People lost interest in taking keeps

1. doors got too hard, even with 2 rams going it takes so long that players loose interest in going for more keeps and think twice even hitting the first one.
2. show somewhere on map - herald or in game that keep in fire?
3. people complaining about rps for PvE - I somewhat agree so not asking for major boost in RPs for keep taking but overall, something has to be done to get people interested in siege warfare for sake of defending? attacking? some form of bonus/reward?
4. remove caravans?
5. give more rps for taking keep, depending on how far it is from portal keep? more for retaking your own keeps?

many options...

Tue 21 May 2019 6:12 PM by Luluko

well defending or attacking a keep is no fun at all since all stand on a hill and have horrible layout there needs be done a lot more that people come to keep fights

Tue 21 May 2019 7:15 PM by Horus

I dunno, on hib, it seems like at any given time the majority of the active RvR population is involved with a keep take BG.

Tue 21 May 2019 7:28 PM by PingGuy

Horus wrote: ↑
Tue 21 May 2019 7:15 PM
I dunno, on hib, it seems like at any given time the majority of the active RvR population is involved with a keep take BG.

I've witnessed this too. In fact, this morning, after the recent change for the starter guild, I started seeing messages in guild chat about taking and upgrading a keep. Go starter guild!

Tue 21 May 2019 7:53 PM by lurker

They stated they are testing NF keeps with the Molvik event coming up. Hopefully this may result in something spectacular.

Yes there needs to be a herald or war map for advanced notice. However... the current OF keeps are not conducive to keep defense so IMO this is why there is little action there and so much Zerg elsewhere... what’s the point in running to a keep to defend when there is only one entry point and your very unlikely to get in. Equally once you are inside, you can’t defend due to the bad design of the keeps generally. Bad LoS, no seige, etc. TWF pwning everything in sight.

Tue 21 May 2019 9:21 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Old frontier keeps are a joke and not worth defending, so there is no action in the activity, it's just sitting around for 15 minutes for a small reward, then moving on to the next 15 minute wait.

Wed 22 May 2019 1:51 AM by LedriTheThane

OF keeps are trash. I'll gladly defend NF keeps.

Wed 22 May 2019 2:11 AM by Bumbles

If NF keeps go live you will see the emergence of actual BGs that fight each other instead of passing in the wind. This is a GOOD thing for casual players and those who don't have the stamina for 8v8 or solo play. BG leaders will basically be the same people who currently take keeps all day/night but at least there will be RPs being made on all sides. We can only hope for NF keeps...

Wed 22 May 2019 1:24 PM by Ardri

Posted this 3+ months ago in response to their "Keep Changes" patch https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=6823

This will change nothing. People will always choose the easiest way to get the most RPs. And right now the easiest way is to just go to the deathmatch task zone and collect free participation rps. As long as this is an option no one will do anything else. You need to drastically reduce these RPs or make the keep task be a stand a lone task like the previous iteration.

Another crucial point:
Relics then Keeps then Caravans; they are all tied to each other. You nerfed relics into the ground, made them impossible to keep, and then wonder why no one engages in keep warfare? This in turn makes keeps worthless, which then in turn makes caravans worthless.

Weird how no one cares about relics/keeps/caravans still huh?

Wed 22 May 2019 9:37 PM by Fayynne

Ardri wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 1:24 PM
Posted this 3+ months ago in response to their "Keep Changes" patch https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=6823

This will change nothing. People will always choose the easiest way to get the most RPs. And right now the easiest way is to just go to the deathmatch task zone and collect free participation rps. As long as this is an option no one will do anything else. You need to drastically reduce these RPs or make the keep task be a stand a lone task like the previous iteration.

Another crucial point:
Relics then Keeps then Caravans; they are all tied to each other. You nerfed relics into the ground, made them impossible to keep, and then wonder why no one engages in keep warfare? This in turn makes keeps worthless, which then in turn makes caravans worthless.

Weird how no one cares about relics/keeps/caravans still huh?

Nailed it, when relics mean something the realm will get together to defend or take them. RIght now they're meaningless and can be retaken by a FG at night when the pop is low.

Wed 22 May 2019 11:11 PM by BaldEagle

Unfortunately, NF keeps will only fix a small portion of the problem. they will still sit on a hill making it actually harder for defenders as they will have to climb a hill to even get to keep.

