self diagnosed ppl incoporate a large amount of the population, its probablymeans it is preffered and you are still the minority. this is best demonstrated when 8 mans pull off each other and kill noobs like you lol.

It is the same 8 people that kill all the solo and smallman... They do it because they can and not because its fair play... It comes down to the same conclusion why the stealths add... They want realm points.

And people only tend to group up If they can't do anything on their own. Its the whole point of zergs.

So your arguments for not buffing a class there is pretty weak.
Mon 4 May 2020 1:17 PM by Cadebrennus
Riac seems like a perfectly reasonable person....

... except when Archers and Archery are mentioned. Then this happens...
.
.
.

.
.
Mon 4 May 2020 2:31 PM by Sepplord
it's not only archery, but it's most obvious with that
Mon 4 May 2020 3:12 PM by Symptomettes
Riac wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 7:29 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 6:44 AM
Riac wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 2:46 AM
no one likes archers outside of archers.

I can make the same argument about sins. So who cares.
being a sin i care, and i think there are far more sins that dont add everything moving like archers.

Ofc you will care. But since sins have the tools to play solo and kill everything by themsleves your point make litteraly no sense at all... Try to play solo archer and you will see if you can have the luxury to not add others to get at least some rps in one day of rvr. Instead give some real idea, stop posting your bullshit here.

I think the archery change will resolve nothing about the current problems... I don't want know how you came up with that tbh. I'm playing a scoot and i think the last change (45 shield root was already a bad idea). But it's even worst ! this 45 skill with snare / disease or even ns... WTF !!!

Why do you keep trying to make some new things when you can just take some of the live idea to make it better and more balance ? The only thing you did right was allowed 52+ skill to give more bonus damage. Why not remooving path/bc and put buffs in archery ? That will allow people to gain more spec points to put in archery and having 52+ in archery skill (with that you kill two birds in one stone and you have your increase archery overall damage up for everyone without giving a bullshit tool at 45 that make NO SENSE AT ALL ). it gives a little increase damage in melee for hunt / ranger and give self buff for scoot (that needs it to be balance in comparison of other archers). And please remoove the 45 shield root at the same time.

And at the same time if archers can be more efficient as a solo class you will probably get less stealther zerg... Because tbh most people who play archers grp with others because they can't do shit by themselves....
Mon 4 May 2020 3:26 PM by piero
Blessed words
Mon 4 May 2020 4:02 PM by Khogor
Just right now the cool PvP event shows me exactly where my problem is, apart from my not given high player skill.

Shild Tank : with som luck first shot lands after that all is blocked, (active block ok),so kite...you can do this all night long if you dont do big mistakes and the
tank "accepts" the fight after like 3 houres win for you. More likely add but ok

Light Tank : this is where you can get the kills . If you kite properly no mistakes , light tanks are the more likely kills

Asassins : I stacked a little high here and took on Mixalis (hope name correct ) , poor guy didn´t have purge up ...or not even used it
He took 1 Crit from stealth , slam (not purge) another crit, root style , not a single dagger was thrown. Finally the like 3-4 hit I took and the dots got me so low
he got into melee and killed me with like few hits.

Caster with pet , Minst , Thane , Champ ....dont even try. Even Caster will run away because damage is too low.

Last fight was a Skald, fight look very long , the Skald didn´t run away (maybe because easey RP) , normal shot thrust arrow 14x dam. Each of the Skald DD´s outdamed
my normal shot. The few arrows I got of were outhealed by pots and regg song.


So which option do you have ? Be the adder everyone wants to see in an archer !? Post forums for sure
Mon 4 May 2020 5:04 PM by Basur
Hi
I also play a scout, and I don't need any crazy effects like illness or anything. I played a scout on Avalon, I played a scout on uthgard, but there was no harm like here. The Hunter and Ranger also did more damage. We are archer classes and just want to do damage to the bow and not just carry it around with us because it is part of the equipment.
If you want to change the effects then they also have the range that the bow has. It is of no use to me that the bow has a range of 2500 and the effect on the bow is only 1500.
And another word to those who moan constantly for sneaking zerg. Go online, there is always zerg on the go, no matter if midds hibbs or albs, or just don't sneak up? Have you ever noticed that when a sneak was discovered, everyone nearby, whole groups and more pounce on him. Well and we sneak no matter is fun
Mon 4 May 2020 6:57 PM by nkeplinger1
The only thing I am taking from this thread in regards to Phoenix DAOC is that it's OK to add while playing any other class in the game.. just not an archer class. Got it. Its also acceptable to zerg people into the ground on this server unless you're playing a stealth class. Get the fuck over yourselves. If stealth classes weren't intended, they wouldn't exist.
Mon 4 May 2020 7:01 PM by gotwqqd
Riac wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 7:51 AM
Raagnarr wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 7:49 AM
/sigh. Which brings me back to my first point. Leaching is a made up term by self diagnosed elitist people. This game was designed in a way that you kill enemies.
well if these self diagnosed ppl incoporate a large amount of the population, its probablymeans it is preffered and you are still the minority. this is best demonstrated when 8 mans pull off each other and kill noobs like you lol.
Nah....just crying the loudest
Mon 4 May 2020 8:32 PM by Riac
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 7:01 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 7:51 AM
Raagnarr wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 7:49 AM
/sigh. Which brings me back to my first point. Leaching is a made up term by self diagnosed elitist people. This game was designed in a way that you kill enemies.
well if these self diagnosed ppl incoporate a large amount of the population, its probablymeans it is preffered and you are still the minority.this is best demonstrated when 8 mans pull off each other and kill noobs like you lol.
Nah....just crying the loudest
i like how you didn refute the point and just insist im crying when ppls action prove otherwise. by ppls actions im referring to the bold and underlined portion of the previous post.
Tue 5 May 2020 12:45 AM by Darwar
The amount of hypocrisy that spills forth from people never seems to amaze me. All the crying comes down to, You died in rvr cause others didn't play by your rules. SO many whiners think the game should only be played in the manner in which they envision it to be played.

People XP gank, people add 1v1, small-man zerg solos, groups zerg small-man and solos, and BGs zerg em all. And all the way up the line people spew forth their bs about it. News flash, been like this since 2001 and it's not gonna change. Yeah I know some will respect fights and what not and that is all well and good, but lets face reality.

Now, to the topic at hand. As a scout myself, I think this is a decent balance with not being over the top while giving some reasons to spec higher archery.

- I'm glad we are keeping the old archery system.
- I am very glad volley dmg won't be increased.
- Half dmg on penetrate arrow 2 seems reasonable
- I don't think near-sight proc is good cause we already have some range advantage on casters.
- I worry a ranged snare/root would be unfair to light tanks/hybrids
- To me forget procs, and just remove un-stealth chance on crit pull

- Vorlund
Tue 5 May 2020 2:09 AM by easytoremember
Symptomettes wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 3:12 PM
Why not remooving path/bc and put buffs in archery ?
No


Symptomettes wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 3:12 PM
That will allow people to gain more spec points to put in archery and having 52+ in archery skill (with that you kill two birds in one stone and you have your increase archery overall damage up for everyone
The point is going high into archery inhibits the ability to spec into melee and buffs. Because the scout lacks a buff line they have more points to invest into weapon/shield.


Symptomettes wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 3:12 PM
without giving a bullshit tool at 45 that make NO SENSE AT ALL ).
Didn't want it either way- removing it without even changing anything would be welcome


Symptomettes wrote: ↑
Mon 4 May 2020 3:12 PM
it gives a little increase damage in melee for hunt / ranger and give self buff for scoot (that needs it to be balance in comparison of other archers).
imo what really screws the scout over is the draw time not modifying damage; the same shot with cap 1.5 speed bonuses does no less damage than a 2.8 draw without (not to be mistaken with bow speed).
The current setup is DEX boosts damage and QUI boosts draw speed without decreased shot damage which leaves the 20 stat gap in d/q significant. Even so I would not give scout self d/q. Keep the classes distinct

Merging pathfinding into archery benefits the ranger the most as they are the toughest to disperse points into all lines, followed by the hunter. A scout with self d/q and 50 shield/50 weapon/50 archery would still suck
Tue 5 May 2020 7:54 AM by Moumoule
A snare or disease effect on critical shot is a good idea. The critical thing, is the duration and the effect. Not too long (5 sec ? 10 sec) and not too strong (15 % ? 20 % ?) Single target or AE (maybe too strong) ?
Tue 5 May 2020 8:15 AM by Centenario
This is a screenshot from around 1.65




Aura of incineration is the Wizard self-bubble.
We can see that the shot penetrates the bubble and does its damage.

I believe this is a good bug fix to have the shot penetrate the bubble and do its damage; I have more sources that prove that it used to be the case.

For Damage, I see here: ( https://web.archive.org/web/20040609133104/http://www.angelfire.com:80/tn3/caster/)
That damage for Critshot I believe is between 500-1000 even for Rangers. (Should be up to 1200 for scout around 20-25% more, I suppose due to the heavy weapon bonus)
This is damage before the archery fix.

When people are at base AF hard cap:
- 500 for cloth
- 635 for mail
I believe that damage should be, if all the archer's stats are maxed (5.5 100% qual bow, 330Dex, around 65 bow):
Hitting at 125% of cap.
This would mean that on cloth and leather it will hit for 90% damage, on studded at 90% of cap, on mail 72% of cap, this is all before arrows damage change.

So 90% of cap should be around 700 dmg for ranger and 840dmg for scout, before archery nerf.

Now we can decide to nerf archery, but by how much. At the moment it has been nerfed by 50%, so a 100% damage boost would negate the nerf.
So we can try and boost archery between 0% and 100%.
Apply the 20% heavy weapon bonus.
Debug the penetrating self-BT issue.

I dont think archery needs anything else at the moment than pure physical damage boost.
Tue 5 May 2020 9:08 AM by Saroi
Centenario wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 8:15 AM
This is a screenshot from around 1.65




Aura of incineration is the Wizard self-bubble.
We can see that the shot penetrates the bubble and does its damage.

I believe this is a good bug fix to have the shot penetrate the bubble and do its damage; I have more sources that prove that it used to be the case.

For Damage, I see here: ( https://web.archive.org/web/20040609133104/http://www.angelfire.com:80/tn3/caster/)
That damage for Critshot I believe is between 500-1000 even for Rangers. (Should be up to 1200 for scout around 20-25% more, I suppose due to the heavy weapon bonus)
This is damage before the archery fix.

When people are at base AF hard cap:
- 500 for cloth
- 635 for mail
I believe that damage should be, if all the archer's stats are maxed (5.5 100% qual bow, 330Dex, around 65 bow):
Hitting at 125% of cap.
This would mean that on cloth and leather it will hit for 90% damage, on studded at 90% of cap, on mail 72% of cap, this is all before arrows damage change.

So 90% of cap should be around 700 dmg for ranger and 840dmg for scout, before archery nerf.

Now we can decide to nerf archery, but by how much. At the moment it has been nerfed by 50%, so a 100% damage boost would negate the nerf.
So we can try and boost archery between 0% and 100%.
Apply the 20% heavy weapon bonus.
Debug the penetrating self-BT issue.

I dont think archery needs anything else at the moment than pure physical damage boost.

I don't think Screenshots from low level has anything to say about 50 RvR.
Tue 5 May 2020 10:32 AM by jwalker
Really disappointed in these "extra careful changes" (throwing 2 tiny bones at archers...)

So
- no compensation for the loss of damage due to vulnerability change for hybrids (comp 52 bow), which was a custom change archers suffered from most
- no fix to the stupid unstealth chance on crit shot - make another crit shot at 30 that has 0%. It's just a random chance, not ever cool to be unstealthed 20% of the time
- opportunity to move long shot into the bow line with lower recasts NOT used. I mean this is the way to give a bubble break and utility ability, which mostly helps solos
- no quick cast like ability to give archers a chance to fire one more after being interrupted (by dd reproc, charges or just one of the 1000 instant spells)
- no fix to help hybrids, instead focus is on full bow ... currently we have solo melee ranger/hunter or zerg full bow users and few hybrid spec archers/hunters/scouts. I'm probably one of the few hybrid rangers and a small buff in damage and especially a boost in bow utility including spec 30-35 would certainly help^^

I played a month on live now - I know a lot of people hate that new archery. But i must confess, after the last balance patch they handled it quite nice. For example they implemented an "uninterruptable" quick draw time point blank shot with a 1.5 minutes recast that boost your melee skill. That is a really good mechanic to encourage hybrid spec vs. full melee (adds another bow shot in melee fight and boosts the melee for a short while as well).

Look at last week rps: there are 10! Archers (Hunter, Ranger, Scouts) in the Top 250. Assassins have 42.
Tue 5 May 2020 10:43 AM by jwalker
Centenario wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 11:06 AM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Sun 3 May 2020 1:33 AM
Yes, I think any of the archers should be equal with bow at a particular spec. If I spend the same points I should get the same benefit.

The Longbow (only accessible to Scout) has a bonus range and damage, cause its considered Heavy Weapon, like the Polearm or the Celtic Spear, they have around -.5% increased damage per spec point on top of the already -.5% damage of regular spec. They also have the Two Hand bonus like every other bow.

Spec Bonus: 0.5% per point
Two-Hand Bonus: 10% +0.5% per point
Heavy Bonus: 0.5% per point

So a 35+15 Ranger will have 60% damage bonus , while a scout will have 85% damage bonus.

I have heard a lot about daoc mechanics but I have yet never heard of "heavy Bonus" ... where did you get that and is it real or just made up by you?

What you might mean is slow weapon bonus which is
Slow Weapon bonus: 94% + base weapon speed * 3% (so 5.5 bows deals 110.5%)
However, this applies to ALL weapons and NOT specific for bows or polearms. In old times, these weapon were just typically the slowest but on phoenix this is not true at all.
Tue 5 May 2020 10:56 AM by gruenesschaf
The damage modifier change will be handled slightly differently, it'll be a separate multiplicator that depends on your modified spec based on your level.

Numbers are assuming normal shot (it won't apply to volley but will apply to RF/Crit shot) you are rr5 (hence starting at 1+15 spec) with 300 dex and a 5.5 weapon against 26% resist and 50 spec af for the listed armor types, cloth assumes self af and self absorb, please note that the only relevant damage here is avg, the min / max damage are with the min and max variance which doesn't apply. Also note that high level arrow bonus or low level arrow penalty is not included, the damage modifier would remain the same but the bonus / penalty would be a 0.85 - 1.25 multiplier on the weapon dps / total damage.


Currently vs Cloth
Spec 16, Min: 126.01 (1.06), Avg: 159.35 (1.35), Max: 194.08 (1.64)
Spec 17, Min: 127.91 (1.08), Avg: 161.4 (1.36), Max: 196.27 (1.65)
Spec 18, Min: 129.83 (1.09), Avg: 163.45 (1.37), Max: 198.48 (1.66)
Spec 19, Min: 131.75 (1.1), Avg: 165.52 (1.38), Max: 200.69 (1.67)
Spec 20, Min: 133.69 (1.11), Avg: 167.59 (1.39), Max: 202.91 (1.69)
Spec 21, Min: 135.64 (1.12), Avg: 169.68 (1.4), Max: 205.15 (1.7)
Spec 22, Min: 137.59 (1.13), Avg: 171.78 (1.42), Max: 207.4 (1.71)
Spec 23, Min: 139.57 (1.15), Avg: 173.9 (1.43), Max: 209.66 (1.72)
Spec 24, Min: 141.55 (1.16), Avg: 176.02 (1.44), Max: 211.93 (1.73)
Spec 25, Min: 143.54 (1.17), Avg: 178.15 (1.45), Max: 214.21 (1.74)
Spec 26, Min: 145.55 (1.18), Avg: 180.3 (1.46), Max: 216.5 (1.76)
Spec 27, Min: 147.56 (1.19), Avg: 182.46 (1.47), Max: 218.81 (1.77)
Spec 28, Min: 149.59 (1.2), Avg: 184.63 (1.48), Max: 221.13 (1.78)
Spec 29, Min: 151.63 (1.21), Avg: 186.81 (1.5), Max: 223.46 (1.79)
Spec 30, Min: 153.69 (1.23), Avg: 189 (1.51), Max: 225.8 (1.8)
Spec 31, Min: 155.75 (1.24), Avg: 191.21 (1.52), Max: 228.15 (1.81)
Spec 32, Min: 157.82 (1.25), Avg: 193.43 (1.53), Max: 230.51 (1.82)
Spec 33, Min: 159.91 (1.26), Avg: 195.65 (1.54), Max: 232.89 (1.84)
Spec 34, Min: 162.01 (1.27), Avg: 197.89 (1.55), Max: 235.27 (1.85)
Spec 35, Min: 164.12 (1.28), Avg: 200.14 (1.57), Max: 237.67 (1.86)
Spec 36, Min: 166.24 (1.3), Avg: 202.41 (1.58), Max: 240.08 (1.87)
Spec 37, Min: 168.37 (1.31), Avg: 204.68 (1.59), Max: 242.5 (1.88)
Spec 38, Min: 170.51 (1.32), Avg: 206.96 (1.6), Max: 244.93 (1.89)
Spec 39, Min: 172.67 (1.33), Avg: 209.26 (1.61), Max: 247.38 (1.9)
Spec 40, Min: 174.84 (1.34), Avg: 211.57 (1.62), Max: 249.83 (1.92)
Spec 41, Min: 177.02 (1.35), Avg: 213.89 (1.63), Max: 252.3 (1.93)
Spec 42, Min: 179.21 (1.36), Avg: 216.22 (1.65), Max: 254.78 (1.94)
Spec 43, Min: 181.41 (1.38), Avg: 218.56 (1.66), Max: 257.27 (1.95)
Spec 44, Min: 183.62 (1.39), Avg: 220.92 (1.67), Max: 259.77 (1.96)
Spec 45, Min: 185.85 (1.4), Avg: 223.29 (1.68), Max: 262.28 (1.97)
Spec 46, Min: 188.08 (1.41), Avg: 225.66 (1.69), Max: 264.81 (1.99)
Spec 47, Min: 190.33 (1.42), Avg: 228.05 (1.7), Max: 267.34 (2)
Spec 48, Min: 192.59 (1.43), Avg: 230.45 (1.72), Max: 269.89 (2.01)
Spec 49, Min: 194.86 (1.44), Avg: 232.87 (1.73), Max: 272.45 (2.02)
Spec 50, Min: 197.14 (1.46), Avg: 235.29 (1.74), Max: 275.02 (2.03)
Spec 51, Min: 199.44 (1.47), Avg: 237.72 (1.75), Max: 277.61 (2.04)
Spec 52, Min: 201.74 (1.48), Avg: 240.17 (1.76), Max: 280.2 (2.05)
Spec 53, Min: 202.49 (1.48), Avg: 241.05 (1.76), Max: 281.23 (2.05)
Spec 54, Min: 203.23 (1.48), Avg: 241.94 (1.76), Max: 282.26 (2.05)
Spec 55, Min: 203.97 (1.48), Avg: 242.82 (1.76), Max: 283.29 (2.05)
Spec 56, Min: 204.71 (1.48), Avg: 243.7 (1.76), Max: 284.32 (2.05)
Spec 57, Min: 205.45 (1.48), Avg: 244.59 (1.76), Max: 285.35 (2.05)
Spec 58, Min: 206.19 (1.48), Avg: 245.47 (1.76), Max: 286.38 (2.05)
Spec 59, Min: 206.94 (1.48), Avg: 246.35 (1.76), Max: 287.41 (2.05)
Spec 60, Min: 207.68 (1.48), Avg: 247.24 (1.76), Max: 288.44 (2.05)
Spec 61, Min: 208.42 (1.48), Avg: 248.12 (1.76), Max: 289.47 (2.05)
Spec 62, Min: 209.16 (1.48), Avg: 249 (1.76), Max: 290.5 (2.05)
Spec 63, Min: 209.9 (1.48), Avg: 249.88 (1.76), Max: 291.53 (2.05)
Spec 64, Min: 210.64 (1.48), Avg: 250.77 (1.76), Max: 292.56 (2.05)
Spec 65, Min: 211.39 (1.48), Avg: 251.65 (1.76), Max: 293.59 (2.05)


Cloth after the change
Spec 16, Min: 89.9 (.76), Avg: 113.69 (.96), Max: 138.47 (1.17)
Spec 17, Min: 92.96 (.78), Avg: 117.3 (.99), Max: 142.65 (1.2)
Spec 18, Min: 96.09 (.81), Avg: 120.97 (1.01), Max: 146.9 (1.23)
Spec 19, Min: 99.27 (.83), Avg: 124.71 (1.04), Max: 151.21 (1.26)
Spec 20, Min: 102.51 (.85), Avg: 128.51 (1.07), Max: 155.59 (1.29)
Spec 21, Min: 105.81 (.88), Avg: 132.38 (1.1), Max: 160.05 (1.32)
Spec 22, Min: 109.18 (.9), Avg: 136.31 (1.12), Max: 164.57 (1.36)
Spec 23, Min: 112.6 (.92), Avg: 140.3 (1.15), Max: 169.16 (1.39)
Spec 24, Min: 116.09 (.95), Avg: 144.36 (1.18), Max: 173.81 (1.42)
Spec 25, Min: 119.64 (.97), Avg: 148.49 (1.21), Max: 178.54 (1.45)
Spec 26, Min: 123.26 (1), Avg: 152.69 (1.24), Max: 183.34 (1.49)
Spec 27, Min: 126.93 (1.02), Avg: 156.95 (1.27), Max: 188.22 (1.52)
Spec 28, Min: 130.67 (1.05), Avg: 161.28 (1.3), Max: 193.16 (1.55)
Spec 29, Min: 134.48 (1.08), Avg: 165.68 (1.33), Max: 198.17 (1.59)
Spec 30, Min: 138.35 (1.1), Avg: 170.14 (1.36), Max: 203.26 (1.62)
Spec 31, Min: 142.28 (1.13), Avg: 174.68 (1.39), Max: 208.42 (1.66)
Spec 32, Min: 146.28 (1.16), Avg: 179.28 (1.42), Max: 213.66 (1.69)
Spec 33, Min: 150.35 (1.19), Avg: 183.96 (1.45), Max: 218.96 (1.73)
Spec 34, Min: 154.48 (1.21), Avg: 188.7 (1.48), Max: 224.35 (1.76)
Spec 35, Min: 158.68 (1.24), Avg: 193.52 (1.51), Max: 229.8 (1.8)
Spec 36, Min: 162.95 (1.27), Avg: 198.41 (1.55), Max: 235.34 (1.83)
Spec 37, Min: 167.29 (1.3), Avg: 203.36 (1.58), Max: 240.94 (1.87)
Spec 38, Min: 171.69 (1.33), Avg: 208.4 (1.61), Max: 246.63 (1.91)
Spec 39, Min: 176.17 (1.36), Avg: 213.5 (1.64), Max: 252.39 (1.94)
Spec 40, Min: 180.71 (1.39), Avg: 218.68 (1.68), Max: 258.23 (1.98)
Spec 41, Min: 185.33 (1.42), Avg: 223.93 (1.71), Max: 264.14 (2.02)
Spec 42, Min: 190.01 (1.45), Avg: 229.26 (1.75), Max: 270.14 (2.06)
Spec 43, Min: 194.76 (1.48), Avg: 234.66 (1.78), Max: 276.21 (2.09)
Spec 44, Min: 199.59 (1.51), Avg: 240.13 (1.81), Max: 282.36 (2.13)
Spec 45, Min: 204.49 (1.54), Avg: 245.68 (1.85), Max: 288.59 (2.17)
Spec 46, Min: 209.46 (1.57), Avg: 251.31 (1.88), Max: 294.9 (2.21)
Spec 47, Min: 214.5 (1.6), Avg: 257.01 (1.92), Max: 301.29 (2.25)
Spec 48, Min: 219.61 (1.63), Avg: 262.79 (1.96), Max: 307.76 (2.29)
Spec 49, Min: 224.8 (1.67), Avg: 268.65 (1.99), Max: 314.32 (2.33)
Spec 50, Min: 230.07 (1.7), Avg: 274.58 (2.03), Max: 320.95 (2.37)
Spec 51, Min: 235.41 (1.73), Avg: 280.6 (2.07), Max: 327.67 (2.41)
Spec 52, Min: 240.82 (1.77), Avg: 286.69 (2.1), Max: 334.47 (2.45)
Spec 53, Min: 244.4 (1.79), Avg: 290.96 (2.13), Max: 339.45 (2.48)
Spec 54, Min: 248.01 (1.81), Avg: 295.25 (2.15), Max: 344.46 (2.51)
Spec 55, Min: 251.64 (1.82), Avg: 299.57 (2.17), Max: 349.5 (2.53)
Spec 56, Min: 255.28 (1.84), Avg: 303.91 (2.2), Max: 354.56 (2.56)
Spec 57, Min: 258.95 (1.86), Avg: 308.27 (2.22), Max: 359.65 (2.59)
Spec 58, Min: 262.63 (1.88), Avg: 312.66 (2.24), Max: 364.77 (2.62)
Spec 59, Min: 266.34 (1.9), Avg: 317.07 (2.27), Max: 369.92 (2.64)
Spec 60, Min: 270.06 (1.92), Avg: 321.5 (2.29), Max: 375.09 (2.67)
Spec 61, Min: 273.81 (1.94), Avg: 325.96 (2.31), Max: 380.29 (2.7)
Spec 62, Min: 277.57 (1.96), Avg: 330.44 (2.34), Max: 385.52 (2.73)
Spec 63, Min: 281.36 (1.98), Avg: 334.95 (2.36), Max: 390.77 (2.75)
Spec 64, Min: 285.16 (2), Avg: 339.48 (2.38), Max: 396.06 (2.78)
Spec 65, Min: 288.99 (2.02), Avg: 344.03 (2.41), Max: 401.37 (2.81)


Currently vs leather
Spec 16, Min: 125.21 (1.06), Avg: 158.34 (1.34), Max: 192.85 (1.63)
Spec 17, Min: 127.1 (1.07), Avg: 160.37 (1.35), Max: 195.02 (1.64)
Spec 18, Min: 129 (1.08), Avg: 162.41 (1.36), Max: 197.21 (1.65)
Spec 19, Min: 130.91 (1.09), Avg: 164.46 (1.37), Max: 199.41 (1.66)
Spec 20, Min: 132.84 (1.1), Avg: 166.53 (1.38), Max: 201.62 (1.68)
Spec 21, Min: 134.77 (1.12), Avg: 168.6 (1.4), Max: 203.84 (1.69)
Spec 22, Min: 136.72 (1.13), Avg: 170.69 (1.41), Max: 206.08 (1.7)
Spec 23, Min: 138.68 (1.14), Avg: 172.79 (1.42), Max: 208.32 (1.71)
Spec 24, Min: 140.65 (1.15), Avg: 174.9 (1.43), Max: 210.58 (1.72)
Spec 25, Min: 142.63 (1.16), Avg: 177.02 (1.44), Max: 212.85 (1.73)
Spec 26, Min: 144.62 (1.17), Avg: 179.15 (1.45), Max: 215.13 (1.74)
Spec 27, Min: 146.62 (1.18), Avg: 181.3 (1.46), Max: 217.42 (1.76)
Spec 28, Min: 148.64 (1.2), Avg: 183.45 (1.48), Max: 219.72 (1.77)
Spec 29, Min: 150.67 (1.21), Avg: 185.62 (1.49), Max: 222.03 (1.78)
Spec 30, Min: 152.71 (1.22), Avg: 187.8 (1.5), Max: 224.36 (1.79)
Spec 31, Min: 154.76 (1.23), Avg: 189.99 (1.51), Max: 226.69 (1.8)
Spec 32, Min: 156.82 (1.24), Avg: 192.19 (1.52), Max: 229.04 (1.81)
Spec 33, Min: 158.89 (1.25), Avg: 194.41 (1.53), Max: 231.4 (1.82)
Spec 34, Min: 160.98 (1.26), Avg: 196.63 (1.54), Max: 233.77 (1.84)
Spec 35, Min: 163.07 (1.28), Avg: 198.87 (1.56), Max: 236.16 (1.85)
Spec 36, Min: 165.18 (1.29), Avg: 201.12 (1.57), Max: 238.55 (1.86)
Spec 37, Min: 167.3 (1.3), Avg: 203.38 (1.58), Max: 240.96 (1.87)
Spec 38, Min: 169.43 (1.31), Avg: 205.65 (1.59), Max: 243.37 (1.88)
Spec 39, Min: 171.57 (1.32), Avg: 207.93 (1.6), Max: 245.8 (1.89)
Spec 40, Min: 173.72 (1.33), Avg: 210.22 (1.61), Max: 248.24 (1.9)
Spec 41, Min: 175.89 (1.34), Avg: 212.53 (1.62), Max: 250.69 (1.92)
Spec 42, Min: 178.07 (1.36), Avg: 214.84 (1.64), Max: 253.16 (1.93)
Spec 43, Min: 180.25 (1.37), Avg: 217.17 (1.65), Max: 255.63 (1.94)
Spec 44, Min: 182.45 (1.38), Avg: 219.51 (1.66), Max: 258.12 (1.95)
Spec 45, Min: 184.66 (1.39), Avg: 221.86 (1.67), Max: 260.61 (1.96)
Spec 46, Min: 186.89 (1.4), Avg: 224.23 (1.68), Max: 263.12 (1.97)
Spec 47, Min: 189.12 (1.41), Avg: 226.6 (1.69), Max: 265.64 (1.98)
Spec 48, Min: 191.36 (1.42), Avg: 228.99 (1.7), Max: 268.17 (2)
Spec 49, Min: 193.62 (1.44), Avg: 231.38 (1.72), Max: 270.72 (2.01)
Spec 50, Min: 195.89 (1.45), Avg: 233.79 (1.73), Max: 273.27 (2.02)
Spec 51, Min: 198.17 (1.46), Avg: 236.21 (1.74), Max: 275.84 (2.03)
Spec 52, Min: 200.46 (1.47), Avg: 238.64 (1.75), Max: 278.42 (2.04)
Spec 53, Min: 201.2 (1.47), Avg: 239.52 (1.75), Max: 279.44 (2.04)
Spec 54, Min: 201.93 (1.47), Avg: 240.4 (1.75), Max: 280.46 (2.04)
Spec 55, Min: 202.67 (1.47), Avg: 241.27 (1.75), Max: 281.49 (2.04)
Spec 56, Min: 203.41 (1.47), Avg: 242.15 (1.75), Max: 282.51 (2.04)
Spec 57, Min: 204.14 (1.47), Avg: 243.03 (1.75), Max: 283.53 (2.04)
Spec 58, Min: 204.88 (1.47), Avg: 243.91 (1.75), Max: 284.56 (2.04)
Spec 59, Min: 205.62 (1.47), Avg: 244.78 (1.75), Max: 285.58 (2.04)
Spec 60, Min: 206.35 (1.47), Avg: 245.66 (1.75), Max: 286.6 (2.04)
Spec 61, Min: 207.09 (1.47), Avg: 246.54 (1.75), Max: 287.63 (2.04)
Spec 62, Min: 207.83 (1.47), Avg: 247.42 (1.75), Max: 288.65 (2.04)
Spec 63, Min: 208.57 (1.47), Avg: 248.29 (1.75), Max: 289.67 (2.04)
Spec 64, Min: 209.3 (1.47), Avg: 249.17 (1.75), Max: 290.7 (2.04)
Spec 65, Min: 210.04 (1.47), Avg: 250.05 (1.75), Max: 291.72 (2.04)


Leather after the change
Spec 16, Min: 89.33 (.75), Avg: 112.96 (.95), Max: 137.58 (1.16)
Spec 17, Min: 92.37 (.78), Avg: 116.55 (.98), Max: 141.74 (1.19)
Spec 18, Min: 95.47 (.8), Avg: 120.2 (1.01), Max: 145.96 (1.22)
Spec 19, Min: 98.64 (.82), Avg: 123.92 (1.03), Max: 150.25 (1.25)
Spec 20, Min: 101.86 (.85), Avg: 127.69 (1.06), Max: 154.6 (1.28)
Spec 21, Min: 105.14 (.87), Avg: 131.53 (1.09), Max: 159.03 (1.32)
Spec 22, Min: 108.48 (.89), Avg: 135.44 (1.12), Max: 163.52 (1.35)
Spec 23, Min: 111.89 (.92), Avg: 139.41 (1.14), Max: 168.08 (1.38)
Spec 24, Min: 115.35 (.94), Avg: 143.44 (1.17), Max: 172.71 (1.41)
Spec 25, Min: 118.88 (.97), Avg: 147.55 (1.2), Max: 177.41 (1.44)
Spec 26, Min: 122.47 (.99), Avg: 151.71 (1.23), Max: 182.18 (1.48)
Spec 27, Min: 126.12 (1.02), Avg: 155.95 (1.26), Max: 187.02 (1.51)
Spec 28, Min: 129.84 (1.04), Avg: 160.25 (1.29), Max: 191.93 (1.54)
Spec 29, Min: 133.62 (1.07), Avg: 164.62 (1.32), Max: 196.91 (1.58)
Spec 30, Min: 137.47 (1.1), Avg: 169.06 (1.35), Max: 201.97 (1.61)
Spec 31, Min: 141.38 (1.12), Avg: 173.56 (1.38), Max: 207.09 (1.65)
Spec 32, Min: 145.35 (1.15), Avg: 178.14 (1.41), Max: 212.29 (1.68)
Spec 33, Min: 149.39 (1.18), Avg: 182.79 (1.44), Max: 217.57 (1.72)
Spec 34, Min: 153.5 (1.21), Avg: 187.5 (1.47), Max: 222.92 (1.75)
Spec 35, Min: 157.67 (1.23), Avg: 192.29 (1.5), Max: 228.34 (1.79)
Spec 36, Min: 161.92 (1.26), Avg: 197.14 (1.54), Max: 233.84 (1.82)
Spec 37, Min: 166.22 (1.29), Avg: 202.07 (1.57), Max: 239.41 (1.86)
Spec 38, Min: 170.6 (1.32), Avg: 207.07 (1.6), Max: 245.06 (1.89)
Spec 39, Min: 175.05 (1.35), Avg: 212.14 (1.63), Max: 250.78 (1.93)
Spec 40, Min: 179.56 (1.38), Avg: 217.29 (1.67), Max: 256.58 (1.97)
Spec 41, Min: 184.15 (1.41), Avg: 222.5 (1.7), Max: 262.46 (2.01)
Spec 42, Min: 188.8 (1.44), Avg: 227.79 (1.73), Max: 268.42 (2.04)
Spec 43, Min: 193.52 (1.47), Avg: 233.16 (1.77), Max: 274.45 (2.08)
Spec 44, Min: 198.32 (1.5), Avg: 238.6 (1.8), Max: 280.56 (2.12)
Spec 45, Min: 203.18 (1.53), Avg: 244.12 (1.84), Max: 286.75 (2.16)
Spec 46, Min: 208.12 (1.56), Avg: 249.71 (1.87), Max: 293.02 (2.2)
Spec 47, Min: 213.13 (1.59), Avg: 255.37 (1.91), Max: 299.37 (2.24)
Spec 48, Min: 218.22 (1.62), Avg: 261.12 (1.94), Max: 305.8 (2.28)
Spec 49, Min: 223.37 (1.66), Avg: 266.94 (1.98), Max: 312.32 (2.32)
Spec 50, Min: 228.6 (1.69), Avg: 272.83 (2.02), Max: 318.91 (2.36)
Spec 51, Min: 233.91 (1.72), Avg: 278.81 (2.05), Max: 325.58 (2.4)
Spec 52, Min: 239.28 (1.75), Avg: 284.86 (2.09), Max: 332.34 (2.44)
Spec 53, Min: 242.85 (1.77), Avg: 289.1 (2.11), Max: 337.29 (2.46)
Spec 54, Min: 246.43 (1.79), Avg: 293.37 (2.14), Max: 342.27 (2.49)
Spec 55, Min: 250.03 (1.81), Avg: 297.66 (2.16), Max: 347.27 (2.52)
Spec 56, Min: 253.66 (1.83), Avg: 301.97 (2.18), Max: 352.3 (2.55)
Spec 57, Min: 257.3 (1.85), Avg: 306.31 (2.21), Max: 357.36 (2.57)
Spec 58, Min: 260.96 (1.87), Avg: 310.67 (2.23), Max: 362.45 (2.6)
Spec 59, Min: 264.64 (1.89), Avg: 315.05 (2.25), Max: 367.56 (2.63)
Spec 60, Min: 268.34 (1.91), Avg: 319.46 (2.28), Max: 372.7 (2.65)
Spec 61, Min: 272.06 (1.93), Avg: 323.89 (2.3), Max: 377.87 (2.68)
Spec 62, Min: 275.81 (1.95), Avg: 328.34 (2.32), Max: 383.06 (2.71)
Spec 63, Min: 279.57 (1.97), Avg: 332.82 (2.35), Max: 388.29 (2.74)
Spec 64, Min: 283.35 (1.99), Avg: 337.32 (2.37), Max: 393.54 (2.76)
Spec 65, Min: 287.15 (2.01), Avg: 341.84 (2.39), Max: 398.81 (2.79)


