Jewelcrafting Rework - Phoenix Freeshard

Jewelcrafting will be reworked entirely. The general idea was ok but the implementation was a bit unwieldy resulting in a mess of too many useless items. However, instead of trying to somehow improve upon it by making it easier to generate good rogs we will scrap the system and replace it with a deterministic use for your crappy rogs.

You will be able to turn your ROG accessories into a single kind of rog dust, unsure yet if this will happen via some new (summonable) scrapper npc or salvaging or some other process.
Rog dust will allow you to increase an already existing stat or resist on a rog accessory by 1, you will be able to choose the stat and it will work up to the highest value of the spellcrafting gem (up to +17 for resists, up to +28 for stats).

Please note that the exact details on how to acquire the dust as well as the exact costs and caps of the stat increase are still subject to change.
The entire system is intended as a means for established players to save time by using up their resources when equipping alts: instead of spending lots of time to find the perfect rogs it will become feasible to use good rogs and just upgrade them. It's not really meant to be used for the first template on the first character, instead for new players it should provide a bit more gold from selling the dust accumulated while leveling.

You will receive up to 1 dust per rog tier, the highest rog tier, level 51 items, will provide up to 11.

A legendary spellcrafter is required to perform the upgrade, it is likely that only level 51 / rog tier 11 items will qualify for upgrades.
To increase a stat by 1 you will require:
Dust: rog tier * 5 * new stat + new stat * new stat * new stat * new stat / 100, truncated
Gem: the highest gem (Perfect) for the wanted stat, for acuity any acuity stat (int, cha, pie, emp) gem will work
Ash: dust cost * 3

For resists the highest gem for the wanted resist is required and the ash and dust cost is multiplied by 3.

Example costs:
Level 51 rog, increase existing Strength from 1 to 2:
110 dust, Perfect fiery essence jewel, 330 Phoenix Ash

Level 51 rog, increase existing Strength from 9 to 10:
650 dust, Perfect fiery essence jewel, 1950 Phoenix Ash

Total for increasing existing Strength from 1 to 10 on a level 51 rog:
3219 dust, 9 Perfect fiery essence jewel, 9657 Phoenix Ash

Level 51 rog, increase existing Strength from 16 to 17:
1770 dust, Perfect fiery essence jewel, 5310 Phoenix Ash

Level 51 rog, increase existing Slash resist from 1 to 2:
330 dust, Perfect watery shielding jewel, 990 Phoenix Ash

Level 51 rog, increase existing Slash resist from 9 to 10:
1950 dust, Perfect watery shielding jewel, 5850 Phoenix Ash

Sat 30 May 2020 8:54 PM by thirian24

Am i reading this correctly in that going from 1-10 str, itll require 300-ish Lvl51 rogs and 97,000 feathers?

Sat 30 May 2020 8:55 PM by illusiveshyt

so will i be able to turn all the remnants i have into this dust? also the amount of ash required seems ridiculous imo.

Sat 30 May 2020 8:56 PM by daytonchambers

thirian24 wrote: Am i reading this correctly in that going from 1-10 str, itll require 300-ish Lvl51 rogs and 97,000 feathers?

That's what I'm seeing.

If that is indeed the case there better be some new way to acquire feathers coming or this is gonna be a hard pass from me, those costs are ridiculous.

Sat 30 May 2020 8:58 PM by gnefner

thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sat 30 May 2020 8:54 PM
Am i reading this correctly in that going from 1-10 str, itll require 300-ish Lvl51 rogs and 97,000 feathers?

Ya, I read it like that too... Seems fair!

Sat 30 May 2020 8:58 PM by Corou

I guess they put a "o" too much in there.

Sat 30 May 2020 9:05 PM by

gruenesschaf

gnefner wrote: ↑
Sat 30 May 2020 8:58 PM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sat 30 May 2020 8:54 PM
Am i reading this correctly in that going from 1-10 str, itll require 300-ish Lvl51 rogs and 97,000 feathers?

Ya, I read it like that too... Seems fair!

The cost is basically a soft cap and hence scales rather dramatically. Increasing from 1 to 5 would only be about 5k feathers and you can do it for all 8 accessories and maybe for more than just 1 stat each.

Sat 30 May 2020 9:07 PM by daytonchambers

Why not leave the system in place as it is with the option to be able to spellcraft a blank as if it were any other piece of armor?

And if you're hellbent on adding a gold sink (which every major revision or upgrade to the game seems to be intended to do) then add an ash cost to spellcrafting that blank

Sat 30 May 2020 9:11 PM by cutbacks

Umm...i dont ilke this..I've made plenty temps with the current system, maybe somehow on the rolls of polished and imperfect blanks on use, increase the bottom cap to be higher util, that is my only complaint..Having a polished mp item, using it and get a 40 util? Should maybe be a min of 65 util...

Cuts

Sat 30 May 2020 9:13 PM by lolmatron

Sweetness!

Main upside is that you can easily get that +1 resist you migh be lacking in a template..

And those high end rogs will become even more highend and tailored to ones needs!
I dislike it, less rog searching and more mindless pve-raiding... resources for this should be obtainable with BPs too
Add dusts as BP purchase too... (?) 10BP/dust perhaps.

Sat 30 May 2020 9:14 PM by shintacki

You are either wildly overestimating the amount of lvl51 RoGs people have laying around or there is some miscommunication about the required materials. Seems absurd and hardly worthwhile for most players.

Sat 30 May 2020 9:19 PM by mentario

Feathercost is ridicoulos....

I think the whole process is to complicated....

just make those salvaged ressources more simplified.

maybe its always the same tier u get from salvaging, but it has an %age of quality immediatly, then u can choose weather to roll it or not...

Sat 30 May 2020 9:31 PM by Eldoktor

Well the cost is actually WAYYYYYYYYYY too much
The RNG part of the blank was boring
But the cost you're telling us atm....is pretty Fcked up

5800 ASHES!!!!! 58K feathers for 1% resist well nobody would do that xD

Sat 30 May 2020 9:40 PM by Lacyn HowboutDah

Once again, another brilliant job guys. Something that didn't need to be fixed, altered! This new system sounds far more superior than the last!

Sat 30 May 2020 9:41 PM by Quik

Eldoktor wrote: ↑
Sat 30 May 2020 9:31 PM
5800 ASHES!!!!! 58K feathers for 1% resist well nobody would do that xD

I think it is horribly overpriced, but I think you underestimate what people will spend money/feathers on to get ANY kind of extra advantage here LOL

Sat 30 May 2020 9:41 PM by Lacyn HowboutDah

Eldoktor wrote: ↑
Sat 30 May 2020 9:31 PM
Well the cost is actually WAYYYYYYYYYY too much
The RNG part of the blank was boring
But the cost you're telling us atm....is pretty Fcked up
5800 ASHES!!!!! 58K feathers for 1% resist well nobody would do that xD

its an amazing idea, please dont be a negative nancy!

Sat 30 May 2020 9:44 PM by keen

Finally it is time to craft THE ULTIMATE ROG! Who will achieve it first?

Sat 30 May 2020 9:49 PM by Prometheus

I like the idea of upgrading RoG's but the cost has to be worth the benefits, high utility RoG's will become more scarce if we can't craft them anymore, so we will be forced to tweak lower utility RoG's enough to hopefully turn them into something we can use.

Sat 30 May 2020 10:04 PM by bluefalcon420

This, to me, rates among the stupidest changes this server has decided to implement.

When did you guys take on the broadsword team to make decisions for you?

Sat 30 May 2020 10:11 PM by Nephamael

Currently there is a lot of nice lvl45-51 rogs out there.

I feel like you shud at least give the improvement option for rogs lvl48+ or so.

Sat 30 May 2020 10:17 PM by zephyria

I agree the cost for the ash is going to be crazy unless you can get in on raids a lot and not everyone has the time to join and build up feathers for that. From a crafters stand point i don't like it.

Sat 30 May 2020 10:39 PM by gotwqqd

What costs are they trying to drive down due to inflation?

Sat 30 May 2020 11:17 PM by Tyrlaan

Another change nobody really asked for.

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 30 May 2020 8:46 PM
It's not really meant to be used for the first template on the first character, instead for new players it should provide a bit more gold from selling the dust accumulated while leveling.

If anything new players would have to cling to every dust they get while levelling because they´ll need it later on for their templates and there will be less ROGs on the market (no too-good-to-resalvage-ROGs from Jewelcrafting anymore) while all the established players have no use for it because they have their maxed (weaponless) templates already - and I don´t think they need extra help to equip their umpteenth alt quicker. It also kinda takes the random out of ROG which - while sometimes causing frustration or joy - is a major reason to spend time in this game.

Sat 30 May 2020 11:38 PM by Chaskha

So, 20k feathers will usually get me an item going from 60 to 80 utility but I would need 100k feathers for a +9 strength?
It's not coherent.

I'm all happy that you want to improve jewelry but that's not, in my eyes, an improvement.

The use of SC gems to tell what we want is great - what about using the remnants we have plus the SC gem to determine what's going to be the ROG declinaison ?
eg:
- polished ring remnant + perfect blood essence => Sturdy enchanted ring
- polished cloak remnant + perfect fiery essence => Mighty enchanted cloak

and yes, why not add phoenix dust in the mix to improve the chance of getting a nice utility somehow but not up to 100k feathers, come on.

Sat 30 May 2020 11:43 PM by JUSTNSANE

Is this going to be a vote? Because i rather RNG than the trash this idea even gives. That is way too much ash, especially when ash has a crap drop rate, and is typically only bought in bulk from feathers. But pheonix devs do whatever they want anyhow. So be it.

Sun 31 May 2020 1:15 AM by watbrif

What has always annoyed me is the fact that hybrids are much more expensive to equip than other classes (especially casters), for no apparent reason. If you redo the ROG system, it would actually be great to make it easier for everyone (but especially casual players...) to template these classes, in order to decrease the time needed to farm high level ROGs (or platin...) for these classes.

Sun 31 May 2020 1:48 AM by JaggedOne

The solution being worse than the problem is starting to be commonplace on this shard....

Here's a thought: how 'bout scrapping this terrible idea, and then using some of the time and resources that you were gonna devote to it to changing the housing search tool to search by UTILITY ?!?!?!?!

Sun 31 May 2020 3:42 AM by rogueyak

How long until this is implemented? I have a bunch of blanks sitting around I need to use before this terrible system gets put in place. Unrealistic amount of feathers for any change it just seems like you’d have a better chance of getting high utility rog during the hundreds of darkspire runs you’d need to do to craft your rog. Please don’t implement this it is a horrible change. Has anyone had a problem with the current system? I thought it was great. If you get low utility rog you just salvage it again.

Sun 31 May 2020 5:55 AM by Adwaenyth

shintacki wrote: ↑
Sat 30 May 2020 9:14 PM
You are either wildly overestimating the amount of lvl51 RoGs people have laying around or there is some miscommunication about the required materials. Seems absurd and hardly worthwhile for most players.

