RvR Tasks: Feedback and Suggestions

Ok, so I understand that the premise is twofold:

A) Incentivize lower RR and suboptimized players to participate in RvR through clear goals and rewards.
B) Establish a way for these players to catch up to an RvR-ready Realm Rank (around RR4 - 5) so that from then on they can compete. Higher RRs therefore get less RPs from these tasks.

I think this premise close what it should be, however, I see some flaws in the current design which I believe are vital. In the second part I write down my own ideas.

1. The initiative is being completely erased from RvR. With the current implementation, the zerg has gained an extra dimension of mindlessness. Due to the fact that the tasks are determined for you, every new task is the same thing on a new location.

There is are almost zero tactical decision left to be made to the players and there is no strategical planning in attacking enemy keeps anymore. Keeps are now simply tools for RP gain. All the rest has become irrelevant. People are leaving keepdoors open because there is a new task that tells them the next keep is suddenly very important for no reason whatsoever.

Also, because the RP benefits are so strong, people's attention is geared almost solely towards it. People go AFK in keeps because they know the task will be completed at some point or another and they will get their precious RPs.
The whole thing is quite frankly brainless. Go there, attack x or defend y, wait around for 30 minutes, get RPs, rinse repeat. The entire system gets old very fast. No initiative, no tactical decisionmaking, no dynamic reward. Also, the only keep in the game that matters is the one that the task evolves around...

At the same time, the value of RPs is being tampered with.

This is not RvR. This is RP farming.

2. Due to its massive RP reward, the current implementation offers an alternative to regular RvR playstyles (and perhaps some feather farming). However, it does not just offer an alternative, the rewards are so great that no other RvR playstyle is viable anymore.

There is no point in trying to roam as a solo, smallman or even full group if you get a steady flow of RPs which beats anything but the very best possible roaming runs. As a result, there are no more (lower rank) groups roaming and the entire RvR dimension now revolves around keeptask zerging where the realm with the largest numbers wins.

Yes, you could still try to go against the grain and stick to your preferred playstyle, but your will simply become frustrated by the fact that while you are trying to enjoy yourself, you know that you are missing out on the vast amount of character progression you could get by giving up your preferred playstyle. You're constantly facing the desire to progress and its struggle against the desire for your own playstyle. This creates unhealthy frustration, especially over longer periods of time.

3. The issue of non-50 character progression through RvR is not addressed.

I think the concept of tasks can be a great way to address this. However, as it stands now, there simply is no reward built in for people who prefer to participate in RvR instead of grinding mobs or even killtasks.

Ideally, these tasks would prove beneficial to those who prefer to RvR AND to those who like to mix it up. I will write more on this below.

5. Killing keep guards should not grant RPs in any way whatsoever.

I believe killing keep guards should grant their own type of benefits. RPs for any sort of PvE is a direction which I think we should absolutely and resolutely avoid. It undermines the entire spirit of RvR.

4. The 10 realm points per minute should not be in the game.

People are suiciding to be in range of this bonus only to go AFK to do something else. It's provoking unwanted behaviour and the plus side of this implementation does not weigh up to the benefit at all.

My suggestions for RvR incentivization, character progression and overall RvR gameplay experience:

1. Make the rewards even more dynamicly geared towards the player's stage in the game. The primary goal is not for players to gain RPs, but to gain relevant character progression without interfering with the normal RvR playstyles.

These rewards do not necessarily have to come from tasks; some can be applied in general;

General:
- Keeplords drop 1 lvl 51 RoG drop per participating player. Functions like a one-time-drop. Everyone gets one which is potentially relevant to his character, no loot hassle.
- Guards and Keeplords drop a great amount of XP and a moderate amount of gold.
- Implement a killtask NPC in keeps which allows you to hand in killtask items from the zone in which the keep is located. If the keep is in enemy territory, you gain 25% extra XP for your hand-ins since your loot dropped in the enemy frontiers and you had to take the keep in order to hand it in.
- A newly conquered (or defended!) keep grants a 25% XP bonus in that zone for the coming 36 hours. This bonus is removed if the keep is taken during that time.
- A keep defense or siege not only creates an RP pool, but also creates an XP pool which functions in the same way.
- XP gain for killing enemy players should be increased further than it currently is (doubled would be about right).

