ramack wrote: ↑Sun 5 Aug 2018 6:27 PMI think it should at least be a 2-3 days. 5-7 is good imo. A longer timer seems to keep realm loyalty. At first it was nice on live to switch instantly depending on action but that was one of the things that eventually took my interest out of live. The game just kind of became a deathmatch in my eyes and took away something important from the game that is hard to describe.
.Laadna wrote: ↑Sun 5 Aug 2018 1:08 PMI'd say at least three days, maybe more. If people can change realm almost anytime they want, it could kill realm dynamics : I could swap realm just because my realm lost DF entrance, because I can't find a party (so I don't even have to ask myself if I could start one), because an enemy realm is "zerging", not to mention relics. And people will start to behave as lunatic teenagers just looking for immediate fun.
Kyzuma wrote: ↑Sun 5 Aug 2018 9:18 PMHey all, I'm the original creator of this thread/poll and just wanted to make a few comments.
I’d be content with a 4-hour to 12-hour timer, but I prefer the 8-hour option by far. I like the 8-hour one best for a handful of reasons. First, I like to play all realms because I enjoy exploring and playing through all three realm’s lands and classes. Second, I have friends who only like to play one realm, but different ones, so I’d like to keep playing with each of them from time to time without it being a huge hassle. Third, I know people are worried about abuse with RVR and realm switching but I honestly can’t think of one realistic way that an 8-hour timer could allow abuse. Lastly, I’m sure I’m not the only person who likes to play more than one realm. I think if the switching timer were to be extended longer than 12-hours it would cause too much hassle and annoyance, probably resulting in people feeling they had to choose a single realm and stick to it. Not too great for people like me.
I'm sorry, is there anything else you tried to say besides "shut up muh freedom" ? That is indeed a lot of words.JaggedOne wrote: ↑Sat 11 Aug 2018 4:12 AMWhy do you think people should be forced to play the game the way you think is best ? There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to have *any* wait period for switching realms. The way it works in beta - I log on and am presented with the 3 realms and I choose which one I want to enter at this time - is exactly the way it should work at release. There is no reason for it *not* to work this way.
Period.
JaggedOne wrote: ↑Sat 11 Aug 2018 4:24 AMKyzuma wrote: ↑Sun 5 Aug 2018 9:18 PMHey all, I'm the original creator of this thread/poll and just wanted to make a few comments.
I’d be content with a 4-hour to 12-hour timer, but I prefer the 8-hour option by far. I like the 8-hour one best for a handful of reasons. First, I like to play all realms because I enjoy exploring and playing through all three realm’s lands and classes. Second, I have friends who only like to play one realm, but different ones, so I’d like to keep playing with each of them from time to time without it being a huge hassle. Third, I know people are worried about abuse with RVR and realm switching but I honestly can’t think of one realistic way that an 8-hour timer could allow abuse. Lastly, I’m sure I’m not the only person who likes to play more than one realm. I think if the switching timer were to be extended longer than 12-hours it would cause too much hassle and annoyance, probably resulting in people feeling they had to choose a single realm and stick to it. Not too great for people like me.
Thanks for starting this thread !!!
You mention 4, 8 , and 12-hour timers. But the list of reasons you provide (quoted above) are all arguments for *no* timer. This is supposed to be a fun game. What if I like something about each realm, and want to spend time on each one, whenever I feel like it ? The concept of "realm loyalty" may be a major factor to some people, but it is not to me, and I have every bit as much right to that opinion as the person who values so-called "realm royalty". The only remaining argument is that of "RvR abuse", and that is not a problem with open realm switching because even with timers, a person can meet someone on a private Discord and pass on any "realm spy" info that they want. This is the 21st century after all. Oh yeah, and it's a game.
No limits !!!
Kyzuma wrote: Personally, I dislike the idea of having no timer to switch realms because it creates a system which allows mainstream abuse. There would be no rules or countermeasures in place to prevent people from instantly switching realms which could result in a wide range of abuse and gameplay issues revolving around RVR and gameplay in RVR zones. For an example, back when DF was open to all realms I’ve already experienced an event where people who were playing on the same realm as me switched to another one and wiped the group I was leveling with because they wanted the spot for their own toons so they could level there. That’s not right, and there are countless other ways/scenarios where similar abuse could happen with no timer.
Skorra wrote: ↑Mon 6 Aug 2018 11:11 AMIn my opinion the missing realm timer destroyed the Live Server RVR. 12 hours are very gracious, no need to change it. I mean without the old realm loyalty, Phoenix is just a worse version of Live.
@Quik: If you hate Alb, than delete your chars and you can immediately start new at mid/hib.
Ombrix wrote: ↑Wed 17 Oct 2018 12:47 PMIt’s difficult to make everyone happy, and i hope they will find a way.
My opinion about this thread.
The main problem is : cross realming, to abuse of some kind of reward without act on it ( like df/relic bonuses etc etc )
The second problem is : we have to care about people play this game for more than 15years, and don’t wan’t to play only 1 realm. Without any abusing, just because of change a bit sometime.
My view is : I played this game till 2001, and i really enjoy switching realm. Why ? Because this way have improve my gameplay by 100%, just because of playing ennemies class to know more about the class. Right now is the Old Daoc setup. Lot of people like it very much, and maybe didn’t play at this time that much on live. ( not born or whatever x) ) so they like to log some class to know exactly what they got here.
Just because of some cross realmers abuse we punish some people who just like to play every class ... humm... it’s very difficult.
I like the huge timer to cross realm like 8h/12h because people got attachment for his realm. But how we can keep this, and keep the fun to play every class when we wan’t ...?
Maybe some kind of penality by cross realming ? Can’t enter in df for a amount of time because of cross realming. Or you can but you don’t earn any seals. I don’t really know how this can works, but let’s try to just give penality for the cross realmer who wan’t abuse. And doesn’t give penality to the people who just wan’t to play every class for fun..
Thanks for reading
defiasbandit wrote: ↑Tue 5 Feb 2019 10:36 PMQuik wrote: ↑Tue 5 Feb 2019 10:23 PMI have always been against the 12 hours timer. Personally a 2-3 hour timer is more then enough.
