Issue with Feather Item proc chance

I found my Archaic Granite Short Sword(15k feather) rarely procs, so I did some test.

Known facts about proc chance on Phoenix:
1. proc chance is only affected by weapon speed, and spec/stats difference doesn't affects proc rate.
2. Feather Item has 18% proc chance, when craft/rogs have 15% proc chance at 3.5 weapon speed.

Test conditions:
1. Test was done with quickness 208 + haste 14%(same char, same buff pot status)
2. Used 2 feather items and 2 crafted items(with alchemy doc proc).
- 1st item : Archaic Granite Short Sword(3.1 speed / 15k feather / slash)
- 2nd item : Disonant Falchion(3.5 speed / 15k feather / slash)
- 3rd item : 3.1 speed crafted thrust weapon
- 4th item : 3.5 speed crafted thrust weapon
3. I tested slash weapon with slash 50 spec, and thrust weapon with thrust 50 spec
(but we know spec doesn't affect anything, just did this to eliminate possible misunderstandings)
4. Made 300 hits(excluded missed swings) on dummy with each weapon, total 1200 hits.

Test Result :
1. 3.1 speed feather item : 300 hits / 27 procs (9%)
2. 3.5 speed feather item : 300 hits / 45 procs (15%)
3. 3.1 speed crafted item : 300 hits / 40 procs (13.3%)
4. 3.5 speed crafted item : 300 hits / 46 procs (15.3%)

So let me question some strange points here.
1. Why does Archaic Granite Short Sword have so low proc rates? It even underwhelms than crafted weapon with same speed.
2. Why does 3.5 speed feather Item have same proc rate compared to the crafted weapon with same speed?
Shouldn't feather items have 18% proc chance at 3.5 speed?

I strongly believe that proc rate on Archaic Granite Short Sword is set wrong, and some feather items(or maybe all of them, not sure cuz I only tested 2 of them) have same proc rate as crafted items.
I courteously ask devs to look into this matter.
Thank you.

Sat 11 Apr 2020 7:23 PM by Freedomcall

I just did same test on midgard with 2 feather weapons.
This time quickness was 212 but that won't affect proc rate afaik(correct me if i'm wrong).

- 1st item : Dragon-shadow Sword 4.2 speed - 500 hits / 100 procs (20%)
- 2nd item : Kvasir's Sword of Blight 3.5 speed - 500 hits / 83 procs (16.6%)

Can't be perfectly sure with 500 hits each, but at least those seems to be set higher than 15%.
4.2 feather item is supposed to proc 18%*4.2/3.5=21.6%, when 4.2 crafted item should proc 15%*4.2/3.5=18%.

Edit: After testing Hib weapons, I was pretty much convinced that 500 hits are sufficient numbers to get the very close number of coded proc chance.
I am guessing 2 weapons above are set to somewhere near 16.5%, cuz 16.5%*4.2/3.5=19.8%.
As a conclusion, I think those 2 midgard weapons are also set lower than supposed 18% chance.

Sat 11 Apr 2020 7:37 PM by Cadebrennus

Proc rate is completely native to the weapon speed and should be unaffected by any outside factors. Should being the operative word. Nice testing dude, keep it up.

Wed 15 Apr 2020 5:37 AM by Freedomcall

Just tested on hibernia this time with 2 feather weapons.

- 1st item : Shadow Walker's Blade 4.1 speed - 500 hits / 88 procs (17.6%)
- 2nd item : Shadowed Blackthorn Sword 3.3 speed - 500 hits / 71 procs (14.2%)

This time again, those 2 feather items seem to have same proc rate as crafted weapons of same speed.
4.1 feather item is supposed to proc 18%*4.1/3.5=21.08%, when 4.1 crafted item should proc 15%*4.1/3.5=17.57%.
3.3 feather item is supposed to proc 18%*3.3/3.5=16.97%, when 3.3 crafted item should proc 15%*3.3/3.5=14.14%.

Any feedback from dev?

Sat 18 Apr 2020 6:41 PM by Freedomcall

After talking with Saibaba on discord, I decided to do 1000 hits test for a larger sample.
This time, i've done test with thrust weapon on alb.

