Vanish - Phoenix Freeshard

I have a couple of questions about vanish.

1. which patch era is this version of Vanish from, as i don't remember it ever being this powerful?

2. Is there any counterplay?

Stealths have an advantage in that they can pick their targets and their fights to massively maximise their chances, ok fair enough. However, It seems a bit odd that they would also get another advantage that they can also pick to flee from any fight that they wont win.

Tue 19 Feb 2019 6:21 PM by defiasbandit

It is laughable.

Tue 19 Feb 2019 6:40 PM by Druth

It's not the vanish that is powerful, but stealth mechanic.

After vanish you are still near invisibel, so you just need vanish 1, anything above that gives you no benefit.

Tue 19 Feb 2019 6:42 PM by Cadebrennus

What makes it powerful is no speccable Mastery of Stealth RA. Currently there is no counter to stealth.

Tue 19 Feb 2019 8:12 PM by Snoogy

What Cad said. I hope the Archer discussion thread that generated an "internal conversation" between GMs addresses MoS. I have no way to escape a melee assassin perfing me, but I get a crit + regular arrow get him down to 5% and he vanishes 😂 sorry I just overall hate assassins right now.

-a frustrated ranger

Tue 19 Feb 2019 8:24 PM by Quik

Snoogy wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 8:12 PM
What Cad said. I hope the Archer discussion thread that generated an "internal conversation" between GMs addresses MoS. I have no way to escape a melee assassin perfing me, but I get a crit + regular arrow get him down to 5% and he vanishes 😂 sorry I just overall hate assassins right now.

-a frustrated ranger

I feel for ya, but it isn't just archers, most classes lose to an assassin 1v1 here unless 1 has a ton more RR's then the Assassin.

They need a serious look at here, unless the GM's want them to be like this which is possible.

Tue 19 Feb 2019 9:00 PM by phixion

Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 8:24 PM
Snoogy wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 8:12 PM
What Cad said. I hope the Archer discussion thread that generated an "internal conversation" between GMs addresses MoS. I have no way to escape a melee assassin perfing me, but I get a crit + regular arrow get him down to 5% and he vanishes 😂 sorry I just overall hate assassins right now.

-a frustrated ranger

I feel for ya, but it isn't just archers, most classes lose to an assassin 1v1 here unless 1 has a ton more RR's then the Assassin.

They need a serious look at here, unless the GM's want them to be like this which is possible.

Assassins don't beat most classes 1v1, any heavy tank equal RR will most likely destroy you, any medium tank Merc/BM/Zerker, Reavers kill me in 3 swings etc.

There are obvious bad sides to stealthers, long waits between being able to jump people, getting zerged over, only being able to fight certain classes etc.

It's only for the fact we get to pick our targets (most of the time) that you think it's all rainbows...

Tue 19 Feb 2019 11:10 PM by dbeattie71

I currently don't have it on my shade, I don't care if I lose a fight, it's how I'll get better and I'd rather spend the points elsewhere. I've been in some fights where I would have liked to see the outcome but the SB/Inf vanished. I've fought SB's that Vanish after 1 swing which I don't get.

Tue 19 Feb 2019 11:54 PM by Stimmed

Only time I use it is being zerged or added on. 1v1 I have never used it just to live without an add etc at the end I'm trying to escape.

But remove it /shrug. Saves me a few runs here and there in the grand scheme of things ill put those 5 points to use elsewhere.

Like other have said if its a heavy/medium tank they are tough without purge if there crush its basically a loss they hit like trucks. Reavers I thank god dont have to fight or they would be monsters. I think friars do decently vs assassins as well from the few fights I had seen last night a friar wrecking some SBS/NS. I think if you want to give archers something to compensate go for it but high RR melee rangers are damn tough already I find. Hunters/Scouts would have it harder because no evade penetration.

Tue 19 Feb 2019 11:57 PM by Dariussdars

Snoogy wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 8:12 PM
What Cad said. I hope the Archer discussion thread that generated an "internal conversation" between GMs addresses MoS. I have no way to escape a melee assassin perfing me, but I get a crit + regular arrow get him down to 5% and he vanishes 😂 sorry I just overall hate assassins right now.

-a frustrated ranger

Frustrated ranger who spent hours killing greys in Uppland is frustrated? Noticed you had zero problem duoing with a NS also, guess his vanish and stealth didn't bother you too much.

