Top assassin - Phoenix Freeshard

Which of three assassins is strongest on this patch?

NS's have their insta DD's
Infils have higher spec points (2.2 per level)
Shadowblades have 2-handed perfs

I always seems to be the consensus that infiltrators are strongest during the early RR's, but SB's take over at later RR's.

I'm just curious to start a discussion.

Sat 21 Jul 2018 10:26 AM by Azozial

I think at this patch level, the infil or shadowzerk would be the strongest...

Dragonfang 9 sec evade stun, in pierce is a sure win...
Where as the Shadowzerk will out dmg anyone because of the LA...
Tho... When RA's come in to play, and NS attack with Viper, if u dont purge that shit its GG...

So whats best? I have no idea..

Sat 21 Jul 2018 9:30 PM by Thinal

I've seen it mentioned somewhere from the devs that NS magic is dex based. On other servers, it's strength based. Dex based DDs will definitely make the NS more appealing here than on other servers.

Sat 21 Jul 2018 11:56 PM by l00ri

Inf:
+ 2.5 Specpoints
+ 9 Sec. direct After Evadestun
+ 100% Mainhand Dmg
+ Vanish Double PA/Backstab
+ Str/Dex Weapon Choice (With Dex as Primary Attribute)
+ Has the Minstrel in his own Realm

- No 2Hand Weapon
- Offhand Poison
- No Instant Range Rupt except Charges

Nightshade:
+ 5 Sec. direct After Evadestun
+ Avoid Pain
+ Wild Arkana
+ Viper
+ 100% Mainhand Damage
+ Str/Dex Weapon Choice (With Dex as Primary Attribute)
+ Insta Rupt and castable DD

- No 2Hand Weapon
- Offhand Poison

Shadowblade:
+ 2Hand Weapon possible
+ Easier to apply Offhand Poison
+ Can choose Norsebabe

ops:

- No direct After Evadestun
- No active RAs
- No Weapon Choices (and Str. as Tertiary Attribute)
- No 100% Mainhand Damage
- heavily affected by Str/Con Debuff
- lesser Poisons if you dont want to give up Crit-Line and/or Evadestun/Mainhand-Dmg
- No Instant Range Rupt except Charges

Sun 22 Jul 2018 2:44 AM by heardstheword

What does 100% mainhand mean?

Sun 22 Jul 2018 3:30 AM by Thinal

I think he's referring to LA lowering damage on both weapons, where DW/CS keep both at full damage and lower the percent chance for swing of the offhand instead.

It's not that big of a deal, though. PA/BSII work by adding a fixed damage amount to the swing, not a percentage. Same with the 2H perf from the other direction -- you will get a larger perf than 1H, but it's an additive difference, not multiplicative.

As for the infiltrator, they get more spec points and an awesome 9 second stun, but they need to spec pierce all the way to 50 to get that, and get little other benefit from doing so. They're way over cap (51 composite) for melee damage, and likely not using other styles from the pierce line, or are using them instead of the higher growth styles from the CS line.

NS have an advantage in that their after-evade stun is a mere 25 spec. This allows them to go full 50 critical strike for maximum styles in their best growth line, get stealth and envenom to composite 50, and still get a really good CD for decent overall melee. A good RR5 spec is 35 stealth / 35 env / 25 pierce / 50 cs / 30 cd , and it only gets better at higher RR.

SB are probably the best overall, but NS has always been my favorite. You couldn't pay me to play an inf.

Sun 22 Jul 2018 7:24 AM by Cirath

Thinal wrote: ↑
Sun 22 Jul 2018 3:30 AM
NS have an advantage in that their after-evade stun is a mere 25 spec. This allows them to go full 50 critical strike for maximum styles in their best growth line, get stealth and envenom to composite 50, and still get a really good CD for decent overall melee. A good RR5 spec is 35 stealth / 35 env / 25 pierce / 50 cs / 30 cd , and it only gets better at higher RR.

SB are probably the best overall, but NS has always been my favorite. You couldn't pay me to play an inf.

