[Q2 2020] "Group" Buffs - Phoenix Freeshard

This change is part of a series of changes: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=99782

As a QoL change, whenever you cast a timed buff with a duration between 5 and 15 minutes on yourself all your group members in a radius of 1000 will also receive this buff. This includes all directly owned pets and their sub pets, however, it does not include fnf pets (animist fnf turrets, theurgist pets).

Examples of what is affected: Non conc Pom, Non conc Damage Add / Damage Shield, Absorb (in case of animist the long duration one only)

EDIT:
Changed from buff players that are grouped with your target within 500 locs to act like a group buff with 1000 range when you target yourself.

Mon 30 Mar 2020 4:16 PM by romulus

Hi!
Interesting. Am I right in thinking that Cleric heal reactive and friar heal effect buffs will work like this as well? Are these limited to only buffs that can be cast on others, or will the list also include traditionally self-only buffs (ala friar, or ranger, etc)?
:hugs:

Mon 30 Mar 2020 4:18 PM by

gruenesschaf

romulus wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 4:16 PM
Hi!
Interesting. Am I right in thinking that Cleric heal reactive and friar heal effect buffs will work like this as well? Are these limited to only buffs that can be cast on others, or will the list also include traditionally self-only buffs (ala friar, or ranger, etc)?
:hugs:

Only timed buffs that delve "Realm" as target, aka targeted timed buffs that can already be buffed on others. This means neither "self" nor "group" would be affected by this.

Mon 30 Mar 2020 4:38 PM by Isavyr

Nice change.

Mon 30 Mar 2020 6:05 PM by rogueyak

So targeting someone hitting a keep/tower door with a damage add will buff everyone within 500 radius of the target? or is it from the caster?

Mon 30 Mar 2020 6:10 PM by

Uthred

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 3:54 PM
... As a QoL change, whenever you cast a timed buff with a duration of more than 5 minutes on a character every group member of that character in a radius of 500 will also receive this buff, pets still have to be targeted individually and are not buffed via the group buff component...

Mon 30 Mar 2020 7:37 PM by gotwqqd

rogueyak wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 6:05 PM
So targeting someone hitting a keep/tower door with a damage add will buff everyone within 500 radius of the target? or is it from the caster?

Radius of the target, but ONLY it’s group members

Mon 30 Mar 2020 8:02 PM by RMC_Ethlanne

this is a nice change, theurgists salute u sirs :p

Mon 30 Mar 2020 8:04 PM by Cotea

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 3:54 PM
This works on buffing your own group as well as some group you happen to run by.

gotwqqd wrote:
rogueyak wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 6:05 PM
So targeting someone hitting a keep/tower door with a damage add will buff everyone within 500 radius of the target? or is it from the caster?

Radius of the target, but ONLY it’s group members

Incorrect, you can buff other group members you happen to be near...

Mon 30 Mar 2020 8:19 PM by

gruenesschaf

Cotea wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 8:04 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 3:54 PM
This works on buffing your own group as well as some group you happen to run by.

gotwqqd wrote:
rogueyak wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 6:05 PM
So targeting someone hitting a keep/tower door with a damage add will buff everyone within 500 radius of the target? or is it from the caster?

Radius of the target, but ONLY it’s group members

Incorrect, you can buff other group members you happen to be near...

Since you cannot cast while moving, the happen to run by comment was primarily about low level groups you happen to run by to buff them explicitly. Like I wrote in the initial post :

whenever you cast a timed buff ... on a character every group member of that character in a radius of 500

Mon 30 Mar 2020 10:07 PM by easytoremember

Is Realm Target Bladeturn going to be excluded from this?

Mon 30 Mar 2020 10:55 PM by Jingo NZ

Great convenience for theurg da and haste. Thanks!

Tue 31 Mar 2020 12:05 AM by

gruenesschaf

easytoremember wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 10:07 PM
Is Realm Target Bladeturn going to be excluded from this?

yes, this is literally just meant as a qol to decrease rebuff times and not supposed to generate some weird meta, that's also why pets are excluded to avoid the possibility of 10s of theurgist pets instantly getting damage add.

