https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/740351012316905485/772206926103969803/ranger_danger_pt2.PNG
rofl
rofl
well this needs sorting
Started 31 Oct 2020
by
Tubby
in
RvR
Sat 31 Oct 2020 10:14 PM
by
Tubby
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/737607568335175731/771708743342751764/unknown.png
another brilliant image showing a obvious issue.
another brilliant image showing a obvious issue.
Sat 31 Oct 2020 10:25 PM
by
Kwall0311
Unfortunately they announced no more changes. So what you posted is sadly the future of the phoenix server. More and more people logging out because of this nonsense.
Sat 31 Oct 2020 11:00 PM
by
swap89
is here the new forum of Dark age of ranger?...i ask for a friend
Sat 31 Oct 2020 11:15 PM
by
Nidd
Kwall0311 wrote: ↑Sat 31 Oct 2020 10:25 PMUnfortunately they announced no more changes. So what you posted is sadly the future of the phoenix server. More and more people logging out because of this nonsense.
what's nonsense? we roll a guild group. don't know the daoc rules, no rangers allowed in 8 man setup.
getting sick of all the qq ranger moans.
you will still moan when we got 6 void elds soon.
Sat 31 Oct 2020 11:18 PM
by
kmaschek
I stopped playing a week ago. As Cleric player getting instantly dropped from 100% to 0% is simply not fun for me, so i rather play other stuff.
But i get a new pc next week and so far i have no intentions of reinstalling the game anymore.
I will check occasionally for changes...
But i get a new pc next week and so far i have no intentions of reinstalling the game anymore.
I will check occasionally for changes...
Sat 31 Oct 2020 11:37 PM
by
Nidd
kmaschek wrote: ↑Sat 31 Oct 2020 11:18 PMI stopped playing a week ago. As Cleric player getting instantly dropped from 100% to 0% is simply not fun for me, so i rather play other stuff.
But i get a new pc next week and so far i have no intentions of reinstalling the game anymore.
I will check occasionally for changes...
That happens on any good daoc assist trains, we didn't quit with 30 earth wizzys gt aoe assisting in lord room. we didn't quit when they boosted HP, we got even
Sat 31 Oct 2020 11:39 PM
by
Kwall0311
Nidd wrote: ↑Sat 31 Oct 2020 11:15 PMwhat's nonsense? we roll a guild group. don't know the daoc rules, no rangers allowed in 8 man setup.
Nobody said you are doing anything wrong. I just dont think they understood the full potential/impact that the archery change could have with so many archers assisting with the insane damage . Add that to the natural small target of lurikeens, 2500 range from keeps and extremely hard to see, especially stacked. Terrible LOS and even the windows are almost impossible to target back unless counter archer or a good GTAOE. Its f*****g cheese and you know it. Dont pretend it isnt.
But again, nobody said what they are doing is wrong. Its just broken as f***. Keep doing your thing. I just simply said it isnt fun to play against anymore, and people to continue to just not put up with it by not logging in.
Call it complaining, i dont care. At the end of the day its a game and it is what it is, but just keep an eye on the population.
Sat 31 Oct 2020 11:48 PM
by
Nidd
I have its more even now, albs with 2 added relic's 100+ players more than hib, now we got them server pop is the same on alb and hib.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:23 AM
by
Astaa
Thanks for the relic, Polemoan. So good of you to fetch it out the keep for us.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:41 AM
by
Tubby
Tubby wrote: ↑Sat 31 Oct 2020 10:14 PMhttps://media.discordapp.net/attachments/737607568335175731/771708743342751764/unknown.png
another brilliant image showing a obvious issue.
can we take this into consideration 50% of hibs RvR at this time is stealthed. invisible.... cant see them at all until boom 1k dmg or PA lol. embarrasing for your realm really lol.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 8:28 AM
by
Astaa
As opposed to 100s of GTAOE and pet abusers, you mean? They would be more effective if your casters waited for the support, instead of sprinting into bow range. We can't do much about /assist and there is no reason Albs can't /assist too.
Or to say it another way, Hib bring the tools for the job!
