We all do appreciate all the work you do and I know many express that by donating. You sounded a bit angry so I figured I chime in and let you know many of us really appreciate what you guys do. And appreciate that you do listen to us.
Thank You For Not Going Forward With The Style Changes
Started 16 Oct 2020
by
Roto23
in
RvR
Fri 16 Oct 2020 4:33 PM
by
Lux.Thoras
Roto23 wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 3:34 PMWe all do appreciate all the work you do and I know many express that by donating. You sounded a bit angry so I figured I chime in and let you know many of us really appreciate what you guys do. And appreciate that you do listen to us.
No, not all do appreciate.
The changes where announced as "work in progress" and not as final. So no one could estimate what would be the final state, but many people always think they know everything better. Also saying for every planned change: If you do this, then i will stop playing, is from my point of view so unfair towards the developers.
Now none of the classes that would need these changes are being buffed. And that's because of some crying babies who cannot live without having an advantage over others, or who are unable to live in a changing world.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:01 PM
by
Higach
Lux.Thoras wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 4:33 PMRoto23 wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 3:34 PMWe all do appreciate all the work you do and I know many express that by donating. You sounded a bit angry so I figured I chime in and let you know many of us really appreciate what you guys do. And appreciate that you do listen to us.
No, not all do appreciate.
The changes where announced as "work in progress" and not as final. So no one could estimate what would be the final state, but many people always think they know everything better. Also saying for every planned change: If you do this, then i will stop playing, is from my point of view so unfair towards the developers.
Now none of the classes that would need these changes are being buffed. And that's because of some crying babies who cannot live without having an advantage over others, or who are unable to live in a changing world.
Nah dawg. What people wanted was for the useless melee lines to get a little love. What was proposed was a complete overhaul to all melee styles in the game.
OF COURSE that's how people would react. To expect any different is completely asinine.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:01 PM
by
floodie
+1 Thank you 
Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:05 PM
by
Bradekes
Higach wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:01 PMNah dawg. What people wanted was for the useless melee lines to get a little love. What was proposed was a complete overhaul to all melee styles in the game.
OF COURSE that's how people would react. To expect any different is completely asinine.
People with this type of thought process are going to kill the server. The devs were trying to find a DOABLE solution to the problem. Your expectations were too high for a small team to rebuild the whole style library by themselves. Live styles aren't perfect and they never said they were implementing them and that was that. They instead said they would implement them and test the waters. Also give everyone free respect to try things out. Now we get nothing and we're not better off because of it.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:11 PM
by
Ele
Roto23 wrote: And appreciate that you do listen to us.
This has nothing to do with listening to someone like "us". Many of "us" gave positive feedback to the proposed change, of course with limitations and variations on details. Noone of "us" wanted to freeze the state of the server, which is what actually happened.
Noone wanted this, but this is what we get for being a toxic community. I can only hope that, after moods have cooled down a bit, our staff gets back to keeping the server healthy and alive by rolling out changes like the proposed ones, with a community able to realize that those are always subject to changes and announced as such.gruenesschaf wrote: Aside from bug fixes there won't be anymore gameplay changes until then(.)
Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:11 PM
by
Higach
Bradekes wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:05 PMHigach wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:01 PMNah dawg. What people wanted was for the useless melee lines to get a little love. What was proposed was a complete overhaul to all melee styles in the game.
OF COURSE that's how people would react. To expect any different is completely asinine.
People with this type of thought process are going to kill the server. The devs were trying to find a DOABLE solution to the problem. Your expectations were too high for a small team to rebuild the whole style library by themselves. Live styles aren't perfect and they never said they were implementing them and that was that. They instead said they would implement them and test the waters. Also give everyone free respect to try things out. Now we get nothing and we're not better off because of it.
1) Quit acting like it requires them to adjust 1300 styles. They could tweak literally 10 styles and make a world of difference.
2) If the only possible option was completely revamp the styles that's fine. Put that up to a vote and be honest. Let everyone ahead of time know "Hey due to limitations, these are the only two options, please vote if you'd want to see styles 2.0 overhaul everything, or keep it as is." But they didn't. They never do that hence the massive negativity. Again, anyone should have seen this reaction coming a mile away with how it was handled.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:16 PM
by
thirian24
Higach wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:11 PMBradekes wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:05 PMHigach wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:01 PMNah dawg. What people wanted was for the useless melee lines to get a little love. What was proposed was a complete overhaul to all melee styles in the game.
OF COURSE that's how people would react. To expect any different is completely asinine.
People with this type of thought process are going to kill the server. The devs were trying to find a DOABLE solution to the problem. Your expectations were too high for a small team to rebuild the whole style library by themselves. Live styles aren't perfect and they never said they were implementing them and that was that. They instead said they would implement them and test the waters. Also give everyone free respect to try things out. Now we get nothing and we're not better off because of it.
1) Quit acting like it requires them to adjust 1300 styles. They could tweak literally 10 styles and make a world of difference.
2) If the only possible option was completely revamp the styles that's fine. Put that up to a vote and be honest. Let everyone ahead of time know "Hey due to limitations, these are the only two options, please vote if you'd want to see styles 2.0 overhaul everything, or keep it as is." But they didn't. They never do that hence the massive negativity. Again, anyone should have seen this reaction coming a mile away with how it was handled.
I agree Higach 100%
And Bradekes, how can you not see that with those changes, there will be NEW BETTER SPEC LINES. Just like now, there are more preferable spec lines. The same would be true if they did style overhaul. That would mean, for many many people, changes their current spec to a new one.. which means a new template. Its not just simply respecing and trying something new.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:17 PM
by
Parole
Too bad. I am sure all those friars and wardens we're finally excited. Skald and Thane too. I guess no change to Scout snare so that's good news for me anyway >< .
This server is full of toxic whiners. No doubt about that now. Hard work rewarded with nothing but nasty comments and irreverent behavior. It's one thing to disagree and post reason why, it's another to just be a rude troll.
imo yall should be ashamed.
This server is full of toxic whiners. No doubt about that now. Hard work rewarded with nothing but nasty comments and irreverent behavior. It's one thing to disagree and post reason why, it's another to just be a rude troll.
imo yall should be ashamed.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:24 PM
by
Lux.Thoras
thirian24 wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:16 PMI agree Higach 100%
And Bradekes, how can you not see that with those changes, there will be NEW BETTER SPEC LINES. Just like now, there are more preferable spec lines. The same would be true if they did style overhaul. That would mean, for many many people, changes their current spec to a new one.. which means a new template. Its not just simply respecing and trying something new.
After, what I saw in the Charplaner, all the spec lines were updated and where competitive. Why should this mean someone has to change his specification? I could not see any reason why i would not use LargeWeapons or why Hammer is useless now or Pole is not competetive anymore.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:28 PM
by
Parole
Lux.Thoras wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:24 PMthirian24 wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:16 PMI agree Higach 100%
And Bradekes, how can you not see that with those changes, there will be NEW BETTER SPEC LINES. Just like now, there are more preferable spec lines. The same would be true if they did style overhaul. That would mean, for many many people, changes their current spec to a new one.. which means a new template. Its not just simply respecing and trying something new.
After, what I saw in the Charplaner, all the spec lines were updated and where competitive. Why should this mean someone has to change his specification? I could not see any reason why i would not use LargeWeapons or why Hammer is useless now or Pole is not competetive anymore.
worst case scenario a lot of people would end up switching out a couple of armor pieces to accommodate a different weapon spec. Not a big deal imo. Most templates have +4-5 to all weaponlines and usually use gloves and boots to fill out the weapon spec of their choice.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:30 PM
by
bluefalcon420
Call me crazy but none of the reaver weapon lines looked more viable than flex.
The mission was a failure.
The mission was a failure.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:32 PM
by
thirian24
Im aware of what it takes to change a temp, but simply saying "just respec and try it" doesnt work here.
This isnt like changing your RAs.
This isnt like changing your RAs.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:35 PM
by
Lux.Thoras
Parole wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:28 PMworst case scenario a lot of people would end up switching out a couple of armor pieces to accommodate a different weapon spec. Not a big deal imo. Most templates have +4-5 to all weaponlines and usually use gloves and boots to fill out the weapon spec of their choice.
From the new Styles they where not forced to switch. The already used Spec lines where still competetive.
But ok, now the crying community get´s what they wanted. No further changes anymore. Stay happy with it and thank you to everybody which was part of this activity.
Exactly action like this always crying are killing the server, nothing else.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:40 PM
by
stewbeedoo
I deeply appreciate this server and that the Devs have sacrificed their own time to provide us with so much fun.
I think the issue is understanding what the philosophy of Phoenix is. I think most of us were sold on:
1. The idea of a classically inspired DAoC server, where all the stupid things EA/Broadsword did to Live are gone.
2. QOL improvements to reduce the grind (crafting, PVE) because we all just want to RvR.
3. A server where players were punished for cheating and not following the rules.
For the most part Phoenix has delivered on this vision brilliantly.
The proposed Style changes and a few other recent changes I believe move in another direction. Phoenix is at risk of diverging from the vision that I think most of us bought into.
