Which archer to pick ? - Phoenix Freeshard

Hi, any advice on which solo archer to pick ( with race and spec if poss ) , would mainly like to snipe from keeps but dont want to die in 3 secs to a steal ther when uncovered. Thanks.

Sun 28 Jul 2019 12:25 PM by kiectred

Vkejai wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jul 2019 12:19 PM
Hi, any advice on which solo archer to pick ( with race and spec if poss ) , would mainly like to snipe from keeps but dont want to die in 3 secs to a steal ther when uncovered. Thanks.

All assassins will kill you fast. But that said, anything but a scout.

Sun 28 Jul 2019 2:36 PM by Sindralor

Rangerrangerrangerrangerrangerrangerrangerrangerrangerrangerrangerrangerrangerrangerrang-

Sun 28 Jul 2019 3:31 PM by Hejjin

I believe the order is Ranger, Hunter, and trailing a very distant third, Scout, but if you mostly want to be involved with keep sieges rather than soloing, then all three of them are viable.

Sun 28 Jul 2019 10:56 PM by Horus

Well the Ranger is interestingly two very separate builds.

If you spec for ranged damage, you are the weakest of the archer classes in terms of melee (you mentioned survivability against assassins).

If you spec for blade melee, you are arguably the best melee archer vs assassins but have negligible bow spec. There is no in between. Hybrid spec is not best of both worlds, more like the worst of both worlds.

If your goal is keep warfare with some surviability vs sneaks I would say the scout is your choice. Why? You can spec survivability with shield and not sacrifice bow spec. And I believe you have the longest range.

Sure you will still die to SBs and NSs but you may be able to survive long enough to have other realm mates help you in defense. And if purge is down on your opponent slam is awfully mighty for escaping.

I would just pick what realm you prefer and go that way for your choice. Prob makes more diff than the specific archer classes.

Sun 28 Jul 2019 11:01 PM by Vkejai

Thanks for the replies .

Sun 28 Jul 2019 11:08 PM by Cadebrennus

The "Ranger is better than Hunter in melee" thing is a myth. Hunters have much better damage output in melee Rangers in melee, but Rangers aren't far behind. So tired of seeing the misinformation parroted over and over again.

Sun 28 Jul 2019 11:52 PM by Campjr

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jul 2019 11:08 PM
The "Ranger is better than Hunter in melee" thing is a myth. Hunters have much better damage output in melee Rangers in melee, but Rangers aren't far behind. So tired of seeing the misinformation parroted over and over again.

But it isn’t a myth...

Mon 29 Jul 2019 12:20 AM by Vkejai

I guess I'm looking for a bit of both , but mainly sniping , with a good defense against assassins.

Mon 29 Jul 2019 6:12 AM by inoeth

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jul 2019 11:08 PM
The "Ranger is better than Hunter in melee" thing is a myth. Hunters have much better damage output in melee Rangers in melee, but Rangers aren't far behind. So tired of seeing the misinformation parroted over and over again.

"much better" is a myth.. if you take dex/quick+asr debuffs into account the dmg output of hunter is reduced by alot! still its not insta win for rangers that being said.
but psssst

to all rangers: please spec thrust/bow ;D

Mon 29 Jul 2019 7:29 AM by Druth

I've never died to hunters, and rarely to scouts, so assume rangers are best.
Could partly be because I play exclusive Midgard though...

Wed 31 Jul 2019 2:09 AM by Niget

I would say if you want to be hybrid, Hunter all the way.
Hybrid ranger is pretty difficult while specing in 2 melee lines.
Best spec I found is 30 stealth 39 blades 29 CD 42 PF and 27 archery.
I bet having those 29 levels of CD into something else would help a ton. And 2h plus pet.

Wed 31 Jul 2019 9:38 PM by Vkejai

Thanks guys, gonna try to have a crack at them all and see.

Wed 31 Jul 2019 10:22 PM by Aidereh

Could we get a few archers, with 50 in archery, from each realm to post their damage on a lvl 50 training dummy?
Crit shot, normal shot, volley

This may make the choice easier.

I had a hunter, bow damage is very low. I wanted an Archer...the hunter is not it. It was so bad I deleted.

I had a ranger, on live in 2002-3. They did good bow damage.

I am almost ready to make a scout to test. I've ask a few scout how's bow damage, they didn't give me a number, but they did ask me to stay in Alb.

Hope this helps,

A

Wed 31 Jul 2019 10:35 PM by Leandrys

Ranger will hit for 10% more damages (and also add damage), that's all, do not wait for magical OS of targets, it doesn't happen here except on dummies who forget their self buffs and no-temp'ed played.