As a matter of fact, I believe they know exactly how many RoGs, feathers and money we actually have. It's nothing more than a simple DB query... and as he said, it is intended for high end gearing, not beginner gears.

About the costs, well I'm relatively new to the server and yes they seem steep, but I guess some people are really sitting on that stuff and there needs to be a sink for feathers and RoGs or the economy will collapse. Besides, if the costs are too high, with a system like that they can rather easily be adjusted up or down, so I'm generally in favor of this system.

Sun 31 May 2020 7:16 AM by pollojack

Calm thy bosoms. Keep in mind most templates with 60-70 util ROGs are off from capped resists by 1-3, Fixing that 1-3 by adding it to whichever jewelry doesn't have that stat is a BIG deal. Why? Because it frees up slots on your armor for other stats. As most of you know, you get diminishing returns on higher stats when SCing armor. Freeing up two to three armor imbue slots is massive in making templates.

I am confident this will actually be too cheap when combined with normal 60-70 util ROGs. It may even make templating hybrids too easy, we already know templating casters is easy hence the beer mug casters.

That being said, lets see how this plays out. I fucking hate PvE and have been doing it four days straight just to get a LT Chest to see if it is even worth it vs all the new archers. It probably isn't worth it since I was killing scouts just fine before but theory craft compels me.

Sun 31 May 2020 9:06 AM by Cadebrennus

keen wrote: ↑
Sat 30 May 2020 9:44 PM
Finally it is time to craft THE ULTIMATE ROG! Who will achieve it first?

.
.

Sun 31 May 2020 9:51 AM by Ele

I'll slit my post in two parts. The first is regarding the proposed change, the second is dedicated to the posted reactions.
1.) The idea of upgrading gear via a crafting system in general is a good idea. Many rpgs have a mechanic like this (Diablo, Elder Scrolls Series), and the same goes for MMOs (Star Trek Online comes to my mind here). To implement a system like that into the game seems logical, as it opens up options for optimization without forcing people to redo templates at the same time, because it'll still be totally viable to use simple rogs and not temper with juwelcarfting at all. I won't regard the proposed change as an option for creating supercharged rogs, but more fitted for filling this last 2 points of resists and 15 hp which normally would force you to use an additional mp if you want to cap everything. So I'm pretty positive towards the rework, even if I agree with most statements already given that it seems too expensive for being attractive. 3K feathers for one stat point is just too much.

2.) The attitude on the forums in general, especially towards the staff is getting close to unbearable, at least for me. Not only are there frequent insults, people also bring up things that have been discussed already over and over again in an agressive manner. Neither is this going to change the fact that some things can't be reworked due to being client side, nor is this helping towards keeping the community together. The frequent "Why are you changing X while Y needs fixing" posts are annoying. Do people really think that it is impossible for different team members to work on different projects? Just taking a look at the last posts from Uthred, Schaf and the front page: Bugs get fixed on regular basis, patches are rolled out almost every week, and in between new content is developed or - like in this case - old one reworked.
Have a little faith guys. "Our" devs are resourceful and listen to the communities opionions and feedback, if given in a civil manner.

Sun 31 May 2020 12:44 PM by Luluko

yeah the bad attitude here is a shame is it that hard to write constructive feedback. (rhetorical question)

@topic
-too expensive
-too much focus on pve
-would help if you could get those mats through rvring (not just keepraiding tho) maybe use the doppelganger approach from life for that and let mobs in the frontier drop it to incent more solos to leave bridges and keeps or just let players drop them

Sun 31 May 2020 1:09 PM by Artaxe

What a disaster, sounds like an awful idea.

Sun 31 May 2020 1:30 PM by Eidorf

Changes to jewel crafting are certainly welcome as its way too RBG based at the moment. Having said this please, please do not continue to create a divide between players with prohibitive ash costs. Those that are excluded from running DS will suffer greatly.

If you implement high ash costs then please also introduce a way for everyone to gain feathers at a reasonable pace. I suggest an easier version of DS/HoH albeit with reduced rewards ofc.

Regardless, kudos to the devs for wanting to improve an already great server.

Sun 31 May 2020 1:52 PM by dbeattie71

Wakefield wrote: ↑
Sun 31 May 2020 9:26 AM
What a horrible idea.

The way it works now is fine, doesn't need anything doing to it imo.

Go fix the dead PvP zone(never been there I just see it when I check /u and laugh) or the other stuff that is wrong at the moment. But we all needed horses right?

I personally have had enough with all the stuff which I voted against appearing on the server so taking a casual approach now, with all I do in this game is craft AC via craftqueue whilst I eat, put it on my house merchant at cheap prices, then log for the day.

Not bad to say I used to play constantly, even before this Covid made us all stay indoors

Holy cry baby 😭

Sun 31 May 2020 2:56 PM by cglang

I have made my entire system of money making around gem cutting and spellcrafting. i will say its a broken system and terribly thought out as there are TONS of trash items . I can say this new idea is NOT thought out any better. For one, the amounts of things required to upgrade 10 points is ridiculous and the majority of people on the server cant farm feathers in the first place. My vault is stacked with remnants because i buy all them off housing 2x a day. All my hard work will be gone to waste in this new system and it might be the last straw for me, there are so many other mmorpgs to play that dont have DEVS playing the game unfairly. IMO you should fix your server lag issues before trying to add or rework the game mechanics. Please also maybe fix the radar abuse in rvr ??? It is almost like the DEVS are willing to just trash and scrap the current system instead of refine and fix it! I can send your statistics i've gathered from gem cutting and lets just say the method you guys are using is trash and its apparent why i've only gotten 8 MP items and they all rog low as fuck as like 70ish util. My HIGHEST util rogg i made was 91 util from a 98 qual....... in my personal opinion i believe this shard had a lot more things that should be fixed prior to reworking the game. Your shard had a huge increase in players due to the current state of our world but as people start going back to normal life you're turning them off with ruining their work and wasting their time they spent over the past few months

Sun 31 May 2020 3:09 PM by Quik

I like the randomness of the current system personally.

Sun 31 May 2020 3:37 PM by Beeblebrox

I don't like the current system. I have spent too many hours, feathers and gold trying to get decent jewelry for my hybrids. I have yet to get anything over 60 something utility. I am surprised how many people seem to do better. So I like the idea of being able to figure out what it will take to get the rog I need. The cost of the new system can be adjusted if it really is too expensive.

Although it would be nice to have the market search improved to allow searching on utility among other improvements, I suspect that isn't possible because the interface is in the client which can't be changed in a major way. Just a guess of course. If that is true, then the only way I can see it working is some kind of utility on the phoenix server or a separate application. That is something I wouldn't mind working on myself.

As for the devs, I think they do an excellent job. I really don't understand all the crap they get. I much prefer the way it is here to what is happening on live.

Sun 31 May 2020 5:15 PM by Gravos

The idea in a way seems good. Just being able to increase a stat by 1 could mean opening up an armor SC slot which is a big deal with difficult templates. SC slots can be just as critical as imbue points. That being said it's WAY WAY too expensive.

On another note im getting really tired of the lack of respect for the devs. I don't always agree with the changes, but they are providing a FREE service. Bug fixes and/or content every week. Rather than your low effort "you're fixing this, but not this?" or other insult to the devs put some effort into making an intelligent post. Do you treat people like that in real life? Or just on the internet?

Sun 31 May 2020 9:17 PM by Jingo NZ

People need to keep feedback constructive. The tone of responses in this thread is embarrassing for the server community.

For jewel crafting, maybe we could have both the current and the new system? Getting that last +1 can be very valuable in template making.

Sun 31 May 2020 10:29 PM by Tamtrooper

First while I'm sure the new system of jewelcrafting could be improved I just want to say how amazing it is that there is a system in place at all. It's really cool do something I never got to do on live. I've enjoyed stockpiling remnants and crafting RoGs. I've enjoyed the randomness of the current system and the feather cost is cheap. I've made many usable jewels for templates. With what I'm reading about the changes the feather cost for producing templatable RoGs would skyrocket. I would not be opposed to this if there were a variety of ways to get good feathers. Running the epic dungeons/raids with BG or group over and over and over again to get needed feathers would decrease my enjoyment of the server. Feathers from rvr could be improved and it seems you only get them for fighting around towers/keeps and not for open field rvr. Perhaps that could be changed. Thanks again for all the work you do.

Sun 31 May 2020 11:49 PM by gotwqqd

The cost goes up for each tier that a gem is correct?
So the rog items I have that have 6/7 different stats on them can be bumped up to huge utility for a reasonable cost

That is if I’m correct on how it’s going to work

Ah...it’s only stats and resists....

Mon 1 Jun 2020 12:22 AM by Durzo

Can we please stop changing things that absolutely do not need a change.

Mon 1 Jun 2020 12:57 AM by Helwyr

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this proposed change or there's been typos in it in respect to numbers. But as written its making it much harder for new players to get templated and out playing in what DAoC players care about, RvR. I just don't know why you would do that, you want to make getting into the game more accessible not less so. I'm sure there are people with so much ash and feathers that it's like a volcano erupted at a mega poultry farm, but for a lot of us it's still a real grind to get these things just to get some characters RvR ready. Now if this proposed change were on top of the existing rog/jewelry crafting system not instead of it, then that's a totally different situation.

Mon 1 Jun 2020 5:02 AM by Astaa

My problems with the proposed change:

Any ROG that drops outside DS/Epic raids is generally low utility, 30,40,50,60 - to boost one of them would cost a fortune.
No gemcutter is going to be boosting random stats to items and putting them on housing and the only source of this new crafting item will be from SC'ers salvaging said junk ROGs anyway, so all we will see is lots of crafting materials for sale, very few ROGs.
The only source for base jewellery Items that are high enough to bother boosting will become DS/epic raids, which is not getting people into RvR.

Solution:

Tidy up ROG making somewhat, boost the chance of high utility from 99/mp blanks (leave the rest as they are) For example, an MP should be minimum 80, average 90 utility (Ive had as low as 45 on MP before...)
Add this new system on top of the existing system, make the new crafting material come from salvaging remnants, or straight up feather purchase.

Random brainfart:

Make the new material available to buy with seals, ownership of DF would become very important and would also boost RvR participation...as in the majority game of door bashing.

Thanks for trying to change things but in this instance I just don't think it will work.

Mon 1 Jun 2020 6:29 AM by zekkas

Pls leave it like this.It's already cool this system.

Mon 1 Jun 2020 6:59 AM by gotwqqd

Helwyr wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 12:57 AM
Maybe I'm misunderstanding this proposed change or there's been typos in it in respect to numbers. But as written its making it much harder for new players to get templated and out playing in what DAoC players care about, RvR. I just don't know why you would do that, you want to make getting into the game more accessible not less so. I'm sure there are people with so much ash and feathers that it's like a volcano erupted at a mega poultry farm, but for a lot of us it's still a real grind to get these things just to get some characters RvR ready. Now if this proposed change were on top of the existing rog/jewelry crafting system not instead of it, then that's a totally different situation.