I think most agree that small changes to Styles would be a good thing - but not an entirely new system. For example, on my Blade Ranger my anytime and evade backup style animations are both yellow so it is sometimes hard to tell which fired. Changing the colour of one would be great. A series of small, incremental changes would be great.
Kudos to the Devs for creating Phoenix and listening to the player base. I'm sorry that much of the Devs time spent on the Style overhaul will be wasted. Frustrating for the Devs for sure.
I think the issue is understanding what the philosophy of Phoenix is. I think most of us were sold on:
1. The idea of a classically inspired DAoC server, where all the stupid things EA/Broadsword did to Live are gone.
2. QOL improvements to reduce the grind (crafting, PVE) because we all just want to RvR.
3. A server where players were punished for cheating and not following the rules.
For the most part Phoenix has delivered on this vision brilliantly.
The proposed Style changes and a few other recent changes I believe move in another direction. Phoenix is at risk of diverging from the vision that I think most of us bought into.
I think most agree that small changes to Styles would be a good thing - but not an entirely new system. For example, on my Blade Ranger my anytime and evade backup style animations are both yellow so it is sometimes hard to tell which fired. Changing the colour of one would be great. A series of small, incremental changes would be great.
Kudos to the Devs for creating Phoenix and listening to the player base. I'm sorry that much of the Devs time spent on the Style overhaul will be wasted. Frustrating for the Devs for sure.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:40 PM
by
Bradekes
Higach wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:11 PM1) Quit acting like it requires them to adjust 1300 styles. They could tweak literally 10 styles and make a world of difference.
2) If the only possible option was completely revamp the styles that's fine. Put that up to a vote and be honest. Let everyone ahead of time know "Hey due to limitations, these are the only two options, please vote if you'd want to see styles 2.0 overhaul everything, or keep it as is." But they didn't. They never do that hence the massive negativity. Again, anyone should have seen this reaction coming a mile away with how it was handled.
So what exactly should they have done? Which styles should they have adjusted. Should they have adjusted it for every class that has that style line or just certain classes. Do you think people would of been happy no matter what approach they took?
To me their idea was the logical one. They knew they would be called out for favoritism if they drew up the styles themselves and would have people complaining much like they are already. They can't be expected to do things based on the community that brought them NO IDEAS just requested change.
Also yes it's not 1300 styles they'd have to adjust, just that many that they'd have to pit in consideration for the changes. Also let's say they just adjusted 1 style in swords for mid, that means they'd have to go in and change it for every class that has sword spec because there isn't one library for each type of weapon but one for each class. That's a lot of work if you want them to adjust full spec paths for every realm.
So again come off your high horse and get back to reality.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:43 PM
by
Roto23
Ele wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:11 PMRoto23 wrote: And appreciate that you do listen to us.
This has nothing to do with listening to someone like "us". Many of "us" gave positive feedback to the proposed change, of course with limitations and variations on details. Noone of "us" wanted to freeze the state of the server, which is what actually happened.Noone wanted this, but this is what we get for being a toxic community. I can only hope that, after moods have cooled down a bit, our staff gets back to keeping the server healthy and alive by rolling out changes like the proposed ones, with a community able to realize that those are always subject to changes and announced as such.gruenesschaf wrote: Aside from bug fixes there won't be anymore gameplay changes until then(.)
No way, the responses were overwhelming negative against the changes. So they listened to the majority.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:46 PM
by
Higach
Bradekes wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:40 PMHigach wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:11 PM1) Quit acting like it requires them to adjust 1300 styles. They could tweak literally 10 styles and make a world of difference.
2) If the only possible option was completely revamp the styles that's fine. Put that up to a vote and be honest. Let everyone ahead of time know "Hey due to limitations, these are the only two options, please vote if you'd want to see styles 2.0 overhaul everything, or keep it as is." But they didn't. They never do that hence the massive negativity. Again, anyone should have seen this reaction coming a mile away with how it was handled.
So what exactly should they have done? Which styles should they have adjusted. Should they have adjusted it for every class that has that style line or just certain classes. Do you think people would of been happy no matter what approach they took?
To me their idea was the logical one. They knew they would be called out for favoritism if they drew up the styles themselves and would have people complaining much like they are already. They can't be expected to do things based on the community that brought them NO IDEAS just requested change.
Also yes it's not 1300 styles they'd have to adjust, just that many that they'd have to put in consideration for the changes. Also let's say they just adjusted 1 style in swords for mid, that means they'd have to go in and change it for every class that has sword spec because there isn't one library for each type of weapon but one for each class. That's a lot of work if you want them to adjust full spec paths for every realm.
So again come off your high horse and get back to reality.
So not only did you ignore my second point completely, you also seem to believe that it would be more work and more difficult to do what you just proposed rather than to completely overhaul all of melee with styles 2.0 AND THEN address all of the issues and imbalances this causes because you are missing years of patches, expansions, class changes etc between 1.65 and when styles 2.0 hit live?
Okay dude.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:51 PM
by
Noashakra
Parole wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:17 PMToo bad. I am sure all those friars and wardens we're finally excited. Skald and Thane too. I guess no change to Scout snare so that's good news for me anyway >< .
This server is full of toxic whiners. No doubt about that now. Hard work rewarded with nothing but nasty comments and irreverent behavior. It's one thing to disagree and post reason why, it's another to just be a rude troll.
imo yall should be ashamed.
Lmao. it takes one to know one.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:54 PM
by
Lux.Thoras
Roto23 wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:43 PMNo way, the responses were overwhelming negative against the changes. So they listened to the majority.
No, they did not listen, they gave up to improve, because a lot of players to not understand.
I can understand the staff for this decision.
As the Hitpoint buff was introduced, many people where crying: NO DO NOT introduce, i will stop playing, but they are still playing.
After they introduced the changes to the Crit RA, again many crying, if you do this, i will stop playing. Whats the case? People are still playing.
With RR5 RAs it´s the same and with Style changes also, i could increase this list for every feature in this Forum.
If you all the time get this crying Feedback against all the work and effort you spent into improvments made to a game you can play for free, then at some point you loose the interest improving the situation.
It's the same as always, the people who are only criticizing are the loudest.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:58 PM
by
Bradekes
Higach wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:46 PMSo not only did you ignore my second point completely, you also seem to believe that it would be more work and more difficult to do what you just proposed rather than to completely overhaul all of melee with styles 2.0 AND THEN address all of the issues and imbalances this causes because you are missing years of patches, expansions, class changes etc between 1.65 and when styles 2.0 hit live?
Okay dude.
They can't be accused of being biased this way. Also adjusting 10-20styles from the new style list seems a hell of a lot easier seeings most of the style list is pretty balanced otherwise. Remove some DD styles and tone some other effect down is a very small choir vs doing a bunch of work people will complain about anyways.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 6:03 PM
by
opossum12
thirian24 wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:16 PMHigach wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:11 PMBradekes wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:05 PMHigach wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:01 PMNah dawg. What people wanted was for the useless melee lines to get a little love. What was proposed was a complete overhaul to all melee styles in the game.
OF COURSE that's how people would react. To expect any different is completely asinine.
People with this type of thought process are going to kill the server. The devs were trying to find a DOABLE solution to the problem. Your expectations were too high for a small team to rebuild the whole style library by themselves. Live styles aren't perfect and they never said they were implementing them and that was that. They instead said they would implement them and test the waters. Also give everyone free respect to try things out. Now we get nothing and we're not better off because of it.
1) Quit acting like it requires them to adjust 1300 styles. They could tweak literally 10 styles and make a world of difference.
2) If the only possible option was completely revamp the styles that's fine. Put that up to a vote and be honest. Let everyone ahead of time know "Hey due to limitations, these are the only two options, please vote if you'd want to see styles 2.0 overhaul everything, or keep it as is." But they didn't. They never do that hence the massive negativity. Again, anyone should have seen this reaction coming a mile away with how it was handled.
I agree Higach 100%
And Bradekes, how can you not see that with those changes, there will be NEW BETTER SPEC LINES. Just like now, there are more preferable spec lines. The same would be true if they did style overhaul. That would mean, for many many people, changes their current spec to a new one.. which means a new template. Its not just simply respecing and trying something new.
Let's compare this to Live for a moment, since the styles are coming from a future version of the game.
You know what drives 99% of the weaponline decision on Live? Weapon choice. All lines are competitive and have value for different things, with very little exceptions (nothing's perfect). Some will likely be preferred by specific classes due to the utility of that line, but instead of 95% of all classes in a realm (mid hammer) using the one line, people actually have a choice here since weapons are mostly Lifetap rogs, which can be any damage type.
A new template... Come on. If your template is that big of an issue to replace, it's probably weaponless. If it's not then it's just a cheap template from which you can swap things around at a relatively low cost.
The style changes, when they were announced, were presented with the attitude of "let's see how this goes, and fix it case by case when we see imbalances".
Now we're still with a VW with 20% of his styles completely useless, merc styles suck, Zerks still suck, etc etc etc.
Could the warden 50% ABS debuff be OP? Maybe. How can you know? Would be 50% heal debuff in the blunt line be OP? Maybe. You don't know.