You know, Albs could lock down the ranger defence pretty easily with all the GTAOE, near sites, extra wall climbers etc but they wilfully chose not to. You just need better instruction from your BG leader.
Or to say it another way, Hib bring the tools for the job!
You know, Albs could lock down the ranger defence pretty easily with all the GTAOE, near sites, extra wall climbers etc but they wilfully chose not to. You just need better instruction from your BG leader.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 9:49 AM
by
Estrema
alb have scout but they are so pro to go with polemo bg, they like camper dock in a full party stealth with misn for speed 
Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:20 AM
by
Forlornhope
RANGER FANBOIS ASSEMBLE!!
Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:23 AM
by
Forlornhope
All joking aside, stealth groups are trash and should be treated as such. Tossed out.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:35 AM
by
Astaa
But small man or fg visi outnumbering smaller numbers are just fine...right? 
Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:59 AM
by
swap89
1 fg ranger cant stop a 100+ zsrg...can only slow them and kill some...stop...like all good grp can do inside a keep...ganpunssa grp do,flump grp do,cerou grp do,hoinz grp do...
1 fg cant stop the zerg,need always help from the bg...and i repait the ranger only slow the attacker for give time to the defender...
so stop talk this shit...
u prefer play 100k minstrel,we play ranger...start play scout and build grp in assist perfect coordinate like our and u can do the same.
1 fg cant stop the zerg,need always help from the bg...and i repait the ranger only slow the attacker for give time to the defender...
so stop talk this shit...
u prefer play 100k minstrel,we play ranger...start play scout and build grp in assist perfect coordinate like our and u can do the same.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 11:12 AM
by
Tubby
swap89 wrote: ↑Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:59 AM1 fg ranger cant stop a 100+ zsrg...can only slow them and kill some...stop...like all good grp can do inside a keep...ganpunssa grp do,flump grp do,cerou grp do,hoinz grp do...
1 fg cant stop the zerg,need always help from the bg...and i repait the ranger only slow the attacker for give time to the defender...
so stop talk this shit...
u prefer play 100k minstrel,we play ranger...start play scout and build grp in assist perfect coordinate like our and u can do the same.
All you are doing is proving to me that everything is so wrong currently. If you think out of 110 hibs in rvr 50% should be invisible before they start attacking your just helping the fact that everything is wrong at this time on this server. If a dev came onto one of these posts and said we are doing nothing about it I would honestly just go. The fact is they are not because I think they are addressing the issue once they get bored with playing them lol
Sun 1 Nov 2020 11:20 AM
by
Forlornhope
Astaa wrote: ↑Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:35 AMBut small man or fg visi outnumbering smaller numbers are just fine...right?
Nope fgs/smalls who farm smaller numbers all day are also trash. But, you can actually see those groups and avoid them if you have speed six. Stop trying to defend this cheesy ass play style, congrats you can insta kill solos/duos all day. We're so proud of you lol.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 11:29 AM
by
swap89
Tubby wrote: ↑Sun 1 Nov 2020 11:12 AMswap89 wrote: ↑Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:59 AM1 fg ranger cant stop a 100+ zsrg...can only slow them and kill some...stop...like all good grp can do inside a keep...ganpunssa grp do,flump grp do,cerou grp do,hoinz grp do...
1 fg cant stop the zerg,need always help from the bg...and i repait the ranger only slow the attacker for give time to the defender...
so stop talk this shit...
u prefer play 100k minstrel,we play ranger...start play scout and build grp in assist perfect coordinate like our and u can do the same.
All you are doing is proving to me that everything is so wrong currently. If you think out of 110 hibs in rvr 50% should be invisible before they start attacking your just helping the fact that everything is wrong at this time on this server. If a dev came onto one of these posts and said we are doing nothing about it I would honestly just go. The fact is they are not because I think they are addressing the issue once they get bored with playing them lol
u base ur things on 1 screen...now 140 hibs 36 stealth...so u can see in not always the same...stop whining
Sun 1 Nov 2020 11:30 AM
by
swap89
swap89 wrote: ↑Sun 1 Nov 2020 11:29 AMTubby wrote: ↑Sun 1 Nov 2020 11:12 AMswap89 wrote: ↑Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:59 AM1 fg ranger cant stop a 100+ zsrg...can only slow them and kill some...stop...like all good grp can do inside a keep...ganpunssa grp do,flump grp do,cerou grp do,hoinz grp do...
