For those considering suggestions to alter Minstrels - a comprehensive list of charmed pet changes

vs. original 1.65:

1. Minstrels can no longer use charm while stunned/sitting/LOS'd (https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issues/a1c55854-d872-4092-9e26-d271fe38a3ff)
2. Minstrel pets do not gain level difference damage bonus (https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6668&p=45820&hilit=leroy#p45820)
3. Charmed pets have lowered damage scaling (https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2334&p=13105&hilit=npc#p13105 [1])
4. Charmed pets have lowered swing speed [1]
5. NPCs have lowered swing speed scaling from Qui [1]
6. NPCs have lowered DD damage scaling from Int [1]
7. NPCs have lowered cast speed scaling from Dex [1]
8. NPCs have lowered absorb [1]
9. NPCs have lowered stat-absorb scaling (https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=7768&p=55583&hilit=absorb#p55583)
10. Charmed pets do lower damage per swing [1]
11. Many charmed pets are missing critical abilities, especially key Alb pets (https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issues/7be44f2c-dc63-474b-8f10-f1f826993edb, https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issues/b7f3cd34-9c7c-4e50-8efc-e5ef1e3a06e7, https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issues/93462653-9437-4802-b6f5-701860a65c92)
12. Many pets have lower run speed (see: frost stallion, einhorning)
13. Pet DoTs no longer interrupt every tick (https://playphoenix.online/patch-notes)
14. Charm duration is lower at 10s vs 11s (https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issues/1e77e2db-a5b2-4cc7-bb7a-f620266c0c64 [2])
15. Charm pulse frequency reduced from every 4.75 seconds to 5.0 seconds [2]
16. Pets are still not doing double hits
17. Charm is capped at 5~ per second
18. Pet charm has absolute level cap
19. Many pets have a lower level range than on live.
20. Many mobs have been removed from the frontier.

Thu 6 Jun 2019 8:20 PM by chryso

Yet you keep playing this class...

Thu 6 Jun 2019 8:22 PM by teiloh

chryso wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Jun 2019 8:20 PM
Yet you keep playing this class...

Whoa, it's almost like Speed is an essential function for RvR

Thu 6 Jun 2019 8:32 PM by Dominus

and red mindworms!

Thu 6 Jun 2019 8:33 PM by teiloh

Yep. Windchasers don't heal, mindworms don't stun, gobor wounders don't insta DoT, Arawnite shamness/Pictish druid don't DoT, pictish druid doesn't heal, Empyrean elders heal for half the damage, far dorochas cast mez instead of instas.

Many are also lower level

Thu 6 Jun 2019 10:05 PM by lurker

teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 6 Jun 2019 8:16 PM
17. Charm is capped at 5~ per second

Pretty sure that is 3 per second?

Mon 6 Apr 2020 8:27 PM by teiloh

Relevant to today.

Tue 7 Apr 2020 1:23 PM by Noashakra

Damn all those corrections and nerfs, and it still overperforms. It's proof they need to go babanas with the next nerf !

Wed 8 Apr 2020 6:04 AM by teiloh

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Tue 7 Apr 2020 1:23 PM
Damn all those corrections and nerfs, and it still overperforms. It's proof they need to go babanas with the next nerf !

Notice how nearly everyone making unsubstantiated claims about Minstrel "overperformance" seems to struggle with spelling and syntax? Not saying anything, but it might be related to their ability to understand the game and play their classes properly.

Wed 8 Apr 2020 6:52 AM by Noashakra

teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Apr 2020 6:04 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Tue 7 Apr 2020 1:23 PM
Damn all those corrections and nerfs, and it still overperforms. It's proof they need to go babanas with the next nerf !

Notice how nearly everyone making unsubstantiated claims about Minstrel "overperformance" seems to struggle with spelling and syntax? Not saying anything, but it might be related to their ability to understand the game and play their classes properly.

It's funny man, you are entertaining to read. But I understand, maybe I would do the same if my easy rp class was going to be nerfed. Maybe you will have to actually fight instead of letting your pet do 95% of the job in the future.
Also attacking people who are not native english on their syntax and stuff, when I am quite sure you must speak only one language, it's quite petty

Wed 8 Apr 2020 4:09 PM by hefrocko2

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Apr 2020 6:52 AM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Apr 2020 6:04 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Tue 7 Apr 2020 1:23 PM
Damn all those corrections and nerfs, and it still overperforms. It's proof they need to go babanas with the next nerf !

Notice how nearly everyone making unsubstantiated claims about Minstrel "overperformance" seems to struggle with spelling and syntax? Not saying anything, but it might be related to their ability to understand the game and play their classes properly.

It's funny man, you are entertaining to read. But I understand, maybe I would do the same if my easy rp class was going to be nerfed. Maybe you will have to actually fight instead of letting your pet do 95% of the job in the future.
Also attacking people who are not native english on their syntax and stuff, when I am quite sure you must speak only one language, it's quite petty

It's clear you've never played a minstrel if you think they need to "fight" instead of using their pet... minstrel is in no way, shape, or form a fighting class. You probably play a skald where you can stand toe-to-toe but a minstrel will lose 100% of it's fights if it tries to do so. Minstrels rely on their pet to do the fighting, with all the nerfs to pets, minstrels will definitely be rendered useless. All the nerfs against pets will turn minstrel into nothing more than a speed bot. Any smart player knows how to counter a minstrel, just sprint away and you live. Since pets can't sprint in RVR, that takes away the only chance of minstrel has of killing someone. Don't pretend to know about the class when you've clearly never played one.

Wed 8 Apr 2020 6:25 PM by Noashakra

hefrocko2 wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Apr 2020 4:09 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Apr 2020 6:52 AM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Apr 2020 6:04 AM
Notice how nearly everyone making unsubstantiated claims about Minstrel "overperformance" seems to struggle with spelling and syntax? Not saying anything, but it might be related to their ability to understand the game and play their classes properly.

It's funny man, you are entertaining to read. But I understand, maybe I would do the same if my easy rp class was going to be nerfed. Maybe you will have to actually fight instead of letting your pet do 95% of the job in the future.
Also attacking people who are not native english on their syntax and stuff, when I am quite sure you must speak only one language, it's quite petty

It's clear you've never played a minstrel if you think they need to "fight" instead of using their pet... minstrel is in no way, shape, or form a fighting class. You probably play a skald where you can stand toe-to-toe but a minstrel will lose 100% of it's fights if it tries to do so. Minstrels rely on their pet to do the fighting, with all the nerfs to pets, minstrels will definitely be rendered useless. All the nerfs against pets will turn minstrel into nothing more than a speed bot. Any smart player knows how to counter a minstrel, just sprint away and you live. Since pets can't sprint in RVR, that takes away the only chance of minstrel has of killing someone. Don't pretend to know about the class when you've clearly never played one.