Tue 31 Mar 2020 2:21 AM by Cotea

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 8:19 PM
Cotea wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 8:04 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 30 Mar 2020 3:54 PM
This works on buffing your own group as well as some group you happen to run by.

gotwqqd wrote: Radius of the target, but ONLY it’s group members

Incorrect, you can buff other group members you happen to be near...

Since you cannot cast while moving, the happen to run by comment was primarily about low level groups you happen to run by to buff them explicitly. Like I wrote in the initial post :

whenever you cast a timed buff ... on a character every group member of that character in a radius of 500

Yes 1 person asked if it could be used at a keep gate to buff all there.... So in what to ur saying it seems my original comment still stands correct...

Tue 31 Mar 2020 8:42 AM by MacPrior

Finally good news! Good idea. As a theurgist its just a pain to rebuff each stop a tank group and been always out of power after.

Tue 31 Mar 2020 9:28 AM by Ylai

I get the „pain“ of theurgs etc. but why don’t you limit it to the buffers own group? Or just introduce the group Pom, group dmg add etc. that they have on live servers. I think it would be kinda OP if one theu could buff a whole Zerg within 10 seconds. Also you prevent abuse the usage for (stealth) groups to have one buffer standing around that buffing a whole group

As we‘re talking about QoL changes, sorry for the whataboutism, have you thought about reducing mana costs of wardens self buffs? I have to use MCL + a ManaPot after doing those and GRP bubble + Resis

Tue 31 Mar 2020 11:09 AM by MacPrior

Ylai wrote: ↑
Tue 31 Mar 2020 9:28 AM
I get the „pain“ of theurgs etc. but why don’t you limit it to the buffers own group?

THIS! Simply well tasted solution!

Tue 31 Mar 2020 1:18 PM by Boulvejak

This is a really good idea. Thanks for looking for small ways to make the game more enjoyable. They matter too, often as much as the big changes.

Tue 31 Mar 2020 5:26 PM by Valaraukar

If I understood it right this change won't affect non-timed buffs, like pom, cost, dex, str and so on? These buffs do not expire with time, only with death of the buffer or, obviously, the buffed toon. Is it correct?

Tue 31 Mar 2020 6:25 PM by sylvynyr

Ylai wrote: ↑
Tue 31 Mar 2020 9:28 AM
I get the „pain“ of theurgs etc. but why don’t you limit it to the buffers own group? Or just introduce the group Pom, group dmg add etc. that they have on live servers. I think it would be kinda OP if one theu could buff a whole Zerg within 10 seconds. Also you prevent abuse the usage for (stealth) groups to have one buffer standing around that buffing a whole group

I'm wondering something similar... is it really necessary to add the "other group" component especially in context of, but not limited to, Zergs and Stealther warfare?

May have missed something here or there, but it seems a bit skewed to Albion at first glance.

Casted/Timed Realm Buff Effects

Mana Regen
Alb - Sorc (Mind spec - almost always)
Hib - Mentalist (Mana spec - sometimes RvR, very likely PvE)
Mid - NONE

Damage Add
Alb - Wizard/Theurgist (baseline)
Hib - Enchanter (Enchantments spec - almost never)
Mid - Runemaster (Darkness spec - likely), Shaman <50% equivalent to others (Augmentation spec - almost always)

Damage Shield
Alb - Wizard (baseline)
Hib - Animist/Eldritch/Enchanter/Mentalist/Valewalker (baseline)
Mid - Spiritmaster (Summoning spec - almost never)

Haste
Alb - Theurgist (baseline)
Hib - NONE
Mid - NONE

ABS
Alb - Necromancer (Deathsight spec - almost always)
Hib - Animist (Verdant spec - not likely RvR, very likely PvE)
Mid - Bonedancer (Suppression spec - very likely)

Wed 1 Apr 2020 8:36 PM by joshisanonymous

This is very nice for my supp BD. In PUGs, I hardly ever have a chance to toss the absorption buff around because of power and time concerns. On top of that, it only lasts 10 minutes, so it needs to be redone more often than most buffs. With this change, I'll always be able to keep up one of the aspects of this spec that makes them worthwhile in groups.