1 fg cant stop the zerg,need always help from the bg...and i repait the ranger only slow the attacker for give time to the defender...
so stop talk this shit...
u prefer play 100k minstrel,we play ranger...start play scout and build grp in assist perfect coordinate like our and u can do the same.
All you are doing is proving to me that everything is so wrong currently. If you think out of 110 hibs in rvr 50% should be invisible before they start attacking your just helping the fact that everything is wrong at this time on this server. If a dev came onto one of these posts and said we are doing nothing about it I would honestly just go. The fact is they are not because I think they are addressing the issue once they get bored with playing them lol
u base ur things on 1 screen...now 140 hibs 36 stealth...so u can see in not always the same...stop whining
26 albs 28 mids...u talking about NOTHING
Sun 1 Nov 2020 11:33 AM
by
Estrema
more people that rerolling hib from alb make animist, ranger or champ but when reach 50 plaly 1 day in rvr and when see that are not op like they think return to play necros or caba or mins, this is the real situation, people talk about things they really don't know about
Sun 1 Nov 2020 11:59 AM
by
Forlornhope
Tubby wrote: ↑Sun 1 Nov 2020 11:12 AMswap89 wrote: ↑Sun 1 Nov 2020 10:59 AM1 fg ranger cant stop a 100+ zsrg...can only slow them and kill some...stop...like all good grp can do inside a keep...ganpunssa grp do,flump grp do,cerou grp do,hoinz grp do...
1 fg cant stop the zerg,need always help from the bg...and i repait the ranger only slow the attacker for give time to the defender...
so stop talk this shit...
u prefer play 100k minstrel,we play ranger...start play scout and build grp in assist perfect coordinate like our and u can do the same.
All you are doing is proving to me that everything is so wrong currently. If you think out of 110 hibs in rvr 50% should be invisible before they start attacking your just helping the fact that everything is wrong at this time on this server. If a dev came onto one of these posts and said we are doing nothing about it I would honestly just go. The fact is they are not because I think they are addressing the issue once they get bored with playing them lol
Yup, I've stopped playing anything I solo on and will probably not even log on to any toons I group on until either they address the problem or until that magical day comes when the pop drops too much and they do whatever they're planning to do. If things keep going the way they are it will probably be much sooner rather than later.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:00 PM
by
Astaa
Don't get me wrong, (All!) archers are OP as anything in a siege or a pitched battle (As they should be) but there are simple ways to nullify them, which albs don't do.
It suits me down to the ground at the moment because I can work 12 hours a day and play ranger, or play something else/watch a film after work and still play ranger. I'm either defending or feeding intel to the BG, which suits me. I get some roleplayers from my own realm whining about it but camping keeps is about all I have time for in DAOC atm
It suits me down to the ground at the moment because I can work 12 hours a day and play ranger, or play something else/watch a film after work and still play ranger. I'm either defending or feeding intel to the BG, which suits me. I get some roleplayers from my own realm whining about it but camping keeps is about all I have time for in DAOC atm
Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:12 PM
by
Runental
Just don't attaclk relickeeps for a while and let em rott on their beloved relics. They'll get bored sooner or later.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:21 PM
by
Tashkent
Forlornhope wrote: ↑Sun 1 Nov 2020 11:59 AMYup, I've stopped playing anything I solo on and will probably not even log on to any toons I group on until either they address the problem or until that magical day comes when the pop drops too much and they do whatever they're planning to do. If things keep going the way they are it will probably be much sooner rather than later.
From what I gathered you're a hunter running solo. What I don't understand as a fellow hunter is, why are ranger groups the one thing that stops you from playing when there are millions of other situations on this server in where you are zerged down with no chance not involving a ranger?
Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:22 PM
by
Amorphium
strong stealthers = rvr sucks and game dies, it was the same on live
Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:26 PM
by
Forlornhope
Tashkent wrote: ↑Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:21 PMForlornhope wrote: ↑Sun 1 Nov 2020 11:59 AMYup, I've stopped playing anything I solo on and will probably not even log on to any toons I group on until either they address the problem or until that magical day comes when the pop drops too much and they do whatever they're planning to do. If things keep going the way they are it will probably be much sooner rather than later.