Oh you will be limited to yellow/orange pets, cry me a river. The stallions are super weak !

Wed 8 Apr 2020 6:48 PM by teiloh

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Apr 2020 6:25 PM
Oh you will be limited to yellow/orange pets, cry me a river. The stallions are super weak !

You're still going to get kited to death because of your lack of skill. Skald suits you.

Wed 8 Apr 2020 7:12 PM by Nunki

teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Apr 2020 6:04 AM
Any smart player knows how to counter a minstrel, just sprint away and you live.

You don't understand the irony of your own words, do you?

As if you wouldn't do dmg while circling around.

As if you wouldn't have a stun to let your pet get close again.

As if you couldn't flute mezz the target while running.

As if you wouldn't hit your sidestyle snare from time to time.
Yeah you might risk to waste purge, but thats a good invest for a safe (vs most classes) kill and in most cases you don't even need it.

Any good and honest minstrel player still states that the class is extremely strong (strongest in 1v1), if played properly.

Wed 8 Apr 2020 7:20 PM by Noashakra

On live good ministrels were few because it was high skill high reward.
Here is one of the most played class, and those people are denying that a semi decent player can kill almost everything.
I think it gives them the illusion to be good while they spam their macro.

More than half of the mincer players would do nothing on a live server because they don't have the skill to keep a red pet without their macro.

Wed 8 Apr 2020 7:28 PM by teiloh

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Apr 2020 7:20 PM
More than half of the mincer players would do nothing on a live server because they don't have the skill to keep a red pet without their macro.

Go ahead and play one.

Wed 8 Apr 2020 7:28 PM by teiloh

Nunki wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Apr 2020 7:12 PM
Any good and honest minstrel player still states that the class is extremely strong (strongest in 1v1), if played properly.

It isn't. It's nice for solo because of speed though. Good luck killing a BD or Dark SM that isn't braindead though.

Wed 8 Apr 2020 8:47 PM by Nunki

teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Apr 2020 7:28 PM
Nunki wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Apr 2020 7:12 PM
Any good and honest minstrel player still states that the class is extremely strong (strongest in 1v1), if played properly.

It isn't. It's nice for solo because of speed though. Good luck killing a BD or Dark SM that isn't braindead though.

Wow, you can't kill 2 classes out of 25.

Wed 8 Apr 2020 9:07 PM by hefrocko2

just want to say the devs are pathetic for giving into mob rule due to the noisy few complaining about minstrels. Just because a handful of players are really good at the class doesn't mean it needs to get nerfed. Every class needs to be nerfed if this is the logic you use. All the anti-minstrels posting here have never played one and don't comprehend the difficulty the class entails. Yes, an outstanding minstrel player can beat most classes 1v1, but an above average or less minstrel player is more likely to lose to most average other classes 1v1. This is not the BD or skald we're talking about here, where the most basic noob can kill almost anything with 1 finger. Do not go to extremes because of some people who suck at the game posting on this forum losing to a few good minstrels.

Wed 8 Apr 2020 10:25 PM by Noashakra

hefrocko2 wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Apr 2020 9:07 PM
just want to say the devs are pathetic for giving into mob rule due to the noisy few complaining about minstrels. Just because a handful of players are really good at the class doesn't mean it needs to get nerfed. Every class needs to be nerfed if this is the logic you use. All the anti-minstrels posting here have never played one and don't comprehend the difficulty the class entails. Yes, an outstanding minstrel player can beat most classes 1v1, but an above average or less minstrel player is more likely to lose to most average other classes 1v1. This is not the BD or skald we're talking about here, where the most basic noob can kill almost anything with 1 finger. Do not go to extremes because of some people who suck at the game posting on this forum losing to a few good minstrels.

We don't play the same game. Here ministrel just have to spam a mouse bouton to keep their red pet, and they take way too much time to kill. Why do you think all the top alb groups run with 2 ! They have a SoS always up this way too.
On live, it was a challenge to keep a red pet, and in the middle of the fight, it was really hard to keep it undercontrol. Here any scrub can do that and think they own the game because they play a "high skill" class.

A few good menestrel? It's one of the most popular class at the moment, and for a reason.

Thu 9 Apr 2020 3:46 PM by joshisanonymous

hefrocko2 wrote: ↑
Wed 8 Apr 2020 4:09 PM
It's clear you've never played a minstrel if you think they need to "fight" instead of using their pet... minstrel is in no way, shape, or form a fighting class. You probably play a skald where you can stand toe-to-toe but a minstrel will lose 100% of it's fights if it tries to do so. Minstrels rely on their pet to do the fighting, with all the nerfs to pets, minstrels will definitely be rendered useless. All the nerfs against pets will turn minstrel into nothing more than a speed bot. Any smart player knows how to counter a minstrel, just sprint away and you live. Since pets can't sprint in RVR, that takes away the only chance of minstrel has of killing someone. Don't pretend to know about the class when you've clearly never played one.

LOL Dude... do you actually play a minstrel or has this been a huge troll. We can all just sprint away from a speed5 class that has SoS and can mez and stun on the run, eh? LOL

Thu 9 Apr 2020 4:54 PM by teiloh

joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 3:46 PM
LOL Dude... do you actually play a minstrel or has this been a huge troll. We can all just sprint away from a speed5 class that has SoS and can mez and stun on the run, eh? LOL

He's not wrong. If you're halfway competent on any class that will lose a fight with a Minstrel (tank/healers) you can escape a good % of the time because Minstrel DPS is just a touch above Bard DPS.

Thu 9 Apr 2020 6:14 PM by Nunki

teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 4:54 PM
joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 3:46 PM
LOL Dude... do you actually play a minstrel or has this been a huge troll. We can all just sprint away from a speed5 class that has SoS and can mez and stun on the run, eh? LOL

He's not wrong. If you're halfway competent on any class that will lose a fight with a Minstrel (tank/healers) you can escape a good % of the time because Minstrel DPS is just a touch above Bard DPS.

- You do more damage than a bard. If you ignore stealth you can go for 44 slash. No bard does that.
- You do more damage than a bard, because you have a red pet.
- Your DD's have a higher damage value, too.