This
All attempts to stop inflation result in very casual and new players having a harder time while the well established are not really affected.

Mon 1 Jun 2020 7:09 AM by Cadebrennus

Wow. Another one of my posts just got quietly deleted. How often do you guys do this to everyone here on the boards? It's at least 5 or 6 of mine that I can remember. What happened to free speech? No one is yelling fire in a crowded theatre.

Mon 1 Jun 2020 7:12 AM by gotwqqd

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 7:09 AM
Wow. Another one of my posts just got quietly deleted. How often do you guys do this to everyone here on the boards? It's at least 5 or 6 of mine that I can remember. What happened to free speech? No one is yelling fire in a crowded theatre.

To be honest
Your posts contributed nothing to the thread or forum in a whole
Just trying to get your digs in on devs whenever possible

Mon 1 Jun 2020 7:41 AM by

Uthred

Stay on topic and stop ranting vs the staff. This thread is not about how bad the staff is, but your thoughts on the planned changes.

And no, saying we are like broadsword arent any valid nor reasonable thoughts on this topic.

Mon 1 Jun 2020 7:52 AM by Wakefield

Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 7:41 AM
Stay on topic and stop ranting vs the staff. This thread is not about who bad the staff is, but your thoughts on the planned changes.

The planned new system just seems way expensive and forces people to do more farming., which a lot of players do not want.

More farming, especially in DS/HOH or even DF just means you have even more gold flowing onto those accounts that are already geared up to smash DS/HoH and leaving the rest by the wayside.

I templated majority of my toons, using either 60 rogs I got in Moderna, or the rest I crafted myself. Its not great, but that's the whole idea of crafting them, its a gamble which can have some very nice rewards to it.

Maybe add the +2, +3 to all skills etc jewel into the sc line, but make it so its gonna cost you a fair amount for that jewel in mats cost, say +2 gem 500 gold, +3 750, +4 1 plat.

If you really wanted to get gold off players, why not have it so you can buy reskins with plats?

Of course it should be more expensive than buying them with BPs, but it doesn't effect end game, templates, new players or anything. Just means you can swan around in Cloudsong with Spear of Kings if that's what tickles your pickle. But other than visually looking swank, it effects nothing.

Mon 1 Jun 2020 8:17 AM by Cadebrennus

Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 7:41 AM
Stay on topic and stop ranting vs the staff. This thread is not about how bad the staff is, but your thoughts on the planned changes.

And no, saying we are like broadsword arent any valid nor reasonable thoughts on this topic.

So where is the second post that just got deleted then? There's nothing more on topic than saying that Devs are making changes for the sake of making changes. Both posts said exactly this. Same as other people.

Mon 1 Jun 2020 8:25 AM by

Uthred

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 8:17 AM
Uthred wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 7:41 AM
Stay on topic and stop ranting vs the staff. This thread is not about how bad the staff is, but your thoughts on the planned changes.

And no, saying we are like broadsword arent any valid nor reasonable thoughts on this topic.

So where is the second post that just got deleted then? There's nothing more on topic than saying that Devs are making changes for the sake of making changes. Both posts said exactly this. Same as other people.

Which is so not true and is offtopic. We are planning to put this in, because we think it is an improvement making Jewelcrafting more usefull than it is now. And we are interested in what you guys think about this.
Im not going to start a discussion with you, so stop it now if you dont have anything reasonable to say. But ok, im going to help you a bit:

Examples (good):
I like the new system, because XXXX
I dont like the new system, because XXX
This might be bad for new players, because XXX
This might be great for templating, because XXX

Examples (bad):
Lol, devs breaking the game again. get your other stuff fixed ....
<insert random Meme here>
you are like Broadsword, Im saying this all the time, THIS WILL BE LIVE SOON, ....
LOL, they are deleting my posts, censorship, QQ ....

I guess that makes it pretty clear what im talking about. Keep on topic or dont post in here. Thank you for understanding.

Mon 1 Jun 2020 8:33 AM by dearen75

I could like the Jewel Rework, but I suggest to lower the Feathers cost .. it's the only resource that you can't farm solo and for casual players like me it will be hard to use this new crafting system if the Feathers cost will be so high

Mon 1 Jun 2020 9:04 AM by Kimahri

Why only resists and stats and not skills, you could allow skills to be increased by +1

Mon 1 Jun 2020 9:06 AM by

gruenesschaf

Based on the feedback, instead of replacing the current system entirely it will run side by side, only the remnants will be scrapped. The blank recipes will take different amounts of this new rog dust instead of the remnants.

Mon 1 Jun 2020 10:30 AM by gotwqqd

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 9:06 AM
Based on the feedback, instead of replacing the current system entirely it will run side by side, only the remnants will be scrapped. The blank recipes will take different amounts of this new rog dust instead of the remnants.

So what do we do with our remnants stored?

Mon 1 Jun 2020 10:43 AM by FaBx85

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 10:30 AM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 9:06 AM
Based on the feedback, instead of replacing the current system entirely it will run side by side, only the remnants will be scrapped. The blank recipes will take different amounts of this new rog dust instead of the remnants.

So what do we do with our remnants stored?

Quote this, I've hundreds polished stored :/

Mon 1 Jun 2020 12:43 PM by

gruenesschaf

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 12:18 PM
They've already deleted a fourth post.

Fifth

Mon 1 Jun 2020 1:23 PM by Astaa

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 9:06 AM
Based on the feedback, instead of replacing the current system entirely it will run side by side, only the remnants will be scrapped. The blank recipes will take different amounts of this new rog dust instead of the remnants.

Great news, thanks.

Can I ask what will happen with existing remnants? Any chance you can add them to the "can be salvaged list" even temporarily? I haven't got loads but I am actively farming at the moment so will likely build up a collection before I make some more ROGs.

Tue 2 Jun 2020 7:31 AM by Centenario

1) From experience, the current system input vs output is not correct and needs a fix.
I have used the current system for the past month, buying Polished 99% at 1 to 2.5plat and 98% at around 500-800g. It feels like in the past 2 weeks there was a stealth nerf, and the ROGs coming out from those blanks have been very poor. Is there some kind of hidden variable (character level or quality of the remnant) that would impact the resulting blank tier? At the moment, it feels like a polished 99% blank is well priced at around 2plats (cost and % chance) but the resulting ROG feels like a 1plat value on average.

2) New system and bag space
When farming, I usually salvage all ROGs and my bags get stuffed with stacks of 1 to 4 of these poor remnants. I would very much welcome to turn everything into some kind of dust to save bag space. Also my house chest has 2 pages filled of those remnants, for the next crafting session. If I understand correctly the new system, it would mean that I would only get that dust, please make it stack well so that it doesnt take up too much space.
When leveling with lower level character, I just throw away all jewelry since I use poor utility (50-60) jewelry on my alts. I would like to be able to salvage low level jewelry for some small amount of dust, instead of just throwing them away.

3) New system and market value
I like to be able to use ROG armor in my template, with LT or Heal proc and high utility. It would be nice to be able to use this on ROG armor and weapon as well, this might mean that some high ROG mp LT armor might get a better value.
I am unsure of the outcome of the new system on the market prices of ROGs, it would be nice to have more details on that tier system for better grasp of supply and demand (11 tiers per level 75 items, and stats depends on class: can a lvl 1 cabalist who rolls a 75, 100% then be sure to get 80-115 worth of stats, and since he cannot roll melee things, he might get a lot of resists, hp, power?)

4) New system and Abuse
If I have a 90u or 110u item, but it has some low tier stats inside like 1% resist or +1 stat, or +1 hp, then I could upgrade that stats for a low amount of dust and make a 110u become 120u, which is a way better item for the same cost as a 50utility becoming 60 utility.
Could you explain more on how this would work?

At the moment you can farm jewelry (dust/remnant) as a lvl 50 on yellow mobs, to be able to make polished 99% to have a shot at items that you would otherwise loot in Raid/Instance/WorldBoss. So it's an alternative farming, or farming on the side for people who are searching for specific ROGs, however it feels like doing instance (DS or World Boss at least in Alb) is a lot more efficient at getting high utility ROGs and feathers than this crafting method. Instance doesnt feel very difficult either, the difficult thing is getting a group together. It feels that time vs reward of the ROG lootbox is undertuned and people are just farming over and over DS, for instance bonus, ROGs and feathers. To each its own, the DS instance should be for feather, farming should be for dust and world bosses for ROGs? <= I would also put more world bosses, cause with 1 spot at a time, only 4-8 ppl can farm it at a time.

Finally, when farming with AoE dot, you can clear lots of oj/yellow mobs and get high amount of ROG (weapons and jewelry). Similar to task item, there should be a timer for ROG weapon and jewelry of 1 every 2 minutes.

5) New system and timing
I would appreciate if we could test/give more feedback on this new system somehow, before it is implemented, maybe make some tweaking.

Tue 2 Jun 2020 8:30 AM by pistu

bad idea.......vadavialcu e fatevi un 74

Tue 2 Jun 2020 9:45 AM by Valaraukar

The current rog generation system is crap, this is for sure. It is all based on luck, it needs a lot of inventory space and is anyway quite expensive.

The planned one seems more logical, but at that ash cost it is totally ridiculous. It will be just another buff to hardcore pve players (remember...the ones that already farmed HoH when it was done in 30mins and I suppose they still have millions of feathers). People with LGM spellcrafter who cannot run DS or make constant TG raids will have nothing at all from this change, and will lose the possibility to make good rogs (not exceptional ones, mind it) farming doable mobs alone.

My idea is that any change that is planned is based on the interests of a few hardcore players instead of the larger community, and it is a very bad mistake imho. And if you post in planned changes asking for feedbacks, and then you do not consider at all those feedbacks (see the crit system change for example), then why are you asking us feedbacks at all?

Tue 2 Jun 2020 9:58 AM by

Uthred

Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 9:45 AM
And if you post in planned changes asking for feedbacks, and then you do not consider at all those feedbacks (see the crit system change for example), then why are you asking us feedbacks at all?

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 9:06 AM
Based on the feedback, instead of replacing the current system entirely it will run side by side, only the remnants will be scrapped. The blank recipes will take different amounts of this new rog dust instead of the remnants.

Tue 2 Jun 2020 10:13 AM by Valaraukar

Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 9:58 AM
Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 9:45 AM
And if you post in planned changes asking for feedbacks, and then you do not consider at all those feedbacks (see the crit system change for example), then why are you asking us feedbacks at all?

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 9:06 AM
Based on the feedback, instead of replacing the current system entirely it will run side by side, only the remnants will be scrapped. The blank recipes will take different amounts of this new rog dust instead of the remnants.

So basically you keep a system that is not working, all based on luck, together with a new system that will be useful only for hardcore pve players that have tons of feather to spend. This is what you got from the feedbacks here?
Anyway I don't want to create a polemic, do as you prefer. Just keep in mind that the most part of the players cannot make continuous DS runs or TG raids, and maybe prefer to do RvR instead of farming feather like crazy in their precious little time on daoc.

