Nightshade CELTE - Phoenix Freeshard

When can be Celte with my NS ? for balanced with viking SB and briton infiltrator ?

Thank you Phoenix for server

Sat 29 Jun 2019 3:45 PM by Turano

Luri and elf only

Sat 29 Jun 2019 4:15 PM by Mavella

Maybe when there isn't a 20% resist advantage for bladeshades/rangers vs mid leather.

Sat 29 Jun 2019 4:58 PM by Cadebrennus

Mavella wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Jun 2019 4:15 PM
Maybe when there isn't a 20% resist advantage for bladeshades/rangers vs mid leather.

Mid will still have the melee WS advantage on SB and Hunter.

Sat 29 Jun 2019 5:16 PM by Mavella

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Jun 2019 4:58 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Jun 2019 4:15 PM
Maybe when there isn't a 20% resist advantage for bladeshades/rangers vs mid leather.

Mid will still have the melee WS advantage on SB and Hunter.

Well I see very similar evade rates vs bladeshades when I presumably have a significant strength advantage. I'm gonna call 1-3% evade rate difference in the best of times small potatoes compared to 20% damage difference. I've gotten my ass handed to me by bladeshades 2+ RRs below me purely due to the damage difference.

Sat 29 Jun 2019 7:34 PM by Cadebrennus

Mavella wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Jun 2019 5:16 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Jun 2019 4:58 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Jun 2019 4:15 PM
Maybe when there isn't a 20% resist advantage for bladeshades/rangers vs mid leather.

Mid will still have the melee WS advantage on SB and Hunter.

Well I see very similar evade rates vs bladeshades when I presumably have a significant strength advantage. I'm gonna call 1-3% evade rate difference in the best of times small potatoes compared to 20% damage difference. I've gotten my ass handed to me by bladeshades 2+ RRs below me purely due to the damage difference.

WS isn't just your ability to hit, it affects your damage. I play Alb now and all Albs are slash neutral. A Norse Vs an Elf or Keen attacking me with Slash weapons is a night and day difference in terms of raw damage, both styled and unstyled. If they happen to get the Perf off before I can react I can live through an NS's initial chain, but it's not the same Vs an SB. If I spot them and it's just pure melee, the SB is always a tougher fight because of how hard they hit.

Sat 29 Jun 2019 9:37 PM by Mavella

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Jun 2019 7:34 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Jun 2019 5:16 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Jun 2019 4:58 PM
Mid will still have the melee WS advantage on SB and Hunter.

Well I see very similar evade rates vs bladeshades when I presumably have a significant strength advantage. I'm gonna call 1-3% evade rate difference in the best of times small potatoes compared to 20% damage difference. I've gotten my ass handed to me by bladeshades 2+ RRs below me purely due to the damage difference.

WS isn't just your ability to hit, it affects your damage. I play Alb now and all Albs are slash neutral. A Norse Vs an Elf or Keen attacking me with Slash weapons is a night and day difference in terms of raw damage, both styled and unstyled. If they happen to get the Perf off before I can react I can live through an NS's initial chain, but it's not the same Vs an SB. If I spot them and it's just pure melee, the SB is always a tougher fight because of how hard they hit.

Considering everything else is equal between sins (rough expected spec, damage table, AF, absorb, +15 str at start) the only impact on both parties Weaponskill is going to be the 30 strength between races. In no world is 30 strength going to be anywhere close to a 20% damage/resist difference, sorry. Not to mention the NS insta DD basically evens out the base HP difference with the click of a button.

Sun 30 Jun 2019 12:05 AM by Saroi

Mavella wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Jun 2019 9:37 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Jun 2019 7:34 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Jun 2019 5:16 PM
Well I see very similar evade rates vs bladeshades when I presumably have a significant strength advantage. I'm gonna call 1-3% evade rate difference in the best of times small potatoes compared to 20% damage difference. I've gotten my ass handed to me by bladeshades 2+ RRs below me purely due to the damage difference.

WS isn't just your ability to hit, it affects your damage. I play Alb now and all Albs are slash neutral. A Norse Vs an Elf or Keen attacking me with Slash weapons is a night and day difference in terms of raw damage, both styled and unstyled. If they happen to get the Perf off before I can react I can live through an NS's initial chain, but it's not the same Vs an SB. If I spot them and it's just pure melee, the SB is always a tougher fight because of how hard they hit.

Considering everything else is equal between sins (rough expected spec, damage table, AF, absorb, +15 str at start) the only impact on both parties Weaponskill is going to be the 30 strength between races. In no world is 30 strength going to be anywhere close to a 20% damage/resist difference, sorry. Not to mention the NS insta DD basically evens out the base HP difference with the click of a button.

Not really though. My NS has almost 200 HP less than my SB. The instant DD is like around 100 damage. If you use damage add as a SB, you get 50-70 extra damage. This is a huge boost of like 50%? as a NS, you do not always hit with your Offhand so you lose a lot of damage in that. Even the Inf is way more in advantage here because of their huge skill points.

Not to mention the several buffs SB got. 15% Buff on Mainhand in exchange of lower offhand damage, but the offhand damage later got buffed. The LA penalty on styles have been removed, so your style damage are always based on 100% weapon damage.

I think SB have gotten enough buffs to compete. The only thing NS really have is the Armor.

NS all run around with crafted weapon and crafted procs, because the weapons for feathers are totally crap, while SB and Inf have several options. Triple dot or Str/con debuff. While NS have Str/con debuff too, the weapon has a fast attack speed, so you lose a lot of Mainhand damage if you go such a fast weapon.

CD Styles are completely crap except you get a sidestun but the damage from the styles are to low. Anytimer with laughable 0,49 growth Rate and medium defense penalty.

That is far from equal.

Sun 30 Jun 2019 12:11 AM by Campjr

Saroi wrote: ↑
Sun 30 Jun 2019 12:05 AM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Jun 2019 9:37 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Jun 2019 7:34 PM
WS isn't just your ability to hit, it affects your damage. I play Alb now and all Albs are slash neutral. A Norse Vs an Elf or Keen attacking me with Slash weapons is a night and day difference in terms of raw damage, both styled and unstyled. If they happen to get the Perf off before I can react I can live through an NS's initial chain, but it's not the same Vs an SB. If I spot them and it's just pure melee, the SB is always a tougher fight because of how hard they hit.