This is a freeshard people, it is not a hardcore game that we are paying money for. It is suppose to be fun for everyone, not just for those who seem to want to push realm loyalty.
Realm loyalty is great but where is realm loyalty when groups won't take NS/BM/Hero's because they want the 3rd shroomer or bomber?
If the realm I am playing doesn't want to be loyal to me, why should I be forced to stay there and not try another realm for awhile?
Stop letting a few people force everyone to play one style and let people just have fun...ON A FREE SHARD.
Yeah I would like it if I didn't need to run in slow motion across multiple frontiers, because I forgot to roll a speed class.A hastener buff potion to make the game more fun and not slow paced slog. Its about fun right? Who is being harmed by my hastener potion. One style Play one of 3 classes that has speed or run in slowmo.
Quik wrote: ↑Tue 5 Feb 2019 11:28 PMdefiasbandit wrote: ↑Tue 5 Feb 2019 10:36 PMQuik wrote: ↑Tue 5 Feb 2019 10:23 PMI have always been against the 12 hours timer. Personally a 2-3 hour timer is more then enough.
This is a freeshard people, it is not a hardcore game that we are paying money for. It is suppose to be fun for everyone, not just for those who seem to want to push realm loyalty.
Realm loyalty is great but where is realm loyalty when groups won't take NS/BM/Hero's because they want the 3rd shroomer or bomber?
If the realm I am playing doesn't want to be loyal to me, why should I be forced to stay there and not try another realm for awhile?
Stop letting a few people force everyone to play one style and let people just have fun...ON A FREE SHARD.
Yeah I would like it if I didn't need to run in slow motion across multiple frontiers, because I forgot to roll a speed class.A hastener buff potion to make the game more fun and not slow paced slog. Its about fun right? Who is being harmed by my hastener potion. One style Play one of 3 classes that has speed or run in slowmo.
Yep but you have an easy fix...play a class with speed, boom, fixed.
Realm switch timer just puts an unnecessary wait for people who might want to play on another realm.
The harm in allowing non speed classes to have speed means it ruins what makes speed classes special.
Realm switch timer being 2-3 hours has ZERO effect on the game...speed pots would have a huge impact.
DirtyAlb wrote: ↑Tue 5 Feb 2019 10:13 PMThere shouldn’t be a timer. If I can’t find an rvr group in one realm, my choice is log or pve. I should be able to pop over to another realm see if I can get an rvr group there. I just want to play rvr. Could care less about relics. With task zones for rvr nobody cares about relics either. So this so called cross rearming falls under who cares.
).
phixion wrote: ↑Fri 8 Feb 2019 2:59 AMLower team timer will just result in people following relics to play on the ezmode realm. We had it all on live.
In my opinion 12 hours is too low.
FUINY7 wrote: ↑Mon 18 Feb 2019 9:51 PMThe pool vote talk by itself, like in many other topic, there is an army of fanatic that have way too much exposition here, when you read messages it feel like most are against, but it's a false positive ratio since only those are the one willing to spend more time arguing.
It's a 18 YO game, none with common sense care about having a timer above the logical need which is around 4H, the vast majority of peoples just want to play...
maybe a small minority will try to exploit it, but in the end, you stick to your friends and that mean you stick to one realm most of the time, and what goes in 1 way will go in the other way, balanced.
If you care, you should get a life.
.Sepplord wrote: ↑Tue 19 Feb 2019 6:35 AM???
People don't switch "with" their toon
how is that supposed to happen?
And people logging into different realms to check chats/who area/etc... can do that on a lowlevel just fine, then log back to their realm
FUINY7 wrote: ↑Tue 19 Feb 2019 5:53 PM.Sepplord wrote: ↑Tue 19 Feb 2019 6:35 AM???
People don't switch "with" their toon
how is that supposed to happen?
And people logging into different realms to check chats/who area/etc... can do that on a lowlevel just fine, then log back to their realm
If you think the actual solution avoid that... it's just a nuisance for peoples that want to play the full game.
.
And anyways that kind of spy doesn't weight at all in the realm actions and limits between 2h and 6h should meet the same results as the one in place
and again check the pool vote, no need more useless debate listening to a outspoken minority..
Sepplord wrote: ↑Tue 19 Feb 2019 6:35 AM
???
People don't switch "with" their toon
how is that supposed to happen?
And people logging into different realms to check chats/who area/etc... can do that on a lowlevel just fine, then log back to their realm
Ashok wrote: ↑Mon 25 Feb 2019 12:07 PMWhile Phoenix does not strive to be a "full classic experience", we embrace classic values; like realm pride and your role & standing within that faction in the grand scheme. x-realming is of course a part of it.
You play Alb today and mid tomorrow; without waiting time in between (for most folks though).
Decide and live with your decision (if you want to play realm X or play with your friends Y).
12 hours are a compromise between the teams vision and the players needs.
This won't change, as said countless times before.
Druth wrote: ↑Mon 18 Mar 2019 6:43 AM[...] I suspect my family has a meeting before I come home, where they decide how to mess up my day the most [...]
Druth wrote: ↑Mon 18 Mar 2019 6:43 AMLove arguments as "makes sense" in a completely subjective discussion...
The 12 hour timer is not meant as a timer for people who live in DaoC.
Normal people log out, then sleep for 8 hours, go to work for 8 hours, come home and deal with what ever issue their family has conjured up (I suspect my family has a meeting before I come home, where they decide how to mess up my day the most), and finally after 20 hours they can finally sit down and play.
In other words, you play to much DaoC if 12 hour timer is an issue for you.
The realm timer is implemented to help you see your gambling addiction.
milehighblazer wrote: ↑Mon 18 Mar 2019 7:52 PMIt's not game breaking, but as someone who is not a part of a big community on my home realm, it's frustrating that I can't just hop over and make an alb stealther to see how they play or solo around a bit. If I can't find a group in a reasonable amount of time or something fun to do with my character, i'm resigned to rolling another toon in that specific realm.
Eidorf wrote: ↑Thu 21 Mar 2019 11:19 AMYou need to add another option to the poll - Remove the timer.