Azure Harmonic Blade 3.3 speed - 1000 hits / 147 procs (14.7%)
Again, 3.3 feather item is supposed to proc 18%*3.3/3.5=16.97%, when 3.3 crafted item should proc 15%*3.3/3.5=14.14%.
It doesn't look like its proc chance is set to "18%".

Sat 18 Apr 2020 8:03 PM by Noashakra

it's normal that a 3.3 proc less than a 4.1, it was always like this, otherwise fast weapons would be much better if would not cap your swing speed.

Sat 18 Apr 2020 8:19 PM by easytoremember

I've had the impression that DoT and Debuff proc less often than DD and Haste here but have bever gone through the trouble of testing it

You might compare feather/crafted with the same weapon speed and same proc type

Sat 18 Apr 2020 8:37 PM by char

Thanks for testing this FreedomCall.

Sun 19 Apr 2020 12:01 PM by Freedomcall

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Sat 18 Apr 2020 8:03 PM
it's normal that a 3.3 proc less than a 4.1, it was always like this, otherwise fast weapons would be much better if would not cap your swing speed.

You didn't read my calculation at all.

Sun 19 Apr 2020 12:06 PM by Freedomcall

easytoremember wrote: ↑
Sat 18 Apr 2020 8:19 PM
I've had the impression that DoT and Debuff proc less often than DD and Haste here but have bever gone through the trouble of testing it

You might compare feather/crafted with the same weapon speed and same proc type

That's why I also tested crafted weapon on the first test.
Archaic Granite Short Sword has s/c debuff and it has no equivalent for crafted weapon because we aren't able to get s/c debuff on crafted weapon.
But Disonant Falchion and the other 2 crafted weapons all had DoT proc, so it was compared with same weapon speed and same proc type(2nd item vs 4th item).

Sun 19 Apr 2020 11:43 PM by Centenario

My first impression is that your tests results look strange, I can't find a correlation.
I would have to do a similar test to confirm your results.

Sun 19 Apr 2020 11:56 PM by Sagz

Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Sun 19 Apr 2020 12:06 PM
easytoremember wrote: ↑
Sat 18 Apr 2020 8:19 PM
I've had the impression that DoT and Debuff proc less often than DD and Haste here but have bever gone through the trouble of testing it

You might compare feather/crafted with the same weapon speed and same proc type

That's why I also tested crafted weapon on the first test.
Archaic Granite Short Sword has s/c debuff and it has no equivalent for crafted weapon because we aren't able to get s/c debuff on crafted weapon.
But Disonant Falchion and the other 2 crafted weapons all had DoT proc, so it was compared with same weapon speed and same proc type(2nd item vs 4th item).

Just asking this question cause I do not know, but could it be because the weapon wont str/con debuff twice? it would wait until that wore off. Again, dont know, just a thought.

Mon 20 Apr 2020 3:34 PM by Freedomcall

Centenario wrote: ↑
Sun 19 Apr 2020 11:43 PM
My first impression is that your tests results look strange, I can't find a correlation.
I would have to do a similar test to confirm your results.

Yeap, there isn't any correlation, and that is because proc chances are coded respectively I guess?
I have no idea about coding though.

All I could confirm was
- I couldn't find any feather weapons that procs "18%(at the 3.5 speed and scales according to its weapon speed)"
- Archaic Granite Short Sword has strangely low proc rate compared to others even lower than crafted weapons

It'll be really great if you could do similar tests as well

Will be looking forward to see your results, thx.

Mon 20 Apr 2020 3:43 PM by Freedomcall

Sagz wrote: ↑
Sun 19 Apr 2020 11:56 PM
Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Sun 19 Apr 2020 12:06 PM
easytoremember wrote: ↑
Sat 18 Apr 2020 8:19 PM
I've had the impression that DoT and Debuff proc less often than DD and Haste here but have bever gone through the trouble of testing it

You might compare feather/crafted with the same weapon speed and same proc type

That's why I also tested crafted weapon on the first test.
Archaic Granite Short Sword has s/c debuff and it has no equivalent for crafted weapon because we aren't able to get s/c debuff on crafted weapon.
But Disonant Falchion and the other 2 crafted weapons all had DoT proc, so it was compared with same weapon speed and same proc type(2nd item vs 4th item).

Just asking this question cause I do not know, but could it be because the weapon wont str/con debuff twice? it would wait until that wore off. Again, dont know, just a thought.