Tue 2 Jun 2020 10:24 AM by CubanXv

The old system worked just fine and dandy. I appreciate them keeping it, as since its intro primarily how I have gone about temping my characters. The entirety of the RoG system is based purely on luck.... to stick your nose up at rolls for SPECIFIC slots is ludicrous. I loved the old system , will see how the new one fits into any of my future alts.

Tue 2 Jun 2020 10:36 AM by Astaa

Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 10:13 AM
Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 9:58 AM
Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 9:45 AM
And if you post in planned changes asking for feedbacks, and then you do not consider at all those feedbacks (see the crit system change for example), then why are you asking us feedbacks at all?

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 9:06 AM
Based on the feedback, instead of replacing the current system entirely it will run side by side, only the remnants will be scrapped. The blank recipes will take different amounts of this new rog dust instead of the remnants.

So basically you keep a system that is not working, all based on luck, together with a new system that will be useful only for hardcore pve players that have tons of feather to spend. This is what you got from the feedbacks here?
Anyway I don't want to create a polemic, do as you prefer. Just keep in mind that the most part of the players cannot make continuous DS runs or TG raids, and maybe prefer to do RvR instead of farming feather like crazy in their precious little time on daoc.

What do you mean, doesn't work? It works just fine, I have never stepped foot in DS or HOH, can't be arsed. I have however self templated a ranger, nightshade, hero and champ, all capped, all completely weaponless (except ranger that is MH free) and I only started after new year. I did it through making my own rogs, made loads, sold loads, kept the ones that fit. Probably broken even on the champ and NS due to the amount of rogs that I couldn't get to fit and then sold.

Tue 2 Jun 2020 11:15 AM by Valaraukar

Astaa wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 10:36 AM
Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 10:13 AM
Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 9:58 AM

So basically you keep a system that is not working, all based on luck, together with a new system that will be useful only for hardcore pve players that have tons of feather to spend. This is what you got from the feedbacks here?
Anyway I don't want to create a polemic, do as you prefer. Just keep in mind that the most part of the players cannot make continuous DS runs or TG raids, and maybe prefer to do RvR instead of farming feather like crazy in their precious little time on daoc.

What do you mean, doesn't work? It works just fine, I have never stepped foot in DS or HOH, can't be arsed. I have however self templated a ranger, nightshade, hero and champ, all capped, all completely weaponless (except ranger that is MH free) and I only started after new year. I did it through making my own rogs, made loads, sold loads, kept the ones that fit. Probably broken even on the champ and NS due to the amount of rogs that I couldn't get to fit and then sold.

And where did you find the ashes to make rogs with high utils? Or you have been lucky enough to get them at the first try? I have a LGM Spellcrafter, farmed tons of remnants, tried to convert them to ROGs. Result? Used about 20k feather to get a crappy 73 util item (out of a 100% polished remnant) that has a lot of crappy bonus (like 1% resist and so on) so it has an high util value but it is quite useless. I farm mobs in solo, don't do DS runs and make a TG once in a month maybe. Most of my time is spent in RvR where you don't get feathers at all unless you keep farming keeps and towers that is almost as boring as running TG raids. Anything that goes toward hardcore farming is a bad thing from my point of view, because farming is what killed Daoc after TOA and gives nothing to the game core which is RvR (or PvP as they love to call it here...lol)

Tue 2 Jun 2020 11:23 AM by Astaa

I farmed the plat myself with animist and bought ash from other players. I got artisan crafter as you might as well if you are templating several toons.

It's easy to template if you use your time wisely.

Tue 2 Jun 2020 11:49 AM by Lynee

I like the old system in place, I'm a big fan of the ROG approach (I don't play lottery or anything, but using blanks totally thrills me for some reason). The mixed results have never deterred my from trying this, so keeping it in the game is highly appreciated by me.

The idea of having dusts is nice becuase the remnant system really clogs up the vault and transforming the remnants can be quite tedious.

It would really be great to salvage lower tier jewlery for a lesser amount of dust, just to gather more resources (analog to collecting wood/metal/cloth while leveling up).

I'm unsure about the feather cost structure of the new system, sure there is a lot of people around sitting on several hundred thousand feathers but I also know plenty of people who are pretty poor in regards of feathers/platinum because they spend all their earnings on charges/siege/potions/repairs for pvp. It appears that people who farm a lot in pve will be able to pimp out their characters with ease (although they probably are already) and people who pvp mostly won't be. Nothing should come for free, but the wealthy won't be affected (nor will their monetary pools be significantly drained), the poor are forced to work harder to compete.

Tue 2 Jun 2020 12:13 PM by Valaraukar

Astaa wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 11:23 AM
I farmed the plat myself with animist and bought ash from other players. I got artisan crafter as you might as well if you are templating several toons.

It's easy to template if you use your time wisely.

it's easy when you have an animist

I have a BD and it farms pretty good, but nothing compared to an animist. To get heavy farm I have also a cave sham but it needs a lot of efforts and I usually farm when I can give little attention to the screen-
Anyway I didn't have any issue templating my toons, the only one really difficult is the Thane so it has a temporary template on, and I'm not whining about templates. I'm only saying that this change will be a big gift to hardcore farmers and gives nothing to the majority of the server population. So why should it be a good change?

Tue 2 Jun 2020 12:26 PM by Valaraukar

Lynee wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 11:49 AM
...

The idea of having dusts is nice becuase the remnant system really clogs up the vault and transforming the remnants can be quite tedious.

It would really be great to salvage lower tier jewlery for a lesser amount of dust, just to gather more resources (analog to collecting wood/metal/cloth while leveling up).

I'm unsure about the feather cost structure of the new system, sure there is a lot of people around sitting on several hundred thousand feathers but I also know plenty of people who are pretty poor in regards of feathers/platinum because they spend all their earnings on charges/siege/potions/repairs for pvp. It appears that people who farm a lot in pve will be able to pimp out their characters with ease (although they probably are already) and people who pvp mostly won't be. Nothing should come for free, but the wealthy won't be affected (nor will their monetary pools be significantly drained), the poor are forced to work harder to compete.

I totally agree with these considerations

Thu 4 Jun 2020 10:24 AM by Centenario

ETA on beta of this dust system please

Fri 5 Jun 2020 3:40 AM by

gruenesschaf

Centenario wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Jun 2020 10:24 AM
ETA on beta of this dust system please

Crafting / recipe changes are a bit involved, especially for players as everyone has to run the craft fixing stuff afterwards to make the client reflect those changes, and hence we're looking into what other recipe changes we should also do. Examples would be the all focus gem or some potions / barrels.

Fri 5 Jun 2020 8:17 AM by Centenario

I would like to suggest a rework of the draught of might and draught of deftness for lvl 10-29.
They cost around 500g+ while the draught of dex/fort/strength cost around 60g+
Might and deftness need to be around 120g each.

Sat 6 Jun 2020 1:21 AM by joshisanonymous

I'm surprised at all the complaints around the cost since the devs seem pretty careful about economic aspects of the game. I'm more inclined to believe that there's an overabundance of unused feathers out there and this is meant to reign that part of the economy in a bit while also giving people who play hard to template classes a means to get that last 2% on X resist or whatever. Honestly, how many people truly think this will somehow make it hard to template for new players or otherwise? I've templated 3 casters for almost nothing and 1 healer in 90% armor drops for slightly more than nothing. We'll all be fine.

Sat 6 Jun 2020 1:23 PM by imweasel

I think that this "new system" should be an addition to the current rog creation system already live.

Why replace when you should be able to make this in addition to it?

Wouldn't this make every one happy?

Just tweak the cost down and viola, another qol system put into place!!!

Sat 6 Jun 2020 3:09 PM by Quik

imweasel wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jun 2020 1:23 PM
I think that this "new system" should be an addition to the current rog creation system already live.

Why replace when you should be able to make this in addition to it?

Wouldn't this make every one happy?

Just tweak the cost down and viola, another qol system put into place!!!

You mean like they already said on page 6? I was extremely happy when they said they would just do both systems =)

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 9:06 AM
Based on the feedback, instead of replacing the current system entirely it will run side by side, only the remnants will be scrapped. The blank recipes will take different amounts of this new rog dust instead of the remnants.

Sat 6 Jun 2020 4:03 PM by Toobad

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Jun 2020 3:40 AM
Centenario wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Jun 2020 10:24 AM
ETA on beta of this dust system please

Crafting / recipe changes are a bit involved, especially for players as everyone has to run the craft fixing stuff afterwards to make the client reflect those changes, and hence we're looking into what other recipe changes we should also do. Examples would be the all focus gem or some potions / barrels.

It would be great if the Draught of Might and Draught of Deftness were brought in line with the other draughts. Requiring 65 Tears (plus the 10 to make each initial potion) is out of line with the cost of other single line draughts and is the same tears cost as a Draught of Combined Forces (with far less stats).

Sun 7 Jun 2020 5:06 AM by imweasel

Quik wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jun 2020 3:09 PM
imweasel wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Jun 2020 1:23 PM
I think that this "new system" should be an addition to the current rog creation system already live.

Why replace when you should be able to make this in addition to it?

Wouldn't this make every one happy?

Just tweak the cost down and viola, another qol system put into place!!!

You mean like they already said on page 6? I was extremely happy when they said they would just do both systems =)

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Jun 2020 9:06 AM
Based on the feedback, instead of replacing the current system entirely it will run side by side, only the remnants will be scrapped. The blank recipes will take different amounts of this new rog dust instead of the remnants.

Well they are not leaving the old system in place. They are modifying it to use rog dust. Don't know if this is a good idea without more specifics...

Tue 9 Jun 2020 2:29 PM by 1337Reasons

crafting rogs should not be easy or cheap................................. people literally go on multi-hours-long raids to roll on 90+ util drops.

problem is people go into their vault and try to casually make two or three blanks from some junk they've been sitting on, spend the money, get a few low quality blanks that become useless rogs, and think they've seen enough to start complaining. get a 90+ util item from a 99%, or 100+ util item from a mp, just once and you'll understand why the current mechanics are cool.

why not just change the phx ash component in the recipe to something that can be purchased from an npc without needing feathers? and/or make rog accessories /salvage-able into this dust, in a dust-per-util-point system or something.

people seriously lack imagination and will complain about anything. people who put more energy into this game than you should have better stuff than you.

Tue 9 Jun 2020 2:53 PM by gotwqqd

1337Reasons wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Jun 2020 2:29 PM
crafting rogs should not be easy or cheap................................. people literally go on multi-hours-long raids to roll on 90+ util drops.

problem is people go into their vault and try to casually make two or three blanks from some junk they've been sitting on, spend the money, get a few low quality blanks that become useless rogs, and think they've seen enough to start complaining. get a 90+ util item from a 99%, or 100+ util item from a mp, just once and you'll understand why the current mechanics are cool.

why not just change the phx ash component in the recipe to something that can be purchased from an npc without needing feathers? and/or make rog accessories /salvage-able into this dust, in a dust-per-util-point system or something.

people seriously lack imagination and will complain about anything. people who put more energy into this game than you should have better stuff than you.

