Two NS Questions - Phoenix Freeshard

1) What are the poisons I should be running mh/oh generally? I have 5 swappable mainhands so what are also the ones I'd like to have on standby?

2) With swing speed am I trying to get to 1.5 swing speed? Or does that gimp damage?

Thanks so much guys!

Mon 13 Apr 2020 4:14 PM by Celfinna

bump!
Any info would be greatly appreciated

Mon 13 Apr 2020 5:50 PM by Saroi

1, Mainhand: ws/con debuff
Offhand: Disease
Other weapon on 2h slot: Lifebane

This is what I run mainly. In my inventory I have a ton of other weapons with poisons to reapply or do stuff like crippling poisons/endu cost poison vs. scouts mainly since they will always run with the new shield style. With the Endu cost poisoned enemies lose endu while running + 2 slam will get them near ooe. Crippling poison also helps vs. Casters or minstrels who push SOS right after the first attack. As soon as SOS expires they will be slowed by the poison unless they purge it. Basically you need every poison there is except the attack speed reduction(ASR) which is only 20% and does not stack with style ASR.

5 Weapons for swap is pretty low. You should try to get some more weapons. Especially when enemy purges you will have to do atleast ws/con, disease and lifebane. Also there can always be resists of poison. Aim for around 10 weapons in inventory and that is a good start.

2, 1.5 is the dream but it is hard to get without ToA bonuses when you have like 4.1/4.2 Mainhand. Just get the fastest offhand and you will be near it and that is enough. Offhand adding to weaponspeed does not lower your Mainhand damage.

However if you try to get 250 quick cap and also get Master of Arms for attackspeed, it will give you attackspeed at the cost of damage. In my opinion that is definitely not worth it.

Tue 14 Apr 2020 1:07 AM by daytonchambers

Saroi wrote: ↑
Mon 13 Apr 2020 5:50 PM
1, Mainhand: ws/con debuff
Offhand: Disease
Other weapon on 2h slot: Lifebane

1.5 is the dream but it is hard to get without ToA bonuses when you have like 4.1/4.2 Mainhand. Just get the fastest offhand and you will be near it and that is enough. Offhand adding to weaponspeed does not lower your Mainhand damage.

However if you try to get 250 quick cap and also get Master of Arms for attackspeed, it will give you attackspeed at the cost of damage. In my opinion that is definitely not worth it.

Assume that your initial poisons will be purged, either immediately or when you land either CD or an evade or side stun. Use WS/Con and either lifebane , disease, or weakening (to further lower target WS) on your initial burst. Your discretion. But always WS/Con mainhand when you start, as that health loss is immediate even after a purge.

As far as attack speed goes... Get your quickness up but I wouldn't waste RAs on aug quick to hit the 250 soft cap. At most I'd put two points into MoArms but that's about it. Contrary to what Saroi posted the natural haste effect when both weapons swing DOES affect mainhand style damage. ALL haste regardless of source will reduce style damage a small amount, tho the DPS overall is higher. Why? Because white damage, which is the unstyled damage portion of an attack is NOT affected by haste. Period. So only part of the damage is reduced, and that part is only reduced a little bit.

Lastly: Your from-stealth attacks, Backstab 1&2 and Perforate Artery, are special. The weapon speed is not factored into the style damage (which is the bulk of the damage from these attacks), and in the case of a shadowblade the style damage bonus when opening with a 2h weapon is a flat percentage and also not based on swing speed. This is easily tested at a dummy here on Phoenix. What that means is that you can find a fast weapon speed that pairs with your offhand and quickness to swing at the cap speed of 1.5 and use that for your opening shot with very little reduction in damage, and in the case of Perf Artery it will let you use the follow up stun much faster which gives the target less time to react and counter you.

Tue 14 Apr 2020 2:55 AM by Freedomcall

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Tue 14 Apr 2020 1:07 AM
Contrary to what Saroi posted the natural haste effect when both weapons swing DOES affect mainhand style damage.

No, it doesn't.

Tue 14 Apr 2020 8:09 AM by Saroi

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Tue 14 Apr 2020 1:07 AM
As far as attack speed goes... Get your quickness up but I wouldn't waste RAs on aug quick to hit the 250 soft cap. At most I'd put two points into MoArms but that's about it. Contrary to what Saroi posted the natural haste effect when both weapons swing DOES affect mainhand style damage. ALL haste regardless of source will reduce style damage a small amount, tho the DPS overall is higher. Why? Because white damage, which is the unstyled damage portion of an attack is NOT affected by haste. Period. So only part of the damage is reduced, and that part is only reduced a little bit.

Like Freedomcall already wrote it does not. The combined speed of Mainhand + Offhand does not count as a haste effect that reduces your damage. The only thing affected by the speed is the damage from offhand. Slower offhand will make your offhand damage higher but reducing your Attackspeed without changing the damage from your Mainhand.

Maindhand > Offhand. That is why you run a fast offhand, because the little more damage from Offhand is way lower than the damage you gain from hitting more often with the Mainhand.

Tue 14 Apr 2020 11:19 AM by The Skies Asunder

Not exactly on topic, but as Daytonchambers wrote, you should usually assume your initial poisons will be purged. Be ready to immediately swap back to the ws/con, disease, and DoT. I run around 11 weapons for swaps, but I rarely need more than 3 additional ones after the opening set of 3. They will come in handy though, and you should probably have at least one of every poison for rare occasions when you actually need them. Also, to avoid targets purging your poisons you can opt to just not use a stun. I very often skip CD, or the off evade stun just so that the target won't use purge. I usually only use a stun if it know it will be a long fight, or if I am losing and really need it.

Tue 14 Apr 2020 8:25 PM by daytonchambers

Freedomcall wrote:
daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Tue 14 Apr 2020 1:07 AM
Contrary to what Saroi posted the natural haste effect when both weapons swing DOES affect mainhand style damage.

No, it doesn't.

There seems to be some disagreement on style damage being affected by the haste from swinging both weapons.

Pretty sure I already tested this but I'm gonna go attack a dummy to see the results.

EDIT: well sonovabitch I was wrong. The style multiplier did not affect the (+x) to the attack style whatsoever, neither when both weapons swung nor in the following round. My mistake, I swore I tested that when I first started on the server checking for the attack differences between here and Uthgard.

Tue 14 Apr 2020 8:39 PM by daytonchambers

The Skies Asunder wrote: ↑
Tue 14 Apr 2020 11:19 AM
Also, to avoid targets purging your poisons you can opt to just not use a stun. I very often skip CD, or the off evade stun just so that the target won't use purge. I usually only use a stun if it know it will be a long fight, or if I am losing and really need it.

Sneaks have screwed me on more than one occasion doing that, saving their stun and forcing me to make the hard choice of purging before a stun lands or letting the poisons work for their entire duration. Psychological warfare

Thu 16 Apr 2020 1:27 AM by Celfinna

This was perfectly helpful! Thanks a ton guys and happy hunting!!!