Currently vs Studded
Spec 16, Min: 112.69 (.95), Avg: 142.5 (1.2), Max: 173.56 (1.47)
Spec 17, Min: 114.39 (.96), Avg: 144.33 (1.21), Max: 175.52 (1.48)
Spec 18, Min: 116.1 (.97), Avg: 146.17 (1.22), Max: 177.49 (1.49)
Spec 19, Min: 117.82 (.98), Avg: 148.02 (1.24), Max: 179.47 (1.5)
Spec 20, Min: 119.55 (.99), Avg: 149.87 (1.25), Max: 181.46 (1.51)
Spec 21, Min: 121.29 (1), Avg: 151.74 (1.26), Max: 183.46 (1.52)
Spec 22, Min: 123.05 (1.01), Avg: 153.62 (1.27), Max: 185.47 (1.53)
Spec 23, Min: 124.81 (1.02), Avg: 155.51 (1.28), Max: 187.49 (1.54)
Spec 24, Min: 126.58 (1.03), Avg: 157.41 (1.29), Max: 189.52 (1.55)
Spec 25, Min: 128.36 (1.04), Avg: 159.32 (1.3), Max: 191.56 (1.56)
Spec 26, Min: 130.16 (1.06), Avg: 161.24 (1.31), Max: 193.61 (1.57)
Spec 27, Min: 131.96 (1.07), Avg: 163.17 (1.32), Max: 195.67 (1.58)
Spec 28, Min: 133.78 (1.08), Avg: 165.11 (1.33), Max: 197.75 (1.59)
Spec 29, Min: 135.6 (1.09), Avg: 167.06 (1.34), Max: 199.83 (1.6)
Spec 30, Min: 137.44 (1.1), Avg: 169.02 (1.35), Max: 201.92 (1.61)
Spec 31, Min: 139.28 (1.11), Avg: 170.99 (1.36), Max: 204.02 (1.62)
Spec 32, Min: 141.14 (1.12), Avg: 172.97 (1.37), Max: 206.14 (1.63)
Spec 33, Min: 143 (1.13), Avg: 174.97 (1.38), Max: 208.26 (1.64)
Spec 34, Min: 144.88 (1.14), Avg: 176.97 (1.39), Max: 210.4 (1.65)
Spec 35, Min: 146.76 (1.15), Avg: 178.98 (1.4), Max: 212.54 (1.66)
Spec 36, Min: 148.66 (1.16), Avg: 181 (1.41), Max: 214.69 (1.67)
Spec 37, Min: 150.57 (1.17), Avg: 183.04 (1.42), Max: 216.86 (1.68)
Spec 38, Min: 152.49 (1.18), Avg: 185.08 (1.43), Max: 219.04 (1.69)
Spec 39, Min: 154.41 (1.19), Avg: 187.14 (1.44), Max: 221.22 (1.7)
Spec 40, Min: 156.35 (1.2), Avg: 189.2 (1.45), Max: 223.42 (1.71)
Spec 41, Min: 158.3 (1.21), Avg: 191.27 (1.46), Max: 225.62 (1.72)
Spec 42, Min: 160.26 (1.22), Avg: 193.36 (1.47), Max: 227.84 (1.73)
Spec 43, Min: 162.23 (1.23), Avg: 195.45 (1.48), Max: 230.07 (1.74)
Spec 44, Min: 164.21 (1.24), Avg: 197.56 (1.49), Max: 232.3 (1.75)
Spec 45, Min: 166.2 (1.25), Avg: 199.68 (1.5), Max: 234.55 (1.77)
Spec 46, Min: 168.2 (1.26), Avg: 201.8 (1.51), Max: 236.81 (1.78)
Spec 47, Min: 170.21 (1.27), Avg: 203.94 (1.52), Max: 239.08 (1.79)
Spec 48, Min: 172.23 (1.28), Avg: 206.09 (1.53), Max: 241.36 (1.8)
Spec 49, Min: 174.26 (1.29), Avg: 208.24 (1.54), Max: 243.65 (1.81)
Spec 50, Min: 176.3 (1.3), Avg: 210.41 (1.55), Max: 245.94 (1.82)
Spec 51, Min: 178.35 (1.31), Avg: 212.59 (1.56), Max: 248.25 (1.83)
Spec 52, Min: 180.41 (1.32), Avg: 214.78 (1.57), Max: 250.57 (1.84)
Spec 53, Min: 181.08 (1.32), Avg: 215.57 (1.57), Max: 251.5 (1.84)
Spec 54, Min: 181.74 (1.32), Avg: 216.36 (1.57), Max: 252.42 (1.84)
Spec 55, Min: 182.4 (1.32), Avg: 217.15 (1.57), Max: 253.34 (1.84)
Spec 56, Min: 183.07 (1.32), Avg: 217.94 (1.57), Max: 254.26 (1.84)
Spec 57, Min: 183.73 (1.32), Avg: 218.73 (1.57), Max: 255.18 (1.84)
Spec 58, Min: 184.39 (1.32), Avg: 219.52 (1.57), Max: 256.1 (1.84)
Spec 59, Min: 185.06 (1.32), Avg: 220.3 (1.57), Max: 257.02 (1.84)
Spec 60, Min: 185.72 (1.32), Avg: 221.09 (1.57), Max: 257.94 (1.84)
Spec 61, Min: 186.38 (1.32), Avg: 221.88 (1.57), Max: 258.86 (1.84)
Spec 62, Min: 187.05 (1.32), Avg: 222.67 (1.57), Max: 259.79 (1.84)
Spec 63, Min: 187.71 (1.32), Avg: 223.46 (1.57), Max: 260.71 (1.84)
Spec 64, Min: 188.37 (1.32), Avg: 224.25 (1.57), Max: 261.63 (1.84)
Spec 65, Min: 189.04 (1.32), Avg: 225.04 (1.57), Max: 262.55 (1.84)


Studded after the change
Spec 16, Min: 80.4 (.68), Avg: 101.67 (.86), Max: 123.83 (1.05)
Spec 17, Min: 83.14 (.7), Avg: 104.9 (.88), Max: 127.57 (1.07)
Spec 18, Min: 85.93 (.72), Avg: 108.18 (.91), Max: 131.36 (1.1)
Spec 19, Min: 88.77 (.74), Avg: 111.52 (.93), Max: 135.22 (1.13)
Spec 20, Min: 91.67 (.76), Avg: 114.92 (.96), Max: 139.14 (1.16)
Spec 21, Min: 94.63 (.78), Avg: 118.38 (.98), Max: 143.12 (1.18)
Spec 22, Min: 97.63 (.8), Avg: 121.89 (1), Max: 147.17 (1.21)
Spec 23, Min: 100.7 (.83), Avg: 125.47 (1.03), Max: 151.27 (1.24)
Spec 24, Min: 103.82 (.85), Avg: 129.1 (1.06), Max: 155.44 (1.27)
Spec 25, Min: 106.99 (.87), Avg: 132.79 (1.08), Max: 159.67 (1.3)
Spec 26, Min: 110.22 (.89), Avg: 136.54 (1.11), Max: 163.96 (1.33)
Spec 27, Min: 113.51 (.92), Avg: 140.35 (1.13), Max: 168.32 (1.36)
Spec 28, Min: 116.86 (.94), Avg: 144.23 (1.16), Max: 172.74 (1.39)
Spec 29, Min: 120.26 (.96), Avg: 148.16 (1.19), Max: 177.22 (1.42)
Spec 30, Min: 123.72 (.99), Avg: 152.15 (1.21), Max: 181.77 (1.45)
Spec 31, Min: 127.24 (1.01), Avg: 156.21 (1.24), Max: 186.38 (1.48)
Spec 32, Min: 130.82 (1.04), Avg: 160.33 (1.27), Max: 191.07 (1.51)
Spec 33, Min: 134.45 (1.06), Avg: 164.51 (1.3), Max: 195.81 (1.54)
Spec 34, Min: 138.15 (1.08), Avg: 168.75 (1.33), Max: 200.63 (1.58)
Spec 35, Min: 141.91 (1.11), Avg: 173.06 (1.35), Max: 205.51 (1.61)
Spec 36, Min: 145.72 (1.14), Avg: 177.43 (1.38), Max: 210.45 (1.64)
Spec 37, Min: 149.6 (1.16), Avg: 181.86 (1.41), Max: 215.47 (1.67)
Spec 38, Min: 153.54 (1.19), Avg: 186.36 (1.44), Max: 220.55 (1.7)
Spec 39, Min: 157.54 (1.21), Avg: 190.93 (1.47), Max: 225.7 (1.74)
Spec 40, Min: 161.61 (1.24), Avg: 195.56 (1.5), Max: 230.92 (1.77)
Spec 41, Min: 165.73 (1.27), Avg: 200.25 (1.53), Max: 236.21 (1.81)
Spec 42, Min: 169.92 (1.29), Avg: 205.02 (1.56), Max: 241.57 (1.84)
Spec 43, Min: 174.17 (1.32), Avg: 209.84 (1.59), Max: 247 (1.87)
Spec 44, Min: 178.49 (1.35), Avg: 214.74 (1.62), Max: 252.51 (1.91)
Spec 45, Min: 182.87 (1.38), Avg: 219.7 (1.65), Max: 258.08 (1.94)
Spec 46, Min: 187.31 (1.4), Avg: 224.74 (1.69), Max: 263.72 (1.98)
Spec 47, Min: 191.82 (1.43), Avg: 229.84 (1.72), Max: 269.44 (2.01)
Spec 48, Min: 196.39 (1.46), Avg: 235 (1.75), Max: 275.22 (2.05)
Spec 49, Min: 201.03 (1.49), Avg: 240.24 (1.78), Max: 281.08 (2.08)
Spec 50, Min: 205.74 (1.52), Avg: 245.55 (1.81), Max: 287.02 (2.12)
Spec 51, Min: 210.52 (1.55), Avg: 250.93 (1.85), Max: 293.02 (2.16)
Spec 52, Min: 215.36 (1.58), Avg: 256.38 (1.88), Max: 299.1 (2.19)
Spec 53, Min: 218.56 (1.6), Avg: 260.19 (1.9), Max: 303.56 (2.22)
Spec 54, Min: 221.79 (1.61), Avg: 264.03 (1.92), Max: 308.04 (2.24)
Spec 55, Min: 225.03 (1.63), Avg: 267.89 (1.94), Max: 312.54 (2.27)
Spec 56, Min: 228.29 (1.65), Avg: 271.77 (1.96), Max: 317.07 (2.29)
Spec 57, Min: 231.57 (1.67), Avg: 275.68 (1.98), Max: 321.62 (2.32)
Spec 58, Min: 234.86 (1.68), Avg: 279.6 (2.01), Max: 326.2 (2.34)
Spec 59, Min: 238.18 (1.7), Avg: 283.55 (2.03), Max: 330.8 (2.36)
Spec 60, Min: 241.51 (1.72), Avg: 287.51 (2.05), Max: 335.43 (2.39)
Spec 61, Min: 244.86 (1.74), Avg: 291.5 (2.07), Max: 340.08 (2.41)
Spec 62, Min: 248.22 (1.76), Avg: 295.51 (2.09), Max: 344.76 (2.44)
Spec 63, Min: 251.61 (1.77), Avg: 299.53 (2.11), Max: 349.46 (2.46)
Spec 64, Min: 255.01 (1.79), Avg: 303.58 (2.13), Max: 354.18 (2.49)
Spec 65, Min: 258.43 (1.81), Avg: 307.66 (2.15), Max: 358.93 (2.51)
Tue 5 May 2020 11:31 AM by daytonchambers
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 10:56 AM
The damage modifier change will be handled slightly differently, it'll be a separate multiplicator that depends on your modified spec based on your level.

Numbers are assuming normal shot (it won't apply to volley but will apply to RF/Crit shot) you are rr5 (hence starting at 1+15 spec) with 300 dex and a 5.5 weapon against 26% resist and 50 spec af for the listed armor types, cloth assumes self af and self absorb, please note that the only relevant damage here is avg, the min / max damage are with the min and max variance which doesn't apply:

Removed charts to prevent wall of text



Looking at all these charts I can't help but notice that the lowest spec levels get a slight damage drop, and that the current cap of 52 composite spec gets a bit of a damage increase.

So.. even if I do not alter my spec at all to push the composite number higher I'm still going to see a damage increase. Am I reading that correctly?
Tue 5 May 2020 11:37 AM by asnusia
yes

vs leather with comp 52 bow spec the dmg rise from 238 to 284
Tue 5 May 2020 12:00 PM by daytonchambers
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 4:56 PM
And then for a potential change:



I mentioned this in an earlier post on this thread, but instead of adding new stuff that never existed what about implementing Sure Shot which was added in patch 1.69?

"We have given archers a new ability called Sureshot that is available at 45 bow specialization for Hunters, Rangers, and Scouts. When Sureshot is toggled on, the archer will brace herself against attacks from range, giving her a 100% chance of not being interrupted by any ranged attack, including arrows and spells. Because the bow is being fired from a less natural position, the damage from each arrow is halved. Sureshot cannot be used with Rapid Fire, Critical Shot, Longshot, or Volley. Penetrating Arrow benefits will count towards arrowed fire using Sureshot."

https://camelotherald.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_Notes:_Version_1.69
Tue 5 May 2020 12:36 PM by Pao
Not enough that will play my archer anytime soon.

Hope more archer will play though easy rps.
Tue 5 May 2020 2:49 PM by Alle
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 4:56 PM
This change is part of a series of changes: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=99782

We will keep the old archery system, however, we will make a few adjustments. Archery changes / buffs have to be handled carefully as a noticable increase in archers and especially archer zergs would be a lot worse than having useless archery, therefore the behavior after these changes will be watched closely.

The damage modifier formula will be changed for non-volley archery shots only and no longer cap at min(spec - 1, enemy level + 1) aka no longer cap at 52 in pvp situations. This alone will make a noticable difference between 27 and 50 bow spec while at the same time increasing the bow damage for higher specs without touching the current 27 bow damage.
Penetrating shot 2 will allow 50% of the damage to go through against self casted bt.


And then for a potential change:
A new critical shot rank will be added at around 45 archery that will apply a certain effect to the target, candidates for this effect would be prevent flight, nearsight and disease.

An easy change for Scout: Make the SI bow, Sepulchral Longbow have a proc range longer than its current 300.
Tue 5 May 2020 3:03 PM by Centenario
Gruneschaff values are at 5.5 Draw Speed, it would mean that if I managed to increase my attackspeed to 2.75 I would do double that damage?

Archery is a basic damage ability, which grows with attackspeed as opposed to style damage which decreases according to swing speed.

For sure, IMO the archery at 300dex 5.5speed, 2.75 draw time, 5.5 bow if it does 344*2 on a regular shot on average it should be okay.

344 at 5.5 speed = 344*2 at 5.5/2 speed or 688 at 2.75 speed.
Tue 5 May 2020 3:24 PM by gruenesschaf
Centenario wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 3:03 PM
Gruneschaff values are at 5.5 Draw Speed, it would mean that if I managed to increase my attackspeed to 2.75 I would do double that damage?

Archery is a basic damage ability, which grows with attackspeed as opposed to style damage which decreases according to swing speed.

For sure, IMO the archery at 300dex 5.5speed, 2.75 draw time, 5.5 bow if it does 344*2 on a regular shot on average it should be okay.

344 at 5.5 speed = 344*2 at 5.5/2 speed or 688 at 2.75 speed.

Base damage, aka unstyled damage or bow damage, is not affected by the actual swing speed (or in this case draw speed) and just cares about the listed speed of the weapon and the usable weapon dps (which would include dps buffs, slow weapon bonus, two handed bonus, your level, the base weapon dps etc.).
Tue 5 May 2020 4:06 PM by easytoremember
Alle wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 2:49 PM
An easy change for Scout: Make the SI bow, Sepulchral Longbow have a proc range longer than its current 300.
Tinctures and Reactives have no range restrictions. The spell used might cite a given range but when it procs there is no range check, and it does not have to be within any certain range to proc
Tue 5 May 2020 4:29 PM by Noashakra
Great not enough to make me go bow, and now it's a nerf of my low bow spec and to all hybrids.

Goodbye ranger, thanks god I am rolling a NS.

Why bother asking the community if you ignore that advices all the time? Why even bother to change if it's to do stuff like this...
Tue 5 May 2020 4:54 PM by Centenario
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 3:24 PM
Centenario wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 3:03 PM
Gruneschaff values are at 5.5 Draw Speed, it would mean that if I managed to increase my attackspeed to 2.75 I would do double that damage?
Archery is a basic damage ability, which grows with attackspeed as opposed to style damage which decreases according to swing speed.
For sure, IMO the archery at 300dex 5.5speed, 2.75 draw time, 5.5 bow if it does 344*2 on a regular shot on average it should be okay.
Base damage, aka unstyled damage or bow damage, is not affected by the actual swing speed (or in this case draw speed) and just cares about the listed speed of the weapon and the usable weapon dps (which would include dps buffs, slow weapon bonus, two handed bonus, your level, the base weapon dps etc.).

Ok let us try with 50% penetrating of self-BT and 344 base damage on a regular shot, hitting 344 at any draw time, thanks for the changes, lets implement it so we can try it.
Then we can give feedback.
Tue 5 May 2020 6:08 PM by Centenario
I went to try out my Scout in the RvR task, I was lucky to find an afk player, it took me 7 arrows to take him down, 242 damage by arrow, 3.5sec draw time, to it took me around 25sec, by which time, i got added.
It just feels awful to take 25second of arrows to kill somebody afk, when he could have ran away or attacked me after 2 arrows.
Tue 5 May 2020 6:24 PM by Noashakra
Centenario wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 6:08 PM
I went to try out my Scout in the RvR task, I was lucky to find an afk player, it took me 7 arrows to take him down, 242 damage by arrow, 3.5sec draw time, to it took me around 25sec, by which time, i got added.
It just feels awful to take 25second of arrows to kill somebody afk, when he could have ran away or attacked me after 2 arrows.

you will need 6 arrow instead of 7 at 50 bow now, rejoyce. if he is not afk, it'll be the same, you will die if you don't run.
Tue 5 May 2020 6:37 PM by Riac
Centenario wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 6:08 PM
I went to try out my Scout in the RvR task, I was lucky to find an afk player, it took me 7 arrows to take him down, 242 damage by arrow, 3.5sec draw time, to it took me around 25sec, by which time, i got added.
It just feels awful to take 25second of arrows to kill somebody afk, when he could have ran away or attacked me after 2 arrows.

i dont feel bad at all considering its takes me longer than 25 secs to kill someone on my SB.
Tue 5 May 2020 6:42 PM by Centenario
Well the SB who added me killed me in less than 10, he failed PA, I slammed him, followed by insta purge, with stun immunity.
And I died quickly after, zero chance to do anything.
Tue 5 May 2020 7:02 PM by Riac
Centenario wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 6:42 PM
Well the SB who added me killed me in less than 10, he failed PA, I slammed him, followed by insta purge, with stun immunity.
And I died quickly after, zero chance to do anything.

lol are you SCed? im not killing anyone in less than 10 secs when missing PA (maybe a caster, but they dont really count). how did you not block with your shield more as a scout? did you take your bow out again? something very wrong with this. (by this, i mean your claim.)
what RR is this scout you are testing all this bullshit on?
Tue 5 May 2020 7:36 PM by easytoremember
Riac wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 7:02 PM
Centenario wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 6:42 PM
Well the SB who added me killed me in less than 10, he failed PA, I slammed him, followed by insta purge, with stun immunity.
And I died quickly after, zero chance to do anything.

lol are you SCed? im not killing anyone in less than 10 secs when missing PA (maybe a caster, but they dont really count). how did you not block with your shield more as a scout? did you take your bow out again? something very wrong with this. (by this, i mean your claim.)
what RR is this scout you are testing all this bullshit on?
20 dex gets you 1% (or was it .5%?) block I dunno why people think scout is a super good blocker beyond guarding someone else
Tue 5 May 2020 8:02 PM by jk123
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 10:56 AM
The damage modifier change will be handled slightly differently, it'll be a separate multiplicator that depends on your modified spec based on your level.

Numbers are assuming normal shot (it won't apply to volley but will apply to RF/Crit shot) you are rr5 (hence starting at 1+15 spec) with 300 dex and a 5.5 weapon against 26% resist and 50 spec af for the listed armor types, cloth assumes self af and self absorb, please note that the only relevant damage here is avg, the min / max damage are with the min and max variance which doesn't apply. Also note that high level arrow bonus or low level arrow penalty is not included, the damage modifier would remain the same but the bonus / penalty would be a 0.85 - 1.25 multiplier on the weapon dps / total damage.

[...]

[/code]

First of: BIG Thanks for your efforts!
It is very, very encouraging, that you don't take the matter lightly.

The damage increase mustn't be too dramatic, we don't want frighteningly high numbers like 1000+500 Crit Dmg
on templated Casters. Agreed.

But if the increase was implemented too low from the beginning, i cannot imagine it to go up again from there.
So why don't we try for a start to increase bow damage by 70% rather than start at only approximately 30-35%?

You would be quick as usual at adjusting it to a more reasonable level i'd assume, if you'd really notice any unwanted impact on the game as a whole and no damage to the game and the server would occur.
Whereas if you wouldn't start high enough concerning the increase in bow dmg,
you wouldnt't likely augment it any further from then on for years to come.

Anyways, excited to see what's coming!
Tue 5 May 2020 8:24 PM by gruenesschaf
jk123 wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 8:02 PM
First of: BIG Thanks for your efforts!
It is very, very encouraging, that you don't take the matter lightly.

The damage increase mustn't be too dramatic, we don't want frighteningly high numbers like 1000+500 Crit Dmg
on templated Casters. Agreed.

But if the increase was implemented too low from the beginning, i cannot imagine it to go up again from there.
So why don't we try for a start to increase bow damage by 70% rather than start at only approximately 30-35%?

You would be quick as usual at adjusting it to a more reasonable level i'd assume, if you'd really notice any unwanted impact on the game as a whole and no damage to the game and the server would occur.
Whereas if you wouldn't start high enough concerning the increase in bow dmg,
you wouldnt't likely augment it any further from then on for years to come.

Anyways, excited to see what's coming!

Such an increase would put it above the cap, this change doesn't touch the damage cap and the cap won't change.

The resulting damage modifier from this change is somewhat comparable to the target not having spec af and you having capped bb buffs.
Tue 5 May 2020 8:25 PM by Riac
easytoremember wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 7:36 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 7:02 PM
Centenario wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 6:42 PM
Well the SB who added me killed me in less than 10, he failed PA, I slammed him, followed by insta purge, with stun immunity.
And I died quickly after, zero chance to do anything.

lol are you SCed? im not killing anyone in less than 10 secs when missing PA (maybe a caster, but they dont really count). how did you not block with your shield more as a scout? did you take your bow out again? something very wrong with this. (by this, i mean your claim.)
what RR is this scout you are testing all this bullshit on?
20 dex gets you 1% (or was it .5%?) block I dunno why people think scout is a super good blocker beyond guarding someone else
lol because they are. its not uncommon to see 35% block rate on a scout. ive seen 40% on the higher ones, but not everyone has that.
Tue 5 May 2020 10:14 PM by Noashakra
But why the nerf of the low spec bow? The problem was not the low level dmg... There is no reason for that.
Tue 5 May 2020 10:20 PM by Riac
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 10:14 PM
But why the nerf of the low spec bow? The problem was not the low level dmg... There is no reason for that.
it was pretty ridic that you got that dmg for free just due to auto train.
Tue 5 May 2020 11:11 PM by jk123
gruenesschaf wrote:
jk123 wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 8:02 PM
First of: BIG Thanks for your efforts!
It is very, very encouraging, that you don't take the matter lightly.

The damage increase mustn't be too dramatic, we don't want frighteningly high numbers like 1000+500 Crit Dmg
on templated Casters. Agreed.

But if the increase was implemented too low from the beginning, i cannot imagine it to go up again from there.
So why don't we try for a start to increase bow damage by 70% rather than start at only approximately 30-35%?

You would be quick as usual at adjusting it to a more reasonable level i'd assume, if you'd really notice any unwanted impact on the game as a whole and no damage to the game and the server would occur.
Whereas if you wouldn't start high enough concerning the increase in bow dmg,
you wouldnt't likely augment it any further from then on for years to come.

Anyways, excited to see what's coming!

Such an increase would put it above the cap, this change doesn't touch the damage cap and the cap won't change.

The resulting damage modifier from this change is somewhat comparable to the target not having spec af and you having capped bb buffs.


If the actual damage was sufficient this way, i would be ok with this, if this would suit you better. One would have to see, how it play out.
But after some noticable and cumulitive collateral nerfs to archery like vulnerability-nerf, hp-boost, high-value heal-charges/procs for everyone (legion, Epic-Vest-Proc) and the purposefully lower archery-damage to begin with, i am really afraid, that the increase could be too little.

My suggestion was aimed at pointing out this worry, rather than suggesting the exact % number of dmg increase needed.

Cheers!
Tue 5 May 2020 11:19 PM by gotwqqd
jk123 wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 11:11 PM
gruenesschaf wrote:
jk123 wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 8:02 PM
First of: BIG Thanks for your efforts!
It is very, very encouraging, that you don't take the matter lightly.

The damage increase mustn't be too dramatic, we don't want frighteningly high numbers like 1000+500 Crit Dmg
on templated Casters. Agreed.

But if the increase was implemented too low from the beginning, i cannot imagine it to go up again from there.
So why don't we try for a start to increase bow damage by 70% rather than start at only approximately 30-35%?

You would be quick as usual at adjusting it to a more reasonable level i'd assume, if you'd really notice any unwanted impact on the game as a whole and no damage to the game and the server would occur.
Whereas if you wouldn't start high enough concerning the increase in bow dmg,
you wouldnt't likely augment it any further from then on for years to come.

Anyways, excited to see what's coming!

Such an increase would put it above the cap, this change doesn't touch the damage cap and the cap won't change.

The resulting damage modifier from this change is somewhat comparable to the target not having spec af and you having capped bb buffs.


If the actual damage was sufficient this way, i would be ok with this, if this would suit you better. One would have to see, how it play out.
But after some noticable and cumulitive collateral nerfs to archery like vulnerability-nerf, hp-boost, high-value heal-charges/procs for everyone (legion, Epic-Vest-Proc) and the purposefully lower archery-damage to begin with, i am really afraid, that the increase could be too little.

My suggestion was aimed at pointing out this worry, rather than suggesting the exact % number of dmg increase needed.

Cheers!
He speaketh truuuth
Wed 6 May 2020 4:37 AM by Delegator
Centenario wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 6:08 PM
I went to try out my Scout in the RvR task, I was lucky to find an afk player, it took me 7 arrows to take him down, 242 damage by arrow, 3.5sec draw time, to it took me around 25sec, by which time, i got added.
It just feels awful to take 25second of arrows to kill somebody afk, when he could have ran away or attacked me after 2 arrows.

I honestly have no idea how you are specced or equipped, but my ranger draws a crit shot on a 5.2 speed bow in 3.7 seconds, and regular shot a darn sight faster. And crit shot is 500-700 if I choose the right arrow, regular shot more like what you quote. Oh, and you will likely crit with at least one of those 6 normal shots even at base 10% chance.

Given that your first shot starts the fight at time 0...I dunno, you just aren’t doing it right. 7 arrows is only 6 draws after the initial shot and you should be critting on that first one Sorry, it is just math.

Not saying I am Uber or anything — I am distinctly mediocre. I will welcome a reason to have a bow spec over 30. But the situation isn’t as dire as all that.
Wed 6 May 2020 6:10 AM by Noashakra
Riac wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 10:20 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 10:14 PM
But why the nerf of the low spec bow? The problem was not the low level dmg... There is no reason for that.
it was pretty ridic that you got that dmg for free just due to auto train.

what? How is that ridiculous? 200dmg per shot with a 5.5 weapon with 14+15? in which world it's ricidulous? You hate makes you blind dude.
Wed 6 May 2020 6:59 AM by Riac
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 6:10 AM
Riac wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 10:20 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 10:14 PM
But why the nerf of the low spec bow? The problem was not the low level dmg... There is no reason for that.
it was pretty ridic that you got that dmg for free just due to auto train.

what? How is that ridiculous? 200dmg per shot with a 5.5 weapon with 14+15? in which world it's ricidulous? You hate makes you blind dude.
because you spent 0 points to get that dmg.
Wed 6 May 2020 7:55 AM by aenne
Parole=

I haven't played a Hunter or a Ranger on this server but do they generally see archery as being weak in their desired spec? I know archery dmg is usually around 480-550dmg for crit shot and 180-200dmg on a regular shot for a Scout.

I will attempt to walk you through how I see archery as not being viable in it's current form. I will only speak to Scout as that is my experience on Phoenix.

Scout has no truesight vs assasins (if they get popped they can snare/slam/snare and get away) - relegated to just avoiding assassins if possible. Let's have the archer fight something else for this example (melee class assumed).

Thane vs Scout - assuming 35-45 Bow spec
Thane has approx. 2000 HP + Heart of Legion + heal pot + IP2. This is probably close to 3600HP of health for the archer to overcome. Scout opens with a crit shot and does 550 dmg, followed up by two shots of 200dmg each, at least one of these follow up shots will be blocked. Players engage in combat. Thane has a health pool of approx. 2850HP left for the scout to chew through somehow. He can try to melee, scout has GREAT shield defense but Thane has similar. We can try to exchange blows in melee or we can plan to slam, snare, escape and/or kite. Thane uses both his insta DDs at start of melee combat (approx. 250dmg+/-) Scout Slams, Thane Purges, Thane Slams, Scout purges. Scout Snares or Thane can use Static Tempest - Thane can reslam the scout because of Static tempest reset and either melee and/or use insta DDs and castable DDs on Scout. Scout will not be able to overcome this dmg in melee and would eventually lose. Assuming the scout can live through the second slam (I think he can) he uses his IP2, heart of Legion, heal pot to just live to fight another day and snares the Thane. (thane will be casting on him until he is out of 1500range) - but alas he just has to run away and has no chance to win rps vs this or similar melee target. Only way to fix this is to either give the scout more melee dmg or more dmg for his archery shots so that he can survive the ensuing punishment once he is engaged in melee combat with a foe. I could probably make a scenario like this for 70% of the melee classes in the game vs a scout. Ranger would be much better off with his melee in this scenario vs the Thane because his dual wield vs the Thane shield.

If the scout is not supposed to be a melee class then the ranged opening dps needs to make up for the lack of melee dps needed later in a fight.


---------

separate rant - Crit shot - slam - Crit shot. Currently there is a timer that does not allow for multiple crit shots to a target. This was not how crit shot worked on other servers I have played on. My experience was that if a class was running or fighting (not stunned) the crit shot would change to a regular shot. On Phoenix if my target is stationary and I shoot it with a crit shot, then slam a few seconds later, I cannot crit shot again (even though they are stunned).

I personally don't think we need extra procs on bow shots, just increase dmg for regular shots, and crit shots, make truesight an RA and allow a target to be crit shot multiple times if they are stationary or stunned.




I play a ranger and now give you my example with a thane: critshot 400, with luck and correct arrows, then a quick shot afterwards 1 hit = 140, then block block parried. then melee and if you think I would be melee god you are wrong. weapon on 51, tested with piers and slash, 39 cd and !! 330 DEX !! the left hand is sooooo many .. miss miss miss = its a joke, all ra rdy .... = dead. run away with speed, no option = rupt-- speed away, instant dd, s = dead
That's the reality!!

scout = slam or snare and run away = save !!
hunter = run away and pet hit thane = save !!
ranger = slam or pet, no = dead

But that shouldn't make sense to a bogner, if you attack you should also have a fair chance to win, that should apply to all 3 classes. moreover, don't just be a victim for assassins

hence my suggestion; basically bow dmg high AND what bogner ALWAYS had camouflage back. and since we're playing with nf and new ra here, bogner FINALLY gives us the original ra, MOS. that would help the bogners !!
Wed 6 May 2020 8:21 AM by Centenario
Delegator wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:37 AM
Centenario wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 6:08 PM
I went to try out my Scout in the RvR task, I was lucky to find an afk player, it took me 7 arrows to take him down, 242 damage by arrow, 3.5sec draw time, to it took me around 25sec, by which time, i got added.
It just feels awful to take 25second of arrows to kill somebody afk, when he could have ran away or attacked me after 2 arrows.
I honestly have no idea how you are specced or equipped, but my ranger draws a crit shot on a 5.2 speed bow in 3.7 seconds, and regular shot a darn sight faster. And crit shot is 500-700 if I choose the right arrow, regular shot more like what you quote. Oh, and you will likely crit with at least one of those 6 normal shots even at base 10% chance.
Given that your first shot starts the fight at time 0...I dunno, you just aren’t doing it right. 7 arrows is only 6 draws after the initial shot and you should be critting on that first one Sorry, it is just math.
Not saying I am Uber or anything — I am distinctly mediocre. I will welcome a reason to have a bow spec over 30. But the situation isn’t as dire as all that.
286 DEX
45+13 Archery
Falcon 3
AugDex3
No crit on the 7 arrows with 19% crit, and using the right arrows for 242 damage per arrow, 3.5 draw on regular shot on a 5.5 bow.
16.5 at 98% quality bow 5.5 speed
Wed 6 May 2020 8:44 AM by inoeth
Centenario wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 8:21 AM
Delegator wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:37 AM
Centenario wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 6:08 PM
I went to try out my Scout in the RvR task, I was lucky to find an afk player, it took me 7 arrows to take him down, 242 damage by arrow, 3.5sec draw time, to it took me around 25sec, by which time, i got added.
It just feels awful to take 25second of arrows to kill somebody afk, when he could have ran away or attacked me after 2 arrows.
I honestly have no idea how you are specced or equipped, but my ranger draws a crit shot on a 5.2 speed bow in 3.7 seconds, and regular shot a darn sight faster. And crit shot is 500-700 if I choose the right arrow, regular shot more like what you quote. Oh, and you will likely crit with at least one of those 6 normal shots even at base 10% chance.
Given that your first shot starts the fight at time 0...I dunno, you just aren’t doing it right. 7 arrows is only 6 draws after the initial shot and you should be critting on that first one Sorry, it is just math.
Not saying I am Uber or anything — I am distinctly mediocre. I will welcome a reason to have a bow spec over 30. But the situation isn’t as dire as all that.
286 DEX
45+13 Archery
Falcon 3
AugDex3
No crit on the 7 arrows with 19% crit, and using the right arrows for 242 damage per arrow, 3.5 draw on regular shot on a 5.5 bow.
16.5 at 98% quality bow 5.5 speed

286 dex with dex3? 98% quali bow?! 45 bow spec?! what is it? highlander scout?
Wed 6 May 2020 8:51 AM by Centenario
Who cares?
I am not SC scout, missing around 25dex, might be 10 more or 20more damage.
Fresh 50 for casual player feedback
Wed 6 May 2020 9:13 AM by inoeth
Centenario wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 8:51 AM
Who cares?
I am not SC scout, missing around 25dex, might be 10 more or 20more damage.
Fresh 50 for casual player feedback

ah no sc
well i was just curious
Wed 6 May 2020 10:29 AM by Noashakra
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 6:59 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 6:10 AM
Riac wrote: ↑
Tue 5 May 2020 10:20 PM
it was pretty ridic that you got that dmg for free just due to auto train.

what? How is that ridiculous? 200dmg per shot with a 5.5 weapon with 14+15? in which world it's ricidulous? You hate makes you blind dude.
because you spent 0 points to get that dmg.