I find it annoying, just remove it so I can play what I want, when I want.
worldknown wrote: ↑Fri 22 Mar 2019 6:53 PMWhat does 12 hours give you that 2 or 4 hours doesn't? Lol at the people arguing that 12 hours isn't enough....
Druth wrote: ↑Tue 19 Mar 2019 7:59 AMmilehighblazer wrote: ↑Mon 18 Mar 2019 7:52 PMIt's not game breaking, but as someone who is not a part of a big community on my home realm, it's frustrating that I can't just hop over and make an alb stealther to see how they play or solo around a bit. If I can't find a group in a reasonable amount of time or something fun to do with my character, i'm resigned to rolling another toon in that specific realm.
It's this very thing they want to discourage.
Form relations in your realm, create action/groups yourself. They want you to get involved in the realm you picked.
It might be a clumsy way of forcing people to get involved, but I think the majority prefers it like that.
And I mean, if they made the timer 1 hour, then what?
You log Mid, find it boring, log out and wait 1 hour. Log back on Alb, find it boring, then log out and log back in Mid and find out the last 2 hours on Mid were excactly what you were looking for, but that the fun had ended 5 mins before you came back on, and that you just wasted 2 hours NOT playing DaoC. Think that be less frustrating?
AngelRose wrote: ↑Sun 7 Apr 2019 5:57 AMDruth wrote: ↑Tue 19 Mar 2019 7:59 AMIt's this very thing they want to discourage.
Form relations in your realm, create action/groups yourself. They want you to get involved in the realm you picked.
It might be a clumsy way of forcing people to get involved, but I think the majority prefers it like that.
, and your response is just "nope, I don't like it"
Quik wrote: ↑Sun 7 Apr 2019 4:16 PMOne simple thing always stands out to me on the timer...
In MY opinion the timer should mainly be there to discourage jumping realms to help with relic raids or a massive raid of some sort on another realm so people can't just jump over and take advantage of this. I get this completely and I am fine with it.
People who demand realm loyalty, those are the people hurting the game. Just because YOU want to play one realm all the time, what right do you have to demand others play the same way? This is not a paid game and no physical rewards are given out in any way. Why do people feel they need to FORCE how they play amongst others? Some people enjoy playing all 3 realms and they should be encouraged to do this if that's how they enjoy the game. Let people play how THEY want as long as it doesn't hurt the game, and swapping realms if you aren't having fun on one realm is not hurting the game, it is helping THAT player to stay in the game, albeit on another realm.
Now the people that say 12 hours is no different then 8 hours, this is the stupidest of the arguments. Again, why force a 12 hour timer? If I am playing Mid and I am frustrated that I am not finding a group or just not enjoying the realm, now I have to wait half a day to change. If you want to argue that it is as simple as sleeping and then working and then swapping realms, sure that is fine, unfortunately a LOT of people sleep and don't go right to work, but might like to swap realms on DAoC but they can't. I personally would be inclined to play another game and you risk the chance of losing this player if he gets into another game. Not sure why people think 4 hours is too short, but the only argument against 4 hours is, I don't like it so you shouldn't be able to!. Again, stupid as hell and only hurts the game.
Just like the wonderful QoL features the dev's added in helped the game, dumb little lockouts like this just hurt the game.
Stop trying to FORCE realm loyalty when people haven't even found a realm they really like yet, and stop acting like everyone has the same work schedule as you.
4 hours is more than enough for a lockout in a free to play game that is almost 20 years old that is on its last leg with every new freeshard that releases. Instead of pushing people away, we need to encourage them to play and this is a bad way to make people want to stay. We aren't living in 2001, we are living in a time with thousands of free to play games with no lockouts in PvP because they learned most people don't like it, just the hardcore people who want to force everyone to play there style (you know, 8man and such).
If the game doesn't adapt to 2019, like it was doing in beta slowly but surely, it will become Uth3. Pheonix live has COMPLETELY reversed course from what they said in beta they were going to do that I am wondering if the dev's were replaced?
Druth wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 5:15 AM[...]
To accomodate the new generation of realm-bunnies, the server took the jump from 7 days on Uthgard, to 8 hours here. That's a 95% reduction in timer...
I sleep 7-8 hours/night, so even on weekends a new day would allow me to play another realm.
Classic DaoC didn't even allow realm switch on a server you already played on!
And finally realm pride... it's more than just staying in your realm of choice. It's about avoiding people becoming friends with opponents, and then have the situations where you don't help your own realm, because "sorry he's my friend".
That stuff drives away more casuals than them realising they have to sleep before they can change realms.
I don't have any data supporting my above claim, just like no one else has any data supprting realm timer is driving away more people than it keeps.
May i use it too, or is it @Druth ? ^^
In summary - there is no valid reason, besides you don't think it should happen. You can type out pages, but you keep repeating yourself.Druth wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 5:15 AMQuik wrote: ↑Sun 7 Apr 2019 4:16 PMOne simple thing always stands out to me on the timer...
In MY opinion the timer should mainly be there to discourage jumping realms to help with relic raids or a massive raid of some sort on another realm so people can't just jump over and take advantage of this. I get this completely and I am fine with it.
People who demand realm loyalty, those are the people hurting the game. Just because YOU want to play one realm all the time, what right do you have to demand others play the same way? This is not a paid game and no physical rewards are given out in any way. Why do people feel they need to FORCE how they play amongst others? Some people enjoy playing all 3 realms and they should be encouraged to do this if that's how they enjoy the game. Let people play how THEY want as long as it doesn't hurt the game, and swapping realms if you aren't having fun on one realm is not hurting the game, it is helping THAT player to stay in the game, albeit on another realm.
Now the people that say 12 hours is no different then 8 hours, this is the stupidest of the arguments. Again, why force a 12 hour timer? If I am playing Mid and I am frustrated that I am not finding a group or just not enjoying the realm, now I have to wait half a day to change. If you want to argue that it is as simple as sleeping and then working and then swapping realms, sure that is fine, unfortunately a LOT of people sleep and don't go right to work, but might like to swap realms on DAoC but they can't. I personally would be inclined to play another game and you risk the chance of losing this player if he gets into another game. Not sure why people think 4 hours is too short, but the only argument against 4 hours is, I don't like it so you shouldn't be able to!. Again, stupid as hell and only hurts the game.