Wed 20 Feb 2019 12:14 AM by waffel

phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 9:00 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 8:24 PM
Snoogy wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 8:12 PM
What Cad said. I hope the Archer discussion thread that generated an "internal conversation" between GMs addresses MoS. I have no way to escape a melee assassin perfing me, but I get a crit + regular arrow get him down to 5% and he vanishes 😂 sorry I just overall hate assassins right now.

-a frustrated ranger

I feel for ya, but it isn't just archers, most classes lose to an assassin 1v1 here unless 1 has a ton more RR's then the Assassin.

They need a serious look at here, unless the GM's want them to be like this which is possible.

Assassins don't beat most classes 1v1, any heavy tank equal RR will most likely destroy you, any medium tank Merc/BM/Zerker, Reavers kill me in 3 swings etc.

There are obvious bad sides to stealthers, long waits between being able to jump people, getting zerged over, only being able to fight certain classes etc.

It's only for the fact we get to pick our targets (most of the time) that you think it's all rainbows...

Wow, great argument. An assassin can’t solo a heavy/medium tank. Welp, guess they’re balanced then. I forgot how many heavy tanks are roaming the frontier sniffing out assassins and destroying them.

Wed 20 Feb 2019 12:59 AM by phixion

waffel wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 12:14 AM
phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 9:00 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 8:24 PM
I feel for ya, but it isn't just archers, most classes lose to an assassin 1v1 here unless 1 has a ton more RR's then the Assassin.

They need a serious look at here, unless the GM's want them to be like this which is possible.

Assassins don't beat most classes 1v1, any heavy tank equal RR will most likely destroy you, any medium tank Merc/BM/Zerker, Reavers kill me in 3 swings etc.

There are obvious bad sides to stealthers, long waits between being able to jump people, getting zerged over, only being able to fight certain classes etc.

It's only for the fact we get to pick our targets (most of the time) that you think it's all rainbows...

Wow, great argument. An assassin can’t solo a heavy/medium tank. Welp, guess they’re balanced then. I forgot how many heavy tanks are roaming the frontier sniffing out assassins and destroying them.

Maybe read the post I was responding to:

"I feel for ya, but it isn't just archers, most classes lose to an assassin 1v1 here unless 1 has a ton more RR's then the Assassin."

Yes, it's a very good argument in answer to that statement.

Wed 20 Feb 2019 1:08 AM by Snoogy

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 11:57 PM
Snoogy wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 8:12 PM
What Cad said. I hope the Archer discussion thread that generated an "internal conversation" between GMs addresses MoS. I have no way to escape a melee assassin perfing me, but I get a crit + regular arrow get him down to 5% and he vanishes 😂 sorry I just overall hate assassins right now.

-a frustrated ranger

Frustrated ranger who spent hours killing greys in Uppland is frustrated? Noticed you had zero problem duoing with a NS also, guess his vanish and stealth didn't bother you too much.

Cause I'm the #2 RP ranger from killing greys right? 🤣

Also, I've never once.. Not ONCE grouped with anyone on my ranger. If another stealther happens to be in the same area it's coincidence, and albs/mids actually group. I've seen matching SBs and alb stealth zergs [edit - Abuse]. Also I will continue to grey gank when the task is all the way in Emain cause it amuses me and I usually find plenty worth RPs.

Cheers

Wed 20 Feb 2019 1:42 AM by Dariussdars

Snoogy wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 1:08 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 11:57 PM
Snoogy wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 8:12 PM
What Cad said. I hope the Archer discussion thread that generated an "internal conversation" between GMs addresses MoS. I have no way to escape a melee assassin perfing me, but I get a crit + regular arrow get him down to 5% and he vanishes 😂 sorry I just overall hate assassins right now.

-a frustrated ranger

Frustrated ranger who spent hours killing greys in Uppland is frustrated? Noticed you had zero problem duoing with a NS also, guess his vanish and stealth didn't bother you too much.

Cause I'm the #2 RP ranger from killing greys right? 🤣

Also, I've never once.. Not ONCE grouped with anyone on my ranger. If another stealther happens to be in the same area it's coincidence, and albs/mids actually group. I've seen matching SBs and alb stealth zergs so [edit - Abuse]. Also I will continue to grey gank when the task is all the way in Emain cause it amuses me and I usually find plenty worth RPs.