And? Sins also have an auto train man. Stop being angry over nothing.
Wed 6 May 2020 11:01 AM by chois
Welcome in a realm without self spe buff so albion😉
Wed 6 May 2020 1:43 PM by Strikejk
Do I understand this correctly that the realistic damage is basically 25% higher than the listed one because, lets not kid ourself, there is not a single archer in this game that does not use max level arrows and such always get the 1.25x modifier ?
Wed 6 May 2020 2:21 PM by Delegator
From my ranger's and hunter's perspective the change looks reasonable (note: have at least 12 level 50s of various classes, so I will see this from both sides). Removing the extra destealth chance on crit shot was a much better idea than adding an effect to higher level crit shot, and from what I saw today damage wasn't massively different but a bit better.

It reminds me of the hunter changes to buff the pet that made the class actually playable but not overpowered. And these changes still require spec choices; I am sticking with 39 bow and decent melee for the evade stun, a friend is going to go 45 bow for higher range damage. I still couldn't take down a hunter in a crit shot plus 3 normal, and had to go to melee for the end fight. Which is OK...nobody should be able to kill with impunity from range.
Wed 6 May 2020 2:24 PM by Riac
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 10:29 AM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 6:59 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 6:10 AM
what? How is that ridiculous? 200dmg per shot with a 5.5 weapon with 14+15? in which world it's ricidulous? You hate makes you blind dude.
because you spent 0 points to get that dmg.

And? Sins also have an auto train man. Stop being angry over nothing.
my auto train doent give me free dmg. you could argue i get to use those points that i would otherwise use in stealth on other spec lines, but it provides no where near the util and dmg the 14 bow does.
im sword spec atm, if i put 14 in axe do you think id do the dmg you bow does? i dont.
Wed 6 May 2020 3:40 PM by Centenario
Strikejk wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 1:43 PM
Do I understand this correctly that the realistic damage is basically 25% higher than the listed one because, lets not kid ourself, there is not a single archer in this game that does not use max level arrows and such always get the 1.25x modifier ?

On Page 21 of this thread, Gruneschaff made a list of the avg damage on capped defense from archery, before and after.
At 65 archery, the avg damage would be improved from 251 to 344= 1.37 or 37% increase.
If you use the 1.25x arrow you should hit at 430? That would already be a little better.
Wed 6 May 2020 3:55 PM by thirian24
I'm being hit by scouts for 880+220 crit. I'm guessing that's a crit shot. I have 1848 HP. Couple that with the cheese ass snare style. Fuckin. Wow. Rofl
Wed 6 May 2020 4:29 PM by dbeattie71
Changes are nice. In a keep defense casters can’t ignore arrows sticking out of them like they aggrod a green con mob anymore.
Wed 6 May 2020 4:37 PM by Centenario
I tested with a fellow scout:
With critshot on the dummy he hit for 792 and 1010 (capped at 1086) on me cause im not SCed and in studded, i think the dummy are capped AF 27% abs.
He had 326 dex while buffed, with mp 5.5 bow, 50+18 bow.
It looked to be correct enough damage, I wish I could reach that now to test it in RvR and give feedback.
A 5.5 bow mp is 3plats at auction, maybe more soon

Looks good!
Wed 6 May 2020 4:54 PM by Noashakra
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 2:24 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 10:29 AM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 6:59 AM
because you spent 0 points to get that dmg.

And? Sins also have an auto train man. Stop being angry over nothing.
my auto train doent give me free dmg. you could argue i get to use those points that i would otherwise use in stealth on other spec lines, but it provides no where near the util and dmg the 14 bow does.
im sword spec atm, if i put 14 in axe do you think id do the dmg you bow does? i dont.

It's because you are not subpar in melee. Utility and dmg with 14 bow? You hit once or twice at 200 on a tank if you are lucky before you get face/block/interupted, no bt pierce, no rapide fire. Fucking A.
Wed 6 May 2020 4:55 PM by Riac
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:54 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 2:24 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 10:29 AM
And? Sins also have an auto train man. Stop being angry over nothing.
my auto train doent give me free dmg. you could argue i get to use those points that i would otherwise use in stealth on other spec lines, but it provides no where near the util and dmg the 14 bow does.
im sword spec atm, if i put 14 in axe do you think id do the dmg you bow does? i dont.

It's because you are not subpar in melee. Utility and dmg with 14 bow? You hit once or twice at 200 on a tank if you are lucky before you get face/block/interupted, no bt pierce, no rapide fire. Fucking A.
200 pretty spicy for no investment. you disagree? also, a melee ranger being subpar in melee is a bit of a stretch.
Wed 6 May 2020 4:56 PM by Noashakra
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:55 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:54 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 2:24 PM
my auto train doent give me free dmg. you could argue i get to use those points that i would otherwise use in stealth on other spec lines, but it provides no where near the util and dmg the 14 bow does.
im sword spec atm, if i put 14 in axe do you think id do the dmg you bow does? i dont.

It's because you are not subpar in melee. Utility and dmg with 14 bow? You hit once or twice at 200 on a tank if you are lucky before you get face/block/interupted, no bt pierce, no rapide fire. Fucking A.
200 pretty spicy for no investment. you disagree?

I could do 200 with 1 in LW with a hero, what's your point?
Wed 6 May 2020 4:56 PM by Riac
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:56 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:55 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:54 PM
It's because you are not subpar in melee. Utility and dmg with 14 bow? You hit once or twice at 200 on a tank if you are lucky before you get face/block/interupted, no bt pierce, no rapide fire. Fucking A.
200 pretty spicy for no investment. you disagree?

I could do 200 with 1 in LW with a hero, what's your point?
id like to see that.
and my point is 200 ranged attacks for 0 investment is really good. you obviously think its good as well, thats why youre mad they took it from you.
Wed 6 May 2020 5:11 PM by Noashakra
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:56 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:56 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:55 PM
200 pretty spicy for no investment. you disagree?

I could do 200 with 1 in LW with a hero, what's your point?
id like to see that.
and my point is 200 ranged attacks for 0 investment is really good. you obviously think its good as well, thats why youre mad they took it from you.

I don't think it's good, I think it's fair. What wasn't fair is to invest more points and not get the benefits.
Wed 6 May 2020 5:14 PM by Riac
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 5:11 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:56 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:56 PM
I could do 200 with 1 in LW with a hero, what's your point?
id like to see that.
and my point is 200 ranged attacks for 0 investment is really good. you obviously think its good as well, thats why youre mad they took it from you.

I don't think it's good, I think it's fair. What wasn't fair is to invest more points and not get the benefits.
lol ok, certainly not biased.
while ill agree speccing in archery up to 50 did not have good return. however this allowed you to get a split spec and have pretty much all bow had to offer while still having a decent melee spec.
but full melee ranger having that much dmg on bow was dumb, and dont try to pretned melee rangers are subpar in melee. they are not.
Wed 6 May 2020 5:25 PM by Noashakra
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 5:14 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 5:11 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:56 PM
id like to see that.
and my point is 200 ranged attacks for 0 investment is really good. you obviously think its good as well, thats why youre mad they took it from you.

I don't think it's good, I think it's fair. What wasn't fair is to invest more points and not get the benefits.
lol ok, certainly not biased.
while ill agree speccing in archery up to 50 did not have good return. however this allowed you to get a split spec and have pretty much all bow had to offer while still having a decent melee spec.
but full melee ranger having that much dmg on bow was dumb, and dont try to pretned melee rangers are subpar in melee. they are not.

They are, you need IP up and purge up to have a chance against all melee classes of the same rank. Even with that, it's a 50/50 chances to win.
Wed 6 May 2020 5:29 PM by Riac
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 5:25 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 5:14 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 5:11 PM
I don't think it's good, I think it's fair. What wasn't fair is to invest more points and not get the benefits.
lol ok, certainly not biased.
while ill agree speccing in archery up to 50 did not have good return. however this allowed you to get a split spec and have pretty much all bow had to offer while still having a decent melee spec.
but full melee ranger having that much dmg on bow was dumb, and dont try to pretned melee rangers are subpar in melee. they are not.

They are, you need IP up and purge up to have a chance against all melee classes of the same rank. Even with that, it's a 50/50 chances to win.
considering i need viper 5 and purge also, im not seeing your point.
Wed 6 May 2020 5:54 PM by Cruella
any experiences with the new changes yet?

Latest Patch Notes (May 6th):
- pvp zone group cap is 4 for today
- archer / ranged damage now has an additional multiplier based on spec
- penetrating arrow 2 now also penetrates self casted bt at 50% damage
- nocking critical shot no longer has an increased chance to unstealth the archer
Wed 6 May 2020 6:50 PM by Noashakra
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 5:29 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 5:25 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 5:14 PM
lol ok, certainly not biased.
while ill agree speccing in archery up to 50 did not have good return. however this allowed you to get a split spec and have pretty much all bow had to offer while still having a decent melee spec.
but full melee ranger having that much dmg on bow was dumb, and dont try to pretned melee rangers are subpar in melee. they are not.

They are, you need IP up and purge up to have a chance against all melee classes of the same rank. Even with that, it's a 50/50 chances to win.
considering i need viper 5 and purge also, im not seeing your point.

viper 5 is not on a 15mn timer
Wed 6 May 2020 7:45 PM by Riac
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 6:50 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 5:29 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 5:25 PM
They are, you need IP up and purge up to have a chance against all melee classes of the same rank. Even with that, it's a 50/50 chances to win.
considering i need viper 5 and purge also, im not seeing your point.

viper 5 is not on a 15mn timer
just like you need ip and purge to be competitive against ppl your own rank. i also need viper 5 AND purge up to be competitive against ppl my own rank.
im not beating too many rank 9 ppl w/o purge up, regardless of viper 5. sure, its great for dumping on low rrs and holding purge, but melee rangers can do the same thing.
its all good though. having you laughed at in disc is enough for me.
Wed 6 May 2020 10:29 PM by Noashakra
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 7:45 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 6:50 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 5:29 PM
considering i need viper 5 and purge also, im not seeing your point.

viper 5 is not on a 15mn timer
just like you need ip and purge to be competitive against ppl your own rank. i also need viper 5 AND purge up to be competitive against ppl my own rank.
im not beating too many rank 9 ppl w/o purge up, regardless of viper 5. sure, its great for dumping on low rrs and holding purge, but melee rangers can do the same thing.
its all good though. having you laughed at in disc is enough for me.

Having IP AND purge at the same time is not happening all the time. Also purge 4 is every 7.5mn and IP is 15mn. If I could have something like viper, I would trade it for IP anyday (perma burst dps > IP 15mn because you have more chances to get adds).
I am gald you make an appeal to popularit to make a point, but one fallacious argument more or not, why bother at this point.

When I brought the fact that some classes get abilities or spells like the NS with the instant DD and the DD for free with leveling to counter you point of "you get 12 points in bow for free and it does 200 damage, how unfair is that" you didn't even try to reply with a counter argument.
Wed 6 May 2020 10:59 PM by Riac
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 10:29 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 7:45 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 6:50 PM
viper 5 is not on a 15mn timer
just like you need ip and purge to be competitive against ppl your own rank. i also need viper 5 AND purge up to be competitive against ppl my own rank.
im not beating too many rank 9 ppl w/o purge up, regardless of viper 5. sure, its great for dumping on low rrs and holding purge, but melee rangers can do the same thing.
its all good though. having you laughed at in disc is enough for me.

Having IP AND purge at the same time is not happening all the time. Also purge 4 is every 7.5mn and IP is 15mn. If I could have something like viper, I would trade it for IP anyday (perma burst dps > IP 15mn because you have more chances to get adds).
I am gald you make an appeal to popularit to make a point, but one fallacious argument more or not, why bother at this point.

When I brought the fact that some classes get abilities or spells like the NS with the instant DD and the DD for free with leveling to counter you point of "you get 12 points in bow for free and it does 200 damage, how unfair is that" you didn't even try to reply with a counter argument.
that moment when you find out that dots are burst dmg.
its apples to oranges comparison. you even said why the NS get that shit and now all the sudden you want to forget why lol.
the counter is 200 dmg for no investment is a bit high, which is why it was toned down.
still waiting on that pick of the hero doing 200 dmg with 1 in lw btw.
i appeal to popularity because in a discord full of ppl who know what they are talking about not only did no one agree with you, some said you are wrong and making dumb arguments. (its not just me)
Wed 6 May 2020 11:37 PM by jk123
In Siege fight the dmg increase had no impact on the fights.
Doesn't feel very powerful at 45+14 bow spec atm on a scout.
Scout has only 218 Quickness (cap template), needs 3 (full!) realm ranks of aug quickness to get to 250 qui to be on par with rangers shooting speed,
which they get for about 2 realmpoints.

There is a difference in dmg now between higher spec, and it appears to be a significant one: every point counts.
When i specced to 42+14 bow i could only hit the test dummies for 635 dmg, while at 45+14 it was already 662 dmg.

Needs further testing. Might respec my ranger full bow tommorrow to see what 50+18 bow can do.
Thu 7 May 2020 12:33 AM by easytoremember
Pre-patch Criticalshot was already hitting a cloth caught without bubble hard
Post-patch they are getting hit even harder when their bubble is not up. The damage on a penetrated bubble seems fine

I think Criticalshot should be exempted from the change like Volley was, then the %penetration vs bubble increased to match its current amount
Thu 7 May 2020 4:09 AM by CubanXv
This change was fantastic. I am not longer just wrecked by everything and it still feels very fair vs sins. Regardless of what these sins are complaining about they have a gigantic tool kit to deal with us and our "cheezy" snare. Infs can still xbow us , ns can still cast on us, the tools are there. Oh did I mention the plethora of poisons that can disease, snare, and debuff us? Oh on top of garrote, yeah let me know how far they got away after you got that wonderful combo. Sins have that "cheezy" snare built right into their kit and MANY use it. Every competent sin I have fought since the change has been right on top of the proper rotation to keep us from getting away, snare or not. Still a death sentence to be PA'd and CD without purge up. This change compliments the rock paper scissors play the game was known for. Have I gotten some kills on them? Yes. Is that a bad thing to have an occasional win? No. GJ devs bringing archers back into the fold.
Thu 7 May 2020 6:02 AM by Noashakra
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 10:59 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 10:29 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 7:45 PM
just like you need ip and purge to be competitive against ppl your own rank. i also need viper 5 AND purge up to be competitive against ppl my own rank.
im not beating too many rank 9 ppl w/o purge up, regardless of viper 5. sure, its great for dumping on low rrs and holding purge, but melee rangers can do the same thing.
its all good though. having you laughed at in disc is enough for me.

Having IP AND purge at the same time is not happening all the time. Also purge 4 is every 7.5mn and IP is 15mn. If I could have something like viper, I would trade it for IP anyday (perma burst dps > IP 15mn because you have more chances to get adds).
I am gald you make an appeal to popularit to make a point, but one fallacious argument more or not, why bother at this point.

When I brought the fact that some classes get abilities or spells like the NS with the instant DD and the DD for free with leveling to counter you point of "you get 12 points in bow for free and it does 200 damage, how unfair is that" you didn't even try to reply with a counter argument.
that moment when you find out that dots are burst dmg.
its apples to oranges comparison. you even said why the NS get that shit and now all the sudden you want to forget why lol.
the counter is 200 dmg for no investment is a bit high, which is why it was toned down.
still waiting on that pick of the hero doing 200 dmg with 1 in lw btw.
i appeal to popularity because in a discord full of ppl who know what they are talking about not only did no one agree with you, some said you are wrong and making dumb arguments. (its not just me)

You still provide no argument about why, you have no argument man. I am glad you think my arguments are dumb, when you never give any yourself.
"you get it for free" is not an argument, the class was design this way. Instead of having a DD and an instand DD, or 2.5 point per level, or a higher dmg melee table, we got a spec with auto train that is doing 200dmg at 14 in bow with auto train. Still waiting for you arguments "bruh", and not your usual whinning about archers.
Thu 7 May 2020 9:30 AM by jk123
jk123 wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 11:37 PM
In Siege fight the dmg increase had no impact on the fights.
Doesn't feel very powerful at 45+14 bow spec atm on a scout.
Scout has only 218 Quickness (cap template), needs 3 (full!) realm ranks of aug quickness to get to 250 qui to be on par with rangers shooting speed,
which they get for about 2 realmpoints.

There is a difference in dmg now between higher spec, and it appears to be a significant one: every point counts.
When i specced to 42+14 bow i could only hit the test dummies for 635 dmg, while at 45+14 it was already 662 dmg.

Needs further testing. Might respec my ranger full bow tommorrow to see what 50+18 bow can do.

Critshot dmg on Test Dummy with 50+18 bow(5.5 Spd) on Ranger with 323 Dex=795 dmg
Thu 7 May 2020 10:06 AM by Vangonaj
Bow damage still sux. Should be much better. Bow classes are part of this game, and if you hate them maybe you should change the game, and stop nerf them.
Thu 7 May 2020 10:26 AM by Noashakra
The problem is not the dmg, but the defenses. Dmg is fine in the end now for high bow spec.
Engage should not have 99% chances to bloc an arrow.
A crit shot from stealth should not be able to be bloc/evade/parry
Thu 7 May 2020 10:42 AM by Vangonaj
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 10:26 AM
The problem is not the dmg, but the defenses. Dmg is fine in the end now for high bow spec.
Engage should not have 99% chances to bloc an arrow.
A crit shot from stealth should not be able to be bloc/evade/parry

270damage full buffed with 5.5speed bow its ok? Maybe at level 25.
Thu 7 May 2020 11:12 AM by Noashakra
Vangonaj wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 10:42 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 10:26 AM
The problem is not the dmg, but the defenses. Dmg is fine in the end now for high bow spec.
Engage should not have 99% chances to bloc an arrow.
A crit shot from stealth should not be able to be bloc/evade/parry

270damage full buffed with 5.5speed bow its ok? Maybe at level 25.

at which draw speed, spec level and on which target lol
Thu 7 May 2020 11:33 AM by Vangonaj
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 11:12 AM
Vangonaj wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 10:42 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 10:26 AM
The problem is not the dmg, but the defenses. Dmg is fine in the end now for high bow spec.
Engage should not have 99% chances to bloc an arrow.
A crit shot from stealth should not be able to be bloc/evade/parry

270damage full buffed with 5.5speed bow its ok? Maybe at level 25.

at which draw speed, spec level and on which target lol

45 + 15 bow and on casters. Vs tanks it much lower.
Thu 7 May 2020 12:24 PM by Centenario
If we agree that the role of archer is to:
- Scout ahead for BG
- Stealth zerg strategic areas
- Ad fights of 8v8 to swing the odds

I think archers need buffs in:
- damage -> quickdraw/quickcast to be able to shoot while interrupted
- interrupt potential -> Instant long range ability like taunt or bard amnesia
- stealth speed/trap - > more stealth walk speed than assassins classes and maybe some roottrap against stealthers
- escape strength -> Some kinda baseline vanish ability

Quickdraw ability could be obtained at 39 bow, as it should be a signature move of sniper specs, who do not do as much damage as melee specs.

Amnesia/taunt long range interrupt can be a quickaim ability from bow line again, maybe at around 32 bow, for balanced builds.

Stealth speed should be like mastery of stealth but faster than assassins classes.

Stealth trap should be part of the stealth line and be obtained at 9/19/29 stealth, it is a root effect 10/20/30sec duration, with 1min immunity, it should be a 2min duration trap, max 1 deployed, can be removed, groundtarget 0 placement, unstealthed while casted so that assassin can see you are there and can try to remember where it has been placed, 3sec cast time, no cost, 5sec cooldown.

Baseline Vanish ability, should be a class ability like dual wield classes get at lvl 30:
7.5min cd
Cannot attack for 1min after use
Gives invisibility like vanish
Can only be used while stealthed or while mezzed/rooted <- to prevent skald/casters from being the only one to be able to reset the fight and also when a 8v8 bus run through you you can just stay invisible.
Thu 7 May 2020 1:31 PM by Noashakra
Vangonaj wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 11:33 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 11:12 AM
Vangonaj wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 10:42 AM
270damage full buffed with 5.5speed bow its ok? Maybe at level 25.

at which draw speed, spec level and on which target lol

45 + 15 bow and on casters. Vs tanks it much lower.

At which draw speed...
Thu 7 May 2020 3:52 PM by Riac
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 6:02 AM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 10:59 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 10:29 PM
Having IP AND purge at the same time is not happening all the time. Also purge 4 is every 7.5mn and IP is 15mn. If I could have something like viper, I would trade it for IP anyday (perma burst dps > IP 15mn because you have more chances to get adds).
I am gald you make an appeal to popularit to make a point, but one fallacious argument more or not, why bother at this point.

When I brought the fact that some classes get abilities or spells like the NS with the instant DD and the DD for free with leveling to counter you point of "you get 12 points in bow for free and it does 200 damage, how unfair is that" you didn't even try to reply with a counter argument.
that moment when you find out that dots are burst dmg.
its apples to oranges comparison. you even said why the NS get that shit and now all the sudden you want to forget why lol.
the counter is 200 dmg for no investment is a bit high, which is why it was toned down.
still waiting on that pick of the hero doing 200 dmg with 1 in lw btw.
i appeal to popularity because in a discord full of ppl who know what they are talking about not only did no one agree with you, some said you are wrong and making dumb arguments. (its not just me)

You still provide no argument about why, you have no argument man. I am glad you think my arguments are dumb, when you never give any yourself.
"you get it for free" is not an argument, the class was design this way. Instead of having a DD and an instand DD, or 2.5 point per level, or a higher dmg melee table, we got a spec with auto train that is doing 200dmg at 14 in bow with auto train. Still waiting for you arguments "bruh", and not your usual whinning about archers.
the dumbest ranger on the server right here.
Thu 7 May 2020 4:06 PM by Xanthippus
Yup, archers have been made ridiculously overpowered now. My 8l5 ranger is one shotting temped casters. It's way too much. Please don't make it as worthless as it was before, but it needs to be toned down... a LOT.
Thu 7 May 2020 4:23 PM by gromet12
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 1:31 PM
Vangonaj wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 11:33 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 11:12 AM
at which draw speed, spec level and on which target lol

45 + 15 bow and on casters. Vs tanks it much lower.

At which draw speed...

Going to jump in, but why does draw speed matter when stating dmg? The draw speed doesn’t reduce the dmg for archery since it is base dmg, that’s why quick and Moa are nice though they tend to help the slowest weapons (thus albs and hibs more). The question should be what DEX as that will effect the dmg

I tried my hunter, regular shots on dummies was 211, it was not much higher when I checked at 250s last night. This is still less than my melee 2handers skald due to the weapon speed with less dmg stat, the hunter is at 315 dex irrc. My draw speed is 2.5secs on a 5.0 weapon for regular
Thu 7 May 2020 5:18 PM by Noashakra
Riac wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 3:52 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 6:02 AM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 10:59 PM
that moment when you find out that dots are burst dmg.
its apples to oranges comparison. you even said why the NS get that shit and now all the sudden you want to forget why lol.
the counter is 200 dmg for no investment is a bit high, which is why it was toned down.
still waiting on that pick of the hero doing 200 dmg with 1 in lw btw.
i appeal to popularity because in a discord full of ppl who know what they are talking about not only did no one agree with you, some said you are wrong and making dumb arguments. (its not just me)

You still provide no argument about why, you have no argument man. I am glad you think my arguments are dumb, when you never give any yourself.
"you get it for free" is not an argument, the class was design this way. Instead of having a DD and an instand DD, or 2.5 point per level, or a higher dmg melee table, we got a spec with auto train that is doing 200dmg at 14 in bow with auto train. Still waiting for you arguments "bruh", and not your usual whinning about archers.
the dumbest ranger on the server right here.

Still no why, no surprise.
Thu 7 May 2020 5:33 PM by Riac
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 5:18 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 3:52 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 6:02 AM
You still provide no argument about why, you have no argument man. I am glad you think my arguments are dumb, when you never give any yourself.
"you get it for free" is not an argument, the class was design this way. Instead of having a DD and an instand DD, or 2.5 point per level, or a higher dmg melee table, we got a spec with auto train that is doing 200dmg at 14 in bow with auto train. Still waiting for you arguments "bruh", and not your usual whinning about archers.
the dumbest ranger on the server right here.

Still no why, no surprise.
which part of the underline are you referring to? what is the "why" question? why is 200 dmg for free a bit high? why do you get the 200 dmg for free?
200 dmg for free is high because its free and its not the same as a ns getting the dd. AS EXPLAINED BY YOU (even though you like to pretend you didnt say it in disc, and everyone pointed out its unrelated but you still like to bring it up.), the ns gets the dd to compete with the infs extra spec, and the sbs extra str. its unique to that class
free 200 dmg on bow is not unique to any class. its the same for hunters and scouts. its was high because it was free. obvisouly im not the only one that thought it was high, seeing as the devs adjusted the scaling (and fucked it up honestly. archers are hitting ppl for around 900 with crits, which is crazy)
useing you same logic i could just say a free 500 dmg on my auto train bow is fair. tell me why its not ??? hell why not a thousand for free? tell me why its not fair. mercs get dirty tricks for free....
also, see how one has nothing to do with the other? mercs and auto train bow dmg is unrelated. one is a skill and the other is a scaling spec.
Thu 7 May 2020 5:42 PM by Noashakra
Getting 12 free points in archery which does 200dmg per shot is on paper exactly the same as giving the NS a dd she doesn't have to spend points to have.
"It's free" is not an argument about why it's balanced or not. You have to check the class as a whole, how it affects the balance of the game etc. And two friends of you agrering with you doesn't make it true. If it "too much" show me example of people with 12 in bow overperforming with this ability. I am waiting.
If the ranger/hunter/scout had the str and/or the dmg table of tank, yeah it would be too much.

I can crit shot a skald, hit him with two more arrows, and he would will still destoy me. Same for any tank. I can use it vs sins, tell me how is "too spicy"

useing you same logic i could just say a free 500 dmg on my auto train bow is fair. tell me why its not ??? hell why not a thousand for free? tell me why its not fair. mercs get dirty tricks for free....
it's not my logic, you stawman me again, and it's getting annoying to be honest.
Thu 7 May 2020 7:20 PM by thirian24
Vangonaj wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 10:06 AM
Bow damage still sux. Should be much better. Bow classes are part of this game, and if you hate them maybe you should change the game, and stop nerf them.

Lol.. you are crazy.

Yesterday I was being hit by 2 different archers.

One dude hit me consistently for 880 +221 crit, not including regular shots. Another guy critshot me for 960. How is that low?

So I hoped on my Ranger to see what the dmg was like. I critshot Beavercleaver (SB) for 890 with a follow up shot of 450.

Please do explain how this is low dmg?
Thu 7 May 2020 7:35 PM by Riac
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 5:42 PM
Getting 12 free points in archery which does 200dmg per shot is on paper exactly the same as giving the NS a dd she doesn't have to spend points to have.
"It's free" is not an argument about why it's balanced or not. You have to check the class as a whole, how it affects the balance of the game etc. And two friends of you agrering with you doesn't make it true. If it "too much" show me example of people with 12 in bow overperforming with this ability. I am waiting.
If the ranger/hunter/scout had the str and/or the dmg table of tank, yeah it would be too much.

I can crit shot a skald, hit him with two more arrows, and he would will still destoy me. Same for any tank. I can use it vs sins, tell me how is "too spicy"

useing you same logic i could just say a free 500 dmg on my auto train bow is fair. tell me why its not ??? hell why not a thousand for free? tell me why its not fair. mercs get dirty tricks for free....
it's not my logic, you stawman me again, and it's getting annoying to be honest.
opening w/ bow vs a skald is a terrible example (how many times are you gonna cherrypick this btw? if its not good vs skald its not good at all?). however opening with bow vs a champ or someone else that has limited ranged abils is very beneficial to you. skalds are jsut bad example because they have a mezz with decent range. youve already tried to use this example and the other melee ranger had to explain to you how to fight a skald.
i fail to see how that is not the exact same logic.
considering one is a rank 8 melee ranger, id say their opinion carries a bit of weight. the other person agreeing with me is very well known and respected sb. but it really doesnt matter it was nerfed and for good reason.
also, still waiting on that pic of the hero with 1 in LW doing 200 dmg. or did you make that up and its no possible? (you made it up lol. that very same sb logged on their war and tested that one out already)
Thu 7 May 2020 7:59 PM by Vangonaj
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 1:31 PM
Vangonaj wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 11:33 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 11:12 AM
at which draw speed, spec level and on which target lol

45 + 15 bow and on casters. Vs tanks it much lower.

At which draw speed...

3.7 sec, and 4.4 with critshot.
Thu 7 May 2020 8:27 PM by Noashakra
Riac wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 7:35 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 5:42 PM
Getting 12 free points in archery which does 200dmg per shot is on paper exactly the same as giving the NS a dd she doesn't have to spend points to have.
"It's free" is not an argument about why it's balanced or not. You have to check the class as a whole, how it affects the balance of the game etc. And two friends of you agrering with you doesn't make it true. If it "too much" show me example of people with 12 in bow overperforming with this ability. I am waiting.
If the ranger/hunter/scout had the str and/or the dmg table of tank, yeah it would be too much.

I can crit shot a skald, hit him with two more arrows, and he would will still destoy me. Same for any tank. I can use it vs sins, tell me how is "too spicy"

useing you same logic i could just say a free 500 dmg on my auto train bow is fair. tell me why its not ??? hell why not a thousand for free? tell me why its not fair. mercs get dirty tricks for free....
it's not my logic, you stawman me again, and it's getting annoying to be honest.
opening w/ bow vs a skald is a terrible example (how many times are you gonna cherrypick this btw? if its not good vs skald its not good at all?). however opening with bow vs a champ or someone else that has limited ranged abils is very beneficial to you. skalds are jsut bad example because they have a mezz with decent range. youve already tried to use this example and the other melee ranger had to explain to you how to fight a skald.
i fail to see how that is not the exact same logic.
considering one is a rank 8 melee ranger, id say their opinion carries a bit of weight. the other person agreeing with me is very well known and respected sb. but it really doesnt matter it was nerfed and for good reason.
also, still waiting on that pic of the hero with 1 in LW doing 200 dmg. or did you make that up and its no possible? (you made it up lol. that very same sb logged on their war and tested that one out already)

Rofl, if you don't open with crit shot + a few shots vs a skald, you have 0 chance to win, he will out dps you from the get go. How can you say it's a mistake to hit him for 500/600 before he is in contact? Wtf are you speaking about... And there are rank 9 melee rangers promoting 50PF 44 pierce spec, so your rank 0 value about the shit you can say (and I don't even remember this ranger spoke about skalds tbh)...

If you want to know if something is too good or not, "getting it for free" is not a good base to know if it's too good or not. You need to check the class as a whole, and compared to other classes in the game. A melee ranger is in the low tier of the character (it not the absolute worst but it's not as good as you say it is) but it's not a class that over performs (especially compared to sins...), so there was not needed to nerf the bow dammage.

There are only a few melee rangers, and maybe 3 or 4 that solo, because it's not a good performer. When I compare with NS, they can solo much easier and have a higher rp/hour. So tell me again, why do you nerf a class with those reasons? There was no justification for this nerf of the low spec bow.

Let's check :
https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/solokills
Oh 2 solo rangers in the top 50 who are melee (and for myself, a good part of my kills are xpers, I don't know for ifan), Definitly a class that overperforms and we deserved a nerf!
Your archer hate makes you blind to the truth. How many SB? 16? it's a third of the top 50. I think it's your class that overperforms and needs a nerf if we follow the numbers.
4 lone enforcers vs 23 and you dare to say "you shoot at 200 it's too spicy" come on bro get real...
https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/solokills?time-frame=all-time&filter=ranger
https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/solokills?time-frame=all-time&filter=shadowblade
19 inf and 20 NS have the title
Tell me again how "it's too spicy" when nobody plays the class solo ROFL.

And yeah I made up the 1 in LW.
Thu 7 May 2020 8:39 PM by Riac
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 8:27 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 7:35 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 5:42 PM
Getting 12 free points in archery which does 200dmg per shot is on paper exactly the same as giving the NS a dd she doesn't have to spend points to have.
"It's free" is not an argument about why it's balanced or not. You have to check the class as a whole, how it affects the balance of the game etc. And two friends of you agrering with you doesn't make it true. If it "too much" show me example of people with 12 in bow overperforming with this ability. I am waiting.
If the ranger/hunter/scout had the str and/or the dmg table of tank, yeah it would be too much.

I can crit shot a skald, hit him with two more arrows, and he would will still destoy me. Same for any tank. I can use it vs sins, tell me how is "too spicy"


it's not my logic, you stawman me again, and it's getting annoying to be honest.
opening w/ bow vs a skald is a terrible example (how many times are you gonna cherrypick this btw? if its not good vs skald its not good at all?). however opening with bow vs a champ or someone else that has limited ranged abils is very beneficial to you. skalds are jsut bad example because they have a mezz with decent range. youve already tried to use this example and the other melee ranger had to explain to you how to fight a skald.
i fail to see how that is not the exact same logic.
considering one is a rank 8 melee ranger, id say their opinion carries a bit of weight. the other person agreeing with me is very well known and respected sb. but it really doesnt matter it was nerfed and for good reason.
also, still waiting on that pic of the hero with 1 in LW doing 200 dmg. or did you make that up and its no possible? (you made it up lol. that very same sb logged on their war and tested that one out already)

Rofl, if you don't open with crit shot + a few shots vs a skald, you have 0 chance to win, he will out dps you from the get go. How can you say it's a mistake to hit him for 500/600 before he is in contact? Wtf are you speaking about... And there are rank 9 melee rangers promoting 50PF 44 pierce spec, so your rank 0 value about the shit you can say (and I don't even remember this ranger spoke about skalds tbh)...

If you want to know if something is too good or not, "getting it for free" is not a good base to know if it's too good or not. You need to check the class as a whole, and compared to other classes in the game. A melee ranger is in the low tier of the character (it not the absolute worst) but it's not a class that over performs (especially compared to sins...), so there was not needed to nerf the bow dammage.

There are only a few melee rangers, and maybe 3 or 4 that solo, because it's not a good performer. When I compare with NS, they can solo much easier and have a higher rp/hour. So tell me again, why do you nerf a class with those reasons? There was no justification for this nerf of the low spec bow.

Let's check :
https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/solokills
Oh 2 solo rangers in the top 50 who are melee (and for myself, a good part are xpers), Definitly a class that overperforms and we deserved a nerf!
Your archer hate makes you blind to the truth. How many SB? 16? it's a third of the top 50. I think it's your class that overperforms and needs a nerf if we follow the numbers.

And yeah I made up the 1 in LW.
no one feels like camping 15 min ip. to say that melee rangers are weak is outright wrong.
also opening side stun, especially if you have the side stun follow up, they have good growth rates, is better. also the 4 sec stun allows you to get 2 stuns in one fight (must be nice). (still not sure why you keep cherrypicking this skald shit. if its not good vs skald its not good at all?). not to mention that dex/que debuff is gonna have that dude swinging slow af. maybe if youd stop farming xpers on the way to uppland dock youd learn how to fight certain classes.
you also keep conflating abilities (like dt, and ns nukes) with spec skills. what other spec skill is as good as that bow was at 12 spec? none that i can think of.
since you keep talking about skalds. that pierce spec might be pretty good. not like youre lacking dex with ridiculous moa. most rangers go blades because they gave them off evade blade stun (for some reason) and they liked dumping on SBs.
with all CDs up melee rangers are very good. i cant believe youre even disputing that tbh.
enjoy your nerf.
still waiting on that pic of the hero with 1 in lw doing 200 dmg. you were so sure when you said it, it must be true.
Thu 7 May 2020 8:43 PM by Noashakra
You are so deep in your own a.. man, numbers are here, and I will tell you, melee ranger is bellow average. it's not like I have a hundread days of /play on it.
"Nobody want to camp IP and purge" > a class that is good once every 15mn is not a good class, how can you even make a case about that ROFL.
Even with IP and purge IP, I lose vs some low rank inf because they out dps you by a lot with viper, and MoP was nerfed to the ground.
And opening a skald with a side stun when the guy has speed 5, I can't even xD You can't be serious. It's so situational...

still waiting on that pic of the hero with 1 in lw doing 200 dmg. you were so sure when you said it, it must be true.