You guys aren't even giving the devs a chance to improve their server and make changes that would be for the good health of the game and make it interesting.
But I guess people are happy playing stealthers spamming their off evade reactionary and praying the RNG gods are with them.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 6:04 PM
by
Roto23
You're really twisting here (are you a minstrel?). The majority asked them to not go through with the style changes. It's their server so it's their rules and yet they didn't take that path and listened to the majority even when it pissed off a few devs, so they put the majority before themselves.Lux.Thoras wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:54 PMRoto23 wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:43 PMNo way, the responses were overwhelming negative against the changes. So they listened to the majority.
No, they did not listen, they gave up to improve, because a lot of players to not understand.
I can understand the staff for this decision.
As the Hitpoint buff was introduced, many people where crying: NO DO NOT introduce, i will stop playing, but they are still playing.
After they introduced the changes to the Crit RA, again many crying, if you do this, i will stop playing. Whats the case? People are still playing.
With RR5 RAs it´s the same and with Style changes also, i could increase this list for every feature in this Forum.
If you all the time get this crying Feedback against all the work and effort you spent into improvments made to a game you can play for free, then at some point you loose the interest improving the situation.
It's the same as always, the people who are only criticizing are the loudest.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 6:14 PM
by
Lux.Thoras
Roto23 wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 6:04 PMYou're really twisting here (are you a minstrel?). The majority asked them to not go through with the style changes. It's their server so it's their rules and yet they didn't take that path and listened to the majority even when it pissed off a few devs, so they put the majority before themselves.
Then look at the Discord channel. I do not see that they decided to do not introduce the changes because of the big and wise majority.
Uthred today at 16:52 Uhr
style and any other further game changes have been canceled
Uthred today at 19:39 Uhr
no more changes
Fri 16 Oct 2020 6:29 PM
by
Saroi
I hope the Devs really reconsider or maybe do a vote about the changes written in the style changes. Canceling everything now just because maybe 1% of keyboard warriors are constantly complaining about every change that is being announced is just annoying.
Reading the discord game-advice channel atm there is a good amount of people wanting this style change. I Personally think some stuff are a bit too much but overall a good base since always having the same stuff does kinda get bored and it is not like we will every have some other big changes like normal games do with addons etc.
Reading the discord game-advice channel atm there is a good amount of people wanting this style change. I Personally think some stuff are a bit too much but overall a good base since always having the same stuff does kinda get bored and it is not like we will every have some other big changes like normal games do with addons etc.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 6:36 PM
by
thirian24
opossum12 wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 6:03 PMthirian24 wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:16 PMHigach wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:11 PMBradekes wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:05 PMHigach wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:01 PMNah dawg. What people wanted was for the useless melee lines to get a little love. What was proposed was a complete overhaul to all melee styles in the game.
OF COURSE that's how people would react. To expect any different is completely asinine.
People with this type of thought process are going to kill the server. The devs were trying to find a DOABLE solution to the problem. Your expectations were too high for a small team to rebuild the whole style library by themselves. Live styles aren't perfect and they never said they were implementing them and that was that. They instead said they would implement them and test the waters. Also give everyone free respect to try things out. Now we get nothing and we're not better off because of it.
1) Quit acting like it requires them to adjust 1300 styles. They could tweak literally 10 styles and make a world of difference.
2) If the only possible option was completely revamp the styles that's fine. Put that up to a vote and be honest. Let everyone ahead of time know "Hey due to limitations, these are the only two options, please vote if you'd want to see styles 2.0 overhaul everything, or keep it as is." But they didn't. They never do that hence the massive negativity. Again, anyone should have seen this reaction coming a mile away with how it was handled.
I agree Higach 100%
And Bradekes, how can you not see that with those changes, there will be NEW BETTER SPEC LINES. Just like now, there are more preferable spec lines. The same would be true if they did style overhaul. That would mean, for many many people, changes their current spec to a new one.. which means a new template. Its not just simply respecing and trying something new.
Let's compare this to Live for a moment, since the styles are coming from a future version of the game.
You know what drives 99% of the weaponline decision on Live? Weapon choice. All lines are competitive and have value for different things, with very little exceptions (nothing's perfect). Some will likely be preferred by specific classes due to the utility of that line, but instead of 95% of all classes in a realm (mid hammer) using the one line, people actually have a choice here since weapons are mostly Lifetap rogs, which can be any damage type.
A new template... Come on. If your template is that big of an issue to replace, it's probably weaponless. If it's not then it's just a cheap template from which you can swap things around at a relatively low cost.
The style changes, when they were announced,were presented with the attitude of "let's see how this goes, and fix it case by case when we see imbalances".
Now we're still with a VW with 20% of his styles completely useless, merc styles suck, Zerks still suck, etc etc etc.
Could the warden 50% ABS debuff be OP? Maybe. How can you know? Would be 50% heal debuff in the blunt line be OP? Maybe. You don't know.
You guys aren't even giving the devs a chance to improve their server and make changes that would be for the good health of the game and make it interesting.
But I guess people are happy playing stealthers spamming their off evade reactionary and praying the RNG gods are with them.
Yeah, We see how well that went with archery changes.. that are still plaguing the server.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 6:50 PM
by
IdiamVonGawaine
They're not implementing that trash?
GOOD!
When you ask if somebody wants something different for lunch, and then offer them a @%#^ sandwich, don't be surprised when they don't want it, and toss back in your face.
Let that "style update" trash from live server burn in the dumpster fire of bad ideas with those awful RA suggestions.
GOOD!
When you ask if somebody wants something different for lunch, and then offer them a @%#^ sandwich, don't be surprised when they don't want it, and toss back in your face.
Let that "style update" trash from live server burn in the dumpster fire of bad ideas with those awful RA suggestions.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 6:59 PM
by
Bradekes
Roto23 wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 6:04 PMYou're really twisting here (are you a minstrel?). The majority asked them to not go through with the style changes. It's their server so it's their rules and yet they didn't take that path and listened to the majority even when it pissed off a few devs, so they put the majority before themselves.
How many devs do you think this server has? It's like gruens and uthred.. you pissed off 100% of the devs.. you guys take so much for granted whiny bastards.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 7:07 PM
by
Ele
Roto23 wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:43 PMEle wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:11 PMRoto23 wrote: And appreciate that you do listen to us.
This has nothing to do with listening to someone like "us". Many of "us" gave positive feedback to the proposed change, of course with limitations and variations on details. Noone of "us" wanted to freeze the state of the server, which is what actually happened.Noone wanted this, but this is what we get for being a toxic community. I can only hope that, after moods have cooled down a bit, our staff gets back to keeping the server healthy and alive by rolling out changes like the proposed ones, with a community able to realize that those are always subject to changes and announced as such.gruenesschaf wrote: Aside from bug fixes there won't be anymore gameplay changes until then(.)
No way, the responses were overwhelming negative against the changes. So they listened to the majority.
You still don't get it, do you?
Fri 16 Oct 2020 7:14 PM
by
Lux.Thoras
IdiamVonGawaine wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 6:50 PMThey're not implementing that trash?
GOOD!
When you ask if somebody wants something different for lunch, and then offer them a @%#^ sandwich, don't be surprised when they don't want it, and toss back in your face.
Let that "style update" trash from live server burn in the dumpster fire of bad ideas with those awful RA suggestions.
And another troll boarding the poisoning train blaming every improvement. I bet, you did not spent at least 30 seconds to think about the upcoming changes neither looking on the charplaner to check the changes on the styles. Otherwise you would have realized that the changes would not destroy any of the classes, it would bring the spec lines closer together.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 7:30 PM
by
IdiamVonGawaine
Nice use of liberal arts college buzzwords, Karen.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 7:33 PM
by
Forlornhope
Lux.Thoras wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 7:14 PMIdiamVonGawaine wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 6:50 PMThey're not implementing that trash?
GOOD!
When you ask if somebody wants something different for lunch, and then offer them a @%#^ sandwich, don't be surprised when they don't want it, and toss back in your face.
Let that "style update" trash from live server burn in the dumpster fire of bad ideas with those awful RA suggestions.
And another troll boarding the poisoning train blaming every improvement. I bet, you did not spent at least 30 seconds to think about the upcoming changes neither looking on the charplaner to check the changes on the styles. Otherwise you would have realized that the changes would not destroy any of the classes, it would bring the spec lines closer together.
I admit, when I first read about the changes I was upset and voiced my opinion on the forum in a negative manner. But after a few hours of contemplation and theory crafting with my buddy in discord I came around to how it could be a cool and fun change/week with everyone trying out new things and kind of just testing it out and giving feedback on what needs tweaking. After reading all the negative things people were saying I felt pretty bad about what I had said with my first initial oh crap reaction to what these changes would mean. But people will always resist change, even if it could have positive results in the long run after some tweaking or removal of certain features. Now, I find it baffling that people don't want the fun of learning this game and their classes again.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 7:34 PM
by
Arcuss
Parole wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:17 PMToo bad. I am sure all those friars and wardens we're finally excited. Skald and Thane too. I guess no change to Scout snare so that's good news for me anyway >< .