Tasks:
- Non-50 players are granted a great amount of XP, a good amount of gold and a moderate amount of RPs (also based on RR).
- Level 50 players are granted a moderate to low amount of RPs based on RealmRank, a good amount of gold and a small amount of feathers and bountypoints.
- Level 50 players above RR5 gain zero RPs, a good amount of gold and a good amount of bounty points and feathers.

Moderate amount of RPs could be around 1500, low amount around 500.
Good amount of gold could be around 250g.
Great amount of XP could be around equal to 5 bubs at level 45 (obviously only talking about the task rewards here).

Rewards should be based also on the difficulty of the task. The ones just described could be an appropriate minimum. (see below)

2. Allow porting to Dun Crimthain, Caer Erasleigh and Nottmoor Faste (respectively only possible by the home realms).

Porting to these keeps is not possible if:

- The keep is under attack.
- 2 other keeps in your realm are not in your realm's possesion.

3. Make the tasks more general so that it leaves more room for interpretation, initiative and tactical decision making. Inevitably, these tasks will also be harder to complete and rewards should vary on the level of difficulty and time invested.

Examples:
- Gain control over Darkness Falls
(The realm which holds DF must keep control. 2 Succesful keep defenses will complete this task for them.)

- Purge Darkness Falls from invaders
(15 minutes of no player from your realm attacked by enemy players = task complete. All players inside DF get the reward. If task is not completed within x minutes, enemy realm(s) which had DF 1 hour before the task starts get rewards if they are located in DF or Frontier zones) (An additional bonus here could be creative, such as increased droprate for 12 hours once this task is completed.)

- Conquer your primary frontier zone
(Emain, Hadrian's, Odin's, only applies to your home realm zone) (Capture your keep and block enemy player passage at the milegates for 10 minutes. Allies killed in the primary zone due to players coming from the other homeland zones reset the timer. Enemy realm wins when they can take any keep in the frontier in which the task is active.)

- Disable Porting to Keep for an enemy realm.
(This task cannot be completed simply by putting it in an 'under attack' state. Only through actually taking the keep or taking 2 other keeps so that porting becomes disabled will this task be completed.)

- Conquer a power/strength relic / Defend the relic.
(These should be rare. This type of task could be unlocked if your realm has possession of all 7 home keeps and 5 keeps in the enemy frontiers (regardless of which realms). Obviously if a relic keep's (which holds relics) doors are breached regardless of what was going on before, this task becomes active.)

Darkness Falls warfare or a long Relic siege can take up several hours. Obviously these tasks should grant increased rewards once completed.

Also, partial participation should grant partial rewards. For instance; logging out during the task could grant 1/3rd of the reward when the character logs in again after the task is completed. This is crucial to make casual players feel at ease with the fact that they can not sit the task out to its completion.

Lastly, I want to stress that these are just my ideas on how to make the entire RvR participation work in a way that is not interfering with the normal flow of RvR. I believe this is THE key aspect in which this server can distinguish itself and claim the top spot for Classic DAoC. What's important to me is that it just works. Not just for a week or a month, but for the coming years. Obviously this will take time and finetuning, but strong fundamentals are essential.

The general attitude and concern of the staff regarding this topic is what stems me hopeful for a bright future. Thank you for that!

Thu 30 Aug 2018 11:59 AM by Zintair

Get rid of the keep system entirely it's horrid in any iteration. Give rewards for attacking or defending ANY keep and scale it based on attackers defenders how difficult etc.

Scale down the RP rewards for kill tasks in rvr but a ton as well. Keep the scale where higher rr less RP.

Maybe implement something like the uthgard keep bonuses except there is no damage bonuses just realm point bonuses. If you own x amount of keeps or something you get a higher amount of realm points per kills.

Or if you are keeping the realm task for keep make it like three keeps in the zone. Defend 3 or successfully attack two. Spread it out a bit but keep it in the same realm zone so it doesn't favor highest population.

Allow the defending realm to take back a keep of they lost it during the task but the task is still going because no one realm took two keeps.

So if mid took one and alb took one and Hib defended one then the task would be incomplete and either Hib would have to take two back or alb or mid would have to take one more.

Thu 30 Aug 2018 12:17 PM by relvinian

First let us copy and paste the rvr system announcement so we can all read it.