You don't even read

you also keep conflating abilities (like dt, and ns nukes) with spec skills. what other spec skill is as good as that bow was at 12 spec? none that i can think of.
You made clear that you don't understand that a class should be seen as a whole, I am not surprised.

Man because you are so good, and because you have the experience, come on hib and show us how you can make the ranger shine. I am waiting.
In the mean time, I am rolling a NS, because after the 10L, I want to play an actual good class.
Thu 7 May 2020 8:56 PM by Riac
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 8:43 PM
You are so deep in your own a.. man, numbers are here, and I will tell you, melee ranger is bellow average. it's not like I have a hundread days of /play on it.
"Nobody want to camp IP and purge" > a class that is good once every 15mn is not a good class, how can you even make a case about that ROFL.
Even with IP and purge IP, I lose vs some low rank inf because they out dps you by a lot with viper, and MoP was nerfed to the ground.
And opening a skald with a side stun when the guy has speed 5, I can't even xD You can't be serious. It's so situational...

still waiting on that pic of the hero with 1 in lw doing 200 dmg. you were so sure when you said it, it must be true.

You don't even read

you also keep conflating abilities (like dt, and ns nukes) with spec skills. what other spec skill is as good as that bow was at 12 spec? none that i can think of.
You made clear that you don't understand that a class should be seen as a whole, I am not surprised.

Man because you are so good, and because you have the experience, come on hib and show us how you can make the ranger shine. I am waiting.
lol he has speed 5 so you cant open with side stun? i open with BS on them ALL the time, its better than PA because they have no chance to react and i get to fully poison before they start swinging on me. i can get bs, you should be able to get side stun. just have to wait for them to come to you.
because a class isnt good at all times, its not a good class. got it.
tldr noa bad lol. keep farming xpers noob.
Thu 7 May 2020 8:58 PM by Riac
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:56 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:55 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:54 PM
It's because you are not subpar in melee. Utility and dmg with 14 bow? You hit once or twice at 200 on a tank if you are lucky before you get face/block/interupted, no bt pierce, no rapide fire. Fucking A.
200 pretty spicy for no investment. you disagree?

I could do 200 with 1 in LW with a hero, what's your point?
youre right, i cant read.
oof
Thu 7 May 2020 9:03 PM by Noashakra
Riac wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 8:56 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 8:43 PM
You are so deep in your own a.. man, numbers are here, and I will tell you, melee ranger is bellow average. it's not like I have a hundread days of /play on it.
"Nobody want to camp IP and purge" > a class that is good once every 15mn is not a good class, how can you even make a case about that ROFL.
Even with IP and purge IP, I lose vs some low rank inf because they out dps you by a lot with viper, and MoP was nerfed to the ground.
And opening a skald with a side stun when the guy has speed 5, I can't even xD You can't be serious. It's so situational...

still waiting on that pic of the hero with 1 in lw doing 200 dmg. you were so sure when you said it, it must be true.

You don't even read

you also keep conflating abilities (like dt, and ns nukes) with spec skills. what other spec skill is as good as that bow was at 12 spec? none that i can think of.
You made clear that you don't understand that a class should be seen as a whole, I am not surprised.

Man because you are so good, and because you have the experience, come on hib and show us how you can make the ranger shine. I am waiting.
lol he has speed 5 so you cant open with side stun? i open with BS on them ALL the time, its better than PA because they have no chance to react and i get to fully poison before they start swinging on me. i can get bs, you should be able to get side stun. just have to wait for them to come to you.
because a class isnt good at all times, its not a good class. got it.
tldr noa bad lol. keep farming xpers noob.

It's a fact melee ranger are below average, like I told you with all my timers ups, it's a coin flip vs sins that are 9L+. If the class was good, you would see them by the many... Remind me again, how many of us are active at the moment?

So man, tell me how many melee rangers do you fight? How many beat you on a regular basis? And rofl waiting for a skald who roams in speed 5 to pass to side stun them and get rekt after anyway, or in the slim possibility I have an egde he would SOS away, I have better things to do. But come on scrub, come on hib, and show us how to make the ranger shine. We are waiting. "A class so good that nobody want to play because you have to afk every 15mn to have a chance to win a fight" Gold.
Thu 7 May 2020 9:12 PM by Riac
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 9:03 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 8:56 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 8:43 PM
You are so deep in your own a.. man, numbers are here, and I will tell you, melee ranger is bellow average. it's not like I have a hundread days of /play on it.
"Nobody want to camp IP and purge" > a class that is good once every 15mn is not a good class, how can you even make a case about that ROFL.
Even with IP and purge IP, I lose vs some low rank inf because they out dps you by a lot with viper, and MoP was nerfed to the ground.
And opening a skald with a side stun when the guy has speed 5, I can't even xD You can't be serious. It's so situational...



You don't even read


You made clear that you don't understand that a class should be seen as a whole, I am not surprised.

Man because you are so good, and because you have the experience, come on hib and show us how you can make the ranger shine. I am waiting.
lol he has speed 5 so you cant open with side stun? i open with BS on them ALL the time, its better than PA because they have no chance to react and i get to fully poison before they start swinging on me. i can get bs, you should be able to get side stun. just have to wait for them to come to you.
because a class isnt good at all times, its not a good class. got it.
tldr noa bad lol. keep farming xpers noob.

It's a fact melee ranger are below average, like I told you with all my timers ups, it's a coin flip vs sins that are 9L+. If the class was good, you would see them by the many... Remind me again, how many of us are active at the moment?

So man, tell me how many melee rangers do you fight? How many beat you on a regular basis? And rofl waiting for a skald who roams in speed 5 to pass to side stun them and get rekt after anyway, or in the slim possibility I have an egde he would SOS away, I have better things to do. But come on scrub, come on hib, and show us how to make the ranger shine. We are waiting. "A class so good that nobody want to play because you have to afk every 15mn to have a chance to win a fight" Gold.

since its a coin flip, does that mean that 9l sins are also bad? i mean, if they were good they would be beating you all the time (didnt work so well did it.)
there are not that many around because they dont want to camp ip, not sure why that is hard to understand. then again you seem to have a hard time understanding a lot of thing.
so now you dont have time to properly fight the skald? moving the goal posts?
i dont wanna play a melee ranger and camp CDs. you made that choice, i knew better.
still waiting on that pick of the 200 dmg from the hero with 1 in LW lololol
Thu 7 May 2020 9:18 PM by Noashakra
still waiting on that pick of the 200 dmg from the hero with 1 in LW lololol

Maybe you should read again for the 2nd time.
"I know better" haha yeah you made it clear that the class is bellow average and you don't even realize it. Fucking A.
Thu 7 May 2020 9:19 PM by Riac
Riac wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 8:58 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:56 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:55 PM
200 pretty spicy for no investment. you disagree?

I could do 200 with 1 in LW with a hero, what's your point?
youre right, i cant read.
oof
pls explain how i need to read this noa. spell it out very slowly for me.
Thu 7 May 2020 9:21 PM by Noashakra
Riac wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 9:19 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 8:58 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 6 May 2020 4:56 PM
I could do 200 with 1 in LW with a hero, what's your point?
youre right, i cant read.
oof
pls explain how i need to read this noa. spell it out very slowly for me.
I already replied a few post above.
Thu 7 May 2020 9:23 PM by Riac
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 9:21 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 9:19 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 8:58 PM
youre right, i cant read.
oof
pls explain how i need to read this noa. spell it out very slowly for me.
I already replied a few post above.
pls link it, im blind and cant read apparently.
maybe throw a bold and underline in there.
Thu 7 May 2020 9:27 PM by Noashakra
Riac wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 9:23 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 9:21 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 9:19 PM
pls explain how i need to read this noa. spell it out very slowly for me.
I already replied a few post above.
pls link it, im blind and cant read apparently.
maybe throw a bold and underline in there.

read again, i am not your mom dude, I already replied and if you can't be bothered to read, tought luck.
Thu 7 May 2020 9:29 PM by Riac
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 9:27 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 9:23 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 7 May 2020 9:21 PM
I already replied a few post above.
pls link it, im blind and cant read apparently.
maybe throw a bold and underline in there.

read again, i am not your mom dude, I already replied and if you can't be bothered to read, tought luck.
you know damn well you didnt lol
Sat 9 May 2020 9:38 PM by Anelyn77
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 4:56 PM
This change is part of a series of changes: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=99782

We will keep the old archery system, however, we will make a few adjustments. Archery changes / buffs have to be handled carefully as a noticable increase in archers and especially archer zergs would be a lot worse than having useless archery, therefore the behavior after these changes will be watched closely.

The damage modifier formula will be changed for non-volley archery shots only and no longer cap at min(spec - 1, enemy level + 1) aka no longer cap at 52 in pvp situations. This alone will make a noticable difference between 27 and 50 bow spec while at the same time increasing the bow damage for higher specs without touching the current 27 bow damage.
Penetrating shot 2 will allow 50% of the damage to go through against self casted bt.


And then for a potential change:
A new critical shot rank will be added at around 45 archery that will apply a certain effect to the target, candidates for this effect would be prevent flight, nearsight and disease.

Could also be just a 150-200DD on it? And please give hunter pet disease & snare proc to have some utility, there's no point to go high spear or sword with the archery buff, and getting more utility from the pet --- being in a spec line BC that we spec high for it should fit perfect and round up the class. This will be similar to new snare from shield spec for scouts.

Ty!
Sun 10 May 2020 10:13 AM by Symptomettes
Just give buffs to the three archers class in archery spec for god sake... It's obvious how RANGER are by far the best if you compare it to hunter/scoot. 80 ranger two days ago... Lot of people are going to hib to play NS / Ranger (both best archer and sins btw...). Self buff (spec af/str/d,q/add) when hunt get only d/q and spec and when scoot can just laugh about how fucked up he is. It wouldn't be a problem if we could get a buffbot or some real 75 value charge. But since you killed that, scoot are litteraly missing it... So playing scoot is supposed to be the best archery damage in the whole game but since you killed spec charge and buff pot, now ranger is like the best cookie cutter from those classes. Best melee spec / Best archery spec.

So why not considering giving all three archers the same buffs to be at least be more equal as a solo player ? Since you fucked up hard with the buff pots and the charge... I don't understand why you are still not considering to give some real sense to your decisions. You have up archery, you see like the ten same people whining about archery damage on discord for two days and you already nerfed it back... And when people give idea on forum you don't even listen to them or considering it. I'm tired to try to explain how you could have give archer some love without fucking everything up but no... You guys are so stubborn !

Every hunter are asking something about bc and pet charm, nothing done. Lot of scoot asking to remoove this fucking root shield and give us something really usefull and not OP for stealth zerg, nothing done. Now you will have a one side stealth war because you are not listening to what the community really want.
Sun 10 May 2020 11:28 AM by inoeth
Symptomettes wrote: ↑
Sun 10 May 2020 10:13 AM
Just give buffs to the three archers class in archery spec for god sake... It's obvious how RANGER are by far the best if you compare it to hunter/scoot. 80 ranger two days ago... Lot of people are going to hib to play NS / Ranger (both best archer and sins btw...). Self buff (spec af/str/d,q/add) when hunt get only d/q and spec and when scoot can just laugh about how fucked up he is. It wouldn't be a problem if we could get a buffbot or some real 75 value charge. But since you killed that, scoot are litteraly missing it... So playing scoot is supposed to be the best archery damage in the whole game but since you killed spec charge and buff pot, now ranger is like the best cookie cutter from those classes. Best melee spec / Best archery spec.

So why not considering giving all three archers the same buffs to be at least be more equal as a solo player ? Since you fucked up hard with the buff pots and the charge... I don't understand why you are still not considering to give some real sense to your decisions. You have up archery, you see like the ten same people whining about archery damage on discord for two days and you already nerfed it back... And when people give idea on forum you don't even listen to them or considering it. I'm tired to try to explain how you could have give archer some love without fucking everything up but no... You guys are so stubborn !

Every hunter are asking something about bc and pet charm, nothing done. Lot of scoot asking to remoove this fucking root shield and give us something really usefull and not OP for stealth zerg, nothing done. Now you will have a one side stealth war because you are not listening to what the community really want.

no i highly disagree
huter is ok
ranger is ok
scout however is not ok because its not possible to cap blocking... back 10 years ago on live servers melee scout was a feared thing when they basicly had 60% block chance+pd+evade but here it seems like blocking is caped at 60% and then reduced by dw no chance to over cap blocking so that it is still 60% after reduction.

bow dmg was also ok before the buff and now it is just retadedly high

if only archers had camuflage again and be able to spec mos they every now and then had a chance to start a fight with crit shot but would not be overly strong so that assasins would never get them before getting crit shottet

plz do something about it, atm its ridicolous
Sun 10 May 2020 11:53 AM by Rillifane
"Ranger" ?! I only know stealthed BMs running around ….
There are just a veeeery few Archers left in Hib ...
Sun 10 May 2020 6:12 PM by jwalker
for me it is not a great strategy how stong the super high bow spec scales.

Before it was like 93% of max possible bow damage you got with 52 composite bow. It was obviously a bit laughable how little the gain was speccing above 40+ bow. We coult have simply doubled the 2-hand bonus to account for the overall low bow performance of the bow line and also give a "reasonable" bonus to higher specs. Now high bow is really good while composite 52 still is unimpressive.

Before we had 3 reasonable specs

full melee, low bow (mostly the win every 15 minutes Rangers)
hybrid with 27 or 52 composite bow (Ranger, Hunter and Scouts)
full bow (Shield only scout and zerg Snipers)

Now you feel forced to go higher bow and sacrifice as much melee as you can, since high bow is just too good, mostly buffing the zerg/group people, while basically hybrid specs that were mostly used by solo players got only a little and feel forced to switch to high bow.
Mon 11 May 2020 4:43 AM by Anelyn77
I don't see the problem with having decent archery. Hell if you spec 50 in a line, you should get something out of it (and we don't, last CS is at 27, rapid fire and penetrating arrow are just fillers), even if it's only damage, it should be meaningful. By going 50 (or 45) in archery, you already limit drastically what else you can get (For any archer class), since you want a minimum of 35 stealth to not waddle around in slow-mo, and also not pop on enemies radar from 1k range. Scouts go 42 shield (45 now if they want), Rangers and Hunters go 40-48 in PF / BC, so their melee line will be ~21-25 spec which is useless if they ever get in a melee situation.

Archers still don't have access to any of the GOOD stuff from live (and I don't mean ToA artis / FZ, but skills in archery and other spec lines). Meanwhile they want to redesign / adjust all melee styles - which is great, but won't do jack for archers. And we're in discussion to possible get a new CS rank at 45 with a secondary effect. That's all there is to it.

Devs can only design / balance a class based on it's performance (goal where it should be and how it is performing in current version), they can't include stealth grouping or several archers shooting peeps in sieges or bridges etc. This happened since early DAOC and will continue to happen irrelevant of buffs / nerfs, you can't stop peeps from playing together or doing what is generally considered safe & fast RPs.

If you believe that archers started grouping and pelting you with arrows only now because of the archery buff, you either never played before, or are making things up. It's well known that Albion has best stealth gang bangs thanks to minstrel, and mid & hib are grouping to try to even the play field.

On the other hand, please look at CS sin numbers, PA in particular and all other skills in general, it really needs an OMPF factor adjustment, it's just meh atm.

Cheers.
Mon 11 May 2020 6:32 AM by Anelyn77
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 4:56 PM
This change is part of a series of changes: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=99782

We will keep the old archery system, however, we will make a few adjustments. Archery changes / buffs have to be handled carefully as a noticable increase in archers and especially archer zergs would be a lot worse than having useless archery, therefore the behavior after these changes will be watched closely.

The damage modifier formula will be changed for non-volley archery shots only and no longer cap at min(spec - 1, enemy level + 1) aka no longer cap at 52 in pvp situations. This alone will make a noticable difference between 27 and 50 bow spec while at the same time increasing the bow damage for higher specs without touching the current 27 bow damage.
Penetrating shot 2 will allow 50% of the damage to go through against self casted bt.


And then for a potential change:
A new critical shot rank will be added at around 45 archery that will apply a certain effect to the target, candidates for this effect would be prevent flight, nearsight and disease.

When are we getting the new CS rank? Could you also please look into adding 2-3 more active skills to archery because atm it's the only spec where you can go all the way to 50 and you still have only 2 abilities on your action bar - CS and RF (3rd being the bow from inventory).

What about a Pinning Shot - 99% snare for 10s? A real rapid fire - shoot 10 arrows in quick succession at your target each arrow dealing 50% of normal arrow dmg (all dmg dealt over 2s, non interruptible outside of hard CC), Rain of Arrows, Flaming / Wyvern / Frost arrow - normal arrow dmg + elemental dot, Silencing Shot - 3s silence on enemy etc?

All melee will get their new styles with better growth and possible new effects (DD procs etc), but archers only get a small increase in damage (after nerf).

Thanks!
Mon 11 May 2020 6:54 AM by Sepplord
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 4:43 AM
If you believe that archers started grouping and pelting you with arrows only now because of the archery buff, you either never played before, or are making things up. It's well known that Albion has best stealth gang bangs thanks to minstrel, and mid & hib are grouping to try to even the play field.

I don't really disagree with the other points you make, but the amount of archers and archergroups definitely has increased (and there isn't even any reason to assume otherwise...i mean they just got heavily buffed, ofcourse more will try it out)
Mon 11 May 2020 7:05 AM by Anelyn77
Yeah but that's something that repeats over and over in MMO, when one class gets a nice buff, the percentages go up in population playing that class, when it gets nerfed, reduced.

Just wait for the melee style changes and we'll see how meta will shift again

Still is not like the archer is immune to CC / rupts / NS / dmg while he exposes to shoot from the wall / tower etc, just like normal casters are. Getting shot by 3-5 archers is no much better than getting debuff nuked by 2-3 casters in a siege scenario, everyone done it or was on the receiving end (personally big fan of getting bolt assist nuked on my mentalist for example).

We all know that stealth zergs were a thing since OF days on live servers, and Phoenix can try all they want but won't be able to completely eradicate it, the game is Realm vs Realm vs Realm after all, not 3v3, 5v5, 8v8 and only 1v1 if you're stealthed.
Mon 11 May 2020 9:00 AM by Sepplord
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 4:43 AM
If you believe that archers started grouping and pelting you with arrows only now because of the archery buff, you either never played before, or are making things up.

Anelyn77 wrote: Yeah but that's something that repeats over and over in MMO, when one class gets a nice buff, the percentages go up in population playing that class, when it gets nerfed, reduced.

So, which one of these is your opinion? Because they are contradicting each other

That said, yes, being shot by 3-5archers is different to being nuked by 3-5casters, because you see the casters before their dmg is inevitable, and you don't see the archers.

And for the record, i am not whining about archers (Yet? maybe it will become a problem but so far it didn't seem like it) but the arguments you present are heavily flawed and don't seem to be objective
Mon 11 May 2020 9:09 AM by Tyrlaan
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 7:05 AM
Still is not like the archer is immune to CC / rupts / NS / dmg while he exposes to shoot from the wall / tower etc, just like normal casters are. Getting shot by 3-5 archers is no much better than getting debuff nuked by 2-3 casters in a siege scenario, everyone done it or was on the receiving end (personally big fan of getting bolt assist nuked on my mentalist for example).

Except for the 2500 range when shooting from the wall/tower you conveniently forgot. I´d even go as far and say a caster who exposes himself to NS/bolt/CC archers is very likely a pin cushion soon. Unlike archers, casters cannot stealth to draw and hold their first spell. I know there´s guard as a counter but no reason to downplay archery at siege.
Mon 11 May 2020 4:08 PM by Eoril
Very nice patch now we have at least 2 garbage characters per square meter
Mon 11 May 2020 4:47 PM by Pao
Whats about getting a tank to block you like it was back in the day. you can cast free no arrows... problem solved
Mon 11 May 2020 7:23 PM by jk123
Thank you for the intelligent implementation of the damage buff to archery.
The damage is still ok after the recent nerf, but it mustn't go lower, else the investment into high bow skill will be questionable.
The psychology of players of the other classes was well taken care of by nerfing archery damage moderately after the expected initial outcry, because now arrows hurt a bit, when they only used to tickle before.

Please deliver on the other promised aspect for the changes and add a bit more utility to the archery lines. Maybe utility shots should vary between the classes to make them each more unique.

The beastcraft line could also be reworked with the planned style changes, allthough i'd like them better right now.

Keep up the great work!
Mon 11 May 2020 9:08 PM by Cadebrennus
Pao wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 4:47 PM
Whats about getting a tank to block you like it was back in the day. you can cast free no arrows... problem solved

That requires too much thinking and teamwork. It's just easier for people to whine instead.
Mon 11 May 2020 10:07 PM by bigne88
Sad to see 200+ archers logged in...
Didnt know so many nobs around.
Also if so many ppl are playing such useless classes, probably something went really wrong.

I mean, to kill greys expers and grief/add other people fights, really needed a damage buff?
Mon 11 May 2020 10:13 PM by Quik
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:07 PM
Sad to see 200+ archers logged in...
Didnt know so many nobs around.
Also if so many ppl are playing such useless classes, probably something went really wrong.

I mean, to kill greys expers and grief/add other people fights, really needed a damage buff?

I've been XPing constantly ever since the archery buff and I have not been ganked by a single stealthier other then minnies so...
Mon 11 May 2020 10:22 PM by bigne88
Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:13 PM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:07 PM
Sad to see 200+ archers logged in...
Didnt know so many nobs around.
Also if so many ppl are playing such useless classes, probably something went really wrong.

I mean, to kill greys expers and grief/add other people fights, really needed a damage buff?

I've been XPing constantly ever since the archery buff and I have not been ganked by a single stealthier other then minnies so...

Dont get me wrong, now Im doing more rps killing all thous rangers party trying to add my 8v8 cleanfights in brefine, than actually winning/loosing an 8v8 and accepting the 1k rps for cleanfight.
It is just pathetic to see 5 untemplated hunters that camp brefine just for leeching from 8v8 fights and dying trying. Its a waste of time for everyone and pretty unfun. 2 8men are enjoying a nice fight, than suddenly both groups has to disengage and clear the field from the adders and start all over again.
The rps tough are good.
Mon 11 May 2020 10:26 PM by Quik
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:22 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:13 PM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:07 PM
Sad to see 200+ archers logged in...
Didnt know so many nobs around.
Also if so many ppl are playing such useless classes, probably something went really wrong.

I mean, to kill greys expers and grief/add other people fights, really needed a damage buff?

I've been XPing constantly ever since the archery buff and I have not been ganked by a single stealthier other then minnies so...

Dont get me wrong, now Im doing more rps killing all thous rangers party trying to add my 8v8 cleanfights in brefine, than actually winning/loosing an 8v8 and accepting the 1k rps for cleanfight.
It is just pathetic to see 5 untemplated hunters that camp brefine just for leeching from 8v8 fights and dying trying. Its a waste of time for everyone and pretty unfun. The rps tough are good.

I get it, but anytime you have a FOTM class it always gets flooded for a period of time until people realize the archery increase isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

Personally I won't make a Hunter until they give the pet snare/disease, and I doubt they ever will. personally I really have no fear of bow based classes even after the change. Sure they hurt more but I haven't died more to them lately.

People will get bored soon enough and wait for the next FOTM class.
Tue 12 May 2020 12:27 AM by Anelyn77
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:22 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:13 PM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:07 PM
Sad to see 200+ archers logged in...
Didnt know so many nobs around.
Also if so many ppl are playing such useless classes, probably something went really wrong.

I mean, to kill greys expers and grief/add other people fights, really needed a damage buff?

I've been XPing constantly ever since the archery buff and I have not been ganked by a single stealthier other then minnies so...

Dont get me wrong, now Im doing more rps killing all thous rangers party trying to add my 8v8 cleanfights in brefine, than actually winning/loosing an 8v8 and accepting the 1k rps for cleanfight.
It is just pathetic to see 5 untemplated hunters that camp brefine just for leeching from 8v8 fights and dying trying. Its a waste of time for everyone and pretty unfun. 2 8men are enjoying a nice fight, than suddenly both groups has to disengage and clear the field from the adders and start all over again.
The rps tough are good.

This happened before the buffs, back since OF. Which is funny as I remember the non stop stream of 35's running to MG's to get killed for task hahahahha!

8m don't have problems with adds in general, since they just stop fighting eachother and deal with whatever added together, then resume when it's green light
Tue 12 May 2020 3:04 AM by bigne88
Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:26 PM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:22 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:13 PM
I've been XPing constantly ever since the archery buff and I have not been ganked by a single stealthier other then minnies so...

Dont get me wrong, now Im doing more rps killing all thous rangers party trying to add my 8v8 cleanfights in brefine, than actually winning/loosing an 8v8 and accepting the 1k rps for cleanfight.
It is just pathetic to see 5 untemplated hunters that camp brefine just for leeching from 8v8 fights and dying trying. Its a waste of time for everyone and pretty unfun. The rps tough are good.

I get it, but anytime you have a FOTM class it always gets flooded for a period of time until people realize the archery increase isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

Personally I won't make a Hunter until they give the pet snare/disease, and I doubt they ever will. personally I really have no fear of bow based classes even after the change. Sure they hurt more but I haven't died more to them lately.

People will get bored soon enough and wait for the next FOTM class.

Yaua, you right 100%, fotm is fotm. I was just mildly venting.
Tue 12 May 2020 3:08 AM by bigne88
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Tue 12 May 2020 12:27 AM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:22 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:13 PM
I've been XPing constantly ever since the archery buff and I have not been ganked by a single stealthier other then minnies so...

Dont get me wrong, now Im doing more rps killing all thous rangers party trying to add my 8v8 cleanfights in brefine, than actually winning/loosing an 8v8 and accepting the 1k rps for cleanfight.
It is just pathetic to see 5 untemplated hunters that camp brefine just for leeching from 8v8 fights and dying trying. Its a waste of time for everyone and pretty unfun. 2 8men are enjoying a nice fight, than suddenly both groups has to disengage and clear the field from the adders and start all over again.
The rps tough are good.

This happened before the buffs, back since OF. Which is funny as I remember the non stop stream of 35's running to MG's to get killed for task hahahahha!

8m don't have problems with adds in general, since they just stop fighting eachother and deal with whatever added together, then resume when it's green light

Haha yea, the taskers gangbang fiesta was pretty hilarious.
Tue 12 May 2020 3:15 AM by daytonchambers
jwalker wrote: ↑
Sun 10 May 2020 6:12 PM
for me it is not a great strategy how stong the super high bow spec scales.

Before it was like 93% of max possible bow damage you got with 52 composite bow. It was obviously a bit laughable how little the gain was speccing above 40+ bow. We coult have simply doubled the 2-hand bonus to account for the overall low bow performance of the bow line and also give a "reasonable" bonus to higher specs. Now high bow is really good while composite 52 still is unimpressive.

Before we had 3 reasonable specs

full melee, low bow (mostly the win every 15 minutes Rangers)
hybrid with 27 or 52 composite bow (Ranger, Hunter and Scouts)
full bow (Shield only scout and zerg Snipers)

Now you feel forced to go higher bow and sacrifice as much melee as you can, since high bow is just too good, mostly buffing the zerg/group people, while basically hybrid specs that were mostly used by solo players got only a little and feel forced to switch to high bow.


Hybrid player here o/

I do not feel "forced" whatsoever to switch. My spec of 35 archery got a small dps boost which is nice, but I like to roam around a little bit and any idiot archer that specs 45+ bow has sacrificed all their melee to do so which means a guaranteed death if they run across another sneak while roaming.

I'll leave volley spam with full bow for the zerg surfers, and continue to gun down and run down the shitters that keep flooding the Gorge =)
Tue 12 May 2020 5:03 AM by Astaa
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:22 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:13 PM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:07 PM
Sad to see 200+ archers logged in...
Didnt know so many nobs around.
Also if so many ppl are playing such useless classes, probably something went really wrong.

I mean, to kill greys expers and grief/add other people fights, really needed a damage buff?

I've been XPing constantly ever since the archery buff and I have not been ganked by a single stealthier other then minnies so...

Dont get me wrong, now Im doing more rps killing all thous rangers party trying to add my 8v8 cleanfights in brefine, than actually winning/loosing an 8v8 and accepting the 1k rps for cleanfight.
It is just pathetic to see 5 untemplated hunters that camp brefine just for leeching from 8v8 fights and dying trying. Its a waste of time for everyone and pretty unfun. 2 8men are enjoying a nice fight, than suddenly both groups has to disengage and clear the field from the adders and start all over again.
The rps tough are good.

When was the last time any fg left a soloer alone?
Tue 12 May 2020 11:26 AM by Noashakra
Astaa wrote: ↑
Tue 12 May 2020 5:03 AM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:22 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:13 PM
I've been XPing constantly ever since the archery buff and I have not been ganked by a single stealthier other then minnies so...

Dont get me wrong, now Im doing more rps killing all thous rangers party trying to add my 8v8 cleanfights in brefine, than actually winning/loosing an 8v8 and accepting the 1k rps for cleanfight.
It is just pathetic to see 5 untemplated hunters that camp brefine just for leeching from 8v8 fights and dying trying. Its a waste of time for everyone and pretty unfun. 2 8men are enjoying a nice fight, than suddenly both groups has to disengage and clear the field from the adders and start all over again.
The rps tough are good.

When was the last time any fg left a soloer alone?

The same people that will /yell and stop a fight because a grey added their fight...
Tue 12 May 2020 12:15 PM by bigne88
Astaa wrote: ↑
Tue 12 May 2020 5:03 AM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:22 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:13 PM
I've been XPing constantly ever since the archery buff and I have not been ganked by a single stealthier other then minnies so...

Dont get me wrong, now Im doing more rps killing all thous rangers party trying to add my 8v8 cleanfights in brefine, than actually winning/loosing an 8v8 and accepting the 1k rps for cleanfight.
It is just pathetic to see 5 untemplated hunters that camp brefine just for leeching from 8v8 fights and dying trying. Its a waste of time for everyone and pretty unfun. 2 8men are enjoying a nice fight, than suddenly both groups has to disengage and clear the field from the adders and start all over again.
The rps tough are good.

When was the last time any fg left a soloer alone?

Gvg listed 8 men rarely stops, in prime time, to kill a soloer: dropping speed to kill one guy is simply not worth, for rps, for fun and the risk (zerg nearby or getting inc with no speed).
There are few well known and "respected" soloers who usually are left alone regardeless the place, the unknown one, it depends: if zerg action is in odin, the task is in emain and the 8v8 party are in EV, for istance, I will defenetly kill any soloer that I find in EV, because I simply assume that they are there just to add.
Gvg listed 8 men dosent roam busy places to harvest RPs, instead they try to settle fights in non busy places. If it happen that you solo in thous non busy places and you are a well unknown guy, yea, bad for you.


Tell me: how many times, soloing, you get killed by a listed 8 men and how many times you get killed by a group of stealthers.
Ill start: first death is 10 seconds after you left the teleport keep and you are trying to reach the dock (even faster if you go to the relic gate dock).
If you get lucky and manage to get a boat, you will die a second time at the boat drop, obviously camped by a ridicolous amount of stealthers.
And so on.
Tue 12 May 2020 6:10 PM by Anelyn77
I don't think there are sniper archers "roaming". They just get to wherever they have a good influx of RP's (not talking bg / sieges) and do their thing.

My 37 ranger got to 45 and RR3 by just going to mid and alb areas where I know peeps will come to / by to meet the bg / zerg, easy rps (yes many peeps run on semi-pilot not really paying attention).

You don't go to docks / bridges and other places (won't be named here) where sins generally camp or roam, you do your thing, there's plenty of space and rp's for everyone.

Obv unlike a sin, you have the added bonus of following / joining a BG and still get rps without endangering yourself as much as a melee toon would.

If I want to roam looking for other stealthers I'll log my NS, or heck even my necro, still plenty of duos - trios that think they might have a chance - funny moments

And yeah the listed 8m won't stop to kill a solo be it stealther or visible (unless they are someone who griefed someone from group - that may happen I know), they are more interested in their 8v8, but random 8m (if there are still any) or smalls will always go out of their way to get 1 style / spell off on that poor soul - probably in frustration that the only xper's they found were all gray con? ^^

Cheers.
Tue 12 May 2020 6:26 PM by Xanthippus
My warrior just got crit shot by a ranger without any critical for 1082. Not balanced. Why are they doing 2x as much damage as a RM/wiz/eld bolt? This is just stupid.
Tue 12 May 2020 8:21 PM by daytonchambers
Xanthippus wrote: ↑
Tue 12 May 2020 6:26 PM
My warrior just got crit shot by a ranger without any critical for 1082. Not balanced. Why are they doing 2x as much damage as a RM/wiz/eld bolt? This is just stupid.


pix or it didn't happen.

Unless of course you were A: not level 50, B: not wearing armor, or C: sitting down.

That's the only possible way to damage cap on a player, especially a chain wearing warrior. Plus, crit shots never critical as they're already a critical shot.
Tue 12 May 2020 8:53 PM by Xanthippus
Didn't have combined forces pot up. Level 50, 51 armour. I shouldn't need to always be running combined pot just to ensure an OP ranger doesn't hit me for cap.
Wed 13 May 2020 7:13 AM by VonSchneider
Like for real, can we pls have the no immunity effect on scout removed? With the recent up to archer damage (which is perfectly fine for me) it got so ridiculous, everywhere these scouts are camping with their inf and minstrel mates. I think scout is strong enough now with the upped damage. Even without no immunity they should be doing fine 1vs1, as you can only purge one of their root or slam, but at least you have a chance to get to them as melee tank.
Wed 13 May 2020 7:18 AM by Cadebrennus
Xanthippus wrote: ↑
Tue 12 May 2020 8:53 PM
Didn't have combined forces pot up. Level 50, 51 armour. I shouldn't need to always be running combined pot just to ensure an OP ranger doesn't hit me for cap.

Not using level 51 99%+ armor that's repaired and not using a FREE TO ALL REALMS spec AF buff has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of in this game.

You have no one to blame but yourself.
Wed 13 May 2020 7:36 AM by Astaa
Xanthippus wrote: ↑
Tue 12 May 2020 8:53 PM
Didn't have combined forces pot up. Level 50, 51 armour. I shouldn't need to always be running combined pot just to ensure an OP ranger doesn't hit me for cap.

haha...what?
Wed 13 May 2020 9:34 AM by Centenario
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 13 May 2020 7:18 AM
Xanthippus wrote: ↑
Tue 12 May 2020 8:53 PM
Didn't have combined forces pot up. Level 50, 51 armour. I shouldn't need to always be running combined pot just to ensure an OP ranger doesn't hit me for cap.
Not using level 51 99%+ armor that's repaired and not using a FREE TO ALL REALMS spec AF buff has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of in this game.

Nah it's not dumb, it's called a handicap.
Pro players like to give themselves some challenges/handicap.
Wed 13 May 2020 12:02 PM by Sepplord
Centenario wrote: ↑
Wed 13 May 2020 9:34 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 13 May 2020 7:18 AM
Xanthippus wrote: ↑
Tue 12 May 2020 8:53 PM
Didn't have combined forces pot up. Level 50, 51 armour. I shouldn't need to always be running combined pot just to ensure an OP ranger doesn't hit me for cap.
Not using level 51 99%+ armor that's repaired and not using a FREE TO ALL REALMS spec AF buff has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of in this game.

Nah it's not dumb, it's called a handicap.
Pro players like to give themselves some challenges/handicap.

