Fundamental changes to XPing, pre-50 RvR and battlegrounds

Started 16 Feb 2019
by Tree
in Suggestions
There are basically two camps in DAoC, those that are in support of heavily incentivising XPing in frontier zones, because it increases RvR activitiy, and those that totally hate it.

Well I understand both views and when I go into the frontier to XP I simply do so because some camps there are fundamentally better than everything in the homezone, meaning the upside heavily outweights the downside. But I also recognize that leaning heavily on XP in frontiers creates on a grand scale an overall worse gaming experience for everyone involved. Being ganked, losing time, groups breaking up, people ragequitting and whining on the forums does not contribute positively to the server. At the same time 50 fgs that gank have very little fun doing so and certainly dont get a quality gaming experience either, because the fights are mostly one-sided, dull and unrewarding. Plus it slows down the progress of XPing characters and possibly also makes some of them leave before they reach 50 and actually contribute interesting fights and RvR opportunities to the server.

Thats not a big issue a few weeks after the server launch but will ring more true the longer the server exists and the more 50s roam the frontiers.

Why is frontier XP incentivised regardless? Because it generates the illusion of action and a lively server plus there is the argument of a risk and reward environment. Well yeah that is kinda true, but when you look closer its only a magic trick that does not work on a grand scope and actually sacrifices quality gaming for an illusion of action.

Why dont do it in a better way? I asked the same question on Uthgard and people there... well... they didnt listen like pretty much always. So here it goes, Phoenix listen up. :-)

Why not shift the perspective a little? XPing and having a risk/reward element is great and positive for the server. Offering people opportunities to have RvR experiences before level 50 is great too, because even though lots of players enjoy PvE, DAoC is fundamentally an RvR game. Having one sided fights by design is bad though.

If only there were a place in DAoC where you could PvE and at the same time have somewhat equal fights on every character level.

Hmmmmmm...

Oh I got an idea. There are battlegrounds!

Therefore my proposal is to revise all the existing battlegrounds.

1. Stock all BGs with several fast respawning camps with rare mob types both for solo and 8man group play. Make the best group camp red mobs according to the highest level of each BG.

2. Offer an additional 50% flat XP bonus for XPing in BG.

3. Give another 50% flat XP bonus inside the BG if your realm owns it keep

Enjoy groups wiping each other, solos trying to mess with pulls, stealthers intercepting replacements from the PK, regular keep fights and a lot of other shenanigangs you get when people of the same level range clash with each other.
Sat 16 Feb 2019 5:55 PM by Quik
I have been asking for this since early beta.

I even asked for more BG's for more leveling opportunities, and I usually get people saying it won't work as there won't be enough people and I hate this argument.

It doesn't matter if there are enough people if people just want to level there. As time progresses people will see more and more people leveling in these BG's and that could easily increase the people wanting to join them.
Sun 17 Feb 2019 11:05 AM by jg777
Agree with the BG mob XP adjustments. I also would like to see sub level 40’s removed from RvR tasks participation rewards in the Frontiers. Them dying in Emain/Odins/ Hadrians then returning to PvE didn’t make a meaningful impact out there for RvR. This also forces BG involvement if you want RP’s prior to level 40- far more appropriate and adds more incentive for BG use. Coupled with XP adjustments, I think it’ll create a nice cycle of BG participation for many which will benefit RvR for lower levels. Additionally, XP’ers can have a chance to defend themselves against attackers than in the Frontiers.
Sun 17 Feb 2019 5:40 PM by Quik
jg777 wrote:
Sun 17 Feb 2019 11:05 AM
Agree with the BG mob XP adjustments. I also would like to see sub level 40’s removed from RvR tasks participation rewards in the Frontiers. Them dying in Emain/Odins/ Hadrians then returning to PvE didn’t make a meaningful impact out there for RvR. This also forces BG involvement if you want RP’s prior to level 40- far more appropriate and adds more incentive for BG use. Coupled with XP adjustments, I think it’ll create a nice cycle of BG participation for many which will benefit RvR for lower levels. Additionally, XP’ers can have a chance to defend themselves against attackers than in the Frontiers.

Well how unfair would this be to anyone new though?

Sorry to all you new players, but us people who were here since these started have all hit RR3-4 real fast and easy, you'll need to wait to get yours...

I don't really see how this would be fair to anyone and would only favor the vet's.
Sun 17 Feb 2019 7:52 PM by jg777
Quik wrote:
Sun 17 Feb 2019 5:40 PM
jg777 wrote:
Sun 17 Feb 2019 11:05 AM
Agree with the BG mob XP adjustments. I also would like to see sub level 40’s removed from RvR tasks participation rewards in the Frontiers. Them dying in Emain/Odins/ Hadrians then returning to PvE didn’t make a meaningful impact out there for RvR. This also forces BG involvement if you want RP’s prior to level 40- far more appropriate and adds more incentive for BG use. Coupled with XP adjustments, I think it’ll create a nice cycle of BG participation for many which will benefit RvR for lower levels. Additionally, XP’ers can have a chance to defend themselves against attackers than in the Frontiers.