That was the actual problem when I was trying to record combat log, cuz as you said, reapplying s/c debuff on already debuffed dummy didn't create any log.
So on all tests except the last one, I counted all the numbers whenever I saw the "proc effect", therefore, There was no loss of numbers.

And on the last test(1000 individual hits), I changed dummy whenever d/q debuff procs so that It could also be recorded into the combat log.
And you can see that still proc rate didn't reach 18% at all.

Mon 27 Apr 2020 8:04 AM by SlowMo

Should be an easy check for a dev if some procc chances are messed up.

Wonder why no respsone yet.?

Thanks for your effort guys!

Mon 27 Apr 2020 8:24 AM by Cadebrennus

SlowMo wrote: ↑
Mon 27 Apr 2020 8:04 AM
Should be an easy check for a dev if some procc chances are messed up.

Wonder why no respsone yet.?

Thanks for your effort guys!

They don't like being called out on this stuff.

Mon 27 Apr 2020 10:42 AM by inoeth

where did you get this 18% from?

Mon 27 Apr 2020 11:58 AM by asnusia

A gm in a previous topic wrote feather item proc is 18% normalized for a 3.5 speed

Mon 27 Apr 2020 2:15 PM by Killaloth

They need to be checked but please raise issues appropriately, dev times is precious. Always post logs or you risk wasting your own time too.

My test below (Hib, Blademaster), around 3 hrs on dummy, unstyled.

MH - Sword of Sorrow 4.3 feather (22.11% proc chance on paper)
OH – Darkened Vine Covered Sickle 2.9 feather (14.91% proc chance on paper)

Landed MH hits: 3000
MH procs: 332
MH proc %: 11.06%

Landed OH hits: 3020
OH procs 382
OH proc %: 12.65%

Offhand hitting more than mainhand (!)
Faster offhand also proccing more than mainhand (!)

Please check proc rate, the slowest feather blade on Hib should have the highest proc rate too.

Other observation: MH Con dropped to 99% halfway during the test, OH still 100%. I just bought the Sword of Sorrow from the merchant and I actually repaired the OH yesterday and done a rvr night on it. MH is therefore degrading faster.

Bug raised, chatlog attached:

https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issues/0f6fca3e-d391-42f4-8c7c-0592c15ecce2

You can add your comments to this bug report, keep it short and attach logs too.

Mon 27 Apr 2020 3:41 PM by

Uthred

I deleted your post and the answer from Inoeth to your insult. Pls stop insulting each others. Either try to discuss like normal human beings or dont post here. Thank you for understanding.

Mon 27 Apr 2020 3:43 PM by Cadebrennus

inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 27 Apr 2020 10:42 AM
where did you get this 18% from?

From a dev post as noted above. However it was deleted. I guess we know where you really PvP, and you can't even solo on the boards.

Mon 27 Apr 2020 4:21 PM by inoeth

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 27 Apr 2020 3:43 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 27 Apr 2020 10:42 AM
where did you get this 18% from?

From a dev post as noted above. However it was deleted. I guess we know where you really PvP, and you can't even solo on the boards.

do you realize that this:

Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 27 Apr 2020 3:41 PM
I deleted your post and the answer from Inoeth to your insult. Pls stop insulting each others. Either try to discuss like normal human beings or dont post here. Thank you for understanding.

was directed to you in the first place?
still you continue with your insults. its not my fault you dont have a clue on so many topics and tend to tell ppl obviously wrong things. hell even gruenesschaf disses you for that. you seem to be very hurt by me constantly correcting you. so hard that you look for any "fail" i make so you can shaft me. i really wish i dont have to quote or answer you anymore, but i cant stop. i always get triggered by BS you know..
and yeah well on this specific topic i dont get why you insult me, asking where the numbers come from is a legit question. i somehow feel sorry for you.

OT: thanks for clarification @asnusia

Mon 27 Apr 2020 9:38 PM by Cadebrennus

inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 27 Apr 2020 4:21 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 27 Apr 2020 3:43 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 27 Apr 2020 10:42 AM
where did you get this 18% from?