Hello Phoenix,

Today we are introducing the second part of our open rvr incentives: RvR tasks. Please find all relevant information below. Remember that keeps are still very much work in progress and that there will be more changes/incentives to come.

Command:
-Tasks will be given automatically and can be viewed with the /task command.

Perpetual tasks:
- Once you or your realm completed a task, you'll be rewarded and a new task will follow automatically.

Realm wide tasks:
- Take keep/ defend keep: The owner realm of a keep is automatically defender. The two other realms will be assigned to the attacker role. Roles will be changed when either the keep is defended by at least 12 players or if an attacker takes over the keep. Player within a radius of 4000 units will be rewarded with a specific amount of realm points per minute. All players which are involved in attacking or defending the keep will be rewarded.

Player tasks:
- Kill enemy players in Hibernia (the realm will change in the future but for now Hibernia is set up as default). It will start with 'Kill 5 players', increases by five each time the tasks has been completed and will rise up to a maximum of 50 enemy players.

- Solo kill players (can be done in any realm and battlegrounds). It will start with 'Kill 3 players', increases by three each time the tasks has been completed and will rise up to a maximum of 30 solo players.

- Kill guards in any ream (can be done in any realm and battlegrounds). It will start with 'Kill 25 guards', increases by 15 each time the task has been completed and will rise up to a maximum of 100 guards.

We will still determine the exact rewards. It is possible that we'll change the amount of realm points, gold and bounty points you'll earn over time. Rewards will not change once you completed a quest, so just the requirement to earn the reward will raise. We would like to ask you to give us feedback in our boards.

Have fun playing and thank you all for helping us test!

Best

Awly

Thu 30 Aug 2018 12:31 PM by relvinian

The original purpose for the rvr system was to control df and the relics. Which would in turn effect xp and pvp.

You now have a score system.
There are already rps gained from taking keeps and feathers from keep lords.

If I understand correctly there are now realm wide tasks, group tasks, and solo tasks.

Guards are worth rps?

The system sends out a message which players respond to rather than picking and choosing?

I'm no expert since I haven't tried this yet but player behavior is pretty easy to predict, they will do what works and ignore what doesn't.

In my opinion:

1. Make sure that players have the choice of which keep to take.
2. Never give rps for guards, although guard kill tasks are ok.
3. What would be wrong with just putting in regular kill tasks such as are in the game already, scouting, player, guard kill tasks?
4. Go ahead and polish up the automated realm thing and do that ONCE IN AWHILE as an event. But reduce the rewards so that you don't screw horribly someone who missed it. The idea should be a fun bonus not a desperate requirement to attend an event.

IMO, keep rewards to rvr as rps and bounties, with some sleight benefit, ie feathers.
PVE should be pve, rvr should be rvr, don't make one obsolete.

Although gold and xp for player kills could be increased.

Also, if rvr becomes pve then Hibernia will really be op, due to shrooms.

I went to defend a keep task at lvl 40 got the 10 rps per minute thing I did get. Would say high rr doesn't care much about that but low levels might.

One more question, why can't we jump off the walls? I tried to figure out how to jump off the walls.

I went to one defend task at 42 and gained about 5k rps all I did was shoot a couple people and die. Went from 1l1 to 1l9

Also got 329 feathers for standing afk and dying.

Thu 30 Aug 2018 2:21 PM by

gruenesschaf

Currently your existence is counted as participation in the keep tasks, over the next days this will change to be actual participation (damage, healing, cc) etc, there will then be a cut off point above which you get the 100% reward and everyone below will scale towards it which would result in afk people getting nothing.

The new zone task kind of already is counting participation but for now the only participation here is an actual kill, once the correctly calculating participation system is in the zone task will use it as well.

The zone / keep task might in the near future either alternate or they'll have some cooldown after completion.

Thu 30 Aug 2018 2:32 PM by relvinian

I think its cool you all are trying all these things, but the end product has to be fun and balanced.

Thu 30 Aug 2018 3:49 PM by Neehi

I'm concerned how this will affect soloers in the area vs fg's running around killing everything on inc. I spend 15 minutes just getting to the fight (or longer if I stealth), the get there and have to find a target that I can kill before I am killed; I often, as a SB, get one chance before the keep changes... if I am uncovered and die before doing any damage, have I wasted my time running all the way out there? Because it's going to take me 10-15 minutes to get back there.