From what I gathered you're a hunter running solo. What I don't understand as a fellow hunter is, why are ranger groups the one thing that stops you from playing when there are millions of other situations on this server in where you are zerged down with no chance not involving a ranger?
Mostly because every time I play I have a few choices, I either run in the task zone where I get constantly killed by stealth groups (it's not just rangers) every time I find any sort of fight. Or I can roam in zones where I don't find anyone for long periods of time. Since I don't really have much time to play, doing the ladder is not really worth while at all. I guess I have an easier time avoiding fgs of visis than I do stealth groups for some reason. But when you play maybe an hour or two every few days, and every fight you find gets interrupted by 3+ bow classes instant killing you, that doesn't really encourage someone to log on.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:39 PM
by
Tashkent
Forlornhope wrote: ↑Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:26 PMTashkent wrote: ↑Sun 1 Nov 2020 12:21 PMForlornhope wrote: ↑Sun 1 Nov 2020 11:59 AMYup, I've stopped playing anything I solo on and will probably not even log on to any toons I group on until either they address the problem or until that magical day comes when the pop drops too much and they do whatever they're planning to do. If things keep going the way they are it will probably be much sooner rather than later.
From what I gathered you're a hunter running solo. What I don't understand as a fellow hunter is, why are ranger groups the one thing that stops you from playing when there are millions of other situations on this server in where you are zerged down with no chance not involving a ranger?
Mostly because every time I play I have a few choices, I either run in the task zone where I get constantly killed by stealth groups (it's not just rangers) every time I find any sort of fight. Or I can roam in zones where I don't find anyone for long periods of time. Since I don't really have much time to play, doing the ladder is not really worth while at all. I guess I have an easier time avoiding fgs of visis than I do stealth groups for some reason. But when you play maybe an hour or two every few days, and every fight you find gets interrupted by 3+ bow classes instant killing you, that doesn't really encourage someone to log on.
I can relate to that.
I was just asking since rangers are just one part of the rather frustrating experience and other things are pissing me off way more.
Sun 1 Nov 2020 11:15 PM
by
Tubby
Nidd wrote: ↑Sat 31 Oct 2020 11:15 PMKwall0311 wrote: ↑Sat 31 Oct 2020 10:25 PMUnfortunately they announced no more changes. So what you posted is sadly the future of the phoenix server. More and more people logging out because of this nonsense.
what's nonsense? we roll a guild group. don't know the daoc rules, no rangers allowed in 8 man setup.
getting sick of all the qq ranger moans.
you will still moan when we got 6 void elds soon.
https://forum.playphoenix.online/get-involved/planned-changes/27300-archery-adjustments-aompd-and-champions LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Mon 2 Nov 2020 9:20 AM
by
Nidd
Tubby wrote: ↑Sun 1 Nov 2020 11:15 PMNidd wrote: ↑Sat 31 Oct 2020 11:15 PMKwall0311 wrote: ↑Sat 31 Oct 2020 10:25 PMUnfortunately they announced no more changes. So what you posted is sadly the future of the phoenix server. More and more people logging out because of this nonsense.
what's nonsense? we roll a guild group. don't know the daoc rules, no rangers allowed in 8 man setup.
getting sick of all the qq ranger moans.
you will still moan when we got 6 void elds soon.
https://forum.playphoenix.online/get-involved/planned-changes/27300-archery-adjustments-aompd-and-champions LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
? whats wrong because you are unwilling to stop 1 group you run to daddy devs for a whole class nerf? pathetic and a self own.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 9:46 AM
by
MeatBicycle
Nidd wrote: ↑Mon 2 Nov 2020 9:20 AMTubby wrote: ↑Sun 1 Nov 2020 11:15 PMNidd wrote: ↑Sat 31 Oct 2020 11:15 PMKwall0311 wrote: ↑Sat 31 Oct 2020 10:25 PMUnfortunately they announced no more changes. So what you posted is sadly the future of the phoenix server. More and more people logging out because of this nonsense.
what's nonsense? we roll a guild group. don't know the daoc rules, no rangers allowed in 8 man setup.
getting sick of all the qq ranger moans.
you will still moan when we got 6 void elds soon.
https://forum.playphoenix.online/get-involved/planned-changes/27300-archery-adjustments-aompd-and-champions LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
? whats wrong because you are unwilling to stop 1 group you run to daddy devs for a whole class nerf? pathetic and a self own.