Pro players don't complain though, when their handicap makes them suffer
Wed 13 May 2020 12:42 PM by Cadebrennus
Centenario wrote: ↑
Wed 13 May 2020 9:34 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 13 May 2020 7:18 AM
Xanthippus wrote: ↑
Tue 12 May 2020 8:53 PM
Didn't have combined forces pot up. Level 50, 51 armour. I shouldn't need to always be running combined pot just to ensure an OP ranger doesn't hit me for cap.
Not using level 51 99%+ armor that's repaired and not using a FREE TO ALL REALMS spec AF buff has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of in this game.

Nah it's not dumb, it's called a handicap.
Pro players like to give themselves some challenges/handicap.

Wed 13 May 2020 5:28 PM by Symptomettes
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:22 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:13 PM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:07 PM
Sad to see 200+ archers logged in...
Didnt know so many nobs around.
Also if so many ppl are playing such useless classes, probably something went really wrong.

I mean, to kill greys expers and grief/add other people fights, really needed a damage buff?

I've been XPing constantly ever since the archery buff and I have not been ganked by a single stealthier other then minnies so...

Dont get me wrong, now Im doing more rps killing all thous rangers party trying to add my 8v8 cleanfights in brefine, than actually winning/loosing an 8v8 and accepting the 1k rps for cleanfight.
It is just pathetic to see 5 untemplated hunters that camp brefine just for leeching from 8v8 fights and dying trying. Its a waste of time for everyone and pretty unfun. 2 8men are enjoying a nice fight, than suddenly both groups has to disengage and clear the field from the adders and start all over again.
The rps tough are good.

Best post i've ever seen from a longtime.

Dude seriously, 8man here is the trash community and you complain about 5 untemp hunter trying to have fun ? LoL ! Do you even know how much drama some 8 man did ? Cheat / bug abuse / pissing on that awesome community / destroy events or shedule epic dunj. 8 man elitist community is like the worst people you can play with or be friend with... Just listen 10 minutes to streamers and check how disrespectful and how imbue of themsleves they are. Stop posting here when you have absolutely no knowledge of how things work for stealthers. Everything is pretty much made for 8 man and you still vomit your bullshits on this planned change. Just go whine about bleed style "kthxbye".

And as a stealther it makes me so sad to see a fg stoping to add a 2v1 or a 2v2 just to get task credit and 50 rps. But meh, it's my opinion. We are garbage for you, and you are for us. But at least we have the decency to let you speak for yourself like a grown up man you are. Or not
Wed 13 May 2020 8:49 PM by bigne88
Symptomettes wrote: ↑
Wed 13 May 2020 5:28 PM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:22 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 11 May 2020 10:13 PM
I've been XPing constantly ever since the archery buff and I have not been ganked by a single stealthier other then minnies so...

Dont get me wrong, now Im doing more rps killing all thous rangers party trying to add my 8v8 cleanfights in brefine, than actually winning/loosing an 8v8 and accepting the 1k rps for cleanfight.
It is just pathetic to see 5 untemplated hunters that camp brefine just for leeching from 8v8 fights and dying trying. Its a waste of time for everyone and pretty unfun. 2 8men are enjoying a nice fight, than suddenly both groups has to disengage and clear the field from the adders and start all over again.
The rps tough are good.

Best post i've ever seen from a longtime.

Dude seriously, 8man here is the trash community and you complain about 5 untemp hunter trying to have fun ? LoL ! Do you even know how much drama some 8 man did ? Cheat / bug abuse / pissing on that awesome community / destroy events or shedule epic dunj. 8 man elitist community is like the worst people you can play with or be friend with... Just listen 10 minutes to streamers and check how disrespectful and how imbue of themsleves they are. Stop posting here when you have absolutely no knowledge of how things work for stealthers. Everything is pretty much made for 8 man and you still vomit your bullshits on this planned change. Just go whine about bleed style "kthxbye".

And as a stealther it makes me so sad to see a fg stoping to add a 2v1 or a 2v2 just to get task credit and 50 rps. But meh, it's my opinion. We are garbage for you, and you are for us. But at least we have the decency to let you speak for yourself like a grown up man you are. Or not

Wew lad, who pissed into your chereals?
Wed 13 May 2020 9:57 PM by Symptomettes
Not really, it's more like everything you said is garbage to my ear and have nothing to do in this post except wasting everyone time and yours.
Wed 13 May 2020 11:14 PM by Xanthippus
Cadebrennus no need to get so defensive, although I'm sure you won't be pleased when your ranger gets nerfed back to where it belongs, so I understand. The warrior in question in level 50 and wearing level 51 armour. It shouldn't be getting crit shotted for cap damage just because I forgot a 50 AF charge. You see how ridiculous that is? Something needs to be adjusted there. Numbers of rangers logged in speaks for itself. I have a ranger that's higher RR than yours and I always thought it was just fine. No need to make it outdps a caster while being invisible and also able to melee. Now I refuse to play it because it's blatantly OP and Hib is overpop. So one less cancerous archer in the game.
Thu 14 May 2020 1:54 AM by gotwqqd
Has anyone tested archery 45+?

Wondering what the % increase is for 50SPEC over 45SPEC
Thu 14 May 2020 6:53 AM by Centenario
Xanthippus wrote: ↑
Wed 13 May 2020 11:14 PM
Cadebrennus no need to get so defensive, although I'm sure you won't be pleased when your ranger gets nerfed back to where it belongs, so I understand. The warrior in question in level 50 and wearing level 51 armour. It shouldn't be getting crit shotted for cap damage just because I forgot a 50 AF charge. You see how ridiculous that is? Something needs to be adjusted there. Numbers of rangers logged in speaks for itself. I have a ranger that's higher RR than yours and I always thought it was just fine. No need to make it outdps a caster while being invisible and also able to melee. Now I refuse to play it because it's blatantly OP and Hib is overpop. So one less cancerous archer in the game.

On this server, because total AF has no impact, the only advantage in defense a warrior has over a hunter (lets say) is +8% absorb from chain armor, +2hp per constitution pt. When you get hit, the hit chooses an impact point, maybe your gloves and then it calculates damage according to your glove's defenses:
AF*Quality*Condition+(BaseAfBonus+SpecAFbonus)/6 Also base AF works only when under your cap.
Never is Total AF taken into consideration, meaning that if you reach a certain treshold like 630 AF you dont get more benefits than someone who has only one piece of armor equipped and would be hit on that single piece.

If that ranger would have hit a scout for 1000 damage, then you as a warrior, would have absorbed 8% of that or 80dmg, and you would have taken less damage if you had had the Spec AF pot.
But in percent damage, 800 damage should be a lot less to a warrior than to a hunter.
Thu 14 May 2020 6:59 AM by Cadebrennus
Xanthippus wrote: ↑
Wed 13 May 2020 11:14 PM
Cadebrennus no need to get so defensive, although I'm sure you won't be pleased when your ranger gets nerfed back to where it belongs, so I understand. The warrior in question in level 50 and wearing level 51 armour. It shouldn't be getting crit shotted for cap damage just because I forgot a 50 AF charge. You see how ridiculous that is? Something needs to be adjusted there. Numbers of rangers logged in speaks for itself. I have a ranger that's higher RR than yours and I always thought it was just fine. No need to make it outdps a caster while being invisible and also able to melee. Now I refuse to play it because it's blatantly OP and Hib is overpop. So one less cancerous archer in the game.

Not getting defensive at all. This server has quickly devolved into the same whine-fest as Live with players playing like shit and then blaming the game. This is one of the reasons why your Ranger is high RR and mine isn't. I just don't play often anymore, and I left the server twice before, for over a year at a time. Your RR doesn't = knowledge or skill, it = time grinding your RR. Before the RR boost on Live I got RR8 quite easily while being a casual simply by knowing my class and playing to its strength. Here your RR is just from you grinding. So, congratulations I guess? On your time served inflating your epeen?
Thu 14 May 2020 8:15 AM by Noashakra
Ranger OP xD
If you zerg, it's not changing much. You kill people in 2 secs instead of 4. Big deal.
If you solo, you are free rp for everything that has a shield or stealth spec melee.
Come on dude...

The warrior has 2K+hp.
After the crit shot, you /face and engage, and the ranger is useless and has to flee... So OP!
If he didn't block/evade the first shot because of how large the area to defend is on this server.
(All of this coming from a melee ranger btw).
Thu 14 May 2020 11:22 AM by jwalker
Xanthippus wrote: ↑
Tue 12 May 2020 6:26 PM
My warrior just got crit shot by a ranger without any critical for 1082. Not balanced. Why are they doing 2x as much damage as a RM/wiz/eld bolt? This is just stupid.

Sorry but this is totally BS - shreenshot or it didn't happen

I reduced my melee of my ranger to a more sniper oriented hybrid spec and now have 330 dex, 5.5 bow 100% and 59 comp. bow. The damage vs a capped dwarf warrior (means no racial bonus in thrust) is 340 with regular shot or 680 with crit shot. Your Troll should have taken a bit less due to +2% racial thrust resist.

I did the test the damage on the dummy and looked at the damage increase from comp. 57 to 61 and the damage is +4-5 per point on regular shot in a linear fassion.

A hypothetic maximized bow damage would need 70 in bow to do 390 damage with regular shot. With dex around 360 you can increase this to 425 damage or 850 with crit shot. No way the missing 50 point spec AF buff will ever account for the 25% damage that are missing to deal 1082.

TLDR: Just not possible to do cap damage on chain, don't sit in fights and complain afterwards!
Thu 14 May 2020 7:22 PM by Anelyn77
I tested with my mentalist being CS by 9l9 ranger full sniper spec (Self buffed and combi forces), it was 900 CS. That on cloth (no BT up obviously for test purpose, no combi forces on mentalist either only self af & abs buff). Your warrior getting hit for 1082 is impossible unless you were naked picking flowers or smth.

I can repeat the test and post SS, everyone can test it seriously, instead of believing everything you read on forums or random X guys says in /advice.

PS: Critshot is not a bolt.
PPS: An earth wiz debuffing you with decent RR will hit ~9xx on spec bolt non crit. Then follow up with 2 more bolts that combined will do ~1k (again no crits).
PPPS: Unlike spells, arrows can be blocked with a shield. /face & engage are things you should have learnt from level 7 and put them to good use.

Cheers.
Thu 14 May 2020 7:46 PM by Tyrlaan
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Thu 14 May 2020 7:22 PM
PPS: An earth wiz debuffing you with decent RR will hit ~9xx on spec bolt non crit. Then follow up with 2 more bolts that combined will do ~1k (again no crits).

Debuffed bolts? Thats an extra spell and inside 1500 range. And both would have visible cast times where arrows can be nocked and held while stealthed making crit shot pretty much instant to the one being shot - at 2500 range too if you´re shooting from a keep or tower.

Maybe they should just reduce arrow damage with range, basically baking live power shot (higher damage at short i.e. rupt range) and long shot (lower damage at long range) into standard archery without introducing a whole lot of new abilities.
Thu 14 May 2020 7:58 PM by Anelyn77
Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Thu 14 May 2020 7:46 PM
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Thu 14 May 2020 7:22 PM
PPS: An earth wiz debuffing you with decent RR will hit ~9xx on spec bolt non crit. Then follow up with 2 more bolts that combined will do ~1k (again no crits).

Debuffed bolts? Thats an extra spell and inside 1500 range. And both would have visible cast times where arrows can be nocked and held while stealthed making crit shot pretty much instant to the one being shot - at 2500 range too if you´re shooting from a keep or tower.

Maybe they should just reduce arrow damage with range, basically baking live power shot (higher damage at short i.e. rupt range) and long shot (lower damage at long range) into standard archery without introducing a whole lot of new abilities.

In zerg vs zerg fights 100% happening. Also if you're the Drunk Wizard you can do it solo, and to multiple enemies (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwL0Ag3goTk) 100% worth a watch.

Cheers
Thu 14 May 2020 8:37 PM by Riac
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 2 May 2020 4:56 PM
This change is part of a series of changes: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=99782

We will keep the old archery system, however, we will make a few adjustments. Archery changes / buffs have to be handled carefully as a noticable increase in archers and especially archer zergs would be a lot worse than having useless archery, therefore the behavior after these changes will be watched closely.

The damage modifier formula will be changed for non-volley archery shots only and no longer cap at min(spec - 1, enemy level + 1) aka no longer cap at 52 in pvp situations. This alone will make a noticable difference between 27 and 50 bow spec while at the same time increasing the bow damage for higher specs without touching the current 27 bow damage.
Penetrating shot 2 will allow 50% of the damage to go through against self casted bt.


And then for a potential change:
A new critical shot rank will be added at around 45 archery that will apply a certain effect to the target, candidates for this effect would be prevent flight, nearsight and disease.

how long are you planning on watching?
Thu 14 May 2020 9:00 PM by Tyrlaan
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Thu 14 May 2020 7:58 PM
Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Thu 14 May 2020 7:46 PM
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Thu 14 May 2020 7:22 PM
PPS: An earth wiz debuffing you with decent RR will hit ~9xx on spec bolt non crit. Then follow up with 2 more bolts that combined will do ~1k (again no crits).

Debuffed bolts? Thats an extra spell and inside 1500 range. And both would have visible cast times where arrows can be nocked and held while stealthed making crit shot pretty much instant to the one being shot - at 2500 range too if you´re shooting from a keep or tower.

Maybe they should just reduce arrow damage with range, basically baking live power shot (higher damage at short i.e. rupt range) and long shot (lower damage at long range) into standard archery without introducing a whole lot of new abilities.

In zerg vs zerg fights 100% happening. Also if you're the Drunk Wizard you can do it solo, and to multiple enemies (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwL0Ag3goTk) 100% worth a watch.

Uhh I wasn´t saying that you can´t do it (pretty much every self debuff caster will try to debuff 1st if possible - it might not be possible if between bolt and debuff range) but that it´s not comparable to crit shot and archery at all...

That vid was before new archery btw. GL soloing on an earth wiz these days. It was rangers not wizards who skyrocketed in /serverinfo. And it hasn´t helped to nerf GTAE as a counter to Hib´s dominance in siege while also improving archery (and thus rangers the most, with their cap D/Q and damadd). See last week´s /rw.
Thu 14 May 2020 9:35 PM by bigne88
jwalker wrote: ↑
Thu 14 May 2020 11:22 AM
Xanthippus wrote: ↑
Tue 12 May 2020 6:26 PM
My warrior just got crit shot by a ranger without any critical for 1082. Not balanced. Why are they doing 2x as much damage as a RM/wiz/eld bolt? This is just stupid.

Sorry but this is totally BS - shreenshot or it didn't happen

I reduced my melee of my ranger to a more sniper oriented hybrid spec and now have 330 dex, 5.5 bow 100% and 59 comp. bow. The damage vs a capped dwarf warrior (means no racial bonus in thrust) is 340 with regular shot or 680 with crit shot. Your Troll should have taken a bit less due to +2% racial thrust resist.

I did the test the damage on the dummy and looked at the damage increase from comp. 57 to 61 and the damage is +4-5 per point on regular shot in a linear fassion.

A hypothetic maximized bow damage would need 70 in bow to do 390 damage with regular shot. With dex around 360 you can increase this to 425 damage or 850 with crit shot. No way the missing 50 point spec AF buff will ever account for the 25% damage that are missing to deal 1082.

TLDR: Just not possible to do cap damage on chain, don't sit in fights and complain afterwards!

https://clips.twitch.tv/CalmElatedQueleaBigBrother

archer classes were and are uttrly shit and useless, builded for noobs, but devs bended the knees to a pletora of bad players who, to solve their lack of skill or any game knowledge, cryed so long to have dps increase out of nowhere.
I wont relog phoenix till there will be less than 200 archers online during eu primetime.
Thu 14 May 2020 9:50 PM by Astaa
Bye then...I guess...
Fri 15 May 2020 4:18 AM by Anelyn77
The thing is that if the dmg is too high by general consensus, and it needs another adjustment, then a compensation must be in place - a meaningful one that still makes the class attractive to play, and efficient at their role. Returning to pre-buff state with no other changes is biased.

Be constructive and objective if you want to go this route.
Fri 15 May 2020 4:23 AM by Riac
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 4:18 AM
The thing is that if the dmg is too high by general consensus, and it needs another adjustment, then a compensation must be in place - a meaningful one that still makes the class attractive to play, and efficient at their role. Returning to pre-buff state with no other changes is biased.

Be constructive and objective if you want to go this route.
well considering scout has the no immunity snare and the ranger/hunter wasnt weak to begin with, what do you have in mind?
Fri 15 May 2020 6:55 AM by Sepplord
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 4:18 AM
The thing is that if the dmg is too high by general consensus, and it needs another adjustment, then a compensation must be in place - a meaningful one that still makes the class attractive to play, and efficient at their role. Returning to pre-buff state with no other changes is biased.

Be constructive and objective if you want to go this route.

I can't follow this logic.

If a buff overshoots the target (hehe puns intended) and needs to be adjusted, why do you believe there needs to be a compensation for the removal of the OP state.

If it currently really is OP is still open for discussion, i really can't comment on that as i haven't had much playtime since this happened. But if there is an "adjustment" that doesn't neccessarily mean there needs to be some other compensation.
If a class gets +15%dmg and after testing it is toned down to only +10%...then why would there be a compensation for the +5% that were applied wrongly? Doesn't make sense at all
Fri 15 May 2020 8:03 AM by Razur Ur
the dmg is only high if more as one archer crit shot a target and this need from the staff to stopp. give us a limited critshot on one target and all is good.
Fri 15 May 2020 8:12 AM by Gildar
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 8:03 AM
the dmg is only high if more as one archer crit shot a target and this need from the staff to stopp. give us a limited critshot on one target and all is good.

the dmg is too high ... 800-900 by a single crit shot over a caster 6L are insane ... not to mention if archers are assisting ...
Fri 15 May 2020 8:12 AM by Saroi
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 8:03 AM
the dmg is only high if more as one archer crit shot a target and this need from the staff to stopp. give us a limited critshot on one target and all is good.

2 Archers can't crit shot the same target. There is a 15 second immunity timer after a crit shot.
Fri 15 May 2020 8:13 AM by Razur Ur
Saroi wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 8:12 AM
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 8:03 AM
the dmg is only high if more as one archer crit shot a target and this need from the staff to stopp. give us a limited critshot on one target and all is good.

2 Archers can't crit shot the same target. There is a 15 second immunity timer after a crit shot.

and where is now the problem?
Fri 15 May 2020 8:14 AM by Saroi
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 8:13 AM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 8:12 AM
Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 8:03 AM
the dmg is only high if more as one archer crit shot a target and this need from the staff to stopp. give us a limited critshot on one target and all is good.

2 Archers can't crit shot the same target. There is a 15 second immunity timer after a crit shot.

and where is now the problem?

There is no problem. You said there needs to be a limited critshot on a target and there already is. So I don't understand what you are actually complaining about.
Fri 15 May 2020 8:21 AM by Razur Ur
Saroi wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 8:14 AM
There is no problem. You said there needs to be a limited critshot on a target and there already is. So I don't understand what you are actually complaining about.

because this reads all over as if everyone dies by crit shoot from multiple archers.
Fri 15 May 2020 10:54 AM by gotwqqd
The problem isn’t archers or their damage.
It’s stealth.

I think more measures to increase stealth detection need to be implemented when enemy stealth congregate in numbers.
Fri 15 May 2020 12:09 PM by inoeth
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 10:54 AM
The problem isn’t archers or their damage.
It’s stealth.

I think more measures to increase stealth detection need to be implemented when enemy stealth congregate in numbers.

yes make it absolutely pointless to play a stealther....
then archers still hit for 900 and need to grp up even more because stealth is fucked...
more zerg and add is def what we do not need here...
Fri 15 May 2020 12:21 PM by Centenario
In Dota/LoL, you can buy some vision wards.
AoE Stealth Detection for a few minutes.
Fri 15 May 2020 12:33 PM by gotwqqd
inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 12:09 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 10:54 AM
The problem isn’t archers or their damage.
It’s stealth.

I think more measures to increase stealth detection need to be implemented when enemy stealth congregate in numbers.

yes make it absolutely pointless to play a stealther....
then archers still hit for 900 and need to grp up even more because stealth is fucked...
more zerg and add is def what we do not need here...

What are you talking about.

Why would you group if that was inhibits your stealth prowess?

Pretty much all those stealth groupings do is hit solo or an occasional duo. This would be pushed to stealther being primarily solo.

I guess you think it good/challenging for 5 archers to fire at once on a solo character.
Fri 15 May 2020 1:03 PM by inoeth
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 12:33 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 12:09 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 10:54 AM
The problem isn’t archers or their damage.
It’s stealth.

I think more measures to increase stealth detection need to be implemented when enemy stealth congregate in numbers.

yes make it absolutely pointless to play a stealther....
then archers still hit for 900 and need to grp up even more because stealth is fucked...
more zerg and add is def what we do not need here...

What are you talking about.

Why would you group if that was inhibits your stealth prowess?

Pretty much all those stealth groupings do is hit solo or an occasional duo. This would be pushed to stealther being primarily solo.

I guess you think it good/challenging for 5 archers to fire at once on a solo character.

well "congregate" does not implify they they need to be grped at all. if you mean that this should only apply to grped stealthers, you have to say that
but
i dont think that will help much since TS/discord is a thing, grping is not really required to "grp" up you know... ;/
Fri 15 May 2020 1:15 PM by Valaraukar
Waiting to see some nerf also for other classes, maybe we should whine a little bit more as many do now against archers.... Anyway, after archery revamp we're going on with a nerf every 2 days... how much time before it will become gimped as before and everyone will be happy again?

Good job, really good job!

Ah and archers didn't even get a free respec to try this wonderful archery revamp - renerf. Nice done.
Fri 15 May 2020 1:33 PM by inoeth
Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 1:15 PM
Waiting to see some nerf also for other classes, maybe we should whine a little bit more as many do now against archers.... Anyway, after archery revamp we're going on with a nerf every 2 days... how much time before it will become gimped as before and everyone will be happy again?

Good job, really good job!

Ah and archers didn't even get a free respec to try this wonderful archery revamp - renerf. Nice done.

lul
Fri 15 May 2020 2:36 PM by Xanthippus
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Thu 14 May 2020 6:59 AM
Xanthippus wrote: ↑
Wed 13 May 2020 11:14 PM
Cadebrennus no need to get so defensive, although I'm sure you won't be pleased when your ranger gets nerfed back to where it belongs, so I understand. The warrior in question in level 50 and wearing level 51 armour. It shouldn't be getting crit shotted for cap damage just because I forgot a 50 AF charge. You see how ridiculous that is? Something needs to be adjusted there. Numbers of rangers logged in speaks for itself. I have a ranger that's higher RR than yours and I always thought it was just fine. No need to make it outdps a caster while being invisible and also able to melee. Now I refuse to play it because it's blatantly OP and Hib is overpop. So one less cancerous archer in the game.

Not getting defensive at all. This server has quickly devolved into the same whine-fest as Live with players playing like shit and then blaming the game. This is one of the reasons why your Ranger is high RR and mine isn't. I just don't play often anymore, and I left the server twice before, for over a year at a time. Your RR doesn't = knowledge or skill, it = time grinding your RR. Before the RR boost on Live I got RR8 quite easily while being a casual simply by knowing my class and playing to its strength. Here your RR is just from you grinding. So, congratulations I guess? On your time served inflating your epeen?

I'm a better Ranger than you Cade. I played the hell out of mine and thought it was fine, you barely played yours and just moan about how weak the archery is. They were fine, if you thought they weren't then you're just bad dude. Sorry about that.

You can do as many theory crafting writeups as you want, it's no substitute for playing the class/game. I enjoyed my ranger and I excelled on it. You stagnated and complained because you didn't get as many kills as you wanted. Boo hoo.
Fri 15 May 2020 3:35 PM by Pao
Why nerfing Archer further? Just reduce archer dmg by archers around in one area.

Its annoying that archer got further nerfed because of op ranger and the dumb zerging archers.
Fri 15 May 2020 3:51 PM by daytonchambers
Xanthippus wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 2:36 PM
I'm a better Ranger than you Cade. I played the hell out of mine and thought it was fine, you barely played yours and just moan about how weak the archery is. They were fine, if you thought they weren't then you're just bad dude. Sorry about that.



Who are you? Lotta big talkers on this forum without the balls to list their toons in a sig.

Keep in mind I'm not calling you a liar, just merely pointing out that there is no reason to take an anon's statement as fact.
Fri 15 May 2020 4:21 PM by chois
if you see everybody speak about scouts and rangers like bow damage problem and never hunter, Someone realize than it s just a bow speed problem? if all archers can have only a 5.0 bow speed the damage are totally correct, around 600/650 for crit on my hunt with 45+16 bow it seems more than correct no?
Fri 15 May 2020 4:31 PM by Xanthippus
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 3:51 PM
Xanthippus wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 2:36 PM
I'm a better Ranger than you Cade. I played the hell out of mine and thought it was fine, you barely played yours and just moan about how weak the archery is. They were fine, if you thought they weren't then you're just bad dude. Sorry about that.



Who are you? Lotta big talkers on this forum without the balls to list their toons in a sig.

Keep in mind I'm not calling you a liar, just merely pointing out that there is no reason to take an anon's statement as fact.

Nah, no need to out myself when I'm stating an unpopular opinion. Everybody wants to be Legolas, all 85 rangers logged in right now are frothing at the mouths to defend their newfound OP-ness.

I'm someone with the exact same viewpoint as you though, I just recently moved over to mid as well due to continued Hibernian dominance and bandwagoners ruining the balance.

I also refuse to play an OP class, hence why I've stopped playing my ranger for now. I'll give you one hint: I'm between #35 and 45 all time rangers on the server.
Fri 15 May 2020 4:32 PM by Tyrlaan
Pao wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 3:35 PM
Why nerfing Archer further? Just reduce archer dmg by archers around in one area.

Its annoying that archer got further nerfed because of op ranger and the dumb zerging archers.

Highest dps at highest range. With stealth and held shots no less.

IMO they should keep the higher damage at <1000 range and reduce it from there. Also only penetrate bubble at a smaller range. Kinda like point blank shot, power shot and long shot on live but choosing the damage/effect depending on range when fired. On live these extra shots/abilities/pseudo-spells fail if the target leaves their range, here it would just convert into a standard shot or long shot (with lower damage) in the corresponding range brackets. QOL and all.

But no archer should shoot for 800 (or 400 through BT) from 2000-2500 range, from stealth. It´s ridiculous to be hit for serious damage, try to interrupt with an item or QC spell on timers only to get an outside range message just before dying to this crap (because there´s usually more arrows on the way already).
Fri 15 May 2020 4:39 PM by Symptomettes
Gms are just to lazy to fix the real issue here : stealth zerg. So instead of doing some ground work and research to fix it, they just gonna kill the archer class once again and problem solve without wasting time and energy.

Just fuck u for this bad work. And thank you for everything you are doing to keep us playing daoc. But i despise everything you did recently...

That pvp zone : full of shit. It's not like there was like 50 freeshards that died of that fucking thing before phoenix. It's not working... Deal with it.
This stealth change : full of shit. It's a mechanic of the game. If you want to kill it, just remoove the class.
The rework of bleed and style : full of shit. Another 8 man mechanic you work for them.
The pot/charge change : You nerfed small man / solo with that. But we know you want 8 man grp to be the real thing here...
Conc change : 8 man design grp.
Archery change : garbage. Archer comunity didn't ask insane damage or made up root style that make no sense. Read the post and the coments/ideas that player offer instead of no brain QOL change for your custom serv. You just don't really want to spend time working for it and that's it, be honest. So the only thing that came up in your mind was : Let's up damage and see where it goes. ROFL !
Health boost : WTF was that anyway ?
Crit change : Bad work and you still didn't go back to where it was before...

You have kill nukers with the health boost and crit change, now it's time for the stealthers community.

What is your next moove ? CL / ML ?

There are tons of things that needs to be worked on before that and you are still trying to offer us some personnal work that is not design for classic.

It's like your are trying to kill all the work you did since launch.

If you want a 8v8 custom serv. Just say it and be clear to where we are going... Cause all thoses changes are garbage for half the community that still play here.
Fri 15 May 2020 5:05 PM by Symptomettes
Grow up instead of trying to troll me.
Fri 15 May 2020 5:09 PM by Quik
Riac wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 5:02 PM
lol fuck archers
lame ass class made for lame ass ppl lolololol

Wait, don't you play a stealthier assassin?

I put assassins as the more lame of the 2 classes and I don't play either LOL
Fri 15 May 2020 5:10 PM by jwalker
So before every side now is crying like little kids and spreading false info or Videos/screenshots from 1 week ago here are some real numbers

tested bow spec and compared it to yesterday 330 dex then used increased bow spec starting at 45 composite bow till 59 composite -> compared the damage to yesterdays test

THE NERF IS 4% ! Yes only/at least 4% which seems pretty mild. No need to cry for the panicing sniper people
Further, if you take 52 composite as a base
- your damage is decrease by 2.2% for each point below 52
- your damage is increases by 1.6% for each point above 52

Here the numbers you can expect from my ranger:

my numbersyesterday 5.5 bow 100%, 330 dex, 59 composite bow:
vs. cloth/leather were around 400-470
vs studded around 380
vs. chain around 340. (multiply by 2 for crit shot).

After nerf
380-450 vs. cloth/leather
365 vs. studded
325 vs. chain

Remember - this is every 3 seconds (actual 3 seconds not before haste)

Edit: Some more info: @52 composite spec the damage is now approximately 110% of what it was before the whole archery patch. The real difference is that before each point increased your damage only around 0.35% (136% + 0.5% per additional point), while now you still get 1.6% for every point above 52.
Fri 15 May 2020 5:26 PM by dbeattie71
Quik wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 5:09 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 5:02 PM
lol fuck archers
lame ass class made for lame ass ppl lolololol

Wait, don't you play a stealthier assassin?

I put assassins as the more lame of the 2 classes and I don't play either LOL

Yeah, I’ve fought his SB on my melee ranger before. Hit him once and he’d vanish. /shrug
Fri 15 May 2020 5:29 PM by Riac
Quik wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 5:09 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 5:02 PM
lol fuck archers
lame ass class made for lame ass ppl lolololol

Wait, don't you play a stealthier assassin?

I put assassins as the more lame of the 2 classes and I don't play either LOL
would love to know how a sin is lamer than a char that shoots you from 2000 units away and has 4 buttons.
and pretty much adds on everything in sight.
Fri 15 May 2020 5:31 PM by Riac
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 5:26 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 5:09 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 5:02 PM
lol fuck archers
lame ass class made for lame ass ppl lolololol

Wait, don't you play a stealthier assassin?

I put assassins as the more lame of the 2 classes and I don't play either LOL

Yeah, I’ve fought his SB on my melee ranger before. Hit him once and he’d vanish. /shrug
def wasnt me unless you were trying to add or something. i dont vanish in 1v1s unless someone is adding. i just take the L and boat back, its too easy to get around to waste vanish like that. and its just tooo much fun to vanish on the incoming leeching 8 man.

also, what do you think my sbs name is? im betting you dont even know who i am.
Fri 15 May 2020 5:36 PM by Anelyn77
jwalker wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 5:10 PM
So before every side now is crying like little kids and spreading false info or Videos/screenshots from 1 week ago here are some real numbers

tested bow spec and compared it to yesterday 330 dex then used increased bow spec starting at 45 composite bow till 59 composite -> compared the damage to yesterdays test

THE NERF IS 4% ! Yes only/at least 4% which seems pretty mild. No need to cry for the panicing sniper people
Further, if you take 52 composite as a base
- your damage is decrease by 2.2% for each point below 52
- your damage is increases by 1.6% for each point above 52

Here the numbers you can expect from my ranger:

my numbersyesterday 5.5 bow 100%, 330 dex, 59 composite bow:
vs. cloth/leather were around 400-470
vs studded around 380
vs. chain around 340. (multiply by 2 for crit shot).

After nerf
380-450 vs. cloth/leather
365 vs. studded
325 vs. chain

Remember - this is every 3 seconds (actual 3 seconds not before haste)

Edit: Some more info: @52 composite spec the damage is now approximately 110% of what it was before the whole archery patch. The real difference is that before each point increased your damage only around 0.35% (136% + 0.5% per additional point), while now you still get 1.6% for every point above 52.

Similar results give or take small digits for me too. 250 qui and MoArchery to get that 3.0s normal shot as well with 5.5spd bow.

Obviously, higher dex and RR can still push CS to 1k on cloth, but there are so few RR10+ snipers out there you can prolly count them on one hand. And this is fine, that high RR should pack a bigger punch than a RR5.

Cheers and thanks for posting this
Fri 15 May 2020 7:09 PM by jwalker
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 5:36 PM
Similar results give or take small digits for me too. 250 qui and MoArchery to get that 3.0s normal shot as well with 5.5spd bow.

Obviously, higher dex and RR can still push CS to 1k on cloth, but there are so few RR10+ snipers out there you can prolly count them on one hand. And this is fine, that high RR should pack a bigger punch than a RR5.

Cheers and thanks for posting this

yeah true. At rr10 (I'm rr8 now) I could spec to 45 bow and potentially add more points into dex increasing my current damage by 15% damage. This still leaves enough melee to win melee fights vs. low and terrible assassins but even with purge and ip (low ip) up you will not win vs a decent rr4+ assassin in melee (as a rr10 ranger). So I feel it'S probably not worth it to invest that much into bow at high rr. I my case i'd sacrifice 10 CD points for the last 4 bow points and a lot of useful low level ras for that dex 6. Worth it?
Fri 15 May 2020 7:35 PM by gotwqqd
inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 1:03 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 12:33 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 12:09 PM
yes make it absolutely pointless to play a stealther....
then archers still hit for 900 and need to grp up even more because stealth is fucked...
more zerg and add is def what we do not need here...

What are you talking about.

Why would you group if that was inhibits your stealth prowess?

Pretty much all those stealth groupings do is hit solo or an occasional duo. This would be pushed to stealther being primarily solo.

I guess you think it good/challenging for 5 archers to fire at once on a solo character.

well "congregate" does not implify they they need to be grped at all. if you mean that this should only apply to grped stealthers, you have to say that
but
i dont think that will help much since TS/discord is a thing, grping is not really required to "grp" up you know... ;/
No not grouped
Any stealth enemies in area BOTH realms will increase your detect range
Fri 15 May 2020 8:43 PM by Cadebrennus
Xanthippus wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 2:36 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Thu 14 May 2020 6:59 AM
Xanthippus wrote: ↑
Wed 13 May 2020 11:14 PM
Cadebrennus no need to get so defensive, although I'm sure you won't be pleased when your ranger gets nerfed back to where it belongs, so I understand. The warrior in question in level 50 and wearing level 51 armour. It shouldn't be getting crit shotted for cap damage just because I forgot a 50 AF charge. You see how ridiculous that is? Something needs to be adjusted there. Numbers of rangers logged in speaks for itself. I have a ranger that's higher RR than yours and I always thought it was just fine. No need to make it outdps a caster while being invisible and also able to melee. Now I refuse to play it because it's blatantly OP and Hib is overpop. So one less cancerous archer in the game.

Not getting defensive at all. This server has quickly devolved into the same whine-fest as Live with players playing like shit and then blaming the game. This is one of the reasons why your Ranger is high RR and mine isn't. I just don't play often anymore, and I left the server twice before, for over a year at a time. Your RR doesn't = knowledge or skill, it = time grinding your RR. Before the RR boost on Live I got RR8 quite easily while being a casual simply by knowing my class and playing to its strength. Here your RR is just from you grinding. So, congratulations I guess? On your time served inflating your epeen?

I'm a better Ranger than you Cade. I played the hell out of mine and thought it was fine, you barely played yours and just moan about how weak the archery is. They were fine, if you thought they weren't then you're just bad dude. Sorry about that.

You can do as many theory crafting writeups as you want, it's no substitute for playing the class/game. I enjoyed my ranger and I excelled on it. You stagnated and complained because you didn't get as many kills as you wanted. Boo hoo.