Thu 30 Aug 2018 4:09 PM by Amroth

RvR tasks are great. Solo/small mans need an incentive. All these tasks are fantastic so thank you for implementing them.

As for the amount of RPs, that obviously needs to be lowered. If you played Uthgard, you know the keep RPs for keeps was very very small. Yet it got people coming out to fight. It wasn't the main focus of RPs, but was a catalyst. That's all these RvR tasks need to be in terms of RPs. Just the carrot on the stick to get people in the RvR zone.

In my opinion, the majority of a characters RPs should come from kills whereas a smaller amount should come from RvR tasks. Maybe 75% kill rps and 25% task rps. Enough to make you want to do them, but not so much to where you just afk in zergs or blatantly keep trade.

Thu 30 Aug 2018 4:29 PM by Gohanssj

Neehi wrote: ↑
Thu 30 Aug 2018 3:49 PM
I'm concerned how this will affect soloers in the area vs fg's running around killing everything on inc. I spend 15 minutes just getting to the fight (or longer if I stealth), the get there and have to find a target that I can kill before I am killed; I often, as a SB, get one chance before the keep changes... if I am uncovered and die before doing any damage, have I wasted my time running all the way out there? Because it's going to take me 10-15 minutes to get back there.

This hasn't been my experience at all, with keeps tasks and the kill in zone I've made nearly 200k in 2 days on a solo rr3 (now well into 4 obviously) inf. U
Don't waste your time going to the keep unless it's close, concentrate on killing the people heading to the keep, find choke points etc and 10/10 you'll find other stealthers doing the same. Had so many fights in last few days with other sneaks. The rpts are inflated but we know this and as beta gets close to the end everyone will be high RR. That's not indicative of how it will be on live. The mechanics will be the same but not the numbers, so time to start practising your positioning

Thu 30 Aug 2018 4:48 PM by Padatoo

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 30 Aug 2018 2:21 PM
Currently your existence is counted as participation in the keep tasks, over the next days this will change to be actual participation (damage, healing, cc) etc, there will then be a cut off point above which you get the 100% reward and everyone below will scale towards it which would result in afk people getting nothing.

The new zone task kind of already is counting participation but for now the only participation here is an actual kill, once the correctly calculating participation system is in the zone task will use it as well.

The zone / keep task might in the near future either alternate or they'll have some cooldown after completion.

Actual participation sounds fair,but what about people who got into the area and got rolled before doing anything - they get 0 reward?

Thu 30 Aug 2018 4:55 PM by Gohanssj

Padatoo wrote: ↑
Thu 30 Aug 2018 4:48 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 30 Aug 2018 2:21 PM
Currently your existence is counted as participation in the keep tasks, over the next days this will change to be actual participation (damage, healing, cc) etc, there will then be a cut off point above which you get the 100% reward and everyone below will scale towards it which would result in afk people getting nothing.

The new zone task kind of already is counting participation but for now the only participation here is an actual kill, once the correctly calculating participation system is in the zone task will use it as well.

The zone / keep task might in the near future either alternate or they'll have some cooldown after completion.

Actual participation sounds fair,but what about people who got into the area and got rolled before doing anything - they get 0 reward?

Ofc, the only difference between that and suiciding in is intention, and a script can't judge intention. I mean if you run out in emain and die before you get a kill you get nothing, same thing really

Thu 30 Aug 2018 5:18 PM by Padatoo

Yeah, then why not make a "Losers Comfort" basic reward (25%/20%/15% ?) that is given for making the effort to arrive ?Afkers would still afk ofcourse,but it wouldnt make it pointless to go there for all the noob-casual/solo/foreveralone and bad pugs

Fri 31 Aug 2018 7:44 AM by Falken

I like the incentives to get people out and RvRing, but please don't make the keep tasks so rewarding that is the only thing people want to do. As of this evening I found 0 solos running around outside of stealthers and saw large groups 6-8 people fighting in and around the keep areas only. This is great that it focuses fights in a certain frontier, but sitting afk at a keep or just going only for the keep on the task really takes away from the strategy and risk/reward factor.

Fri 31 Aug 2018 12:59 PM by relvinian

I don't like the tasks which are attack this keep or defend this keep. Needs to be removed or only used for events.