Because they wish to reduce the amount of gold AND feathers hoarded

Sat 13 Jun 2020 4:45 AM by gotwqqd

So it looks like very high utility items with many stats or resists of 1 will be desirable.

What the hell is a tier 11 rog?

Sat 13 Jun 2020 4:48 AM by gotwqqd

cutbacks wrote: ↑
Sat 30 May 2020 9:11 PM
Umm...i dont ilke this..I've made plenty temps with the current system, maybe somehow on the rolls of polished and imperfect blanks on use, increase the bottom cap to be higher util, that is my only complaint..Having a polished mp item, using it and get a 40 util? Should maybe be a min of 65 util...

Cuts

This, but I’d also like to see some way of combining two items of the same quality to get the next 1% higher quality

Sat 13 Jun 2020 5:08 AM by gotwqqd

Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 11:15 AM
Astaa wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 10:36 AM
Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Jun 2020 10:13 AM
So basically you keep a system that is not working, all based on luck, together with a new system that will be useful only for hardcore pve players that have tons of feather to spend. This is what you got from the feedbacks here?
Anyway I don't want to create a polemic, do as you prefer. Just keep in mind that the most part of the players cannot make continuous DS runs or TG raids, and maybe prefer to do RvR instead of farming feather like crazy in their precious little time on daoc.

What do you mean, doesn't work? It works just fine, I have never stepped foot in DS or HOH, can't be arsed. I have however self templated a ranger, nightshade, hero and champ, all capped, all completely weaponless (except ranger that is MH free) and I only started after new year. I did it through making my own rogs, made loads, sold loads, kept the ones that fit. Probably broken even on the champ and NS due to the amount of rogs that I couldn't get to fit and then sold.

And where did you find the ashes to make rogs with high utils? Or you have been lucky enough to get them at the first try? I have a LGM Spellcrafter, farmed tons of remnants, tried to convert them to ROGs. Result? Used about 20k feather to get a crappy 73 util item (out of a 100% polished remnant) that has a lot of crappy bonus (like 1% resist and so on) so it has an high util value but it is quite useless. I farm mobs in solo, don't do DS runs and make a TG once in a month maybe. Most of my time is spent in RvR where you don't get feathers at all unless you keep farming keeps and towers that is almost as boring as running TG raids. Anything that goes toward hardcore farming is a bad thing from my point of view, because farming is what killed Daoc after TOA and gives nothing to the game core which is RvR (or PvP as they love to call it here...lol)

This item is perfect
With the new system side by side high utility items with lots of 1% resists or very low stats can be tuned into great items

I don’t know ... I just templates my NS with the new system in mind
One feather item, quest neck and some low 50-mid 60 accessories
2 mp armor pieces
I’m short 4% total resists which will be bumped each from 1 to 2

The new system makes cheap rog items able to be turned into template fixing items.

Sun 14 Jun 2020 6:45 AM by Noashakra

I think have +skill would be nice too

Sun 14 Jun 2020 8:29 AM by Jingo NZ

And salvaging dust from accessory items less than level 50 world be good too.

Sun 14 Jun 2020 10:07 AM by Kimahri

make +skill upgradeable by 1!

Mon 15 Jun 2020 3:33 PM by Delegator

I may be missing something here, but I can't find the recipes for these stat increases. I installed the crafting fix via PhoenixFixer, and I see the new alchemy recipes. But for Gemcutting I still have the old blank and remnant recipes. Where should I see the jewelcrafting changes?

<Edit> Or is the change today SOLELY the move to salvage for dust and not the ability to upgrade existing ROGs?

Mon 15 Jun 2020 4:07 PM by imweasel

Delegator wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Jun 2020 3:33 PM
I may be missing something here, but I can't find the recipes for these stat increases. I installed the crafting fix via PhoenixFixer, and I see the new alchemy recipes. But for Gemcutting I still have the old blank and remnant recipes. Where should I see the jewelcrafting changes?

<Edit> Or is the change today SOLELY the move to salvage for dust and not the ability to upgrade existing ROGs?

Well this dust crafting was supposed to be an addition to the current jewel crafting system. From the patch notes I don't think this is the case anymore...

Mon 15 Jun 2020 4:21 PM by Bradekes

How about just make a way to craft neck, rings, bracers, jewels, belts, and cloaks and then make them able to be SC. You could make rog gear salvage into the parts needed to build them and make an expensive ingredient for higher utility sc. Seems more in line with how the game already operates

Mon 15 Jun 2020 5:39 PM by Delegator

I found that, while I can salvage the remnants I already had, I have to do that individually. the /salvagebag command doesn't seem to see them as salvageable.

Mon 15 Jun 2020 5:54 PM by ExcretusMaximus

So is the ability to increase stats on ROG items not in the current patch, or am I just not able to find the recipe?

Mon 15 Jun 2020 6:02 PM by

gruenesschaf

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Jun 2020 5:54 PM
So is the ability to increase stats on ROG items not in the current patch, or am I just not able to find the recipe?

It will not be a recipe but work like spellcrafting and today included only the recipe changes.

Mon 15 Jun 2020 6:03 PM by ExcretusMaximus

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Jun 2020 6:02 PM
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Jun 2020 5:54 PM
So is the ability to increase stats on ROG items not in the current patch, or am I just not able to find the recipe?

It will not be a recipe but work like spellcrafting and today included only the recipe changes.

Thank you.

Tue 16 Jun 2020 3:05 PM by Demaischler

well, nobody has to use it or? its probably just a feathers sink like the horses are a gold sink, so whats the problem here? they just add useful stuff to the game.

Tue 16 Jun 2020 3:43 PM by Delegator

My assessment of the new system:

1. The change from remnants to dust is nothing but a positive. Less complexity, easy to understand.

2. The ability to increase a stat on a ROG is theoretically good, but the cost is insane. TO go from +4 slash resist to +5 costs a perfect gem (30gp), 92 Phoenix Dust (average of 10 ROGs salvaged) and 279 Phoenix Ash (!!!!!). That's 2790 feathers to raise a resist from 4 to 5. Um...Wow. TO put it in perspective, those same 2790 feathers would be enough for 8 item blanks (34 ash, or 340 feathers, per blank). And that's for just one stat.

Personally, I'll salvage ROGs and gamble on making good blanks. The incremental stat increase is just way too expensive unless you have a piece where you are going maybe +1 to +2 for that one stat where your template is lacking. Of course your mileage may vary.

Tue 16 Jun 2020 4:52 PM by Rhyniel

Costs for level 51 item using formula from 1st post

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 30 May 2020 8:46 PM
A legendary spellcrafter is required to perform the upgrade, it is likely that only level 51 / rog tier 11 items will qualify for upgrades.
To increase a stat by 1 you will require:
Dust: rog tier * 5 * new stat + new stat * new stat * new stat * new stat / 100, truncated
Gem: the highest gem (Perfect) for the wanted stat, for acuity any acuity stat (int, cha, pie, emp) gem will work
Ash: dust cost * 3

For resists the highest gem for the wanted resist is required and the ash and dust cost is multiplied by 3.

Example costs:
Level 51 rog, increase existing Strength from 1 to 2:
110 dust, Perfect fiery essence jewel, 330 Phoenix Ash

Level 51 rog, increase existing Strength from 9 to 10:
650 dust, Perfect fiery essence jewel, 1950 Phoenix Ash

Total for increasing existing Strength from 1 to 10 on a level 51 rog:
3219 dust, 9 Perfect fiery essence jewel, 9657 Phoenix Ash

Level 51 rog, increase existing Strength from 16 to 17:
1770 dust, Perfect fiery essence jewel, 5310 Phoenix Ash

Level 51 rog, increase existing Slash resist from 1 to 2:
330 dust, Perfect watery shielding jewel, 990 Phoenix Ash

Level 51 rog, increase existing Slash resist from 9 to 10:
1950 dust, Perfect watery shielding jewel, 5850 Phoenix Ash

Stat 	Dust	Ash		Resist 	Dust	Ash
2	110	330		2	330	990
3	165	495		3	495	1485
4	222	666		4	666	1998
5	281	843		5	843	2529
6	342	1026		6	1026	3078
7	409	1227		7	1227	3681
8	480	1440		8	1440	4320
9	560	1680		9	1680	5040
10	650	1950		10	1950	5850
11	751	2253		11	2253	6759
12	867	2601		12	2601	7803
13	1000	3000		13	3000	9000
14	1154	3462		14	3462	10386
15	1331	3993		15	3993	11979
16	1535	4605		16	4605	13815
17	1770	5310		17	5310	15930
18	2039	6117				
19	2348	7044				
20	2700	8100				
21	3099	9297				
22	3552	10656				
23	4063	12189				
24	4637	13911				
25	5281	15843				
26	5999	17997				
27	6799	20397				
28	7686	23058

Tue 16 Jun 2020 8:57 PM by chryso

I like this change. I have a few templates where i am just a point or two away from perfection. This will allow me to fix those templates without having to completely rebuild them.

I just raised a stat by 1. I think i misunderstood before. Yes, i can see that it is VERY expensive. It is still helpful though.

Tue 16 Jun 2020 9:06 PM by Noashakra

it's cool but we need the +1 skill

Wed 17 Jun 2020 5:05 AM by pollojack

Has anyone had a successful stat increase?

Wed 17 Jun 2020 8:20 AM by Wasa

Hi. I‘m not sure if I understood it right, so there‘s a question to the principle of this crafting skill.

Well, one of my temps need +1 qui and +1 heat. That bonuses are on 2 different accessoires. The lowest value there is on qui +16 and on heat +8. Both are to rise +1.

So I didn’t have just to buy material for the difference (for qui=material +17 minus material +16 and heat=material +9 minus material +8) ?
No? Do I have to buy material for stat +17 and resi +9 ? (what would be exact the same as to rise from +1 to a.m. values).

Wed 17 Jun 2020 8:31 AM by gotwqqd

Wasa wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 8:20 AM
Hi. I‘m not sure if I understood it right, so there‘s a question to the principle of this crafting skill.

Well, one of my temps need +1 qui and +1 heat. That bonuses are on 2 different accessoires. The lowest value there is on qui +16 and on heat +8. Both are to rise +1.

So I didn’t have just to buy material for the difference (for qui=material +17 minus material +16 and heat=material +9 minus material +8) ?
No? Do I have to buy material for stat +17 and resi +9 ? (what would be exact the same as to rise from +1 to a.m. values).

I believe the cost of +1 , going from 1 to 2 is going to cost far less than if it’s from 16 to 17

I built a template with good utility , but having many stats and resists of 1!or 2

Wed 17 Jun 2020 8:52 AM by Astaa

The cost is way off the scale, to add +1 qui to a rog it told be I would need 600 ash, 200 dust, plus ofc the perfect gem.

Hearing the chance of a high utility rog from blanks is also reduced (though anecdotal)

Glad all my toons are templated...

