Necro Tether Range nerf

Started 28 Apr 2020
by Strikejk
in Ask the Team
Why was the necro tether range nerfed?
The range is so low now (1000 units) it is absolutely unusable in RvR unless you are some first-day noob who only plays with the necro pet on auto-follow 24/7 who gets nuked by any hib caster in 2s.

1. You can't make use of the spell range now. All spells have a range of 1500 and a few of 2000. These values are useless now that the pet can't be further away than 1000 units. This shows you how nuts this nerf is. You lowered the tether range so far that a necro can't even use their max spell range anymore!!

2. The distance warning you get is a complete joke as well, it gives you a 10s warning which is useless as your pet is instantly removed if it is further away than roughly 1250. 1250 units are met within 1.5s after the warning on speed 1. Or 0.2 seconds on speed 6. Yeah good luck reacting in time, if you get the warning the pet is already gone.

3. No voting, no discussion, no scheduled patch, buried as tiny line together with 10 unimportant ones in the same patch note - WHY? This is a massive nerf that basically makes the necro class useless in RvR and you just do that on a whim, without any community input or even warning, nothing, and then you bury that in a patch note with 10 random little crap items AND use cryptic words like "Tether range". I had to google that to even realize what the heck you guys did. But I guess that is exactly why you did it, so most people don't realize what you did.

4. Reason for the massive nerf? This is a nerf from 2500? units down to 1000 units Thats a nerf of 150%, where exactly is the reasoning for that? Was the necro in any shape or form overperforming in rvr combat? I didn't see it, I don't know anybody who saw that and I hardly doubt ANYONE including the devs can show me data where the necro was overperforming.

5. You make a necro force to play like a regular player WITHOUT giving them the upsides of a regular player. Necro pets still take massive amounts of crit damage compared to regular players. They cant see their buffs, debuffs and effects properly, so they don't know when the pet is mezzed, rooted or stunned and are bound to lose it in an instant if they run out of range (see #3). They have to fight the UI with annoying commands that reset when you attack a player (perma passive??). They have by far the lowest cast speed due to having no base dex and atrociously long cast time of 3s on their spells. Meanwhile the damage of the spells is low and the mana cost high. For a regular caster it is by far the worst option in terms of cast speed and DPS because of that. Furthermore some RAs straight up don't even work properly on the necro pet unlike actual caster. Also they lack range casts with range AoE, debuffs, or effects like snare-DDs or base stuns. And last but not least they have to fight annoying LoS restrictions of needed LoS to the pet, to the target and the pet to the target. All in all a necro IS NOT a regular caster and you can't treat him like that. The necro pet already has massive downsides compared to a regular casters meanwhile you nerf everything that gives the necro a tiny edge compared to regular caster.

1.) Revert Tether range. There was no reason and no community involvement in this massive nerf. It is unnecessary and unjust.*
2.) Fix the warning system. It is useless in its current form as you will never even get close to the 10s it offers you, not even the 5s. Shorten the timer from 10s to 8s but the pet is only lost after the timer runs out and no range restriction.
3.) Don't do shady massive nerfs like this. Involve the community. Stop getting balance ideas from Hibernian players, which includes hibernian maining Devs and GMs.
4.) Play a freaking necro before you nerf it to the ground.
Tue 28 Apr 2020 1:44 PM by necrolove1
100% agree if they played necro they would have never done this. it is VERY annoying and truely unplayable if you are not familiar with the class.
Tue 28 Apr 2020 1:47 PM by necrolove1
I think the main reason for this nerf was so that necros couldn't just run in and place a Ground target. but there are other ways of fixing this, it just creates more problems.
Tue 28 Apr 2020 1:53 PM by necrolove1
Heck they could make it so the GT has to be visible to the pet and not the caster, that would fix the problem without causing 5 others. This fix truely was a knee jerk reaction to fix Ground targeting, and was not thought out at all.

Also stop with these little hidden nerfs, first you nerf Necro ABS without even posting it in notes.

then you nerf tether without thinking of necros current limitations, (cant see if rooted/mezzed etc. poor pathing at times) as if it were a slight change
Tue 28 Apr 2020 2:05 PM by Riac
Lol lame ass necros
Tue 28 Apr 2020 2:09 PM by necrolove1
necrolove1 wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 1:47 PM
I think the main reason for this nerf was so that necros couldn't just run in and place a Ground target. but there are other ways of fixing this, it just creates more problems.