Sure you are. Everyone is a legend in their own mind.
Fri 15 May 2020 8:45 PM by Cadebrennus
chois wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 4:21 PM
if you see everybody speak about scouts and rangers like bow damage problem and never hunter, Someone realize than it s just a bow speed problem? if all archers can have only a 5.0 bow speed the damage are totally correct, around 600/650 for crit on my hunt with 45+16 bow it seems more than correct no?

Basically yes, but people would rather whine than look at the facts and numbers.
Fri 15 May 2020 8:46 PM by Cadebrennus
Xanthippus wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 4:31 PM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 3:51 PM
Xanthippus wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 2:36 PM
I'm a better Ranger than you Cade. I played the hell out of mine and thought it was fine, you barely played yours and just moan about how weak the archery is. They were fine, if you thought they weren't then you're just bad dude. Sorry about that.



Who are you? Lotta big talkers on this forum without the balls to list their toons in a sig.

Keep in mind I'm not calling you a liar, just merely pointing out that there is no reason to take an anon's statement as fact.

Nah, no need to out myself when I'm stating an unpopular opinion. Everybody wants to be Legolas, all 85 rangers logged in right now are frothing at the mouths to defend their newfound OP-ness.

I'm someone with the exact same viewpoint as you though, I just recently moved over to mid as well due to continued Hibernian dominance and bandwagoners ruining the balance.

I also refuse to play an OP class, hence why I've stopped playing my ranger for now. I'll give you one hint: I'm between #35 and 45 all time rangers on the server.

... because every badass is afraid to show who they really are, right?
Fri 15 May 2020 11:44 PM by jk123
What is left of the archery buff feels in the end like a giant mockery.
How have we been played. I feel disgusted at this treatment.

Damage now is again at a level so that groups can ignore archers completely.
It is only a factor in the stealth game and for killing levelers.
It is not worth anymore to sacrifice more of your melee capabilities to get more points into the bow-line.

There is really nothting else. No utility shots. No buff for the buff-lines. Nothing.
Except the stealth nerf remains ofc.

Deceptive Governments would be very proud of such a fine work in fooling their people.
Sat 16 May 2020 12:29 AM by gotwqqd
jk123 wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 11:44 PM
What is left of the archery buff feels in the end like a giant mockery.
How have we been played. I feel disgusted at this treatment.

Damage now is again at a level so that groups can ignore archers completely.
It is only a factor in the stealth game and for killing levelers.
It is not worth anymore to sacrifice more of your melee capabilities to get more points into the bow-line.

There is really nothting else. No utility shots. No buff for the buff-lines. Nothing.
Except the stealth nerf remains ofc.

Deceptive Governments would be very proud of such a fine work in fooling their people.
So has there been 2 reduction of damages now since th Ed b original buff?
Sat 16 May 2020 2:15 AM by dbeattie71
jk123 wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 11:44 PM
What is left of the archery buff feels in the end like a giant mockery.
How have we been played. I feel disgusted at this treatment.

Damage now is again at a level so that groups can ignore archers completely.
It is only a factor in the stealth game and for killing levelers.
It is not worth anymore to sacrifice more of your melee capabilities to get more points into the bow-line.

There is really nothting else. No utility shots. No buff for the buff-lines. Nothing.
Except the stealth nerf remains ofc.

Deceptive Governments would be very proud of such a fine work in fooling their people.

Sweet, I can go back to playing mine.
Sat 16 May 2020 4:17 AM by imweasel
So when was the archer classes going to get buffed?

It seems they are even farther behind now before the "buffs" even started...
Sat 16 May 2020 5:29 AM by Astaa
I didn't get much action yesterday after the adjustment but from what I did see, specced archery damage is still pretty high, close to 400 normal damage shots.
Sat 16 May 2020 8:50 AM by Anelyn77
jwalker wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 7:09 PM
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 5:36 PM
Similar results give or take small digits for me too. 250 qui and MoArchery to get that 3.0s normal shot as well with 5.5spd bow.

Obviously, higher dex and RR can still push CS to 1k on cloth, but there are so few RR10+ snipers out there you can prolly count them on one hand. And this is fine, that high RR should pack a bigger punch than a RR5.

Cheers and thanks for posting this

yeah true. At rr10 (I'm rr8 now) I could spec to 45 bow and potentially add more points into dex increasing my current damage by 15% damage. This still leaves enough melee to win melee fights vs. low and terrible assassins but even with purge and ip (low ip) up you will not win vs a decent rr4+ assassin in melee (as a rr10 ranger). So I feel it'S probably not worth it to invest that much into bow at high rr. I my case i'd sacrifice 10 CD points for the last 4 bow points and a lot of useful low level ras for that dex 6. Worth it?

Why would you ever want to fight sins as an archer? Even at high RR and with IP3 / purge 5 w/e you are still a 15m trick pony obv if that is your sense of fun, then by all means, I don't want to play a class that must wait 15m between every fight I take (you meant in general not as in your persona / character ^^).

If you really want to kill sins, make a Necro, MoC cab / SM, earth wiz, BD, minstrel, abuse stealth lore pots and go to town and force peeps to vanish if that's your game plan

I never saw archers as a counter or equal to assassins in DaoC. Archers should be ranged terrors that rain arrows on unsuspecting foes and make a daring escape when their location is compromised, just like a real world sniper would.

Same thing why spec nuke casters (those who assist on debuffed targets) will focus mostly on increasing their dmg and cast speed so they perform at maximum capacity / level, and won't try to do random stuff which a support caster does much better, same as with a support caster that will do it's best to interrupt, disease, nearsight, snare, root (not tanks obv), mezz, stun (again not tanks), debuff stats, debuff resists etc, and not pump dmg rambo like (also their RA's will be built toward support and not dps).

Sure some classes (looking at you earth wiz) have both great utility and great dmg (which is why they are so prevalent in zergs / keep fights), but we never had threads about 200+ wizards in RvR wrecking peeps by asisst bolting or AoE DoTing etc.

I always try to build the class I am playing to fit a specific role instead of trying to do a bit of everything but not being great at anything (minstrel being the exception to this rule - IMHO). So for me an archer should do all it can to achieve as much ranged dmg and deliver it as fast as possible (been full bow on my huntress since back in OF, never had a problem killing peeps and avoiding stealthers).

Cheers <3
Sat 16 May 2020 9:35 AM by Astaa
Tore through some zergling scouts earlier near CG gate.

750-790 on crit 385ish on normal shot
Sat 16 May 2020 10:04 AM by inoeth
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Sat 16 May 2020 8:50 AM
jwalker wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 7:09 PM
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 5:36 PM
Similar results give or take small digits for me too. 250 qui and MoArchery to get that 3.0s normal shot as well with 5.5spd bow.

Obviously, higher dex and RR can still push CS to 1k on cloth, but there are so few RR10+ snipers out there you can prolly count them on one hand. And this is fine, that high RR should pack a bigger punch than a RR5.

Cheers and thanks for posting this

yeah true. At rr10 (I'm rr8 now) I could spec to 45 bow and potentially add more points into dex increasing my current damage by 15% damage. This still leaves enough melee to win melee fights vs. low and terrible assassins but even with purge and ip (low ip) up you will not win vs a decent rr4+ assassin in melee (as a rr10 ranger). So I feel it'S probably not worth it to invest that much into bow at high rr. I my case i'd sacrifice 10 CD points for the last 4 bow points and a lot of useful low level ras for that dex 6. Worth it?

Why would you ever want to fight sins as an archer? Even at high RR and with IP3 / purge 5 w/e you are still a 15m trick pony obv if that is your sense of fun, then by all means, I don't want to play a class that must wait 15m between every fight I take (you meant in general not as in your persona / character ^^).

If you really want to kill sins, make a Necro, MoC cab / SM, earth wiz, BD, minstrel, abuse stealth lore pots and go to town and force peeps to vanish if that's your game plan

I never saw archers as a counter or equal to assassins in DaoC. Archers should be ranged terrors that rain arrows on unsuspecting foes and make a daring escape when their location is compromised, just like a real world sniper would.

Same thing why spec nuke casters (those who assist on debuffed targets) will focus mostly on increasing their dmg and cast speed so they perform at maximum capacity / level, and won't try to do random stuff which a support caster does much better, same as with a support caster that will do it's best to interrupt, disease, nearsight, snare, root (not tanks obv), mezz, stun (again not tanks), debuff stats, debuff resists etc, and not pump dmg rambo like (also their RA's will be built toward support and not dps).

Sure some classes (looking at you earth wiz) have both great utility and great dmg (which is why they are so prevalent in zergs / keep fights), but we never had threads about 200+ wizards in RvR wrecking peeps by asisst bolting or AoE DoTing etc.

I always try to build the class I am playing to fit a specific role instead of trying to do a bit of everything but not being great at anything (minstrel being the exception to this rule - IMHO). So for me an archer should do all it can to achieve as much ranged dmg and deliver it as fast as possible (been full bow on my huntress since back in OF, never had a problem killing peeps and avoiding stealthers).

Cheers <3

just because you cant doesnt mean anyone can or should lol
Sat 16 May 2020 11:14 AM by Pao
I dont understand why Archer make too much dmg but Sins own everything super hard and there is no issue. When my Sin was rr4 I killed high rr full tanks. they way too strong.
Keep dmg high and nerf ranger. They do way too much in melee.
Sat 16 May 2020 11:41 AM by Eoril
My 7L mage just got two-shot by a 5L ranger.

First arrow : 980 (-344) + 33
Second arrow : 490 (-172) + critical 147

--

Now a 900+24 arrow by a 7L ranger

---

What does mean "reduce sightly" again ?
Sat 16 May 2020 12:21 PM by Anelyn77
[/quote]

just because you cant doesnt mean anyone can or should lol
[/quote]

I can, I choose not to, stop acting like you're some superhero hunter who melee's peeps every 15m and it's the only way to play an archer and everyone else is stupid for doing anything else (which, surprise surprise is working for them).

Anyway, you aren't really looking for a debate you just try repeatedly to make us believe that archery is crap and going 50 spear is the only way to play an archer. Kudos to you, I have nothing against what you or other peeps enjoy, that doesn't make you a better archer or more knowledgeable of the class.

All the best <3

Cheers!
Sat 16 May 2020 1:16 PM by Astaa
Eoril wrote: ↑
Sat 16 May 2020 11:41 AM
My 7L mage just got two-shot by a 5L ranger.

First arrow : 980 (-344) + 33
Second arrow : 490 (-172) + critical 147

--

Now a 900+24 arrow by a 7L ranger

---

What does mean "reduce sightly" again ?

Great, isn't it?
Sat 16 May 2020 1:31 PM by dbeattie71
Eoril wrote: ↑
Sat 16 May 2020 11:41 AM
My 7L mage just got two-shot by a 5L ranger.

First arrow : 980 (-344) + 33
Second arrow : 490 (-172) + critical 147

--

Now a 900+24 arrow by a 7L ranger

---

What does mean "reduce sightly" again ?

Screen shot?
Sat 16 May 2020 1:43 PM by Cadebrennus
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Sat 16 May 2020 1:31 PM
Eoril wrote: ↑
Sat 16 May 2020 11:41 AM
My 7L mage just got two-shot by a 5L ranger.

First arrow : 980 (-344) + 33
Second arrow : 490 (-172) + critical 147

--

Now a 900+24 arrow by a 7L ranger

---

What does mean "reduce sightly" again ?

Screen shot?

[file not found]
Sat 16 May 2020 2:42 PM by inoeth
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Sat 16 May 2020 12:21 PM

just because you cant doesnt mean anyone can or should lol
[/quote]

I can, I choose not to, stop acting like you're some superhero hunter who melee's peeps every 15m and it's the only way to play an archer and everyone else is stupid for doing anything else (which, surprise surprise is working for them).

Anyway, you aren't really looking for a debate you just try repeatedly to make us believe that archery is crap and going 50 spear is the only way to play an archer. Kudos to you, I have nothing against what you or other peeps enjoy, that doesn't make you a better archer or more knowledgeable of the class.

All the best <3

Cheers!
[/quote]

yet you cry about getting killed by assassins lol
Sat 16 May 2020 4:11 PM by Quik
Riac wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 5:29 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 5:09 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 5:02 PM
lol fuck archers
lame ass class made for lame ass ppl lolololol

Wait, don't you play a stealthier assassin?

I put assassins as the more lame of the 2 classes and I don't play either LOL
would love to know how a sin is lamer than a char that shoots you from 2000 units away and has 4 buttons.
and pretty much adds on everything in sight.

You mean like cheesing poison/disease using 20 different weapons until you get them to stick and stay? Or do you mean stealthers who can pick their target and when things aren't going right they just vanish? I can live with archery dmg, but stealthers are garbage all to themselves.

I don't mind losing at all, and it happens a lot, just love having a stealthier attack me, drop his dots, reapply if they get purged after timer, and then vanish if he can't finish the job because it might affect his e-peen lvl.

Give me archers any day.
Sat 16 May 2020 4:28 PM by Cadebrennus
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sat 16 May 2020 2:42 PM
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Sat 16 May 2020 12:21 PM

just because you cant doesnt mean anyone can or should lol

I can, I choose not to, stop acting like you're some superhero hunter who melee's peeps every 15m and it's the only way to play an archer and everyone else is stupid for doing anything else (which, surprise surprise is working for them).

Anyway, you aren't really looking for a debate you just try repeatedly to make us believe that archery is crap and going 50 spear is the only way to play an archer. Kudos to you, I have nothing against what you or other peeps enjoy, that doesn't make you a better archer or more knowledgeable of the class.

All the best <3

Cheers!
[/quote]

yet you cry about getting killed by assassins lol
[/quote]

And here I thought I was special. It turns out that you troll everybody 😂
Sat 16 May 2020 4:44 PM by Vangonaj
OMG nerfing bow damage again. Why not remove bow and force all archers play mele spec.

DOL servers hating bow sinse first beta.
Sat 16 May 2020 6:58 PM by Anelyn77
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sat 16 May 2020 2:42 PM
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Sat 16 May 2020 12:21 PM

just because you cant doesnt mean anyone can or should lol

I can, I choose not to, stop acting like you're some superhero hunter who melee's peeps every 15m and it's the only way to play an archer and everyone else is stupid for doing anything else (which, surprise surprise is working for them).

Anyway, you aren't really looking for a debate you just try repeatedly to make us believe that archery is crap and going 50 spear is the only way to play an archer. Kudos to you, I have nothing against what you or other peeps enjoy, that doesn't make you a better archer or more knowledgeable of the class.

All the best <3

Cheers!
[/quote]

yet you cry about getting killed by assassins lol
[/quote]

I never did. And I have yet to see an assassin killing me during BG, or when soloing on my necro. Maybe your hunter feels strong enough to try 1v1 Aaicha? By all means, I'll give you stealth opener and 5 attacks before I react. We can record it too for amusement. Put your money where your mouth is? Kthxbye.

Cheers <3
Sat 16 May 2020 7:02 PM by Anelyn77
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 16 May 2020 4:28 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sat 16 May 2020 2:42 PM
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Sat 16 May 2020 12:21 PM

just because you cant doesnt mean anyone can or should lol

I can, I choose not to, stop acting like you're some superhero hunter who melee's peeps every 15m and it's the only way to play an archer and everyone else is stupid for doing anything else (which, surprise surprise is working for them).

Anyway, you aren't really looking for a debate you just try repeatedly to make us believe that archery is crap and going 50 spear is the only way to play an archer. Kudos to you, I have nothing against what you or other peeps enjoy, that doesn't make you a better archer or more knowledgeable of the class.

All the best <3

Cheers!

yet you cry about getting killed by assassins lol
[/quote]

And here I thought I was special. It turns out that you troll everybody 😂
[/quote]

He's just feeling special, but he's just a 15m hero picking on lowbies, cause any high RR sin will handle it to him on a plate. Same with any visi soloer that doesn't keyboard turn lol. It took 7 rangers assisting to take my necro down today at rens (I didn't use FP or any other RA) and they shot it for like 10s before it died lol, but if he's feeling brave on his 50 spear let him duel me I will let him go to town till pet is half hp (will be a while, trust me) then I'll send him packing haha <3
Sat 16 May 2020 8:42 PM by gotwqqd
Pao wrote: ↑
Sat 16 May 2020 11:14 AM
I dont understand why Archer make too much dmg but Sins own everything super hard and there is no issue. When my Sin was rr4 I killed high rr full tanks. they way too strong.
Keep dmg high and nerf ranger. They do way too much in melee.

This
Must be great when you can pa/stun without enemy having time to react due to server lag
Apply your poisons then just run away and let the viper dots finish off
Sat 16 May 2020 8:46 PM by dbeattie71
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 16 May 2020 4:28 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sat 16 May 2020 2:42 PM
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Sat 16 May 2020 12:21 PM

just because you cant doesnt mean anyone can or should lol

I can, I choose not to, stop acting like you're some superhero hunter who melee's peeps every 15m and it's the only way to play an archer and everyone else is stupid for doing anything else (which, surprise surprise is working for them).

Anyway, you aren't really looking for a debate you just try repeatedly to make us believe that archery is crap and going 50 spear is the only way to play an archer. Kudos to you, I have nothing against what you or other peeps enjoy, that doesn't make you a better archer or more knowledgeable of the class.

All the best <3

Cheers!

yet you cry about getting killed by assassins lol
[/quote]

And here I thought I was special. It turns out that you troll everybody 😂
[/quote]

I was gonna make a hunter named, Superherohunter, not now 😂
Sun 17 May 2020 12:32 AM by Xanthippus
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 8:46 PM
Xanthippus wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 4:31 PM
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 3:51 PM
Who are you? Lotta big talkers on this forum without the balls to list their toons in a sig.

Keep in mind I'm not calling you a liar, just merely pointing out that there is no reason to take an anon's statement as fact.

Nah, no need to out myself when I'm stating an unpopular opinion. Everybody wants to be Legolas, all 85 rangers logged in right now are frothing at the mouths to defend their newfound OP-ness.

I'm someone with the exact same viewpoint as you though, I just recently moved over to mid as well due to continued Hibernian dominance and bandwagoners ruining the balance.

I also refuse to play an OP class, hence why I've stopped playing my ranger for now. I'll give you one hint: I'm between #35 and 45 all time rangers on the server.

... because every badass is afraid to show who they really are, right?

Nah, I have so many characters it would be ridiculous to list them in my sig. I'll PM you in game on my ranger and we can have a duel if that tickles your fancy.
Sun 17 May 2020 6:00 AM by Cadebrennus
Xanthippus wrote: ↑
Sun 17 May 2020 12:32 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 8:46 PM
Xanthippus wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 4:31 PM
Nah, no need to out myself when I'm stating an unpopular opinion. Everybody wants to be Legolas, all 85 rangers logged in right now are frothing at the mouths to defend their newfound OP-ness.

I'm someone with the exact same viewpoint as you though, I just recently moved over to mid as well due to continued Hibernian dominance and bandwagoners ruining the balance.

I also refuse to play an OP class, hence why I've stopped playing my ranger for now. I'll give you one hint: I'm between #35 and 45 all time rangers on the server.

... because every badass is afraid to show who they really are, right?

Nah, I have so many characters it would be ridiculous to list them in my sig. I'll PM you in game on my ranger and we can have a duel if that tickles your fancy.

List your Ranger here for all to see.
Sun 17 May 2020 11:33 AM by Eoril
I wonder about the ethics of people who, at first reflex, accuse others of lying
Maybe that reveals their own practices
Sun 17 May 2020 4:54 PM by imweasel
I'm getting done with archery. I guess some things are just to hard to implement.

*Shudders at the thought of upcoming style review/redo*

Well, we all have that to look forward to...
Mon 18 May 2020 7:11 AM by Noashakra
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 17 May 2020 6:00 AM
Xanthippus wrote: ↑
Sun 17 May 2020 12:32 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 15 May 2020 8:46 PM
... because every badass is afraid to show who they really are, right?

Nah, I have so many characters it would be ridiculous to list them in my sig. I'll PM you in game on my ranger and we can have a duel if that tickles your fancy.

List your Ranger here for all to see.

Except maybe babysharks, all of the chars between 35 and 45 are zergers/adders so I don't know what he is proud of.
Meiachxx solo sometimes too, but damn he made most of his ranks with his friends zerging in uppland and I saw him getting rekt by a tank rr4 this weekend by playing poorly.
Mon 18 May 2020 7:41 AM by inoeth
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Sat 16 May 2020 7:02 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 16 May 2020 4:28 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Sat 16 May 2020 2:42 PM
just because you cant doesnt mean anyone can or should lol

I can, I choose not to, stop acting like you're some superhero hunter who melee's peeps every 15m and it's the only way to play an archer and everyone else is stupid for doing anything else (which, surprise surprise is working for them).

Anyway, you aren't really looking for a debate you just try repeatedly to make us believe that archery is crap and going 50 spear is the only way to play an archer. Kudos to you, I have nothing against what you or other peeps enjoy, that doesn't make you a better archer or more knowledgeable of the class.

All the best <3

Cheers!

yet you cry about getting killed by assassins lol

And here I thought I was special. It turns out that you troll everybody 😂
[/quote]

He's just feeling special, but he's just a 15m hero picking on lowbies, cause any high RR sin will handle it to him on a plate. Same with any visi soloer that doesn't keyboard turn lol. It took 7 rangers assisting to take my necro down today at rens (I didn't use FP or any other RA) and they shot it for like 10s before it died lol, but if he's feeling brave on his 50 spear let him duel me I will let him go to town till pet is half hp (will be a while, trust me) then I'll send him packing haha <3
[/quote]

necro lul
Mon 18 May 2020 1:45 PM by Noashakra
"Let me show you how badass I am with my class that can kill 2 melee class 8L+ with RR3 and two keys"
Mon 18 May 2020 5:34 PM by tibofeif
Archers are still hitting tanks for over 700 dmg crit shots and 300 dmg regular shots. (I have already submitted screenshots of this already to Maharet so you know this statement is true)

If this is ur desired result for damage. There is a couple of new issue with archers now since they hit like casters.

1) They should be wearing cloth armor. This is an unfair advantage since the damage output of archer is the same as a caster they should suffer the same downsides.
2) Either remove stealth from the class or dramatically lower how many spec points they get to in order to avoid high stealth and bow specs or give stealth to all classes.
3) The cost of archery shots now hitting like casters they should have the cost of endurance dramatically increased so they are comparable to how much mana casters use to cast spells.

The alternative to all this is to dramatically lower the damage of the bow since the advantage of stealth with massive damage and no real drawbacks is simply going to erode away the population for non-stealther classes. We are starting to see this already with the explosion of archers, especially in Hibernia. I have submitted screenshots of the rangers population on the server exceeding over 100. Hibernia generally has almost the same archer population of the other two realms combined. I suspect this is the case due to the fact they can spec red self buffs, run 5.5-speed bows, and the difficulty of spotting lurikeens because of their size.
Mon 18 May 2020 8:19 PM by jk123
tibofeif wrote: Archers are still hitting tanks for over 700 dmg crit shots and 300 dmg regular shots. (I have already submitted screenshots of this already to Maharet so you know this statement is true)

If this is ur desired result for damage. There is a couple of new issue with archers now since they hit like casters.

1) They should be wearing cloth armor. This is an unfair advantage since the damage output of archer is the same as a caster they should suffer the same downsides.
2) Either remove stealth from the class or dramatically lower how many spec points they get to in order to avoid high stealth and bow specs or give stealth to all classes.
3) The cost of archery shots now hitting like casters they should have the cost of endurance dramatically increased so they are comparable to how much mana casters use to cast spells.

The alternative to all this is to dramatically lower the damage of the bow since the advantage of stealth with massive damage and no real drawbacks is simply going to erode away the population for non-stealther classes. We are starting to see this already with the explosion of archers, especially in Hibernia. I have submitted screenshots of the rangers population on the server exceeding over 100. Hibernia generally has almost the same archer population of the other two realms combined. I suspect this is the case due to the fact they can spec red self buffs, run 5.5-speed bows, and the difficulty of spotting lurikeens because of their size.

->
1. Noob
2. Biased
3. Never played an Archer/doesn't know game mechanics

If you would actually make a case worth discussing, but this is more like trolling.
Sad.
Mon 18 May 2020 9:27 PM by tibofeif
1) if 7l2 is noob then yes I am.
2) if having a ranger is bias then I am bias.
3) see point two....
Tue 19 May 2020 4:46 AM by CubanXv
1.) Still can be hella noob with any RR. But your original point is moot. We do not have access to a quickcast, we have no ranged crowd control, we have no debuffs, we cannot spec MOC/Ichor/TWF/NM. Why should I trade my pathetic armor for cloth because my 3second shot hits for a 1second cast? Go home you are drunk.
2.) Still drunk homie, go home. Stealth on all classes. I cant even, this was a real suggestion?
3.) See point 1 as to why we should not have any extra cons to being a bow class.

All in all, the hate for archers is laughable. We are a 1 trick pony, if you have not learned to play against it yet I really do not know what to say about you. Rangers have been FOTM a few times in this server, at the start everyone hopped on for the melee ranger once they realized how strong it could be. The hype will fade and people will migrate to other chars. Cant blame anyone for trying out a reworked class. They have nerfed the bow twice since, everyone knows it was under powered prior to any changes. Hence the legions of archers refusing to spec above 35 and majority rangers going much much lower than that. Now we have somewhat a leg to stand on with our bows and every is still screaming nerf weeks after. These classes even with the recent buff are not out performing their original competitors. I wish everyone would take an extra second and really think on what they are asking for.
Tue 19 May 2020 5:01 AM by gotwqqd
CubanXv wrote: ↑
Tue 19 May 2020 4:46 AM
1.) Still can be hella noob with any RR. But your original point is moot. We do not have access to a quickcast, we have no ranged crowd control, we have no debuffs, we cannot spec MOC/Ichor/TWF/NM. Why should I trade my pathetic armor for cloth because my 3second shot hits for a 1second cast? Go home you are drunk.
2.) Still drunk homie, go home. Stealth on all classes. I cant even, this was a real suggestion?
3.) See point 1 as to why we should not have any extra cons to being a bow class.

All in all, the hate for archers is laughable. We are a 1 trick pony, if you have not learned to play against it yet I really do not know what to say about you. Rangers have been FOTM a few times in this server, at the start everyone hopped on for the melee ranger once they realized how strong it could be. The hype will fade and people will migrate to other chars. Cant blame anyone for trying out a reworked class. They have nerfed the bow twice since, everyone knows it was under powered prior to any changes. Hence the legions of archers refusing to spec above 35 and majority rangers going much much lower than that. Now we have somewhat a leg to stand on with our bows and every is still screaming nerf weeks after. These classes even with the recent buff are not out performing their original competitors. I wish everyone would take an extra second and really think on what they are asking for.
Even my Brit scout only went to 27 archery
Only my hunter bothered with 36 archer as I couldn’t justify the points elsewhere
Tue 19 May 2020 3:55 PM by imweasel
So is 40 bow the new max?

If damage doesn't seem to increase enough to justify the points spent, is it better to use them on something else? Also due to the fact that the new "45 spec ability" seems to be vaporware?
Thu 21 May 2020 4:22 PM by Quathan
So we had the damage buffed a bit and nerfed a little again... So instead of looking at the damage, we could have a look at utilities and mechanics...

1. Volley: Bring back the old Volley where you could move ground-target around after each shot. IMO it made it much more interesting. Where you actually had to aim at the ground and predict where people were moving.

2. Rapid Fire: In addition to the current effect add 1.5-2.0 sec snare effect to it... This will give Archers a tool to slow down their enemies so they can't run away that easy and keep the damage low since they have to fire at cap or almost cap speed in order to keep up the effect on their target.

3. "Flank Shot": An alternative to the Rapid Fire change could making a new shot that would only be useable from behind/side target and give a snare effect when they try to run off.

4. Stealth: Some hate it and some love it. Perhaps a mechanic that makes it more interesting to not be in stealth could make folks happier(wishful thinking). A percentage increase in damage increase for each minute not being in stealth. This would ofc. have to be monitored very closely and carefully perhaps a nerf of the regular damage to regulate and justify the buff from this. But what I had in mind was something like being out of stealth for 10-15 min would give you 10-15% damage increase. If you then choose to stealth you will lose the damage buff and have to start over... This will make Archers have to choose between damage or taking cover. I hope this could make Archer a more likable character to invite to a group. At big fights making the Archer not re-stealth all the time only to see them pop out a sec after and run again.

5. Critical Shot: I see people complain about this "ZOMG ONE HIT THIS MUCH DMG - OP SH*T" etc. Though I don't really agree. But to justify one or more of the above changes. Perhaps make it only useable from stealth... nerf the damage bonus or simply remove it.

Oh and please give Scouts an ability to give themselves 75 Dex/Qui... The realm skill points the have to spend to catch up to the other Archers accumulate more than two realm ranks.

I hope some of this could be an inspiration for some more interesting suggested changes for Archers. Thanks for reading <3
Sun 24 May 2020 4:12 AM by pollojack
So this was a flat ~45 dmg boost to my spec, ~90 on crit shot. Assuming the RR5 I shot was templated.

I run 34+15 bow and used to crit shot for ~500 and now crit shot for ~590.

Frankly, this is the adjustment I thought dmg needed. I little more for hybrids because you will likely get rupted after first or second shot but people that want a firing team can do their thing with 50+x bow. They'll obliterate solos, and I was on the receiving end of that already, but a minst + 4 would obliterate a solo anyway but archers are much more vulnerable to adds, like bigger groups, unlike sins that can vanish. What I'm getting at is it is a lot of work to set up a group of archers which can easily be taken down by a three or four man of visis.

Crit shot is still unlikely to punch through a tanks defenses. Parry, Block, and Evade together make landing a shot let alone crit unlikely.
Mon 1 Jun 2020 11:23 AM by Siouxsie
The 3rd (last) nerf to Archery basically brought the damage down to just a sliver above what it used to be.
Is this what we're to expect? Nothing to really change or get fixed properly?
Mon 1 Jun 2020 11:34 AM by gruenesschaf
Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 11:23 AM
The 3rd (last) nerf to Archery basically brought the damage down to just a sliver above what it used to be.
Is this what we're to expect? Nothing to really change or get fixed properly?


Archery changes / buffs have to be handled carefully as a noticable increase in archers and especially archer zergs would be a lot worse than having useless archery, therefore the behavior after these changes will be watched closely.
Mon 1 Jun 2020 9:04 PM by gotwqqd
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 11:34 AM
Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 11:23 AM
The 3rd (last) nerf to Archery basically brought the damage down to just a sliver above what it used to be.
Is this what we're to expect? Nothing to really change or get fixed properly?


Archery changes / buffs have to be handled carefully as a noticable increase in archers and especially archer zergs would be a lot worse than having useless archery, therefore the behavior after these changes will be watched closely.
Well from my perspective the sniper fervor has died down now and the damage is in need of a bump. Too much was reduced
Tue 2 Jun 2020 12:17 AM by DarkDavion
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 11:34 AM
Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 11:23 AM
The 3rd (last) nerf to Archery basically brought the damage down to just a sliver above what it used to be.
Is this what we're to expect? Nothing to really change or get fixed properly?


Archery changes / buffs have to be handled carefully as a noticable increase in archers and especially archer zergs would be a lot worse than having useless archery, therefore the behavior after these changes will be watched closely.


Why penalize the class entirely if the problem is behavior? I liked to go roam solo with my ranger archery specced. If you want to hit behavior hit that! Dramatically reduce the damage taken by 2 + archers does not eliminate the possibility for an archer to roam alone, it makes no sense
Tue 2 Jun 2020 1:38 AM by imweasel
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 11:34 AM
Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 11:23 AM
The 3rd (last) nerf to Archery basically brought the damage down to just a sliver above what it used to be.
Is this what we're to expect? Nothing to really change or get fixed properly?


Archery changes / buffs have to be handled carefully as a noticable increase in archers and especially archer zergs would be a lot worse than having useless archery, therefore the behavior after these changes will be watched closely.
I'm going out on a limb and say this is the worse reason ever.

You are now dictating behavior? That's so far from the nature of this game...it's like penalizing zergs because they are larger than other zergs...
Tue 2 Jun 2020 3:13 AM by gruenesschaf
imweasel wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 1:38 AM
I'm going out on a limb and say this is the worse reason ever.

You are now dictating behavior? That's so far from the nature of this game...it's like penalizing zergs because they are larger than other zergs...

Nerfs are pretty much always because of behavior which in turn is due to player perception. If an ability is completely OP but nobody uses it the likelihood of it getting nerfed is pretty low, only if something is actually used does it get evaluated at all, however, at the same time it's pretty much impossible for an ability to not be used if it is (perceived as) OP.

Buffs are a bit different, while the evaluation is still affected by usage, if something is basically never used it would be a good candidate for a buff as non usage is a pretty good indicator that something just sucks, however, as long as the class that has this ability has an otherwise usable kit there is no need to buff everything that isn't constantly used, good examples here are menta menta or summoning sm or ench ench or matter sorcs.

In this case it's pretty simple: the archer damage after the buff was perceived as OP (relics didn't help, pretty much nobody really speccing high enough in archery before the change and hence making the effective damage difference after the change even greater didn't help either), this lead to an explosion in the archer population. And I don't think really anyone would argue that a very high archer population would be something desirable.
Tue 2 Jun 2020 4:14 AM by gotwqqd
My opinion
As highish/sniper spec
Hunter is fine
I’d advocate the rangers DA gets added to bow damage as a percentage of bow spec(starts @40archery)
Scouts need special help in archery line
I don’t want self buffs for scouts but innate damage bonus or effects as archery progresses
Tue 2 Jun 2020 6:18 AM by imweasel
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 3:13 AM
imweasel wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 1:38 AM
I'm going out on a limb and say this is the worse reason ever.

You are now dictating behavior? That's so far from the nature of this game...it's like penalizing zergs because they are larger than other zergs...

Nerfs are pretty much always because of behavior which in turn is due to player perception. If an ability is completely OP but nobody uses it the likelihood of it getting nerfed is pretty low, only if something is actually used does it get evaluated at all, however, at the same time it's pretty much impossible for an ability to not be used if it is (perceived as) OP.

Buffs are a bit different, while the evaluation is still affected by usage, if something is basically never used it would be a good candidate for a buff as non usage is a pretty good indicator that something just sucks, however, as long as the class that has this ability has an otherwise usable kit there is no need to buff everything that isn't constantly used, good examples here are menta menta or summoning sm or ench ench or matter sorcs.

In this case it's pretty simple: the archer damage after the buff was perceived as OP (relics didn't help, pretty much nobody really speccing high enough in archery before the change and hence making the effective damage difference after the change even greater didn't help either), this lead to an explosion in the archer population. And I don't think really anyone would argue that a very high archer population would be something desirable.
So basically, you pretty much well agree with me. You dictate behavior. If players do something that you don't like, well then you just nerf it. Or you initially design things so classes fit in the one or two specs that you think the class should be spec'ed and played as.

After all this work between buffs and nerfs, you have turned archery back into 'no need to spec over 35 because it's just not worth the spec points to invest that high in'. This is literally what was wrong with bow spec TO BEGIN WITH. Everything was cookie cutter. Now it will be again.

And I won't even get into the stealth changes. You backed off on those nerfs because you put archery back into the same box it was in.

In other words, you didn't accomplish anything.

I am even now more fearful of style change rework as I don't believe the devs currently working on this game actually understand the difference on what balance is other than their perception of how they want a class to be played and as long as players spec and play the classes that way then 'it's balanced'. End of story.

This game has gotten so cookie cutter on spec lines it makes me wonder why bother to allow players the choice? You are literally forced to spec a toon/class into a shoe horn spec. It's gotten so highly specialized as there is a pve spec and a pvp spec for classes.

The majority of mid melee classes spec in hammer, unless you are a hunter in which case you can take spear.

Every scout specs 45 in shield of all things because that's the only viable spec so they can have a chance in pvp. It's not archery. It's not stealth. It's shield that takes priority. On a 'bow' class.

Every single bard specs 43 nurture. Every. Single. One. Then the only other choice you make is 37 or 47 music.

Ad nauseum...

I am beginning to understand players complaining that resources should be completely used to fix bugs first rather than waste time on trying to change cookie cutter spec paths.