I do wonder about the "other group" component, too, though. I feel like this could have some unintended consequences that would lead to it being about more than just QoL.

Thu 2 Apr 2020 5:20 AM by gotwqqd

joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Wed 1 Apr 2020 8:36 PM
This is very nice for my supp BD. In PUGs, I hardly ever have a chance to toss the absorption buff around because of power and time concerns. On top of that, it only lasts 10 minutes, so it needs to be redone more often than most buffs. With this change, I'll always be able to keep up one of the aspects of this spec that makes them worthwhile in groups.

I do wonder about the "other group" component, too, though. I feel like this could have some unintended consequences that would lead to it being about more than just QoL.

They need make all timed buffs 20-24 min

Thu 2 Apr 2020 7:32 AM by Gildar

I agree with this change, but only on condition that it only applies to members of the buffer group

it doesn't make sense that it applies to all characters indiscriminately (i.e. even outside the buffer group), because so a single buffer could buff the entire zerg

reducing the buff-time is a good idea, but if you allow to extend the buffs even outside the group you change the game mechanics and this is not good

now the game has reached a kind of balance, don't break the toy pls

Imho

Thu 2 Apr 2020 8:21 AM by Cadebrennus

Gildar wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Apr 2020 7:32 AM
now the game has reached a kind of balance, don't break the toy pls

Imho

They just can't help themselves.

Thu 2 Apr 2020 11:06 PM by Strikejk

If it is possible codewise can you do an exception for the necro-pet?
As it is basically replacing the player it should benefit from the group buffs aswell, it seems rather cumbersome having to extra-buff only necros everytime.

I understand why you don't want to auto-apply it to all pets but those reasons don't apply to the necro pet. But I understand if its not feasible from a code perspective to do this.
But if it is possible without too much work please, please include the necro pet into the group buffs!

Fri 3 Apr 2020 1:41 AM by

gruenesschaf

While most complaints are basically done by people who haven't really read the scope of change / how exactly it works, it'll be revised to work more like the group buffs on live (initial post is also updated) to make it easier to grasp.

That means specifically all those buffs that have target = realm as their delve and a duration between 5 and 15 minutes when cast on the caster will buff all group members, including pets (but not including fnf pets like the fnf animist turrets or theurgist air pets, just directly owned pets and their sub pets).

Fri 3 Apr 2020 5:44 AM by MacPrior

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 1:41 AM
While most complaints are basically done by people who haven't really read the scope of change / how exactly it works, it'll be revised to work more like the group buffs on live (initial post is also updated) to make it easier to grasp.

That means specifically all those buffs that have target = realm as their delve and a duration between 5 and 15 minutes when cast on the caster will buff all group members, including pets (but not including fnf pets like the fnf animist turrets or theurgist air pets, just directly owned pets and their sub pets).

I hope, these affects the resi buffs and the theurgist lvl 10 Skin of Sand (realm targeted bubble) as well.
Could we become a free respec with this patch please.

Fri 3 Apr 2020 1:54 PM by Parole

Gildar wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Apr 2020 7:32 AM
I agree with this change, but only on condition that it only applies to members of the buffer group

it doesn't make sense that it applies to all characters indiscriminately (i.e. even outside the buffer group), because so a single buffer could buff the entire zerg

reducing the buff-time is a good idea, but if you allow to extend the buffs even outside the group you change the game mechanics and this is not good

now the game has reached a kind of balance, don't break the toy pls

Imho

What is the reasoning for you not wanting to buff outside of your group? How/Why would buffing your realmmates be a bad thing?