This server is full of toxic whiners. No doubt about that now. Hard work rewarded with nothing but nasty comments and irreverent behavior. It's one thing to disagree and post reason why, it's another to just be a rude troll.
imo yall should be ashamed.
100% Agree. Those that complained should be completely ashamed of themselves
Fri 16 Oct 2020 7:43 PM
by
stewbeedoo
Sure for some it may be interesting to play a Phoenix that has diverged completely from old DAoc and is in fact a new game.Forlornhope wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 7:33 PMI admit, when I first read about the changes I was upset and voiced my opinion on the forum in a negative manner. But after a few hours of contemplation and theory crafting with my buddy in discord I came around to how it could be a cool and fun change/week with everyone trying out new things and kind of just testing it out and giving feedback on what needs tweaking. After reading all the negative things people were saying I felt pretty bad about what I had said with my first initial oh crap reaction to what these changes would mean. But people will always resist change, even if it could have positive results in the long run after some tweaking or removal of certain features. Now, I find it baffling that people don't want the fun of learning this game and their classes again.
However, I believe most people just want to play old DAoC, with QOL improvements and strict enforcement of cheating. Which was pretty much what Phoenix was the first year and very successful.
One of the ways Live failed was making big changes that alienated players and even worse made it very difficult for returning players. Most people just want to log in and play - not have to figure out how to play their class again due to big changes.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 7:46 PM
by
tommccartney
When I filled out the survey, the Question read to me;
-‘Would you like to see ALL melee weapons Viable’.-
And I voted ‘Yes’.
To me, that meant; MOST already were viable, as we already know.
To make ‘ALL VIABLE’ then a few adjustments were needed, something along the lines of the following;
-Add a short positional stun to LA, since Zerks don’t get access to 9sec slam, & without giving SB more than Nightshade CD
-Merc receive a rear snare, like BM(cd) and Zerk(hammer)
-Some any time styles with 0 hit bonus gain a to-hit-bonus
-VW 3 part side chain becomes 2part with slightly lesser delve
-Hib blunt gain some utility
-Sword/axe viablity
Again, my ideas above are just my opinion and solely that, some players may agree some may disagree. Some may was to add a few more, some might want to take away.
However, the above would be extremely easy to monitor from player base feedback - appose to a complete overhaul.
Had the Question on the survey read the following;
‘Would you like to see current style updated to the current live version of DAoC?’
I would have voted ‘NO’. And I think so would a lot of people.
So I feel Gruen comment on ‘what the fuck did you expect’ wasn't fair.
-‘Would you like to see ALL melee weapons Viable’.-
And I voted ‘Yes’.
To me, that meant; MOST already were viable, as we already know.
To make ‘ALL VIABLE’ then a few adjustments were needed, something along the lines of the following;
-Add a short positional stun to LA, since Zerks don’t get access to 9sec slam, & without giving SB more than Nightshade CD
-Merc receive a rear snare, like BM(cd) and Zerk(hammer)
-Some any time styles with 0 hit bonus gain a to-hit-bonus
-VW 3 part side chain becomes 2part with slightly lesser delve
-Hib blunt gain some utility
-Sword/axe viablity
Again, my ideas above are just my opinion and solely that, some players may agree some may disagree. Some may was to add a few more, some might want to take away.
However, the above would be extremely easy to monitor from player base feedback - appose to a complete overhaul.
Had the Question on the survey read the following;
‘Would you like to see current style updated to the current live version of DAoC?’
I would have voted ‘NO’. And I think so would a lot of people.
So I feel Gruen comment on ‘what the fuck did you expect’ wasn't fair.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 7:53 PM
by
evert
tommccartney wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 7:46 PMWhen I filled out the survey, the Question read to me;
-‘Would you like to see ALL melee weapons Viable’.-
And I voted ‘Yes’.
To me, that meant; MOST already were viable, as we already know.
To make ‘ALL VIABLE’ then a few adjustments were needed, something along the lines of the following;
-Add a short positional stun to LA, since Zerks don’t get access to 9sec slam, & without giving SB more than Nightshade CD
-Merc receive a rear snare, like BM(cd) and Zerk(hammer)
-Some any time styles with 0 hit bonus gain a to-hit-bonus
-VW 3 part side chain becomes 2part with slightly lesser delve
-Hib blunt gain some utility
-Sword/axe viablity
Again, my ideas above are just my opinion and solely that, some players may agree some may disagree. Some may was to add a few more, some might want to take away.
However, the above would be extremely easy to monitor from player base feedback - appose to a complete overhaul.
Had the Question on the survey read the following;
‘Would you like to see current style updated to the current live version of DAoC?’
I would have voted ‘NO’. And I think so would a lot of people.
So I feel Gruen comment on ‘what the fuck did you expect’ wasn't fair.
Spot on. When I think of unviable specs I don’t think of vw/scythe, skald/hammer, stealthers/cs, etc. So I would never vote for a change to those. It’s kind of mind-boggling to suggest that people knew that’s what they were voting for.
People have been posting those ideas (or very similar ones) for ages, but of course what we all secretly want is a total revamp of melee classes
Fri 16 Oct 2020 8:09 PM
by
IdiamVonGawaine
tommccartney wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 7:46 PMHad the Question on the survey read the following;
‘Would you like to see current style updated to the current live version of DAoC?’
I would have voted ‘NO’. And I think so would a lot of people.
So I feel Gruen comment on ‘what the fuck did you expect’ wasn't fair.
Exactly.
If the Phoenix players enjoyed the features of the live server, they would be ON the live server.
They don't. I don't.
The RA suggestions they made mirrored the live server, were biased, unbalanced, and they were REJECTED outright by the Phoenix player base. The "style update" mirroed the live server, and amazingly enough, were also rejected by the Phoenix player base. Imagine that.
The simple style changes proposed by Tom in his post are exactly what I, and most reasonable people, would have expected, accepted, and enjoyed.
The dev team on this server has made MANY excellent improvements to the game via QoL, however, just as those good decisions are to be celebrated, so too should poor decisions be rejected. That's balance. That's healthy.
Sycophants in any community just make things worse for everyone, and should be ignored.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 8:25 PM
by
Blitze
I think carrying on with the current set-up with so many redundant style lines is stupid, (and i don't even play Midgard hammer hammer hammer realm).
The amount of hate spouted towards the staffs for proposed changes is not fair at all in my opinion...
They have made so many improvements on 1.65 here and the ones that haven't been a success have been reverted (e.g. crit variance).
Changing the styles is a great idea overall. that much the community agrees upon (probably because the current system is stale and offers too many cookie cutter specs). Perhaps the initial idea went too far and was obviously too much for vocal people to stomach.
A message to the staff, please don't give up!
(I don't understand why the community distrusts and is so worried that a something overpowered or underpowered will stay that way forever.)
The amount of hate spouted towards the staffs for proposed changes is not fair at all in my opinion...
They have made so many improvements on 1.65 here and the ones that haven't been a success have been reverted (e.g. crit variance).
Changing the styles is a great idea overall. that much the community agrees upon (probably because the current system is stale and offers too many cookie cutter specs). Perhaps the initial idea went too far and was obviously too much for vocal people to stomach.
A message to the staff, please don't give up!
(I don't understand why the community distrusts and is so worried that a something overpowered or underpowered will stay that way forever.)
Fri 16 Oct 2020 8:42 PM
by
PoisonClovers
Everyone I've talked to is bummed out over this not getting implemented. Me included. People have pissed off the people who donate their time to giving you some kind of pleasure. As if they where never going to fine tune or tweak based on feed back.. you all messed up this time.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 8:52 PM
by
tommccartney
thirian24 wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:16 PMHigach wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:11 PMBradekes wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:05 PMHigach wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:01 PMNah dawg. What people wanted was for the useless melee lines to get a little love. What was proposed was a complete overhaul to all melee styles in the game.
OF COURSE that's how people would react. To expect any different is completely asinine.
People with this type of thought process are going to kill the server. The devs were trying to find a DOABLE solution to the problem. Your expectations were too high for a small team to rebuild the whole style library by themselves. Live styles aren't perfect and they never said they were implementing them and that was that. They instead said they would implement them and test the waters. Also give everyone free respect to try things out. Now we get nothing and we're not better off because of it.
1) Quit acting like it requires them to adjust 1300 styles. They could tweak literally 10 styles and make a world of difference.
2) If the only possible option was completely revamp the styles that's fine. Put that up to a vote and be honest. Let everyone ahead of time know "Hey due to limitations, these are the only two options, please vote if you'd want to see styles 2.0 overhaul everything, or keep it as is." But they didn't. They never do that hence the massive negativity. Again, anyone should have seen this reaction coming a mile away with how it was handled.
I agree Higach 100%
And Bradekes, how can you not see that with those changes, there will be NEW BETTER SPEC LINES. Just like now, there are more preferable spec lines. The same would be true if they did style overhaul. That would mean, for many many people, changes their current spec to a new one.. which means a new template. Its not just simply respecing and trying something new.
I hate the fact I totally agree with you
Fri 16 Oct 2020 9:15 PM
by
DinoTriz
It's any wonder why the devs don't throw their hands up and say "Fuck this" and abandon the project.