ANd if you ,really want to go all in with bow, pick lurikeen, 15 dext rest consti or STR, or even 18 dext at creation, grab the last DQ self buff at low RR, 2x5.5 speed 100% qual bow, one with dot proc and the other one with DD proc, totall forget about melee, never let someone get any close to you, abuse volley at it allows to do, grab long shot, get high Falcon Eye lvl and a bit of aug dext, two points in mastery of the arcane, that's all you can do for bow's damages.

And you'll still have less DPS than any decent caster 2L, no matters your RR, but you're stealth, compensates a lot, be a bastard tho, there's no way else to play bow on Phoenix.

Thu 1 Aug 2019 9:17 PM by Hejjin

Aidereh wrote: ↑
Wed 31 Jul 2019 10:22 PM
Could we get a few archers, with 50 in archery, from each realm to post their damage on a lvl 50 training dummy?
Crit shot, normal shot, volley

(unbuffed) RR5.5 Scout using a 100% qual 5.5 speed Bow :
Max Citshot (50 Bow)
You shoot Training Dummy Level 5 with your shimmering duskwood heavy long bow and hit for 1057 (-67) damage! (Damage Modifier: 3000)
You shoot Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering duskwood heavy long bow and hit for 455 (-159) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1295)

Max Citshot (35 Bow)
You shoot Training Dummy Level 5 with your shimmering duskwood heavy long bow and hit for 1002 (-30) damage! (Damage Modifier: 3000)
You shoot Training Dummy Level 50 with your shimmering duskwood heavy long bow and hit for 425 (-149) damage! (Damage Modifier: 1278)

Aidereh wrote: ↑
Wed 31 Jul 2019 10:22 PM
This may make the choice easier.

I had a hunter, bow damage is very low. I wanted an Archer...the hunter is not it. It was so bad I deleted.

I had a ranger, on live in 2002-3. They did good bow damage.

I am almost ready to make a scout to test. I've ask a few scout how's bow damage, they didn't give me a number, but they did ask me to stay in Alb.

Hope this helps,

A

Don't go choosing your archer based off Bow damage, there is very little difference between the performance of all the archers where Bow damage is concerned. I prefer Hunter over Ranger, partly for nostalgia as I had one that resided in the BG's back in the day, also because I like spear and the fact there are less spec lines to worry about than Rangers not to mention the Hunter pet, since the buff to Hunter pets, they do decent damage.

Fri 2 Aug 2019 1:22 AM by Aidereh

As you can all read the above. I will simply leave you with a quote.

"archery is the most powerful ranged attack in the game." -Prima's Official Strategy Guide, copyright 2001, page 42, Scout section

Sounds like someone changed archery damage from the original game.

Thanks for the replies. It has made my decision very simple...find a different game, if you want to be an actual archer.

Fri 2 Aug 2019 7:14 AM by Hejjin

Aidereh wrote: ↑
Fri 2 Aug 2019 1:22 AM
As you can all read the above. I will simply leave you with a quote.

"archery is the most powerful ranged attack in the game." -Prima's Official Strategy Guide, copyright 2001, page 42, Scout section

Sounds like someone changed archery damage from the original game.

Thanks for the replies. It has made my decision very simple...find a different game, if you want to be an actual archer.

Hmmm

Normally I would say that statement says less about Archery than it does about the accuracy of the Prima Official Guides, but even on here, archers can be very powerful ranged attackers, especially if our critshot hits for maximum damage, or close to it.

The above being said, the Prima guides were always poor, I remember following the Prima Guide's advice on how to spend my creation points on my Cleric in Everquest in April 1999, what a waste of points...

Fri 2 Aug 2019 9:59 AM by Tiberian1986

Got a ranger and hunter. Both work good. Ranger does more bow dmg because of dmgadd and slower bow and dex/quick which is in most case higher specced than hunter beast dex/quick.
Hunter is nice because when my ranger snipes a caster then I need purge in most cases because quickcast mezz but hunters pet is even able to kill a caster solo if he used quickcast for the hunter. When my hunter was 48lvl i killed a rr6 theurg because he mezzt me and tried to run back to keep with my hunterpet. Hunterpet runs faster than endurun so with arround 6 hits (a 100dmg per hits on caster) he died (did with bow arround 2x 300 before).
When you camp harbors maybe hunter works better, if u camp in a keep than ranger because superior bow dmg.

Fri 2 Aug 2019 1:27 PM by Sleepwell

Ranger damage add works for bow damage? Honestly just asking. I wanted to say the delve says melee damage.

Fri 2 Aug 2019 4:21 PM by Vkejai

Got each to lvl 24, really hard to pick one as I like them all for various reasons. Looks like I will have to play a bit more on them.

Sat 3 Aug 2019 3:17 AM by Cadebrennus

Vkejai wrote: ↑
Fri 2 Aug 2019 4:21 PM
Got each to lvl 24, really hard to pick one as I like them all for various reasons. Looks like I will have to play a bit more on them.