Nidd, don't get me wrong on that. I'm quite sure that you guys will have always an impact on the zerg fights cause you are a coordinated grp, but the impact of the ranger assist is/was just plain stupid and you know that. I really don't know why anybody defends that. It was a try to improve the solo-possibilities of archers but that didn't work. instead the community used that archery buff for massive damage in stealthgrps without the negative effect on stealth detection which made assassin grps quite rare.
Again: We all want to have fun on phoenix and therefore we need some balance in general. Lets see how the changes work and i'm pretty sure the devs will change it again if its too much or not enough.
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:20 AM
by
Sepplord
Probably true, but then it actually will be their fault.Nidd wrote: ↑Sat 31 Oct 2020 11:15 PMgetting sick of all the qq ranger moans.
you will still moan when we got 6 void elds soon.
Just assuming you are halfskilled and coordinated, which seems to be the case...
That kind of implicates though that you are completely aware of the cheese and no-counterplay of stealthed-archeryassist, so you should not be getting sick of it, you know what is happening
Mon 2 Nov 2020 12:08 PM
by
Nidd
the only counter play I have seen from other realm BG's is coming on the forum and moaning about us.
we know how you could stop us, but we leave that to you to workout. then again far easier to moan and get nerfed it seems.
maybe we should make an alb group for nerfs.... hmmm..
Mon 2 Nov 2020 1:33 PM
by
Sepplord
Nidd wrote: ↑Mon 2 Nov 2020 12:08 PM
the only counter play I have seen from other realm BG's is coming on the forum and moaning about us.
we know how you how could stop us, but we leave that to you to workout. then again far easier to moan and get nerfed it seems.
maybe we should make an alb group for nerfs.... hmmm..
There is no counter that is a reasonable effort against your efforts to set it up...
No GTAOE doesn'e counter, it is impossible to know where you are setting up, having 50% shieldchars in grp so everyone is guarded isn't reasonable effort
And i don't raid with the BGs, so i am not a victim of your group specifically...who knows, if you are noobs then there might be obvious counters that other noobs aren't figuring it out. If you aren't, as you claim (and i also assumed, up until you kept defending this instead of acknowledging the cheese), then there is no counter to your strat, you can simply be forced to adapt your positioning between insta-kills
Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:33 PM
by
Gildar
Nidd wrote: ↑Mon 2 Nov 2020 12:08 PM
the only counter play I have seen from other realm BG's is coming on the forum and moaning about us.
we know how you could stop us, but we leave that to you to workout. then again far easier to moan and get nerfed it seems.
maybe we should make an alb group for nerfs.... hmmm..
Nidds go Alb and put up a 6 scouts grp with minstrel and a cleric so we can see if scout dmg is nerfed like ranger damage.
Or i have another idea ... put up a 6 necros grp with minstrel and a cleric ...
... they work as intended ... no nerf possible ...
Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:52 PM
by
Nidd
Gildar wrote: ↑Mon 2 Nov 2020 10:33 PMNidd wrote: ↑Mon 2 Nov 2020 12:08 PM
the only counter play I have seen from other realm BG's is coming on the forum and moaning about us.
we know how you could stop us, but we leave that to you to workout. then again far easier to moan and get nerfed it seems.
maybe we should make an alb group for nerfs.... hmmm..
Nidds go Alb and put up a 6 scouts grp with minstrel and a cleric so we can see if scout dmg is nerfed like ranger damage.
Or i have another idea ... put up a 6 necros grp with minstrel and a cleric ...