This. At RR5+ the NS really begins to shine. Don't underestimate the utility of the ranged dd's either. I would rather have diamondback than dragonfang for the reasons already stated. Hamstring chain with 50 base CS is simply delicious. The PA's are nice too.

Sun 22 Jul 2018 11:25 AM by l00ri

Thinal wrote: ↑
Sun 22 Jul 2018 3:30 AM
SB are probably the best overall.

Are you serious ?

Sun 22 Jul 2018 1:25 PM by Ragnar

Anyone can tell me how the weapon and bonus against armor are working between SB Infi and NS depending on the fact they use slash / estoc etc ? ... Thx in advance 👍

Mon 23 Jul 2018 9:19 PM by Brokenstring

I had a 50 SB on old live, 39 infi on Bossiney and a 50 NS on a freeshard and I liked the NS the most by far I'd say. That insta DD is a lot of damage when talking about a 1v1 vs a non-tank. I feel that helped me win some close fights before.

Tue 24 Jul 2018 2:24 PM by heardstheword

Brokenstring wrote: ↑
Mon 23 Jul 2018 9:19 PM
I had a 50 SB on old live, 39 infi on Bossiney and a 50 NS on a freeshard and I liked the NS the most by far I'd say. That insta DD is a lot of damage when talking about a 1v1 vs a non-tank. I feel that helped me win some close fights before.

Plus the ability to interrupt a caster/healer/archer at distance is definitely invaluable.

We'll see. I'm about 3 bubbles away from 50 on my SB. Still unsure on how to spec right away: Shadowzerk or 5spec

Sat 28 Jul 2018 6:35 PM by Roor

My question to all these assassins who are using the "standard" old builds is...

What about MoS? You do realize composite stealth does not give you MoS right? Meaning if you have 35 stealth + 15 you do not get max MoS. You have the MoS you get at 35 stealth only.

Surely this makes a difference on this server when choosing an assassin and which is the best. The assassin that can get the most stealth without giving up the most utility will be the best here IMO. I have not dont any tests yet to see which one fits that bill.

As a 50 ranger with 50 stealth I can see and run circles around assassins that have 35 stealth. I roam in DF and have not been perfed once.

So my question is...has anyone of you taken this one fact into account? Or is it just something people dont seem to worry or care about because they think people like me wont go 50 stealth?

Sun 29 Jul 2018 4:14 AM by Geek

Roor wrote: ↑
Sat 28 Jul 2018 6:35 PM
My question to all these assassins who are using the "standard" old builds is...

What about MoS? You do realize composite stealth does not give you MoS right? Meaning if you have 35 stealth + 15 you do not get max MoS. You have the MoS you get at 35 stealth only.

Surely this makes a difference on this server when choosing an assassin and which is the best. The assassin that can get the most stealth without giving up the most utility will be the best here IMO. I have not dont any tests yet to see which one fits that bill.

As a 50 ranger with 50 stealth I can see and run circles around assassins that have 35 stealth. I roam in DF and have not been perfed once.

So my question is...has anyone of you taken this one fact into account? Or is it just something people dont seem to worry or care about because they think people like me wont go 50 stealth?

With 50 stealth, what is the rest of your stats looking like?

Sun 29 Jul 2018 7:13 AM by Cirath

A slight increase in movement speed is not worth sacrificing all the spec points it takes to go beyond standard comp 50 stealth. It might be worth keeping 35 stealth spec post rr5

Sun 5 Aug 2018 11:15 PM by Zansobar

Roor wrote: ↑
Sat 28 Jul 2018 6:35 PM
My question to all these assassins who are using the "standard" old builds is...

What about MoS? You do realize composite stealth does not give you MoS right? Meaning if you have 35 stealth + 15 you do not get max MoS. You have the MoS you get at 35 stealth only.

Surely this makes a difference on this server when choosing an assassin and which is the best. The assassin that can get the most stealth without giving up the most utility will be the best here IMO. I have not dont any tests yet to see which one fits that bill.

As a 50 ranger with 50 stealth I can see and run circles around assassins that have 35 stealth. I roam in DF and have not been perfed once.

