Player population - Phoenix Freeshard

I am starting to think that maybe there are not as many players as we think with so many cheaters being banned for multiple accounts.

Thu 7 Feb 2019 1:37 PM by Dominus

Personally, I'd prefer to have a smaller honest population than a large group of script kiddies who need to play outside the rules. Sadly, this level of cheating consumes alot of time of our Devs and GMs when they could be either playing the game, or working on improvements. Cheaters hurt us all.

Thu 7 Feb 2019 4:43 PM by jg777

Let’s say a good 15% are multi account abusers. We’re still peaking at well over 3k+ population on weekends- that’s Live server numbers if I recall. Pretty pleased with that.

Thu 7 Feb 2019 6:13 PM by Luluko

jg777 wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Feb 2019 4:43 PM
Let’s say a good 15% are multi account abusers. We’re still peaking at well over 3k+ population on weekends- that’s Live server numbers if I recall. Pretty pleased with that.

not anymore ywain can be happy if it gets 1000people at the weekend and primetime but even those are numbers which are probably out of date since many moved to phoenix for better action

Thu 7 Feb 2019 6:40 PM by slunky45

Phoenix is right on par for a new DAoC freeshard. I'd say a realistic goal is seeing peaks around 1k by late summer.

Thu 7 Feb 2019 7:45 PM by jg777

Luluko wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Feb 2019 6:13 PM
jg777 wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Feb 2019 4:43 PM
Let’s say a good 15% are multi account abusers. We’re still peaking at well over 3k+ population on weekends- that’s Live server numbers if I recall. Pretty pleased with that.

not anymore ywain can be happy if it gets 1000people at the weekend and primetime but even those are numbers which are probably out of date since many moved to phoenix for better action

I meant Live servers when I played eons ago.

Thu 7 Feb 2019 8:18 PM by Calconious

Luluko wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Feb 2019 6:13 PM
jg777 wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Feb 2019 4:43 PM
Let’s say a good 15% are multi account abusers. We’re still peaking at well over 3k+ population on weekends- that’s Live server numbers if I recall. Pretty pleased with that.

not anymore ywain can be happy if it gets 1000people at the weekend and primetime but even those are numbers which are probably out of date since many moved to phoenix for better action

It's was like 200-250 per realm on a good night BEFORE Phoenix opened. Numbers have plummeted and multiple zerg leaders have quit in the past month-few months.

Also Live allows bot accounts and a lot still have them. I'd say on a Saturday night US prime.. they are hitting about 300 actual live players combined 3 realms...Maybe slightly more.

I see a lot of familiar names from Live Mid.. playing on Phoenix nightly now.

Thu 7 Feb 2019 10:05 PM by jg777

Calconious wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Feb 2019 8:18 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Feb 2019 6:13 PM
jg777 wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Feb 2019 4:43 PM
Let’s say a good 15% are multi account abusers. We’re still peaking at well over 3k+ population on weekends- that’s Live server numbers if I recall. Pretty pleased with that.

not anymore ywain can be happy if it gets 1000people at the weekend and primetime but even those are numbers which are probably out of date since many moved to phoenix for better action

It's was like 200-250 per realm on a good night BEFORE Phoenix opened. Numbers have plummeted and multiple zerg leaders have quit in the past month-few months.

Also Live allows bot accounts and a lot still have them. I'd say on a Saturday night US prime.. they are hitting about 300 actual live players combined 3 realms...Maybe slightly more.

I see a lot of familiar names from Live Mid.. playing on Phoenix nightly now.

For such an old game I’m not really surprised. Additionally it sounds like over the years the game has taken a really bad turn for the worse by developers. Thankfully Phoenix exists to keep the DAoC fun alive!

Fri 8 Feb 2019 1:43 AM by Gfxygames

Ill preface this by saying I think this server is a different situation than the other server. But, remember, this is the honeymoon phase. The other server had its honeymoon phase as well. I hope people keep the positive attitude here, but that can all change with time. I do believe this is a much different situation as the staff seems more focused on providing a fun experience instead of a hard set "if you don't like it leave" attitude. Time will tell, hope the numbers keep climbing.

Fri 8 Feb 2019 6:01 AM by Karqa

Whn Uthgard 2 server released, It has 3-4k people playin in its first week but in a month It has 1-1,5k players. After 3 months, under 1k. Now It has 20-50 players. Ithink you shouldn't compare the servers so far. We dont have arrogant DEVs or gms, players are positive, ıts a casual friendly game here. They are all my opinion. ı also played in uthgard more than 4 years.

Ty for reading.

Fri 8 Feb 2019 3:45 PM by lurker

Yes, far to early to say yet. But population looks promising. People should expect to see a significant dip over the coming months, take a look at the Steam Stats for any newly released MMO/Server (Albion Online, Etc). It is the standard.

The question is how big a loyal player base will be left after that initial period. Can they maintain that moving forward.

There are a lot of positives here to keep people around but you will never please everyone. So we live in hope. All good so far.

Sat 9 Feb 2019 12:24 AM by rubaduck

The cheaters are getting caught rather quick, and if they don't learn from it they'll get removed entirely.

Take in to consideration, that the highest pop recorded were 3 weeks in after the launch. That is a healthy sign that the devs are listening to the players. I do of course expect the numbers to dwindle over time, it's natural but I hope people give Phoenix a fair chance before they put it down.

Sat 9 Feb 2019 12:38 AM by Doiri

lurker wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Feb 2019 3:45 PM
Yes, far to early to say yet. But population looks promising. People should expect to see a significant dip over the coming months, take a look at the Steam Stats for any newly released MMO/Server (Albion Online, Etc). It is the standard.

The question is how big a loyal player base will be left after that initial period. Can they maintain that moving forward.

There are a lot of positives here to keep people around but you will never please everyone. So we live in hope. All good so far.

many potential customers (old daoc players) don't even know about this server i'm sure. posting videos on youtube might be a way to reach these people. i found my way to phoenix because nostalgia hit me and i was browsing for daoc content on youtube.

Sat 9 Feb 2019 5:35 PM by waffel

Word of mouth should continue to bring in vets and new players alike, offsetting player bleed. If Phoenix players can continue spreading the news, along with twitch and other outlets opening more eyes, population could continue to slowly grow in the coming months. Obviously it’ll slow down at some point, then it’s on the great devs to do their magic (which they’ve done an amazing job of so far)

Comparing this to an MMO releasing and bleeding players isn’t fair for a variety of reasons.