Not to mention, it doesnt even solve the problem, i can still run into the lord room and place a GT (even with just 1000 units of tether) , Tether needs to be re-extended, and some proper disccusion needs to happen in order to find a proper solution. I.e. Pet needs to have LoS on GT for it to be assisted on.
Tue 28 Apr 2020 2:48 PM by midounet
Yea... You have to play Passive pet... because if u play def pet ... if any ranger / hunter /caster hit your pet, it rush them and... you loose your pet!

You want to interupt a caster without use your spell (bcause NS or no QC) ? You can't because you loose your pet again.

Your pet is rooted and you didn't see that ? You loose your pet again quickly.

1000 range sux a lot, you kill the character.

Do like the bard amnesia Nerf from 2300 to 1850 and for finish 2000. But don't let the Tether range to 1000 it's horrible -__-
Tue 28 Apr 2020 2:58 PM by Expfighter
You all can thank seelixh/seelihx for this /nerf, he more than anyone else was abusing the ground targeting exploit

I say make the necro turn into his/her/its pet with no additional abilities that would solve a lot of problem, and no don't give them 30 new abilities like they did on live.
Tue 28 Apr 2020 4:11 PM by Sepplord
As a noob to necro and it's playstyle 1000tether sounds quite low, but could someone explain why it makes necro unplayable?

OP sounded genuine at first but then turned into a bad faith whining rant, so that credibility is gone imo. Doesn't mean the change is fine though...
Tue 28 Apr 2020 4:23 PM by Quathan
Strikejk wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 1:40 PM
This is a nerf from 2500?

the range was about 1850 when I tested it before change btw.
Tue 28 Apr 2020 4:45 PM by Horus
The reason is Necros exploiting pet tether range and attacking keep lords through locked doors.

I really don't care what the range is but a necro pet should not be able to reach a lord room of a keep when door is up. Or the on the oil level of a tower.

This is not like a cabbie pet, SM pet etc...this is like an actually player being able to ignore closed doors.

The GT thing is a separate issue. That should be removed completely from necro shade form.
Tue 28 Apr 2020 4:55 PM by Quik
Horus wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 4:45 PM
This is not like a cabbie pet, SM pet etc...this is like an actually player being able to ignore closed doors.

This 100%.

Plus lets not act like it is 1 single necro that caused this...
Tue 28 Apr 2020 5:07 PM by necrolove1
The master cannot use any spells on pet nor can the pet use any spells without Line of sight of the master. When a pet goes out of LoS, short of melee it can do nothing, thus making it no different from any pet once out of LoS.

A proper fix to this issue shouldnt be a necro tether nerf that only effects necromancers, However a change to how long a pet can be aggressive and no LoS of its master ( thus solving all issues with pets going through doors). At least untill a proper fix is implemented regarding doors
Tue 28 Apr 2020 5:08 PM by joshisanonymous
Horus wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 4:45 PM
The reason is Necros exploiting pet tether range and attacking keep lords through locked doors.

I really don't care what the range is but a necro pet should not be able to reach a lord room of a keep when door is up. Or the on the oil level of a tower.

This is not like a cabbie pet, SM pet etc...this is like an actually player being able to ignore closed doors.

The GT thing is a separate issue. That should be removed completely from necro shade form.

I'm not sure if I agree with this or not. Certainly the necro pet isn't exactly like a cabby or SM pet, but it is a pet with many of the downsides that pets get. Part of what makes the class interesting, though, is that with those downsides come some upsides that are unique to them. I mean, yeah maybe they shouldn't be able to send their pet through doors, but then I guess neither should other pet classes. For instance, I juggernaut 5 my fully buffed pet (summoning spec) and send it into CKs. I even focus shield it and heal it while it's in there. I probably shouldn't be allowed to do that if a necro can't send their pet in.

As for attacking the lord, I'm not sure how this is actually accomplished. I know my pet will sometimes get hit by a lord, and so I guess I could set it to defensive at just the right time and that would cause it to attack the lord consistently? I don't know if that's what necros are actually doing or if they're just getting a shot in here and there because of damage shields and whatnot.
Tue 28 Apr 2020 5:11 PM by necrolove1
joshisanonymous wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 5:08 PM
Horus wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 4:45 PM
The reason is Necros exploiting pet tether range and attacking keep lords through locked doors.