Just like the wonderful QoL features the dev's added in helped the game, dumb little lockouts like this just hurt the game.
Stop trying to FORCE realm loyalty when people haven't even found a realm they really like yet, and stop acting like everyone has the same work schedule as you.
4 hours is more than enough for a lockout in a free to play game that is almost 20 years old that is on its last leg with every new freeshard that releases. Instead of pushing people away, we need to encourage them to play and this is a bad way to make people want to stay. We aren't living in 2001, we are living in a time with thousands of free to play games with no lockouts in PvP because they learned most people don't like it, just the hardcore people who want to force everyone to play there style (you know, 8man and such).
If the game doesn't adapt to 2019, like it was doing in beta slowly but surely, it will become Uth3. Pheonix live has COMPLETELY reversed course from what they said in beta they were going to do that I am wondering if the dev's were replaced?
The most popular PvP game right now is Fortnite.
So running by your logic, removing: Gear (apart from cosmetic), leveling, realms, class difference, and RR's. Would somehow make "DaoC" Phoenix the most popular game in the world.
Or maybe it would not be DaoC anymore?
Thats the problem, you are nit-picking things you personally wants changed, and calling the server "old-fashion" (not litterally) and not up to date with current gaming world. But when do you stop changing it to current gaming world???
Pay to win?
DaoC's whole core system of PvP making you even better in PvP is outdated, as is the system of unique realms.
So are you sure you want to push the agenda of a more "modern" game?
To accomodate the new generation of realm-bunnies, the server took the jump from 7 days on Uthgard, to 8 hours here. That's a 95% reduction in timer...
I sleep 7-8 hours/night, so even on weekends a new day would allow me to play another realm.
Classic DaoC didn't even allow realm switch on a server you already played on!
And finally realm pride... it's more than just staying in your realm of choice. It's about avoiding people becoming friends with opponents, and then have the situations where you don't help your own realm, because "sorry he's my friend".
That stuff drives away more casuals than them realising they have to sleep before they can change realms.
I don't have any data supporting my above claim, just like no one else has any data supprting realm timer is driving away more people than it keeps.
AngelRose wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 6:48 AMIn summary - there is no valid reason, besides you don't think it should happen. You can type out pages, but you keep repeating yourself.
Plus, 'back in they day', you couldn't play different realms on the same server, but you could play all the realms due to server choice. That is not an option here. I would like to play hib, but due to friends, I started on Mid. My friends play sportatcially, so I would love an opportunity to level on hib when they are not on. I only have a few hours a night to play. If, I log on to mid and they are not on...I am stuck. If I get a day off and log on to hib to level, thinking my friends are not playing..then they message me they will be on later, I am not able to join them.
There is absolutely no difference between a 2 hour time and a 12 hour time when it comes to how it affects realm jumping. It just makes 'for the realm' people happy. And, to be blunt, I don't play to make them happy. Best thing about DAOC was all the options among the 3 realms...options we ALL had since the game began. Even when live had to start merging, they realized locking people out of realms was a bad idea.
AngelRose wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 6:48 AMIn summary - there is no valid reason, besides you don't think it should happen. You can type out pages, but you keep repeating yourself.
Plus, 'back in they day', you couldn't play different realms on the same server, but you could play all the realms due to server choice. That is not an option here. I would like to play hib, but due to friends, I started on Mid. My friends play sportatcially, so I would love an opportunity to level on hib when they are not on. I only have a few hours a night to play. If, I log on to mid and they are not on...I am stuck. If I get a day off and log on to hib to level, thinking my friends are not playing..then they message me they will be on later, I am not able to join them.
There is absolutely no difference between a 2 hour time and a 12 hour time when it comes to how it affects realm jumping. It just makes 'for the realm' people happy. And, to be blunt, I don't play to make them happy. Best thing about DAOC was all the options among the 3 realms...options we ALL had since the game began. Even when live had to start merging, they realized locking people out of realms was a bad idea.
.Druth wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 5:15 AMQuik wrote: ↑Sun 7 Apr 2019 4:16 PMOne simple thing always stands out to me on the timer...
In MY opinion the timer should mainly be there to discourage jumping realms to help with relic raids or a massive raid of some sort on another realm so people can't just jump over and take advantage of this. I get this completely and I am fine with it.
People who demand realm loyalty, those are the people hurting the game. Just because YOU want to play one realm all the time, what right do you have to demand others play the same way? This is not a paid game and no physical rewards are given out in any way. Why do people feel they need to FORCE how they play amongst others? Some people enjoy playing all 3 realms and they should be encouraged to do this if that's how they enjoy the game. Let people play how THEY want as long as it doesn't hurt the game, and swapping realms if you aren't having fun on one realm is not hurting the game, it is helping THAT player to stay in the game, albeit on another realm.
Now the people that say 12 hours is no different then 8 hours, this is the stupidest of the arguments. Again, why force a 12 hour timer? If I am playing Mid and I am frustrated that I am not finding a group or just not enjoying the realm, now I have to wait half a day to change. If you want to argue that it is as simple as sleeping and then working and then swapping realms, sure that is fine, unfortunately a LOT of people sleep and don't go right to work, but might like to swap realms on DAoC but they can't. I personally would be inclined to play another game and you risk the chance of losing this player if he gets into another game. Not sure why people think 4 hours is too short, but the only argument against 4 hours is, I don't like it so you shouldn't be able to!. Again, stupid as hell and only hurts the game.
Just like the wonderful QoL features the dev's added in helped the game, dumb little lockouts like this just hurt the game.
Stop trying to FORCE realm loyalty when people haven't even found a realm they really like yet, and stop acting like everyone has the same work schedule as you.
4 hours is more than enough for a lockout in a free to play game that is almost 20 years old that is on its last leg with every new freeshard that releases. Instead of pushing people away, we need to encourage them to play and this is a bad way to make people want to stay. We aren't living in 2001, we are living in a time with thousands of free to play games with no lockouts in PvP because they learned most people don't like it, just the hardcore people who want to force everyone to play there style (you know, 8man and such).