Sat 9 Feb 2019 7:20 PM by relvinian

I think a congratz should go out to the devs on a job well done. I also think population and listening to players should remain one of the top priorities for the server.

We are 30 days in and today when i logged in population was sitting at 3200 people.

Not bad, Devs. Not bad at all.

Sat 9 Feb 2019 10:01 PM by Mac

I enjoy Phoenix but I'm concerned that's too easy here and won't keep many coming back week after week.

Sat 9 Feb 2019 10:10 PM by Waygone

Mac wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 10:01 PM
I enjoy Phoenix but I'm concerned that's too easy here and won't keep many coming back week after week.

Yeah, that's why Uthgard wasn't bleeding to death after the first month. Just hard enough..
In my opinion the process to end game is just right and the server will record but not nearly as fast as the aforementioned freeshard.

Sat 9 Feb 2019 10:17 PM by Mac

Waygone wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 10:10 PM
Mac wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 10:01 PM
I enjoy Phoenix but I'm concerned that's too easy here and won't keep many coming back week after week.

Yeah, that's why Uthgard wasn't bleeding to death after the first month. Just hard enough..
In my opinion the process to end game is just right and the server will record but not nearly as fast as the aforementioned freeshard.

I think the leveling speed here is spot on, no need to require months of PvE to prepare for RvR. But AFTER leveling to 50 and templating, it's STILL too dang easy. I fear people will tire of easy mode after a few weeks

Mon 11 Feb 2019 9:22 AM by Terrence

Mac wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 10:01 PM
I enjoy Phoenix but I'm concerned that's too easy here and won't keep many coming back week after week.

Easy for what? Win against enemy players? Reach 50? Reach RR9? Have a number of temped characters to RvR with? Lots of goals to reach, lvl 50 is just a minor one and people don't stop playing after reaching it, quite the contrary. Uthgard has experienced huge population decline precisely because most people realized they would not be able to reach their own goals within a reasonable timeframe.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 9:59 AM by Karqa

Mac wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 10:01 PM
I enjoy Phoenix but I'm concerned that's too easy here and won't keep many coming back week after week.

If your goal is only hittin 50, It might happen but 50 with a good template+RR+crafting. Hmm Its not easy

At least I will be here till camelot unchained release date

Mon 11 Feb 2019 11:21 AM by jg777

Mac wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 10:17 PM
Waygone wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 10:10 PM
Mac wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 10:01 PM
I enjoy Phoenix but I'm concerned that's too easy here and won't keep many coming back week after week.

Yeah, that's why Uthgard wasn't bleeding to death after the first month. Just hard enough..
In my opinion the process to end game is just right and the server will record but not nearly as fast as the aforementioned freeshard.

I think the leveling speed here is spot on, no need to require months of PvE to prepare for RvR. But AFTER leveling to 50 and templating, it's STILL too dang easy. I fear people will tire of easy mode after a few weeks

If it’s ease of getting a character that can access and reasonably participate in whatever activities they desire then that should only help retain players. Want to go on PvE raids? They occur almost daily. Want to RvR? Plenty of opportunities. Want to craft new items? Ability to skill up and craft anything you want. Create a farming group? Can do that. Level a new character without a huge time investment for weeks, perhaps on a different realm? Absolutely, solo or group. Join a guild or alliance to chat and hang out? You bet! Why can one do all that? Because the Phoenix staff has created a server that allows one to access all areas of the game without a mandatory excessive time investment to reach the ability to do that. The result is a playerbase now there to support all those activities, creating a harmonious circle where a server attracts players and players support retaining players. It’s a beautiful thing.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 1:45 PM by Mac

Karqa wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 9:59 AM
Mac wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 10:01 PM
I enjoy Phoenix but I'm concerned that's too easy here and won't keep many coming back week after week.
If your goal is only hittin 50, It might happen but 50 with a good template+RR+crafting. Hmm Its not easy
At least I will be here till camelot unchained release date

It takes two day to reacj 50 here. I can't imagine ANYONE has that as a goal. It takes 2 weeks to be fully templated and RR5.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 2:25 PM by Karqa

Mac wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 1:45 PM
Karqa wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 9:59 AM
Mac wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 10:01 PM
I enjoy Phoenix but I'm concerned that's too easy here and won't keep many coming back week after week.
If your goal is only hittin 50, It might happen but 50 with a good template+RR+crafting. Hmm Its not easy
At least I will be here till camelot unchained release date

It takes two day to reacj 50 here. I can't imagine ANYONE has that as a goal. It takes 2 weeks to be fully templated and RR5.

I have been playin since the release but couldnt hit 50 yet. I have only 2 toons . 48.5 reaver, 42 cabalist. I am a casual after all. And are u done with rr5 ?

your argument is funny bro.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 3:21 PM by PingGuy

For me, the goal is fun RvR action. I started following the realm tasks at about level 33. Sometimes I can't make it to the target area, and can't participate, sometimes I can. But that's been during the progression of level 33 to 38. Once I get closer to 50 I hope for more relevance in the action. Leveling takes longer than two days, even if you go 48 hours without sleep you will be barely touching 50. Things have sped up since the recent changes, but most won't find it as fast as some are saying.

Still, it's fast enough, and those with lots of time and knowledge of the game won't have to wait long to get into the action. I worry more about player number imbalances in RvR affecting the health of the server. Sometimes it feels like it's just us Hibs versus the Mids and Albion is off picking daisies or something. Maybe they show up more in Emain, which I have trouble reaching sometimes, so I'm just missing them . But I'd expect to see them in Odin's more than I do, especially when the task is just to be involved in combat, and they can port there. But maybe I'm missing something.

I'm fine with jumping to the lower participating realms eventually, but I level slower and have less time than most to do that. Still I'd like to have RvR ready toons in every realm eventually. I picked Hib when the server launched thinking it would be the lowest, and it wasn't, but I'm loving the classes so I haven't moved around yet.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 3:44 PM by Mac

Karqa wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 2:25 PM
Mac wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 1:45 PM
Karqa wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 9:59 AM
If your goal is only hittin 50, It might happen but 50 with a good template+RR+crafting. Hmm Its not easy
At least I will be here till camelot unchained release date

It takes two day to reacj 50 here. I can't imagine ANYONE has that as a goal. It takes 2 weeks to be fully templated and RR5.

