I don't think flowers are a legitimate weapon model to be equipped in RvR in this ruleset - any insight into if this will be fixed?
Flowers
Started 24 Apr 2020
by
Kaseylol
Fri 24 Apr 2020 1:43 AM
by
Kwall0311
Why
Fri 24 Apr 2020 11:23 AM
by
Kaseylol
Idk why can't clerics wear plate model ids or theurgists use large shield ids?
You can't even make a thrust weapon look slash so why would you be able to wear flowers?
https://playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?t=13483
Putting focus on armor is the real issue I guess - don't think it makes a lot of sense to let people hide their primary weapon without some cost.
You can't even make a thrust weapon look slash so why would you be able to wear flowers?
https://playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?t=13483
Putting focus on armor is the real issue I guess - don't think it makes a lot of sense to let people hide their primary weapon without some cost.
Fri 24 Apr 2020 11:31 AM
by
Kwall0311
Kaseylol wrote: ↑Fri 24 Apr 2020 11:23 AMIdk why can't clerics wear plate model ids or theurgists use large shield ids?
You can't even make a thrust weapon look slash so why would you be able to wear flowers?
The flowers/scroll/mugs/rolling pin are not weapon reskins. So if you see a Cleric with flowers for example, it means that that grey item from the gambling merchant is in their mainhand.
Fri 24 Apr 2020 2:38 PM
by
Kaseylol
Kwall0311 wrote: ↑Fri 24 Apr 2020 11:31 AMKaseylol wrote: ↑Fri 24 Apr 2020 11:23 AMIdk why can't clerics wear plate model ids or theurgists use large shield ids?
You can't even make a thrust weapon look slash so why would you be able to wear flowers?
The flowers/scroll/mugs/rolling pin are not weapon reskins. So if you see a Cleric with flowers for example, it means that that grey item from the gambling merchant is in their mainhand.
Yep, never claimed otherwise
Fri 24 Apr 2020 2:47 PM
by
Kwall0311
Kaseylol wrote: ↑Fri 24 Apr 2020 2:38 PMKwall0311 wrote: ↑Fri 24 Apr 2020 11:31 AMKaseylol wrote: ↑Fri 24 Apr 2020 11:23 AMIdk why can't clerics wear plate model ids or theurgists use large shield ids?
You can't even make a thrust weapon look slash so why would you be able to wear flowers?
The flowers/scroll/mugs/rolling pin are not weapon reskins. So if you see a Cleric with flowers for example, it means that that grey item from the gambling merchant is in their mainhand.
Yep, never claimed otherwise
Well you used the example of not being able to make slash look like thrust, or wear plate models. Which has absolutely nothing to do with the unmistakable grey non weapon they wield.
Fri 24 Apr 2020 2:53 PM
by
Nunki
But... But... It was always like that!Kaseylol wrote: ↑Fri 24 Apr 2020 2:38 PMKwall0311 wrote: ↑Fri 24 Apr 2020 11:31 AMKaseylol wrote: ↑Fri 24 Apr 2020 11:23 AMIdk why can't clerics wear plate model ids or theurgists use large shield ids?
You can't even make a thrust weapon look slash so why would you be able to wear flowers?
The flowers/scroll/mugs/rolling pin are not weapon reskins. So if you see a Cleric with flowers for example, it means that that grey item from the gambling merchant is in their mainhand.
Yep, never claimed otherwise
Ever since I can remember (at least 15 years), you could equip those non value items and run around with them. Flowers, mugs, etc.
Same as you could run around with nothing equipped at all.
The downside is that you can't attack and that you are missing a huge amount of imbue points for your temp.
Which is the reason that anyone with it (never seen someone on the battlefield) is probably a caster, or a healing class with a huge amount of 70+ utility items.
I really don't see the problem.
You may have a strategic advantage for the first seconds, but a huge permanent disadvantage.
And the situation is not comparable to any kind of weapon or armor-reskins you mentioned above, because there is nothing misleading about it.
It is not a bug, it is not even a weapon model, because it is not a weapon, hence you can't attack with it.
There is nothing misleading about it because nobody would say "Damn, he is carrying flowers! Must be a Mercenary!".
People really find new stuff to complain after 20 years of DAoC.
Fri 24 Apr 2020 7:59 PM
by
Kaseylol
Kwall0311 wrote: ↑Fri 24 Apr 2020 2:47 PM
Well you used the example of not being able to make slash look like thrust, or wear plate models. Which has absolutely nothing to do with the unmistakable grey non weapon they wield.