If the game doesn't adapt to 2019, like it was doing in beta slowly but surely, it will become Uth3. Pheonix live has COMPLETELY reversed course from what they said in beta they were going to do that I am wondering if the dev's were replaced?
The most popular PvP game right now is Fortnite.
So running by your logic, removing: Gear (apart from cosmetic), leveling, realms, class difference, and RR's. Would somehow make "DaoC" Phoenix the most popular game in the world.
Or maybe it would not be DaoC anymore?
Thats the problem, you are nit-picking things you personally wants changed, and calling the server "old-fashion" (not litterally) and not up to date with current gaming world. But when do you stop changing it to current gaming world???
Pay to win?
DaoC's whole core system of PvP making you even better in PvP is outdated, as is the system of unique realms.
So are you sure you want to push the agenda of a more "modern" game?
To accomodate the new generation of realm-bunnies, the server took the jump from 7 days on Uthgard, to 8 hours here. That's a 95% reduction in timer...
I sleep 7-8 hours/night, so even on weekends a new day would allow me to play another realm.
Classic DaoC didn't even allow realm switch on a server you already played on!
And finally realm pride... it's more than just staying in your realm of choice. It's about avoiding people becoming friends with opponents, and then have the situations where you don't help your own realm, because "sorry he's my friend".
That stuff drives away more casuals than them realising they have to sleep before they can change realms.
I don't have any data supporting my above claim, just like no one else has any data supprting realm timer is driving away more people than it keeps.
Quik wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 8:32 PMQuik wrote: ↑Sun 7 Apr 2019 4:16 PM4 hours is more than enough for a lockout in a free to play game that is almost 20 years old that is on its last leg with every new freeshard that releases. Instead of pushing people away, we need to encourage them to play and this is a bad way to make people want to stay. We aren't living in 2001, we are living in a time with thousands of free to play games with no lockouts in PvP because they learned most people don't like it, just the hardcore people who want to force everyone to play there style (you know, 8man and such).
If the game doesn't adapt to 2019, like it was doing in beta slowly but surely, it will become Uth3. Pheonix live has COMPLETELY reversed course from what they said in beta they were going to do that I am wondering if the dev's were replaced?
Druth I respect a lot of your opinions on here, but where in the world did you get that I want DAoC to be like Fortnite? Because I mentioned it needs to adapt? It does need to adapt but not to that degree and I never said it did. The adapting I am talking about is simply making the game to everyone today including those with short attention spans or who like to play a variety of classes of realms. Games now don't pigeon hole you into a specific place like they used to, most games are trying to give you more and more options. Fornite shouldn't even be mentioned in the same category since it is strictly a shooter, DAoC is a realm unto itself.
Druth wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 5:15 AMQuik wrote: ↑Sun 7 Apr 2019 4:16 PMOne simple thing always stands out to me on the timer...
In MY opinion the timer should mainly be there to discourage jumping realms to help with relic raids or a massive raid of some sort on another realm so people can't just jump over and take advantage of this. I get this completely and I am fine with it.
People who demand realm loyalty, those are the people hurting the game. Just because YOU want to play one realm all the time, what right do you have to demand others play the same way? This is not a paid game and no physical rewards are given out in any way. Why do people feel they need to FORCE how they play amongst others? Some people enjoy playing all 3 realms and they should be encouraged to do this if that's how they enjoy the game. Let people play how THEY want as long as it doesn't hurt the game, and swapping realms if you aren't having fun on one realm is not hurting the game, it is helping THAT player to stay in the game, albeit on another realm.
Now the people that say 12 hours is no different then 8 hours, this is the stupidest of the arguments. Again, why force a 12 hour timer? If I am playing Mid and I am frustrated that I am not finding a group or just not enjoying the realm, now I have to wait half a day to change. If you want to argue that it is as simple as sleeping and then working and then swapping realms, sure that is fine, unfortunately a LOT of people sleep and don't go right to work, but might like to swap realms on DAoC but they can't. I personally would be inclined to play another game and you risk the chance of losing this player if he gets into another game. Not sure why people think 4 hours is too short, but the only argument against 4 hours is, I don't like it so you shouldn't be able to!. Again, stupid as hell and only hurts the game.
Just like the wonderful QoL features the dev's added in helped the game, dumb little lockouts like this just hurt the game.
Stop trying to FORCE realm loyalty when people haven't even found a realm they really like yet, and stop acting like everyone has the same work schedule as you.
4 hours is more than enough for a lockout in a free to play game that is almost 20 years old that is on its last leg with every new freeshard that releases. Instead of pushing people away, we need to encourage them to play and this is a bad way to make people want to stay. We aren't living in 2001, we are living in a time with thousands of free to play games with no lockouts in PvP because they learned most people don't like it, just the hardcore people who want to force everyone to play there style (you know, 8man and such).
If the game doesn't adapt to 2019, like it was doing in beta slowly but surely, it will become Uth3. Pheonix live has COMPLETELY reversed course from what they said in beta they were going to do that I am wondering if the dev's were replaced?
The most popular PvP game right now is Fortnite.
So running by your logic, removing: Gear (apart from cosmetic), leveling, realms, class difference, and RR's. Would somehow make "DaoC" Phoenix the most popular game in the world.
Or maybe it would not be DaoC anymore?
Thats the problem, you are nit-picking things you personally wants changed, and calling the server "old-fashion" (not litterally) and not up to date with current gaming world. But when do you stop changing it to current gaming world???
Pay to win?
DaoC's whole core system of PvP making you even better in PvP is outdated, as is the system of unique realms.
So are you sure you want to push the agenda of a more "modern" game?
To accomodate the new generation of realm-bunnies, the server took the jump from 7 days on Uthgard, to 8 hours here. That's a 95% reduction in timer...
I sleep 7-8 hours/night, so even on weekends a new day would allow me to play another realm.
Classic DaoC didn't even allow realm switch on a server you already played on!
And finally realm pride... it's more than just staying in your realm of choice. It's about avoiding people becoming friends with opponents, and then have the situations where you don't help your own realm, because "sorry he's my friend".