Bad for solos. Except for stealthers and speed classes.

Example:-- defend renaris.

OK, I'm lvl 40 I get speed and invig pot and sprint to ren.

Die to hibs, fg.

Release and get speed and run back.

Die to mids, fg.

I log out. I go do something else.

I think bonuses for keep defense is good. I think telling every single player in the game which keep is being attacked or defended in real time, not only is dumb it is not realistic. Ever hear of the fog of war?

I think group tasks and solo tasks, as already in daoc are better. Also put flame on war map perhaps after a short delay. And/or have guilds get message when their keep under attack.

Fri 31 Aug 2018 1:04 PM by Kaziera

Bad for solos usually means it is promoting social behaviour. How can that possibly be a bad thing?

Fri 31 Aug 2018 1:35 PM by relvinian

Guess you were never the fat girl at the prom sitting there in your dress at the portal keep hoping for a group.

Flames start. Everything is fine. Flames engulf you. Everything is fine. Destroyed into ash. Everything is fine.

Everything is fine everywhere. The typical hardcore or guild player in daoc who can play the game underwater on the sun.

Meanwhile, here in casual or pug land.

Note: Uthgard has a hundred or so rr 10 players and 50k created accounts that no longer log in. If you ask the rr 10s the game is great.

Being a solo or a vis now in the big frontier, you are pretty much toast if a group finds you. When you tell the groups where the solos are going odds of being found go way up.

So solos will camp inside keeps and wait until that keeps number comes up.

Groups will dominate even more. And the whole internet is yahoo portal. Only approved classes get groups. Only ur friends get groups. Only ur good friends get groups, on alternate Wednesdays. Guild set groups destroy destroy destroy and everyone else is food.

BTW this post is hyperbole and satire but contains 71.387% truth.

Fri 31 Aug 2018 10:12 PM by Mrdoctore

The main point for me : There were Zerg battles in Uthgard everynight at EU timer (8pm to 10pm) without big rewards. I didnt like it, but well many people liked it so its not a problem for me. What is the goal there in Phoenix ? Having more zergs ? the entire day ?

Here on Phoenix, we have a big send in the middle of the screen, telling you exactly where to zerg the entire day. And actually with the rp bonuses from everything you do, you are kinda forced to follow that or you will just run into the wind / make some 8vs99.

Ok i understand it feels great to have a lot of people fighting in the same zone in a beta with 500 players. But on a live server, it sounds like hell for me.

Mon 10 Sep 2018 8:16 AM by birrone001

As for RvR tasks:

I like only the personal RvR tasks, the realm ones are just rps farm, now the only zones of fight are Emain, Odin and Hadrian, all the rest are desert almost all the time.
Also, it is not very nice that everyone get rps just doing nothing but for being in that zone where the event is at the moment. It makes players running like crazy from a zone to another, and as I said someone even doing nothing but being at the right place at the right moment.

Please, don't make this wonderful game too easy, it is good to work hard for something you believe in!

Mon 10 Sep 2018 8:50 AM by Druth

You do not get rps for just being in the zone.
You get rps for participating there, either by killing or dying.

It does create a situation of greens throwing themselves to die against who ever wants to kill them.

But it also creates a system where a complete noob pug group can go fight RR6+ guild group, be totally destroyed and still get rps.
And this is the best system ever implemented for casuals in DaoC history.

Fri 14 Sep 2018 1:26 PM by birrone001

Druth wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Sep 2018 8:50 AM
You do not get rps for just being in the zone.
You get rps for participating there, either by killing or dying.

It does create a situation of greens throwing themselves to die against who ever wants to kill them.

But it also creates a system where a complete noob pug group can go fight RR6+ guild group, be totally destroyed and still get rps.
And this is the best system ever implemented for casuals in DaoC history.

That's almost what I meant, RR run will be too fast, working not hard on deserving rps as it should be. It sounds to me like rps farming, at least till 4L or even 5L.
5L + will be harder anyway, but I personally don't like too easy things and it is good to work out on your skills to be a good player.
Nothing to say on Personal RvR tasks, they are a good idea, but the Realm ones are just a mass of players moving to a zone to another like crazy.