I have been playin since the release but couldnt hit 50 yet. I have only 2 toons . 48.5 reaver, 42 cabalist. I am a casual after all. And are u done with rr5 ? your argument is funny bro.

The game's been live for 30 days today and we already have 30 characters @ 7L0 or higher. No, my goal isnt to be RR5, it's to be RR13. I've been playing DAoC since the closed beta days in 2000, but, in my experience if it's too easy to reach a goal, many people wont bother.

I know we have many players who enjoy this WoWified version of DAoC where everyone gets their participation trophies, but will many still be playing in 6 months? I doubt it.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 4:14 PM by PingGuy

I hate WoW more than most, but I don't think you get why this current configuration is good for the health of the server.

*** Accessibility ***

I'm a noob, never even did PvP or RvR in the original DAoC, despite reaching level 30 or so at the time. This time around, I don't have to know what I'm doing to get involved. I don't need to be accepted by an 8-man group. I just need to go out and follow the tasks and see what happens. Watch other players, watch what happens to me when I make certain choices. And for that I get some advancement so I can stay relevant. I can get Tireless, LW, and a couple ranks of Purge, and start to be more useful.

Let's be honest, you get like 1000 rp's for participating in a task. Who is hitting RR7 on that? I'm 2L3 and it's starting to slow down a bit. But at least I can purge a 30 second mez now, instead of sitting there like an idiot. Without the participation rewards, I'd be humped, and I'd have given up after my first day of RvR. The only thing I ever liked about WoW was the Battlegrounds. Get in, do stuff with people who have the same goal, get out. Even if you suck, you get a chance to make a difference. The realm tasks accomplish the same thing here.

People act like it's just show up and get points, but it's not always that easy to show up. I generally never make it to Emain, the Mids have flowed out into Breifine by the time I get there and they kill me quick. Getting close to a keep to actually get credit for hitting the door or guards? I'm 2 for 6 or so on that. Most of the time I never get near it. As a Hib, fight in Odin's or fight in Hadrian's are the only guaranteed realm points in any task cycle. The dominate's are hit or miss, with Breifine being the only reasonable one, and still sometimes I get killed before I get there.

Amazingly, I've managed to get by some stealthers, they don't get me every time. But when they don't, there's usually a group somewhere ahead that stops me. And that's the risk of playing solo, but it allows me to get involved and learn without ruining other people's days. I don't expect to be high RR, I just want to get in some good action. And that's happened already, despite my low level and low RR. I've healed people who were about to die and they lived, I've killed people I wouldn't have expected to be able to kill. It's fun, and the tasks helped it get that way.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 8:20 PM by Mac

PingGuy wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 4:14 PM
I hate WoW more than most, but I don't think you get why this current configuration is good for the health of the server.

*** Accessibility ***

I'm a noob, never even did PvP or RvR in the original DAoC, despite reaching level 30 or so at the time. This time around, I don't have to know what I'm doing to get involved. I don't need to be accepted by an 8-man group. I just need to go out and follow the tasks and see what happens. Watch other players, watch what happens to me when I make certain choices. And for that I get some advancement so I can stay relevant. I can get Tireless, LW, and a couple ranks of Purge, and start to be more useful.

Let's be honest, you get like 1000 rp's for participating in a task. Who is hitting RR7 on that? I'm 2L3 and it's starting to slow down a bit. But at least I can purge a 30 second mez now, instead of sitting there like an idiot. Without the participation rewards, I'd be humped, and I'd have given up after my first day of RvR. The only thing I ever liked about WoW was the Battlegrounds. Get in, do stuff with people who have the same goal, get out. Even if you suck, you get a chance to make a difference. The realm tasks accomplish the same thing here.

People act like it's just show up and get points, but it's not always that easy to show up. I generally never make it to Emain, the Mids have flowed out into Breifine by the time I get there and they kill me quick. Getting close to a keep to actually get credit for hitting the door or guards? I'm 2 for 6 or so on that. Most of the time I never get near it. As a Hib, fight in Odin's or fight in Hadrian's are the only guaranteed realm points in any task cycle. The dominate's are hit or miss, with Breifine being the only reasonable one, and still sometimes I get killed before I get there.

Amazingly, I've managed to get by some stealthers, they don't get me every time. But when they don't, there's usually a group somewhere ahead that stops me. And that's the risk of playing solo, but it allows me to get involved and learn without ruining other people's days. I don't expect to be high RR, I just want to get in some good action. And that's happened already, despite my low level and low RR. I've healed people who were about to die and they lived, I've killed people I wouldn't have expected to be able to kill. It's fun, and the tasks helped it get that way.

I hear ya, and I can see it from your viewpoint as a solo casual player. BUT... Will you still be here in 6 months when the RR10+ are ROFLstomping you?

Mon 11 Feb 2019 8:41 PM by PingGuy

Mac wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 8:20 PM
I hear ya, and I can see it from your viewpoint as a solo casual player. BUT... Will you still be here in 6 months when the RR10+ are ROFLstomping you?

That's a fair question. I hope to be. But I should also mention that since I've been solo in the RvR zerg since level 33, and I'm currently 38, getting ROFLstomped is about the only thing I do now.

Based on how I'm playing, I'd say as long as there is an active zerg, there is a good chance I'll be here. I mean everybody burns out, takes breaks and so forth, but whether or not they come back after a break depends on what there is to come back to.

Maybe someday I'll feel competent and confident enough to join up with a group, and maybe my view of RvR will change. But for now, I feel it's better if I let the perfectionists do their organized thing, and follow behind them, healing and meleeing when I can. The tasks seem to create the zerg, and I don't think I could be out there now without it. Not in any way that was fun at least.

The reality is that to keep the player population high, we need all playstyles to be fun in some way. The stealthers need to succeed enough to keep them logging in, the 8-man's need to be out roaming, the small-man's need to keep forming up and heading out. The zerg is the gateway drug to RvR, you know there will be action, and if you go out enough you will have chances to play a part effectively. But is the zerg alone enough? Probably not. So how do you keep people with different playstyles engaged, without negatively affecting other playstyles? That's hard to say, and beyond my experience level to recommend.

With that said, I think some mix of tasks for different playstyles could work. Noobs like me need "fight in" tasks in zones we can get to easily. I really can't say what kinds of tasks would help keep high RR players in well organized groups engaged. But I think if there was a rotation of tasks for different playstyles, then it could be beneficial long term.

