Allow the natural flow of OF DAoC?

Curious how many others would agree but the task system, even the altered version is centralising action to one realm far too much.

It allows for everyone to enter the task zone/realm without very much thought and just go fight based on numbers...

I feel there really is nothing wrong allowing the natural flow of the game that the more popular stages of DAoC consisted of across various servers.

Phoenix does so much right with its custom changes but the tasks really are taking away from what the game was/can be.

By removing tasks you will still maintain a healthy population. Zergs will go back to fighting each other around keep based objectives or dominating an area they choose. And groups will be able to avoid that by not all centralising in the task zone or realm.

This in turn spreads the action back across all 3 realms and should help with the bottle necking these tasks create. They are honestly a fun idea, giving ppl objectives etc but it just isn’t needed for DAoC. Forcing a population this large to such a small area with so many narrow passages just leads to a constant flow of largest numbers Zergs dominating the area till enough of another realm respawn to force back.

I’d love to see task removal even just for a short period to see how the action flows? As people could start making their own decision on where to roam for their groups style of fighting. Sure if people prefer easy action then follow where majority go. But if people like to avoid that and search for other possibilities then it allows for a spread of action.

Such a large DAoC population does not need to be sent to one area. Hope others agree and we see some sort of attempt to test alternatives to tasking.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 6:28 PM by Ashenspire

Old Frontiers is inferior and all these tasks are just bringing their issues to the limelight.

The community was wrong when they voted for OF.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 6:51 PM by Isavyr

Haxchap wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 6:25 PM
...the tasks really are taking away from what the game was/can be.

I'm not sure which phase of DAOC you are referring to, and you don't specify. Classic has major problems, and the tasks have made the system overall much much better, in my opinion. The large participation of the player base seems to confirm that.

DAOC is unforgiving, as it favors those who build their groups with 8 people, with the right composition. This hurts RvR--and we witnessed this in beta, just as we've seen on Uthgard 1 and 2. Blizzard learned with WoW that having 40-man raids limited the viability of its general public into raiding, and its not much different with 8-mans. This isn't a Phoenix problem, this is a Mythic problem.

However, the tasks have created many goals which have allowed casual players to involve themselves and to a degree overcome that hurdle.

Haxchap wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 6:25 PM
Forcing a population this large to such a small area with so many narrow passages just leads to a constant flow of largest numbers Zergs dominating the area till enough of another realm respawn to force back.

1) This is a problem inherent in OF.
2) The task's teleportation appears to relieve narrow passage problem.

Haxchap wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 6:25 PM
As people could start making their own decision on where to roam for their groups style of fighting. Sure if people prefer easy action then follow where majority go. But if people like to avoid that and search for other possibilities then it allows for a spread of action.

People already make their own decision--they decide to go where the action is. If your so-called organic flow was superior, players would be avoiding the tasks, but they're not.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 6:52 PM by deam0

I'd like a natural order of dark age without much intervention of tasks and quests. Zergs fight at keeps, 8 mans roam the areas around, small around that and solo at choke points. The natural order has always been the best for a healthy population. Then again its 2k19 and people need incentive to do anything :/

Fri 22 Feb 2019 6:54 PM by Joc

Yeah, NF would be better IMO with an updated realmwar map.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 7:06 PM by Isavyr

deam0 wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 6:52 PM
I'd like a natural order of dark age without much intervention of tasks and quests. Zergs fight at keeps, 8 mans roam the areas around, small around that and solo at choke points. The natural order has always been the best for a healthy population. Then again its 2k19 and people need incentive to do anything :/

Basically this ignores game theory and human nature, which didn't change in the last 18 years (sorry to say). People always respond to incentives, whether its 2001 or 2019. Something most people don't realize is that DAOC classic only did well due to being relatively close to its release, and not many other options. The fact WOW pulled so many players meant they did something right. Some food for thought.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 7:30 PM by deam0

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 7:06 PM
deam0 wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 6:52 PM
I'd like a natural order of dark age without much intervention of tasks and quests. Zergs fight at keeps, 8 mans roam the areas around, small around that and solo at choke points. The natural order has always been the best for a healthy population. Then again its 2k19 and people need incentive to do anything :/

Basically this ignores game theory and human nature, which didn't change in the last 18 years (sorry to say). People always respond to incentives, whether its 2001 or 2019. Something most people don't realize is that DAOC classic only did well due to being relatively close to its release, and not many other options. The fact WOW pulled so many players meant they did something right. Some food for thought.