7 minst 1 cleric....
sounds like a xxx film
Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:23 PM
by
easytoremember
The most obvious thing is remaining out of an archer's LOS. When they are inside ck vs a zerg this means the spots they can shoot from are limited to the balcony and the roof. Leaving the ck even via postern doors and shooting from a corner is suicide. The spots being limited is a dead give away for GTAoE locations which prevents them from stealthing or readying shots.Sepplord wrote: ↑Mon 2 Nov 2020 1:33 PMNidd wrote: ↑Mon 2 Nov 2020 12:08 PM
the only counter play I have seen from other realm BG's is coming on the forum and moaning about us.
we know how you how could stop us, but we leave that to you to workout. then again far easier to moan and get nerfed it seems.
maybe we should make an alb group for nerfs.... hmmm..
There is no counter that is a reasonable effort against your efforts to set it up...
No GTAOE doesn'e counter, it is impossible to know where you are setting up, having 50% shieldchars in grp so everyone is guarded isn't reasonable effort
And i don't raid with the BGs, so i am not a victim of your group specifically...who knows, if you are noobs then there might be obvious counters that other noobs aren't figuring it out. If you aren't, as you claim (and i also assumed, up until you kept defending this instead of acknowledging the cheese), then there is no counter to your strat, you can simply be forced to adapt your positioning between insta-kills
Outside the keep the same logic applies: their dropping off the wall is suicide, so they are limited to strictly the walls- which means hugging the wall breaks LOS from all locations except the immediate corner- which in itself is suicide because they are presenting themselves inside caster range, and climbers can quickly overwhelm them from the opposite side of CY
In the case of Volley, no LOS was necessary letting the archer truly stay outside of retaliation, but with regular archery you have the conditions of LOS and 2000 range- in addition to trying to select isolated targets where only the target is visible. If the archers are hitting one target, the rest are free to cast. If you're stupidly standing where the archer remains outside 1500 that's on you.
Tue 3 Nov 2020 6:44 AM
by
Sepplord
easytoremember wrote: ↑Mon 2 Nov 2020 11:23 PMThe most obvious thing is remaining out of an archer's LOS. When they are inside ck vs a zerg this means the spots they can shoot from are limited to the balcony and the roof. Leaving the ck even via postern doors and shooting from a corner is suicide. The spots being limited is a dead give away for GTAoE locations which prevents them from stealthing or readying shots.
Outside the keep the same logic applies: their dropping off the wall is suicide, so they are limited to strictly the walls- which means hugging the wall breaks LOS from all locations except the immediate corner- which in itself is suicide because they are presenting themselves inside caster range, and climbers can quickly overwhelm them from the opposite side of CY
In the case of Volley, no LOS was necessary letting the archer truly stay outside of retaliation, but with regular archery you have the conditions of LOS and 2000 range- in addition to trying to select isolated targets where only the target is visible. If the archers are hitting one target, the rest are free to cast. If you're stupidly standing where the archer remains outside 1500 that's on you.
To remain out of LOS you have to know where they are, being somewhere else than CK/balcony isn't instant death unless you are heavily outnumbered and all walls are covered by forces that can overwhelm 6supported archers. That's not appropriate balance. There is a discrepancy between effort of setting it up and countering it.
free to cast on what? the archer that popped up when he released his arrow and immediatly went out of LOS (assuming they weren't jump-shooting and OOL automatically). Yeah, no shit, the archers standing unstealthed shooting arrow after arrow get countered..."If the archers are hitting one target, the rest are free to cast."
If that's how you play archer assist i am starting to understand why so many compare yourself to casters, you aren't using your main benefit: stealth
Tue 3 Nov 2020 7:45 AM
by
easytoremember
Correct me if I'm wrong but if theyre all running off and restealthing after every kill, you people are whining about 1 kill every some 30 seconds in a zerg setting?Sepplord wrote: ↑Tue 3 Nov 2020 6:44 AMYeah, no shit, the archers standing unstealthed shooting arrow after arrow get countered...
If that's how you play archer assist i am starting to understand why so many compare yourself to casters, you aren't using your main benefit: stealth
Their being hidden also does not change that the locations they can shoot from are entirely dependent upon the target's position
Tue 3 Nov 2020 12:58 PM
by
Sepplord
i'm not whining about that at all, i am explaining how being oneshot from stealth with no counterplay is an exploitable mechanic and i agree that it needs to be changed.