Now you might state again that your pet doesn't have speed 1 and you can just sprint away from it BUT:
- You will stun and the pet gets in range for some hits.
- You will flute mezz while running (1500 range, lol) and the pets gets in range for some hits.
- You will use the sidestyle snare and the pet gets in range for some hits.
6-8 hits of your pet together with your DD's are more than enough to get nearly every target below 30% hp.

If you really want to say that you can beat a minstrel by running away, you are a troll. Nothing else.

Mezz the pet? Good joke, you know there is one button to clear the CC.
Mezz the minstrel? Good joke, you know there is one button to send your pet back to hit you out of CC.
Yeah, I could taunt your pet after that, in which case I have aggro of a red pet you won't need to control anymore.
If you are in DF next to a red mob, I have 2 red pets on me in seconds.

Seriously, just stop it Teiloh. You're making a fool of yourself.

Thu 9 Apr 2020 7:03 PM by Noashakra

He is a joke, I start thinking that he doesn't even play the class. He is either a troll, or a scrub that can't do anything without a red pet and who keeps farming blues xpers with it.

Those people are actually clueless about what they speak about. Outrun a ministrel, best joke of 2020 so far.

Thu 9 Apr 2020 7:06 PM by teiloh

Nunki wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 6:14 PM
- You do more damage than a bard. If you ignore stealth you can go for 44 slash. No bard does that.

Which is the difference of all of like 10 DPS considering base WS of the classes,

- Your DD's have a higher damage value, too.

And a higher cooldown. Calculate the difference, it's like 15-20 DPS.

- You will stun and the pet gets in range for some hits.

Too bad you can't stun the Minstrel, and then the Minstrel gets "some hits". Oh wait, you can.

- You will flute mezz while running (1500 range, lol) and the pets gets in range for some hits.

It breaks. Minstrel pet gets a hit, you walk away.

you will use the sidestyle snare and the pet gets in range for some hits.

Yes, it's so easy to side style someone that is running directly away from you. Try a backsnare.

6-8 hits of your pet together with your DD's are more than enough to get nearly every target below 30% hp.

Too bad there are things like archer speed boosts, vanish, IP, insta heals, insta stun, slam.

If you really want to say that you can beat a minstrel by running away, you are a troll. Nothing else.

You can. Get better at this game.

Thu 9 Apr 2020 8:49 PM by Nunki

teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 7:06 PM
Too bad you can't stun the Minstrel, and then the Minstrel gets "some hits". Oh wait, you can.

No, you can't because even a mediocre minstrel will always stay out of attack range, circle jerk around you while your red pet and your DD's do the rest.
Sometimes strafing through you to peel or do some extra damage in case that the class has no instant or anytime stun.
Especially as long as the minstrel has SOS or Purge ready.

teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 7:06 PM
It breaks. Minstrel pet gets a hit, you walk away.

The player gets up to 2 hits by the pet before you are able to sprint out of attack range.
Thats why I wrote 6-8 hits by your pet. In most cases more.

teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 7:06 PM
Yes, it's so easy to side style someone that is running directly away from you. Try a backsnare.

Yes, in most cases it is quite easy. Either because your mezzed, stunned the player or he is trying to work on your pet,
basically due to the fact that you can't just run away from it.

teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 7:06 PM
Too bad there are things like archer speed boosts, vanish, IP, insta heals, insta stun, slam.

- Speed boost: Nonsense as long as you are in flute range (or even closer for DD or stun).
- Vanish: Is an escape ability. Nothing to win a fight with. Every class has to live with it. You are obviously running out of arguments.
- IP: Just prolongues the process. Nobody kills your red pet before you kite him to death. If anybody adds during the process, SoS and Bye Bye.
- Slam: Not if you stay out of combat range, which is the normal case.
- Insta stun: DUDE! Back to stop making a fool out of yourself. Who the hell has INSTANT stun in all three realms? Minstrel and Healer.
If you encounter a Healer it is either in a small men group, against which you shouldn't win by definition (but you do under certain conditions, lol) OR a solo Healer (never seen one in weeks) which can't kill your red pet even if you would only watch him fighting. He won't CC you and run away either, because you know, you can De-Mezz your pet and yourself without using any ability.

teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 7:06 PM
You can. Get better at this game.

Says the minstrel. I bet you run Macros 24/7.

You really make the Top 3 trolls together with Raunz and Cade.

Thu 9 Apr 2020 8:59 PM by teiloh

First you say the Minstrel is side snaring you, then you say they're jerking off out of range with their pet hitting you.

You do realize that every single pet class can do this , right?

Thu 9 Apr 2020 9:28 PM by Nunki

teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 8:59 PM
First you say the Minstrel is side snaring you, then you say they're jerking off out of range with their pet hitting you.

Yes, there are two situations.
You peel if you are not in any risk, because the opponent has no anytime stun, the players is going for your pet or you have SOS/Purge ready.
You are at risk and just circle jerk around your opponent, which most likely will not be able to solo the red pet together with your DD's.

teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 8:59 PM
You do realize that every single pet class can do this , right?

Only Minstrel and BD can do that game, because nearly any other petclass has to remain stationary to do any damage.

No other pet-class has a pet which is as strong as a red Minstrel pet in terms of dmg and durability.

Just admit it.
At the current state Minstrels are a complete trolling class.
Red pets are too strong. I wouldn't even mind to give Minstrels higher melee or DD damage, but the ability to stay out of fight while your red pet does the job ist plain stupid. In addition to that, the Anti-CC pet mechanics are plain stupid and OP.

Thu 9 Apr 2020 9:39 PM by teiloh

Nunki wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 9:28 PM
At the current state Minstrels are a complete trolling class.
Red pets are too strong. I wouldn't even mind to give Minstrels higher melee or DD damage, but the ability to stay out of fight while your red pet does the job ist plain stupid. In addition to that, the Anti-CC pet mechanics are plain stupid and OP.

Red pet damage, if anything, is too weak:

Level 21 BD caster pets, unbuffed, no resist debuff - by comparison

https://pastebin.com/92Vg8eL1
999 damage in 1:09s = 14.5 DPS

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewto ... age#p55070
Ellyll sage damage: 1037 damage in 40 seconds = 25.925 DPS

Here is live, vs a 661 AF target with Croc ring (Sage is unbuffed)
[07:57:11] 9 damage was converted to endurance and power!
[07:57:11] The Ellyll sage hits you for 174 damage.
[07:57:14] 10 damage was converted to endurance and power!
[07:57:14] The Ellyll sage hits you for 195 damage.
[07:57:18] 9 damage was converted to endurance and power!
[07:57:18] The Ellyll sage hits you for 171 damage.
[07:57:23] 9 damage was converted to endurance and power!
[07:57:23] The Ellyll sage hits you for 174 damage.
[07:57:27] 9 damage was converted to endurance and power!
[07:57:27] The Ellyll sage hits you for 171 damage.