Well how unfair would this be to anyone new though?

Sorry to all you new players, but us people who were here since these started have all hit RR3-4 real fast and easy, you'll need to wait to get yours...

I don't really see how this would be fair to anyone and would only favor the vet's.

It encourages BG participation pre 40, lowers the greys present in the Frontiers, yet anyone after 40 can run and do Realm tasks so nothing gets lost from how it currently is compared to how it could be. I don’t see what’s unfair?
Sun 17 Feb 2019 7:55 PM by Quik
jg777 wrote:
Sun 17 Feb 2019 7:52 PM
Quik wrote:
Sun 17 Feb 2019 5:40 PM
jg777 wrote:
Sun 17 Feb 2019 11:05 AM
Agree with the BG mob XP adjustments. I also would like to see sub level 40’s removed from RvR tasks participation rewards in the Frontiers. Them dying in Emain/Odins/ Hadrians then returning to PvE didn’t make a meaningful impact out there for RvR. This also forces BG involvement if you want RP’s prior to level 40- far more appropriate and adds more incentive for BG use. Coupled with XP adjustments, I think it’ll create a nice cycle of BG participation for many which will benefit RvR for lower levels. Additionally, XP’ers can have a chance to defend themselves against attackers than in the Frontiers.

Well how unfair would this be to anyone new though?

Sorry to all you new players, but us people who were here since these started have all hit RR3-4 real fast and easy, you'll need to wait to get yours...

I don't really see how this would be fair to anyone and would only favor the vet's.

It encourages BG participation pre 40, lowers the greys present in the Frontiers, yet anyone after 40 can run and do Realm tasks so nothing gets lost from how it currently is compared to how it could be. I don’t see what’s unfair?

What's unfair? What about all the people that already got the easy RP's on their toons? yes it doesn't take long to get RP's here, but considering a lot of people here got max RP's for Cale toons doing this, it would give them a distinct advantage over a newer player who hits Cale and wasn't able to do this and has very few points.

I totally agree with you that it would help some things, I just think it would be unfair since everyone up until now got their farming in, and now your telling new players they can't have the same easy farm.
Sun 17 Feb 2019 9:59 PM by jg777
Quik wrote:
Sun 17 Feb 2019 7:55 PM
jg777 wrote:
Sun 17 Feb 2019 7:52 PM
Quik wrote:
Sun 17 Feb 2019 5:40 PM
Well how unfair would this be to anyone new though?

Sorry to all you new players, but us people who were here since these started have all hit RR3-4 real fast and easy, you'll need to wait to get yours...

I don't really see how this would be fair to anyone and would only favor the vet's.

It encourages BG participation pre 40, lowers the greys present in the Frontiers, yet anyone after 40 can run and do Realm tasks so nothing gets lost from how it currently is compared to how it could be. I don’t see what’s unfair?

What's unfair? What about all the people that already got the easy RP's on their toons? yes it doesn't take long to get RP's here, but considering a lot of people here got max RP's for Cale toons doing this, it would give them a distinct advantage over a newer player who hits Cale and wasn't able to do this and has very few points.

I totally agree with you that it would help some things, I just think it would be unfair since everyone up until now got their farming in, and now your telling new players they can't have the same easy farm.

Easy farming for a BG character? I’d say most people are only focused/caring about endgame RvR and will run through BG’s on their way there with some parking an alt in one possibly. That’s a niche thing that’s quite minor in my opinion though and not really on my radar as something “unfair” because they can still easily compete in the endgame RvR- it’s not like the RvR tasks would be removed completely. Additionally, putting lower players into the BG’s to XP/ gain RP’s early on will allow those players more chances to quickly get Realm points with more players to fight with. Seems like an over all win with a minor inconvenience to a niche playerbase ( and with it being so easy to level up, template and compete in Endgame RvR I’m sure less of those players may even exist). Remember players got to benefit and/or miss out on patch levels that some benefitted from via class abilities that later others missed out on as well- that’s called a “Live” server that’s constantly evolving and changing. Not unfair, that’s just how it works.
Sun 17 Feb 2019 11:27 PM by Wasted_Content
I would love to see them open ALL BGs and also stick some camps in them for levelling. A system similar to Live where PK guards give quests and BP rewards would drive a lot of action into the BGs as people could PvP to level instead of grind. (This would be especially nice for stealthers and other non-pve-essential classes that get the shaft during the grouping process of PvE)
Mon 18 Feb 2019 8:54 PM by Pirhana7
Wasted_Content wrote:
Sun 17 Feb 2019 11:27 PM
I would love to see them open ALL BGs and also stick some camps in them for levelling. A system similar to Live where PK guards give quests and BP rewards would drive a lot of action into the BGs as people could PvP to level instead of grind. (This would be especially nice for stealthers and other non-pve-essential classes that get the shaft during the grouping process of PvE)