EDIT: I should also add that I don't know what kind of rewards would make sense for tasks targeted at high RR players, but that would be in important factor in implementing them.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 8:22 AM by Mac

PingGuy wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 8:41 PM
Mac wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 8:20 PM
I hear ya, and I can see it from your viewpoint as a solo casual player. BUT... Will you still be here in 6 months when the RR10+ are ROFLstomping you?

That's a fair question. I hope to be. But I should also mention that since I've been solo in the RvR zerg since level 33, and I'm currently 38, getting ROFLstomped is about the only thing I do now. Based on how I'm playing, I'd say as long as there is an active zerg, there is a good chance I'll be here. I mean everybody burns out, takes breaks and so forth, but whether or not they come back after a break depends on what there is to come back to.

Maybe someday I'll feel competent and confident enough to join up with a group, and maybe my view of RvR will change. But for now, I feel it's better if I let the perfectionists do their organized thing, and follow behind them, healing and meleeing when I can. The tasks seem to create the zerg, and I don't think I could be out there now without it. Not in any way that was fun at least.

The reality is that to keep the player population high, we need all playstyles to be fun in some way. The stealthers need to succeed enough to keep them logging in, the 8-man's need to be out roaming, the small-man's need to keep forming up and heading out. The zerg is the gateway drug to RvR, you know there will be action, and if you go out enough you will have chances to play a part effectively. But is the zerg alone enough? Probably not. So how do you keep people with different playstyles engaged, without negatively affecting other playstyles? That's hard to say, and beyond my experience level to recommend.

With that said, I think some mix of tasks for different playstyles could work. Noobs like me need "fight in" tasks in zones we can get to easily. I really can't say what kinds of tasks would help keep high RR players in well organized groups engaged. But I think if there was a rotation of tasks for different playstyles, then it could be beneficial long term.

EDIT: I should also add that I don't know what kind of rewards would make sense for tasks targeted at high RR players, but that would be in important factor in implementing them.

It's likely that the high RR players don't need tasks to keep em going. They live to kill other players.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 8:32 AM by Terrence

Karqa wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 2:25 PM
Mac wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 1:45 PM
Karqa wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 9:59 AM
If your goal is only hittin 50, It might happen but 50 with a good template+RR+crafting. Hmm Its not easy
At least I will be here till camelot unchained release date

It takes two day to reacj 50 here. I can't imagine ANYONE has that as a goal. It takes 2 weeks to be fully templated and RR5.

I have been playin since the release but couldnt hit 50 yet. I have only 2 toons . 48.5 reaver, 42 cabalist. I am a casual after all. And are u done with rr5 ? your argument is funny bro.

He is probably talking about /played time, 2 days or 48 hours played is a reasonable assumption for many players who get a mix of groups and solo.
2 Weeks aka about 300h played after reaching 50 to achieve temp, RR5 equals 1'700 rps/h and would be painfully slow though...

But I fully agree with previous posters, the long term health of the server depends to a large degree on the accessibility to more casual players. Tasks that are doable, zergs you can join solo, as small men or inexperienced fgs are very important.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 8:59 AM by Mac

Terrence wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 8:32 AM
Karqa wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 2:25 PM
Mac wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 1:45 PM
It takes two day to reacj 50 here. I can't imagine ANYONE has that as a goal. It takes 2 weeks to be fully templated and RR5.

I have been playin since the release but couldnt hit 50 yet. I have only 2 toons . 48.5 reaver, 42 cabalist. I am a casual after all. And are u done with rr5 ? your argument is funny bro.

He is probably talking about /played time, 2 days or 48 hours played is a reasonable assumption for many players who get a mix of groups and solo.
2 Weeks aka about 300h played after reaching 50 to achieve temp, RR5 equals 1'700 rps/h and would be painfully slow though...

But I fully agree with previous posters, the long term health of the server depends to a large degree on the accessibility to more casual players. Tasks that are doable, zergs you can join solo, as small men or inexperienced fgs are very important.

Nope, I ment 2 calendar days of 10 hours /played per day. If you do grouping and XP items you get 50 in about 20 hours /played.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 12:14 PM by Karqa

Mac wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 8:59 AM
Terrence wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 8:32 AM
Karqa wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 2:25 PM
I have been playin since the release but couldnt hit 50 yet. I have only 2 toons . 48.5 reaver, 42 cabalist. I am a casual after all. And are u done with rr5 ? your argument is funny bro.

He is probably talking about /played time, 2 days or 48 hours played is a reasonable assumption for many players who get a mix of groups and solo.
2 Weeks aka about 300h played after reaching 50 to achieve temp, RR5 equals 1'700 rps/h and would be painfully slow though...

But I fully agree with previous posters, the long term health of the server depends to a large degree on the accessibility to more casual players. Tasks that are doable, zergs you can join solo, as small men or inexperienced fgs are very important.

Nope, I ment 2 calendar days of 10 hours /played per day. If you do grouping and XP items you get 50 in about 20 hours /played.

I really dont understand your problem mate. Why uthgard doesnt have 4k players atm? let me give u the answer because we are mostly 30+ lads with work+family+responsibilities+bllshts.Anyway uthgard lost most of their players cause their hardcore lvlin+classic painful daoc style in 2001.And players said no ty. They didnt listen the community.Now they have 23-30 players duellin at amg emain. Hardcore doesnt mean its fun. Since millions doesnt discover daoc again. you have to go with casual daoc fan players. Thats all.

Daoc in phoenix server offers many services for hardcore no lifers + me casual gamers. But casual daoc players' population > hardcore no lifers' population = simple math.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 12:26 PM by Mac

Uthgard/s staff confuses tedious with challenging IMO. No one wants to farm the same dang mobs for weeks prior to starting to RvR. IMO, Phoenix has done the leveling time needed to become ready for RvR just about right, HOWEVER, they kept that easy mode approach to RvR too and that's a mistake. I think most players, even those who are very casual would like to think that their efforts in RvR are rewarded because they've overcame a challenging game. That's my worry, that people wont stay for more than a few weeks in easy mode DAoC.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 12:27 PM by jg777

The focus should be if players are having fun. Ultimately if you enjoy the actual gameplay it shouldn’t matter that the leveling is fast or how easy it is to gain some realm points. There are players to kill, raids to participate in, groups to join in leveling characters, Battlegrounds with player activity, and it all appears to be working as intended by the Phoenix staff team because the player population continues to grow since launch. Hit over 4K peak this weekend, that’s definitely player population back in the day on Live servers. Healthy servers are always more fun for everyone.