= 932 / 16s = 58.22 DPS. Even on live, a level 53 pet does about the same damage as a max level forest heart or Enchanter Pet on Phoenix, without debuffs. I don't have exact numbers, but afaik forest hearts nuke for 120-150 every 2.8ish seconds, and enchanter pets 150-180 every 2.8ish seconds as well (no debuffs)

Conclusion: complaints about Minstrel pet DPS are completely unjustified. Any nerfs done based on such conjecture should be re-evaluated, IMO.

---- Additional data
https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issu ... ef1e3a06e7
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewto ... 320#p95968

Thu 9 Apr 2020 10:19 PM by Noashakra

Why do you compare with live? Everyone runs with decaps and TOA bonus for more HP and dps. They have also uses like the Shade of mist... So they balance things around that... We don't have those things here it makes no sense to compare with live.

The thing with the bd pets, they are blue and grey so you can kill them. You can't do that with a bargheist or a shredder. The Ellyll sage bolts at range AND heals you when you are under 50%. You are comparing apples to pears. You should stop embarrasing yourself. You have no idea about what is balanced or not. You are obviously a troll, or completly blind to reality.

Thu 9 Apr 2020 10:24 PM by Nunki

teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 9:39 PM
Nunki wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 9:28 PM
At the current state Minstrels are a complete trolling class.
Red pets are too strong. I wouldn't even mind to give Minstrels higher melee or DD damage, but the ability to stay out of fight while your red pet does the job ist plain stupid. In addition to that, the Anti-CC pet mechanics are plain stupid and OP.

Red pet damage, if anything, is too weak:

Level 21 BD caster pets, unbuffed, no resist debuff - by comparison

https://pastebin.com/92Vg8eL1
999 damage in 1:09s = 14.5 DPS

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewto ... age#p55070
Ellyll sage damage: 1037 damage in 40 seconds = 25.925 DPS

Here is live, vs a 661 AF target with Croc ring (Sage is unbuffed)
[07:57:11] 9 damage was converted to endurance and power!
[07:57:11] The Ellyll sage hits you for 174 damage.
[07:57:14] 10 damage was converted to endurance and power!
[07:57:14] The Ellyll sage hits you for 195 damage.
[07:57:18] 9 damage was converted to endurance and power!
[07:57:18] The Ellyll sage hits you for 171 damage.
[07:57:23] 9 damage was converted to endurance and power!
[07:57:23] The Ellyll sage hits you for 174 damage.
[07:57:27] 9 damage was converted to endurance and power!
[07:57:27] The Ellyll sage hits you for 171 damage.

= 932 / 16s = 58.22 DPS. Even on live, a level 53 pet does about the same damage as a max level forest heart or Enchanter Pet on Phoenix, without debuffs. I don't have exact numbers, but afaik forest hearts nuke for 120-150 every 2.8ish seconds, and enchanter pets 150-180 every 2.8ish seconds as well (no debuffs)

Conclusion: complaints about Minstrel pet DPS are completely unjustified. Any nerfs done based on such conjecture should be re-evaluated, IMO.

---- Additional data
https://tracker.playphoenix.online/issu ... ef1e3a06e7
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewto ... 320#p95968

BD pets, each for itself, have a fraction of the HP a Barguest has.
It is quite easy to clear them one by one.
In addition to that, the BD itself has no way to Un-CC them.

BD, Animists and Enchanter are cloth wearing classes.
Animist and Enchanter have no instants and both have to remain stationary to do any damage.
Hard to compare any of them tho.

I don't know if you realized it, but this is not live, not even Uthard.
There is no intention to make it Live- or Classic-like.
Many things were changed here, for a good reason.

None of the things you posted or the numerous bugtracker reports you created are a good basis for a conclusion.

Thu 9 Apr 2020 10:52 PM by teiloh

Nunki wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 10:24 PM
BD pets, each for itself, have a fraction of the HP a Barguest has.
It is quite easy to clear them one by one.

Lol, a BD can summon them as fast as you can kill them, but it's easier for them to just unload 500-600 DPS into you

BD, Animists and Enchanter are cloth wearing classes.

And they get 500-600 ranged DPS for it.

None of the things you posted or the numerous bugtracker reports you created are a good basis for a conclusion.

Reports that contain data and logs.

Fri 10 Apr 2020 12:08 AM by Azuell

Where does 500-600 DPS come from? That would mean the caster and pet are hitting for 250-300 each, every second...

Fri 10 Apr 2020 12:29 AM by teiloh

Azuell wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 12:08 AM
Where does 500-600 DPS come from? That would mean the caster and pet are hitting for 250-300 each, every second...

Debuff nuke cast at 1.2x seconds, or BD nuke+lifetap.

Fri 10 Apr 2020 12:55 AM by Riac

Lol this guy is at it again

Fri 10 Apr 2020 2:26 AM by gotwqqd

Nunki wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 6:14 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 4:54 PM
joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 3:46 PM
LOL Dude... do you actually play a minstrel or has this been a huge troll. We can all just sprint away from a speed5 class that has SoS and can mez and stun on the run, eh? LOL

He's not wrong. If you're halfway competent on any class that will lose a fight with a Minstrel (tank/healers) you can escape a good % of the time because Minstrel DPS is just a touch above Bard DPS.
- You do more damage than a bard. If you ignore stealth you can go for 44 slash. No bard does that.
- You do more damage than a bard, because you have a red pet.
- Your DD's have a higher damage value, too.

Now you might state again that your pet doesn't have speed 1 and you can just sprint away from it BUT:
- You will stun and the pet gets in range for some hits.
- You will flute mezz while running (1500 range, lol) and the pets gets in range for some hits.
- You will use the sidestyle snare and the pet gets in range for some hits.
6-8 hits of your pet together with your DD's are more than enough to get nearly every target below 30% hp.

If you really want to say that you can beat a minstrel by running away, you are a troll. Nothing else.