The incentive should be you get to play the game, you gain RPs so your character progresses. Not all this extra task stuff that isn't necessary. Did anyone you know say oh I heard about this daoc freeshard starting up, but I'm only going to play there if they give me lil extra sumthin when I play. People enjoy the game, they will play it in many shapes are forms, I dont think tasks and football are necessary to have a healthy population. That's just my opinion though. I don't think it goes against game theory or human nature. If you like the game you'll play it without extra RPs for playing it in a certain area. It's usually the extra tacky stuff that gives people reasons to leave. Look at things over time on live sever, just gives more reasons to leave than stay imo.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 8:00 PM by Patron

I love the rvrtasks. They lead to instant action.
Without task u need to see where the action is and there would be less rvr acrion because player dont see where to go and they dont get any rp reward even they got chainkilled.

So definetly, we need the rvr tasks.
Its the #1 feature of Phoenix and a very very good thing.
I never played NF, so idc.

The natural flow is not so good and a reason why daoc is not good for casuals.
We need the rvr task or maybe player drop off.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 8:10 PM by jhaerik

Patron wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 8:00 PM
I love the rvrtasks. They lead to instant action.
Without task u need to see where the action is and there would be less rvr acrion because player dont see where to go and they dont get any rp reward even they got chainkilled.

So definetly, we need the rvr tasks.
Its the #1 feature of Phoenix and a very very good thing.
I never played NF, so idc.

The natural flow is not so good and a reason why daoc is not good for casuals.
We need the rvr task or maybe player drop off.

NF > OF >>> OF with mini games.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 8:12 PM by Amp_Phetamine

jhaerik wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 8:10 PM
Patron wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 8:00 PM
I love the rvrtasks. They lead to instant action.
Without task u need to see where the action is and there would be less rvr acrion because player dont see where to go and they dont get any rp reward even they got chainkilled.

So definetly, we need the rvr tasks.
Its the #1 feature of Phoenix and a very very good thing.
I never played NF, so idc.

The natural flow is not so good and a reason why daoc is not good for casuals.
We need the rvr task or maybe player drop off.

NF > OF >>> OF with mini games.

Remember that's just your opinion.

In my opinion. I believe the RvR tasks are amazing.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 8:20 PM by Aervine

You could just go to the now task realms for RvR if you don't want to zerg, it seems like the majority of the players do want to join the tasks and zerg fighting though.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 9:37 PM by Kloogyz

Zergs is Daoc...
Flags is not Daoc...
RP rewards for Killing players is Daoc...
RP rewards for dieing is not Daoc...
Learn to drive is Daoc...
Autopilot tasks is not Daoc...
Caravans Raping your frames is not daoc...

I have nothing to learn to the staff and Gm's, but as a player, this is really pissing me off, and to be honest, i'm afraid about thoses changes and the future of the server...

Fri 22 Feb 2019 9:37 PM by hend

To me the main problem is the justification of the tasks.
Actually there is no justification, its just 100% brain dead, tasks are only made to farm rps without any realm spirit, without any other goal. It just look like unreal tournament without the fps skill required and alot more players. As haxy said we are losing a bit the daoc spirit. Its just an easy rp bait to bring people in RvR.

EVEN if to me tasks are a good thing cause it brings alot of people in RvR and a constant action, it really needs to be fully focus on real dark age of camelot goals, capturing the keeps and the relics. I mean, invading a realm always mean that on dark age, attacking the relics.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 10:03 PM by cma78

Players are scattered all over the place now, it's harder for stealthers to find spots where people go to now, also small groups won't do so well anymore.

With the old rvr tasks lowbies could run out and get a bub each time it was friendly to solo and small groups but also low level, now you need speed to go around and stand at some totem, my group agrees with me completely that The old rvr system was much better for everyone in general.

The old rvr tasks made sense, defend this, attack this and so on, everyone know what spot to go to. all these new totem ctf wannabe mode, i'm not digging it.

You know what the old gods say, if it aint broke, don't fix it.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 10:24 PM by Kermz

cma78 wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 10:03 PM
Players are scattered all over the place now, it's harder for stealthers to find spots where people go to now, also small groups won't do so well anymore.

With the old rvr tasks lowbies could run out and get a bub each time it was friendly to solo and small groups but also low level, now you need speed to go around and stand at some totem, my group agrees with me completely that The old rvr system was much better for everyone in general.

The old rvr tasks made sense, defend this, attack this and so on, everyone know what spot to go to. all these new totem ctf wannabe mode, i'm not digging it.

You know what the old gods say, if it aint broke, don't fix it.

I agree.
The new RVR task system only makes things worse.
I dont see a way to enjoy the RVR as a soloer without speed anymore.

Standing at a flag with other speedless players just waiting to get farmed by a fg or a zerg.

I cant even get jumped by stealthers anymore, cus they dont know where to get some action now.
1 task every hour ? ... where the fun in that. i could actually RVR and level at the same time when being lvl 45+
Thats not really a viable option anymore, its just too slow.

