archery question - Phoenix Freeshard

People say there was no nerf on archery dam it seems on the question I asked before so new question.

Is there a topic somewhere to explain why archery damage is so damn low versus to old daoc of 2001 when scout on bow were very weak in melee but true killer in range and same for other archer (except ranger always been good in melee too).

Sun 12 Apr 2020 5:15 PM by Cadebrennus

tokuan wrote: ↑
Sun 12 Apr 2020 1:37 PM
People say there was no nerf on archery dam it seems on the question I asked before so new question.

Is there a topic somewhere to explain why archery damage is so damn low versus to old daoc of 2001 when scout on bow were very weak in melee but true killer in range and same for other archer (except ranger always been good in melee too).

I can answer that. Before SI there were one or two buffbotted Scouts that were killing unbuffed players. Then other Archers started doing the same. The whines were very loud so Mythic "balanced" Archery damage by balancing buffed Archers vs unbuffed targets. When everyone got wise and started using buff bots Mythic never re-balanced Archery to consider buffed Archers vs buffed targets. Phoenix devs in all their wisdom decided to go with the post-nerf "balance" late in beta, rather than stick with the original code that was balanced between unbuffed Archers vs unbuffed targets. I called them out on it and they unstickied my Ranger guide as "punishment".

Sun 12 Apr 2020 6:02 PM by gotwqqd

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 12 Apr 2020 5:15 PM
tokuan wrote: ↑
Sun 12 Apr 2020 1:37 PM
People say there was no nerf on archery dam it seems on the question I asked before so new question.

Is there a topic somewhere to explain why archery damage is so damn low versus to old daoc of 2001 when scout on bow were very weak in melee but true killer in range and same for other archer (except ranger always been good in melee too).

I can answer that. Before SI there were one or two buffbotted Scouts that were killing unbuffed players. Then other Archers started doing the same. The whines were very loud so Mythic "balanced" Archery damage by balancing buffed Archers vs unbuffed targets. When everyone got wise and started using buff bots Mythic never re-balanced Archery to consider buffed Archers vs buffed targets. Phoenix devs in all their wisdom decided to go with the post-nerf "balance" late in beta, rather than stick with the original code that was balanced between unbuffed Archers vs unbuffed targets. I called them out on it and they unstickied my Ranger guide as "punishment".

Why call them out?
Maybe I’m wrong , but aren’t you always saying bow damage is more than adequate ?

Sun 12 Apr 2020 9:18 PM by

gruenesschaf

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 12 Apr 2020 5:15 PM
I called them out on it and they unstickied my Ranger guide as "punishment".

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm almost sure it was unstickied after you edited the guide / removed all the text and replaced it with something along the lines of you don't agree with some changes and are hence no longer playing here and the guide also is also not accurate. I also think to remember it having something todo with you being wrong about how cd / dw work wrt the offhand.

Edit:
Found it

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Dec 2018 9:14 PM
Due to the arbitrary nature of changes, mismanagement of code causing a multitude of performance issues, I can no longer endorse this server or its staff. I have taken down the guide due to this reason and because the constant arbitrary changes in the last two weeks makes any advice subject to the latest daily patch. Thank you all for reading and best of luck in the future.

Drunken Ranger out.

Ah right, that was also shortly after you accused us of changing something that caused the client to perform worse to the point of you getting freezes whenever you attacked something or something like that and you weren't happy with my answer of it being client side only and nothing on the server affects that.

Sun 12 Apr 2020 11:30 PM by Kwall0311

GOT HIM

Mon 13 Apr 2020 4:12 AM by Mavella

Mon 13 Apr 2020 8:44 AM by Cadebrennus

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sun 12 Apr 2020 9:18 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 12 Apr 2020 5:15 PM
I called them out on it and they unstickied my Ranger guide as "punishment".

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm almost sure it was unstickied after you edited the guide / removed all the text and replaced it with something along the lines of you don't agree with some changes and are hence no longer playing here and the guide also is also not accurate. I also think to remember it having something todo with you being wrong about how cd / dw work wrt the offhand.

Edit:
Found it

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Dec 2018 9:14 PM
Due to the arbitrary nature of changes, mismanagement of code causing a multitude of performance issues, I can no longer endorse this server or its staff. I have taken down the guide due to this reason and because the constant arbitrary changes in the last two weeks makes any advice subject to the latest daily patch. Thank you all for reading and best of luck in the future.

Drunken Ranger out.