Wed 17 Jun 2020 9:12 AM by

Uthred

Astaa wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 8:52 AM
Hearing the chance of a high utility rog from blanks is also reduced (though anecdotal)

Nothing was changed about the chance to get a high utility rog from blanks.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 9:28 AM by Rhyniel

Wasa wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 8:20 AM
Hi. I‘m not sure if I understood it right, so there‘s a question to the principle of this crafting skill.

Well, one of my temps need +1 qui and +1 heat. That bonuses are on 2 different accessoires. The lowest value there is on qui +16 and on heat +8. Both are to rise +1.

So I didn’t have just to buy material for the difference (for qui=material +17 minus material +16 and heat=material +9 minus material +8) ?
No? Do I have to buy material for stat +17 and resi +9 ? (what would be exact the same as to rise from +1 to a.m. values).

You will need
1770 dust & 5310 ash to go from 16 to 17 quick
1680 dust & 5040 ash to go from 8 to 9% heat

Wed 17 Jun 2020 9:37 AM by gotwqqd

Yea using the chart posted by someone above the feather cost is a bit steep.
Raising a resist by 1% at the lowest tier(1 to 2) costs nearly the whole amount of feathers garnished from a Sidi/Galla/whatever raid

Wed 17 Jun 2020 10:26 AM by Wasa

Thanks Rhyniel.

Well, the math to the costs (only Feathers ~5.500g / 20k):
qui +17 = 5.310 => 53.100 => 14.600g
heat +9 = 5.040 => 50.400 => 13.900g
Costs, only Feathers => 29.000g

Didn‘t seem to be logic nor fair and imo not appropriate to improve jewelery use to everyone.
These costs are out of acceptable proportions to the benefit it gives.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 10:33 AM by Wasa

I really appreciate the dev‘s work to improve Jewellery and the way they go, to offer the possibility to improve players temps that leaks a bit.
Great and have to say thanks to their work for that and great respect to also.

My request to the devs: pls consider that costs compared to minor benefits.

To me cumulative costs für the RAISE of every +1 in descending order, would be interesting. Let‘s say for the 1st +1 = +2 Plat (no matter if from +1 to +2 or from +16 to +17)
The next +1 = 1,75 Plat aso so that in the end, for actually +17 (from +1 to +17) I would have to pay the a.m. 29 Plat.
The 1st +1 then isn‘t that expensive. For everyone who has the money (or to me: playtime) can go with the increasing costs.

I think something like that would be acceptable.
Couldn‘t this be the way?

Wed 17 Jun 2020 12:34 PM by Centenario

I tested yesterday on 51 item its:

1% to 2% resist is like 30 dust and 60 ash
2% to 3% resist is like 45 dust and 90 ash

So really not as advertised earlier by Rhyniel

Wed 17 Jun 2020 12:56 PM by chryso

Centenario wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 12:34 PM
I tested yesterday on 51 item its:

1% to 2% resist is like 30 dust and 60 ash
2% to 3% resist is like 45 dust and 90 ash

So really not as advertised earlier by Rhyniel

I raised stats on 5 different items yesterday. The higher the stat is to begin with the more it costs to raise it.
1 Str to 2 Str is peanuts. If you are starting with a stat above 10 the cost gets really high.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 1:06 PM by Centenario

For stats the system is wrong IMO.

I have an item with 22 strength i should be able to raise it from 22 to the next gem threshold (25) or (28)
So for stats regardless of the current value, you should be able to raise by treshold, for a cost, and the cost needs to be tuned correctly.
22 to 23 was something like 90k feather and 3k dust, for +1 of a stat lol.

+1 of any stat is 0.67 utility, starting at 23-25 in a stat it starts to cost double imbue points on average, cause people charge items with around 8 imbue per gem.
+1 of a resist is 2 utility, starting at 9% resist it stats to cost double the imbue points.

So the +1 in stats should cost 3 times less than +1 resist until +24 stat
Resist cost should be triple of stat until 9% at which point it should grow twice as fast.

Something I would think would be fair( 1 ash cost 2.25gold and 1 dust cost 2gold) :

+1 stats from 1 to 5 is 10 ash per point and 20 dust per point = 62.5 g cost per point
+1 resist from 1 to 3 is 30 ash per point and 60 dust per point = 187.5 g cost per point
+1 stats from 6 to 10 is 20 ash per point and 40 dust per point = 125 g cost per point
+1 resist from 4 to 6 is 60 ash per point 120 dust per point = 375 g cost per point
+ 1 stats from 11 to 15 is 40 ash per point and 80 dust per point = 250 g cost per point
+1 resist from 7 to 9 is 120 ash per point and 240 dust per point = 750 g cost per point
+ 1 stats from 16 to 20 is 80 ash per point and 160 dust per point = 500g cost per point
+ 1 resist from 9 to 10 is 240 ash per point and 480 dust per point = 1p500 cost per point
+ 1 stat from 21 to 25 is 160 ash per point and 320 dust per point = 1p per point
+1 resist from 10 to 12 is 480 ash per point and 960 dust per point [cap at 12] = 3p per point
+1 stat from 25 to 30 is 320 ash per point and 640 dust per point [cap at 30] = 2p per point

Wed 17 Jun 2020 6:23 PM by pollojack

So I took the dive and SCd. Custom drops, like the SI neck or Feather items can not be SCd.

If an item has two stats that are +1. The cost to raise the second +1 stat will be higher than the cost of the first +1.
The increased rate does not continue to rise if you have more than two, only if you have more than one.

Like I predicted, this was a boon to hybrids. Despite the restriction of only raising existing stats. My NS is weaponless now without relying on offhand. This was achieved by bringing several stats per item to +5. This made 80 and 90 util items of the original items.

I do agree, the costs are extreme for stats/resists greater than 7. Hopefully, you only have to do this once though. I went through about 1.5k dust playing with this.

I think the best compromise between costs I can suggest would be a one time, per item, flat cost to add +1 all melee or +1 all magic to each item.

Has anyone tested +Hits? I doubt it would be cost effective to increase it even by one.

Wed 17 Jun 2020 6:41 PM by Rhyniel

Didn’t they said you can only upgrade stats and resists?

Thu 18 Jun 2020 12:22 AM by gotwqqd

Level 51 rog ring

1% body on it
Made perfect dusty shield gem

Click craft
Put gem right side window

I just get a message that only player made items can be enchanted

Thu 18 Jun 2020 2:11 AM by pollojack

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 12:22 AM
Level 51 rog ring

1% body on it
Made perfect dusty shield gem

Click craft
Put gem right side window

I just get a message that only player made items can be enchanted

Throw some dust and ash on it, should give you a dif message.

Thu 18 Jun 2020 6:53 PM by Delegator

My experience today with an item with these stats:

Total Util: 66
Single-skill Util: 61

Dex: +13
Hits: +44
Body: +6
Cold: +1
Energy: +6
Heat: +1
Slash: +4
Acuity: +1
All Magic Skills: +1

Notes:
- In all cases the perfect gem costs about 30gp to create
- can improve only stats and resists, not skills nor HP

In order of increasing cost:

Increase Piety to +2: 10 Phoenix Dust, 30 Phoenix Ash (Note: if I do this, will the stat on the piece be changed from Acuity to Piety? Anybody know?)
Increase Cold to +2: 30 Phoenix Dust, 90 Phoenix Ash
Increase Slash to +5: 93 Phoenix Dust, 279 Phoenix Ash
Increase Energy to +7: 177 Phoenix Dust, 531 Phoenix Ash
Increase Dex from +13 to +14: 454 Phoenix Dust, 1362 Phoenix Ash

Did that last one make you laugh? Spit take? 13620 feathers to increase a stat by just one point? How does that make any sense?

Alternatively, if I wanted to use my dust for blanks and play the lottery using the old system, it would be 60 dust, 34 ash (340 feathers), and 135gp in gems. So, for the price in feathers of going from 13 to 14 dex I could make 40 blanks. At least a few of those are bound to be pretty awesome. Or for the price of taking Piety from +1 to +2, I could make one blank, give or take.

To me, the system should be based on spellcrafting cost or overall item utility, and this is clearly not. The extra utility of increasing Dex from 13 to 14 is far below that of increasing a resist by 1 at any level, and with SC you would get 3 points of a stat, not 6, for point of SC capacity.

In short: this system might be useful if you have an item that
a) has +1 in some stat or resist you need, and
b) your template needs just 1-2 points to complete it

Anything else gets ridiculously expensive in feather terms. If I raised each of the +1 stats on this piece to +1, it would cost me 210 Phoenix ash, or 2100 feathers. Go to +2 and I would likely spend twice that in addition, and so on.

Thu 18 Jun 2020 7:05 PM by Valaraukar

Centenario wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 1:06 PM
For stats the system is wrong IMO.

I have an item with 22 strength i should be able to raise it from 22 to the next gem threshold (25) or (28)
So for stats regardless of the current value, you should be able to raise by treshold, for a cost, and the cost needs to be tuned correctly.
22 to 23 was something like 90k feather and 3k dust, for +1 of a stat lol.

+1 of any stat is 0.67 utility, starting at 23-25 in a stat it starts to cost double imbue points on average, cause people charge items with around 8 imbue per gem.
+1 of a resist is 2 utility, starting at 9% resist it stats to cost double the imbue points.

So the +1 in stats should cost 3 times less than +1 resist until +24 stat
Resist cost should be triple of stat until 9% at which point it should grow twice as fast.

Something I would think would be fair( 1 ash cost 2.25gold and 1 dust cost 2gold) :

+1 stats from 1 to 5 is 10 ash per point and 20 dust per point = 62.5 g cost per point
+1 resist from 1 to 3 is 30 ash per point and 60 dust per point = 187.5 g cost per point
+1 stats from 6 to 10 is 20 ash per point and 40 dust per point = 125 g cost per point
+1 resist from 4 to 6 is 60 ash per point 120 dust per point = 375 g cost per point
+ 1 stats from 11 to 15 is 40 ash per point and 80 dust per point = 250 g cost per point
+1 resist from 7 to 9 is 120 ash per point and 240 dust per point = 750 g cost per point
+ 1 stats from 16 to 20 is 80 ash per point and 160 dust per point = 500g cost per point
+ 1 resist from 9 to 10 is 240 ash per point and 480 dust per point = 1p500 cost per point
+ 1 stat from 21 to 25 is 160 ash per point and 320 dust per point = 1p per point
+1 resist from 10 to 12 is 480 ash per point and 960 dust per point [cap at 12] = 3p per point
+1 stat from 25 to 30 is 320 ash per point and 640 dust per point [cap at 30] = 2p per point

I totally agee!
Upgraded a Rog with 7 QUI to 9 QUI, 2 points, for about 500 ash and about 150 dust... it is really too much to raise a stat (not a res) at such a low bonus level, considering that stats can go up to 28 they cannot have the same price as resists... raising a res from 1 to 2 should cost more than a stat from 7 to 9.