Considering everything else is equal between sins (rough expected spec, damage table, AF, absorb, +15 str at start) the only impact on both parties Weaponskill is going to be the 30 strength between races. In no world is 30 strength going to be anywhere close to a 20% damage/resist difference, sorry. Not to mention the NS insta DD basically evens out the base HP difference with the click of a button.

Not really though. My NS has almost 200 HP less than my SB. The instant DD is like around 100 damage. If you use damage add as a SB, you get 50-70 extra damage. This is a huge boost of like 50%? as a NS, you do not always hit with your Offhand so you lose a lot of damage in that. Even the Inf is way more in advantage here because of their huge skill points.

Not to mention the several buffs SB got. 15% Buff on Mainhand in exchange of lower offhand damage, but the offhand damage later got buffed. The LA penalty on styles have been removed, so your style damage are always based on 100% weapon damage.

I think SB have gotten enough buffs to compete. The only thing NS really have is the Armor.

NS all run around with crafted weapon and crafted procs, because the weapons for feathers are totally crap, while SB and Inf have several options. Triple dot or Str/con debuff. While NS have Str/con debuff too, the weapon has a fast attack speed, so you lose a lot of Mainhand damage if you go such a fast weapon.

CD Styles are completely crap except you get a sidestun but the damage from the styles are to low. Anytimer with laughable 0,49 growth Rate and medium defense penalty.

That is far from equal.

So what would be your assassin heirarchy?

Sun 30 Jun 2019 12:30 AM by Saroi

Campjr wrote: ↑
Sun 30 Jun 2019 12:11 AM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Sun 30 Jun 2019 12:05 AM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Jun 2019 9:37 PM
Considering everything else is equal between sins (rough expected spec, damage table, AF, absorb, +15 str at start) the only impact on both parties Weaponskill is going to be the 30 strength between races. In no world is 30 strength going to be anywhere close to a 20% damage/resist difference, sorry. Not to mention the NS insta DD basically evens out the base HP difference with the click of a button.

Not really though. My NS has almost 200 HP less than my SB. The instant DD is like around 100 damage. If you use damage add as a SB, you get 50-70 extra damage. This is a huge boost of like 50%? as a NS, you do not always hit with your Offhand so you lose a lot of damage in that. Even the Inf is way more in advantage here because of their huge skill points.

Not to mention the several buffs SB got. 15% Buff on Mainhand in exchange of lower offhand damage, but the offhand damage later got buffed. The LA penalty on styles have been removed, so your style damage are always based on 100% weapon damage.

I think SB have gotten enough buffs to compete. The only thing NS really have is the Armor.

NS all run around with crafted weapon and crafted procs, because the weapons for feathers are totally crap, while SB and Inf have several options. Triple dot or Str/con debuff. While NS have Str/con debuff too, the weapon has a fast attack speed, so you lose a lot of Mainhand damage if you go such a fast weapon.

CD Styles are completely crap except you get a sidestun but the damage from the styles are to low. Anytimer with laughable 0,49 growth Rate and medium defense penalty.

That is far from equal.

So what would be your assassin heirarchy?

At lower RR Inf > SB > NS
At higher RR SB > Inf > NS

Sun 30 Jun 2019 4:47 AM by Mavella

Saroi wrote: ↑
Sun 30 Jun 2019 12:05 AM
Not really though. My NS has almost 200 HP less than my SB. The instant DD is like around 100 damage. If you use damage add as a SB, you get 50-70 extra damage. This is a huge boost of like 50%? as a NS, you do not always hit with your Offhand so you lose a lot of damage in that. Even the Inf is way more in advantage here because of their huge skill points.

Not to mention the several buffs SB got. 15% Buff on Mainhand in exchange of lower offhand damage, but the offhand damage later got buffed. The LA penalty on styles have been removed, so your style damage are always based on 100% weapon damage.

I think SB have gotten enough buffs to compete. The only thing NS really have is the Armor.

NS all run around with crafted weapon and crafted procs, because the weapons for feathers are totally crap, while SB and Inf have several options. Triple dot or Str/con debuff. While NS have Str/con debuff too, the weapon has a fast attack speed, so you lose a lot of Mainhand damage if you go such a fast weapon.

CD Styles are completely crap except you get a sidestun but the damage from the styles are to low. Anytimer with laughable 0,49 growth Rate and medium defense penalty.

That is far from equal.

So lets call the HP difference 100 except 10% of the time when the DD is resisted.

I would also say 35+15 is more accurate on the damage add charge for my SB unless i'm haste and dex/qui debuffed maybe?.

The only thing the re-configuring of LA base damage penalties and scaling did was make critblade more viable at lower RR when you can only afford about 21-25 in LA

LA never had a penalty on styles, it was always base damage. It's base damage here as well. Spec 44CS and use CS styles with 1 LA and then 25LA you'll see a noticeable difference. Only explanation? LA penalty is on base damage only. If LA penalized base damage and styles that would be a double penalty and SBs would get throttled every fight.

Procs, sure i'm not familair with everything available to NS but i'm sure they don't have quite as robust a selection as SB I suppose.

CD Styles - Who cares? CS styles blow everything from CD/DW/LA out of the water with a few notable exceptions - Dual shadows, CD Side stun, Aurora Borealis if the proc still works for SB, not sure. Garrote/AH are the best anytime chain in the game for combined damage and utility, DS is technically a positional. Hamstring chain by far the best evade chain in the game unless you're looking for a stun. I guess I could also bring up how Inf/NS made out in spades with the style rework while SB got more access to a 2 step stun they already had which is shit and difficult to pull off vs basically every class with moderate passive defenses.

So again, 100 hp and 30 str vs 20% dmg. I know what I would pick every time.

Sun 30 Jun 2019 5:58 AM by Saroi

Mavella wrote: ↑
Sun 30 Jun 2019 4:47 AM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Sun 30 Jun 2019 12:05 AM
Not really though. My NS has almost 200 HP less than my SB. The instant DD is like around 100 damage. If you use damage add as a SB, you get 50-70 extra damage. This is a huge boost of like 50%? as a NS, you do not always hit with your Offhand so you lose a lot of damage in that. Even the Inf is way more in advantage here because of their huge skill points.

Not to mention the several buffs SB got. 15% Buff on Mainhand in exchange of lower offhand damage, but the offhand damage later got buffed. The LA penalty on styles have been removed, so your style damage are always based on 100% weapon damage.

I think SB have gotten enough buffs to compete. The only thing NS really have is the Armor.

