Slam on NON-Fulltanks is the biggest imbalance on this server

Started 23 Aug 2019
by Muse
in RvR
I know this Topic already exists, but since i didnt find any statement of a GM if its gonna be rejected or not, think ist time to discuss that Topic again, because slam on non fulltanks brings one of the most Imbalance. I know every class is different, this is not a Mirror game. To be fair, Maybe i notice this Imbalance because im running solo up to 4man 90% of the time, but I think you shouldnt get punished and die in a slam if you dont have purge or dont have acess to an anytime stun.

I am playin a thane, champ and savage atm (rr6-rr7). At the Moment i am runnin my champ, Of Cours the debuffs are really strong, but allowing this class to have Access to a 9s anytime stun is retarded. Same goes for reavers, i faced a lot classes (bds/necros etc) but reaver is one of the classes where you are literally dead if you dont have purge.
When i was roaming on my savage f.e. against bms and mercs, even in a 2v2, they literally destroyed me in one slam just because i dont have purge up. So the fight is over if i dont wait in my realmkeep for purge. This is not fun tbh because it brings People to camp the realm timers because nearly every class in alb/hib that roams has Access to slam. I dont care to die at all in RvR, i just think ist completely broken if you dont even get the Chance to giv the Opponent a fight.

Pros of a reduced stun timer:
-reduced stun immunity = 45s compared to 25s immunity is a long time. If you purge a 5s slam you have the Chance to stun People again before dieing, which can Change the end of a fight if you have dont have purge up and the enemy does

-spec variations = especially bms and mercs get the possibility to do splitspecs. At the Moment a 9s anytime stun is too powerful to give this up for 10% more Damage. Same goes for Champs, thanes etc (f.e. 35 shields, 23 shields)

-tactics in fights = at the Moment People are stupidly slamming all the Targets they face. This brings a no brain Gameplay for most tanks and also a free stun immunity in the most fights which can be a pain. I myself numb a lot and 90% purge it so i really dont care if they purge my 2s stun. but after the 10s i can slam again for 9s where the chances are really really low the enemy survives

-longer and more interesting fights = especially in smallman, the 9s slam hits you the hardest. the fights are literally over when you get slammed and dont have purge up

- pushing fulltanks = of Course fulltanks are in every grp or 8man, but this is a unique Thing because they dont have anything that pushes them over lighttanks.

The pros above have an Impact on solo up to smallman the most of Course, 8mans Maybe not that influenced by that Change but well, every grp runs aatleast one fulltank so there is always Access to a 9s slam.
I would like to see some statments of other Players regarding the slam on non fulltanks and their expirience. My opinion is that a Change of this would make the RvR a bit more interesting again. Sure most of the offtankplayers will say thats a bad idea, but well, i Play a class with this Benefit and i support that Change because i would like to see some more balance.

ß
Fri 23 Aug 2019 4:34 AM by ExcretusMaximus
Yeah, having tools against those 4 and 5 caster debuff trains is totally imbalanced. I mean, it's not like one debuff and one cast from each of those guys doesn't instantly drop anything that doesn't have a DI buffer up, they clearly need more tools to deal with light tanks.

Also...

Muse wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 2:52 AM
you shouldnt get punished and die in a slam if you dont have purge


Yes, you certainly should; if you're taking unmitigated damage for 9 seconds, you 100% should die without heals.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 6:31 AM by Kemoauc
Wouldn't that make your problem worse in solo and small man?

If the fight goes longer than 30 secs you get stunned twice for 10 seconds total and you can only purge half of it.

A 9 sec stun gives me 3 free 2handed hits on a target. Two 5 sec stuns would give me 4 free 2handed hits
Fri 23 Aug 2019 6:43 AM by Sepplord
while i agree that fulltanks are a bit underwhelming to play i am unsure if removing/nerfing slam on everyone else is a good idea...

a) melee are already worse than casters

b) scouts especially do not need a nerf but would get caught in such a change too

Making fulltanks special / more appealing can be done through different means, though i don't think i am capable of making well balanced suggestions regarding this as it could also push them over the top in 8vs8
Fri 23 Aug 2019 7:15 AM by Killaloth
Muse wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 2:52 AM
I am playin a thane, champ and savage atm

o.O

So you are playing the best melees you can have in a smallman both of which have access to static tempest for 9+9=18 secs stun. And you are complaining ab 9secs slam? Please fix ST stun immunity instead perhaps?

And you have a savage, the highest melee dps in the game that isn't as good as others in smallman but can 1-shot casters.

The RvR and suggestions section is already littered with any kind of rant threads, let's be more creative with complaints guys!