So my question is...has anyone of you taken this one fact into account? Or is it just something people dont seem to worry or care about because they think people like me wont go 50 stealth?

As per a dev's response, MOS level ONLY affects stealth movement speed, not detection radius. Detection radius is based on composite stealth (up to 50) which every stealther will have.

Mon 6 Aug 2018 9:34 AM by DarkKnghtZ

If we are talking low RR, out of the box assassin, Inf is king.

if we are talking about high rr, NS will trounce either. Viper and avoid pain are obscenely OP and together you are not going to kill a NS solo.

Assumed RAs from both sides: purge, mop, dodger

Mon 6 Aug 2018 12:36 PM by heardstheword

Poor SB. Bottom of the barrel at all times.

Tue 14 Aug 2018 7:54 AM by Gohanssj

Lies SBs are the best. I am the best
#playinginfonlive
All RAs up NS best, RAs down inf best. As most my fights already are 1v2 or 1 right after another I'm going to accept the odd loss to a NS and go for overall effectiveness. 9 sec stun with purge down is a win v almost anything.

That said, as poor as they are I really like my SB atm

Tue 14 Aug 2018 1:40 PM by Cirath

The person playing the character really matters more than anything. There are good infs, sb, and ns out there. That said, I still prefer NS because of the RA's, utility of ranged/insta dds, ability to go high CS and keep evade stun, and the abundance of enimies when playing Hib. I will say I have more trouble witb infs typically than sb's, probably due to armor table resists and DF if purge is down. But they could say the same about diamondback.

Tue 14 Aug 2018 2:25 PM by heardstheword

Cirath wrote: ↑
Tue 14 Aug 2018 1:40 PM
The person playing the character really matters more than anything. There are good infs, sb, and ns out there. That said, I still prefer NS because of the RA's, utility of ranged/insta dds, ability to go high CS and keep evade stun, and the abundance of enimies when playing Hib. I will say I have more trouble witb infs typically than sb's, probably due to armor table resists and DF if purge is down. But they could say the same about diamondback.

Plus NS's have the advantage of not going against casters that have a free 9-sec base stun in their arsenal. I'm always fearful of my CreepingDeath stun missing a hib caster.

Tue 14 Aug 2018 4:21 PM by Cirath

heardstheword wrote: ↑
Tue 14 Aug 2018 2:25 PM
Cirath wrote: ↑
Tue 14 Aug 2018 1:40 PM
Plus NS's have the advantage of not going against casters that have a free 9-sec base stun in their arsenal. I'm always fearful of my CreepingDeath stun missing a hib caster.

Yes, but just about all casters have some form of quickcast CC. And no caster should be able to get a qc stun off on you before your CD lands, unless you are using a 2h weapon. Then that is your mistake. If you land PA, you need to worry about slam or insta cc before CD lands. Even a purge of CD and then QC is usually too late for the caster to survive.

Instead NS's have to deal with insta stun/mez from minstrel/skald/healer/cleric, and qc mez from sorc, theurg, SM, ichor from shammy. Honestly an infs biggest advantage is probably the ability to group with, and not have to fight minstrels.

Sun 19 Aug 2018 1:17 AM by ShutenGlooten

heardstheword wrote: ↑
Tue 14 Aug 2018 2:25 PM
Cirath wrote: ↑
Tue 14 Aug 2018 1:40 PM
The person playing the character really matters more than anything. There are good infs, sb, and ns out there. That said, I still prefer NS because of the RA's, utility of ranged/insta dds, ability to go high CS and keep evade stun, and the abundance of enimies when playing Hib. I will say I have more trouble witb infs typically than sb's, probably due to armor table resists and DF if purge is down. But they could say the same about diamondback.

Plus NS's have the advantage of not going against casters that have a free 9-sec base stun in their arsenal. I'm always fearful of my CreepingDeath stun missing a hib caster.

What do the assassins rr5 look like at this patch lvl?

Sun 19 Aug 2018 6:50 AM by Cirath

There are no RR5 abilities. At least I didn't get one.