Keep takes for soloers is almost impossible to join ? ... I mean, how would u know which keep ppl are taking when theres no specefic task guiding you to one.

I'm afraid if this change isnt fixed alot of ppl who likes to solo will prolly reroll stealthers or leave.
and when ppl leave the server slowly dies.
its a snowball effect. -.-

Fri 22 Feb 2019 10:41 PM by sabyrtuth

Everyone complained about bottlenecks and the task zone being too small for so many players. Now that the area for tasks is extended and teleports are optional everyone is too scattered? lol no one is forcing you to stand at a flag or go hold balls either.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 10:59 PM by recluse

Ditch the “ball” objective entirely - it has no place in daoc and seems really tacked on

Put the Realm Boss (Lady/Beastmaster etc) inside a random keep controlled by the home realm (or don’t spawn it at all if they have no keeps) instead of out in the open.

Award RPs as objectives are completed, rather than at the end of 60 mins. Too long to wait.

Add value to the OG relics and make them worth taking

Porting to the dominate tasks seems okay...

Fri 22 Feb 2019 11:30 PM by Numatic

My opinion

It doesnt work. I know the Devs had their heart in the right place, but the players live to break these things and reduce them to their core mechanics. They wont follow the spirit of the objectives if they can find a way around it.

Tbh the previous task system was fine except it just needed some tweaks. If this was an event, that would be fine, but this cant be the new system. It's too custom with too many loopholes to work as intended. The emain supply master is the new zerg spot. So that didnt fix that issue. Noone escorts caravans. The ball thing just feels...wrong.

I just dont personally like it. Maybe some do. I like that the Devs are trying new things. But sometimes you just have to take a step back and admit it doesnt work and to try something else.

My suggestion

Do the system like last time, except remove keeps as a task. Keep them as a bonus objective. Continue with your fight/dominate theme in the invading realm. (Please remove porting. Its suppose to be more difficult for the defending realm to protect the enemy PK zone) when you dominate one zone, it opens up the next. The previous zone must be defended or the defending realm may take it back. This will cause more roaming and less zerging (at least on paper). If the defending realm cant take it back by the time the invading realms take the new zone, that zone locks and the zone that was just conquered is the new zone for the defenders to take back. If the defenders can take back all of their zones, they win and a new realm is chosen. If not they lose.

This will be a push all the way to the border keeps. So to give an example

Task: Dominate emain
Result - Midgard wins
New task Defend Emain- Dominate Breifine
Result -Midgard win
Emain locks
New task Defend Briefine- Dominate Cruchuan Gorge (or mount collary, make this random)
Result Hibernia takes back Briefine
New task Defend emain - Dominate Briefine
Result Hibernia takes back Emain
HIBERNIA WINS

New task, Attack Odins gate.

You get the jist of it.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 11:37 PM by florin

In my opinion there should be only one task - take the keep. That is in the spirit of the game and had purpose and a goal congruent to taking relics and dominating.

And that’s the task that was removed.

Also greys need to be addressed.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 11:40 PM by Luluko

yeah this new task system really incentives me to just die or hit something then go afk until I get my 2,2k rpes which is prlly a similar amount of rps I would get running arround in none task zones so why bother, zerg surfing can be fun but if the other zerg is just too big it stops being fun

Fri 22 Feb 2019 11:52 PM by numbos

There is no need or will to solo, group up with your bros and fight other groups, or take keeps. All of these things fail in comparison with just mindlessly sticking a zerg and making 15k/20krps an hour. The server is not even 2 months old and there are RR9 toons. I am even RR8, i dinged off a 4k rp task that I lost and was half afk for. Why attempt to leave the task zone or do anything but zerg when you make such ridiculous rps? Tasking is destroying the server and I've been faithfully playing and testing phoenix since the alpha launch. My toon was 9l9 the day the beta closed which I played to the end, and I gaurentee by the end of feburary I will be rr9. Not even two months. No one will split from the zerg with such ridiculous RP gain, there is no point. People arent doing this for the immersive task quests or capture points its just bodies slamming into each other to farm rps. This is not daoc.

Sat 23 Feb 2019 12:18 AM by Druth

The natural flow has 39 players now, started with 5000, lost 2000 the first month and after that 1000 every 2 months till it had 1000 players.

The task system solves a fundemental issue with DaoC, getting casuals to RvR.
People don't understand that casuals can't be forced to RvR, and they don't RvR if they think they wont gain anything from doing so.

Getting rps for dying solves this, and encouraging zerging gives them security in a large group (is a false security, because enemy is also a zerg).

And games need casuals having fun, and while this is only 1½ month old it actually managed, so far, to retain it's population almost intact.