Cheers

Who said you were grouped with anyone genius? You aren't solo having a pocket NS right next to you to bail you out when you attack the wrong player. You teamed up with the same NS twice against me earlier. I watched you kill nothing but Xpers for hours, as did anyone else who was logged on. Best part was you /rofl as you hid in stealth afraid to attack. Pure comedy someone with your play style complaining about vanish and stealth on assassins.

Wed 20 Feb 2019 1:51 AM by Stimmed

waffel wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 12:14 AM
phixion wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 9:00 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 8:24 PM
I feel for ya, but it isn't just archers, most classes lose to an assassin 1v1 here unless 1 has a ton more RR's then the Assassin.

They need a serious look at here, unless the GM's want them to be like this which is possible.

Assassins don't beat most classes 1v1, any heavy tank equal RR will most likely destroy you, any medium tank Merc/BM/Zerker, Reavers kill me in 3 swings etc.

There are obvious bad sides to stealthers, long waits between being able to jump people, getting zerged over, only being able to fight certain classes etc.

It's only for the fact we get to pick our targets (most of the time) that you think it's all rainbows...

Wow, great argument. An assassin can’t solo a heavy/medium tank. Welp, guess they’re balanced then. I forgot how many heavy tanks are roaming the frontier sniffing out assassins and destroying them.

So an assassin cant steamroll other sins heavy/medium/hybrid tanks. So we do very well vs casters that run in a straight line and well vs hunters/scouts/rangers....Cool?

Most this complaining is from ppl trying to play a solo wizard or something stupid then wonder why there not dominating everything. And getting 3 shot running un buffed in a straight line to Mile gates. The class is doing what its meant to do excelling in most cases in 1v1 scenarios.

Wed 20 Feb 2019 3:31 AM by dbeattie71

An assigns job is to kill casters and maybe support. At least that’s how I play it. In a fight I’ll hit the healers casters and usually when hitting a support die in the process which is fine because hopefully I tied them long enough to do some good.

Classes I’ve landed PA/CD on and lost:
BD
Necro
Healer (obvious),
Friar,
Skald,
Inf/SB - yeah I know, I’m a noob. I re did my whole play style to be as fast as possible on the attack from stealth. It took a while to get used to and though it’s finally paying off I’ve landed PA/CD on and Inf and SB and lost the fight by a few hits. It’s demoralizing but my job isn’t really to kill other assasins as much as what I stated before.

That’s a bit off the rails but I don’t have vanish so I can maximize my ability to do my job.

Wed 20 Feb 2019 5:49 AM by Akopra

For me an ability that make you totaly safe when you choose to begin a fight even if the ennemy beats you should just never exist, almost on one of the best 1v1 class, but it's my point of view ^^

Wed 20 Feb 2019 6:13 AM by Druth

dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 3:31 AM
An assigns job is to kill casters and maybe support. At least that’s how I play it. In a fight I’ll hit the healers casters and usually when hitting a support die in the process which is fine because hopefully I tied them long enough to do some good.

And I really like that concept.

The problem is that no one has the tools to kill assassins, because no one has the tools to reliably find them. Assassins can find archers, but no one can find assassins.
It's the only class that gets to pick which fights they want, and the only class that can escape from fights that turned out badly for them.

I can die to an assassin, easy, and thats okay. But it's not okay that I can get the jump on him when he then later attacks a another one, and not get my revenge because he vanishes. A RA he spend 5 points on getting.

There should be a hard counter to assassins, and/or vanish should be:
Vanish 1-3 cost 10/20/30, vanish 1 5 sec delay, vanish 1-2 only be used after a kill, vanish 3 use whenever. Vanish 1-3 all gets duration/speed like old vanish 5.

Wed 20 Feb 2019 8:27 AM by imamo

5 rp is really chep for that ra comparing to broken useless volley of archers which is 8 rp, a single regular shot(long shot) is 6 rp.
maybe it can be adjusted like purge with seconds delay. rank 1 you vanish after x seconds use etc.

Wed 20 Feb 2019 9:29 AM by Snoogy

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 1:42 AM
Snoogy wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 1:08 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 11:57 PM
Frustrated ranger who spent hours killing greys in Uppland is frustrated? Noticed you had zero problem duoing with a NS also, guess his vanish and stealth didn't bother you too much.