It's literally a waste of time. I think the devs did a good job on QoL changes to the game and taking the tediousness of certain things out. I applaud you for that.

The rest just feels like a gerbil/hamster/small rodent running in his wheel treadmill on a classic pay server.

Sorry to have taken up your time.
Tue 2 Jun 2020 6:47 AM by gruenesschaf
imweasel wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 6:18 AM
This game has gotten so cookie cutter on spec lines it makes me wonder why bother to allow players the choice? You are literally forced to spec a toon/class into a shoe horn spec. It's gotten so highly specialized as there is a pve spec and a pvp spec for classes.

The majority of mid melee classes spec in hammer, unless you are a hunter in which case you can take spear.

Every scout specs 45 in shield of all things because that's the only viable spec so they can have a chance in pvp. It's not archery. It's not stealth. It's shield that takes priority. On a 'bow' class.

Every single bard specs 43 nurture. Every. Single. One. Then the only other choice you make is 37 or 47 music.

Please point out a daoc patch level that wasn't 100% cookie cutter to the point that most classes have precisely 1 viable spec and some 2 or at most 3. There never was a point in the history of daoc where actual spec variety was a thing.
Tue 2 Jun 2020 7:44 AM by DarkDavion
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 6:47 AM
imweasel wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 6:18 AM
This game has gotten so cookie cutter on spec lines it makes me wonder why bother to allow players the choice? You are literally forced to spec a toon/class into a shoe horn spec. It's gotten so highly specialized as there is a pve spec and a pvp spec for classes.

The majority of mid melee classes spec in hammer, unless you are a hunter in which case you can take spear.

Every scout specs 45 in shield of all things because that's the only viable spec so they can have a chance in pvp. It's not archery. It's not stealth. It's shield that takes priority. On a 'bow' class.

Every single bard specs 43 nurture. Every. Single. One. Then the only other choice you make is 37 or 47 music.

Please point out a daoc patch level that wasn't 100% cookie cutter to the point that most classes have precisely 1 viable spec and some 2 or at most 3. There never was a point in the history of daoc where actual spec variety was a thing.
U right, but the problem here is that an archer class has archery not viable... The only way for play a ranger is to play the melee ranger lol.. Isn't better make archery viable for rangers? Like for hunter and for scout.. Nerf the melee and buff the archery, if I pick an archer class is supposed to have archery viable. I started my ranger when u announced the buff to archery, but after u nerfed it into the ground is like I spent so many hours in crap, bcs instead of play a melee ranger I will just play my NS. As I said if the problem is the behavior nerf it, not the class.. U spoke about utility for archery like a snare/disease/near sight, u can put that at lvl 50 archery or something to make archery viable.. U just give up in good ideas too quickly following the QQ of the ppl (cough pvp zone cough)
Tue 2 Jun 2020 2:56 PM by imweasel
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 6:47 AM
imweasel wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 6:18 AM
This game has gotten so cookie cutter on spec lines it makes me wonder why bother to allow players the choice? You are literally forced to spec a toon/class into a shoe horn spec. It's gotten so highly specialized as there is a pve spec and a pvp spec for classes.

The majority of mid melee classes spec in hammer, unless you are a hunter in which case you can take spear.

Every scout specs 45 in shield of all things because that's the only viable spec so they can have a chance in pvp. It's not archery. It's not stealth. It's shield that takes priority. On a 'bow' class.

Every single bard specs 43 nurture. Every. Single. One. Then the only other choice you make is 37 or 47 music.

Please point out a daoc patch level that wasn't 100% cookie cutter to the point that most classes have precisely 1 viable spec and some 2 or at most 3. There never was a point in the history of daoc where actual spec variety was a thing.

If that's the case, why are you even bothering to try? Just put in qol changes and just let it be. You are stuck in the past with the only redeeming vision is getting rid of the painful tedious tasks in the initial game.

In other words, don't take risks. Most importantly of all is stop disappointing the player base.
Tue 2 Jun 2020 4:25 PM by nineonezero
what about physical defence instead of 45 style?
Wed 3 Jun 2020 5:00 PM by Horus
I don't need any toys. I want my bow damage. I would suggest adjusting the formula such that REALLY high bow spec does significant damage....Like 67 composite and above. That way people who have earned higher realm rank can at least feel like they are doing good bow dmg and all the FOTM startup can work there way up to it if they stick it out.

Right now a RR4 vs RR9 can do pretty much the same archery dmg. There are no RAs you can get that really boost dmg much. Aug Dex has little or nor effect. Falcon eye was nerfed with the critical hit changes.

If multiple archers assisting on a target is perceived to be too powerful, enable code that you can't get hit by more than 1 arrow a second or something like that. I don't know how difficult it would be but we already have a mechanic that you can't get hit by more than 1 crit shot every 15 secs.
Wed 3 Jun 2020 6:31 PM by Cadebrennus
nineonezero wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 4:25 PM
what about physical defence instead of 45 style?

That would lead to even more whines. Personally I'd rather that they remove PD from the game entirely, so that at the very least Casters would fear Archers, Assassins, Tanks.... hell, anything swinging a weapon or shooting at them.
Wed 3 Jun 2020 11:50 PM by Killaloth
Haven't read a single reply to this thread but: PICNIC

Problem In Chair Not In Character

The problem is in the guy sitting on the chair.

Thidranki is the perfect example. Scouts are the weakest class in thid, yet they roam in groups of 3+ because it requires no effort to sit there and press 1 button.

Now give to the same person a lvl 50 sniper capable of dishing out enough damage to make it viable and you have the perfect recipe for ruining every possible kind of fight.

People just want easy rps. Let people "earn" rr11 by hitting doors or suiciding on keeps. This is "great" because they aren't ruining other people game.

But please do not allow a potentially toxic class like a sniper ruin other people game.

I'd love to see a melee scout as strong as a melee ranger in exchange of a nerfed bow damage.

Just don't encourage people to play like retarded because they will 100% do it.
Thu 4 Jun 2020 11:29 AM by watbrif
Killaloth wrote: ↑
Wed 3 Jun 2020 11:50 PM
Haven't read a single reply to this thread but: PICNIC

Problem In Chair Not In Character

The problem is in the guy sitting on the chair.

Thidranki is the perfect example. Scouts are the weakest class in thid, yet they roam in groups of 3+ because it requires no effort to sit there and press 1 button.

Now give to the same person a lvl 50 sniper capable of dishing out enough damage to make it viable and you have the perfect recipe for ruining every possible kind of fight.

People just want easy rps. Let people "earn" rr11 by hitting doors or suiciding on keeps. This is "great" because they aren't ruining other people game.

But please do not allow a potentially toxic class like a sniper ruin other people game.

I'd love to see a melee scout as strong as a melee ranger in exchange of a nerfed bow damage.

Just don't encourage people to play like ... because they will 100% do it.

So you're basically asking to punish players who play low-utility classes?
Thu 4 Jun 2020 3:01 PM by Killaloth
watbrif wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Jun 2020 11:29 AM
Killaloth wrote: ↑
Wed 3 Jun 2020 11:50 PM
Haven't read a single reply to this thread but: PICNIC

Problem In Chair Not In Character

The problem is in the guy sitting on the chair.

Thidranki is the perfect example. Scouts are the weakest class in thid, yet they roam in groups of 3+ because it requires no effort to sit there and press 1 button.

Now give to the same person a lvl 50 sniper capable of dishing out enough damage to make it viable and you have the perfect recipe for ruining every possible kind of fight.

People just want easy rps. Let people "earn" rr11 by hitting doors or suiciding on keeps. This is "great" because they aren't ruining other people game.

But please do not allow a potentially toxic class like a sniper ruin other people game.

I'd love to see a melee scout as strong as a melee ranger in exchange of a nerfed bow damage.

Just don't encourage people to play like ... because they will 100% do it.

So you're basically asking to punish players who play low-utility classes?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/teach/skillswise/reading-and-understanding/zbwnqp3
Sat 6 Jun 2020 4:48 PM by nineonezero
my creative 2cents...

I would love to see on Archers a new skill "Arrows" like Envenom on assassins where you can add magical DD on shoots, or maybe others caster can make a specific timed buffs (like dmg add) just for any type of arrows, with the dmg related to the skill line of caster (ld, cold, fire, spirit...)
With the same total point to spend to train, maybe we could see archers saving on shields and stealth to become a more groupable ranged class (full bow and arrows !)
Mon 8 Jun 2020 6:20 AM by imweasel
Well since it's no longer worth, at least the spec point expenditure, going above 35 in bow again, it would have been nice to see some additional or different skills become available at 40 or 45 spec in bow. Such a waste of development time and player testing...
Mon 8 Jun 2020 6:56 AM by Centenario
Not enough bow damage for a scout to be worth playing solo, except in PvE farming.
Wed 10 Jun 2020 2:01 PM by Horus
I guess my question now since there still seems to be some discussion...

Is Archery still under review or is the current state going to be permanent?
Wed 10 Jun 2020 3:35 PM by imweasel
Horus wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Jun 2020 2:01 PM
I guess my question now since there still seems to be some discussion...

Is Archery still under review or is the current state going to be permanent?

I'm guessing they are done with the archery review. Sad and such a waste of time for both players and the dev team...
Wed 10 Jun 2020 8:39 PM by Siouxsie
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 3:13 AM
imweasel wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 1:38 AM
I'm going out on a limb and say this is the worse reason ever.

You are now dictating behavior? That's so far from the nature of this game...it's like penalizing zergs because they are larger than other zergs...

Nerfs are pretty much always because of behavior which in turn is due to player perception. If an ability is completely OP but nobody uses it the likelihood of it getting nerfed is pretty low, only if something is actually used does it get evaluated at all, however, at the same time it's pretty much impossible for an ability to not be used if it is (perceived as) OP.

Buffs are a bit different, while the evaluation is still affected by usage, if something is basically never used it would be a good candidate for a buff as non usage is a pretty good indicator that something just sucks, however, as long as the class that has this ability has an otherwise usable kit there is no need to buff everything that isn't constantly used, good examples here are menta menta or summoning sm or ench ench or matter sorcs.

In this case it's pretty simple: the archer damage after the buff was perceived as OP (relics didn't help, pretty much nobody really speccing high enough in archery before the change and hence making the effective damage difference after the change even greater didn't help either), this lead to an explosion in the archer population. And I don't think really anyone would argue that a very high archer population would be something desirable.

Gruenesschaf, if you want to nerf something. Nerf necros and minstrels. They are, by far, the most overpowered classes on the server.
While you're at it, fix the double ablative cheat minstrels do (ablative proc + their chant.. they FREAKING STACK).. it's too overpowered.
Wed 10 Jun 2020 11:09 PM by borodino1812
Archery is not going to change much from now. They tried too, and the backlash was phenomenal. So what you have, is what you get. Please also take heed of the rest of the playerbase that wants you to exclusively solo, and god forbid you fire an arrow at anyone who is about to engage whatever hypothetical adversary they might mentally come up with...
Wed 10 Jun 2020 11:27 PM by Jingo NZ
imweasel wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Jun 2020 3:35 PM
Horus wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Jun 2020 2:01 PM
I guess my question now since there still seems to be some discussion...

Is Archery still under review or is the current state going to be permanent?

I'm guessing they are done with the archery review. Sad and such a waste of time for both players and the dev team...

It was a small net buff to archery dmg so not a waste of time. The devs also confirmed that buffing archery dmg is sensitive and can quickly lead to gameplay that is unhealthy to overall server.
Thu 11 Jun 2020 5:23 AM by imweasel
Jingo NZ wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Jun 2020 11:27 PM
imweasel wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Jun 2020 3:35 PM
Horus wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Jun 2020 2:01 PM
I guess my question now since there still seems to be some discussion...

Is Archery still under review or is the current state going to be permanent?

I'm guessing they are done with the archery review. Sad and such a waste of time for both players and the dev team...

It was a small net buff to archery dmg so not a waste of time. The devs also confirmed that buffing archery dmg is sensitive and can quickly lead to gameplay that is unhealthy to overall server.

And yet necros, bonedancers, minstrels, stealth "groups", etc are still very active and large on this server. They actually rolled back nerfs to some of this.

And it was a waste of time. The change amounted to little gain for the effort. Nothing significant was actually done with archery.

There is no reason to spec bow past 35ish. The cost for benefit doesn't exist.

A ranger will spend more spec points in melee skills than bow. Probably pathfinding as well.

A scout will spec more in shield than bow.

A hunter will spec more in everything except bow.

And this is for the archery classes in the entire game.

And somehow it's wasn't a waste of time...

I have higher expectations than that.
Thu 11 Jun 2020 7:46 PM by nineonezero
please make archers great again!!! changes take time to plateau ...
Thu 11 Jun 2020 10:19 PM by gotwqqd
nineonezero wrote: ↑
Thu 11 Jun 2020 7:46 PM
please make archers great again!!! changes take time to plateau ...

MAGA
Sat 13 Jun 2020 9:28 PM by jk123
Archery suffers a lot from being so easily interrupted.

That's where a change should be aimed at.
There would still be all the other tools to shut down archers, that small mans and 8mans have access to:
Mezzes, stuns and nearsights, bladeturns, shield/engage and so on (amnesia as another option, if needed).

Having seen especially whole alb stealth groups with minstrels and a lot of fotm scouts camping everywhere, wasn't also fun for solo stealthers.
Bringing back the damage as high as it was initially after the first buff, would encourage that again.
It was high enough to be disruptive even for bad 8mans, the experienced ones could still handle it ofc.
Now they are laughing at archers again, also the bad groups and small mans.

BUT if archers could actually use their bow in close combat more easily and dont get interrupted by taking merely a breeze of damage or a reproc,
it would be a buff not affecting overall gameplay really, however a real incentive to focus on the use of the Bow.

Proposal (you might come up with a better idea in then end):
Make it an active Ability granted at a high bow spec for melee-fights and a passive skill like sureshot or rapidfire for ranged dmg received at a medium bow spec:
1. Active ability "Trickshot"
It should come with reduced dmg, when being melee'd, but make it's dmg compare to the realitstic melee spec of archer classes
(no style-effects with bow would still favour melee-styles).
2. Passive Ability "Thrustfulness"
No reduced dmg and no interrupt, when being damaged from more than 250 locs or something like that, in that case it ought to be a passive skill.
Most of the time, the archer, when being targeted by casters will still die from the damage. But the reprocs or a small single blast, or shot from a npc-archer won't bother anymore.

Mythic Entertainment used to state, that they weren't able to change the interrupt code for archers all these years.
Maybe they also lied there.
Maybe you could.



p.s.:
I remember also, that when the initial toa-bonusses got available (25%), the bow could fire with high Moa from old RAs (up to 25%) that fast, that the interrupt was so short, that you could use bow in melee with high probability of success.
If the interrupt code can't be modified, it would be another option to grant high rr archers access to a higher form of MoA, that scales up to 25% or more bowspeed.
Available not before rr5 or even rr7/8 and in addition or on top of the existing MoA. Maybe even lower base bow dmg and make it's increase higher with lower drawtimes. This way dmg numbers remain relatively low, which upset most of the players, who don't comprehend the concept of dps.
Sat 13 Jun 2020 10:06 PM by Cadebrennus
jk123 wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Jun 2020 9:28 PM
Archery suffers a lot from being so easily interrupted.

That's where a change should be aimed at.
There would still be all the other tools to shut down archers, that small mans and 8mans have access to:
Mezzes, stuns and nearsights, bladeturns, shield/engage and so on (amnesia as another option, if needed).

Having seen especially whole alb stealth groups with minstrels and a lot of fotm scouts camping everywhere, wasn't also fun for solo stealthers.
Bringing back the damage as high as it was initially after the first buff, would encourage that again.
It was high enough to be disruptive even for bad 8mans, the experienced ones could still handle it ofc.
Now they are laughing at archers again, also the bad groups and small mans.

BUT if archers could actually use their bow in close combat more easily and dont get interrupted by taking merely a breeze of damage or a reproc,
it would be a buff not affecting overall gameplay really, however a real incentive to focus on the use of the Bow.

Proposal (you might come up with a better idea in then end):
Make it an active Ability granted at a high bow spec for melee-fights and a passive skill like sureshot or rapidfire for ranged dmg received at a medium bow spec:
1. Active ability "Trickshot"
It should come with reduced dmg, when being melee'd, but make it's dmg compare to the realitstic melee spec of archer classes
(no style-effects with bow would still favour melee-styles).
2. Passive Ability "Thrustfulness"
No reduced dmg and no interrupt, when being damaged from more than 250 locs or something like that, in that case it ought to be a passive skill.
Most of the time, the archer, when being targeted by casters will still die from the damage. But the reprocs or a small single blast, or shot from a npc-archer won't bother anymore.

Mythic Entertainment used to state, that they weren't able to change the interrupt code for archers all these years.
Maybe they also lied there.
Maybe you could.



p.s.:
I remember also, that when the initial toa-bonusses got available (25%), the bow could fire with high Moa from old RAs (up to 25%) that fast, that the interrupt was so short, that you could use bow in melee with high probability of success.
If the interrupt code can't be modified, it would be another option to grant high rr archers access to a higher form of MoA, that scales up to 25% or more bowspeed.
Available not before rr5 or even rr7/8 and in addition or on top of the existing MoA. Maybe even lower base bow dmg and make it's increase higher with lower drawtimes. This way dmg numbers remain relatively low, which upset most of the players, who don't comprehend the concept of dps.

Archers already have something uninterruptible at melee range: melee
Mon 15 Jun 2020 1:27 PM by Horus
For casters you have two RAs...

Mastery of Magery= Increases spell dmg
Mastery of the Art= Increases casting speed

I think a nice fix would be have something similar for Archery.

Right now all you have is Mastery of Archery which increases your fire speed. Another RA which increases bow damage similarly to how Master of Magery works for spells would be a nice fix.
Tue 16 Jun 2020 12:03 AM by ekmek
Its pointless to buff or nerf archery before nerfing rangers first. They are ridiculously more powerful than scouts and hunters.
Tue 16 Jun 2020 5:37 AM by Cadebrennus
ekmek wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jun 2020 12:03 AM
Its pointless to buff or nerf archery before nerfing rangers first. They are ridiculously more powerful than scouts and hunters.

How does an unstyled attack for around 50 damage per swing that swings approximately 60% of the time (dependent on spec) with no ability to control a fight from range make them ridiculously overpowered? Go ahead, we're all listening.
Tue 16 Jun 2020 7:18 AM by Noashakra
ekmek wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jun 2020 12:03 AM
Its pointless to buff or nerf archery before nerfing rangers first. They are ridiculously more powerful than scouts and hunters.

Try to make a ranger sniper spec that is as efficient as the hunter or scout in melee lol...
Tue 16 Jun 2020 1:54 PM by Horus
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jun 2020 5:37 AM
ekmek wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jun 2020 12:03 AM
Its pointless to buff or nerf archery before nerfing rangers first. They are ridiculously more powerful than scouts and hunters.

How does an unstyled attack for around 50 damage per swing that swings approximately 60% of the time (dependent on spec) with no ability to control a fight from range make them ridiculously overpowered? Go ahead, we're all listening.

Yea, with my 50 bow sniper spec I have like 16 in blades. I hit like a wet noodle in melee. Only thing I have is a side snare style that never lands in straight up melee. If an infilt has 20% life left and goes into melee with me I still lose, even with IP, legion heart, and purge. The only hope is to keep the fight going long enough for help to arrive.
Point being, if you go 50 bow on a ranger you are not going to be able to beat anything in melee and you can't escape or interrupt. With a scout you can go 50 bow, and still have slam and snare shield styles. With a hunter you have a pet to interrupt at least and help with melee dmg.
Anyone who knows anything knows scouts are currently the most powerful sniper spec. With self buffs the ranger can do a bit more bow damage but you sacrifice everything to do that...no CC styles, no ability to interrupt, no melee dmg, . It is the definition of feast or famine. And current state is more famine than feast. We are back to shooting someone, they notice something, shoot them again, they see they are taking damage and start to run away, shoot again an they self heal (pots legion, IP etc) shoot again, they keep running....next shot, out of range. This is with 69 bow and 383 dex, 5.5 speed bow. Penetrating arrow is nice..I guess, for noobs. I would much rather have the traditional penetrating arrow and have better over all damage. I'd rather have to quick shot down bladeturn and then hit em with a big crit that have penetrating arrow. It is a solution to a problem that didn't exist for any experienced archer....and now it just exists as a straw dog to prevent real fixes (well you got penetrating arrow, that is not a nerf). That is like giving someone dying of thirst a salty fish and saying "well you got something at least".
Tue 16 Jun 2020 9:31 PM by ekmek
Can't tell whether this is sarcasm or you are just clueless but right now there are 62 fucking rangers compared to 38 scouts. Gee Wonder why. Ranger has both better bow damage and melee damage. My scout swings for 80 damage compared to rangers 100-150 swing on me. Slam is not enough to kill anything that carries heal pots and you won't be kiting anything using stop because there are tools for each and every class to counter it. Its an unreliable escape mechanism misses 40% of the time vs assasins. Btw you have a side stun if you didn't know. But nvm rangers are terrible thats why its almost always in top3 in terms of numbers and outnumber the most powerful archer in game by 2:1.
Tue 16 Jun 2020 10:05 PM by Cadebrennus
ekmek wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jun 2020 9:31 PM
Can't tell whether this is sarcasm or you are just clueless but right now there are 62 fucking rangers compared to 38 scouts. Gee Wonder why. Ranger has both better bow damage and melee damage. My scout swings for 80 damage compared to rangers 100-150 swing on me. Slam is not enough to kill anything that carries heal pots and you won't be kiting anything using stop because there are tools for each and every class to counter it. Its an unreliable escape mechanism misses 40% of the time vs assasins. Btw you have a side stun if you didn't know. But nvm rangers are terrible thats why its almost always in top3 in terms of numbers and outnumber the most powerful archer in game by 2:1.

What is your weapon spec? Most Rangers are using 39 to 44 Blades. The CD is just there for the utility and the approximately +60% offhand swing chance, which hits for around 50 to 60 damage. Even being generous with the offhand swing percentage and offhand swing damage that's a net +36 damage over time that gets added to a Ranger's overall damage. Keep in mind they are not blocking with a speccable shield, have no dog to add damage to their 2h weapon, and have no ability to control or negate a ranged situation like a Hunter or Scout can.
Tue 16 Jun 2020 10:06 PM by Noashakra
150 is what I do as a melee ranger. What are you speaking about dude? You can't be melee spec and sniper spec...
Tue 16 Jun 2020 11:02 PM by guyeesha
Cade what is your obsession with Hunter 2hand damage and dog. Show me your numbers why it would be better than Rangers DW?
You do know dog is quite bugged, sometimes you can get 3sec to 10sec bite gaps and the damage is not that great vs anything but cloth.
Rangers ASR - dex/quick debuff is a hell of time to fight.
Wed 17 Jun 2020 12:30 AM by ekmek
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jun 2020 10:06 PM
150 is what I do as a melee ranger. What are you speaking about dude? You can't be melee spec and sniper spec...

Sniper spec rangers can melee my scouts for 150 when they swing offhand AND they do more damage to me with bow than I can do to cloth. But glad I have a root.
Wed 17 Jun 2020 3:05 AM by dbeattie71
ekmek wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 12:30 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jun 2020 10:06 PM
150 is what I do as a melee ranger. What are you speaking about dude? You can't be melee spec and sniper spec...

Sniper spec rangers can melee my scouts for 150 when they swing offhand AND they do more damage to me with bow than I can do to cloth. But glad I have a root.

My sniper ranger is 50 bow 48 pf, stealth and whatever lol. I don’t even need to carry a weapon. 150? Lol.
Wed 17 Jun 2020 4:42 AM by Cadebrennus
guyeesha wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jun 2020 11:02 PM
Cade what is your obsession with Hunter 2hand damage and dog. Show me your numbers why it would be better than Rangers DW?
You do know dog is quite bugged, sometimes you can get 3sec to 10sec bite gaps and the damage is not that great vs anything but cloth.
Rangers ASR - dex/quick debuff is a hell of time to fight.

The 2hand damage is approximately equal to the mainhand and offhand swinging at the same time, but it's free (no spec points required). I tested this during beta. The dog is even more damage on top of that. The downside though is that a block/parry/evade/miss can affect a Hunter more.

The ASR is pretty sweet, but again that has to be specced for, and when it comes to debuff weapons, everyone has access to them. Pierce and Sniper Rangers hit like a wet noodle with that dex/Qui debuff weapon since it's Slash.
Wed 17 Jun 2020 5:34 AM by jhaerik
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 6:47 AM
imweasel wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 6:18 AM
This game has gotten so cookie cutter on spec lines it makes me wonder why bother to allow players the choice? You are literally forced to spec a toon/class into a shoe horn spec. It's gotten so highly specialized as there is a pve spec and a pvp spec for classes.

The majority of mid melee classes spec in hammer, unless you are a hunter in which case you can take spear.

Every scout specs 45 in shield of all things because that's the only viable spec so they can have a chance in pvp. It's not archery. It's not stealth. It's shield that takes priority. On a 'bow' class.

Every single bard specs 43 nurture. Every. Single. One. Then the only other choice you make is 37 or 47 music.

Please point out a daoc patch level that wasn't 100% cookie cutter to the point that most classes have precisely 1 viable spec and some 2 or at most 3. There never was a point in the history of daoc where actual spec variety was a thing.

Basically any Catacombs/DR patch? [Melee Tics, Nuke Tics, Hybrid Tics][Spear/OW Valks, Shield Maidens, and later 22 Mend/31 Mend/35 Mend/41 Valks as well as several hybrid specs][SM Vamps, Dementia Vamps, And SM/VE Split vamps][Tons of Viable Lock Specs] [Shield Specing Solo Melee Wardens, Standard Group Warden, Battlemaster low weapon/shield Wardens on the ToA servers][Painworking necro for every tick dot rupting][Friar being able to spec for 18, 25, 34 or 50 staff][Thanes being Viable as 34-50 Sword, 50 Axe OR 50 Hammer][2h Pally, S/S AND hybrid were played and useful][Earth, Ice, and Fire Wizzy was viable (well as far as wizzy ever has been][Armsman being able to choose to spec for snapshot or not][Various Bainshee specs][Reaver viable at 29 or 42 shield]

I mean I could keep going. I stand by Cata and DR on classic servers (Gareth/Ector/Lamorak) being the the best the game ever was,
Wed 17 Jun 2020 6:16 AM by Noashakra
ekmek wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 12:30 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jun 2020 10:06 PM
150 is what I do as a melee ranger. What are you speaking about dude? You can't be melee spec and sniper spec...

Sniper spec rangers can melee my scouts for 150 when they swing offhand AND they do more damage to me with bow than I can do to cloth. But glad I have a root.

You are lying and you don't know what you speak about. Show us the spec with which you can be a sniper and do this kind of damage. I am waiting dude.
5L spec :
35 stealth
45 bow
40PF
33 blade/pierce
5 dual
you have around 42% chances to swing off hand and the damage with 33 blade is horrible because you don't have 52 comp blade/pierce and you have no debuff speed. No side stun no back snare.
You don't have 50 bow or the last buff d/q.

If you want 50 bow 48 PF, you need to drop stealth under 35 before the 5L and then, at the 6L you have 6 in blade.

Could you stop posting without knowing?
Wed 17 Jun 2020 11:51 AM by ekmek
Sure kiddo, scout is much better, thats why there are 50% more rangers even when alb has all the relics.
Wed 17 Jun 2020 8:21 PM by Noashakra
ekmek wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 11:51 AM
Sure kiddo, scout is much better, thats why there are 50% more rangers even when alb has all the relics.

I am still waiting for you spec dude, talk less and act more.
In the zerg, ranger sniper is a bit better, in a 1vs1 open field, it's worst.
Wed 17 Jun 2020 9:37 PM by ekmek
Not a single class can die to scout in 1v1 unless he is braindead or afk. Worst case scenario scout roots you and run away. Its hilarous you are talking about 1v1.
Wed 17 Jun 2020 9:43 PM by Cadebrennus
ekmek wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 12:30 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jun 2020 10:06 PM
150 is what I do as a melee ranger. What are you speaking about dude? You can't be melee spec and sniper spec...

Sniper spec rangers can melee my scouts for 150 when they swing offhand AND they do more damage to me with bow than I can do to cloth. But glad I have a root.

So you're saying that Rangers are the William Wallaces of DAOC?
.
.

.
.
.
Even William Wallace didn't buy the hype. I suggest you don't either.
Wed 17 Jun 2020 9:48 PM by Noashakra
ekmek wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 9:37 PM
Not a single class can die to scout in 1v1 unless he is braindead or afk. Worst case scenario scout roots you and run away. Its hilarous you are talking about 1v1.

Your ranger spec or stfu
Wed 17 Jun 2020 10:13 PM by ekmek
I don't know their spec I can see their bow and melee damage on my log. You can shut up now you failed to address any point I made, you are dismissed.
Wed 17 Jun 2020 10:37 PM by Cadebrennus
ekmek wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 10:13 PM
I don't know their spec I can see their bow and melee damage on my log. You can shut up now you failed to address any point I made, you are dismissed.

Put your armor on.
Wed 17 Jun 2020 10:47 PM by ekmek
There are 41 rangers 23 hunters and 23 scouts atm, there must be a lot of albs and mids without any armor. I mean I get it you enjoy your op class but at least try not to humiliate yourself man.
Wed 17 Jun 2020 10:55 PM by Cadebrennus
ekmek wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 10:47 PM
There are 41 rangers 23 hunters and 23 scouts atm, there must be a lot of albs and mids without any armor. I mean I get it you enjoy your op class but at least try not to humiliate yourself man.

I'm playing Alb lately so try again with the "witty" commentary.
Thu 18 Jun 2020 12:12 AM by ekmek
Witty commentary is all you will get since you failed to address any points made. Anyways I am not going to waste any more of my time with you.
Thu 18 Jun 2020 5:29 AM by Noashakra
Your ranger sniper spec that hits for 150 in melee or STFU.
Or at least show us a screenshot lol. You speak with a melee ranger 9L9 dude. So I know you are full of shit.
Thu 18 Jun 2020 1:23 PM by Horus
People love to throw out Rangers are OPed because "they must be, look how many play them".
There is flawed logic.
Some people like to solo.
There are few solo options on hib. You have two viable solo option, NS and Ranger. If you want to solo take your pick. Also you can't be a Celt NS on Phoenix so that pushes even more to Ranger. Other realms have at least 3 solo option, maybe 4 or 5 if you count necros, BDs, SMs.

And if you think scouts are so bad I can give the names of some people who have success with them. Maybe they will talk to you and educate you on how to play.
Thu 18 Jun 2020 1:57 PM by inoeth
Horus wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 1:23 PM
People love to throw out Rangers are OPed because "they must be, look how many play them".
There is flawed logic.
Some people like to solo.
There are few solo options on hib. You have two viable solo option, NS and Ranger. If you want to solo take your pick. Also you can't be a Celt NS on Phoenix so that pushes even more to Ranger. Other realms have at least 3 solo option, maybe 4 or 5 if you count necros, BDs, SMs.

And if you think scouts are so bad I can give the names of some people who have success with them. Maybe they will talk to you and educate you on how to play.

what about champions? and all the solo bards who add on everything.
and btw ns is the strongest of the three assassin classes even though there is no celt for them available so this "argument" is kind of weak
Thu 18 Jun 2020 2:04 PM by Nunki
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 4:42 AM
guyeesha wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Jun 2020 11:02 PM
Cade what is your obsession with Hunter 2hand damage and dog. Show me your numbers why it would be better than Rangers DW?
You do know dog is quite bugged, sometimes you can get 3sec to 10sec bite gaps and the damage is not that great vs anything but cloth.
Rangers ASR - dex/quick debuff is a hell of time to fight.

The 2hand damage is approximately equal to the mainhand and offhand swinging at the same time, but it's free (no spec points required). I tested this during beta. The dog is even more damage on top of that. The downside though is that a block/parry/evade/miss can affect a Hunter more.

The ASR is pretty sweet, but again that has to be specced for, and when it comes to debuff weapons, everyone has access to them. Pierce and Sniper Rangers hit like a wet noodle with that dex/Qui debuff weapon since it's Slash.
What people tend to ignore is:
- Spear styles cost more endu, get hit by an endu drain weapon (together with d/q-debuff weapon, lol) and you start using endu pots really fast. You have to counter strafe while sprinting to avoid that EZ sidestyle stun (even after Purge).
- I would be interested to see some actual logs comparing Celtic Dual vs Speer and dog. Yes you have to use more spec points for CD, but this is also the case if you want to have a dog doing 100 dmg, while a Ranger could easily drop Pathfinding and compensate it with pots. I would be quite sure that CD is superior while investing the same spec points. I am quite sure that the WS of Hunter is lower too. Again, no numbers available, just an assumption.
- Spear is more vulnerable for ASR + high defence rates (as you stated). D/Q-debuff + ASR and you are nothing but dead meat to punch on.
- Availability of stat-debuff weapons for Hunters is non-existing (afaik). You fight vs D/Q-debuff + second proc (endu drain, ld, other debuff).


Not saying that Rangers are OP, but in terms of the Hunter vs Ranger situation, they are for sure in an advantageous situation due to multiple reasons.
- Availability of stat-debuff weapons and the fact that he can only use 1 proc at a time.
- Overall Endu useage.
- Vulnerability regarding ASR, D/Q-debuff and devensive rates.
- Positional styles. I know you stated several times that landing a backstyle is equally easy than landing a sidestyle, but that is barely the case (only vs opponents who have no clue how to counter strafe). I know that you tell people that they have the choice to go for 2h instead of Spear, but 2h dmg is lower and Str based, which is therefore not an option.

Hunters are superior in terms of surviveability (compared to Ranger), but to be honest, you want to end a fight asap otherwise you get zerged down or someone is leeching. Hunters itself are absolutely playable overall, pet is a great tool while fighting anything you need to rupt, but if we observe a purely melee Ranger vs Hunter situation the Ranger has a clear advantage.
Thu 18 Jun 2020 2:47 PM by Noashakra
Your spear is S/D and you have access to two types of weapons (slash and pierce) when ranger has to spec blade which is 100% str, so no, you have a better ws and better damage type on your weapons.

If you drop PF, you lose a lot of stats and your add dmg too, which is a huge part of your DPS.

For the DPS pure melee, I think the ranger is better, but you have to drop bow to the minimum. As soon as you want 35 bow, it's similar to the hunter (but hunter has more utility), and when it's about pure snipe spec, the hunter is better in melee than the ranger.
Thu 18 Jun 2020 5:25 PM by Nunki
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 2:47 PM
Your spear is S/D and you have access to two types of weapons (slash and pierce) when ranger has to spec blade which is 100% str, so no, you have a better ws and better damage type on your weapons.

If you drop PF, you lose a lot of stats and your add dmg too, which is a huge part of your DPS.

For the DPS pure melee, I think the ranger is better, but you have to drop bow to the minimum. As soon as you want 35 bow, it's similar to the hunter (but hunter has more utility), and when it's about pure snipe spec, the hunter is better in melee than the ranger.
Agreed.

I would still sacrifice the ability to switch to neutral damage for some of the other advantages I mentioned.

But as I said, no flame. 1v1 observations are senseless in many situations, there are quite many classes I wouldn't attack as a ranger which I can easily farm with my Hunter (mostly due to pet and the option to kite).

What I would dream of is:
- Weapon options with D/Q-debuff proc (sounds fair tbh)
- Anytime ASR combo
- After evade or sidestyle stun

If you consider that Hunter was literally unplayable and not really fun for most of the time on live (classic) and the last 3 classic freeshards I played, Phoenix Devs obviously did a good job.
Thu 18 Jun 2020 10:58 PM by ekmek
Horus wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 1:23 PM
People love to throw out Rangers are OPed because "they must be, look how many play them".
There is flawed logic.
Some people like to solo.
There are few solo options on hib. You have two viable solo option, NS and Ranger. If you want to solo take your pick. Also you can't be a Celt NS on Phoenix so that pushes even more to Ranger. Other realms have at least 3 solo option, maybe 4 or 5 if you count necros, BDs, SMs.