People flipped out over this upcoming change.
Was I totally on board? No, but I was trying to keep an open mind about it.
People need to ease up on the Devs. For real.
Now, I do think people still want style changes.
1. Mercs need a back snare (or side snare, I don't remember)
2. Make weapon lines compete with Hammer in Mid.
3. I've heard VWs want a decent Anytime (don't know if it's urgent though)
4. Replace 'After Block' styles on classes that can't spec Shield
5. Maybe allow Warden to spec Shield? Or better weapon styles
I'm probably forgetting more but that would be a good start.
People flipped out over this upcoming change.
Was I totally on board? No, but I was trying to keep an open mind about it.
People need to ease up on the Devs. For real.
Now, I do think people still want style changes.
1. Mercs need a back snare (or side snare, I don't remember)
2. Make weapon lines compete with Hammer in Mid.
3. I've heard VWs want a decent Anytime (don't know if it's urgent though)
4. Replace 'After Block' styles on classes that can't spec Shield
5. Maybe allow Warden to spec Shield? Or better weapon styles
I'm probably forgetting more but that would be a good start.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 9:23 PM
by
Noashakra
tommccartney wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 7:46 PMWhen I filled out the survey, the Question read to me;
-‘Would you like to see ALL melee weapons Viable’.-
And I voted ‘Yes’.
To me, that meant; MOST already were viable, as we already know.
To make ‘ALL VIABLE’ then a few adjustments were needed, something along the lines of the following;
-Add a short positional stun to LA, since Zerks don’t get access to 9sec slam, & without giving SB more than Nightshade CD
-Merc receive a rear snare, like BM(cd) and Zerk(hammer)
-Some any time styles with 0 hit bonus gain a to-hit-bonus
-VW 3 part side chain becomes 2part with slightly lesser delve
-Hib blunt gain some utility
-Sword/axe viablity
Again, my ideas above are just my opinion and solely that, some players may agree some may disagree. Some may was to add a few more, some might want to take away.
However, the above would be extremely easy to monitor from player base feedback - appose to a complete overhaul.
Had the Question on the survey read the following;
‘Would you like to see current style updated to the current live version of DAoC?’
I would have voted ‘NO’. And I think so would a lot of people.
So I feel Gruen comment on ‘what the fuck did you expect’ wasn't fair.
This is exactly what most people thought would happen.
People are not against changes, they are against changes that would break the fragile balance of the game.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 9:30 PM
by
Tyrlaan
Like somebody wrote in the other thread, style lines are at the core of all melee/hybrid classes.
Completely changing them instead of tweaking a style here or there (adding a snare, some to hit bonus, maybe a DD proc for Thanes or the like, the already implemented changes to bleeds went that direction as well) would completely change those classes which people have played for years now. Which people know for their abilities from many years of DAoC experience. I for one never experienced 1.91 styles on live and I´m glad I didn´t.
It´s the same as if spell lines were shuffled or re-built from scratch for casters to a point where people don´t recognize them anymore and get something completely different than they´d expect from playing in the past (live necromancer anyone). And I thought this server was to be home to some DAoC nostalgia.
So I´m not surprised by the negative feedback. There´s changes and there´s playing an entirely different game.
Completely changing them instead of tweaking a style here or there (adding a snare, some to hit bonus, maybe a DD proc for Thanes or the like, the already implemented changes to bleeds went that direction as well) would completely change those classes which people have played for years now. Which people know for their abilities from many years of DAoC experience. I for one never experienced 1.91 styles on live and I´m glad I didn´t.
It´s the same as if spell lines were shuffled or re-built from scratch for casters to a point where people don´t recognize them anymore and get something completely different than they´d expect from playing in the past (live necromancer anyone). And I thought this server was to be home to some DAoC nostalgia.
So I´m not surprised by the negative feedback. There´s changes and there´s playing an entirely different game.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 9:47 PM
by
easytoremember
What??Bradekes wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:05 PMPeople with this type of thought process are going to kill the server. The devs were trying to find a DOABLE solution to the problem. Your expectations were too high for a small team to rebuild the whole style library by themselves. Live styles aren't perfect and they never said they were implementing them and that was that. They instead said they would implement them and test the waters.Higach wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:01 PMNah dawg. What people wanted was for the useless melee lines to get a little love. What was proposed was a complete overhaul to all melee styles in the game.
OF COURSE that's how people would react. To expect any different is completely asinine.
How did you leap from thatHigach wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:01 PMWhat people wanted was for the useless melee lines to get a little love.
-to that?Bradekes wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:05 PMYour expectations were too high for a small team to rebuild the whole style library by themselves.
uh lol we're better off as is than copying live
Fri 16 Oct 2020 9:48 PM
by
tommccartney
DinoTriz wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 9:15 PMIt's any wonder why the devs don't throw their hands up and say "Fuck this" and abandon the project.
People flipped out over this upcoming change.
Was I totally on board? No, but I was trying to keep an open mind about it.
People need to ease up on the Devs. For real.
Now, I do think people still want style changes.
1. Mercs need a back snare (or side snare, I don't remember)
2. Make weapon lines compete with Hammer in Mid.
3. I've heard VWs want a decent Anytime (don't know if it's urgent though)
4. Replace 'After Block' styles on classes that can't spec Shield
5. Maybe allow Warden to spec Shield? Or better weapon styles
I'm probably forgetting more but that would be a good start.
You’re suggestions are the type of changes that should be considered.
But instead we were told we were getting a total overhaul of styles which is what triggered the player base reaction the way it did.
It is always the same on this server, when they implement changes it’s always 0-100mph.
When they buffed archer damage the first time. Instead of taking it easy and giving archers a small boost in damage and then adjusting accordingly, instead everyone was getting crit shot in rvr for 1000+ damage ....
Or the bleed styles change, not breaking mezz. Yeah great & I think everyone agreed on that. Fantastic change. But then ..
OH wait - bleeds can stack up to 200damage per tick, erm ok wtf ....... over the top again & no need.
These heavy approaches are what drives player patience to run thin I’m afraid.
Don’t get me wrong I love this server. And I’m so thankful for the world the Devs have built. I just wish they would take a more subtle approach when they implement changes, instead of stepping their foot to the floor each time.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 10:06 PM
by
DJ2000
With clearly too much time on my hand i just went through the entire "Style change thread" and wrote down some numbers.
*gruenes posts not counted *
~13 unique ppl seemed to be "ok" with the changes (2 went back and forth) usually posted 1-2x till it was locked.
~80 unique ppl seemed to be "against" the changes (2 went back and forth) the majority usually posted 1x but a minority of 10% did 3-5x
~35 unique ppl were rather "neutral" about the changes or did talk about related stuff. (explanations, questions etc.)
Not even close to the number that took part in the Survey or Vote or w/e you want to call it.
Any of this important or needed to be known? Nope, not at all.
*gruenes posts not counted *
~13 unique ppl seemed to be "ok" with the changes (2 went back and forth) usually posted 1-2x till it was locked.
~80 unique ppl seemed to be "against" the changes (2 went back and forth) the majority usually posted 1x but a minority of 10% did 3-5x
~35 unique ppl were rather "neutral" about the changes or did talk about related stuff. (explanations, questions etc.)
Not even close to the number that took part in the Survey or Vote or w/e you want to call it.
Any of this important or needed to be known? Nope, not at all.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 10:24 PM
by
Bobbahunter
Thank you for the effort. Thank you for your time
Baby steps please. You overwhelmed us with the proposed changes. I commend you for all the time you dedicate to make this Game better.
Sugar is sweet and I love it but to much sugar is not Healthy.
Baby steps please. You overwhelmed us with the proposed changes. I commend you for all the time you dedicate to make this Game better.
Sugar is sweet and I love it but to much sugar is not Healthy.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 10:29 PM
by
Lokkjim
What I understood the vote (Do you think all weapon lines should be viable in most play styles?) to mean was that the currently non-viable weapon lines would be brought up to the level of the currently viable lines.
I never expected that the currently viable weapon lines would be changed as well.
If the intention was to decide whether or not to change all the styles, the question should have been:
"Do you think ALL weapon lines should be changed to be viable with each other?"
I never expected that the currently viable weapon lines would be changed as well.
If the intention was to decide whether or not to change all the styles, the question should have been:
"Do you think ALL weapon lines should be changed to be viable with each other?"
Fri 16 Oct 2020 10:30 PM
by
easytoremember
My 8-year-old daughter read the responses to the proposed changes and was beside herself with rage. 'How could people not accept their good will and go along with the style rollout?' she said. I agreedPoisonClovers wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 8:42 PMEveryone I've talked to is bummed out over this not getting implemented. Me included. People have pissed off the people who donate their time to giving you some kind of pleasure. As if they where never going to fine tune or tweak based on feed back.. you all messed up this time.