Mezz the pet? Good joke, you know there is one button to clear the CC.
Mezz the minstrel? Good joke, you know there is one button to send your pet back to hit you out of CC.
Yeah, I could taunt your pet after that, in which case I have aggro of a red pet you won't need to control anymore.
If you are in DF next to a red mob, I have 2 red pets on me in seconds.

Seriously, just stop it Teiloh. You're making a fool of yourself.

They’ll just drag along an ice strider interceptor

Fri 10 Apr 2020 6:40 AM by Noashakra

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 12:29 AM
Azuell wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 12:08 AM
Where does 500-600 DPS come from? That would mean the caster and pet are hitting for 250-300 each, every second...

Debuff nuke cast at 1.2x seconds, or BD nuke+lifetap.

HAHAHAHAHAHA
I hate BD, but they are nowhere near this dps in solo. You are really writting things out of your butt.

Fri 10 Apr 2020 9:41 AM by teiloh

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 6:40 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHA
I hate BD, but they are nowhere near this dps in solo. You are really writting things out of your butt.

Guess they're self-buffed:

After spell resists:

70 DPS from LT + nuke
280/1.55 from ST

Add in MOM and WP. Lets say a rank 5ish.

70 + 280/1.55 * 1.1 * 1.15 = 317

Commander pet DPS ~41 (Dark buffs)
Bone pet DPS = 20-25 each

317 + 41 + 40 = 398 for a low rank caster.

Ench Pet Debuffed = 220-280/2.8ish = ~89

Close enough.

Fri 10 Apr 2020 10:39 AM by Noashakra

Lol, the pets heal when you fight solo, they don't DPS, lol.
Also the commander pet is the first thing you focus if you can't PA like a sin, because otherwise the pets will heal, so it has to die quite fast. Surprise, you can't do that on a red pet. Your "on paper" calculation is a joke.

Could you please stop posting? It's funny, you say to people they should play a strel and they write thing without knowing, and yet, you yourself seem to have play in rvr for like 5mn and spend more time on forums giving your opinion about things you have no idea about.

Fri 10 Apr 2020 11:41 AM by Nunki

teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 10:52 PM
Nunki wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 10:24 PM
None of the things you posted or the numerous bugtracker reports you created are a good basis for a conclusion.
Reports that contain data and logs.
Reports and data nobody cares of.
As you may have realized, the GM's commented your reports with "working as intended" over a year ago.

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 9:41 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 6:40 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHA
I hate BD, but they are nowhere near this dps in solo. You are really writting things out of your butt.

Guess they're self-buffed:

After spell resists:

70 DPS from LT + nuke
280/1.55 from ST

Add in MOM and WP. Lets say a rank 5ish.

70 + 280/1.55 * 1.1 * 1.15 = 317

Commander pet DPS ~41 (Dark buffs)
Bone pet DPS = 20-25 each

317 + 41 + 40 = 398 for a low rank caster.

Ench Pet Debuffed = 220-280/2.8ish = ~89

Close enough.
Not even close.
You went from 500-600 DPS to 398 DPS by adding MoM5 and WP5 (out of nowhere) and the assumption that every BD runs with 2 caster pets.
Which isn't always the case. If they run with 1 heal pet, their durability drops harshly.

I bet BD is one of the few classes that you can't just circle yerk without risk, which is the reason that you try to argue based on it.
IF you think BD is too OP, just add some recommendations in a BD-nerf thread.

Seriously, stop making a fool of yourself. Still comparing Cloth Casters with a Chain Hybrids with red pet and heaps of utility.

Fri 10 Apr 2020 12:07 PM by teiloh

Nunki wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 11:41 AM
Seriously, stop making a fool of yourself. Still comparing Cloth Casters with a Chain Hybrids with red pet and heaps of utility.

Stop making a fool of yourself. Stop comparing the 60-70 DPS red pets with cloth casters than can dump out hundreds of DPS while healing themselves.

On the DPS, whoops, I forgot how shitty potion buffs are and assumed +135. But you're the guy claiming Minstrels can side stun from range while jerking off as the pet somehow kills you ... with 200 run speed.

If we just gave Minstrels SM or BD pets you'd cry a river every night.

Fri 10 Apr 2020 12:09 PM by teiloh

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 10:39 AM
Lol, the pets heal when you fight solo, they don't DPS, lol.
Also the commander pet is the first thing you focus if you can't PA like a sin, because otherwise the pets will heal, so it has to die quite fast. Surprise, you can't do that on a red pet. Your "on paper" calculation is a joke.

Could you please stop posting? It's funny, you say to people they should play a strel and they write thing without knowing, and yet, you yourself seem to have play in rvr for like 5mn and spend more time on forums giving your opinion about things you have no idea about.

So you 1v1 the BD pet while the BD lifetaps you and heals his pet ... LOL

Fri 10 Apr 2020 12:26 PM by Noashakra

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 12:09 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 10:39 AM
Lol, the pets heal when you fight solo, they don't DPS, lol.
Also the commander pet is the first thing you focus if you can't PA like a sin, because otherwise the pets will heal, so it has to die quite fast. Surprise, you can't do that on a red pet. Your "on paper" calculation is a joke.

Could you please stop posting? It's funny, you say to people they should play a strel and they write thing without knowing, and yet, you yourself seem to have play in rvr for like 5mn and spend more time on forums giving your opinion about things you have no idea about.

So you 1v1 the BD pet while the BD lifetaps you and heals his pet ... LOL

Man it's clear you have no solo experience. Let the serious people speak.

Fri 10 Apr 2020 12:28 PM by teiloh

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 12:26 PM
Man it's clear you have no solo experience. Let the serious people speak.

Ahahaha

Go ahead, you can fight my BD

Fri 10 Apr 2020 1:33 PM by Nunki

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 12:07 PM
Stop making a fool of yourself. Stop comparing the 60-70 DPS red pets with cloth casters than can dump out hundreds of DPS while healing themselves.

There is only one caster that could do dmg while moving and that is BD. Extremely vulnerable to AE-CC and a totally different class.
I have never seen a BD strafing around its target while the opponent fights against their pets.
Main reason is that BD do not have instant-stun or uninterruptable flute mezz.

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 12:07 PM
But you're the guy claiming Minstrels can side stun from range while jerking off as the pet somehow kills you ... with 200 run speed.

I said, side SNARE not STUN. Minstrel can engage or disengage whenever they want.
Against any non-speed5 class they can simply wait for speed and engange again.

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 12:07 PM
If we just gave Minstrels SM or BD pets you'd cry a river every night.