I really don't care what the range is but a necro pet should not be able to reach a lord room of a keep when door is up. Or the on the oil level of a tower.

This is not like a cabbie pet, SM pet etc...this is like an actually player being able to ignore closed doors.

The GT thing is a separate issue. That should be removed completely from necro shade form.

I'm not sure if I agree with this or not. Certainly the necro pet isn't exactly like a cabby or SM pet, but it is a pet with many of the downsides that pets get. Part of what makes the class interesting, though, is that with those downsides come some upsides that are unique to them. I mean, yeah maybe they shouldn't be able to send their pet through doors, but then I guess neither should other pet classes. For instance, I juggernaut 5 my fully buffed pet (summoning spec) and send it into CKs. I even focus shield it and heal it while it's in there. I probably shouldn't be allowed to do that if a necro can't send their pet in.

As for attacking the lord, I'm not sure how this is actually accomplished. I know my pet will sometimes get hit by a lord, and so I guess I could set it to defensive at just the right time and that would cause it to attack the lord consistently? I don't know if that's what necros are actually doing or if they're just getting a shot in here and there because of damage shields and whatnot.

to add to this:
1. the pet cannot automatically attack the lord you have to send it to do it.
2. the pet cannot tank the lord and live longer than 20 seconds if that
3. if there were enough clerics in the group to keep the pet up while it kills a keep lord there should be bans for these players not class nerfs. (not only that but heals from cleric would pull hate on lord causing him to reset)
Tue 28 Apr 2020 5:37 PM by Strikejk
Quathan wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 4:23 PM
Strikejk wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 1:40 PM
This is a nerf from 2500?

the range was about 1850 when I tested it before change btw.

Pretty sure it was at least 2k as is the HoT spell in range.
+ the distance in which you get a warning. So between 2k and 2.5k
Tue 28 Apr 2020 5:39 PM by easytoremember
Sepplord wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 4:11 PM
As a noob to necro and it's playstyle 1000tether sounds quite low, but could someone explain why it makes necro unplayable?
Take for example the single DoT: it has 1500 range and is the only non-pet-cast that can reach more than 500 range from the shade's position so long as the pet is inside 499 range of the target. The best usage is interrupting or keeping a target in combat that is trying to build distance from your pet. Throwing in a cast just before said target gets out of range means your pet is at least 1001 (1500-499) units away up to 1350 if the pet is in melee range prioir to your being able to run

The Heal-over-Time spell has 2000 range so if you get a cast in at max range as your pet is persueing a target it instantly releases. Generally any ranged attacker it is best to close the distance immediately and setting up HoT is necessary to do so; from the beginning your pet
is 700 (stick+500) units from you which widens with every
subsequent cast up until(if) the pet catches the target

If you walk off a bridge but your pet is not in stick range he paths to one or the other end of the bridge and releases because even with 2500 range hugging the bridge is
sometimes not enough to save the pet. If the target your pet is hitting jumps off the bridge (a)the pet jumps with him putting you at >1500 or (b)you jumped
with him but the pet pathed to the side instead

Ichor and Volcanic Pillar have 1850 range and are casted by the shade. That makes them useful to catch or kill off enemies that flee with the pet close behind (much like the DoT). Finishing the cast as target reaches max range places the pet up to 1650 units from you at that moment

It's rare for enemy to sit inside 500 range for you
to just sit and spam lifetap. Next to all fights consist of the pet chasing the target around with the shade gradually lagging behind. In my case it was typically 1200 units from me at any given time

The pet also loves to run off on its own without your awares. Keeping it on passive doesn't always keep the aggro list clean so sometimes after the target you were killing dies your pet goes hunting

Then as the other guy said very often you don't realize your pet has been CC'd until you're 5 seconds from autorelease or the pet has already died

This also introduces new instant-death spots. The pet frequently clips corners or objects for a fraction of a second that places it underground outside of tether and kills it without warning. By shortening the tether there are far more places for this to occur


necrolove1 wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 5:07 PM
A proper fix to this issue shouldnt be a necro tether nerf that only effects necromancers, However a change to how long a pet can be aggressive and no LoS of its master ( thus solving all issues with pets going through doors). At least untill a proper fix is implemented regarding doors
That would mean anyone doing circles around things like keep structure or tower perimeter or maze or bridges to avoid LOS with necro would deaggro pet.