That stuff drives away more casuals than them realising they have to sleep before they can change realms.
I don't have any data supporting my above claim, just like no one else has any data supprting realm timer is driving away more people than it keeps.
Druth wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 9:35 PMYes, there are many free to play PvP games, like Fortnite.
Their success is not due to no realm timer, it's a multitude of things. One thing being that in games like Fortnite there is no grind, and no ranks making others better.
So I read "adapting to 2019" as making Phoenix modern, and the most modern PvP game is Fortnite.
You single out realm timer as that one thing that will enhance Phoenix, but I think you are strongly affected by the perception of what you personally want, and not what the server needs.
I personally believe a good server comes from a strong unity within realms (realm-pride), and you likely believe it comes from a strong server unity.
It's not that I don't think the later is important, just that the former is more important.
And just as you think not being able to change realm easy, I think even being able to change realm (without deleting chars) is harmful to the server.
In the best of worlds there'd be 3 servers, and 3 times the number of people wanting to play classic DaoC, that way there'd be no need for the option of changing realms.
But there is not, and thus (to me personally) the half a day of timer seems like a fine solution.
Quik wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 9:58 PMFortnite never even entered my mind. I was more thinking RPG Online games like ESO or the coming CU, nothing like straight shooters.
And I never singled out the realm timer, I was simply responding to the realm timer since that is what this thread is all about. I have other threads talking about removing pots, removing ports, and other things that I personally think are hurting the game more. I just think the realm dumber is a dumb idea that does more harm than good.
milehighblazer wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 9:46 PMYou could literally have near limitless characters of any realm, at any time on live by switching servers. Phoenix obviously doesn't have the population to support more than one.
Is that a serious concern of your's, the "sorry he's my friend" scenario? You're saying someone is going to engage in a fight, notice its his lurikeen buddy then /sit and become a conscience observer? That seems pretty hard to buy.
Also, what's wrong with making friends on all of the realms? It allows you to be a part of a small group of buddies, while on another realm you might be a part of a large PvP or raiding guild. The thing about realm "pride" is that you aren't going to convert people like me to buy into that. I am going to play every realm regardless, the timer just makes it a giant pain in my ass and honestly causes me to log less hours in game. Boo hoo for me, I know, but I know I'm not the only one. How does the realm pride faction even know which of their fellow compatriots are loyal and not splitting time on another realm? I am not trying to be rude at all, I just don't see the drawbacks of a 1-2 hour timer. You couldn't do any sort of relevant recon/affect any fights, and you encourage people to stay logged in more often.
AngelRose wrote: ↑Mon 8 Apr 2019 10:32 PMHow dare you not want to play with strangers, as opposed to friends you have had for years!!
PingGuy wrote: ↑Mon 22 Apr 2019 2:47 PMThe devs here have listened to plenty of things, it's not like they suddenly become jerks for not bending to the will of the players 100% of the time.
Quik wrote: ↑Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:54 PMPingGuy wrote: ↑Mon 22 Apr 2019 2:47 PMThe devs here have listened to plenty of things, it's not like they suddenly become jerks for not bending to the will of the players 100% of the time.
I'm at a complete loss on what they listen too...
They ask for a vote on porting and a majority vote against it (small margin but still majority) but they keep ports anyway.
They don't allow streaming without 10 min delay but then a small amount of players want the no delay stream and I still saw more people say no, they still decide to allow it even though I still saw a majority say they did not want it.
Not sure who they are listening too, but it isn't a majority of players here on the forums trying to give ideas =(
Quik wrote: ↑Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:54 PMPingGuy wrote: ↑Mon 22 Apr 2019 2:47 PMThe devs here have listened to plenty of things, it's not like they suddenly become jerks for not bending to the will of the players 100% of the time.
I'm at a complete loss on what they listen too...
They ask for a vote on porting and a majority vote against it (small margin but still majority) but they keep ports anyway.
They don't allow streaming without 10 min delay but then a small amount of players want the no delay stream and I still saw more people say no, they still decide to allow it even though I still saw a majority say they did not want it.
Not sure who they are listening too, but it isn't a majority of players here on the forums trying to give ideas =(
Taliveth wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 10:22 PMI'm a new Phoenix player (like 2 days) and When DAoC began, I started on Tristan as ALB. Then EA came and all the server switches, I ended up on whatever the Co-Op server was because I always hated RVR. (Gwaine, I think)
In that light, I hate the timer. I fully understand and appreciate it's reasoning and effects. If only there were a co-op server for those who couldn't care less about killing other realms. (One on one dueling is always cool, though.) One benefit of the co-op server is being able to try out all the different races and classes to see which one you like the best, without being accused of cross-realming.
My opinion on the length of the timer to keep rvr cross-realming because of zergs? How long does a zerg take? I think any delay will upset those who want to switch teams. 1-2 hours is plenty.
And ANOTHER thing! The rules and programming that sniff out cross-realmers should be more sophisticated than being at the same location playing the game. What if I play at the library? The rule totally sucks in that respect.
stinsfire wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 10:59 PMTaliveth wrote: ↑Mon 27 May 2019 10:22 PMI'm a new Phoenix player (like 2 days) and When DAoC began, I started on Tristan as ALB. Then EA came and all the server switches, I ended up on whatever the Co-Op server was because I always hated RVR. (Gwaine, I think)
In that light, I hate the timer. I fully understand and appreciate it's reasoning and effects. If only there were a co-op server for those who couldn't care less about killing other realms. (One on one dueling is always cool, though.) One benefit of the co-op server is being able to try out all the different races and classes to see which one you like the best, without being accused of cross-realming.
My opinion on the length of the timer to keep rvr cross-realming because of zergs? How long does a zerg take? I think any delay will upset those who want to switch teams. 1-2 hours is plenty.
And ANOTHER thing! The rules and programming that sniff out cross-realmers should be more sophisticated than being at the same location playing the game. What if I play at the library? The rule totally sucks in that respect.
What are they supposed to do if you login with a different account from a different PC from a different IP?
Yokahu wrote: ↑Tue 28 May 2019 3:09 AM3) Players with realm pride will not switch regardless, the rest of the players find that outdated.