From a dev post as noted above. However it was deleted. I guess we know where you really PvP, and you can't even solo on the boards.

do you realize that this:

Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 27 Apr 2020 3:41 PM
I deleted your post and the answer from Inoeth to your insult. Pls stop insulting each others. Either try to discuss like normal human beings or dont post here. Thank you for understanding.

was directed to you in the first place?
still you continue with your insults. its not my fault you dont have a clue on so many topics and tend to tell ppl obviously wrong things. hell even gruenesschaf disses you for that. you seem to be very hurt by me constantly correcting you. so hard that you look for any "fail" i make so you can shaft me. i really wish i dont have to quote or answer you anymore, but i cant stop. i always get triggered by BS you know..
and yeah well on this specific topic i dont get why you insult me, asking where the numbers come from is a legit question. i somehow feel sorry for you.

OT: thanks for clarification @asnusia

If you had a legitimate correction then you would have something to your argument, but you don't. Sadly, you're like the kid who talks a big game but grabs the grown-ups to help out when he's in over his head. You've been stalking me from forum post to forum post for a long time, yet can't handle it when you were corrected by me regarding the 18% proc rate, and had that post deleted. Pathetic, just pathetic.

Tue 28 Apr 2020 9:36 AM by Lillebror

Just posting to get a notify if any Update on the matter.

How is player made vs rog when it comes to proc rate? Same?

Tue 28 Apr 2020 1:13 PM by Killaloth

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 28 Apr 2020 9:36 AM
Just posting to get a notification if any Update on the matter.

How is player made vs rog when it comes to proc rate? Same?

Yes, same.

Base chance =
Player made & rog: 15%
Feather items: 18%

Proc chance =
Base chance * weapon speed / 3.5
E.g. Sword of Sorrow 4.3 speed *SHOULD* have 18% * 4.3 / 3.5 = 22.11% chance to proc

The chance to proc *SHOULD* work like crits, i.e. a bag chance that accumulates and resets once the proc/crit occurs.

However this is also bugged for some weapons, the Sword of Sorrow *SHOULD* have a guaranteed proc after 4 swings but as you can see from my chatlog you can easily do 15+ (!) hits in a row with 0 proc. I haven't checked the whole log but between the 8th and 9th endurance drain, there is a 24-hit streak with no proc...

Other slow feather items have a correct proc chance. For instance, Albion feather polearm with damage add is not bugged and correctly procs damage add every 3 swings or so.

Tue 28 Apr 2020 2:02 PM by Lillebror

Thanks for doing this, i got my infs bags full off that offhand and the legion mh that lifetap.

I always had a hunge that offhand rarly procced and if it was worth it to run that slow offhand

Tue 28 Apr 2020 3:12 PM by Killaloth

Lillebror wrote: ↑
Tue 28 Apr 2020 2:02 PM
Thanks for doing this, i got my infs bags full off that offhand and the legion mh that lifetap.

I always had a hunge that offhand rarly procced and if it was worth it to run that slow offhand

You can test lifetap and dds however effects that do not have a direct effect on your target (such as haste proc) are not recorded in the chatlog and counting them without using the chatlog requires lots of creativity.

Thu 28 May 2020 11:11 AM by

gruenesschaf

Quite a few feather items did not have the 18% proc chance that was announced at some point, the update today will change this.

While originally the announcement back in the beta only referred to the epic dungeon chest vs the applied heal proc, that's where the 18% vs 15% comes from, players as well as staff at some point became confused and started answering proc questions with it being 18% for all feather items. The fix will be to just make that actually the case.

Thu 28 May 2020 11:26 AM by Astaa

Nice testing and nice conclusion. Well done Freedomcall and the devs. A good example of the server working!

Sat 30 May 2020 12:06 AM by Killaloth

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 28 May 2020 11:11 AM
Quite a few feather items did not have the 18% proc chance that was announced at some point, the update today will change this.

While originally the announcement back in the beta only referred to the epic dungeon chest vs the applied heal proc, that's where the 18% vs 15% comes from, players as well as staff at some point became confused and started answering proc questions with it being 18% for all feather items. The fix will be to just make that actually the case.

Thanks that's great, it was clear that every item had its own procrate but it's now nice and simple. That took very little time to get fixed, thx again!

Regarding rigs/crafted items, do they all have 15% chance or let's say one 4.2 rog sword can proc more than another?

Absolutely no rush to know that and might as well test myself, super happy with the fix!