Not really. SM pet would be an interesting change. Halve the HP of a Barguest and less damage.
You would just run straight away after your SM pet died. Would be nice to watch.

If they take away the whole Minstrel De-CC/Mezz mechanics you can have bd pets, I don't mind.
I would love to see how you heal or recast pets during fight, as you claimed every BD does.

At the current state, I am quite sure that you are either a troll, somebody not playing any other class, not playing at all or someone who is blatantly trying to preserve its "easy to win with barely any risk"-class.
You lost your credibility when you said that everyone could just run away from any Minstrel to survive.

I may try to explain it to you again.
As it seems the vision of the GM's for this server is to make it more casual friendly and overall balanced.
Which is fine and one of the main reasons that the population is so stable.

A Minstrel at the current state is a troll class.
- You can engange what you want and disengage whenever you want.
- You can fight without going into melee range and therefore barely take any risks.
- You can kite nearly anyone to death (as you said several times, you would kite everyone to death even with a yellow pet, lol).
- You have heeps of tools to rupt and CC (inst stun, uninterruptable floot mezz, casted ae mezz, 2x DD).
- You have totally broken Anti-Root/-Mezz pet-mechanics.

The combination of your Anti-CC mechanics and your red pet is plain stupid.
Barely any class can go into a fight vs a medriocre Minstrel (using macros/AHK) with a fair chance to win, while the Minstrel can leave the fight by using 1 RA, which is mostly not even needed.

Most of your arguments can be disproved in one sentence. You even disprove them yourself two posts later.

Don't get me wrong.
I am not talking about a complete nerf of Minstrel Class, it may be interesting to give them more melee potential or something else, after getting rid of the pet-mechanics and high pet level.
At the current state, they are a plaque.

Fri 10 Apr 2020 2:35 PM by teiloh

Nunki wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 1:33 PM

There is only one caster that could do dmg while moving and that is BD. Extremely vulnerable to AE-CC and a totally different class.

Kite and cast. I also run around on my Cab/BD and just have them chase people around slowly killing them because it's funny. Yes, the Minstrel playstyle might make you rage, but any other class could do it.

I said, side SNARE not STUN. Minstrel can engage or disengage whenever they want.

Any stealther can pick their engagements and most non-scout archers can shoot you and escape. What a Minstrel can't do is deal 200-250ish DPS to you while you're trying to escape. So while a Minstrel can speed around picking fights, their DPS is low while they're trying to kill you.

Not really. SM pet would be an interesting change. Halve the HP of a Barguest and less damage. You would just run straight away after your SM pet died. Would be nice to watch.

I doubt the damage difference is as big as you think. SM can self buff its pet and the SM pet procs both a cold DD and lifetap which do a few hundred damage. And don't be brain-dead, a Minstrel with SM pet would just summon another one ... lol

Can't do that with a barguest.

If they take away the whole Minstrel De-CC/Mezz mechanics you can have bd pets, I don't mind.
I would love to see how you heal or recast pets during fight, as you claimed every BD does.

I mean ... between letting someone kill my pet and healing it, I'm going to heal it, unless it's not a solo situation.

its "easy to win with barely any risk"-class.

Aren't you the guy who said top solo kills means everything? So why are there almost 3x as many SBs as Minstrels in top solo kills for their realm, hmm? I guess SBS are "easy to win with barely any risk" as well? Also no one balances off of solo, and these changes once again are not going to affect win rates - they'll just make them slower.

- You can engange what you want and disengage whenever you want.

Skald.

- You can fight without going into melee range and therefore barely take any risks.

Any pet class can do this and archers are even more annoying. So what?

You can kite nearly anyone to death (as you said several times, you would kite everyone to death even with a yellow pet, lol).

Any pet class can do it.

You have heeps of tools to rupt and CC (inst stun, uninterruptable floot mezz, casted ae mezz, 2x DD).

Wait, are you that guy who claimed Minstrel flute mez is uninterruptible? LOL. You have clearly never played a Minstrel.

You have totally broken Anti-Root/-Mezz pet-mechanics.

Nope. It's fine. It's not broken just because you say it is.

The combination of your Anti-CC mechanics and your red pet is plain stupid.

Nope. They're fine.

Barely any class can go into a fight vs a medriocre Minstrel (using macros/AHK) with a fair chance to win, while the Minstrel can leave the fight by using 1 RA, which is mostly not even needed.

LOL. You think Alb doesn't need SOS? Btw, Skalds and Bards also have SoS.

Don't get me wrong.
I am not talking about a complete nerf of Minstrel Class, it may be interesting to give them more melee potential or something else, after getting rid of the pet-mechanics and high pet level.
At the current state, they are a plaque.

Nope, Minstrels are fine. What "more melee potential" do you mean? You'd have to give them better than Skald DPS to make up for Instruments vs. chants, lower hits table and a lack of Det. Sounds like a boring ass class you're proposing.

Fri 10 Apr 2020 2:47 PM by Noashakra

Like someone said about the warden when someone else said it was boring, balacing the game is not about what's fun or not.
We don't care about your fun. I can't wait for the nerf and bath in your ministrels tears QQ.

Fri 10 Apr 2020 2:57 PM by Nunki

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 2:35 PM
Nunki wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 1:33 PM

There is only one caster that could do dmg while moving and that is BD. Extremely vulnerable to AE-CC and a totally different class.

Kite and cast. I also run around on my Cab/BD and just have them chase people around slowly killing them because it's funny. Yes, the Minstrel playstyle might make you rage, but any other class could do it.

I said, side SNARE not STUN. Minstrel can engage or disengage whenever they want.

Any stealther can pick their engagements and most non-scout archers can shoot you and escape. What a Minstrel can't do is deal 200-250ish DPS to you while you're trying to escape. So while a Minstrel can speed around picking fights, their DPS is low while they're trying to kill you.

Not really. SM pet would be an interesting change. Halve the HP of a Barguest and less damage. You would just run straight away after your SM pet died. Would be nice to watch.

I doubt the damage difference is as big as you think. SM can self buff its pet and the SM pet procs both a cold DD and lifetap which do a few hundred damage. And don't be brain-dead, a Minstrel with SM pet would just summon another one ... lol

Can't do that with a barguest.

If they take away the whole Minstrel De-CC/Mezz mechanics you can have bd pets, I don't mind.
I would love to see how you heal or recast pets during fight, as you claimed every BD does.

I mean ... between letting someone kill my pet and healing it, I'm going to heal it, unless it's not a solo situation.

its "easy to win with barely any risk"-class.