Fri 16 Oct 2020 10:32 PM
by
Ibs
easytoremember wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 10:30 PMMy 8-year-old daughter read the responses to the proposed changes and was beside herself with rage. 'How could people not accept their good will and go along with the style rollout?' she said. I agreedPoisonClovers wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 8:42 PMEveryone I've talked to is bummed out over this not getting implemented. Me included. People have pissed off the people who donate their time to giving you some kind of pleasure. As if they where never going to fine tune or tweak based on feed back.. you all messed up this time.
And then everyone clapped! /R/thathappened
Fri 16 Oct 2020 10:38 PM
by
gotwqqd
Fix the 3 and 4 length chains by allowing skipping intermediate steps. But those need small buffs to promote possibly taking the chance for the full chain length.
Fix where needed lousy anytimes. Some classes don’t have a reliable one.
Then tweak some styles to make lines appropriate and logical uses
Fix where needed lousy anytimes. Some classes don’t have a reliable one.
Then tweak some styles to make lines appropriate and logical uses
Sat 17 Oct 2020 3:35 AM
by
darkstar00
Lux.Thoras wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:24 PMthirian24 wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:16 PMI agree Higach 100%
And Bradekes, how can you not see that with those changes, there will be NEW BETTER SPEC LINES. Just like now, there are more preferable spec lines. The same would be true if they did style overhaul. That would mean, for many many people, changes their current spec to a new one.. which means a new template. Its not just simply respecing and trying something new.
After, what I saw in the Charplaner, all the spec lines were updated and where competitive. Why should this mean someone has to change his specification? I could not see any reason why i would not use LargeWeapons or why Hammer is useless now or Pole is not competetive anymore.
I agree all spec lines seemed to be competitive. I only deep-dived into the assassin styles but all lines got some love, and CS was looking even more exciting with Ripper and the CS side style chain, especially for Nightshades that don't have LA/DW.
Edit: Yeah maybe some people would have to redo their temps... sort of a combo of not planning their suites properly or having the + melee skill not on the armor pieces IMO... my assassin temp is all + blades on the armor pieces so would need to redo those for pierce if ever doing that which I probably wasn't gonna do anyways.
Sat 17 Oct 2020 3:50 AM
by
Lokkjim
darkstar00 wrote: ↑Sat 17 Oct 2020 3:35 AMLux.Thoras wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:24 PMthirian24 wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 5:16 PMI agree Higach 100%
And Bradekes, how can you not see that with those changes, there will be NEW BETTER SPEC LINES. Just like now, there are more preferable spec lines. The same would be true if they did style overhaul. That would mean, for many many people, changes their current spec to a new one.. which means a new template. Its not just simply respecing and trying something new.
After, what I saw in the Charplaner, all the spec lines were updated and where competitive. Why should this mean someone has to change his specification? I could not see any reason why i would not use LargeWeapons or why Hammer is useless now or Pole is not competetive anymore.
I agree all spec lines seemed to be competitive. I only deep-dived into the assassin styles but all lines got some love, and CS was looking even more exciting with Ripper and the CS side style chain, especially for Nightshades that don't have LA/DW.
Edit: Yeah maybe some people would have to redo their temps... sort of a combo of not planning their suites properly or having the + melee skill not on the armor pieces IMO... my assassin temp is all + blades on the armor pieces so would need to redo those for pierce if ever doing that which I probably wasn't gonna do anyways.
Yah, it was looking kind of exciting until I saw garrote was no longer an anytime snare, and celtic dual gets a back AND side snare while DW/LA only get side snares. LA has it even worse as their snare is the 2nd part in a chain.
Edit: Left Axe gets a frontal snare, but again it's the 2nd part in a chain.
Sat 17 Oct 2020 7:40 AM
by
Noashakra
darkstar00 wrote: ↑Sat 17 Oct 2020 3:35 AMI agree all spec lines seemed to be competitive. I only deep-dived into the assassin styles but all lines got some love, and CS was looking even more exciting with Ripper and the CS side style chain, especially for Nightshades that don't have LA/DW.
Edit: Yeah maybe some people would have to redo their temps... sort of a combo of not planning their suites properly or having the + melee skill not on the armor pieces IMO... my assassin temp is all + blades on the armor pieces so would need to redo those for pierce if ever doing that which I probably wasn't gonna do anyways.
Yeah would have been great to straff all the the time to pass the side chain with insane dammage /s
I am sure NA player would be happy :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzjAoGsFnKc
On my screen he was not moving and facing the bridge...
Sat 17 Oct 2020 8:59 AM
by
Ceen
I couldnt care less about people with 20 chars needing to redo all templates. This is an mmo dont expect to maintain 20 chars.
Sat 17 Oct 2020 9:51 AM
by
labra
let's settle this, pull a survey with clear choices and we can get rid of this debate
Sat 17 Oct 2020 12:01 PM
by
Lux.Thoras
Most of you did not realize it or? We will not get any change or QoL improvements anymore due to this chaotic and stupid reactions on any change planned. Most of the answers and reactions in this forum are destructive instead of constructive.
The planned changes for the Styles where not final and cannot be compared to the live server.
The differences between the live and this server are much more than only the styles, but most of the live server updates have impact also on the playstyle. Those changes are not implemented on Phoenix. So, no one on this server ever tested how it would be with the new style system, but a lot of people seems to know how it will be.
Adjusting non viable stuff does not always mean to buff everything to the same level. It can also mean to nerf some other stuff to not get to high with alle the buffs you have to do to come to the same level. For example, some are crying about loosing an anytime snare. What would be if every melee get´s his anytime snare ? What would you estimate how people will cry about that ? I did not see any bigger impact for each of the existing classes, from my point of view. The opposite was the case, most of the lines got buffed compared to the actual system. But those who have at the moment an advantage, don´t want to loose it.
I play a Hero, Warrior, Armsman and Pala and i looked at all the Styles in the Charplaner and did not find any reason why to respec them or why i would be not viable anymore. Also for Merc and some others i thought it would be good change and improvement. Loosing the anytime snare from my Armsman was the only thing i have seen and this would be ok due to the win of the other stuff.
But i cannot judge this change, as i never saw it running on Phoenix and i will never be able to judge it now because it will not come. No one will every know if the change would have that huge impact as it was forseen by some "experts" in this forum.
The result is clear, no improvements anymore for everybody. Thanks to that.
The planned changes for the Styles where not final and cannot be compared to the live server.
The differences between the live and this server are much more than only the styles, but most of the live server updates have impact also on the playstyle. Those changes are not implemented on Phoenix. So, no one on this server ever tested how it would be with the new style system, but a lot of people seems to know how it will be.
Adjusting non viable stuff does not always mean to buff everything to the same level. It can also mean to nerf some other stuff to not get to high with alle the buffs you have to do to come to the same level. For example, some are crying about loosing an anytime snare. What would be if every melee get´s his anytime snare ? What would you estimate how people will cry about that ? I did not see any bigger impact for each of the existing classes, from my point of view. The opposite was the case, most of the lines got buffed compared to the actual system. But those who have at the moment an advantage, don´t want to loose it.
I play a Hero, Warrior, Armsman and Pala and i looked at all the Styles in the Charplaner and did not find any reason why to respec them or why i would be not viable anymore. Also for Merc and some others i thought it would be good change and improvement. Loosing the anytime snare from my Armsman was the only thing i have seen and this would be ok due to the win of the other stuff.
But i cannot judge this change, as i never saw it running on Phoenix and i will never be able to judge it now because it will not come. No one will every know if the change would have that huge impact as it was forseen by some "experts" in this forum.
The result is clear, no improvements anymore for everybody. Thanks to that.
Sat 17 Oct 2020 2:20 PM
by
LolaEbola
So, I just got done reading the 18 pages of discussion in the planned changes post, as well as this post, and I really don’t get where some of you are coming from. Maybe you can help me to understand.
There were certainly some people who’s complaints could’ve been worded more productively. I won’t deny that.
That said, there were plenty of examples of polite and constructive criticism that seem to have gone ignored. Personally, I’m opposed to this change, and I’m glad they decided not to go through with it.
That doesn’t mean that I don’t appreciate the devs overall. In fact, much to the contrary. I love this game, and specifically I love this server. If I, or anyone else, object to a proposed change, it’s because we have a lot of fun here and are passionate about it.
To add to that, I’ve found the responses of several of the GM’s to be really immature themselves. I can understand the frustration of a change you put work into being poorly received by the community. Really, I can.
But, rather than asking “what the fuck did you expect”? when many of us have explained exactly why we expected something different, or just taking your ball and going home with the repeated petty line of “fine! You don’t like this, so no more changes!”... I’d encourage them to think openly about why this was so poorly received.
Sure, some of us complain about just about everything. We all know that’s true. Some of us are purists who never want to see the game change at all, (Let’s not forget that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I don’t agree with the “no change” crowd, but that doesn’t make my opinion any more valid than theirs) but that’s not the case here.
Many people who I see on these forums routinely disagreeing and flaming eachother are all, for the most part, united here on this issue.
I’d encourage the GMs to take greater steps in the future to be as transparent and specific as possible, even if a survey question needs to be a whole paragraph long. That would go a long way towards preventing a similar situation going forward, rather than asking a rather vague question and when changes are announced that clearly a large portion of the community was not expecting, asking us “what the fuck did you expect”?