Just to be fair they made leveling solo very easy here with kill tasks and collection task, While Ranger is already very good at chain pulling to level, my NS levelled very fast as well off the kill and collection tasks, I didn't group my NS till he was level 45 and that was with a ranger.
Mon 18 Feb 2019 8:57 PM by Pirhana7
Personally I would love to see a reason for level 50 to PVE in the frontiers. They should make it so farming feathers and anything needed to template or complete your character could be obtained from PVE in the frontiers and you get a 3 X bonus for doing it there, and everything was possible solo, groups would still do it better but solo possible. that way level 45+ can actually look around for and fight people that are a challenge instead of it always being green and blue expers.
Mon 18 Feb 2019 9:04 PM by Zansobar
Tree wrote:
Sat 16 Feb 2019 5:43 PM
There are basically two camps in DAoC, those that are in support of heavily incentivising XPing in frontier zones, because it increases RvR activitiy, and those that totally hate it.

Well I understand both views and when I go into the frontier to XP I simply do so because some camps there are fundamentally better than everything in the homezone, meaning the upside heavily outweights the downside. But I also recognize that leaning heavily on XP in frontiers creates on a grand scale an overall worse gaming experience for everyone involved. Being ganked, losing time, groups breaking up, people ragequitting and whining on the forums does not contribute positively to the server. At the same time 50 fgs that gank have very little fun doing so and certainly dont get a quality gaming experience either, because the fights are mostly one-sided, dull and unrewarding. Plus it slows down the progress of XPing characters and possibly also makes some of them leave before they reach 50 and actually contribute interesting fights and RvR opportunities to the server.

Thats not a big issue a few weeks after the server launch but will ring more true the longer the server exists and the more 50s roam the frontiers.

Why is frontier XP incentivised regardless? Because it generates the illusion of action and a lively server plus there is the argument of a risk and reward environment. Well yeah that is kinda true, but when you look closer its only a magic trick that does not work on a grand scope and actually sacrifices quality gaming for an illusion of action.

Why dont do it in a better way? I asked the same question on Uthgard and people there... well... they didnt listen like pretty much always. So here it goes, Phoenix listen up. :-)

Why not shift the perspective a little? XPing and having a risk/reward element is great and positive for the server. Offering people opportunities to have RvR experiences before level 50 is great too, because even though lots of players enjoy PvE, DAoC is fundamentally an RvR game. Having one sided fights by design is bad though.

If only there were a place in DAoC where you could PvE and at the same time have somewhat equal fights on every character level.

Hmmmmmm...

Oh I got an idea. There are battlegrounds!

Therefore my proposal is to revise all the existing battlegrounds.

1. Stock all BGs with several fast respawning camps with rare mob types both for solo and 8man group play. Make the best group camp red mobs according to the highest level of each BG.

2. Offer an additional 50% flat XP bonus for XPing in BG.

3. Give another 50% flat XP bonus inside the BG if your realm owns it keep

Enjoy groups wiping each other, solos trying to mess with pulls, stealthers intercepting replacements from the PK, regular keep fights and a lot of other shenanigangs you get when people of the same level range clash with each other.

Unfortunately on this server the Battlegrounds stop at like level 34 or 35...the xp problems do not even begin until around level 37 or 38 when the task turn ins no longer give a full level of xp, thus forcing you to grind the remainder of the level. This gets worse and worse in the 40s.
Tue 19 Feb 2019 3:08 AM by Wasted_Content
Pirhana7 wrote:
Mon 18 Feb 2019 8:54 PM
Just to be fair they made leveling solo very easy here with kill tasks and collection task, While Ranger is already very good at chain pulling to level, my NS levelled very fast as well off the kill and collection tasks, I didn't group my NS till he was level 45 and that was with a ranger.

Oh I totally agree. I've found the SOLO levelling experience to be quick and clean, which is fine, and I really love it! My suggestion was aimed at 1) providing more groupability outside of soloing and 2) Providing PvP (and something to do besides grind) Pre 50.

A lot of the players here, especially newcomers to the game, are interested in doing more than just grinding their way to 50 on PvE mobs. The BGs offer unique chances to build your character up pre 50, find some sweet pvp action, learn how to handle your character in pvp..etc etc etc.

I think they've made great strides in the way PvE runs and it's a lot faster and way more streamlined but there still isn't much to do besides farm XP items and do /task mobs until you get to big boy RvR.
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