Aren't you the guy who said top solo kills means everything? So why are there almost 3x as many SBs as Minstrels in top solo kills for their realm, hmm? I guess SBS are "easy to win with barely any risk" as well? Also no one balances off of solo, and these changes once again are not going to affect win rates - they'll just make them slower.

- You can engange what you want and disengage whenever you want.

Skald.

- You can fight without going into melee range and therefore barely take any risks.

Any pet class can do this and archers are even more annoying. So what?

You can kite nearly anyone to death (as you said several times, you would kite everyone to death even with a yellow pet, lol).

Any pet class can do it.

You have heeps of tools to rupt and CC (inst stun, uninterruptable floot mezz, casted ae mezz, 2x DD).

Wait, are you that guy who claimed Minstrel flute mez is uninterruptible? LOL. You have clearly never played a Minstrel.

You have totally broken Anti-Root/-Mezz pet-mechanics.

Nope. It's fine. It's not broken just because you say it is.

The combination of your Anti-CC mechanics and your red pet is plain stupid.

Nope. They're fine.

Barely any class can go into a fight vs a medriocre Minstrel (using macros/AHK) with a fair chance to win, while the Minstrel can leave the fight by using 1 RA, which is mostly not even needed.

LOL. You think Alb doesn't need SOS? Btw, Skalds and Bards also have SoS.

Don't get me wrong.
I am not talking about a complete nerf of Minstrel Class, it may be interesting to give them more melee potential or something else, after getting rid of the pet-mechanics and high pet level.
At the current state, they are a plaque.

Nope, Minstrels are fine. What "more melee potential" do you mean? You'd have to give them better than Skald DPS to make up for Instruments vs. chants, lower hits table and a lack of Det. Sounds like a boring ass class you're proposing.

You wouldn't recast a pet with 6 sec cast timer during fight. I mean sure, Minstrel could just flute mezz and recast.
Barely anybody else does that in a 1vs1, because they don't have the tools to do so.
Same with healing, you usually have other things to do during a fight.

Many casters have to kite to avoid melee sutations, because you know, they wear cloth and have less hp.

Archer damage on distance is a joke.
Kiting as a Hunter doesn't really work because the pet does halve the damage of a Barguest if not less and a fraction of its HP.
The hunter doesn't do any other damage while kiting. As soon as he tries to do damage he risks a melee situation.

Flute mezz in most cases IS uninterruptable (beneath Stun or mezz).
Usually the mezz is applied even if you rupt during the process and even if not, you just re-pulse it.
It is not that you have to stand still while doing it.

A majority of the community says the Anti-CC-pet mechanics of minstrels are broken, for about 17 years.

Red pets were somehow fine without Macros/AHK, because it was a stressful method with a low success-rate during fights.
It was heavily skill based, which isn't the case anymore. Nowadays everyone can hold a red pet by repetitively hitting one button.
Not even talking about the noobs running around with looped macros.

The problem isn't even SoS.
The problem is that you don't need to get into any risky melee situations and that you can simply run away in most cases, even without SoS.

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 2:35 PM
Aren't you the guy who said top solo kills means everything?

No I am not.

Fri 10 Apr 2020 3:05 PM by Noashakra

Nunki wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 2:57 PM
No I am not.

He can't read or comprehend things correctly, typical case of Dunning–Kruger here.

Fri 10 Apr 2020 3:57 PM by teiloh

Nunki wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 2:57 PM

You wouldn't recast a pet with 6 sec cast timer during fight. I mean sure, Minstrel could just flute mezz and recast.
Barely anybody else does that in a 1vs1, because they don't have the tools to do so.

SMs have mez and root. Sorcs have mez and root. Cabs have root and disease. Mentalists have mez and stun, BDs have root. Druids have root. Yes, an Enchanter might not be able to do it.

Same with healing, you usually have other things to do during a fight.

You're saying in a 1v1 situation you'd attack the pet. Why not heal it?

Many casters have to kite to avoid melee sutations, because you know, they wear cloth and have less hp.

Also because they if they succeed, they get to turn around and nuke you or further CC you.

Archer damage on distance is a joke.

It's 2-3x the damage of an uber red pet, so I don't see why there's a complaint here?

Kiting as a Hunter doesn't really work because the pet does halve the damage of a Barguest if not less and a fraction of its HP.

Summon another one if it dies, and if they stop to fight the pet they get punished a lot more by getting shot.

The hunter doesn't do any other damage while kiting. As soon as he tries to do damage he risks a melee situation.

And a Hunter does like 2-2.5x the Minstrel's melee DPS with 2h bonus, higher weaponskill, higher spec points, and self buffs.

Flute mezz in most cases IS uninterruptable (beneath Stun or mezz).

No, it absolutely is not. Roll a Minstrel and try it. I have no idea where this fiction comes from. If this is the "argument" for nerfing Minstrels, Phoenix devs are really listening to the wrong people.

Usually the mezz is applied even if you rupt during the process and even if not, you just re-pulse it.

Again, you have clearly never played a Minstrel.

A majority of the community says the Anti-CC-pet mechanics of minstrels are broken, for about 17 years.

No they haven't. A majority of whiners have. It's a feature of the class.

Red pets were somehow fine without Macros/AHK, because it was a stressful method with a low success-rate during fights.
It was heavily skill based, which isn't the case anymore. Nowadays everyone can hold a red pet by repetitively hitting one button.
Not even talking about the noobs running around with looped macros.

You realize you can just hold your finger down to spam it before, right? No, the difficulty is in managing the pet tether, retargeting and twisting while using pet charm, not actually holding the pet. People are just more experienced here and realize they need a pet to be competitive.

The problem is that you don't need to get into any risky melee situations and that you can simply run away in most cases, even without SoS.

Skalds.

Fri 10 Apr 2020 4:58 PM by Noashakra

You can interupt the mez if it's in the first half of the cast.
But you clearly have no idea about hunters (and the game as a whole, it's another proof of it), the pet is on a timer. You can't recast it like this...
I am not going to go deeper on all the other absurdities (compare pet dommage and bow dommage, lol).

Fri 10 Apr 2020 5:05 PM by Nunki

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 3:57 PM
Nunki wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 2:57 PM
You wouldn't recast a pet with 6 sec cast timer during fight. I mean sure, Minstrel could just flute mezz and recast.
Barely anybody else does that in a 1vs1, because they don't have the tools to do so.