The price in ash/dust should be bases on utility points raised, not on the value of the bouns raised imho.

the dust system is a great improvement, jewelcrafting now needs only a fix on random success to be more reliable (I used a 100% blank belt and got a 70 util, with +50 bonus on quick lol)

Thu 18 Jun 2020 8:42 PM by gotwqqd

This is not around to replace the blanks
Use it to take care of % here and there
Go buy rogs with lots of 1 and high utility
Then build around those

Fri 19 Jun 2020 1:43 AM by Delegator

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 8:42 PM
This is not around to replace the blanks
Use it to take care of % here and there

Yes, this works.

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 8:42 PM
Go buy rogs with lots of 1 and high utility
Then build around those

No, this is a bad idea -- raising more than one or two stats by one or two % will be obscenely expensive.

Fri 19 Jun 2020 2:10 AM by gotwqqd

Delegator wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 1:43 AM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 8:42 PM
This is not around to replace the blanks
Use it to take care of % here and there

Yes, this works.

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Jun 2020 8:42 PM
Go buy rogs with lots of 1 and high utility
Then build around those

No, this is a bad idea -- raising more than one or two stats by one or two % will be obscenely expensive.

I raised two stats from 1 to 2 same type and the same item and the cost for each raise was the same

Fri 19 Jun 2020 3:43 AM by Delegator

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Jun 2020 2:10 AM
I raised two stats from 1 to 2 same type and the same item and the cost for each raise was the same

Right, and how many feathers did that cost? it it's from +1 to +2 on a stat it's 300 feathers for each. If you do it for a lot, that adds up -- especially if you already paid for a high-util item.

If one or two points is all you need, and the base on the ROG is +1, then it make sense. More than that quickly gets into thousands of feathers where you would be better off selling feathers or making blanks. Just my opinion.

Fri 19 Jun 2020 6:19 AM by Casimir

To create/build 3 rogs over 65 i spent 2 K Dust (payed 5 PP per 1000 on alb Housing if m not wrong you have to salvage around 70 rog to have 1000 dust) and 1 K feathers and i dont remember how much in pal gems... So 18 PP...

Thank you this new rule helps me a lot to stop the game and get involved thank you !

Fri 19 Jun 2020 7:13 AM by Jojones

I think devs did a great job with this SC rework. They added a new useful function to complete a tp without wrecking the jewel market.
To the ones complaining about the costs: if they made the upgrade too cheap, then everyone would make perfect templates for peanuts and this would completely destroy the economy. As other said before my post, just be smart and build a tp starting from decent utility items with lots of +1 stats/resists that can be upgraded for cheap. Imho it’s totally legit that to raise a stat above 15-20 you have to pay a lot.
Again, gg devs😊

Fri 19 Jun 2020 9:13 AM by Wasa

The costs are the big fat issue here.
The vision and the implementation were fine.

My critic to the costs based on the fact, that I have to pay for raising one stat of +1 from +25 up to +26 the same as I have to pay for rising from +1 up to +26.
Why? There are already the 1st +25 on that item. So I should pay for imaginary +25 (that ARE already in) and for that +1 too.

The cost part seems not well thought out. The idea is great. Gives a huge flexibility in SC‘n. Bit it only makes sense respectively gives the most benefit, when costomize items in higher stats/resis.

I won’t craft any blanks nor use this expensive way to rise points in accessoires for this reason.
It really come cheaper to buy/create a new template.

Fri 19 Jun 2020 9:16 AM by Centenario

Centenario wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Jun 2020 1:06 PM
Something I would think would be fair( 1 ash cost 2.25gold and 1 dust cost 2gold) :

+1 stats from 1 to 5 is 10 ash per point and 20 dust per point = 62.5 g cost per point
+1 resist from 1 to 3 is 30 ash per point and 60 dust per point = 187.5 g cost per point
+1 stats from 6 to 10 is 20 ash per point and 40 dust per point = 125 g cost per point
+1 resist from 4 to 6 is 60 ash per point 120 dust per point = 375 g cost per point
+ 1 stats from 11 to 15 is 40 ash per point and 80 dust per point = 250 g cost per point
+1 resist from 7 to 9 is 120 ash per point and 240 dust per point = 750 g cost per point
+ 1 stats from 16 to 20 is 80 ash per point and 160 dust per point = 500g cost per point
+ 1 resist from 9 to 10 is 240 ash per point and 480 dust per point = 1p500 cost per point
+ 1 stat from 21 to 25 is 160 ash per point and 320 dust per point = 1p per point
+1 resist from 10 to 12 is 480 ash per point and 960 dust per point [cap at 12] = 3p per point
+1 stat from 25 to 30 is 320 ash per point and 640 dust per point [cap at 30] = 2p per point

Maybe inverse dust and ash, because we stack a lot more feather/ash than dust, otherwise the cost of dust would skyrocket to 5g each soon.

Fri 19 Jun 2020 6:54 PM by gotwqqd

I think if they halved the cost escalation it would be afrquate

Thu 25 Jun 2020 1:00 AM by Spiegal

Centenario wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:06 pm
Something I would think would be fair( 1 ash cost 2.25gold and 1 dust cost 2gold) :

+1 stats from 1 to 5 is 10 ash per point and 20 dust per point = 62.5 g cost per point
+1 resist from 1 to 3 is 30 ash per point and 60 dust per point = 187.5 g cost per point
+1 stats from 6 to 10 is 20 ash per point and 40 dust per point = 125 g cost per point
+1 resist from 4 to 6 is 60 ash per point 120 dust per point = 375 g cost per point
+ 1 stats from 11 to 15 is 40 ash per point and 80 dust per point = 250 g cost per point
+1 resist from 7 to 9 is 120 ash per point and 240 dust per point = 750 g cost per point
+ 1 stats from 16 to 20 is 80 ash per point and 160 dust per point = 500g cost per point
+ 1 resist from 9 to 10 is 240 ash per point and 480 dust per point = 1p500 cost per point
+ 1 stat from 21 to 25 is 160 ash per point and 320 dust per point = 1p per point
+1 resist from 10 to 12 is 480 ash per point and 960 dust per point [cap at 12] = 3p per point
+1 stat from 25 to 30 is 320 ash per point and 640 dust per point [cap at 30] = 2p per point

Those numbers are incorrect.

+1 resist from 1% to 2% heat resist would cost me 90 Phoenix Ash and 30 Phoenix Dust . That seemed pretty expensive even for the lowest tier upgrade.
Can we expect a change in those trade values?

Thu 25 Jun 2020 11:50 AM by imweasel

There was little incentive to use the previous craftable rog system. There was little to no cost benefit. It was also to random. You could not "craft" or tailor the item to fit your needs.

There is zero incentive to use the "new" one now. It does give you the ability to address a "need" by allowing you to get that extra +1 to a resist or stat.

However, now it's just too expensive. Way too expensive.

You are better off just spending the extra plat to get it right the first time.

Thu 25 Jun 2020 4:01 PM by Delegator

imweasel wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Jun 2020 11:50 AM
There was little incentive to use the previous craftable rog system. There was little to no cost benefit. It was also to random. You could not "craft" or tailor the item to fit your needs.

There is zero incentive to use the "new" one now. It does give you the ability to address a "need" by allowing you to get that extra +1 to a resist or stat.

However, now it's just too expensive. Way too expensive.

You are better off just spending the extra plat to get it right the first time.

I actually had some good luck with some characters, getting ROGs in th e80+ range that I could use. That worked when I was starting with few items and had lots of room to craft my armor to fill in my template. For this kind of ROG generation, the new system is better if only because having one item (dust) is far, far better than having all those remnants taking up space and requiring conversion.

You are absolutely correct that the new system of stat improvements is much too expensive. But, the idea that you can spend extra to get it right the first time is wishful thinking. The ROG search ability in the housing vendor is pathetically poor. You can't search on utility. It is difficult to narrow down (what if you have three different resists you need? What if you are already overcapped on one resist and want to not manually look at items that have that? Etc.). If the housing vendor search was better then spending the extra plat would surely be the way to go.

Thu 25 Jun 2020 8:30 PM by imweasel

Delegator wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Jun 2020 4:01 PM
imweasel wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Jun 2020 11:50 AM
There was little incentive to use the previous craftable rog system. There was little to no cost benefit. It was also to random. You could not "craft" or tailor the item to fit your needs.

There is zero incentive to use the "new" one now. It does give you the ability to address a "need" by allowing you to get that extra +1 to a resist or stat.

However, now it's just too expensive. Way too expensive.

You are better off just spending the extra plat to get it right the first time.

I actually had some good luck with some characters, getting ROGs in th e80+ range that I could use. That worked when I was starting with few items and had lots of room to craft my armor to fill in my template. For this kind of ROG generation, the new system is better if only because having one item (dust) is far, far better than having all those remnants taking up space and requiring conversion.

You are absolutely correct that the new system of stat improvements is much too expensive. But, the idea that you can spend extra to get it right the first time is wishful thinking. The ROG search ability in the housing vendor is pathetically poor. You can't search on utility. It is difficult to narrow down (what if you have three different resists you need? What if you are already overcapped on one resist and want to not manually look at items that have that? Etc.). If the housing vendor search was better then spending the extra plat would surely be the way to go.

I would simply pay the plat for more 70+ and 80+ items to begin with and fill in on spell crafting. Tons easier.

Plat is easy. New system not so much.

Fri 26 Jun 2020 3:15 PM by yepyukon

I actually really like the new system. I had two toons, skald and thane, that were both missing minor stats. Skald was only 25% body, 24% cold, 74 quick and I was able to to cap those easily with my gear (luckily I had 2 items with 1% cold and an item with 2% body). My Thane was a bit more expensive but not bad. He was missing 1% thrust and 1% spirit and the lowest thrust item I had was 5%. For a few hundred extra gold, I got them both completely capped.

The new system of making RoGs is great. I no longer get a random raw or rough blank and can just chose to make polished.

The best is the massive amounts of room I now have in my account vault. It was taking up about 1.5 pages of blanks before and now just a few slots.

Fri 26 Jun 2020 6:24 PM by gotwqqd

yepyukon wrote: ↑
Fri 26 Jun 2020 3:15 PM
I actually really like the new system. I had two toons, skald and thane, that were both missing minor stats. Skald was only 25% body, 24% cold, 74 quick and I was able to to cap those easily with my gear (luckily I had 2 items with 1% cold and an item with 2% body). My Thane was a bit more expensive but not bad. He was missing 1% thrust and 1% spirit and the lowest thrust item I had was 5%. For a few hundred extra gold, I got them both completely capped.

The new system of making RoGs is great. I no longer get a random raw or rough blank and can just chose to make polished.

The best is the massive amounts of room I now have in my account vault. It was taking up about 1.5 pages of blanks before and now just a few slots.

I like the new system, I think the escalation of dust/feathers should be tweaked down a bit though.