Fri 3 Apr 2020 6:37 PM by sylvynyr

Parole wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 1:54 PM
What is the reasoning for you not wanting to buff outside of your group? How/Why would buffing your realmmates be a bad thing?

Because it could/would have an (enormous) effect on the meta.

For example:
Albion gets 10dps Damage Add as baseline on both Wizards and Theurgists.
Hibernia gets up to 10dps Damage Add as a never used in RvR specline on Enchanters (Enchantments).
Midgard gets up to 11.1dps Damage Add as a typically used RvR specline on Runemasters (Darkness)

Albion zergs would be fully running with +10dps melee
Midgard zergs would be likely running with (likely) +9dps melee
Hibernia would most likely be running without.

Then also consider Damage Shield, POM, Haste, ABS Buffs.
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=100783#p100783

Although I'm not sure what is meant by "a timed buff with a duration between 5 and 15 minutes". Everything that is Realm based appears to be 20 minute duration; I'm sure I'm missing something here. However the updated design (Realm based timed buffs casted on yourself grants the buff to all groupmates within 1000 range) seems to be much more suited as a QoL adjustment.

Fri 3 Apr 2020 6:46 PM by Blitze

It would be great if during this change, you guys considered making Friars self end redux (And possibly absorb) a group buff!

If this turns out to be OP (which I would bet my house it won’t) then Revert it

Sat 4 Apr 2020 5:48 AM by Azrael

Parole wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 1:54 PM
What is the reasoning for you not wanting to buff outside of your group? How/Why would buffing your realmmates be a bad thing?

Because people (like you?) would probably heavily abuse it.

Blitze wrote: (And possibly absorb) a group buff!

lul?
Can I have your house now plz?

Sat 4 Apr 2020 8:00 AM by Blitze

I don’t have a house.

Sat 4 Apr 2020 10:43 AM by Freedomcall

MacPrior wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 5:44 AM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 3 Apr 2020 1:41 AM
While most complaints are basically done by people who haven't really read the scope of change / how exactly it works, it'll be revised to work more like the group buffs on live (initial post is also updated) to make it easier to grasp.

That means specifically all those buffs that have target = realm as their delve and a duration between 5 and 15 minutes when cast on the caster will buff all group members, including pets (but not including fnf pets like the fnf animist turrets or theurgist air pets, just directly owned pets and their sub pets).

I hope, these affects the resi buffs and the theurgist lvl 10 Skin of Sand (realm targeted bubble) as well.
Could we become a free respec with this patch please.

Resist buffs are already grp targetted spells and theurgist has lvl18 grp bladeturns.
I'm not sure what you were trying to say.

Sun 5 Apr 2020 1:15 AM by Quik

Necro spell Longing for Death is not affecting everyone when cast...shouldn't it be?

Mon 6 Apr 2020 12:36 PM by MacPrior

Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Sat 4 Apr 2020 10:43 AM
Resist buffs are already grp targetted spells and theurgist has lvl18 grp bladeturns.
I'm not sure what you were trying to say.

Spec only 10 in earth and use single realm targeted bubble to buff the group?

Mon 6 Apr 2020 3:09 PM by Freedomcall

MacPrior wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 12:36 PM
Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Sat 4 Apr 2020 10:43 AM
Resist buffs are already grp targetted spells and theurgist has lvl18 grp bladeturns.
I'm not sure what you were trying to say.

Spec only 10 in earth and use single realm targeted bubble to buff the group?

That is another issue then.
This post is about qol change and helping players not to spend time casting same spell 8 times,
not to enable you to use lvl10 spell like lvl18 one.

Mon 6 Apr 2020 5:13 PM by sylvynyr

MacPrior wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 12:36 PM
Freedomcall wrote: ↑
Sat 4 Apr 2020 10:43 AM
Resist buffs are already grp targetted spells and theurgist has lvl18 grp bladeturns.
I'm not sure what you were trying to say.

Spec only 10 in earth and use single realm targeted bubble to buff the group?

This was already answered:
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=100683#p100683