Fri 14 Sep 2018 7:17 PM by Druth

birrone001 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Sep 2018 1:26 PM
That's almost what I meant, RR run will be too fast, working not hard on deserving rps as it should be. It sounds to me like rps farming, at least till 4L or even 5L.
5L + will be harder anyway, but I personally don't like too easy things and it is good to work out on your skills to be a good player.
Nothing to say on Personal RvR tasks, they are a good idea, but the Realm ones are just a mass of players moving to a zone to another like crazy.

I think we agree...?

I think people should be able to get RR4-5 in normal frontiers without having some BG to carry them there, and without having to suffer to harsly from high RR groups.

But I also want it to end after that, and let the rps drop dramaticly and people having to earn rps the normal way, killing enemies.

Sat 15 Sep 2018 2:37 PM by hyshash

birrone001 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Sep 2018 1:26 PM
That's almost what I meant, RR run will be too fast, working not hard on deserving rps as it should be. It sounds to me like rps farming, at least till 4L or even 5L.
5L + will be harder anyway, but I personally don't like too easy things and it is good to work out on your skills to be a good player.
Nothing to say on Personal RvR tasks, they are a good idea, but the Realm ones are just a mass of players moving to a zone to another like crazy.

what exactly is bad about having zergs the whole day in certain zones with great rewards till rr 4-5?
The rvr prior to the tasks for any casual and most solo/smallmans was nearly dead ... now you can invite what ever is in reach and get some rps because everyone does that ... everyone whos casualy playing this should realy be happy to have these tasks because they promote the casual playstyle
actually the ones who should be crying are hardcore 8vs8 guilds because the action they like is nearly dead since everyone follows the task and you dont realy find 8vs8 without adds (its still possible but not at primetime or when you tell other grps that youre in zones wich are normaly dead or if youre lucky to fine a grp without a few adds in the current mainzone)

btw i think the arguement about having to earn rps the hard way is good to learn your class is totaly off ... if you cant play your class after all these years you will have a realy hard time earning rps today the "hard way" and "learn" even less because you get stomped anyway

Mon 17 Sep 2018 7:56 PM by jelzinga_EU

I would like to propose a "streamline" to the tasks:

* After selecting a random realm and keep (for example, take / defend Hurbury) the following domination and "frontier fight" is in Albion. Then a new keep is selected randomly (e.g. Mid Bledmeer) and then domination is in Jamt and frontier-fight is in Midgard and then Hib etc etc.

What this does is that all action is kinda centered around a realm. Right now what I see is keep ---> suicide --> new domination --> suicide --> Emain (screws Hibs over) --> suicide etc rinse repeat.

The suiciding is really showing that people want the RP's for the task and tasks are successful in getting people into the frontier, but the suiciding really needs to go. At least this way there is an incentive to stay in the zone and keep the fight there for a bit longer.

Mon 17 Sep 2018 9:02 PM by Armsmancer

Where is the victim exactly in someone running up to AMG and dying to mid stealth zerg to get credit 10 minutes later when the "Fight in Emain" task ends? It isn't the person who died, it isn't the stealthers, they certainly aren't complaining. Just some people who aren't there are complaining about it.

If there was no incentive for that solo/small man to go, they'd still be crafting or farming in pve. So choose, do you want them to stay there, or get out into the frontiers?

I'm willing to bet if the incentive of a few RPs for a task every 10-30 mins is removed, the next posts will be about "why won't people come out to the frontiers anymore?!"

The Rps are crap later on after rr4 and 5 who cares about 1k rps for a task when it is the SOLO KILLS that are the HUGE amount of RP gains for classes like minstrels/stealthers who can easily solo, yet when all these people here are talking about it, they see the 1.5k-3k RP from the task, and the 10k-25k RP for the kills the stealthers / speeders are getting by taking out folks, they are highlighting the 1.5k - 3k rp gained after 10-30 mins...if you are going to point to RP gain being too fast you do not know how to math. The totals some RR9 has right now for his huge amount of RPs is not keep tasks, its from kills. Do math.

Tue 18 Sep 2018 7:13 AM by Druth

If I were to "adjust" the "suicide and afk issue", which I'm not sure is a big issue...
Then it would be that the rp gain degrades over time after 5 mins of not being RvR active.

So example, if you go and die and afk, and the task takes to long, you get nothing.