Cause I'm the #2 RP ranger from killing greys right? 🤣

Also, I've never once.. Not ONCE grouped with anyone on my ranger. If another stealther happens to be in the same area it's coincidence, and albs/mids actually group. I've seen matching SBs and alb stealth zergs so [edit - Abuse]. Also I will continue to grey gank when the task is all the way in Emain cause it amuses me and I usually find plenty worth RPs.

Cheers

Who said you were grouped with anyone genius? You aren't solo having a pocket NS right next to you to bail you out when you attack the wrong player. You teamed up with the same NS twice against me earlier. I watched you kill nothing but Xpers for hours, as did anyone else who was logged on. Best part was you /rofl as you hid in stealth afraid to attack. Pure comedy someone with your play style complaining about vanish and stealth on assassins.

Hahahhahahaha oh you were that bonedancer hahahahhahahahahah sorry anyone who plays bonedancer has an opinion that means absolutely nothing to me. Sorry thought you were someone worth talking to.

Those XPers got me 3k rps in 15 mins too 🤣 I go to border keeps to mess with my enemy realms when emain is the task. Too far of a run to get perfed by 10 shadowblades immediately anyway so I kill their grey comrades 😂

Wed 20 Feb 2019 10:17 AM by Sepplord

Snoogy wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 9:29 AM
Hahahhahahaha oh you were that bonedancer hahahahhahahahahah sorry anyone who plays bonedancer has an opinion that means absolutely nothing to me. Sorry thought you were someone worth talking to.

Those XPers got me 3k rps in 15 mins too 🤣 I go to border keeps to mess with my enemy realms when emain is the task. Too far of a run to get perfed by 10 shadowblades immediately anyway so I kill their grey comrades 😂

Straight from r/gatekeeping

PS: if you truely don't care about someones opinion, then don't respond and don't justify yourself. It shows that "not caring" was a lie

Wed 20 Feb 2019 10:19 AM by Dariussdars

Snoogy wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 9:29 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 1:42 AM
Snoogy wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Feb 2019 1:08 AM
Cause I'm the #2 RP ranger from killing greys right? 🤣

Also, I've never once.. Not ONCE grouped with anyone on my ranger. If another stealther happens to be in the same area it's coincidence, and albs/mids actually group. I've seen matching SBs and alb stealth zergs so [edit - Abuse]. Also I will continue to grey gank when the task is all the way in Emain cause it amuses me and I usually find plenty worth RPs.

Cheers

Who said you were grouped with anyone genius? You aren't solo having a pocket NS right next to you to bail you out when you attack the wrong player. You teamed up with the same NS twice against me earlier. I watched you kill nothing but Xpers for hours, as did anyone else who was logged on. Best part was you /rofl as you hid in stealth afraid to attack. Pure comedy someone with your play style complaining about vanish and stealth on assassins.

Hahahhahahaha oh you were that bonedancer hahahahhahahahahah sorry anyone who plays bonedancer has an opinion that means absolutely nothing to me. Sorry thought you were someone worth talking to.

Those XPers got me 3k rps in 15 mins too 🤣 I go to border keeps to mess with my enemy realms when emain is the task. Too far of a run to get perfed by 10 shadowblades immediately anyway so I kill their grey comrades 😂

Derp, because playing a ranged stealther takes any kind of skill? I made a BD to actually be able to survive skill less players like you.

Wed 20 Feb 2019 11:04 AM by Blitze

So thanks all for the input from this conversation:

Answers are...
1. it’s cheaper and better than Vanish from any other version of DAoC.

2. It has no counter-play

It enables the assassin to chose if they die. Therefore, I conclude it is broken and I hope the fix comes ASAP cos I do get some enjoyment from getting the RPs when I beat an assassin as I am sure the assassin is happy to collect my RPs from beating me.

TY again for your input.

Wed 20 Feb 2019 11:12 AM by Sepplord

that's a pretty onesided summary

Wed 20 Feb 2019 11:18 AM by Durgrim

generally speaking there should be no vanish at all.
If the assassin decides to come out of stealth and engage then he should take responsibility for maybe choosing poor location or the wrong timing. why does he get a second chance?

Wed 20 Feb 2019 2:11 PM by yasow

Discussion seems over, there is also another thread with the same topic where you guys can talk about the RA vanish. Stay nice though.