And if you think scouts are so bad I can give the names of some people who have success with them. Maybe they will talk to you and educate you on how to play.

Your post would be less dumb if there weren't 4-5 man ranger zergs everywhere. Overwhelming majority of rangers are zerg sufers and stealth zergers. Currently there are more rangers than skalds by a 40% margin rofl. Also there are literally 3 rangers for each nightshade, which is a much better solo class. pEOpLe JuSt LiKe to SolO.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 4:14 AM by jhaerik
ekmek wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 10:58 PM
Horus wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 1:23 PM
People love to throw out Rangers are OPed because "they must be, look how many play them".
There is flawed logic.
Some people like to solo.
There are few solo options on hib. You have two viable solo option, NS and Ranger. If you want to solo take your pick. Also you can't be a Celt NS on Phoenix so that pushes even more to Ranger. Other realms have at least 3 solo option, maybe 4 or 5 if you count necros, BDs, SMs.

And if you think scouts are so bad I can give the names of some people who have success with them. Maybe they will talk to you and educate you on how to play.

Your post would be less dumb if there weren't 4-5 man ranger zergs everywhere. Overwhelming majority of rangers are zerg sufers and stealth zergers. Currently there are more rangers than skalds by a 40% margin rofl. Also there are literally 3 rangers for each nightshade, which is a much better solo class. pEOpLe JuSt LiKe to SolO.

40% more Rangers than Skalds....
100% more Rangers than Hunters.
Low NS Pop.

So basically NS+Rangers = SB+Hunter+Skald.

So what exactly is your argument?
Fri 19 Jun 2020 5:22 AM by Noashakra
ekmek wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 10:58 PM
Horus wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 1:23 PM
People love to throw out Rangers are OPed because "they must be, look how many play them".
There is flawed logic.
Some people like to solo.
There are few solo options on hib. You have two viable solo option, NS and Ranger. If you want to solo take your pick. Also you can't be a Celt NS on Phoenix so that pushes even more to Ranger. Other realms have at least 3 solo option, maybe 4 or 5 if you count necros, BDs, SMs.

And if you think scouts are so bad I can give the names of some people who have success with them. Maybe they will talk to you and educate you on how to play.

Your post would be less dumb if there weren't 4-5 man ranger zergs everywhere. Overwhelming majority of rangers are zerg sufers and stealth zergers. Currently there are more rangers than skalds by a 40% margin rofl. Also there are literally 3 rangers for each nightshade, which is a much better solo class. pEOpLe JuSt LiKe to SolO.

Your ranger spec OR STFU
You showed you have no idea about what you speak about so unless you show us which spec can do 150dmg inc cac, you are disqualified to speak about rangers.

You are the dumb one, lying through your teeth about the ranger damages.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 9:37 AM by ekmek
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 4:14 AM
ekmek wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 10:58 PM
Horus wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 1:23 PM
People love to throw out Rangers are OPed because "they must be, look how many play them".
There is flawed logic.
Some people like to solo.
There are few solo options on hib. You have two viable solo option, NS and Ranger. If you want to solo take your pick. Also you can't be a Celt NS on Phoenix so that pushes even more to Ranger. Other realms have at least 3 solo option, maybe 4 or 5 if you count necros, BDs, SMs.

And if you think scouts are so bad I can give the names of some people who have success with them. Maybe they will talk to you and educate you on how to play.

Your post would be less dumb if there weren't 4-5 man ranger zergs everywhere. Overwhelming majority of rangers are zerg sufers and stealth zergers. Currently there are more rangers than skalds by a 40% margin rofl. Also there are literally 3 rangers for each nightshade, which is a much better solo class. pEOpLe JuSt LiKe to SolO.

40% more Rangers than Skalds....
100% more Rangers than Hunters.
Low NS Pop.

So basically NS+Rangers = SB+Hunter+Skald.

So what exactly is your argument?
That its pretty obvious ranger popularity has absolutely nothing to do with people wanting to solo because rangers are not playing solo and actual better solo class is nowhere as popular as rangers.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 9:40 AM by Blitze
I am absolutely flabbergasted when I come across a solo ranger.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 9:57 AM by jwalker
this Thread turned into a "this archer is stronger than this one and buhhh"

While in the other news thread important changes are done to

1) heavily nerf Ranger AND Hunters (especially the hybrid specs with max. 40 buff lines)
-> it's because you loose a tone of stat points once mastery of arcana doesnt affect combined pots anymore (in my situation I loose a total of 26 stat points, if I'd be a hunter I'd loose 32).

2) all assassins will get a (imo undeserved) buff
-> by buffing PA damage and dot stacking. The latter will make dual shadows on infiltrator really OP.

3) yeah sure scouts may maybe feel less inferior to ranger/hunter but now all three classes went further down the food chain. The most funny part is that from all the ranger specs PURE melee or PURE sniper CAN actually just spec for higher buffs, while the hybrid specs, the ones that actually try to play an archer as a bow+melee receive the harshest nerf.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 10:33 AM by Cadebrennus
ekmek wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 10:58 PM
Horus wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 1:23 PM
People love to throw out Rangers are OPed because "they must be, look how many play them".
There is flawed logic.
Some people like to solo.
There are few solo options on hib. You have two viable solo option, NS and Ranger. If you want to solo take your pick. Also you can't be a Celt NS on Phoenix so that pushes even more to Ranger. Other realms have at least 3 solo option, maybe 4 or 5 if you count necros, BDs, SMs.

And if you think scouts are so bad I can give the names of some people who have success with them. Maybe they will talk to you and educate you on how to play.

Your post would be less dumb if there weren't 4-5 man ranger zergs everywhere. Overwhelming majority of rangers are zerg sufers and stealth zergers. Currently there are more rangers than skalds by a 40% margin rofl. Also there are literally 3 rangers for each nightshade, which is a much better solo class. pEOpLe JuSt LiKe to SolO.

Correlation does not equal causation
Fri 19 Jun 2020 10:39 AM by Noashakra
ekmek wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 9:37 AM
jhaerik wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 4:14 AM
ekmek wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 10:58 PM
Your post would be less dumb if there weren't 4-5 man ranger zergs everywhere. Overwhelming majority of rangers are zerg sufers and stealth zergers. Currently there are more rangers than skalds by a 40% margin rofl. Also there are literally 3 rangers for each nightshade, which is a much better solo class. pEOpLe JuSt LiKe to SolO.

40% more Rangers than Skalds....
100% more Rangers than Hunters.
Low NS Pop.

So basically NS+Rangers = SB+Hunter+Skald.

So what exactly is your argument?
That its pretty obvious ranger popularity has absolutely nothing to do with people wanting to solo because rangers are not playing solo and actual better solo class is nowhere as popular as rangers.



You know, maybe alb is playing less scouts because they have better gtae class in the zerg... When hib has only the eld void. But hey you would have to think harder than "MUH 60 rangers!"
Because most of those rangers are spamming volley in the zerg, they don't play in small man.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 10:50 AM by ekmek
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 10:33 AM
ekmek wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 10:58 PM
Horus wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 1:23 PM
People love to throw out Rangers are OPed because "they must be, look how many play them".
There is flawed logic.
Some people like to solo.
There are few solo options on hib. You have two viable solo option, NS and Ranger. If you want to solo take your pick. Also you can't be a Celt NS on Phoenix so that pushes even more to Ranger. Other realms have at least 3 solo option, maybe 4 or 5 if you count necros, BDs, SMs.

And if you think scouts are so bad I can give the names of some people who have success with them. Maybe they will talk to you and educate you on how to play.

Your post would be less dumb if there weren't 4-5 man ranger zergs everywhere. Overwhelming majority of rangers are zerg sufers and stealth zergers. Currently there are more rangers than skalds by a 40% margin rofl. Also there are literally 3 rangers for each nightshade, which is a much better solo class. pEOpLe JuSt LiKe to SolO.

Correlation does not equal causation

LOL do you even know what that means? Or are you implying how powerful a class is has NOTHING to do with its popularity? Holy shit the mental gymnastics of ranger players.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 10:57 AM by Noashakra
ekmek wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 10:50 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 10:33 AM
ekmek wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 10:58 PM
Your post would be less dumb if there weren't 4-5 man ranger zergs everywhere. Overwhelming majority of rangers are zerg sufers and stealth zergers. Currently there are more rangers than skalds by a 40% margin rofl. Also there are literally 3 rangers for each nightshade, which is a much better solo class. pEOpLe JuSt LiKe to SolO.

Correlation does not equal causation

LOL do you even know what that means? Or are you implying how powerful a class is has NOTHING to do with its popularity? Holy shit the mental gymnastics of ranger players.

You can stop posting, you showed you ignorance already.
POST THE SNIPER SPEC THAT HITS AT 150 IN MELEE OR GO AWAY.

I am not getting tired of exposing how much of a tool you are.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 12:38 PM by Cadebrennus
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 5:22 AM
ekmek wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 10:58 PM
Horus wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 1:23 PM
People love to throw out Rangers are OPed because "they must be, look how many play them".
There is flawed logic.
Some people like to solo.
There are few solo options on hib. You have two viable solo option, NS and Ranger. If you want to solo take your pick. Also you can't be a Celt NS on Phoenix so that pushes even more to Ranger. Other realms have at least 3 solo option, maybe 4 or 5 if you count necros, BDs, SMs.

And if you think scouts are so bad I can give the names of some people who have success with them. Maybe they will talk to you and educate you on how to play.

Your post would be less dumb if there weren't 4-5 man ranger zergs everywhere. Overwhelming majority of rangers are zerg sufers and stealth zergers. Currently there are more rangers than skalds by a 40% margin rofl. Also there are literally 3 rangers for each nightshade, which is a much better solo class. pEOpLe JuSt LiKe to SolO.

Your ranger spec OR STFU
You showed you have no idea about what you speak about so unless you show us which spec can do 150dmg inc cac, you are disqualified to speak about rangers.

You are the dumb one, lying through your teeth about the ranger damages.

His spec is 50 Whining and 1 Knowledge, the rest in Parry.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 12:42 PM by Cadebrennus
ekmek wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 10:50 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 10:33 AM
ekmek wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 10:58 PM
Your post would be less dumb if there weren't 4-5 man ranger zergs everywhere. Overwhelming majority of rangers are zerg sufers and stealth zergers. Currently there are more rangers than skalds by a 40% margin rofl. Also there are literally 3 rangers for each nightshade, which is a much better solo class. pEOpLe JuSt LiKe to SolO.

Correlation does not equal causation

LOL do you even know what that means? Or are you implying how powerful a class is has NOTHING to do with its popularity? Holy shit the mental gymnastics of ranger players.

Again, I'm playing Alb right now.

FYI (I suggest you read very very slowly. You in particular will probably need to move your finger under the words and make the sounds with your mouth while reading.)

"In statistics, the phrase "correlation does not imply causation" refers to the inability to legitimately deduce a cause-and-effect relationship between two variables solely on the basis of an observed association or correlation between them.[1][2] The idea that "correlation implies causation" is an example of a questionable-cause logical fallacy, in which two events occurring together are taken to have established a cause-and-effect relationship. This fallacy is also known by the Latin phrase cum hoc ergo propter hoc ("with this, therefore because of this". "

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
Fri 19 Jun 2020 2:14 PM by ekmek
I know what it is I have a MSc in finance. My point was only correlation I have drawn was power level of a class and of its popularity. You either don't know what it means (which is what I am guessing because you copy pasted it from wiki) or you are implying people don't tend to play more powerful classes, which is equally laughable. So are you ignorant or just dumb? Please explain where did I use a spurious correlation, or stop humiliating yourself with your cringy insults.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 3:10 PM by Cadebrennus
ekmek wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 2:14 PM
I know what it is I have a MSc in finance. My point was only correlation I have drawn was power level of a class and of its popularity. You either don't know what it means (which is what I am guessing because you copy pasted it from wiki) or you are implying people don't tend to play more powerful classes, which is equally laughable. So are you ignorant or just dumb? Please explain where did I use a spurious correlation, or stop humiliating yourself with your cringy insults.

Wiki was the place with the simplest language I could find for you without an explanation drawn in crayon. Congratulations on your degree in Finance. It means you (hopefully) understand economics etc. I could list my experience too but it has nothing to do with this conversation, just as your degree in finance has even less to do with this conversation than my personal experience and education.

People tend to play classes that are fun as well as classes that are powerful. The Ranger is good but not powerful. Is it fun? Absolutely.

Please don't make another stupid post or I'll have to run to the store to buy some crayons to make a chart you'll understand.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 3:35 PM by ekmek
You said there is no causal relationship between power level and popularity since you called my correlation spurious, you literally said there is no causation between power level of a class and its poplarity (altough you don't realize it because you used a term without understanding it, this is how retarded you are.) there being other factors doesn't mean they don't have a meaningful correlation. Go wiki multiple linear regression and educate yourself. Also rangers weren't half popular before the buff, so your people play it because its fun arguement is conclusively refuted. I am not even pointing out there are more rangers than scouts and hunters combined most of the time, which are semi-mirror classes. Literally everything you have said is refuted, I don't see any reason to bother with you until you publicly apologize for being this wrong.

Oh and a large portion of finance is about correlation of risks and returns of different assets, which means I have a higher education on the topic you are linking from wiki (and arrogantly trying to educate me on). I am not surprised you didn't understand what a degree in finance has anything to do with it tbh.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 4:07 PM by Horus
Horus wrote: ↑
Wed 10 Jun 2020 2:01 PM
I guess my question now since there still seems to be some discussion...

Is Archery still under review or is the current state going to be permanent?

I again request dev respond to this post from 9 days ago. This thread has degenerated. If the current changes are final, please close and lock the thread. If more changes are possible, please update what is under review so we can get back on topic. Thanks.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 4:38 PM by Noashakra
lol man I have a degree in business and marketing and economics and a A level in science.
It tells nothing about how much of a tool you can be.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 6:57 PM by gotwqqd
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 12:38 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 5:22 AM
ekmek wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 10:58 PM
Your post would be less dumb if there weren't 4-5 man ranger zergs everywhere. Overwhelming majority of rangers are zerg sufers and stealth zergers. Currently there are more rangers than skalds by a 40% margin rofl. Also there are literally 3 rangers for each nightshade, which is a much better solo class. pEOpLe JuSt LiKe to SolO.

Your ranger spec OR STFU
You showed you have no idea about what you speak about so unless you show us which spec can do 150dmg inc cac, you are disqualified to speak about rangers.

You are the dumb one, lying through your teeth about the ranger damages.

His spec is 50 Whining and 1 Knowledge, the rest in Parry.
Parry=deflection
Fri 19 Jun 2020 7:17 PM by Horus
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 10:57 AM
ekmek wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 10:50 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 10:33 AM
Correlation does not equal causation

LOL do you even know what that means? Or are you implying how powerful a class is has NOTHING to do with its popularity? Holy shit the mental gymnastics of ranger players.

You can stop posting, you showed you ignorance already.
POST THE SNIPER SPEC THAT HITS AT 150 IN MELEE OR GO AWAY.

I am not getting tired of exposing how much of a tool you are.
BTW Since he won't post..I will
A sniper spec melee screen shot.
I have full sniper spec. Melee is 14(+19) blades sacrificing stealth to get that high.
This target was 30% health when I engaged in melee. I had IP, Legion, and Health pot all up and still lost handily...don't come here with that sniper spec melee crap.

Fri 19 Jun 2020 7:34 PM by ekmek
Where is your damage add and why are you meleeing a tank? I tried the explain the other imbecil I don't know the spec they are using and it doesn't matter at all, I also don't know the wavelenght of red light but I know what red is. My log doesn't show specs, it shows damage. I said rangers (that are 3-4 rank lower than me) can do higher crit shot on me than I can do to rangers or casters and can swing 150 per round including offhand and damage adds. Nice try attacking a fucking shield tank without any buffs. I am convinced ranger players are pure idiots at this point. Btw rangers got rightfully nerfed today, I am sure they will get nerfed further so keep crying to defend your op class. Oh and learn to strafe, its melee 101.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 7:39 PM by inoeth
ekmek wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 7:34 PM
Where is your damage add and why are you meleeing a tank? I tried the explain the other imbecil I don't know the spec they are using and it doesn't matter at all, I also don't know the wavelenght of red light but I know what red is. My log doesn't show specs, it shows damage. I said rangers (that are 3-4 rank lower than me) can do higher crit shot on me than I can do to rangers or casters and can swing 150 per round including offhand and damage adds. Nice try attacking a fucking shield tank without any buffs. I am convinced ranger players are pure idiots at this point. Btw rangers got rightfully nerfed today, I am sure they will get nerfed further so keep crying to defend your op class. Oh and learn to strafe, its melee 101.

just post your spec dude lul
Fri 19 Jun 2020 7:46 PM by Noashakra
O.M.G.

The add dmg red is 20/22dmg per swing mh, the yellow is 15. it's like 10/12 off hand.
The off hand swings at base 25% of the time, so someone sniper spec with 0-5 dual with bonus will swing 35/40% of the time. So saying He swings at 150 per round is a blatant lie because it would mean he hits every round with his left hand.
Please stop, it's embarassing for you.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 8:00 PM by Horus
ekmek wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 7:34 PM
Where is your damage add and why are you meleeing a tank? I tried the explain the other imbecil I don't know the spec they are using and it doesn't matter at all, I also don't know the wavelenght of red light but I know what red is. My log doesn't show specs, it shows damage. I said rangers (that are 3-4 rank lower than me) can do higher crit shot on me than I can do to rangers or casters and can swing 150 per round including offhand and damage adds. Nice try attacking a fucking shield tank without any buffs. I am convinced ranger players are pure idiots at this point. Btw rangers got rightfully nerfed today, I am sure they will get nerfed further so keep crying to defend your op class. Oh and learn to strafe, its melee 101.

Geez man, you made a dubious claim about sniper spec melee dmg. I cleaned up a screenshot to illustrate typical melee dmg my sniper spec puts out. I didn't have the spell text selected but it is around +19 per hit for the red dmg add. So I strafed once...that is a moot point. So it was chain armor I was going against...again..a moot point. The screen cap speaks for itself in terms of melee dmg. Even against other armor, no where near 150.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 8:07 PM by ekmek
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 7:46 PM
O.M.G.

The add dmg red is 20/22dmg per swing mh, the yellow is 15. it's like 10/12 off hand.
The off hand swings at base 25% of the time, so someone sniper spec with 0-5 dual with bonus will swing 35/40% of the time. So saying He swings at 150 per round is a blatant lie because it would mean he hits every round with his left hand.
Please stop, it's embarassing for you.

I said WITH offhand, its conditional. It doesn't matter how often it swings. Reading comprehension 101. I am still waiting for you to demonstrate where I did use a spurious correlation btw.

Its hilarous to watch terrible players patheticly trying to defend their op bullshit. But nvm, ramgers sucks thats why they outnumber every other stealth class by at least 1:1.5 rofl I mean it can't be a coincidence that literally every single ranger player in this discussion has 0 reading comprehension and critical thinking skills.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 8:16 PM by Noashakra
can swing 150 per round including offhand and damage adds.

you can stop
you don't know what conditional is.

All those ranger you speak about play in the BG and do volley all day long. SO OP!!!!!!!!!
Fri 19 Jun 2020 8:18 PM by The Skies Asunder
I really can't fathom how someone thinks a Ranger could be OP (Solo). I play Ranger because I enjoy the style of switching between ranged, and melee depending on the situation, not because the class is super strong. They are easily interrupted at range, and struggle against anything with even reasonable defense in melee, unless you are full melee spec, but at that point the entire conversation is different. As far as spec goes, I am playing hybrid at the moment:

35+15 Recurve Bow
35+15 Stealth
39+15 Blades
19+15 Celtic Dual
40 Pathfinding

As you'd imagine I only crit shot for around 500 on most targets, less on tanks. When in melee I generally hit main hand for somewhere between 120-170 depending on target, and about 70 offhand, with 15 DA or so for each. So when I don't get an offhand swing, even at 39+15 blades, I still don't make it to 150 damage sometimes. No way sniper specs are getting there on a regular basis.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 8:21 PM by Noashakra
He lives in a world where you can have 50 bow + 48PF and 39 blade + 44 dual...
70 off hand is with a slow off hand too (2.9).
Fri 19 Jun 2020 8:27 PM by The Skies Asunder
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 8:21 PM
He lives in a world where you can have 50 bow + 48PF and 39 blade + 44 dual...
70 off hand is with a slow off hand too (2.9).

Sounds like a nice world for Rangers to be in

Yeah, I am using a 3.1 offhand most of the time actually. Hits for over 80 on squishy targets, but 70 is average for most targets.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 8:28 PM by ekmek
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 8:16 PM
can swing 150 per round including offhand and damage adds.

you can stop
you don't know what conditional is.

All those ranger you speak about play in the BG and do volley all day long. SO OP!!!!!!!!!

Including offhand assumes offhand hits, because by definition if it doesn't swing its not included. you can not possibly be this stupid, sorry. Including damage add also assumes you have damage add buff, in case you missed it.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 10:22 PM by Cadebrennus
ekmek wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 3:35 PM
You said there is no causal relationship between power level and popularity since you called my correlation spurious, you literally said there is no causation between power level of a class and its poplarity (altough you don't realize it because you used a term without understanding it, this is how retarded you are.) there being other factors doesn't mean they don't have a meaningful correlation. Go wiki multiple linear regression and educate yourself. Also rangers weren't half popular before the buff, so your people play it because its fun arguement is conclusively refuted. I am not even pointing out there are more rangers than scouts and hunters combined most of the time, which are semi-mirror classes. Literally everything you have said is refuted, I don't see any reason to bother with you until you publicly apologize for being this wrong.

Oh and a large portion of finance is about correlation of risks and returns of different assets, which means I have a higher education on the topic you are linking from wiki (and arrogantly trying to educate me on). I am not surprised you didn't understand what a degree in finance has anything to do with it tbh.

Rangers were popular before the so-called buff. I studied and applied real world applications of cause and effect in Afghanistan. It's called "fourth order effects" and it's taught at JFKSWCS(A) at Ft. Bragg, North Carolina. Go ahead. YOU look it up.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 10:25 PM by Cadebrennus
ekmek wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 7:34 PM
Where is your damage add and why are you meleeing a tank? I tried the explain the other imbecil I don't know the spec they are using and it doesn't matter at all, I also don't know the wavelenght of red light but I know what red is. My log doesn't show specs, it shows damage. I said rangers (that are 3-4 rank lower than me) can do higher crit shot on me than I can do to rangers or casters and can swing 150 per round including offhand and damage adds. Nice try attacking a fucking shield tank without any buffs. I am convinced ranger players are pure idiots at this point. Btw rangers got rightfully nerfed today, I am sure they will get nerfed further so keep crying to defend your op class. Oh and learn to strafe, its melee 101.

And there's your bias. Excellent work. I bet your poker face is on point too.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 10:39 PM by Cadebrennus
ekmek wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 8:28 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 8:16 PM
can swing 150 per round including offhand and damage adds.

you can stop
you don't know what conditional is.

All those ranger you speak about play in the BG and do volley all day long. SO OP!!!!!!!!!

Including offhand assumes offhand hits, because by definition if it doesn't swing its not included. you can not possibly be this stupid, sorry. Including damage add also assumes you have damage add buff, in case you missed it.

For a guy who is throwing around his economic credentials you sure seem to be terrible at math. What company do you work for?

Keep in mind that CD/DW offhand swing chance determines your overall damage over time. To truly see what a dual wielder gets for X amount of spec points then you need to multiply the chance to swing by the average offhand damage. The most common CD spec is 18 CD, which is approximately a 54% offhand swing chance. Multiply that by the average offhand damage numbers (70+ 15DA) stated here and you have the actual return from speccing 18 CD which is almost 46 damage per swing when averaged out over time. Add that to a hit that to a styled mainhand hit that connects (usually the anytime ASR chain which has a terrible GR) and you have a more realistic number for how much damage can a dual wielder put out. Now, to get a solid mainhand hit, you need a lot of melee, more than 39 Blades. To do that you can't be Sniper Spec, or even Hybrid IMO.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 10:55 PM by The Skies Asunder
Yeah, I would say 39 blades, 18 CD is the minimum to even be remotely effective at melee. Even then though, you likely want to get some ranged damage onto a target before you try to melee. Sure I have beat some people in melee who I probably shouldn't with this spec, but it is very rare, and I generally have to use IP 3 to do it. There just isn't a way to be actually good at both things.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 10:58 PM by ekmek
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 10:22 PM
ekmek wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 3:35 PM
You said there is no causal relationship between power level and popularity since you called my correlation spurious, you literally said there is no causation between power level of a class and its poplarity (altough you don't realize it because you used a term without understanding it, this is how retarded you are.) there being other factors doesn't mean they don't have a meaningful correlation. Go wiki multiple linear regression and educate yourself. Also rangers weren't half popular before the buff, so your people play it because its fun arguement is conclusively refuted. I am not even pointing out there are more rangers than scouts and hunters combined most of the time, which are semi-mirror classes. Literally everything you have said is refuted, I don't see any reason to bother with you until you publicly apologize for being this wrong.

Oh and a large portion of finance is about correlation of risks and returns of different assets, which means I have a higher education on the topic you are linking from wiki (and arrogantly trying to educate me on). I am not surprised you didn't understand what a degree in finance has anything to do with it tbh.

Rangers were popular before the so-called buff. I studied and applied real world applications of cause and effect in Afghanistan. It's called "fourth order effects" and it's taught at JFKSWCS(A) at Ft. Bragg, North Carolina. Go ahead. YOU look it up.

Rangers popularity is not the variable, relative popularity of scouts and hunters is, you mixed 2 different arguements together because you didn't understand either of them. And rangers were never in the top 5. Ever.
Fri 19 Jun 2020 11:06 PM by ekmek
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 10:39 PM
ekmek wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 8:28 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 8:16 PM
you can stop
you don't know what conditional is.

All those ranger you speak about play in the BG and do volley all day long. SO OP!!!!!!!!!

Including offhand assumes offhand hits, because by definition if it doesn't swing its not included. you can not possibly be this stupid, sorry. Including damage add also assumes you have damage add buff, in case you missed it.

For a guy who is throwing around his economic credentials you sure seem to be terrible at math. What company do you work for?

Keep in mind that CD/DW offhand swing chance determines your overall damage over time. To truly see what a dual wielder gets for X amount of spec points then you need to multiply the chance to swing by the average offhand damage. The most common CD spec is 18 CD, which is approximately a 54% offhand swing chance. Multiply that by the average offhand damage numbers (70+ 15DA) stated here and you have the actual return from speccing 18 CD which is almost 46 damage per swing when averaged out over time. Add that to a hit that to a styled mainhand hit that connects (usually the anytime ASR chain which has a terrible GR) and you have a more realistic number for how much damage can a dual wielder put out. Now, to get a solid mainhand hit, you need a lot of melee, more than 39 Blades. To do that you can't be Sniper Spec, or even Hybrid IMO.
I literally never said anything about economics, you are confusing economics and finance which are 2 completely different areas. The thing you are too stupid to understand is your offhand swing chance is completely irrelevant because said number assumes you did swing it. It does not matter whether your offhand swing chance is 10^-95 or 1, because the scenario assumes you DID swing it. It says I N C L U D I N G offhand. I don't know how clearer I can be, this is like explaining stochastic calculus to a dead rabbit at this point. We are not calculating expected value of dps. Don't think there is anything else to say about this, if you don't agree try reading slower because you are objectively wrong and do not understand a very simple sentence.
Sat 20 Jun 2020 7:02 AM by Cadebrennus
ekmek wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 11:06 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 10:39 PM
ekmek wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 8:28 PM
Including offhand assumes offhand hits, because by definition if it doesn't swing its not included. you can not possibly be this stupid, sorry. Including damage add also assumes you have damage add buff, in case you missed it.

For a guy who is throwing around his economic credentials you sure seem to be terrible at math. What company do you work for?

Keep in mind that CD/DW offhand swing chance determines your overall damage over time. To truly see what a dual wielder gets for X amount of spec points then you need to multiply the chance to swing by the average offhand damage. The most common CD spec is 18 CD, which is approximately a 54% offhand swing chance. Multiply that by the average offhand damage numbers (70+ 15DA) stated here and you have the actual return from speccing 18 CD which is almost 46 damage per swing when averaged out over time. Add that to a hit that to a styled mainhand hit that connects (usually the anytime ASR chain which has a terrible GR) and you have a more realistic number for how much damage can a dual wielder put out. Now, to get a solid mainhand hit, you need a lot of melee, more than 39 Blades. To do that you can't be Sniper Spec, or even Hybrid IMO.
I literally never said anything about economics, you are confusing economics and finance which are 2 completely different areas. The thing you are too stupid to understand is your offhand swing chance is completely irrelevant because said number assumes you did swing it. It does not matter whether your offhand swing chance is 10^-95 or 1, because the scenario assumes you DID swing it. It says I N C L U D I N G offhand. I don't know how clearer I can be, this is like explaining stochastic calculus to a dead rabbit at this point. We are not calculating expected value of dps. Don't think there is anything else to say about this, if you don't agree try reading slower because you are objectively wrong and do not understand a very simple sentence.

So you're posting this damage number with the assumption of a 100% offhand swing. Excellent work dude. I hope your work also doesn't include statistics.
Mon 22 Jun 2020 12:03 AM by ekmek
Which one of you idiots were asking for a screenshot there you go.
https://imgur.com/LW172PX
This is a rr fucking 4 ranger doing literally 3x my melee damage before crit and doing 10% more damage with bow than I do. Not to mention I am hitting leather while he is hitting on reinforced armor. I think its definitively proved that you morons were borderline lying to defend your broken idiotic class. Now you owe everyone an apology both for lying and being literally stupid (talking the the guy who still didn't understand why offhand swing chance doesn't matter).
Mon 22 Jun 2020 4:08 AM by Astaa
Wrong screen shot? Seems fairly low damage.
Mon 22 Jun 2020 6:46 AM by Noashakra
Why are you hiding the name? At least we can ask for his spec.
And yeah he hit you once with his left hand. Do you block 100% of the time with your shield?
Mon 22 Jun 2020 2:31 PM by ekmek
Cut the crap and apologize for lying and being stupid.
Mon 22 Jun 2020 9:07 PM by Noashakra
ekmek wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Jun 2020 2:31 PM
Cut the crap and apologize for lying and being stupid.

still waiting for your ranger spec
Mon 22 Jun 2020 9:47 PM by ekmek
Nice try evading. I never said anything about spec, I quoted damages and proved it with a screenshot. Now apologise for being retarded and stay silent.
Mon 22 Jun 2020 10:13 PM by Cadebrennus
ekmek wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Jun 2020 9:47 PM
Nice try evading. I never said anything about spec, I quoted damages and proved it with a screenshot. Now apologise for being retarded and stay silent.

Name of the Ranger in the screenshot?
Mon 22 Jun 2020 10:16 PM by Cadebrennus
Ekmek being evasive:
.
.

.
.
Mon 22 Jun 2020 10:30 PM by ekmek
Not men enough to apologise when you are demonstraby wrong and stupid I see. Thats sad. His name doesn't matter but I am sure you will patheticly keep asking for it because you have been proven wrong but you are still trying to win the arguement lol. You are dismissed and will be ignored from now on.
Tue 23 Jun 2020 5:30 PM by Noashakra
THE SPEC OR STFU lol
why do you not give the name of the ranger?

You are pathetic because it costs nothing to anybody and we can verify your claims of him being sniper spec or not.

I am the one asking to verify your claims. It's already a shift of the burden of proof, when you are the one that should give us the name and spec of the person on your screenshot to validate your BS.
"The burden of proof is always on the person making an assertion or proposition. Shifting the burden of proof, a special case of argumentum ad ignorantium, is the fallacy of putting the burden of proof on the person who denies or questions the assertion being made. The source of the fallacy is the assumption that something is true unless proven otherwise."
Tue 23 Jun 2020 7:26 PM by inoeth
vision of liar ahead
Wed 24 Jun 2020 4:42 PM by nineonezero
Stay on topic please don’t ruin with your personal ... about ranger mdps.... was about archery damage ....and without any constructive proposal nothing will change ...
Wed 24 Jun 2020 9:24 PM by Horus
nineonezero wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Jun 2020 4:42 PM
Stay on topic please don’t ruin with your personal ... about ranger mdps.... was about archery damage ....and without any constructive proposal nothing will change ...

Yea we got suckered in to feeding the troll. Even with obvious facts with a screen shot from a Sniper spec ranger he still trolls. So best to no longer feed.

I still like my suggestion. An RA line for archers similar to mastery of magery is for casters. Or roll back the last two dmg adjustments down and implement code where a person can't get hit by more than 1 arrow a second.
Thu 25 Jun 2020 6:08 AM by Noashakra
spec, name, or stfu
Thu 25 Jun 2020 6:30 AM by Astaa
50 bow 48 pf, 34 stealth 4! blades 2! CD (sniper spec) my warden does more melee damage than my ranger (might be a lie, but it's close!) Suits me to shoot zerging/exp ganking trash from walls atm, while working, don't really bother with open field but I doubt a sniper lasts long with all the adding and ganking. A sniper spec ranger will not ever hit for 150 per swing combined.

A hybrid ranger might just about hit for 150 per swing combined now and again, if off hand swings and isn't blocked, parried, evaded,. if the planets are aligned etc.

That's the point, a sniper sacrifices all melee (to the point that you might as well sit down) and a melee ranger sacrifices all bow, usually with just 12 free levels.
Thu 25 Jun 2020 10:38 AM by Cadebrennus
Astaa wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Jun 2020 6:30 AM
50 bow 48 pf, 34 stealth 4! blades 2! CD (sniper spec) my warden does more melee damage than my ranger (might be a lie, but it's close!) Suits me to shoot zerging/exp ganking trash from walls atm, while working, don't really bother with open field but I doubt a sniper lasts long with all the adding and ganking. A sniper spec ranger will not ever hit for 150 per swing combined.

A hybrid ranger might just about hit for 150 per swing combined now and again, if off hand swings and isn't blocked, parried, evaded,. if the planets are aligned etc.

That's the point, a sniper sacrifices all melee (to the point that you might as well sit down) and a melee ranger sacrifices all bow, usually with just 12 free levels.

My Merc does as much Shortbow damage as a 12 Archery specced Ranger. The trade-offs are no Stealth, 600 less range, and "losing out on" weak self buffs with a "Melee Spec" Ranger for the Merc's Chain Armor, Climb Walls, Dirty Tricks, speccable Shield, and far better Melee. People shouldn't even bother trying to mention the PF DA because Alb gets an offhand Thrust DA proc weapon that's usable by every class.
Thu 2 Jul 2020 9:34 AM by Centenario
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Jun 2020 10:38 AM
People shouldn't even bother trying to mention the PF DA because Alb gets an offhand Thrust DA proc weapon that's usable by every class.
Only if you are talking about melee.
I believe we are talking here about archery.
To have a DA bonus of around 10DPS means that you get maybe what 20 lvls of archery for free considering 20 lvl give you somewhat this much damage?
So if you go 35 archery with the DA buff you are effectively 55 archery?

I don't know the numbers here, I think 1 point of archery increase my damage by a very little amount, which is further reduced by resist and absord etc...
Thu 2 Jul 2020 12:52 PM by Cadebrennus
Centenario wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Jul 2020 9:34 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Jun 2020 10:38 AM
People shouldn't even bother trying to mention the PF DA because Alb gets an offhand Thrust DA proc weapon that's usable by every class.
Only if you are talking about melee.
I believe we are talking here about archery.
To have a DA bonus of around 10DPS means that you get maybe what 20 lvls of archery for free considering 20 lvl give you somewhat this much damage?
So if you go 35 archery with the DA buff you are effectively 55 archery?

I don't know the numbers here, I think 1 point of archery increase my damage by a very little amount, which is further reduced by resist and absord etc...

Basically I'm saying that PF is fairly useless. Even in Archery with my Ranger I find that it's more useful to /use a DA buff right before firing. It's better than 46 PF and doesn't use any skill points. It even works with a shortbow extremely well on a non-Archer class.
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