It doesn't matter if it has no impact on a macro scale of a fight. "no counterplay" is the epitome of unfun game mechanics and even if it was balanced (and i am not saying it is) it can still be bad game design that needs adjustment.
This isn't an RTS but individual players playing a game and just being killed out of nowhere without any precursor is an issue.
I doubt a dmg nerf, even a substantial one like this will change much about player behaviour...but it will at least reduce the amount of groups/targets by requiring more archers on one target to execute the cheese. I feel for the few solo archers though
Seriously, i really don't believe that all of you are defending assist-archery from stealth is anything but cheese. I played an archer, i have killed unsuspecting people before their healer reacted. I know the evil giggle when you have a buddy with you and your target dies without much of a chance. I also always had a voice in the back of my head saying stuff like "lol if we were more than 2archers we could make people ragequit, because there is literally nothing they can do besides just dieing or leaving".
Swallow your bias, being instantly killed from invisibility is broken.
It doesn't matter if it has no impact on a macro scale of a fight. "no counterplay" is the epitome of unfun game mechanics and even if it was balanced (and i am not saying it is) it can still be bad game design that needs adjustment.
This isn't an RTS but individual players playing a game and just being killed out of nowhere without any precursor is an issue.
I doubt a dmg nerf, even a substantial one like this will change much about player behaviour...but it will at least reduce the amount of groups/targets by requiring more archers on one target to execute the cheese. I feel for the few solo archers though
Everything depends on the targets positioning. Being hidden comes with the benefit though that you cannot know where they are, before you position yourself and (potentially) you are already dead. So how do you position yourself against an invisible enemy?easytoremember wrote: Their being hidden also does not change that the locations they can shoot from are entirely dependent upon the target's position
Seriously, i really don't believe that all of you are defending assist-archery from stealth is anything but cheese. I played an archer, i have killed unsuspecting people before their healer reacted. I know the evil giggle when you have a buddy with you and your target dies without much of a chance. I also always had a voice in the back of my head saying stuff like "lol if we were more than 2archers we could make people ragequit, because there is literally nothing they can do besides just dieing or leaving".
Swallow your bias, being instantly killed from invisibility is broken.
Tue 3 Nov 2020 1:09 PM
by
Pasa
if you want attack a keep, than stop the idiotic Polemo turns and fight well as a man..Alb bg lost at all of his turns 5-10 players, he turns for rezz and lost again 5-10 player.
dont cry about Archers, you are welcome to attack our keeps, but dont cry if you die.
otherwise dont attack the keep if you think you will die.
dont cry about Archers, you are welcome to attack our keeps, but dont cry if you die.
otherwise dont attack the keep if you think you will die.
Tue 3 Nov 2020 2:38 PM
by
Cadebrennus
Sepplord wrote: ↑Tue 3 Nov 2020 12:58 PMi'm not whining about that at all, i am explaining how being oneshot from stealth with no counterplay is an exploitable mechanic and i agree that it needs to be changed.
It doesn't matter if it has no impact on a macro scale of a fight. "no counterplay" is the epitome of unfun game mechanics and even if it was balanced (and i am not saying it is) it can still be bad game design that needs adjustment.
This isn't an RTS but individual players playing a game and just being killed out of nowhere without any precursor is an issue.
I doubt a dmg nerf, even a substantial one like this will change much about player behaviour...but it will at least reduce the amount of groups/targets by requiring more archers on one target to execute the cheese. I feel for the few solo archers though
Everything depends on the targets positioning. Being hidden comes with the benefit though that you cannot know where they are, before you position yourself and (potentially) you are already dead. So how do you position yourself against an invisible enemy?easytoremember wrote: Their being hidden also does not change that the locations they can shoot from are entirely dependent upon the target's position
Seriously, i really don't believe that all of you are defending assist-archery from stealth is anything but cheese. I played an archer, i have killed unsuspecting people before their healer reacted. I know the evil giggle when you have a buddy with you and your target dies without much of a chance. I also always had a voice in the back of my head saying stuff like "lol if we were more than 2archers we could make people ragequit, because there is literally nothing they can do besides just dieing or leaving".