We’ll see if players get bored and leave down the road. But I’d wager for every player that leaves at least one casual joins. Most wouldn’t dream of attaining RR8+ for example- at this rate players have a real shot of doing that down the road because the playerbase is so large that your chances of gaining measurable realm points if you log on a few hours is quite high- that’s a good thing, it keeps players coming back for more and feeling a sense of attainability to reach high end goals- even if you can only play a few hours on the weekends.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 12:32 PM by Durgrim

Mac wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 12:26 PM
Uthgard/s staff confuses tedious with challenging IMO. No one wants to farm the same dang mobs for weeks prior to starting to RvR. IMO, Phoenix has done the leveling time needed to become ready for RvR just about right, HOWEVER, they kept that easy mode approach to RvR too and that's a mistake. I think most players, even those who are very casual would like to think that their efforts in RvR are rewarded because they've overcame a challenging game. That's my worry, that people wont stay for more than a few weeks in easy mode DAoC.

You are talking about a very special species of players:
Those, who see their elitist status going down the drain due to zerg and equally equipped casuals. Those, whose invested massive playing time does not pay off at the expected extend.
But those are in minority and a 4k playerbase can easily suck it up.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 1:00 PM by Sepplord

Durgrim wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 12:32 PM
Mac wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 12:26 PM
Uthgard/s staff confuses tedious with challenging IMO. No one wants to farm the same dang mobs for weeks prior to starting to RvR. IMO, Phoenix has done the leveling time needed to become ready for RvR just about right, HOWEVER, they kept that easy mode approach to RvR too and that's a mistake. I think most players, even those who are very casual would like to think that their efforts in RvR are rewarded because they've overcame a challenging game. That's my worry, that people wont stay for more than a few weeks in easy mode DAoC.

You are talking about a very special species of players:
Those, who see their elitist status going down the drain due to zerg and equally equipped casuals. Those, whose invested massive playing time does not pay off at the expected extend.
But those are in minority and a 4k playerbase can easily suck it up.

I wouldn't go THAT far...these groups are equipped with skills (through playtime, learning efforts and organisationskills themselves) that the casual mass will never get, even if they have RR advantage they would get rolled more than not. And it IS paying of...they are earning RPs at a much faster rate than the casual zergers.

These groups hate zergs though, because zergs are the only thing where they die without getting a nice fight out of it. When they lose VS another 8man, it sucks, but it's a skillquestion and a close fight is still fun even if you lose. It's understandable.

What makes a difference is how they react, some feel like everyone who isn't on their level needs to deinstall and stfu and show that attitude openly....some are decent people and just have a different playstyle than the casual mass. Just like in the Zerg there are morons and good guys.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 2:34 PM by Durgrim

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 1:00 PM
Durgrim wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 12:32 PM
Mac wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 12:26 PM
Uthgard/s staff confuses tedious with challenging IMO. No one wants to farm the same dang mobs for weeks prior to starting to RvR. IMO, Phoenix has done the leveling time needed to become ready for RvR just about right, HOWEVER, they kept that easy mode approach to RvR too and that's a mistake. I think most players, even those who are very casual would like to think that their efforts in RvR are rewarded because they've overcame a challenging game. That's my worry, that people wont stay for more than a few weeks in easy mode DAoC.

You are talking about a very special species of players:
Those, who see their elitist status going down the drain due to zerg and equally equipped casuals. Those, whose invested massive playing time does not pay off at the expected extend.
But those are in minority and a 4k playerbase can easily suck it up.

I wouldn't go THAT far...these groups are equipped with skills (through playtime, learning efforts and organisationskills themselves) that the casual mass will never get, even if they have RR advantage they would get rolled more than not. And it IS paying of...they are earning RPs at a much faster rate than the casual zergers.

These groups hate zergs though, because zergs are the only thing where they die without getting a nice fight out of it. When they lose VS another 8man, it sucks, but it's a skillquestion and a close fight is still fun even if you lose. It's understandable.

What makes a difference is how they react, some feel like everyone who isn't on their level needs to deinstall and stfu and show that attitude openly....some are decent people and just have a different playstyle than the casual mass. Just like in the Zerg there are morons and good guys.

you put it very diplomatic

I tried to enlight and exaggerate on this on purpose.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 2:59 PM by PingGuy

Mac wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 8:22 AM
It's likely that the high RR players don't need tasks to keep em going. They live to kill other players.

That makes sense, but what if the tasks are the main thing bringing them targets and fresh meat? The problem with being really good at PvP is that people get sick of losing to you over and over again. When there are people everywhere, amid the chaos, people are less likely to say "oh shit, it's that Mac guy again, run for the hills."

Tue 12 Feb 2019 3:20 PM by PingGuy

Mac wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 8:59 AM
Nope, I ment 2 calendar days of 10 hours /played per day. If you do grouping and XP items you get 50 in about 20 hours /played.

That is a pretty skewed view of leveling on Phoenix. First let me say that I'm not complaining about the leveling speed, but you are talking about the bottom end of an average where the samples go much higher. Not everybody knows all the secrets, not everybody is hardcore or can commit to long sessions to level quick. When I came back and made a Blademaster, I hadn't played DAoC in at least 10 years, and never past 10 in Hibernia. I got some groups, and did some soloing, but I was still in my 20's when I hit 20 hours. I didn't even know about the XP items until my mid 20's.

Now, I started my Warden after the Phoenix Egg changes, and that helped a lot, but when you are solo, things slow down a lot. I have grouped a bit, but have been mostly solo on this toon. Since I've been RvR'ing a bunch, my /played doesn't represent leveling time properly anymore. But you have to remember that getting the best XP items for your level is much harder to do solo. The last last few levels (37, 38) the items I turned in were barely giving half a bubble per item, and that was for the best items I had at the time, not all even gave that much. The kill tasks give like 3/4's of a bubble, and killing yellows and oranges is slow but better than nothing. Phoenix Eggs are nearly useless at this point, even after the increase.