NS all run around with crafted weapon and crafted procs, because the weapons for feathers are totally crap, while SB and Inf have several options. Triple dot or Str/con debuff. While NS have Str/con debuff too, the weapon has a fast attack speed, so you lose a lot of Mainhand damage if you go such a fast weapon.

CD Styles are completely crap except you get a sidestun but the damage from the styles are to low. Anytimer with laughable 0,49 growth Rate and medium defense penalty.

That is far from equal.

So lets call the HP difference 100 except 10% of the time when the DD is resisted.

I would also say 35+15 is more accurate on the damage add charge for my SB unless i'm haste and dex/qui debuffed maybe?.

The only thing the re-configuring of LA base damage penalties and scaling did was make critblade more viable at lower RR when you can only afford about 21-25 in LA

LA never had a penalty on styles, it was always base damage. It's base damage here as well. Spec 44CS and use CS styles with 1 LA and then 25LA you'll see a noticeable difference. Only explanation? LA penalty is on base damage only. If LA penalized base damage and styles that would be a double penalty and SBs would get throttled every fight.

Procs, sure i'm not familair with everything available to NS but i'm sure they don't have quite as robust a selection as SB I suppose.

CD Styles - Who cares? CS styles blow everything from CD/DW/LA out of the water with a few notable exceptions - Dual shadows, CD Side stun, Aurora Borealis if the proc still works for SB, not sure. Garrote/AH are the best anytime chain in the game for combined damage and utility, DS is technically a positional. Hamstring chain by far the best evade chain in the game unless you're looking for a stun. I guess I could also bring up how Inf/NS made out in spades with the style rework while SB got more access to a 2 step stun they already had which is shit and difficult to pull off vs basically every class with moderate passive defenses.

So again, 100 hp and 30 str vs 20% dmg. I know what I would pick every time.

The damage add has variances, but the minimal damage if both weapons hit is around 50, while it can be up to 70. I had 42 Mainhand and 28 Offhand hits at best.

LA had style penalties because the style damage was calculated on your lower base damage. That is why they have higher Growth Rate like I said to make them not to weak compared to CD/DW. The Penalty did get removed later so your style damage is based on 100% base damage but on live the Growth Rate of some LA styles like the Backchain have been lowered. On this server it is not the case. Now this is just about the style bonus. Your base damage isn't at 100%, that is why you will see difference if you have higher LA because basedamage + style damage(from the 100% base damage calculated) = Your damage. Speccing into LA gives you more base damage. And as I have mentioned, here on this server the base damage of LA Mainhand was buffed from normally 62,5% to 77,3%. That is a 15% damage buff already

Having the option to spec into CD like Inf have DW or SB with LA with good anytimers can make a difference. Better Offhand hits give you a huge damage boost, because you attack more with Offhand so you gain damage and the attack speed boost from your offhand. Atm you do not have that option because the style damage is so low, it is not worth it. Garotte as an anytimer with a medium defense penalty is not favoured by everyone. I for once do not like it. With an enemy having a to low hit style he will have basically a 100% chance to hit you. That is why I am 50 LA. And yes, Aurora Borealis has the 130 Cold proc here, which is also a buff to SB's because that was Berserker only.

For instance, an Inf has the oppurtunity to have 50 DW, to get his Dual Shadows, let us just say in a 1v1 it is an anytimer. The Growth Rate is higher than Garotte, so you will do more damage. Achilles will do more style damage than Dual Shadows. But if Achilles gets evaded or whatever you lose damage. But even if Garotte + Achilles will hit, 2x Dual Shadows will give you additional 50 Bleed damage. And by speccing 50 into DW to get a very good anytimer, you also get 81% Offhand hit chance, compared to the 55%-60% that the NS has with RR5. Even in a high RR, the NS will not be able to have such high Offhand hit chance, because he is completely forced to spec full CS.

Harmstring may be the best evade chain but the combo is also very hard to execute and is depended on luck. The new stun styles aren't really a buff with everyone basically running purge 4/5, I stopped using stun because it just means my poison and dot procs will be purged. Totally not worth it, especially if I play my NS because reapplying poison is harder with Offhand not always hitting. And for NS the stun is 4 seconds, compared to 7 sec of SB or 6 or 8 sec on Inf.

You may pick the 20% Armor difference, I'll pick the SB side anyday. As for my NS, I'd also gladly give away the armor bonus to be able to make either a celt or get decent CD styles, like Meteor shower anytimer or the old op thunderstorm.

Besides the Sneak fight itself, by speccing into Blades, NS give up their pierce advantage vs. others like Mid Chain. While all Mid Vikings spec hammer, they will have a 20% damage advantage, not to mention a 10% bonus damage from a 2h is much more painful. And Mid have 2 wonderful cloth classes that are not killable. So as a SB you also have more and easier targets to kill. If you go pierce though you can basically surrender to every SB because you will get smashed.

Sun 30 Jun 2019 11:47 AM by Cadebrennus

Mavella wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Jun 2019 9:37 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Jun 2019 7:34 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Jun 2019 5:16 PM
Well I see very similar evade rates vs bladeshades when I presumably have a significant strength advantage. I'm gonna call 1-3% evade rate difference in the best of times small potatoes compared to 20% damage difference. I've gotten my ass handed to me by bladeshades 2+ RRs below me purely due to the damage difference.

WS isn't just your ability to hit, it affects your damage. I play Alb now and all Albs are slash neutral. A Norse Vs an Elf or Keen attacking me with Slash weapons is a night and day difference in terms of raw damage, both styled and unstyled. If they happen to get the Perf off before I can react I can live through an NS's initial chain, but it's not the same Vs an SB. If I spot them and it's just pure melee, the SB is always a tougher fight because of how hard they hit.

Considering everything else is equal between sins (rough expected spec, damage table, AF, absorb, +15 str at start) the only impact on both parties Weaponskill is going to be the 30 strength between races. In no world is 30 strength going to be anywhere close to a 20% damage/resist difference, sorry. Not to mention the NS insta DD basically evens out the base HP difference with the click of a button.

30 strength advantage is a HUGE deal on this server compared to live because of the low stat numbers here on Phoenix. Percentage-wise it's far more significant than you realize.