But again, keep in mind that we are seeing a lot of action, and despite the action maybe not being what people want (DaoC players have split of 95% state of "disapprovement" and 5% "contend"

this is wastly better than what you see on the other major freeshard.

Tue 18 Sep 2018 6:45 PM by defiasbandit

My suggestion is to combine the RvR tasks into one task that spans multiple zones in a single realm. Have it alternate between each realm. So if the task is in Hibernia then 3 or 4 of the zones in Hibernia will be available to zerg keeps in, have capture points, roam etc.. There can be a giant pool and every objective or kill will contribute to it on behalf of your realm.

The realm that earns the most from the pool receives a bonus reward. This way players can be winning a task on behalf of their realm while still collecting RP. Still have participation RP even for players who can not stay till the end. This would make it so RvR tasks are not just disconnected RP grabs that last under an hour.

Sun 30 Sep 2018 2:42 PM by Shinyuka

First of all I want to emphasize, I really appreciate all the work and ideas the staff has put into this project so far.

When the tasks were implemented, I really liked the system, because it gives every player the possibility to progress in realm ranks, and get a reward for participating in RvR. My hope was for it to be an incentive for all types of RvR (solo, smallmen, full groups and even "large scale" grps

), even though my own prefered type is more towards 8vs8.

In my opinion, casual players, meaning those who find groups in the game - not in discord or whatsapp groups, are the bread and butter of such a server. Solo players (mainly stealthers) and 8v8 groups benefit from those players, because they bring live into what would otherwise be a pretty sterile arena type of server.
The range of what would I consider a casual players is pretty wide tho. From the beginner type, who has learned the basics but cant compete against veterans, to the experienced player, who can compete but doesnt want to put too much time and effort into a 18 year old game.

~~~~ end of proloque ~~~~

So the problem for me is, that even though the basic idea behind tasks is a very good one, the current result seems somewhat toxic to the essence of DAoC. We all love that game for different (and our very own) reasons. But I'm very sure one common part of that is for the game to be dynamic, in some way unpredictable and also its ability to pump blood through our veins with an unique pressure.

When I now login, see the task just changed to "Kill enemy players in Hadrian's Wall", I see about an hour of forced RvR in Albion ahead of me, and when solo, seriously thinking about having a break and doing something usefull. Why forced u might ask? This has already been answered by the OP in a very insightful way, and i sign 98% of his post.

I think, changing the tasks to a point where they dont interfere with the 'normal' RvR business is a good idea. Because right now they are not only dictating RvR, but are also pretty repetative. Fight in pk zone > keep chain > domination, rinse and repeat in next realm. No need to attack a e.g. Fensalir, to make mids come out. No need to even care for any keep, if it is not subject of the current task. And if keeps dont matter, caravans dont matter aswell - which is a shame, because i like the idea.

The current system does incentivy going out and do RvR, that is correct. But it also leads to mindlessness. Why try to actually raid a keep, when you can just run over a certain line without getting caught, and be rewarded. This isnt DAoC, this is American Football. Why put ANY thought into anything, when you can just zerg and blindly follow the task objectives. This is what (especially) hibs do for some weeks now, at certain times of the day. I dont wanna argue about zergs, it just feels stupid. Because even higher RR grps, that are solid and can compete, sometimes sit with the zerg at a keep and wait for a timer to go down. Is this DAoC as we want it? Waiting for attack timers, get killed in the vicinity of a keep, or purposely run through emain also to get killed, just to get a reward?

What I think can be done to fight the problems I mentioned:

Incentivy players to do RvR in a way that is more in line with the essence of the game - dynamic, large scale oriented battles and strategies!

How can this be achieved?

- Replace the current tasks with some that are less dictating (make them less indispensable). Players should not feel forced to participate, or feel they are missing something if they do something different.

- Make tasks more dynamic (i really liked the ideas of the OP)

- Make tasks less appealing to stealthers. All the current tasks can either easily, or even best be done as a stealther. Where as most other classes are basicly 'fucked', when going solo or duo. Stealthers have their place in DAoC, but imho they benefit too much from the current system, which might be a reason for their (still rising) numbers.

I don't claim my ideas to be award winning or the ultimate solution, but I think they can have a positive influence on the current situation, which imo, needs to be changed definitely.