So yes, some people will hit 50 in around 20 hours played, but not all, and I'd be surprised if it was most. But that doesn't matter in the long run, it only matters if people are having fun. I've got somewhere between 80 to 100 hours into Phoenix so far, and that got me a 39 Warden with 20k RPs, a 31 BM, and an 8 Animist. Who knows how long it will take me to hit 50, and get a template. I only care that I'm advancing and it's not a slog at this pace.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 3:21 PM by Mac

PingGuy wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 2:59 PM
Mac wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 8:22 AM
It's likely that the high RR players don't need tasks to keep em going. They live to kill other players.

That makes sense, but what if the tasks are the main thing bringing them targets and fresh meat? The problem with being really good at PvP is that people get sick of losing to you over and over again. When there are people everywhere, amid the chaos, people are less likely to say "oh shit, it's that Mac guy again, run for the hills."

Yer safe from Mac! He's not even level 20! But Gil... He might kill ya.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 3:30 PM by Mac

PingGuy wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 3:20 PM
Mac wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 8:59 AM
Nope, I ment 2 calendar days of 10 hours /played per day. If you do grouping and XP items you get 50 in about 20 hours /played.

That is a pretty skewed view of leveling on Phoenix. First let me say that I'm not complaining about the leveling speed, but you are talking about the bottom end of an average where the samples go much higher. Not everybody knows all the secrets, not everybody is hardcore or can commit to long sessions to level quick. When I came back and made a Blademaster, I hadn't played DAoC in at least 10 years, and never past 10 in Hibernia. I got some groups, and did some soloing, but I was still in my 20's when I hit 20 hours. I didn't even know about the XP items until my mid 20's.

Now, I started my Warden after the Phoenix Egg changes, and that helped a lot, but when you are solo, things slow down a lot. I have grouped a bit, but have been mostly solo on this toon. Since I've been RvR'ing a bunch, my /played doesn't represent leveling time properly anymore. But you have to remember that getting the best XP items for your level is much harder to do solo. The last last few levels (37, 38) the items I turned in were barely giving half a bubble per item, and that was for the best items I had at the time, not all even gave that much. The kill tasks give like 3/4's of a bubble, and killing yellows and oranges is slow but better than nothing. Phoenix Eggs are nearly useless at this point, even after the increase.

So yes, some people will hit 50 in around 20 hours played, but not all, and I'd be surprised if it was most. But that doesn't matter in the long run, it only matters if people are having fun. I've got somewhere between 80 to 100 hours into Phoenix so far, and that got me a 39 Warden with 20k RPs, a 31 BM, and an 8 Animist. Who knows how long it will take me to hit 50, and get a template. I only care that I'm advancing and it's not a slog at this pace.

I don't know or have any way of finding out how much time /played it takes Every Player to get to 50 or templated but, The Phoenix staff Don't keep many things secret. Even if you didnt play Alpha or Beta here and perfect a leveling strategy, the Wiki tells ALL. Did you not bother to read the Wiki?

Tue 12 Feb 2019 3:43 PM by PingGuy

Mac wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 12:26 PM
Uthgard/s staff confuses tedious with challenging IMO. No one wants to farm the same dang mobs for weeks prior to starting to RvR. IMO, Phoenix has done the leveling time needed to become ready for RvR just about right, HOWEVER, they kept that easy mode approach to RvR too and that's a mistake. I think most players, even those who are very casual would like to think that their efforts in RvR are rewarded because they've overcame a challenging game. That's my worry, that people wont stay for more than a few weeks in easy mode DAoC.

I'm not stalking you, I just feel like the points you are making are ones I want to respond to.

Anyway, I underlined the part that I think needs a response. I'm guessing you are pretty good at this game, and PvP/RvR in general, because that's the kind of thing that a generally successful player would say. I have no allusions of overcoming a challenging game. I suck at PvP in most games, but I do still like to PvP in games where a casual can have a shot. What you call "easy mode," I call "accessible." Literally, as long as I can go out there and try to make a difference, win or lose, that has the potential to be fun. Winning can be fun in itself, but if you rely on winning for fun, and you aren't very good, then it doesn't end up being very fun.

I do think your concern is real, that there will be people who won't stay more than a few weeks because this isn't full on hardcore player skill dependent PvP. But you have to balance that with the players who would never have stayed after their first RvR experience, because it was completely devoid of success. Maybe they will try more than once, but if the result always comes up as failure with no advancement, that will get old quick.

This server needs high skill 8-mans, it needs low skill 8-mans, it needs solos, smallman, and yes, the zerg. So how do we keep everybody happy? We need to make sure everybody has something to do that is fun, without negatively impacting the fun of other styles of play too much. We have to accept some compromises. Just like the zerg is going to trample me when I'm solo, it's probably going to trample your high skill 8-man. That's the cost of coexisting.

Sometimes I get frustrated because I've run a long way with sub-optimal speed, and get killed by a stealther or fg that I had the bad luck to run into. But that is balanced out by the times I catch a stealther trying to gank somebody else and we take them down together. Or like last night, while trying to Dominate Breifine, I just got into the area and a fg saw me and chased me down. While they were distracted, killing my lowbie butt, another group of Hibs rolled up and killed them, rez'd me, and moved on. I died shortly after, fighting over a capture point, but such is the nature of working the tasks.

There is no single playstyle paradise, highly competitive environments will run out of highly competitive players, zerg environments will will get repetitive and boring. We need options that can exist together, so people can find their fun.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 3:50 PM by PingGuy

Mac wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 3:30 PM
I don't know or have any way of finding out how much time /played it takes Every Player to get to 50 or templated but, The Phoenix staff Don't keep many things secret. Even if you didnt play Alpha or Beta here and perfect a leveling strategy, the Wiki tells ALL. Did you not bother to read the Wiki?

This wasn't even on my radar two days before release. A reddit post popped up in my Google News Feed, I read it and it sounded fun. I read the rules, then I made a character on the first Saturday. I didn't even know about ROG's until long after I was using them. Not even sure if I realized there was a wiki until a few days in. I found out about the XP items from a post in the Hibernia section of the forums.