Sun 30 Jun 2019 2:12 PM by gotwqqd

Phoenix ruined second hand style lines

Sun 30 Jun 2019 8:33 PM by Mavella

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 30 Jun 2019 11:47 AM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Jun 2019 9:37 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Jun 2019 7:34 PM
WS isn't just your ability to hit, it affects your damage. I play Alb now and all Albs are slash neutral. A Norse Vs an Elf or Keen attacking me with Slash weapons is a night and day difference in terms of raw damage, both styled and unstyled. If they happen to get the Perf off before I can react I can live through an NS's initial chain, but it's not the same Vs an SB. If I spot them and it's just pure melee, the SB is always a tougher fight because of how hard they hit.

Considering everything else is equal between sins (rough expected spec, damage table, AF, absorb, +15 str at start) the only impact on both parties Weaponskill is going to be the 30 strength between races. In no world is 30 strength going to be anywhere close to a 20% damage/resist difference, sorry. Not to mention the NS insta DD basically evens out the base HP difference with the click of a button.

30 strength advantage is a HUGE deal on this server compared to live because of the low stat numbers here on Phoenix. Percentage-wise it's far more significant than you realize.

Yes I am aware how much 30 strength is in relation to the across the board stat values % wise. I'm saying it doesn't matter nearly as much as +10%/-10% does by a fairly wide margin in a 20 second fight. If we're going to look at theoretical DPS over a 10 minute timeframe sure. It matters a whole lot more.

And again, Norse after the charge nerf now have to invest significantly into aug qui/MoArms to get good attack speed. Other races don't have to invest in as much and can then drop 10pts on Aug Str 5 and get 22str making the difference quite minimal. Even at RR9 I have to invest in crit and attack speed more than get a few more strength because if i get haste debuffed without those investments i'm swinging at like 2.5-3sec which will almost guarantee a loss.

Also just tested No Aug str vs Aug str 9 on the Dummy Garrote mainhand gets a whopping 13 damage and offhand 3 damage for a 34 point investment. Not exactly what I would call worth it. +22 str got me 6 damage on my mainhand only. Compare this to other damage options available to sins and I would consider strength to be pretty much bottom of the barrel. NS can toss 10 points in to str to basically even out the str gap and again maintain a 20% favorable damage match up.

Saroi wrote: The damage add has variances, but the minimal damage if both weapons hit is around 50, while it can be up to 70. I had 42 Mainhand and 28 Offhand hits at best.

LA had style penalties because the style damage was calculated on your lower base damage. That is why they have higher Growth Rate like I said to make them not to weak compared to CD/DW. The Penalty did get removed later so your style damage is based on 100% base damage but on live the Growth Rate of some LA styles like the Backchain have been lowered. On this server it is not the case. Now this is just about the style bonus. Your base damage isn't at 100%, that is why you will see difference if you have higher LA because basedamage + style damage(from the 100% base damage calculated) = Your damage. Speccing into LA gives you more base damage. And as I have mentioned, here on this server the base damage of LA Mainhand was buffed from normally 62,5% to 77,3%. That is a 15% damage buff already

Having the option to spec into CD like Inf have DW or SB with LA with good anytimers can make a difference. Better Offhand hits give you a huge damage boost, because you attack more with Offhand so you gain damage and the attack speed boost from your offhand. Atm you do not have that option because the style damage is so low, it is not worth it. Garotte as an anytimer with a medium defense penalty is not favoured by everyone. I for once do not like it. With an enemy having a to low hit style he will have basically a 100% chance to hit you. That is why I am 50 LA. And yes, Aurora Borealis has the 130 Cold proc here, which is also a buff to SB's because that was Berserker only.

For instance, an Inf has the oppurtunity to have 50 DW, to get his Dual Shadows, let us just say in a 1v1 it is an anytimer. The Growth Rate is higher than Garotte, so you will do more damage. Achilles will do more style damage than Dual Shadows. But if Achilles gets evaded or whatever you lose damage. But even if Garotte + Achilles will hit, 2x Dual Shadows will give you additional 50 Bleed damage. And by speccing 50 into DW to get a very good anytimer, you also get 81% Offhand hit chance, compared to the 55%-60% that the NS has with RR5. Even in a high RR, the NS will not be able to have such high Offhand hit chance, because he is completely forced to spec full CS.

Harmstring may be the best evade chain but the combo is also very hard to execute and is depended on luck. The new stun styles aren't really a buff with everyone basically running purge 4/5, I stopped using stun because it just means my poison and dot procs will be purged. Totally not worth it, especially if I play my NS because reapplying poison is harder with Offhand not always hitting. And for NS the stun is 4 seconds, compared to 7 sec of SB or 6 or 8 sec on Inf.

You may pick the 20% Armor difference, I'll pick the SB side anyday. As for my NS, I'd also gladly give away the armor bonus to be able to make either a celt or get decent CD styles, like Meteor shower anytimer or the old op thunderstorm.

Besides the Sneak fight itself, by speccing into Blades, NS give up their pierce advantage vs. others like Mid Chain. While all Mid Vikings spec hammer, they will have a 20% damage advantage, not to mention a 10% bonus damage from a 2h is much more painful. And Mid have 2 wonderful cloth classes that are not killable. So as a SB you also have more and easier targets to kill. If you go pierce though you can basically surrender to every SB because you will get smashed.

The biggest impact on DA variance is your attack speed so if you get haste debuffed of course it's going to go up and look more. Every fight I had last night it was +25/+15 unless my attack speed was modified in combat.

You also keep bringing up the change in LA scaling....They DPS is still the same, the only "buff" is that more of it comes from the mainhand and is less likely outright MISS due to style bonuses.

As for Dual Shadows I agree with everything you said. Ultimately Infs/NS weren't supposed to get access to those high bleeds, side stun, etc just like SB isn't supposed to have AB DD proc way back when but Mythic fucked it up and never changed it. I honestly think Dual shadows it a little over the top with 15/tick bleed attached to it. AB extremely situational and if you're in a position to get 3 styles in a rear chain off that fight is likely won no matter the spec.

As for speccing high LA sure its an option but if you want maximum damage, and most high RR SBs I've talked to agree, 44CS with LA lagging not too far behind is the best you can do on a SB, nothing different from NS. Inf is the only outlier here because of Dual Shadow almost exclusively.

Those stun styles are a big deal vs non-sin targets because how many of them are running purge 4/5 unless they are specifically running solo. I'd argue VERY few. Pop 4sec stun vs them then get hamstring , leaper, and a chance at rib sep for free. I DREAM of that utility on my SB. Not getting parried/blocked/evaded 2 times in a row vs many classes you face as an SB i'm sure you've experienced is quite frustrating.