With all due respect, some of the player base could’ve handled this better, but literally every GM with the exception of Beckett that I’ve seen comment on things could’ve also handled this much better.
I’m simply disappointed with some of the messaging I’ve seen here and on discord from Uthred, Saibaba, and Gruenes. I can understand where the frustration comes from, and to be clear, I appreciate all the work you guys put in. But, I would plead for you to be more receptive and open to criticism in the future.
There were certainly some people who’s complaints could’ve been worded more productively. I won’t deny that.
That said, there were plenty of examples of polite and constructive criticism that seem to have gone ignored. Personally, I’m opposed to this change, and I’m glad they decided not to go through with it.
That doesn’t mean that I don’t appreciate the devs overall. In fact, much to the contrary. I love this game, and specifically I love this server. If I, or anyone else, object to a proposed change, it’s because we have a lot of fun here and are passionate about it.
To add to that, I’ve found the responses of several of the GM’s to be really immature themselves. I can understand the frustration of a change you put work into being poorly received by the community. Really, I can.
But, rather than asking “what the fuck did you expect”? when many of us have explained exactly why we expected something different, or just taking your ball and going home with the repeated petty line of “fine! You don’t like this, so no more changes!”... I’d encourage them to think openly about why this was so poorly received.
Sure, some of us complain about just about everything. We all know that’s true. Some of us are purists who never want to see the game change at all, (Let’s not forget that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I don’t agree with the “no change” crowd, but that doesn’t make my opinion any more valid than theirs) but that’s not the case here.
Many people who I see on these forums routinely disagreeing and flaming eachother are all, for the most part, united here on this issue.
I’d encourage the GMs to take greater steps in the future to be as transparent and specific as possible, even if a survey question needs to be a whole paragraph long. That would go a long way towards preventing a similar situation going forward, rather than asking a rather vague question and when changes are announced that clearly a large portion of the community was not expecting, asking us “what the fuck did you expect”?
With all due respect, some of the player base could’ve handled this better, but literally every GM with the exception of Beckett that I’ve seen comment on things could’ve also handled this much better.
I’m simply disappointed with some of the messaging I’ve seen here and on discord from Uthred, Saibaba, and Gruenes. I can understand where the frustration comes from, and to be clear, I appreciate all the work you guys put in. But, I would plead for you to be more receptive and open to criticism in the future.
Sat 17 Oct 2020 3:22 PM
by
Higach
LolaEbola wrote: ↑Sat 17 Oct 2020 2:20 PMSo, I just got done reading the 18 pages of discussion in the planned changes post, as well as this post, and I really don’t get where some of you are coming from. Maybe you can help me to understand.
There were certainly some people who’s complaints could’ve been worded more productively. I won’t deny that.
That said, there were plenty of examples of polite and constructive criticism that seem to have gone ignored. Personally, I’m opposed to this change, and I’m glad they decided not to go through with it.
That doesn’t mean that I don’t appreciate the devs overall. In fact, much to the contrary. I love this game, and specifically I love this server. If I, or anyone else, object to a proposed change, it’s because we have a lot of fun here and are passionate about it.
To add to that, I’ve found the responses of several of the GM’s to be really immature themselves. I can understand the frustration of a change you put work into being poorly received by the community. Really, I can.
But, rather than asking “what the fuck did you expect”? when many of us have explained exactly why we expected something different, or just taking your ball and going home with the repeated petty line of “fine! You don’t like this, so no more changes!”... I’d encourage them to think openly about why this was so poorly received.
Sure, some of us complain about just about everything. We all know that’s true. Some of us are purists who never want to see the game change at all, (Let’s not forget that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I don’t agree with the “no change” crowd, but that doesn’t make my opinion any more valid than theirs) but that’s not the case here.
Many people who I see on these forums routinely disagreeing and flaming eachother are all, for the most part, united here on this issue.
I’d encourage the GMs to take greater steps in the future to be as transparent and specific as possible, even if a survey question needs to be a whole paragraph long. That would go a long way towards preventing a similar situation going forward, rather than asking a rather vague question and when changes are announced that clearly a large portion of the community was not expecting, asking us “what the fuck did you expect”?
With all due respect, some of the player base could’ve handled this better, but literally every GM with the exception of Beckett that I’ve seen comment on things could’ve also handled this much better.
I’m simply disappointed with some of the messaging I’ve seen here and on discord from Uthred, Saibaba, and Gruenes. I can understand where the frustration comes from, and to be clear, I appreciate all the work you guys put in. But, I would plead for you to be more receptive and open to criticism in the future.
Its not just here, its pretty much everywhere. Unfortunately we live in a world where people don't decouple negativity or criticism of an idea from personal attacks.
You can't express that you think an idea is bad without then being considered disrespectful, ungrateful, not showing appreciation to the devs who do it for free etc. Not allowed to disagree, or else you're toxic, a hater, a troll etc. Its a ridiculous concept that contradicts the supposed community driven vision of this server.
You can go the route of camelot unchained and just delete and ban any feedback that isn't complete praise to create a meaningless echo chamber of whatyou want to hear, OR you grow thick skin and realize when there's huge negative backlash about something its not because they are not appreciated, its because lots of people think the idea blows. Its a part of life especially in games. Not every idea is a winner and sometimes people are gonna call your baby ugly. Pouting because you had 2 big fat duds in a row is silly.
Sat 17 Oct 2020 3:54 PM
by
Shamissa
Totally agreed with you Loola, they were totally immature and that disencourage players to keep going. Experience from Uthgard the server went down in 2 months because of the same problem.LolaEbola wrote: ↑Sat 17 Oct 2020 2:20 PMSo, I just got done reading the 18 pages of discussion in the planned changes post, as well as this post, and I really don’t get where some of you are coming from. Maybe you can help me to understand.
There were certainly some people who’s complaints could’ve been worded more productively. I won’t deny that.
That said, there were plenty of examples of polite and constructive criticism that seem to have gone ignored. Personally, I’m opposed to this change, and I’m glad they decided not to go through with it.
That doesn’t mean that I don’t appreciate the devs overall. In fact, much to the contrary. I love this game, and specifically I love this server. If I, or anyone else, object to a proposed change, it’s because we have a lot of fun here and are passionate about it.
To add to that, I’ve found the responses of several of the GM’s to be really immature themselves. I can understand the frustration of a change you put work into being poorly received by the community. Really, I can.
But, rather than asking “what the fuck did you expect”? when many of us have explained exactly why we expected something different, or just taking your ball and going home with the repeated petty line of “fine! You don’t like this, so no more changes!”... I’d encourage them to think openly about why this was so poorly received.
Sure, some of us complain about just about everything. We all know that’s true. Some of us are purists who never want to see the game change at all, (Let’s not forget that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I don’t agree with the “no change” crowd, but that doesn’t make my opinion any more valid than theirs) but that’s not the case here.
Many people who I see on these forums routinely disagreeing and flaming eachother are all, for the most part, united here on this issue.
I’d encourage the GMs to take greater steps in the future to be as transparent and specific as possible, even if a survey question needs to be a whole paragraph long. That would go a long way towards preventing a similar situation going forward, rather than asking a rather vague question and when changes are announced that clearly a large portion of the community was not expecting, asking us “what the fuck did you expect”?
With all due respect, some of the player base could’ve handled this better, but literally every GM with the exception of Beckett that I’ve seen comment on things could’ve also handled this much better.
I’m simply disappointed with some of the messaging I’ve seen here and on discord from Uthred, Saibaba, and Gruenes. I can understand where the frustration comes from, and to be clear, I appreciate all the work you guys put in. But, I would plead for you to be more receptive and open to criticism in the future.
Sat 17 Oct 2020 7:14 PM
by
Forlornhope
LolaEbola wrote: ↑Sat 17 Oct 2020 2:20 PMSo, I just got done reading the 18 pages of discussion in the planned changes post, as well as this post, and I really don’t get where some of you are coming from. Maybe you can help me to understand.
There were certainly some people who’s complaints could’ve been worded more productively. I won’t deny that.
That said, there were plenty of examples of polite and constructive criticism that seem to have gone ignored. Personally, I’m opposed to this change, and I’m glad they decided not to go through with it.
That doesn’t mean that I don’t appreciate the devs overall. In fact, much to the contrary. I love this game, and specifically I love this server. If I, or anyone else, object to a proposed change, it’s because we have a lot of fun here and are passionate about it.
To add to that, I’ve found the responses of several of the GM’s to be really immature themselves. I can understand the frustration of a change you put work into being poorly received by the community. Really, I can.
But, rather than asking “what the fuck did you expect”? when many of us have explained exactly why we expected something different, or just taking your ball and going home with the repeated petty line of “fine! You don’t like this, so no more changes!”... I’d encourage them to think openly about why this was so poorly received.
Sure, some of us complain about just about everything. We all know that’s true. Some of us are purists who never want to see the game change at all, (Let’s not forget that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I don’t agree with the “no change” crowd, but that doesn’t make my opinion any more valid than theirs) but that’s not the case here.
Many people who I see on these forums routinely disagreeing and flaming eachother are all, for the most part, united here on this issue.