There have been a few threads around here about leveling and the speed of it, so I was aware of some other's experiences from reading those. No worries, I was just sharing my experience and what i have heard from others.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 3:52 PM by Mac

PingGuy wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 3:43 PM
Mac wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 12:26 PM
Uthgard/s staff confuses tedious with challenging IMO. No one wants to farm the same dang mobs for weeks prior to starting to RvR. IMO, Phoenix has done the leveling time needed to become ready for RvR just about right, HOWEVER, they kept that easy mode approach to RvR too and that's a mistake. I think most players, even those who are very casual would like to think that their efforts in RvR are rewarded because they've overcame a challenging game. That's my worry, that people wont stay for more than a few weeks in easy mode DAoC.

I'm not stalking you, I just feel like the points you are making are ones I want to respond to.

Anyway, I underlined the part that I think needs a response. I'm guessing you are pretty good at this game, and PvP/RvR in general, because that's the kind of thing that a generally successful player would say. I have no allusions of overcoming a challenging game. I suck at PvP in most games, but I do still like to PvP in games where a casual can have a shot. What you call "easy mode," I call "accessible." Literally, as long as I can go out there and try to make a difference, win or lose, that has the potential to be fun. Winning can be fun in itself, but if you rely on winning for fun, and you aren't very good, then it doesn't end up being very fun.

I do think your concern is real, that there will be people who won't stay more than a few weeks because this isn't full on hardcore player skill dependent PvP. But you have to balance that with the players who would never have stayed after their first RvR experience, because it was completely devoid of success. Maybe they will try more than once, but if the result always comes up as failure with no advancement, that will get old quick.

This server needs high skill 8-mans, it needs low skill 8-mans, it needs solos, smallman, and yes, the zerg. So how do we keep everybody happy? We need to make sure everybody has something to do that is fun, without negatively impacting the fun of other styles of play too much. We have to accept some compromises. Just like the zerg is going to trample me when I'm solo, it's probably going to trample your high skill 8-man. That's the cost of coexisting.

Sometimes I get frustrated because I've run a long way with sub-optimal speed, and get killed by a stealther or fg that I had the bad luck to run into. But that is balanced out by the times I catch a stealther trying to gank somebody else and we take them down together. Or like last night, while trying to Dominate Breifine, I just got into the area and a fg saw me and chased me down. While they were distracted, killing my lowbie butt, another group of Hibs rolled up and killed them, rez'd me, and moved on. I died shortly after, fighting over a capture point, but such is the nature of working the tasks.

There is no single playstyle paradise, highly competitive environments will run out of highly competitive players, zerg environments will will get repetitive and boring. We need options that can exist together, so people can find their fun.

I agree that the game needs to provide options to all play styles, solo, small man, 8 man, zerg etc. Even to those who prefer PvE over RvR. However, for the long term good of the game all of thos options should be challenging, IMO. BTW, I'm not an 8Vs8 player. I belong to a zerg guild.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 4:11 PM by PingGuy

Mac wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 3:52 PM
I agree that the game needs to provide options to all play styles, solo, small man, 8 man, zerg etc. Even to those who prefer PvE over RvR. However, for the long term good of the game all of thos options should be challenging, IMO. BTW, I'm not an 8Vs8 player. I belong to a zerg guild.

That's good to know. I aspire to also someday be in a zerg guild, but right now my situational awareness capabilities are such that I don't generally get around to reading chat windows until I'm face down in the dirt. Although voice chat probably helps with that, but I haven't gotten on the Discord train yet.

So let me ask two questions:

#1 What would be an appropriate challenge for a zerg, where accomplishing it would feel like more than just participation?

#2 If the rewards should come from overcoming challenges, how would you ensure that it isn't always only the highest skilled people that get the rewards?

I really don't know how to challenge a zerg, other than just fighting another zerg, but I have very little DAoC experience. I did a good amount of PvP in EVE Online, and even zerging, but that was before time-dilation, so the zerg there was painful and frustrating. As far as tuning rewards, I really have no idea. I only know that everybody needs a chance for a reward, and I mean a realistic chance, not a "well if you didn't suck at PvP you would have a chance..."

I'm old and slow, I mean not real old, but as far as gaming reactions go, I'm a dinosaur. I think i was about 30 the first time somebody's teenage kid whooped every adult at the LAN party in a First Person Shooter. Now, I got 2nd place to that teenager, so I guess that's something, but that was like 13 years ago. As a person who won't be topping the killboards, I need a way to feel rewarded, without those who are actually at the top feeling cheated by that.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 4:41 PM by Zansobar

PingGuy wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 4:11 PM
Mac wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 3:52 PM
I agree that the game needs to provide options to all play styles, solo, small man, 8 man, zerg etc. Even to those who prefer PvE over RvR. However, for the long term good of the game all of thos options should be challenging, IMO. BTW, I'm not an 8Vs8 player. I belong to a zerg guild.

That's good to know. I aspire to also someday be in a zerg guild, but right now my situational awareness capabilities are such that I don't generally get around to reading chat windows until I'm face down in the dirt. Although voice chat probably helps with that, but I haven't gotten on the Discord train yet.

So let me ask two questions:

#1 What would be an appropriate challenge for a zerg, where accomplishing it would feel like more than just participation?

#2 If the rewards should come from overcoming challenges, how would you ensure that it isn't always only the highest skilled people that get the rewards?

I really don't know how to challenge a zerg, other than just fighting another zerg, but I have very little DAoC experience. I did a good amount of PvP in EVE Online, and even zerging, but that was before time-dilation, so the zerg there was painful and frustrating. As far as tuning rewards, I really have no idea. I only know that everybody needs a chance for a reward, and I mean a realistic chance, not a "well if you didn't suck at PvP you would have a chance..."

I'm old and slow, I mean not real old, but as far as gaming reactions go, I'm a dinosaur. I think i was about 30 the first time somebody's teenage kid whooped every adult at the LAN party in a First Person Shooter. Now, I got 2nd place to that teenager, so I guess that's something, but that was like 13 years ago. As a person who won't be topping the killboards, I need a way to feel rewarded, without those who are actually at the top feeling cheated by that.

The way I look at it is zerg is warfare, every army in every battle in history could be considered a zerg. The way you feel accomplishment in this warfare is if your side takes keeps or pushes back the enemy (routs them) etc. Personally you will get RPs for progression but your reward is more about defeating the enemy of your realm and gaining things on a realm wide scale.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 4:52 PM by Mac

PingGuy wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 4:11 PM
Mac wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 3:52 PM
I agree that the game needs to provide options to all play styles, solo, small man, 8 man, zerg etc. Even to those who prefer PvE over RvR. However, for the long term good of the game all of thos options should be challenging, IMO. BTW, I'm not an 8Vs8 player. I belong to a zerg guild.