Yokahu wrote: ↑Tue 28 May 2019 5:12 PM
They already do thou. Everyone can switch realms after 12h, so that sentiment won’t change.
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑Tue 28 May 2019 10:02 PM
Last realmhoppers were kicked from the guild /or left the guild for some reasons.
And if you wanna know what happens if the realm switch timer falls, take a look on live. That has nothing to do with DAoC, it`s more like a shooter.
Kohi wrote: ↑Wed 29 May 2019 3:11 AMToo much realm bunnies already, timer should be set on 1 week. Still waiting for realmpride being rewarded as we were told back i beta, btw.
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑Tue 28 May 2019 10:02 PMAnd if you wanna know what happens if the realm switch timer falls, take a look on live. That has nothing to do with DAoC, it`s more like a shooter.
Wasted_Content wrote: ↑Wed 29 May 2019 6:50 AMKohi wrote: ↑Wed 29 May 2019 3:11 AMToo much realm bunnies already, timer should be set on 1 week. Still waiting for realmpride being rewarded as we were told back i beta, btw.
What? No. Realm pride? I play this game for FUN. I enjoy ALL the classes on ALL 3 realms.
REALM PRIDE!? I don't even.How are you attributing "PRIDE" ...to an entire REALM on a video game..... to this equation? What is there to even have PRIDE about!? It's PIXELS.
Take pride in your friends, or in your ability to coordinate, or your leadership.... but to try to aim it at a specific realm?
I am..so lost by this type of completely outdated mindset.
Wasted_Content wrote: ↑Wed 29 May 2019 6:50 AMKohi wrote: ↑Wed 29 May 2019 3:11 AMToo much realm bunnies already, timer should be set on 1 week. Still waiting for realmpride being rewarded as we were told back i beta, btw.
What? No. Realm pride? I play this game for FUN. I enjoy ALL the classes on ALL 3 realms.
REALM PRIDE!? I don't even.How are you attributing "PRIDE" ...to an entire REALM on a video game..... to this equation? What is there to even have PRIDE about!? It's PIXELS.
Take pride in your friends, or in your ability to coordinate, or your leadership.... but to try to aim it at a specific realm?
I am..so lost by this type of completely outdated mindset.
Druth wrote: ↑Wed 29 May 2019 7:12 AMWasted_Content wrote: ↑Wed 29 May 2019 6:50 AMKohi wrote: ↑Wed 29 May 2019 3:11 AMToo much realm bunnies already, timer should be set on 1 week. Still waiting for realmpride being rewarded as we were told back i beta, btw.
What? No. Realm pride? I play this game for FUN. I enjoy ALL the classes on ALL 3 realms.
REALM PRIDE!? I don't even.How are you attributing "PRIDE" ...to an entire REALM on a video game..... to this equation? What is there to even have PRIDE about!? It's PIXELS.
Take pride in your friends, or in your ability to coordinate, or your leadership.... but to try to aim it at a specific realm?
I am..so lost by this type of completely outdated mindset.
To many of us, it is a thing.
I play this server to get a feel of daoc 2001-2004, or so. And in that period you had one realm (on each server), and realm pride was a very big deal.
People would dump many plats on repairing relic gates.
They would suicide from PvE raids to defend realm.
They would equip people for free, to help out realm mates.
They would spend a lot of time to come rez people (back when xp were hard earned).
Etc...
All this falls apart when you don't know if you or "them" have changed realm tomorrow.
Make no mistake, I see the positives from low realm timer, but people who don't see the negatives really lack objective thinking.
Edit: And I am also surprised that sticking with one realm isn't rewarded more.
Uthred wrote: ...
There will be "realmpride bonus" in some form for people who dont switch realms but stick to it.
...
We may put in a realmpride bonus. Mentioned that several times before. We will decide that after monitoring the live population for some time.
...
Wasted_Content wrote: ↑Wed 29 May 2019 6:53 AMStoertebecker wrote: ↑Tue 28 May 2019 10:02 PMAnd if you wanna know what happens if the realm switch timer falls, take a look on live. That has nothing to do with DAoC, it`s more like a shooter.
This is a huge logical fallacy. There are SO MANY DIFFERENT problems with how live fails that you trying to lump in their realm switch timer with all the other garbage makes for an incredibly weak argument.
edit: said "live works" and it definitely doesn't work at all
. I would rather not have to wait a day to do what I was just having fun doing. The whole make people logoff for days to switch realms, just makes people want to leave the game, because if they have to wait that long, they aren't gaming. If the mechanisms were in place to take care of things from another realm where you are currently, then it would be no biggy to me. Druth wrote: ↑Wed 29 May 2019 7:12 AMWasted_Content wrote: ↑Wed 29 May 2019 6:50 AMKohi wrote: ↑Wed 29 May 2019 3:11 AMToo much realm bunnies already, timer should be set on 1 week. Still waiting for realmpride being rewarded as we were told back i beta, btw.
What? No. Realm pride? I play this game for FUN. I enjoy ALL the classes on ALL 3 realms.
REALM PRIDE!? I don't even.How are you attributing "PRIDE" ...to an entire REALM on a video game..... to this equation? What is there to even have PRIDE about!? It's PIXELS.
Take pride in your friends, or in your ability to coordinate, or your leadership.... but to try to aim it at a specific realm?
I am..so lost by this type of completely outdated mindset.
To many of us, it is a thing.
I play this server to get a feel of daoc 2001-2004, or so. And in that period you had one realm (on each server), and realm pride was a very big deal.
People would dump many plats on repairing relic gates.
They would suicide from PvE raids to defend realm.
They would equip people for free, to help out realm mates.
They would spend a lot of time to come rez people (back when xp were hard earned).
Etc...
All this falls apart when you don't know if you or "them" have changed realm tomorrow.
Make no mistake, I see the positives from low realm timer, but people who don't see the negatives really lack objective thinking.