As for the oh so many negative downsides to speccing Blades on NS I'm not going to shed any tears because you have a tougher time vs the handful of chain wearers that aren't skalds that actually roam around. You get to be neutral to all of alb and get a bonus to both mid stealth. Compare that to Neutral to all of alb and a big penalty vs both Hib stealth.

Clearly we aren't going to agree on this and of course i'm making these arguments in the wrong forum but in no world is 30 str and 100 hp remotely close to 20% damage in these short fights.

Still fun to debate anyway!

Sun 30 Jun 2019 8:55 PM by Cadebrennus

Mavella wrote: ↑
Sun 30 Jun 2019 8:33 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 30 Jun 2019 11:47 AM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Jun 2019 9:37 PM
Considering everything else is equal between sins (rough expected spec, damage table, AF, absorb, +15 str at start) the only impact on both parties Weaponskill is going to be the 30 strength between races. In no world is 30 strength going to be anywhere close to a 20% damage/resist difference, sorry. Not to mention the NS insta DD basically evens out the base HP difference with the click of a button.

30 strength advantage is a HUGE deal on this server compared to live because of the low stat numbers here on Phoenix. Percentage-wise it's far more significant than you realize.

Yes I am aware how much 30 strength is in relation to the across the board stat values % wise. I'm saying it doesn't matter nearly as much as +10%/-10% does by a fairly wide margin in a 20 second fight. If we're going to look at theoretical DPS over a 10 minute timeframe sure. It matters a whole lot more.

And again, Norse after the charge nerf now have to invest significantly into aug qui/MoArms to get good attack speed. Other races don't have to invest in as much and can then drop 10pts on Aug Str 5 and get 22str making the difference quite minimal. Even at RR9 I have to invest in crit and attack speed more than get a few more strength because if i get haste debuffed without those investments i'm swinging at like 2.5-3sec which will almost guarantee a loss.

Also just tested No Aug str vs Aug str 9 on the Dummy Garrote mainhand gets a whopping 13 damage and offhand 3 damage for a 34 point investment. Not exactly what I would call worth it. +22 str got me 6 damage on my mainhand only. Compare this to other damage options available to sins and I would consider strength to be pretty much bottom of the barrel. NS can toss 10 points in to str to basically even out the str gap and again maintain a 20% favorable damage match up.

Saroi wrote: The damage add has variances, but the minimal damage if both weapons hit is around 50, while it can be up to 70. I had 42 Mainhand and 28 Offhand hits at best.

LA had style penalties because the style damage was calculated on your lower base damage. That is why they have higher Growth Rate like I said to make them not to weak compared to CD/DW. The Penalty did get removed later so your style damage is based on 100% base damage but on live the Growth Rate of some LA styles like the Backchain have been lowered. On this server it is not the case. Now this is just about the style bonus. Your base damage isn't at 100%, that is why you will see difference if you have higher LA because basedamage + style damage(from the 100% base damage calculated) = Your damage. Speccing into LA gives you more base damage. And as I have mentioned, here on this server the base damage of LA Mainhand was buffed from normally 62,5% to 77,3%. That is a 15% damage buff already

Having the option to spec into CD like Inf have DW or SB with LA with good anytimers can make a difference. Better Offhand hits give you a huge damage boost, because you attack more with Offhand so you gain damage and the attack speed boost from your offhand. Atm you do not have that option because the style damage is so low, it is not worth it. Garotte as an anytimer with a medium defense penalty is not favoured by everyone. I for once do not like it. With an enemy having a to low hit style he will have basically a 100% chance to hit you. That is why I am 50 LA. And yes, Aurora Borealis has the 130 Cold proc here, which is also a buff to SB's because that was Berserker only.

For instance, an Inf has the oppurtunity to have 50 DW, to get his Dual Shadows, let us just say in a 1v1 it is an anytimer. The Growth Rate is higher than Garotte, so you will do more damage. Achilles will do more style damage than Dual Shadows. But if Achilles gets evaded or whatever you lose damage. But even if Garotte + Achilles will hit, 2x Dual Shadows will give you additional 50 Bleed damage. And by speccing 50 into DW to get a very good anytimer, you also get 81% Offhand hit chance, compared to the 55%-60% that the NS has with RR5. Even in a high RR, the NS will not be able to have such high Offhand hit chance, because he is completely forced to spec full CS.

Harmstring may be the best evade chain but the combo is also very hard to execute and is depended on luck. The new stun styles aren't really a buff with everyone basically running purge 4/5, I stopped using stun because it just means my poison and dot procs will be purged. Totally not worth it, especially if I play my NS because reapplying poison is harder with Offhand not always hitting. And for NS the stun is 4 seconds, compared to 7 sec of SB or 6 or 8 sec on Inf.

You may pick the 20% Armor difference, I'll pick the SB side anyday. As for my NS, I'd also gladly give away the armor bonus to be able to make either a celt or get decent CD styles, like Meteor shower anytimer or the old op thunderstorm.

Besides the Sneak fight itself, by speccing into Blades, NS give up their pierce advantage vs. others like Mid Chain. While all Mid Vikings spec hammer, they will have a 20% damage advantage, not to mention a 10% bonus damage from a 2h is much more painful. And Mid have 2 wonderful cloth classes that are not killable. So as a SB you also have more and easier targets to kill. If you go pierce though you can basically surrender to every SB because you will get smashed.

The biggest impact on DA variance is your attack speed so if you get haste debuffed of course it's going to go up and look more. Every fight I had last night it was +25/+15 unless my attack speed was modified in combat.

You also keep bringing up the change in LA scaling....They DPS is still the same, the only "buff" is that more of it comes from the mainhand and is less likely outright MISS due to style bonuses.

As for Dual Shadows I agree with everything you said. Ultimately Infs/NS weren't supposed to get access to those high bleeds, side stun, etc just like SB isn't supposed to have AB DD proc way back when but Mythic fucked it up and never changed it. I honestly think Dual shadows it a little over the top with 15/tick bleed attached to it. AB extremely situational and if you're in a position to get 3 styles in a rear chain off that fight is likely won no matter the spec.

As for speccing high LA sure its an option but if you want maximum damage, and most high RR SBs I've talked to agree, 44CS with LA lagging not too far behind is the best you can do on a SB, nothing different from NS. Inf is the only outlier here because of Dual Shadow almost exclusively.