I also don't like "balls" and the whole "laggavan" system, but I'm a major fan of them being willing to change things, when it seems to have issues.
And the old task system kept almost all action in one zone, and was over often way to fast.
I like 1 hour tasks.

Sat 23 Feb 2019 12:26 AM by Isavyr

numbos wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 11:52 PM
its just bodies slamming into each other to farm rps. This is not daoc.

This is the DAOC I remember. RPs has always driven DAOC players.

cma78 wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 10:03 PM
Players are scattered all over the place now, it's harder for stealthers to find spots where people go to now, also small groups won't do so well anymore.

Your claims:
1) Players are scattered
2) Harder for stealthers to find spots to go
3) Small groups won't do well

Basically condition 1 is what creates action for stealthers and small-mans.

Sat 23 Feb 2019 1:02 AM by florin

numbos wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 11:52 PM
There is no need or will to solo, group up with your bros and fight other groups, or take keeps. All of these things fail in comparison with just mindlessly sticking a zerg and making 15k/20krps an hour. The server is not even 2 months old and there are RR9 toons. I am even RR8, i dinged off a 4k rp task that I lost and was half afk for. Why attempt to leave the task zone or do anything but zerg when you make such ridiculous rps? Tasking is destroying the server and I've been faithfully playing and testing phoenix since the alpha launch. My toon was 9l9 the day the beta closed which I played to the end, and I gaurentee by the end of feburary I will be rr9. Not even two months. No one will split from the zerg with such ridiculous RP gain, there is no point. People arent doing this for the immersive task quests or capture points its just bodies slamming into each other to farm rps. This is not daoc.

Not only are the rps ridiculous but they are now meaningless. Except for those few who earned them the old way...but even then people are farming mindless waves of zombies throwing themselves into the breach. For myself I’ll do what i planned on doing - gank people in df like the old days. Sure it will take me months longer but I will have the satisfaction of earning it.

These tasks bring no satisfaction!

Sat 23 Feb 2019 3:38 PM by Sepplord

sabyrtuth wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 10:41 PM
Everyone complained about bottlenecks and the task zone being too small for so many players. Now that the area for tasks is extended and teleports are optional everyone is too scattered? lol no one is forcing you to stand at a flag or go hold balls either.

Defias and a handful of Players did, while a similar amount disagreed, and a huge amount was simply ingame playing.

The only way the current system makes sense to me is that they want to test a lot of mechanics and then Switch to something that streamlines what works and remove what doesnt work.

We will see what happens, but to me personally the 5hours of RVR yesterday was the least fun i have had since Server started

Sat 23 Feb 2019 5:14 PM by Quik

So, the server is actually slowly growing...currently we have 3k people playing and it will hit 4k in a couple hours...

The solution from people in this thread is to remove what the GM's created that is EASILY the most popular thing on the server short of maybe a Cercei TG raid?

Yeah, lets stop the majority from having fun doing whatever they want (zerging/dying/sitting/balling/etc) just because a few people in this thread are butthurt that the server doesn't focus on them more? Solo's need more action? Solo needs speed? Small man needs more action?

DAoC was never designed around soloers, it simply tried to help them get involved and Pheonix does the same. Assassins Envenom skill is stupidly OP here and gives them a huge advantage over most classes. Soloers aren't happy with that so now they want speed boost so they can run down the classes with speed that are MEANT to be fast. I used to have sympathy for soloers but I don't anymore. Listening to the nonstop whining about wanting more and more buffs and more speed and more RvR designed for them, it gets really old.

Small man's do fine here and I know they do because I run small man with my Skald. Yes we get rolled occasionally, but we constantly find other players roaming the RvR task zones and it isn't hard for us to avoid the zergs, and before people say Hib/Alb don't zerg I am calling bull**** considering yesterday morning with the new tasks going, it was Hib leading most of the point systems I saw along with Mid.

This server has more action in RvR than any other freeshard has ever hoped to achieve, and now you want to take that away so a few players here can enjoy it more...

We have had plenty of freeshards with old fashioned RvR and lets see how many are still active...oh yeah Uthgard has 39 right now, head on over and enjoy.

I want to thank the dev's for doing what ANY server should do which is focus on what a majority of your players want, not just a select few. Right now casuals are competing against the elitists and not doing bad. I am right between the 2 and I am having a blast with the non stop action.

Right now everyone can get to RR3 easy enough and stay competitive without worrying about a new toon getting rolled every single time they enter RvR. This system helps close the gap and keep more involved.

I am the last person to tell people to leave the server, but if you want to change Pheonix to Uth, why not just go back to Uth and let us that are having fun ion Pheonix, continue having fun.

Druth nailed this on the head a few posts back.