Edit: And I am also surprised that sticking with one realm isn't rewarded more.
djegu wrote: ↑Wed 29 May 2019 10:27 PMYou are right and i've stated that before, the 12h is useless it doesn't prevent realm hoping and doesn't help realm pride, it's either you increase the realm timer (bad idea IMO) or you shorten it (better in the long run)
Nachtfee wrote: I dont know what u all have with a 12H switch timer ? log out before u go to bed and next day after Breakfast u can switch to your realm of choice so i dont undestand this discussion
Kyllikki wrote: ↑Mon 10 Jun 2019 9:41 AMit's fine to try to defend this timer, but this is the problem: there is no data showing that it is necessary while the negative effects are concrete
Since we have only 3 realms and not 8 and with all the ways of communication today, it looks really stupid if you`re not able bringing 8 ppl together.Kyllikki wrote: ↑Mon 10 Jun 2019 9:41 AMYour comments is like saying to a user: "it's your fault if you don't know how to do", that's just rly stupid.
If the timer was 24h, you'd be begging for 12h , arguing how little impact the change has to zerging. 12h is perfect.Fayynne wrote: ↑Sun 16 Jun 2019 4:12 AM4 hours stops zerg hopping like you're so worried about and allows people to play other realms before rvring with their groups at night
Loki wrote: ↑Sun 16 Jun 2019 9:15 AMIf the timer was 24h, you'd be begging for 12h , arguing how little impact the change has to zerging. 12h is perfect.Fayynne wrote: ↑Sun 16 Jun 2019 4:12 AM4 hours stops zerg hopping like you're so worried about and allows people to play other realms before rvring with their groups at night
Well , there is no realm pride because of realm hoppers. I play Mid only, and don't plan to move anywhere. And reducing the timer or removing it would only make things worse, it will also lead to the server becoming what Uthgard was in the end. People taking empty keeps and waiting for others to take them back (in this case the same people will be swapping to take them back).Fayynne wrote: ↑Sun 16 Jun 2019 3:49 PMLoki wrote: ↑Sun 16 Jun 2019 9:15 AMIf the timer was 24h, you'd be begging for 12h , arguing how little impact the change has to zerging. 12h is perfect.Fayynne wrote: ↑Sun 16 Jun 2019 4:12 AM4 hours stops zerg hopping like you're so worried about and allows people to play other realms before rvring with their groups at night
No I'd be asking for 4. There is no such thing as realm pride, the timer is only in place to stop people zerg hopping. It makes sense to have a near 20 year old game that we only have access to one third of.
Kyllikki wrote: ↑Sun 9 Jun 2019 9:41 PMNachtfee wrote: I dont know what u all have with a 12H switch timer ? log out before u go to bed and next day after Breakfast u can switch to your realm of choice so i dont undestand this discussion
1) I have friends on 3 realm (not the same guild), I can't play the afternoon because I don't know on which realm friends will need me in prime time = game time divided by 2.
2) Friends spread over the 3 realms and can't switch = we're not enough to build a full grp = we just don't play.
This is particularly visible for "8v8" grp and you can say that many do not care but that's already -5/10 players on the server because of this timer, only. just for people I know.
Loki wrote: ↑Sun 16 Jun 2019 9:24 PMAny way, the topic is pointless. Devs have said over and over that the timer will not be changed or removed. Besides, people aching so badly to be able to swap whenever they want will keep being miserable and quit because that's just who they are. I am so bored of hearing the same excuse every day, bla bla bla 20 year old game, why don't they just let us do whatever we want.
You have a convenient way of misinterpreting things. First , I didn't call you miserable, I said people who ask for no realm timer will keep being miserable because they will just swap to the bigger zerg or be forced to not play their favorite class in favor of whatever can get more rps faster.Juanito wrote: ↑Mon 17 Jun 2019 2:41 PMLoki wrote: ↑Sun 16 Jun 2019 9:24 PMAny way, the topic is pointless. Devs have said over and over that the timer will not be changed or removed. Besides, people aching so badly to be able to swap whenever they want will keep being miserable and quit because that's just who they are. I am so bored of hearing the same excuse every day, bla bla bla 20 year old game, why don't they just let us do whatever we want.
Hi,
Sorry but to me this is non sense. Im not saying you are right or wrong, that is not point.
However, you said "Besides, people aching so badly to be able to swap whenever they want will keep being miserable and quit because that's just who they are".
and
"Devs have said over and over that the timer will not be changed or removed."
First, thank you for calling me miserable because I THINK the timer should be LOWERED. I didnt know that being miserable was so easy these days.
Second, maybe it should ring somes bells, that since Day1 and a population decreasing from 4K people to hardly 1.3K, feedbacks arguing that this timer causes trouble keeps pouring the forum.
Finally, one of Uthred last's answer to Raunz, who was way to vindicative btw, was saying that removing /lowering the timer had supports from withing their dev team. Plus, only fools don't change their minds.
hf,
I don't get people like you. Have you lived in a forest your whole life ? How does me responding validate your opinion. Do you know typing doesn't take a lot of effort ? P a t h e t i c .Juanito wrote: ↑Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:21 PMOf course I wanted to make you react to the strong words you used !
Loki wrote: ↑Tue 18 Jun 2019 8:51 AMI don't get people like you. Have you lived in a forest your whole life ? How does me responding validate your opinion. Do you know typing doesn't take a lot of effort ? P a t h e t i c .Juanito wrote: ↑Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:21 PMOf course I wanted to make you react to the strong words you used !
You're just regurgitating whatever brainfarts stuck to you as intelligent in /advice.Juanito wrote: ↑Tue 18 Jun 2019 9:19 AMLoki wrote: ↑Tue 18 Jun 2019 8:51 AMI don't get people like you. Have you lived in a forest your whole life ? How does me responding validate your opinion. Do you know typing doesn't take a lot of effort ? P a t h e t i c .Juanito wrote: ↑Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:21 PMOf course I wanted to make you react to the strong words you used !
I tried to have a conversation with you, it doesnt work.
Bye
Kaseylol wrote: ↑Wed 26 Jun 2019 7:30 PMYes we people think about what to type before we type it. Do you? Did you plan on presenting an argument or just being upset that I made one?
Are you upset that on weekends I wake up and play daoc sometimes? What exactly is your problem? Is this one of those 'there are starving children in Africa so no complaint has any merit because it's not as bad' arguments?
Try to articulate yourself a bit better.
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