Those stun styles are a big deal vs non-sin targets because how many of them are running purge 4/5 unless they are specifically running solo. I'd argue VERY few. Pop 4sec stun vs them then get hamstring , leaper, and a chance at rib sep for free. I DREAM of that utility on my SB. Not getting parried/blocked/evaded 2 times in a row vs many classes you face as an SB i'm sure you've experienced is quite frustrating.

As for the oh so many negative downsides to speccing Blades on NS I'm not going to shed any tears because you have a tougher time vs the handful of chain wearers that aren't skalds that actually roam around. You get to be neutral to all of alb and get a bonus to both mid stealth. Compare that to Neutral to all of alb and a big penalty vs both Hib stealth.

Clearly we aren't going to agree on this and of course i'm making these arguments in the wrong forum but in no world is 30 str and 100 hp remotely close to 20% damage in these short fights.

Still fun to debate anyway!

A 56 Dex/Qui debuff is a whopping 0.2 second swing speed loss. It even ups your per hit because it makes the damage per second (DPS) even out.

A 30 str advantage doesn't just help you with damage over time, it actually boosts your damage per hit. Add in the 100% (always on) haste bonus from Left Axe and you have a significant advantage per swing that your Alb and Hib counterparts don't have. They need to have a fight last with no interruption for approximately 20 seconds (longer if specced low in DW/CD like NS/Rangers do) before they see a DPS increase from the offhand haste effect.

Sun 30 Jun 2019 9:25 PM by Saroi

Mavella wrote: ↑
Sun 30 Jun 2019 8:33 PM
The biggest impact on DA variance is your attack speed so if you get haste debuffed of course it's going to go up and look more. Every fight I had last night it was +25/+15 unless my attack speed was modified in combat.

You also keep bringing up the change in LA scaling....They DPS is still the same, the only "buff" is that more of it comes from the mainhand and is less likely outright MISS due to style bonuses.

As for Dual Shadows I agree with everything you said. Ultimately Infs/NS weren't supposed to get access to those high bleeds, side stun, etc just like SB isn't supposed to have AB DD proc way back when but Mythic fucked it up and never changed it. I honestly think Dual shadows it a little over the top with 15/tick bleed attached to it. AB extremely situational and if you're in a position to get 3 styles in a rear chain off that fight is likely won no matter the spec.

As for speccing high LA sure its an option but if you want maximum damage, and most high RR SBs I've talked to agree, 44CS with LA lagging not too far behind is the best you can do on a SB, nothing different from NS. Inf is the only outlier here because of Dual Shadow almost exclusively.

Those stun styles are a big deal vs non-sin targets because how many of them are running purge 4/5 unless they are specifically running solo. I'd argue VERY few. Pop 4sec stun vs them then get hamstring , leaper, and a chance at rib sep for free. I DREAM of that utility on my SB. Not getting parried/blocked/evaded 2 times in a row vs many classes you face as an SB i'm sure you've experienced is quite frustrating.

As for the oh so many negative downsides to speccing Blades on NS I'm not going to shed any tears because you have a tougher time vs the handful of chain wearers that aren't skalds that actually roam around. You get to be neutral to all of alb and get a bonus to both mid stealth. Compare that to Neutral to all of alb and a big penalty vs both Hib stealth.

Clearly we aren't going to agree on this and of course i'm making these arguments in the wrong forum but in no world is 30 str and 100 hp remotely close to 20% damage in these short fights.

Still fun to debate anyway!

I haven't played in a while, even if it is now something like 25-15 now you still have a good damage buff from it.

The buff about LA is not just Mainhand, because later the scaling on Offhand got buffed. The Mainhand base damage was buffed right away. Having a 15% more damage on your Mainhand is a huge deal(This is not scaling with LA spec, it is right away with having just LA), especially since the big damage comes from Mainhand and not Offhand. So the dps is not the same, the dps got buffed. Let us say you have 100 Base damage. By going LA you normally start with 62,5% damage. So your Mainhand does 62 damage. Now on this server you start with 77,3%. That is 77 damage per hit instead of 62. You saying that is not a big deal?

And talking about the no LA penalty on styles. Normally if you use a style, the style damage was calculated from your 62 damage. Here it is calculated on your full base damage, in this case 100 damage. So the modifier applies etc.

About the 3 styles in potion you win a fight either way, I would not say that, especially against tank chars or Necro's a AB can win you a fight, while if you get 3 other styles it cannot. Dispite the 130 Cold DD Proc, the Backchain has a huge Growth Rate. Alone AB can make a Mainhand hit for around 200 damage and all have High hit chances, which means you do not miss. I had a fight vs. a Hero, rr7. I did 205 Mainhand damage + around 130 Coldproc.

If you talk about "high" SB, the reason for CS is so you can execute faster. CS is not meant for dueling though. So if you talk about dueling, especially vs. NS/Rangers LA will give you a better outcome. LA as and always will be better for straight 1v1 than CS. I am playing both SB and NS. With my NS I can say fighting a CS specced SB is easier to kill than fighting a 50 LA specced SB. So if you want to have better fights vs. other sneaks, 50 LA is the way to go.

As for shedding no tears. Well the only advantage NS are getting is Hunter, SB and Inf. Hunter/SB 20%, Inf 10%(Sure you could say Friar but let's face it, friar is not a target for a sin). Scouts/minstrels is 10% loss. All Mid chainweares is 20% loss, all Alb chain wearers is 10% loss. Chain armor is by far the most armor in the game. As a SB, you have 10% bonus damage to all chain wearers on Hib, because they are vulnerable.
The only enemies I fear as a SB are Friar and Champ. Everything else can be killed, some a bit harder like Necro but other easier.
What I fear with my NS: Every chain wearer on Mid, Berserker, Friar, I also have to fear 2 cloth wearer in BD and SM. (Even with pierced of whatever BD and SM are to 99% not killable).

No we are probably not going to agree. But then again 30 Str and 100 HP is not the only advantage SB are getting, while NS is really about the better armor.

Fri 12 Jul 2019 11:28 AM by Anelyn77

Quick question, for leveling are you guys going comp env to level, blades, rest CD yes? Or it's worth it to swap to CS once evade chain / garrote become available, keep env at level comp, rest main weapon (leftovers CD)?