I’d encourage the GMs to take greater steps in the future to be as transparent and specific as possible, even if a survey question needs to be a whole paragraph long. That would go a long way towards preventing a similar situation going forward, rather than asking a rather vague question and when changes are announced that clearly a large portion of the community was not expecting, asking us “what the fuck did you expect”?
With all due respect, some of the player base could’ve handled this better, but literally every GM with the exception of Beckett that I’ve seen comment on things could’ve also handled this much better.
I’m simply disappointed with some of the messaging I’ve seen here and on discord from Uthred, Saibaba, and Gruenes. I can understand where the frustration comes from, and to be clear, I appreciate all the work you guys put in. But, I would plead for you to be more receptive and open to criticism in the future.
You must have missed all the flaming in conversations in the discord. It wasn't just here people were complaining, and the comments in the discord were much worse than here.
Sat 17 Oct 2020 7:52 PM
by
gotwqqd
I think everyone thought the team would put in some (a few per line) custom tweaks ...not a complete overhaul of all lines
Sat 17 Oct 2020 8:13 PM
by
LolaEbola
Forlornhope wrote: ↑Sat 17 Oct 2020 7:14 PMLolaEbola wrote: ↑Sat 17 Oct 2020 2:20 PMSo, I just got done reading the 18 pages of discussion in the planned changes post, as well as this post, and I really don’t get where some of you are coming from. Maybe you can help me to understand.
There were certainly some people who’s complaints could’ve been worded more productively. I won’t deny that.
That said, there were plenty of examples of polite and constructive criticism that seem to have gone ignored. Personally, I’m opposed to this change, and I’m glad they decided not to go through with it.
That doesn’t mean that I don’t appreciate the devs overall. In fact, much to the contrary. I love this game, and specifically I love this server. If I, or anyone else, object to a proposed change, it’s because we have a lot of fun here and are passionate about it.
To add to that, I’ve found the responses of several of the GM’s to be really immature themselves. I can understand the frustration of a change you put work into being poorly received by the community. Really, I can.
But, rather than asking “what the fuck did you expect”? when many of us have explained exactly why we expected something different, or just taking your ball and going home with the repeated petty line of “fine! You don’t like this, so no more changes!”... I’d encourage them to think openly about why this was so poorly received.
Sure, some of us complain about just about everything. We all know that’s true. Some of us are purists who never want to see the game change at all, (Let’s not forget that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I don’t agree with the “no change” crowd, but that doesn’t make my opinion any more valid than theirs) but that’s not the case here.
Many people who I see on these forums routinely disagreeing and flaming eachother are all, for the most part, united here on this issue.
I’d encourage the GMs to take greater steps in the future to be as transparent and specific as possible, even if a survey question needs to be a whole paragraph long. That would go a long way towards preventing a similar situation going forward, rather than asking a rather vague question and when changes are announced that clearly a large portion of the community was not expecting, asking us “what the fuck did you expect”?
With all due respect, some of the player base could’ve handled this better, but literally every GM with the exception of Beckett that I’ve seen comment on things could’ve also handled this much better.
I’m simply disappointed with some of the messaging I’ve seen here and on discord from Uthred, Saibaba, and Gruenes. I can understand where the frustration comes from, and to be clear, I appreciate all the work you guys put in. But, I would plead for you to be more receptive and open to criticism in the future.
You must have missed all the flaming in conversations in the discord. It wasn't just here people were complaining, and the comments in the discord were much worse than here.
No, I actually didn’t miss anything. I was at work that day, but I spent close to an hour when I got home reading the entire discussion in discord. I did address that in my comment.
Sat 17 Oct 2020 8:37 PM
by
inoeth
Roto23 wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 3:34 PMWe all do appreciate all the work you do and I know many express that by donating. You sounded a bit angry so I figured I chime in and let you know many of us really appreciate what you guys do. And appreciate that you do listen to us.
thx to the handfull idiots that block every progress
Sat 17 Oct 2020 9:28 PM
by
easytoremember
The feeling you're going to experience rediscovering your old posts a decade from now is going to physically injure you
Sat 17 Oct 2020 9:47 PM
by
inoeth
even 15 years ago i appreciateded every change that was made to this game and i still think all the changes were good!
im not a person that thinks change is bad!
Sat 17 Oct 2020 10:16 PM
by
Lokkjim
inoeth wrote: ↑Sat 17 Oct 2020 9:47 PM
even 15 years ago i appreciateded every change that was made to this game and i still think all the changes were good!
im not a person that thinks change is bad!
Yet you're here instead of the live server? How does that make sense? And if it's because the playerbase on live is too small, then don't you think this server would go the same route if it had all those changes? So you want this server to die too?
Sun 18 Oct 2020 7:48 AM
by
inoeth
well the difference which you obviously dont want to see is that phoenix far aways from being live and def needs some adjustments to styles.
Sun 18 Oct 2020 5:27 PM
by
Lokkjim
inoeth wrote: ↑Sun 18 Oct 2020 7:48 AMwell the difference which you obviously dont want to see is that phoenix far aways from being live and def needs some adjustments to styles.
I agree that the styles do need some adjustments, but your opinion of liking everything that the live server did needs a little tempering.
Mon 19 Oct 2020 7:10 AM
by
Sepplord
That's moving the goalpost though.inoeth wrote: ↑Sun 18 Oct 2020 7:48 AMwell the difference which you obviously dont want to see is that phoenix far aways from being live and def needs some adjustments to styles.
You just claimed that you appreciate any change ever done to DAoC, and under that context it is weird you would play on a server that reverted tons of those highly appreciates changes?
I disagree that all change is bad, but claiming all change is good is just as bonkers.
The issue isn't that some people don't want a change, or even any change at all. The issue is the way people argue and express their opinions.
There seems to be no grey, even you felt the need to go all in and claim that all changes are appreciated by you, to counter the extreme opposing position (aka all changes are bad) you feel is expressed too often here.
Mon 19 Oct 2020 11:57 AM
by
inoeth
well i should have said that i stoped playing live in 2011, therefore i dont really know how it is there right now. but to the point i stoped there (was because GOA closed the doors and i did not have a credit card to pay in the US) i liked all the new stuff, it made the game feel somewhat new from time to time. new challenges, new stuff to defend against, new opportunities.
i liked toa, i liked cata, i liked si.... tbh classic daoc is really boring, i only switched to "classic" servers because there is no alternative, not because im a hardcore classic fan.
you might say now "go play live" yeah i would actually do that if the server was somewhat playable in EU times, but its not.
on the other hand i could also say "go play the "classic" alternative" , but nobody is there too for a reason. so the good thing about phoenix is thats it combines classic stuff with newer stuff.
i liked toa, i liked cata, i liked si.... tbh classic daoc is really boring, i only switched to "classic" servers because there is no alternative, not because im a hardcore classic fan.
you might say now "go play live" yeah i would actually do that if the server was somewhat playable in EU times, but its not.
on the other hand i could also say "go play the "classic" alternative" , but nobody is there too for a reason. so the good thing about phoenix is thats it combines classic stuff with newer stuff.
Mon 19 Oct 2020 4:59 PM
by
Dsai
FOr the most part was looking forward to changes. Its what we voted for.
Tue 20 Oct 2020 9:52 AM
by
Noashakra
Dsai wrote: ↑Mon 19 Oct 2020 4:59 PMFOr the most part was looking forward to changes. Its what we voted for.
No we didn't.
"Do you think we should reform the public health care system? Ok you voted yes? Ok so here is our plan, we will go 100% private!"
People will be manifesting if something like this would happen.
Do you think all weapon lines should be viable in most play styles?
It's not the same as "Do you think we should overhaul the whole melee style sytem?"
People saying it's the same and we should have know are aguying in bad faith. It's NOT the question that was asked.
Tue 20 Oct 2020 10:17 AM
by
easytoremember
That makes sense. Mythic was running the game still until around 2014. That's when Broadsword showed up>inoeth wrote: ↑Mon 19 Oct 2020 11:57 AMwell i should have said that i stoped playing live in 2011, therefore i dont really know how it is there right now. but to the point i stoped there (was because GOA closed the doors and i did not have a credit card to pay in the US) i liked all the new stuff, it made the game feel somewhat new from time to time. new challenges, new stuff to defend against, new opportunities.
i liked toa, i liked cata, i liked si.... tbh classic daoc is really boring, i only switched to "classic" servers because there is no alternative, not because im a hardcore classic fan.
you might say now "go play live" yeah i would actually do that if the server was somewhat playable in EU times, but its not.
on the other hand i could also say "go play the "classic" alternative" , but nobody is there too for a reason. so the good thing about phoenix is thats it combines classic stuff with newer stuff.
EA has a talent for ruining games they touch but they've got nothing on BS
Wed 28 Oct 2020 9:38 PM
by
Tubby
Roto23 wrote: ↑Fri 16 Oct 2020 3:34 PMWe all do appreciate all the work you do and I know many express that by donating. You sounded a bit angry so I figured I chime in and let you know many of us really appreciate what you guys do. And appreciate that you do listen to us.
This massively thank you op for creating this
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