Swallow your bias, being instantly killed from invisibility is broken.
We should also blame the Archers for Shield Tanks not Guarding their Casters.
My main is actually my Merc. If I'm not actively chasing a target, I am ALWAYS standing next to a Caster or Healer with Guard on them. Because of the ebb and flow of the fights (especially because Casters melt targets faster than a Tank or Archer can) there's no reason a Caster shouldn't have a Tank somewhere near them a majority of the time.
Tue 3 Nov 2020 3:13 PM
by
Freudinio
Rangers can 3shot tanks, so unsure what would do. I mean, we are lucky that there is only group of lesser players that got rolled in 8v8 and decided to make rangers and camp keeps using intel from Alb/Mid discord to get in position.
Tue 3 Nov 2020 6:44 PM
by
Astaa
If you are getting 3 shot by any archer, as a tank, then it's time to stand up, get level 50 and get your template put together.
Also, nobody cares about 8v8, that shit is so 2008
Also, nobody cares about 8v8, that shit is so 2008
Wed 4 Nov 2020 12:11 AM
by
easytoremember
I just don't see the "what if we had 5 of them assisting each other" as a reason to change itSepplord wrote: ↑Tue 3 Nov 2020 12:58 PMi'm not whining about that at all, i am explaining how being oneshot from stealth with no counterplay is an exploitable mechanic and i agree that it needs to be changed.
It doesn't matter if it has no impact on a macro scale of a fight. "no counterplay" is the epitome of unfun game mechanics and even if it was balanced (and i am not saying it is) it can still be bad game design that needs adjustment.
This isn't an RTS but individual players playing a game and just being killed out of nowhere without any precursor is an issue.
I doubt a dmg nerf, even a substantial one like this will change much about player behaviour...but it will at least reduce the amount of groups/targets by requiring more archers on one target to execute the cheese. I feel for the few solo archers though
Everything depends on the targets positioning. Being hidden comes with the benefit though that you cannot know where they are, before you position yourself and (potentially) you are already dead. So how do you position yourself against an invisible enemy?easytoremember wrote: Their being hidden also does not change that the locations they can shoot from are entirely dependent upon the target's position
Seriously, i really don't believe that all of you are defending assist-archery from stealth is anything but cheese. I played an archer, i have killed unsuspecting people before their healer reacted. I know the evil giggle when you have a buddy with you and your target dies without much of a chance. I also always had a voice in the back of my head saying stuff like "lol if we were more than 2archers we could make people ragequit, because there is literally nothing they can do besides just dieing or leaving".
Swallow your bias, being instantly killed from invisibility is broken.
A train of PA accomplishes the same "being instantly killed from invisibility"
I suppose even an 8man of minstrels can 1-time someone with a styled melee swing and salvo of instas
Wed 4 Nov 2020 7:44 AM
by
Sepplord
easytoremember wrote: ↑Wed 4 Nov 2020 12:11 AMI just don't see the "what if we had 5 of them assisting each other" as a reason to change it
A train of PA accomplishes the same "being instantly killed from invisibility"
I suppose even an 8man of minstrels can 1-time someone with a styled melee swing and salvo of instas
For someone with the name "easytoremember" you are conveniently always "forgetting" to include the tidbits of information that go counter to your claim.
Setting up a train of PAs is a completely different league of skill/coordination required to set it up, and the risk of dieing is immense EVEN if the initial target is succesfully killed, which is not as guaranteed as with archers.
Same with minstrels-assist.
And plenty of times they can be seen before it happens, they can call out in discord/get heals,guard,etc.. When they do it, there is sound and the source of the threat is easily spotted and attacked/CCed, there is counterplay
But technically you are correct, perma-invisibility is an issue, but it is a long term part of DAoC and i can understand why it will not be taken away. But realise, the argument you are making there isn't that archers killing someone from stealth without counterplay is fine...it is that stealth in general should be removed. If you want to go down that road, please, i don't think the issue is THAT big to completly remove stealth from the game.
Assisting from stealth is always cheesy, and there were always complaints about stealthers zerging, but it is a huge difference if people do it in melee-range or if they do it from 2000+ units away, possibly even from out of nearsight/amnesia range.
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