I did it to demonstrate that it's clear Phoenix doesn't like people to be able to hide what class they are in RvR - this is a contrast to most freeshards in history.
All I'm saying is it's not normal to see people without weapons on and it clearly may go against the original vision of the devs considering all the other measures they've put in to prevent people looking like other classes etc.
Fri 24 Apr 2020 8:01 PM
by
Kaseylol
Nunki wrote: ↑Fri 24 Apr 2020 2:53 PMBut... But... It was always like that!
Ever since I can remember (at least 15 years), you could equip those non value items and run around with them. Flowers, mugs, etc.
Same as you could run around with nothing equipped at all.
The downside is that you can't attack and that you are missing a huge amount of imbue points for your temp.
Which is the reason that anyone with it (never seen someone on the battlefield) is probably a caster, or a healing class with a huge amount of 70+ utility items.
I really don't see the problem.
You may have a strategic advantage for the first seconds, but a huge permanent disadvantage.
And the situation is not comparable to any kind of weapon or armor-reskins you mentioned above, because there is nothing misleading about it.
It is not a bug, it is not even a weapon model, because it is not a weapon, hence you can't attack with it.
There is nothing misleading about it because nobody would say "Damn, he is carrying flowers! Must be a Mercenary!".
People really find new stuff to complain after 20 years of DAoC.
I don't personally care to see lurikeens and their pets casting next to each other from range and have to click both to see which one is the caster because neither have a staff on.
If you enjoy that - fine - but it's clearly a change from normality.
Fri 24 Apr 2020 8:05 PM
by
Riac
tbh, im with this dude. too old for all this shit.Kaseylol wrote: ↑Fri 24 Apr 2020 8:01 PMNunki wrote: ↑Fri 24 Apr 2020 2:53 PMBut... But... It was always like that!
Ever since I can remember (at least 15 years), you could equip those non value items and run around with them. Flowers, mugs, etc.
Same as you could run around with nothing equipped at all.
The downside is that you can't attack and that you are missing a huge amount of imbue points for your temp.
Which is the reason that anyone with it (never seen someone on the battlefield) is probably a caster, or a healing class with a huge amount of 70+ utility items.
I really don't see the problem.
You may have a strategic advantage for the first seconds, but a huge permanent disadvantage.
And the situation is not comparable to any kind of weapon or armor-reskins you mentioned above, because there is nothing misleading about it.
It is not a bug, it is not even a weapon model, because it is not a weapon, hence you can't attack with it.
There is nothing misleading about it because nobody would say "Damn, he is carrying flowers! Must be a Mercenary!".
People really find new stuff to complain after 20 years of DAoC.
I don't personally care to see lurikeens and their pets casting next to each other from range and have to click both to see which one is the caster because neither have a staff on.
If you enjoy that - fine - but it's clearly a change from normality.
Fri 24 Apr 2020 8:13 PM
by
Kwall0311
Ok sure looking like their pets can confusing but, wouldnt the flowers give away that they arent the pet? Casters can use no weapon at all with crafting their Focus lines in armor. And they have been doing that .
Fri 24 Apr 2020 8:28 PM
by
Kaseylol
Kwall0311 wrote: ↑Fri 24 Apr 2020 8:13 PMCasters can use no weapon at all with crafting their Focus lines in armor. And they have been doing that .
I suppose that's the real issue here. I'm not sure if you've always been able to SC spell focus on armor but it seems to add another layer to DAoC that I don't know why anyone would enjoy.
There have always been healers with weaponless temps (like clerics wearing staves, etc.) but seeing casters without weapons on is completely new to me - and I've been logging into hundreds of random freeshards for like 15 years. If it's live-like I'll drop it but otherwise this seems to be a pretty silly thing to allow.
Sat 25 Apr 2020 12:11 PM
by
Sepplord
Just for the record: it is possible to attack with the mug equipped (havent tested flowers or any other item)
My bonedancer would have a 52%misschance on dummy with it though.
My bonedancer would have a 52%misschance on dummy with it though.
Sat 25 Apr 2020 4:00 PM
by
Nunki
Would be totally the same as if the Ench decides to run without a staff.Kaseylol wrote: ↑Fri 24 Apr 2020 8:01 PMNunki wrote: ↑Fri 24 Apr 2020 2:53 PMBut... But... It was always like that!