Ah right, that was also shortly after you accused us of changing something that caused the client to perform worse to the point of you getting freezes whenever you attacked something or something like that and you weren't happy with my answer of it being client side only and nothing on the server affects that.

Actually I decided to keep the guide up because of the many players who did, and still do, rely on the guide. They asked me to keep it up. In the end I just added my commentary and left it there. Nice try on the "gotcha" though.

The stutters I was getting when other players were on screen were a separate matter that a few other players were experiencing as well, that were fixed quietly in the next update. You and I had lengthy conversations regarding this on discord. Thanks for fixing it, no thanks for not acknowledging it publicly.

Mon 13 Apr 2020 8:49 AM by Cadebrennus

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sun 12 Apr 2020 6:02 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 12 Apr 2020 5:15 PM
tokuan wrote: ↑
Sun 12 Apr 2020 1:37 PM
People say there was no nerf on archery dam it seems on the question I asked before so new question.

Is there a topic somewhere to explain why archery damage is so damn low versus to old daoc of 2001 when scout on bow were very weak in melee but true killer in range and same for other archer (except ranger always been good in melee too).

I can answer that. Before SI there were one or two buffbotted Scouts that were killing unbuffed players. Then other Archers started doing the same. The whines were very loud so Mythic "balanced" Archery damage by balancing buffed Archers vs unbuffed targets. When everyone got wise and started using buff bots Mythic never re-balanced Archery to consider buffed Archers vs buffed targets. Phoenix devs in all their wisdom decided to go with the post-nerf "balance" late in beta, rather than stick with the original code that was balanced between unbuffed Archers vs unbuffed targets. I called them out on it and they unstickied my Ranger guide as "punishment".
Why call them out?
Maybe I’m wrong , but aren’t you always saying bow damage is more than adequate ?

That's not me. It might be a few other Archer players, and definitely the Archer haters, who are saying that bow damage is adequate. It might be adequate if there weren't so many hard counters to Archery.

Wed 15 Apr 2020 1:08 PM by Horus

There are many threads discussing archery DPS vs HP vs Mitigation options etc as it related to current state on Phoenix. Many good points have been brought up.

There is hope because it was mentioned that it is being reviewed.

It is a bit a disappointing that critical hits were addressed 1st and one of the few RAs (Falcon Eye) that could be used to help bow DPS was nerfed, thus hurting underwhelming bow damage even more, However, at least archery was listed as something that is being reviewed so hopefully something will be addressed. There are possible changes suggested in this thread: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=11179
1) Given that current 52 comp bow spec represents 100%, add a custom multiplier that starts below 100% and scales up to ~115 or 125% based on base bow spec
2) Move volley to 45 or 50 archery, add 1 minute cooldown
3) Penetrating arrow: allow self bt penetration with reduced damage

Potentially a bad idea but potentially exactly what scouts would need:
Add some melee range ability to 50 bow spec with a 10min reuse that applies the static tempest effect on 1 target (3 sec stun + stun immunity reset), maybe restrict crit shot to never work against stunned targets to compensate.

I

Wed 15 Apr 2020 1:44 PM by Cadebrennus

Horus wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Apr 2020 1:08 PM
There are many threads discussing archery DPS vs HP vs Mitigation options etc as it related to current state on Phoenix. Many good points have been brought up.

There is hope because it was mentioned that it is being reviewed.

It is a bit a disappointing that critical hits were addressed 1st and one of the few RAs (Falcon Eye) that could be used to help bow DPS was nerfed, thus hurting underwhelming bow damage even more, However, at least archery was listed as something that is being reviewed so hopefully something will be addressed. There are possible changes suggested in this thread: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=11179
1) Given that current 52 comp bow spec represents 100%, add a custom multiplier that starts below 100% and scales up to ~115 or 125% based on base bow spec
2) Move volley to 45 or 50 archery, add 1 minute cooldown
3) Penetrating arrow: allow self bt penetration with reduced damage

Potentially a bad idea but potentially exactly what scouts would need:
Add some melee range ability to 50 bow spec with a 10min reuse that applies the static tempest effect on 1 target (3 sec stun + stun immunity reset), maybe restrict crit shot to never work against stunned targets to compensate.

I

The thread is locked. I don't know if it's been said before, but allowing Haste to affect Archery speed would be a good, but not OP'ed, Archery boost.

Thu 16 Apr 2020 3:56 AM by gotwqqd

I think archers, particularly the scout having access to dual threat would be good(archery and melee)