That's good to know. I aspire to also someday be in a zerg guild, but right now my situational awareness capabilities are such that I don't generally get around to reading chat windows until I'm face down in the dirt. Although voice chat probably helps with that, but I haven't gotten on the Discord train yet.

So let me ask two questions:

#1 What would be an appropriate challenge for a zerg, where accomplishing it would feel like more than just participation?

#2 If the rewards should come from overcoming challenges, how would you ensure that it isn't always only the highest skilled people that get the rewards?

I really don't know how to challenge a zerg, other than just fighting another zerg, but I have very little DAoC experience. I did a good amount of PvP in EVE Online, and even zerging, but that was before time-dilation, so the zerg there was painful and frustrating. As far as tuning rewards, I really have no idea. I only know that everybody needs a chance for a reward, and I mean a realistic chance, not a "well if you didn't suck at PvP you would have a chance..."

I'm old and slow, I mean not real old, but as far as gaming reactions go, I'm a dinosaur. I think i was about 30 the first time somebody's teenage kid whooped every adult at the LAN party in a First Person Shooter. Now, I got 2nd place to that teenager, so I guess that's something, but that was like 13 years ago. As a person who won't be topping the killboards, I need a way to feel rewarded, without those who are actually at the top feeling cheated by that.

Tactics makes zerging vs the enemy zerg fun. For example, if the's a 3 way fight in Emain between all 3 realms, you want to position your team so that you are NOT the meat in the sandwich. Stay back, take advantage of the terrain, wipe out one realm and then the next. It's almost impossible to play RvR well if your team isn't in voice comms! All don't need to talk but all need to listen. If you try to TYPE, "4 Full Groups of Albs INC North West", By the time it's typed yer dead.

In this game. player skill is important, so is a well geared and speced character but even more important, IMO, are good voice comms.

Thu 14 Feb 2019 6:16 PM by Frug

Karqa wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Feb 2019 6:01 AM
Whn Uthgard 2 server released, It has 3-4k people playin in its first week but in a month It has 1-1,5k players. After 3 months, under 1k. Now It has 20-50 players. Ithink you shouldn't compare the servers so far. We dont have arrogant DEVs or gms, players are positive, ıts a casual friendly game here. They are all my opinion. ı also played in uthgard more than 4 years.

Ty for reading.

Factually untrue. Not a single day since Phoenix started has Uthgard gotten below 60 players @ peak. There are TIMES it's lower, (the minimum is in the 20's).

For the past 30 days, the hour with the minimum "average population" is 11PM (eastern) to 1AM (eastern), with 37-40 players.

Thu 14 Feb 2019 7:46 PM by cuuchulain79

Karqa wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Feb 2019 6:01 AM
Whn Uthgard 2 server released, It has 3-4k people playin in its first week but in a month It has 1-1,5k players. After 3 months, under 1k. Now It has 20-50 players. Ithink you shouldn't compare the servers so far. We dont have arrogant DEVs or gms, players are positive, ıts a casual friendly game here. They are all my opinion. ı also played in uthgard more than 4 years.

Ty for reading.

You know, you don't need to make up numbers or spread false "information." https://unixgeek.com/uthgard.html

When you say a month after release, it was "1-1.5k" it was actually still peaking over 3500.

When you say after 3 months "under 1k" it was actually still peaking around 2700.

Also, (regarding uth staff being arrogant) they did actually bother to defend their decisions...in fact they're pretty guilty of feeding their forum trolls.

The boards here aren't really having any tough conversations (why is the server the way it is?), because you don't really have those conversations when population is booming....everybody just assumes things are working fine.

Thu 14 Feb 2019 8:57 PM by Truen

Karqa wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Feb 2019 6:01 AM
The boards here aren't really having any tough conversations (why is the server the way it is?), because you don't really have those conversations when population is booming....everybody just assumes things are working fine.

Or, those 'conversations' aren't necessary because people largely are enjoying the server and their time that's being spent here? If you have suggestions for changes, there's a forum for that. Otherwise, enjoy the game and have fun.

Thu 14 Feb 2019 9:45 PM by cuuchulain79

Truen wrote: ↑
Thu 14 Feb 2019 8:57 PM
Karqa wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Feb 2019 6:01 AM
The boards here aren't really having any tough conversations (why is the server the way it is?), because you don't really have those conversations when population is booming....everybody just assumes things are working fine.

Or, those 'conversations' aren't necessary because people largely are enjoying the server and their time that's being spent here? If you have suggestions for changes, there's a forum for that. Otherwise, enjoy the game and have fun.

I'm enjoying playing here...I don't really have any suggestions...besides, they're probably not going to change anything while the population is booming...that was my point. The forums on Uthgard didn't really sour until 7-8months after release...and I hope Phoenix players can do something different from Uthgard players when population drops:

Accept that people get bored...and don't blame the staff. Modern video games spend tons of cash to keep populations growing...it's an industry...people research how to prevent boredom and keep people playing. This...is a freeshard custom server of a 20 year old MMO...eventually folks will get their fill of Camelot and some will move on...it's what happens to small private servers. And that's fine. The echoing toxicity of people who don't grasp that concept really trolled up Uthgard, blaming staff for everything under the sun. I'm guessing a lot of them are here now...I just hope they can align expectations to reality. The patch level might be 200(4?) but the real world certainly is infact 2019.

Fri 15 Feb 2019 11:21 AM by Patron

Thought too short.
Uthgard trollef themself. People tried for 2 years to save uth grom itself, me included. We lost the fight and Uthgards got finally what it deserve.
Its a tragedy, the player wanted more the succes then the staff.

And uth forum got sour and questionable statements from staff inc weeks before release.
Phoenix is not Uthgard, phoenix is from content a much higher league. Ofc uth has the better core software n stuff, but this not matter when content is foolish.

Wed 20 Feb 2019 4:09 PM by Sinno

Uthgard shot its ownself in the foot. Nobody wants to return to total grind. I never made 50 on the Uth reboot and that's because I don't have that kind of time to just grind out a toon so I can farm to create the toon I really want to grind him to 50 and ect, ect. Phoenix has some really interesting custom things going on. Kinda makes it our old game with a modern twist. I expect the population will hang quite well in the 2k range so long as they don't go super classic.