Sun 19 Aug 2018 7:24 AM by rubaduck

On Live I played infil, and it felt like a breeze through low realm ranks. However NS was always my bane and after RR7 I really felt the competition. If the SB got the jump with a 2H PA I usually had to blow all my CDs and hope for good timing on evades.

NS is the king at high RR for sure, while SB will be the opportunist and will most likely win the fight if it gets the jump. Infil is the jack of all trades and will be strong in most situations, and very strong against other stealthers without any cooldowns.

Mon 20 Aug 2018 1:38 AM by ShutenGlooten

Cirath wrote: ↑
Sun 19 Aug 2018 6:50 AM
There are no RR5 abilities. At least I didn't get one.

Thanks, didnt know this.

Mon 27 Aug 2018 12:35 PM by Xtortionist

Ragnar wrote: ↑
Sun 22 Jul 2018 1:25 PM
Anyone can tell me how the weapon and bonus against armor are working between SB Infi and NS depending on the fact they use slash / estoc etc ? ... Thx in advance 👍

As far as I know the weapon damage tables for assassins looks like this:

Assasin Trust Slash Crush
Nightshade Neutral resist Weak
Infil Resist Neutral Weak
ShadowB Resist Weak Neutral

Mon 27 Aug 2018 12:43 PM by heardstheword

Xtortionist wrote: ↑
Mon 27 Aug 2018 12:35 PM
As far as I know the weapon damage tables for assassins looks like this:

Assasin Trust Slash Crush
Nightshade Neutral resist Weak
Infil Resist Neutral Weak
ShadowB Resist Weak Neutral

Dang, didn't realize SB was the only assassin at a disadvantage against other assassins. Luckily most NS/Inf go thrust.

Mon 27 Aug 2018 1:01 PM by Cirath

heardstheword wrote: ↑
Mon 27 Aug 2018 12:43 PM
Dang, didn't realize SB was the only assassin at a disadvantage against other assassins. Luckily most NS/Inf go thrust.

While true if NS/inf spec blades or slash, very rarely did you ever see this in practice, as pierce was generally just better with str/dex based WS and evade reactionary stuns . Although with Phoenix's questionable change to reactionary rules preventing the use of hamstring after an evade stun, the usefullness of the Nightshade evade stun is SIGNIFICANTLY reduced. With as simple as it is to land positionals on Phoenix with the borky hit boxxes, the celtic dual side stun is as good as, if not superior. Maybe you will see more nightshades go blades now, although pierce is still superior for the majority of visible targets. I suspect most infs will stay thrust, as a 9 second stun from dragonfang is as always, extremely powerfull.

Typically, nightshades are at a disadvantage vs Infs, and equal to SB, Infs are at an advantage vs NS disadvantage vs SB, and SB are at an advantage vs Infs, and equal Vs NS. So really, SB have the BEST armor/damage resist scenario of all three assasins while NS have the worst. Assuming inf and ns are thrust/pierce which 90% are.

Wed 29 Aug 2018 2:43 PM by heardstheword

What does NS/Inf offhand hit chance look like? Most specs that I've seen have pretty low CD or DW.

Wed 29 Aug 2018 4:00 PM by Cadebrennus

heardstheword wrote: ↑
Wed 29 Aug 2018 2:43 PM
What does NS/Inf offhand hit chance look like? Most specs that I've seen have pretty low CD or DW.

Check out this calculator to see what the chances are;

http://camelot.allakhazam.com/rangerspec.html

There's also a raw list here for spec+item+RR that go above 50

http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/la_cd_dw_mechanics.html

Thu 30 Aug 2018 1:52 AM by Cirath

Most ns/inf will be running Celtic dual or dual wield with a base spec in the 20-30 range. Typically 45-55% chance for offhand swing before any dualist reflexes. Remember this is just a chance to swing, it's common to go 3, 4, 5, rounds without an offhand swing. My personal record was 8 combat rounds in a row with no offhand swings at 29+17 Celtic dual with dualist reflexes II on Uthgard.