You can find great rog items at low cost on marketplace to tweak.
And raid items often have many stats of 1 which make them more desirable than higher utility items.
Hopefully others don’t realize this.....
I recently won an item with 6 stats/resists of 1.
4 resists and 2 stats. You can bump the resists up to 3 for minimal costs and greatly increase the utility

Sat 27 Jun 2020 5:56 AM by Delegator

yepyukon wrote: ↑
Fri 26 Jun 2020 3:15 PM
I actually really like the new system. I had two toons, skald and thane, that were both missing minor stats. Skald was only 25% body, 24% cold, 74 quick and I was able to to cap those easily with my gear (luckily I had 2 items with 1% cold and an item with 2% body). My Thane was a bit more expensive but not bad. He was missing 1% thrust and 1% spirit and the lowest thrust item I had was 5%. For a few hundred extra gold, I got them both completely capped.

The new system of making RoGs is great. I no longer get a random raw or rough blank and can just chose to make polished.

The best is the massive amounts of room I now have in my account vault. It was taking up about 1.5 pages of blanks before and now just a few slots.

I guess we have different ideas of what a "few hundred extra gold" means. Your first example would require:

1% cold to 2% = 30 dust and 90 Ash plus a perfect gem
2% cold to 3% cold = about 45 dust and 149 ash? (I only have items with +1 and +3 to test on, but I know that going +1 to +2 is 90 ash and +3 to +4 is 198 ash so splitting the difference)
2% body to 3% body = another 45 dust and 149 ash and a gem

Don't know what you had to do in order to increase quickness, because you don't say what the base point was.

That's a total of 3 perfect gems (cost about 30gp each) plus about 390 Phoenix Ash, which is 3900 feathers, plus whatever the 120 or so dust is worth. (That's enough dust for 2 polished blanks, when combined with pal gems and ash...which of course also cost money). Assuming that 20k feathers still goes for 5p, that's 1p in feathers. Plus maybe 100-200gp in gems and dust.

Anyway that's over 1pp to add the 3 points of resists. Plus whatever for the one point of quickness. Plus the original cost of the item you were enhancing. If you consider that reasonable then we can just agree to disagree.

Sun 28 Jun 2020 9:56 PM by yepyukon

I guess I said a few hundred gold because raids are ran several times a week so I had the feathers and farming is easy on any toon (just go to your classic lvl 50 dungeon) so I had the dust. Only extra cost was making the perfect gem, which as you said was about 30g a pop. So it cost me materials I already had plus about 120g for perfect gems. So for ~120g, I was able to put on 3 resist stats and 1 main stat, plus the time I already invested in raiding/farming/rvring so it is well worth it to me.

Mon 29 Jun 2020 10:42 AM by Sepplord

yepyukon wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jun 2020 9:56 PM
I guess I said a few hundred gold because raids are ran several times a week so I had the feathers and farming is easy on any toon (just go to your classic lvl 50 dungeon) so I had the dust. Only extra cost was making the perfect gem, which as you said was about 30g a pop. So it cost me materials I already had plus about 120g for perfect gems. So for ~120g, I was able to put on 3 resist stats and 1 main stat, plus the time I already invested in raiding/farming/rvring so it is well worth it to me.

ahh the good old "stuff i already have is considered free"-fallacy

Do you evaluate prices IRL like that too? Buying something with that basically only costs the time to find the product online and filling out the shipping adress. I mean, going to work multiple days a week is already a given, so money is already in the bank account.

Mon 29 Jun 2020 5:20 PM by yepyukon

Yes I do actually, they are called sunk cost. If I know I am going to spend $30 a week on gas, then I factor that in. If I drive more, I only include it the $30 I already have factored and not that it took me $50 in gas that week. Yes, it took time to farm items and go on raids, but I did not have to spend any money for the stuff I had already. Not sure why you are being such a dick about this though. If you disagree, I don't care. Everything I have said so far has been "I like it" or "it is worth it to me". I never said you had to because I truly don't care if you do.

edit: for typo

Tue 30 Jun 2020 7:34 AM by Sepplord

yepyukon wrote: ↑
Mon 29 Jun 2020 5:20 PM
Yes I do actually, they are called sunk cost. If I know I am going to spend $30 a week on gas, then I factor that in. If I drive more, I only include it the $30 I already have factored and not that it took me $50 in gas that week. Yes, it took time to farm items and go on raids, but I did not have to spend any money for the stuff I had already. Not sure why you are being such a dick about this though. If you disagree, I don't care. Everything I have said so far has been "I like it" or "it is worth it to me". I never said you had to because I truly don't care if you do.

edit: for typo

Sorry for being a dick about it, that wasn't neccesary. I got a bit carried away because it is just annoying that in any economy or discussion about prices in online games there is always that one dude showing up, with a stash full of materials claiming something akin to "i had this valuable stuff lying around anyways, so i will just not factor in its cost and then reach the conclusion that the current prices are really cheap".
It's like bill gates coming into a discussion about a 100$ Can of Soda and saying, this ain't too bad. I have been drinking it all week and haven't noticed any changes in my bank account, i don't know what all the fuss is about.

Tue 30 Jun 2020 8:24 PM by Spiegal

Spiegal wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Jun 2020 1:00 AM
Those numbers are incorrect.

+1 resist from 1% to 2% heat resist would cost me 90 Phoenix Ash and 30 Phoenix Dust . That seemed pretty expensive even for the lowest tier upgrade.
Can we expect a change in those trade values?

The price from +2 to +3% heat resist is even more expense 45 Dust and 135 Ash.

So yeah, better pay the plat for a high ROG now

Wed 1 Jul 2020 7:10 AM by gotwqqd

Spiegal wrote: ↑
Tue 30 Jun 2020 8:24 PM
Spiegal wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Jun 2020 1:00 AM
Those numbers are incorrect.

+1 resist from 1% to 2% heat resist would cost me 90 Phoenix Ash and 30 Phoenix Dust . That seemed pretty expensive even for the lowest tier upgrade.
Can we expect a change in those trade values?

The price from +2 to +3% heat resist is even more expense 45 Dust and 135 Ash.

So yeah, better pay the plat for a high ROG now

I think every upgrade is approx 50% increase from the previous .... small deviations due to rounding seem to lower costs slightly.

I do think that a system that was lower cost for the earlier (1-4 or 5) where @6 it would be about where it is now, but higher than 6 would increase much greater than costs now

I think 1-2 should be about 10% of what it is now
And costs escalate much faster.

Wed 1 Jul 2020 7:44 AM by gotwqqd

I think a good cost would be....

For resists/power e^(existing resist value)=dust
For stats e^(existing stat value-1)=dust

Ash cost is 2*dust in all cases

The costs for 1to 2 up to 4to 5 would much lower dust costs
@5 to 6 about same as now.....above would be for those that have money to burn. Feather costs would be lower until 7.....then rapidly rising

Mon 6 Jul 2020 10:23 PM by Sagz

Now the idea behind the change they made is cool, my only issue to change is let us salvage ALL jewelry. I noticed that in leveling in demons breach I received a TON of jewelry that i cannot salvage, even at 1 dust a piece it would be nice. So this way if you are leveling a character you can salvage everything you do not need and use it for when you hit 50 to help with the template.

My Idea

How about make all jewelry salvageable depending on level
LVL
1-19 = 1 dust
20-29 = 2 dust
30-39 = 3 dust
40-49 = 4 dust
50 and 51 = you get the 5-11 dust depending on quality

Just my thoughts......

Tue 11 Aug 2020 11:27 PM by Tamtrooper

I viewed these changes with trepidation. I now think, however, that the changes are spectacular! Issues can be made with the amount of feathers required or the lack of dust etc. but the change itself has brought an amazing change to templating. Initially the ability to create random RoGs from remnants was awesome. Now, in addition, we can tweak stats and resists by a point or two or three or..... . Why not hits too? In any case, THANK YOU once again to the amazing Phoenix team that has breathed new life into an old game in so many interesting ways. Keep up the great work I wholeheartedly appreciate it.

Mon 17 Aug 2020 9:49 AM by Centenario

I have brought an item to more than 150utility with this system.
If they make changes they should announce, it cost me a fortune.

Mon 17 Aug 2020 9:52 AM by

Uthred

Centenario wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Aug 2020 9:49 AM
If they make changes they should announce, it cost me a fortune.

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 30 May 2020 8:46 PM
Example costs:
Level 51 rog, increase existing Strength from 1 to 2:
110 dust, Perfect fiery essence jewel, 330 Phoenix Ash

Level 51 rog, increase existing Strength from 9 to 10:
650 dust, Perfect fiery essence jewel, 1950 Phoenix Ash

Total for increasing existing Strength from 1 to 10 on a level 51 rog:
3219 dust, 9 Perfect fiery essence jewel, 9657 Phoenix Ash

Level 51 rog, increase existing Strength from 16 to 17:
1770 dust, Perfect fiery essence jewel, 5310 Phoenix Ash

Level 51 rog, increase existing Slash resist from 1 to 2:
330 dust, Perfect watery shielding jewel, 990 Phoenix Ash

Level 51 rog, increase existing Slash resist from 9 to 10:
1950 dust, Perfect watery shielding jewel, 5850 Phoenix Ash

Careful, it might cost you a fortune!

Wed 26 Aug 2020 12:36 PM by Sabatasso79

So the whole idea of being accessible was scrapped just like that? Right...

What is it really you guys are after? A lively RvR zone where most people are temped out and ready for battle, or a somewhat lively RvR zone where 50% of the population is grinding templates in the PvE zones at any given time?

I just wonder...

Sun 30 Aug 2020 8:58 PM by Laron

Especially with the new search filters in the web app (cudos to that, btw), Jewelcrafting is not really attractive or cost efficient anymore. If I need a bracer with +x Str, y%cold and +z HP for my template, chances are that I can find one for less gold than it would cost to upgrade one that I already have.

Tue 1 Sep 2020 3:07 PM by Beeblebrox

Laron wrote: ↑
Sun 30 Aug 2020 8:58 PM
Especially with the new search filters in the web app (cudos to that, btw), Jewelcrafting is not really attractive or cost efficient anymore. If I need a bracer with +x Str, y%cold and +z HP for my template, chances are that I can find one for less gold than it would cost to upgrade one that I already have.

Yes that is what I have decided. Using Jewelcrafting is not very cost effective.

Wed 16 Sep 2020 12:48 PM by Rhyniel

Tamtrooper wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 11:27 PM
Why not hits too?

Would be great to add hits and power

Wed 16 Sep 2020 1:12 PM by Valaraukar

Rhyniel wrote: ↑
Wed 16 Sep 2020 12:48 PM
Tamtrooper wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Aug 2020 11:27 PM
Why not hits too?
Would be great to add hits and power

Indeed!

Mon 5 Oct 2020 2:46 PM by Talo

"Level 51 rog, increase existing Slash resist from 1 to 2:
330 dust, Perfect watery shielding jewel, 990 Phoenix Ash"

This seems not to be up to date. Raised one resistance from 1 to 2 % and payed 30 dust and 90 ash.
Now I have 900 ash surplus. -.-