Ever since I can remember (at least 15 years), you could equip those non value items and run around with them. Flowers, mugs, etc.
Same as you could run around with nothing equipped at all.
The downside is that you can't attack and that you are missing a huge amount of imbue points for your temp.
Which is the reason that anyone with it (never seen someone on the battlefield) is probably a caster, or a healing class with a huge amount of 70+ utility items.
I really don't see the problem.
You may have a strategic advantage for the first seconds, but a huge permanent disadvantage.
And the situation is not comparable to any kind of weapon or armor-reskins you mentioned above, because there is nothing misleading about it.
It is not a bug, it is not even a weapon model, because it is not a weapon, hence you can't attack with it.
There is nothing misleading about it because nobody would say "Damn, he is carrying flowers! Must be a Mercenary!".
People really find new stuff to complain after 20 years of DAoC.
I don't personally care to see lurikeens and their pets casting next to each other from range and have to click both to see which one is the caster because neither have a staff on.
If you enjoy that - fine - but it's clearly a change from normality.
What would be your "fix"? Any character MUST wear a weapon at any time?
Sat 25 Apr 2020 7:38 PM
by
gruenesschaf
gruenesschaf
Focus working on anything but staffs was actually unknown. This will be fixed next Saturday, as this affects some templates there will be some announcement beforehand similar to what we did with the other general spell crafting bug last march (https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6016). The fix itself will simply be that focus is only counted if it is on a staff.
Sun 26 Apr 2020 2:38 AM
by
Kaseylol
Nunki wrote: ↑Sat 25 Apr 2020 4:00 PMWould be totally the same as if the Ench decides to run without a staff.Kaseylol wrote: ↑Fri 24 Apr 2020 8:01 PMI don't personally care to see lurikeens and their pets casting next to each other from range and have to click both to see which one is the caster because neither have a staff on.
If you enjoy that - fine - but it's clearly a change from normality.
What would be your "fix"? Any character MUST wear a weapon at any time?
Per the dev response my fix would be to fix it? Nice arrogance though.
Wed 29 Apr 2020 10:24 PM
by
daytonchambers
Kaseylol wrote: ↑Sun 26 Apr 2020 2:38 AMNunki wrote: ↑Sat 25 Apr 2020 4:00 PMWould be totally the same as if the Ench decides to run without a staff.Kaseylol wrote: ↑Fri 24 Apr 2020 8:01 PMI don't personally care to see lurikeens and their pets casting next to each other from range and have to click both to see which one is the caster because neither have a staff on.
If you enjoy that - fine - but it's clearly a change from normality.
What would be your "fix"? Any character MUST wear a weapon at any time?
Per the dev response my fix would be to fix it? Nice arrogance though.
Way to break a bunch of peoples templates just because you hate flowers.
It confuses the character and makes them look like a different class you say?
So does Spear of Kings on a fucking Druid. Your logic doesn't fly here, nice arrogance though.
Thu 30 Apr 2020 2:56 AM
by
Astaa
Heroes running with small shields pretending to be support to entice assassins?
Heroes with short bow out pretending to be un-stealthed rangers?
Support with spear of kings?
If a cloth wearer confuses you because it has flowers in its main hand then I don't think this petty and unnecessary change will help you much...
Heroes with short bow out pretending to be un-stealthed rangers?
Support with spear of kings?
If a cloth wearer confuses you because it has flowers in its main hand then I don't think this petty and unnecessary change will help you much...
Thu 30 Apr 2020 7:00 AM
by
Prometheus
gruenesschaf is it really that big of a deal having people with a focus on their armor? seems more like a QoL than anything.
Thu 30 Apr 2020 9:27 AM
by
Cadebrennus
Astaa wrote: ↑Thu 30 Apr 2020 2:56 AMHeroes running with small shields pretending to be support to entice assassins?
Heroes with short bow out pretending to be un-stealthed rangers?
Support with spear of kings?
If a cloth wearer confuses you because it has flowers in its main hand then I don't think this petty and unnecessary change will help you much...
That being said, doesn't the Scout program that scans your chatlog while still in game defeat this purpose? One of the things that makes DAOC unique is not knowing exactly what class you're facing, unlike WoW where you click on the opponent and it tells you that you're fighting a Shaman (for example.)
The nature of what you are facing should be unknown unless you can discern it. Using this Scout program should be bannable IMO
Thu 30 Apr 2020 10:29 AM
by
Sepplord
The scout-app that was mentioned here scans the ingame chat?