SMs have mez and root. Sorcs have mez and root. Cabs have root and disease. Mentalists have mez and stun, BDs have root. Druids have root. Yes, an Enchanter might not be able to do it.

Same with healing, you usually have other things to do during a fight.

You're saying in a 1v1 situation you'd attack the pet. Why not heal it?

Many casters have to kite to avoid melee sutations, because you know, they wear cloth and have less hp.

Also because they if they succeed, they get to turn around and nuke you or further CC you.

Archer damage on distance is a joke.

It's 2-3x the damage of an uber red pet, so I don't see why there's a complaint here?

Kiting as a Hunter doesn't really work because the pet does halve the damage of a Barguest if not less and a fraction of its HP.

Summon another one if it dies, and if they stop to fight the pet they get punished a lot more by getting shot.

The hunter doesn't do any other damage while kiting. As soon as he tries to do damage he risks a melee situation.

And a Hunter does like 2-2.5x the Minstrel's melee DPS with 2h bonus, higher weaponskill, higher spec points, and self buffs.

Flute mezz in most cases IS uninterruptable (beneath Stun or mezz).

No, it absolutely is not. Roll a Minstrel and try it. I have no idea where this fiction comes from. If this is the "argument" for nerfing Minstrels, Phoenix devs are really listening to the wrong people.

Usually the mezz is applied even if you rupt during the process and even if not, you just re-pulse it.

Again, you have clearly never played a Minstrel.

A majority of the community says the Anti-CC-pet mechanics of minstrels are broken, for about 17 years.

No they haven't. A majority of whiners have. It's a feature of the class.

Red pets were somehow fine without Macros/AHK, because it was a stressful method with a low success-rate during fights.
It was heavily skill based, which isn't the case anymore. Nowadays everyone can hold a red pet by repetitively hitting one button.
Not even talking about the noobs running around with looped macros.

You realize you can just hold your finger down to spam it before, right? No, the difficulty is in managing the pet tether, retargeting and twisting while using pet charm, not actually holding the pet. People are just more experienced here and realize they need a pet to be competitive.

The problem is that you don't need to get into any risky melee situations and that you can simply run away in most cases, even without SoS.

Skalds.

So many wrong assumptions, I don't even want to comment them in detail anymore.
You obviously haven't played most of the classes or you just try to twist it in a way that helps you to believe that Minstrels aren't OP.

Just a quick question. How much damage does the 32bc hunter pet do, according to your statement? Per hit, please. If you want calculate it in dps afterwards.

Fri 10 Apr 2020 7:07 PM by teiloh

Nunki wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 5:05 PM
Just a quick question. How much damage does the 32bc hunter pet do, according to your statement? Per hit, please. If you want calculate it in dps afterwards.

118 on leather? Minstrel flute mez is not uninterruptible. Stop spreading such ridiculous BS.

Sat 11 Apr 2020 10:27 AM by Nunki

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 7:07 PM
Nunki wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Apr 2020 5:05 PM
Just a quick question. How much damage does the 32bc hunter pet do, according to your statement? Per hit, please. If you want calculate it in dps afterwards.

118 on leather? Minstrel flute mez is not uninterruptible. Stop spreading such ridiculous BS.

My fault on this one.

Flute Mezz is only uninterruptable during the second halve of the animation, therefore prolly for less than 1.5 seconds.

Sat 11 Apr 2020 8:44 PM by teiloh

Nunki wrote: ↑
Sat 11 Apr 2020 10:27 AM
My fault on this one.
Flute Mezz is only uninterruptable during the second halve of the animation, therefore prolly for less than 1.5 seconds.

That's just how spells work, if you interrupt in the later 20 or 25% of the cast it'll go through.

Sun 12 Apr 2020 5:53 PM by joshisanonymous

Hey teiloh, how many side snares does this guy land? https://youtu.be/u3nGNG5qp94

Or maybe singlehandedly keeping smallman groups CC'd and/or snared is only possible on Live after CLs. Ok, check out how this very OF minstrel, without even using a pet, just dances around DDing this tank to death despite the tank simply "sprinting away ftw": https://youtu.be/o2IY6twAI6U?t=183

In fact, I would regularly kill people on my minstrel back around the beginning of NF times by just running back and forth with DDs. They couldn't run away and they couldn't get to me. Worst case scenario, I'd have to side snare them, which was pretty easy to get off because I had tons of tools to help make it happen. When I added pets to the equation (I didn't always because it was a lot more work on Live to hold a pet), it was literally child's play 1v1. About the only issue I ever ran into fighting any class was that it would sometimes take me too long to kill them and I'd get adds. Good thing I had SoS...

I'd love to know who you are in game, but I'm thinking you either don't play or are incredibly bad. Why do you hide your character name(s)?

Sun 12 Apr 2020 11:56 PM by teiloh

joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Sun 12 Apr 2020 5:53 PM
Hey teiloh, how many side snares does this guy land?

While they're ACTIVELY RUNNING AWAY? Zero.

In fact, I would regularly kill people on my minstrel back around the beginning of NF times by just running back and forth with DDs. They couldn't run away and they couldn't get to me. Worst case scenario, I'd have to side snare them, which was pretty easy to get off because I had tons of tools to help make it happen.

Wow, guess what, any class with instant DDs can do this.

When I added pets to the equation (I didn't always because it was a lot more work on Live to hold a pet), it was literally child's play 1v1. About the only issue I ever ran into fighting any class was that it would sometimes take me too long to kill them and I'd get adds. Good thing I had SoS...

Wow, it's almost like Skalds also have SoS.

I'd love to know who you are in game, but I'm thinking you either don't play or are incredibly bad. Why do you hide your character name(s)?

I'm prob a much better player than you, not that it matters.

Mon 13 Apr 2020 1:12 AM by joshisanonymous

teiloh wrote: ↑
Sun 12 Apr 2020 11:56 PM
I'm prob a much better player than you, not that it matters.

Full of crap. Won't even let anyone know who you are in game.

Mon 13 Apr 2020 2:56 AM by teiloh

joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Mon 13 Apr 2020 1:12 AM
Full of crap. Won't even let anyone know who you are in game.

Oh Rhing, I steamrolled you a few times with our 8s. BD players should not be talking about what classes are OP, IMO.

Mon 13 Apr 2020 3:39 PM by joshisanonymous

teiloh wrote: ↑
Mon 13 Apr 2020 2:56 AM
Oh Rhing, I steamrolled you a few times with our 8s. BD players should not be talking about what classes are OP, IMO.

Good job killing a solo with 8.