Positives for Ranger/Hunter have been post ad nauseam (true or not). However there has been little positive said about Scouts (mostly due to the players who spec/play poorly).

That being said, what are your thoughts on the positives of the Scout thus far?

Sat 3 Aug 2019 3:17 AM by Cadebrennus

Vkejai wrote: ↑
Fri 2 Aug 2019 4:21 PM
Got each to lvl 24, really hard to pick one as I like them all for various reasons. Looks like I will have to play a bit more on them.

Positives for Ranger/Hunter have been post ad nauseam (true or not). However there has been little positive said about Scouts (mostly due to the players who spec/play poorly).

That being said, what are your thoughts on the positives of the Scout thus far?

Sat 3 Aug 2019 3:32 AM by Vkejai

Honestly scouts my favourite so far , melee is kinda low compared to Ranger and Hunter but I like the shield, just need to play differently. Still got a way to go yet tho , I think I may even get all 3 to lvl 50 . He currently lvl 34.

Sat 3 Aug 2019 10:01 AM by Turano

what nobody mentioned yet is that hunters have way easier targets to kill.
All hib casters are easy pickings while bd's and sm's are borderline unkillable

Sun 4 Aug 2019 1:50 PM by labova

You may want to think a bit wider than just "which archer to pick". Which realm do you like the best? Are you prepared to roll an animist to deal with the hib economy?

Sun 4 Aug 2019 4:31 PM by Vkejai

labova wrote: ↑
Sun 4 Aug 2019 1:50 PM
You may want to think a bit wider than just "which archer to pick". Which realm do you like the best? Are you prepared to roll an animist to deal with the hib economy?

I play all 3 realms , dont have money issues thankfully.

Sun 4 Aug 2019 5:03 PM by labova

That renders my comment a bit moot. The scout has an advantage with grouping with minstrels in a stealth setting though, and if stealth groups are your thing, you may want to consider that.

For pure soloing I'd pick a ranger or a hunter. For my part I play a hunter here, though only to a modest RR (4L4). I use it as a class for soloing. The buff to the pet helped significantly. It does more damage, and is a lot faster.

Back in the day, I played a Ranger to RR7+. I find it simpler to play than the hunter, but the pet adds a certain degree of utility that the ranger cannot match.

Finally, don't overlook the fun factor. If you find one of the archers the most fun, you might want to stick with that. There is very little that beats motivation.

Mon 5 Aug 2019 2:51 PM by Horus

Sleepwell wrote: ↑
Fri 2 Aug 2019 1:27 PM
Ranger damage add works for bow damage? Honestly just asking. I wanted to say the delve says melee damage.

Bow is considered a melee attack...sorta

That is why SM pets intercept arrows and you get hit at 1500 range by armor defensive procs that are only supposed to be triggered by "melee" attacks.

And as someone mentioned earlier..you have to put a check by hunters because there are just so many more good targets. Alb and Hib are caster heavy.

I find it trickier picking out squishy mid targets.

Mon 5 Aug 2019 4:18 PM by Cadebrennus

Horus wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Aug 2019 2:51 PM
Sleepwell wrote: ↑
Fri 2 Aug 2019 1:27 PM
Ranger damage add works for bow damage? Honestly just asking. I wanted to say the delve says melee damage.

Bow is considered a melee attack...sorta

That is why SM pets intercept arrows and you get hit at 1500 range by armor defensive procs that are only supposed to be triggered by "melee" attacks.

And as someone mentioned earlier..you have to put a check by hunters because there are just so many more good targets. Alb and Hib are caster heavy.

I find it trickier picking out squishy mid targets.

Fairly accurate. Specifically classic Archery is a ranged unstyled 2-handed attack, making it arrow dependent for the To-Hit bonus (accuracy on the arrow delve, although it's been a while since I tested it so I don't remember the exact number.) It also happens to be on a different WS table than Stealther melee.

Mon 5 Aug 2019 5:20 PM by Sleepwell

Horus wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Aug 2019 2:51 PM
Sleepwell wrote: ↑
Fri 2 Aug 2019 1:27 PM
Ranger damage add works for bow damage? Honestly just asking. I wanted to say the delve says melee damage.

Bow is considered a melee attack...sorta

That is why SM pets intercept arrows and you get hit at 1500 range by armor defensive procs that are only supposed to be triggered by "melee" attacks.

And as someone mentioned earlier..you have to put a check by hunters because there are just so many more good targets. Alb and Hib are caster heavy.

I find it trickier picking out squishy mid targets.

So do all melee damage adds work for all archers ranged attacks?