Wouldn't that itself already be a rule violation?
i assumed it was an app where you could type in the name, and it would automatically look for the name in herald and the recommend an arrowtype. Still cheesy, but requiring manual reading of chatlog and input into the app.
If it directly reads the chat that sounds like a violation.
What's next, scanning healers helper for HP and playing sounds when something drops below a threshold?
Scanning chatlogs for people purging CC and playing sounds when their immunities run out?
Wouldn't that itself already be a rule violation?
i assumed it was an app where you could type in the name, and it would automatically look for the name in herald and the recommend an arrowtype. Still cheesy, but requiring manual reading of chatlog and input into the app.
If it directly reads the chat that sounds like a violation.
What's next, scanning healers helper for HP and playing sounds when something drops below a threshold?
Scanning chatlogs for people purging CC and playing sounds when their immunities run out?
Thu 30 Apr 2020 11:43 AM
by
Sepplord
which is technically different, but practically the same? (serious question...i am not firm with the difference)
Thu 30 Apr 2020 1:55 PM
by
Nunki
"Technically different" AND "practically the same" does not exist. Either it is forbidden or not and the description on what is forbidden is quite exact on Phoenix.Sepplord wrote: ↑Thu 30 Apr 2020 11:43 AM
which is technically different, but practically the same? (serious question...i am not firm with the difference)
Logging your chat is an integrated feature of DAoC without resctrictions regarding the post processing of these logs (afaik).
There is no interaction with the client itself, there is no mitm. The only thing it needs to work are some qbinds.
From my point of view, I see no rule violation. I couldn't find any rules regarding screen overlays in the ruleset.
I don't really need it.
I recognize the class and armour resistances fast enough to play without it, only RR would be some additional data I wouldn't usually get on the fly, but if you play for a period of time you know the common enemies anyway.
Thu 30 Apr 2020 3:49 PM
by
Astaa
Not heard of that program before but it sounds like it would be illegal (here and on live!)
And yes, hiding your class has always been part of the game for me.
I used to run a shar ment in wolf form in the zerg on live, free casting!
And yes, hiding your class has always been part of the game for me.
I used to run a shar ment in wolf form in the zerg on live, free casting!
Fri 1 May 2020 10:14 AM
by
Kaseylol
Astaa wrote: ↑Thu 30 Apr 2020 2:56 AMHeroes running with small shields pretending to be support to entice assassins?
Heroes with short bow out pretending to be un-stealthed rangers?
Support with spear of kings?
If a cloth wearer confuses you because it has flowers in its main hand then I don't think this petty and unnecessary change will help you much...
Some of those things are natural... Heros can wear small shields. You're taking a simple argument and making it absurd to create an invalid point.
Then in your next paragraph you take the argument and oversimplify it to sound smart while ignoring all the points of the actual argument itself.
Guess I'm glad Phoenix staff is Phoenix staff and you're a random.
Fri 1 May 2020 5:00 PM
by
Astaa
Mate its not our fault you're too dumb to identify classes by behaviour.
Fri 1 May 2020 5:08 PM
by
dbeattie71
Chat log is delayed I think.
Fri 1 May 2020 5:29 PM
by
Cadebrennus
Not if you turn on chatlog, then turn it off. I read the description of how the program works. It should be illegal. Basically, you hit a key to turn on chatlog, target a player, then turn chatlog off. Then the program apparently sends a search to the herald, finds the character, then sends that info to your overlay, which is basically all of the info from the herald, including your exact RR and class. From that description I would guess that it would be near instantaneous.
Fri 1 May 2020 9:42 PM
by
Kaseylol
Astaa wrote: ↑Fri 1 May 2020 5:00 PMMate its not our fault you're too dumb to identify classes by behaviour.
So at 2k range, a lurikeen in blue dyed robe with no weapon is standing next to his pet casting. How do you tell the difference? Maybe you play so slow you would click both and then find out but some of us min/max APM.
You're just being an edgelord - no one is saying not wearing a weapon confuses anyone in all cases - just some.
Regardless, Phoenix clearly has a ruleset that supports people looking like they should, hence the dev response on fixing this.
Sorry you're offended your template is ruined - you'll be okay tho.
Fri 1 May 2020 9:47 PM
by
Prometheus
Well in regards to the original topic, Nunki is right you have always been able to equip mugs, etc. below are a few different pictures taken directly off allakhazam, the reason i'm taking time to do this is so we can put this to rest.
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