Cheers. Neptunia Elf NS lvling currently, see you at a bridge / dock / keep soonish TM

/Bnot + Aicha | Aichas | Aichaa

Mon 15 Jul 2019 12:20 PM by Taniquetil

Agree with Yroniel, NS's have to gimp themselves in many areas to be competitive in some, but going toe to toe in that, and tbh having a pretty enjoyable time on my NS currently its not bad, a celt NS would help a bit, but it's not awful currently. Although I am jelly of you being able to have everything except friars and champ. So many more classes to avoid or be very tactical about on a shade.

Also, Yroniel, you're hella tough, had some good fighrts.

Mon 15 Jul 2019 12:23 PM by Taniquetil

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Fri 12 Jul 2019 11:28 AM
Quick question, for leveling are you guys going comp env to level, blades, rest CD yes? Or it's worth it to swap to CS once evade chain / garrote become available, keep env at level comp, rest main weapon (leftovers CD)?

Cheers. Neptunia Elf NS lvling currently, see you at a bridge / dock / keep soonish TM

/Bnot + Aicha | Aichas | Aichaa

for levelling PvE? Just go full weapon, rest CD, and some points in envenom... if you solo more then put more points in to envenom taking some away from CD and try and keep envenom as high as you can with +env items. Spam tinders, get a buffpot for once you're level 30, and you can solo to 50 in under/around 24hrs here with a little focus and hunting xp items+good mob bonuses.

Mon 15 Jul 2019 1:34 PM by Anelyn77

Taniquetil wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Jul 2019 12:23 PM
Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Fri 12 Jul 2019 11:28 AM
Quick question, for leveling are you guys going comp env to level, blades, rest CD yes? Or it's worth it to swap to CS once evade chain / garrote become available, keep env at level comp, rest main weapon (leftovers CD)?

Cheers. Neptunia Elf NS lvling currently, see you at a bridge / dock / keep soonish TM

/Bnot + Aicha | Aichas | Aichaa

for levelling PvE? Just go full weapon, rest CD, and some points in envenom... if you solo more then put more points in to envenom taking some away from CD and try and keep envenom as high as you can with +env items. Spam tinders, get a buffpot for once you're level 30, and you can solo to 50 in under/around 24hrs here with a little focus and hunting xp items+good mob bonuses.

Heya Tani, thanks for input! Lvl 48 now almost, so pve is out of the door (was lucky at 26 to go NF and drop 2 oils on 4-5fg mids in a broken behn tower, fastest 26-33 in 15s lol and straight up RR2 from RR1). As soon as I could grab Achile's in CS, I went CS level, env comp to level, some CD and rest blades, went smooth, could chain reds (Task mobs in nf / normal pve zone) with tinder and buff elixirs. Wasn't so bad as I thought it would be!

<3

/Aicha | Aichas | Aichaa | Neptunia + Bnotashamed

Mon 15 Jul 2019 3:12 PM by Taniquetil

Ah nice, then yeah 50 Composite Stealth and envenom, 52 composite weapon, 44cs and rest CD would be my advised for RvR.

Good luck!

Wed 17 Jul 2019 5:03 PM by Saroi

Taniquetil wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Jul 2019 12:20 PM
Agree with Yroniel, NS's have to gimp themselves in many areas to be competitive in some, but going toe to toe in that, and tbh having a pretty enjoyable time on my NS currently its not bad, a celt NS would help a bit, but it's not awful currently. Although I am jelly of you being able to have everything except friars and champ. So many more classes to avoid or be very tactical about on a shade.

Also, Yroniel, you're hella tough, had some good fighrts.

Sadly like always there were too many adds in every fight. Would loved to have fights vs you without Mids interfering ^^

Wed 17 Jul 2019 9:43 PM by Anelyn77

Wait what you avoid stuff? I'm Rambo style perfing BDs outside Bled in front of their bg, perfing pac healers / skalds / minstrels when they run with their 8m, that's where the fun is, make em fear you!

(Also just mainly doing tasks till I get at least RR5 so I can actually engage some of the higher ranks stealthers without being just a distraction).

Had a RR9 inf 2 days ago unstealthing me as I was sneaking inside Beno to perf an afk avalonian next to like 3fg+ then shaking head /NO at me. Like.... really? Am solo, trying to do what assassins are supposed to do and you disapprove?

But hey am having a blast playing her my style, and in the end that's the whole point of it no? (lvl 50 now too).

<3

/Bnotashamed + Aicha + Neptunia

Fri 27 Mar 2020 1:18 PM by 2flare

I dont know what game you guys are playing.

I'm 50 LA and temped I can barely hit NS for 100-110dmg on a 2nd from my evade! Meanwhile I'm getting hit back for 50% more dmg by NS and Infs.

I did the Aug Str 9 test.... I literally did 13-15 more dmg and that's including BOTH mh and oh combined... So obviously the 30 str isn't making any significant dent versus BladeShades or Slash Infs hitting me for 150-180dmg.

lmao. Alot of you are reaching. I've played and tested every spec/RA combination out there. There's NOTHING that can make up for 50% damage difference I'm experiencing. Lol. So many "experts" on here with the midas touch who somehow claim SBs can dish out comparable 150-180dmg per swing as the NS/Infs I'm battling. Yeah right!! There's a damage difference and the 20% armor resist is the main culprit. I know you are going to say"you must be doing something wrong if you're damage is not up to par" lmao. Literally every SB can min/max nobody is unique in DAoC. Nobody's hitting those insane swing levels as Savrun, Dandere , etc. I get it you want to have fun. Enjoy ! xD but dont make it sound like SBs are swinging the same damage numbers. That's just bullshit.I really don't know what we're arguing about here lol.... I get it you REALLY want to make sure you have the upper hand in all your fights.... but The damage advantage is in your ballpark. Keep lying in public forums and reap the spoils privately in the game... literally there's only one SB in the entire server who claims he's doing comparable dmg(I'll let u guess who) but every SB I talked to in game acknowledges the damage difference is 25-50%. SBs swing for 90-110 in general. I don't expect to do anymore then that but there's a serious inbalance when I'm getting hit for 150-180 by certain infs and NS...

Fri 27 Mar 2020 10:31 PM by Taniquetil

2flare wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Mar 2020 1:18 PM
I dont know what game you guys are playing.

I'm 50 LA and temped I can barely hit NS for 100-110dmg on a 2nd from my evade! Meanwhile I'm getting hit back for 50% more dmg by NS and Infs.