The Keep Lord getting hit by pet is irrelevant; the Keep Lord takes no damage from that range


Horus wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 4:45 PM
The GT thing is a separate issue. That should be removed completely from necro shade form.
You need GT for maelstrom and siege weapons

Putting A LOS-to-pet requirement on GT means a necro
can't set up a GT in advance for maelstrom or even place GT while using treb
Tue 28 Apr 2020 5:41 PM by Strikejk
joshisanonymous wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 5:08 PM
As for attacking the lord, I'm not sure how this is actually accomplished. I know my pet will sometimes get hit by a lord, and so I guess I could set it to defensive at just the right time and that would cause it to attack the lord consistently? I don't know if that's what necros are actually doing or if they're just getting a shot in here and there because of damage shields and whatnot.

Jeez, you guys here in the forum don't even know that you can not damage a lord without being near him, that applies to the shade too. And this is where balance patches are made from, no wonder we get such silly nerfs from people who obviously never played a necromancer once in their life in rvr.
Tue 28 Apr 2020 6:04 PM by joshisanonymous
Strikejk wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 5:41 PM
joshisanonymous wrote:
Tue 28 Apr 2020 5:08 PM
As for attacking the lord, I'm not sure how this is actually accomplished. I know my pet will sometimes get hit by a lord, and so I guess I could set it to defensive at just the right time and that would cause it to attack the lord consistently? I don't know if that's what necros are actually doing or if they're just getting a shot in here and there because of damage shields and whatnot.

Jeez, you guys here in the forum don't even know that you can not damage a lord without being near him, that applies to the shade too. And this is where balance patches are made from, no wonder we get such silly nerfs from people who obviously never played a necromancer once in their life in rvr.

Except my SM pet has damaged a lord before without the CK doors being down? Don't really understand your accusations here.
Wed 29 Apr 2020 2:56 PM by Horus
It is not so much the pet attacking the lord (that does happen)..it is that the pet can attack you in the lord room. For example, you attack an Abomination with bow or spell...any ranged from inside the keep...the pet comes charging in and you hope to find some safety in the lord room.

There is none...and Abominations at close ranged are a death sentence for most classes, even without the shade form LoS.

And yes chain stunning cabbie pets being healed from outside the keep are almost just as bad....but at least all realms have an annoying pet that does that crap. Necros are different.

As far as GT...to clarify, You should not be able to groundassist off a shade form GT. Set it for you own use, that is fine.

With the incoming gtaoe nerf this will be even more of an issue as necro shades will be able to set very precise ground targets to maximize the most players inside a closed defensive area or outside against attackers hugging the wall. Mid and Hib will not have that ability to be so exact.
Sat 2 May 2020 6:36 PM by Expfighter
Horus wrote:
Wed 29 Apr 2020 2:56 PM
It is not so much the pet attacking the lord (that does happen)..it is that the pet can attack you in the lord room. For example, you attack an Abomination with bow or spell...any ranged from inside the keep...the pet comes charging in and you hope to find some safety in the lord room.

There is none...and Abominations at close ranged are a death sentence for most classes, even without the shade form LoS.

And yes chain stunning cabbie pets being healed from outside the keep are almost just as bad....but at least all realms have an annoying pet that does that crap. Necros are different.

As far as GT...to clarify, You should not be able to groundassist off a shade form GT. Set it for you own use, that is fine.

With the incoming gtaoe nerf this will be even more of an issue as necro shades will be able to set very precise ground targets to maximize the most players inside a closed defensive area or outside against attackers hugging the wall. Mid and Hib will not have that ability to be so exact.

this very EXPLOIT JUST happened at blend GT, rr8 necro at the lord while hibs were defending and no pet in sight but the shade is just CASTING AWAY! and nuking everyone in the lords room! REMOVE Ground targetting from NECROS! Oh yes and I HAVE a necro, soo SSHTTT
Thu 7 May 2020 4:37 AM by Anelyn77
I don't approve of this approach by the devs that nerf specific classes instead of dealing with the problem at it's core (like the GTAOE fix that came finally).

Especially when those nerfs come without any compensation buffs / fixes to existing problems of said classes. For example how hard would it be to show debuffs / CC on necro pet like it would be on shade itself so that we can see the type of CC and duration? Could this be implemented? Thank you!
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