Mon 5 Aug 2019 5:51 PM by Horus

Sleepwell wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Aug 2019 5:20 PM
Horus wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Aug 2019 2:51 PM
Sleepwell wrote: ↑
Fri 2 Aug 2019 1:27 PM
Ranger damage add works for bow damage? Honestly just asking. I wanted to say the delve says melee damage.

Bow is considered a melee attack...sorta

That is why SM pets intercept arrows and you get hit at 1500 range by armor defensive procs that are only supposed to be triggered by "melee" attacks.

And as someone mentioned earlier..you have to put a check by hunters because there are just so many more good targets. Alb and Hib are caster heavy.

I find it trickier picking out squishy mid targets.

So do all melee damage adds work for all archers ranged attacks?

Yes
Bow melee procs work as well...however I was never sure about DoT proc as the range listed on them is 300 (vs 1500 for DD procs).

Also note things that increase melee speed (haste, celerity, Mastery of Arms etc) do not affect fire rate.

Mon 5 Aug 2019 7:31 PM by Cadebrennus

Horus wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Aug 2019 5:51 PM
Sleepwell wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Aug 2019 5:20 PM
Horus wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Aug 2019 2:51 PM
Bow is considered a melee attack...sorta

That is why SM pets intercept arrows and you get hit at 1500 range by armor defensive procs that are only supposed to be triggered by "melee" attacks.

And as someone mentioned earlier..you have to put a check by hunters because there are just so many more good targets. Alb and Hib are caster heavy.

I find it trickier picking out squishy mid targets.

So do all melee damage adds work for all archers ranged attacks?

Yes
Bow melee procs work as well...however I was never sure about DoT proc as the range listed on them is 300 (vs 1500 for DD procs).

Also note things that increase melee speed (haste, celerity, Mastery of Arms etc) do not affect fire rate.

I can verify that DoT procs work on all bows (including short bows)

Fri 23 Aug 2019 11:40 PM by Makrist

I enjoy my Scout for what he is and i dont focus on what he isnt.

Stealth: good for positioning if you are smart (I sit at 35 stealth) or reporting movement. Poor for hunting assassins. They WILL see you first regardless of spec. It usually doesnt end well.

Bow: Worthless to spec past 35 (Rapidshot) in 99% of your encounters. The damage simply does not scale with the points invested. Rapidfire can be very valuable in siege and BG settings. I spend most of my grouped life interrupting healers, druids, shaman, and bards with 1.5 second low damage arrows. They dont die....but their realmmates do without heals. If you can preposition before an fight you can plink at them all day and keep them running.

Volley: Mandatory if you siege. Period. Learn how to use it intelligently and its devastating.

Melee: Amy slash for general purpose necessity...side slice for snare, kite, and escape. You will not win toe to toe melee against other melee classes (Rangers and Hunters included...most of the time). Just Dont.

Shield: slam for escape if needed and purge isnt up. Most of the time post RR5 it is and it becomes just another melee attack. In the right setting it can set you up for a crit shot with follow up shots to win a 1v1. Usually ruined by roaming groups or adds to the fight though. Primary uses outside of the "cross your fingers purge is down" experience is peeling in a BG setting. Irony is for that side slicer is usually best because of immunity timers and purge. So far on assassin engagements im 70% dead after a purged slam, 20% escape from the encounter but no kill, 10% kill due to slam stun.

Classes to avoid solo: SM with 80% intercept pets. Bonedancers with healing pets and lifetap instas. Enchanter pets can solo you by themselves. Shield classes, assassins, most rangers and Hunters. Avoid shroom farms it isnt worth the /release just to kill an animist. Valewalkers are usually a death sentence.

Good luck.

Mon 26 Aug 2019 6:39 PM by chryso

labova wrote: ↑
Sun 4 Aug 2019 1:50 PM
You may want to think a bit wider than just "which archer to pick". Which realm do you like the best? Are you prepared to roll an animist to deal with the hib economy?

The quoted exchange rate for trading gold has lead me to believe that the hib economy is not as bad as advertised.

Tue 27 Aug 2019 6:34 AM by Sepplord

chryso wrote: ↑
Mon 26 Aug 2019 6:39 PM
labova wrote: ↑
Sun 4 Aug 2019 1:50 PM
You may want to think a bit wider than just "which archer to pick". Which realm do you like the best? Are you prepared to roll an animist to deal with the hib economy?

The quoted exchange rate for trading gold has lead me to believe that the hib economy is not as bad as advertised.

that depends...

if they only looked at the total amount of gold / item-sellvalue / etc... then the buying power would SEEMINGLY be the same.

But if for example feathers (the most important currency on this server together with gold) are very scarce in hibernia, but not taken into account then the conversion rate might not be a good indicator. Not saying that is the case, but i know that i am not taking the risk and trading gold to hibernia with that low conversion rate and the priceranges i get told from players who have been to hib