In reality, NF is the only way to keep the game alive in the long term. I've said it since beta.

Thu 23 May 2019 1:51 AM by Leandrys

I think we can all be pretty sure NF is coming anyway, and honnestly, i really like the idea.

Thu 23 May 2019 8:11 AM by Disco

I strongly doubt that new keeps or even NF will come on the server. if you did not notice, the server is not in BETA anymore, even if it feels like it.
Surely the keeps are not perfect here. especially with all the pets running through all the gates, assasins with healthy support standing on the walls makes it impossible for a group or less to defend.
as long as it remains so that the animists put their mushrooms in windows, on battlements and keep other pets through the keep.

and because at the end there is no one left to defend keeps under these conditions, it also becomes boring for the attackers to pick up a day from empty keeps.

Thu 23 May 2019 8:25 AM by lurker

Disco wrote: ↑
Thu 23 May 2019 8:11 AM
I strongly doubt that new keeps [...] will come on the server.

I dunno...

Ashok wrote: ↑
Sun 12 May 2019 6:54 PM
Like the PvP-event in Atlantis a month ago, it's a temporary event to give you access to some more ground, see "new" hunting grounds and play different classes and styles during those events.
But yes, we are also testing new frontiers keeps with it.

Thu 23 May 2019 9:32 AM by Mac

Disco wrote: ↑
Thu 23 May 2019 8:11 AM
I strongly doubt that new keeps or even NF will come on the server. if you did not notice, the server is not in BETA anymore, even if it feels like it.
Surely the keeps are not perfect here. especially with all the pets running through all the gates, assasins with healthy support standing on the walls makes it impossible for a group or less to defend.
as long as it remains so that the animists put their mushrooms in windows, on battlements and keep other pets through the keep.

and because at the end there is no one left to defend keeps under these conditions, it also becomes boring for the attackers to pick up a day from empty keeps.

I don't get bored taking empty keeps. It's more fun with defenders sure, but until I get RR10, I'll take keeps every day

Thu 23 May 2019 9:33 AM by Sepplord

Mac wrote: ↑
Thu 23 May 2019 9:32 AM
Disco wrote: ↑
Thu 23 May 2019 8:11 AM
I strongly doubt that new keeps or even NF will come on the server. if you did not notice, the server is not in BETA anymore, even if it feels like it.
Surely the keeps are not perfect here. especially with all the pets running through all the gates, assasins with healthy support standing on the walls makes it impossible for a group or less to defend.
as long as it remains so that the animists put their mushrooms in windows, on battlements and keep other pets through the keep.

and because at the end there is no one left to defend keeps under these conditions, it also becomes boring for the attackers to pick up a day from empty keeps.

I don't get bored taking empty keeps. It's more fun with defenders sure, but until I get RR10, I'll take keeps every day

why stop at RR10 then if it doesn't bore you?

Thu 23 May 2019 9:46 AM by Mac

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 23 May 2019 9:33 AM
Mac wrote: ↑
Thu 23 May 2019 9:32 AM
Disco wrote: ↑
Thu 23 May 2019 8:11 AM
I strongly doubt that new keeps or even NF will come on the server. if you did not notice, the server is not in BETA anymore, even if it feels like it.
Surely the keeps are not perfect here. especially with all the pets running through all the gates, assasins with healthy support standing on the walls makes it impossible for a group or less to defend.
as long as it remains so that the animists put their mushrooms in windows, on battlements and keep other pets through the keep.

and because at the end there is no one left to defend keeps under these conditions, it also becomes boring for the attackers to pick up a day from empty keeps.

I don't get bored taking empty keeps. It's more fun with defenders sure, but until I get RR10, I'll take keeps every day

why stop at RR10 then if it doesn't bore you?

Good point. RR13, here I come!

Thu 23 May 2019 1:06 PM by vadox

NF keeps will require more people to participate in siege and since this is not 2004, we don't have population to sustain active warfare. Old keeps are fine - just need more "cookies" in return when taking/attacking them.

DEVs need to realize that population size drives the changes - positive or negative, each change/feature is only viable when number of people that will participate in it is in range of when the feature was introduced to DAoC in the first place. Overall, I believe, NF needs higher population than we currently have and will ever have - think twice before implementing something that will make RvR zones a ghost fields.