I did the Aug Str 9 test.... I literally did 13-15 more dmg and that's including BOTH mh and oh combined... So obviously the 30 str isn't making any significant dent versus BladeShades or Slash Infs hitting me for 150-180dmg.

lmao. Alot of you are reaching. I've played and tested every spec/RA combination out there. There's NOTHING that can make up for 50% damage difference I'm experiencing. Lol. So many "experts" on here with the midas touch who somehow claim SBs can dish out comparable 150-180dmg per swing as the NS/Infs I'm battling. Yeah right!! There's a damage difference and the 20% armor resist is the main culprit. I know you are going to say"you must be doing something wrong if you're damage is not up to par" lmao. Literally every SB can min/max nobody is unique in DAoC. Nobody's hitting those insane swing levels as Savrun, Dandere , etc. I get it you want to have fun. Enjoy ! xD but dont make it sound like SBs are swinging the same damage numbers. That's just bullshit.I really don't know what we're arguing about here lol.... I get it you REALLY want to make sure you have the upper hand in all your fights.... but The damage advantage is in your ballpark. Keep lying in public forums and reap the spoils privately in the game... literally there's only one SB in the entire server who claims he's doing comparable dmg(I'll let u guess who) but every SB I talked to in game acknowledges the damage difference is 25-50%. SBs swing for 90-110 in general. I don't expect to do anymore then that but there's a serious inbalance when I'm getting hit for 150-180 by certain infs and NS...

This was supposed to be a private video but sod it. This was back when SB's suffered that 'awful' imbalance of the 20% dmg table differnce (You know they changed this yea?) Video is about 6 months old now over 2x short play sessions on some friends SB's.. first time back playing SB so some dodgy style choices sometimes, forgetting to backchain post stun etc, but pretty much walk through a load of NS's even after letting them PA me. It's not the class. It's you. Sorry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgzZYcWl6Og

It's not the class, it's you. Sorry.

Free bonus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i15qjBZnLMI

If these additional changes come in to buff SB again, NS will probably need to be given celt, or risk just getting rolled a lot.

All that said, Sneak balance is VERY good right now. Played right all 3 classes can win.

Fri 27 Mar 2020 11:44 PM by dearen75

Mavella wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Jun 2019 4:15 PM
Maybe when there isn't a 20% resist advantage for bladeshades/rangers vs mid leather.

Now it's only 15% resist advantage since Devs had done this:
"Armor vulnerability will be reduced from 10% to 5%, please note that this change won't affect the 10% malus, just the vulnerability"

Sat 28 Mar 2020 6:41 AM by Freedomcall

2flare wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Mar 2020 1:18 PM
I dont know what game you guys are playing.

I'm 50 LA and temped I can barely hit NS for 100-110dmg on a 2nd from my evade! Meanwhile I'm getting hit back for 50% more dmg by NS and Infs.

I did the Aug Str 9 test.... I literally did 13-15 more dmg and that's including BOTH mh and oh combined... So obviously the 30 str isn't making any significant dent versus BladeShades or Slash Infs hitting me for 150-180dmg.

lmao. Alot of you are reaching. I've played and tested every spec/RA combination out there. There's NOTHING that can make up for 50% damage difference I'm experiencing. Lol. So many "experts" on here with the midas touch who somehow claim SBs can dish out comparable 150-180dmg per swing as the NS/Infs I'm battling. Yeah right!! There's a damage difference and the 20% armor resist is the main culprit. I know you are going to say"you must be doing something wrong if you're damage is not up to par" lmao. Literally every SB can min/max nobody is unique in DAoC. Nobody's hitting those insane swing levels as Savrun, Dandere , etc. I get it you want to have fun. Enjoy ! xD but dont make it sound like SBs are swinging the same damage numbers. That's just bullshit.I really don't know what we're arguing about here lol.... I get it you REALLY want to make sure you have the upper hand in all your fights.... but The damage advantage is in your ballpark. Keep lying in public forums and reap the spoils privately in the game... literally there's only one SB in the entire server who claims he's doing comparable dmg(I'll let u guess who) but every SB I talked to in game acknowledges the damage difference is 25-50%. SBs swing for 90-110 in general. I don't expect to do anymore then that but there's a serious inbalance when I'm getting hit for 150-180 by certain infs and NS...

You still whining about SB? lol
I can make a wall of text with regard to why your analysis is wrong, but I can't be bothered.
I'd like to suggest just one thing. Switch realm to hib and try playing NS yourself.
You will learn that you were utterly wrong.

In fact, the only class that can be called OP is thrust Infil(when played right).
NS and SB are pretty comparable in similar RR.

Sat 28 Mar 2020 7:31 AM by Cadebrennus

dearen75 wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Mar 2020 11:44 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Jun 2019 4:15 PM
Maybe when there isn't a 20% resist advantage for bladeshades/rangers vs mid leather.
Now it's only 15% resist advantage since Devs had done this:
"Armor vulnerability will be reduced from 10% to 5%, please note that this change won't affect the 10% malus, just the vulnerability"

They did this because the whines from the whiners were deafening.

Thu 2 Apr 2020 4:31 AM by Mavella

What a necro. When I played last I found the balance to be quite decent post armor resist change. NS still had a pretty strong tool 1v1 with their d/q debuff if it fired off early. I think you could certainly add Celt NS now after the armor vulnerability was toned down. That's up to the devs though. Who knows what how things might shake out if those style changes went through that I was reading about.

Taniquetil wrote: Free bonus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i15qjBZnLMI

You perfed and had no enervate on you for 15 seconds of that fight. If you lost it would have been criminal.

Thu 2 Apr 2020 8:28 AM by Taniquetil

Mavella wrote: What a necro. When I played last I found the balance to be quite decent post armor resist change. NS still had a pretty strong tool 1v1 with their d/q debuff if it fired off early. I think you could certainly add Celt NS now after the armor vulnerability was toned down. That's up to the devs though. Who knows what how things might shake out if those style changes went through that I was reading about.

Taniquetil wrote: Free bonus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i15qjBZnLMI

You perfed and had no enervate on you for 15 seconds of that fight. If you lost it would have been criminal.

Hah, yeah true, wasnt even supposed to see the light of day, didnt even pay attention to that, probably doesnt help my point much, the other vid of allowing myself to be PA'd a few times covers it off. Point of the other one was that even pre nerf an SB could comfortably dominate/compete. Style changes will absolutely smash this out of whack, and much more boring for everyone.

Agree with Cade, thrusty is king when played right. Was beating rr9/10/11 NS's (yes with all toys up) at RR2/3 on the inf.