Plz bump the BM slam rant thread, there is a funny reply at the end of it that you might want to read again

PS in smallman shorter stun duration is king. Valewalkers are much stronger. Short stun + high positional dps = GG

PS2 you die coz of BMs snares not coz of slams
Fri 23 Aug 2019 7:35 AM by Muse
Yes im playin them. And thats why i know how retarded Slam on such Hybrid Classes is. And no, i die in a Slam Not because of the Snare.

@kemy i Personally think i wouldnt purge a 5s stun when i have f.e. Healpots up.

Well anyway it was just a thoigght, ofc the bm only Player complains the Most and trolls the Most.

Seems its inly me who Thinks a Reduced Slam duration is a up to certain situations
Fri 23 Aug 2019 7:37 AM by Sepplord
Killaloth wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 7:15 AM
Muse wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 2:52 AM
I am playin a thane, champ and savage atm

o.O

So you are playing the best melees you can have in a smallman both of which have access to static tempest for 9+9=18 secs stun. And you are complaining ab 9secs slam? Please fix ST stun immunity instead perhaps?


to be fair, he is advocating to nerf 2 of his 3 classes
That doesn't immediatly validate his suggestion, but we can't claim he is just biased and wants to nerf what he isn't playing
Fri 23 Aug 2019 8:36 AM by Wooshh
Just nerf thane champ savage
Fri 23 Aug 2019 8:38 AM by Aph
The game is NOT balanced around duels. Topic over. Champ would be useless without shield spec in rvr.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 9:00 AM by REVOLTE
Wooshh wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 8:36 AM
Just nerf thane champ savage

why not reaver?
ive never seen you using slam anyway.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 9:05 AM by Wooshh
REVOLTE wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 9:00 AM
Wooshh wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 8:36 AM
Just nerf thane champ savage

why not reaver?
ive never seen you using slam anyway.

difficult to slam while i m playing animist

Since you never saw my slam i assume you died after my numb
Fri 23 Aug 2019 10:14 AM by Uthred
Please stop the insults and stay on topic. Thx.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 11:42 AM by Killaloth
Muse wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 7:35 AM
Yes im playin them. And thats why i know how retarded Slam on such Hybrid Classes is. And no, i die in a Slam Not because of the Snare.

@kemy i Personally think i wouldnt purge a 5s stun when i have f.e. Healpots up.

Well anyway it was just a thoigght, ofc the bm only Player complains the Most and trolls the Most.

Seems its inly me who Thinks a Reduced Slam duration is a up to certain situations

Sorry I had just woken up and didn't read properly.

The issue is that you die within a slam if you run with exactly which class and from which non full tank?

I can die from a 5L savage backstun before the effects ends. "Happy" ab that considering low overall class utility.

BMs:
Sub 5L shamans, ministrels and skalds are the only non-casters that I can drop from full life to 0 within a slam. (pierce spec).

Mercs:
Share your knowledge on which classes you can kill within a slam if you play one.

Champs/Thanes:
The stun immunity reset after ST is a tiny bit OP and it's the only thing I would change. Impressed by the absence of whine topics about this but it won't be the BM player to start one.

Plz open 3 more threads about Mercs, Champs and Thanes, the BM one was pretty entertaining!
Fri 23 Aug 2019 12:59 PM by Roto23
Are tanks and lt tanks having it so easy out there that they need a nerf? I'm seeing that caster grps are dominant.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 1:08 PM by ExcretusMaximus
Roto23 wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 12:59 PM
caster grps are dominant.


That's because caster trains are broken here, in all three realms (Mids just refuse to run them).
Fri 23 Aug 2019 1:40 PM by Kaziera
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 1:08 PM
Roto23 wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 12:59 PM
caster grps are dominant.


That's because caster trains are broken here, in all three realms (Mids just refuse to run them).

No. Mid caster setup is just subpar. In comparison to albs it lacks pets and range. And in comparison to hib it lacks pets.

Ot: taking utility of a tank that isnt played very often is a bad Decision imo.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 1:57 PM by ExcretusMaximus
Kaziera wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 1:40 PM
No. Mid caster setup is just subpar. In comparison to albs it lacks pets and range. And in comparison to hib it lacks pets.

Ot: taking utility of a tank that isnt played very often is a bad Decision imo.


Runemaster, Runemaster, SM, BD.

Pets, nearsight, and debuffs.

Mids are just stubborn and refuse to believe it's possible, just like what you posted.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 3:06 PM by jelzinga_EU
Killaloth wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 11:42 AM
The issue is that you die within a slam if you run with exactly which class and from which non full tank?

I can die from a 5L savage backstun before the effects ends. "Happy" ab that considering low overall class utility.

How? The stun is 4 seconds ?

Killaloth wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 11:42 AM
BMs:
Sub 5L shamans, ministrels and skalds are the only non-casters that I can drop from full life to 0 within a slam. (pierce spec).

Shaman and Healer are on same table HP-wise, so they would go too. Scouts would go too, since they are lower than minstrel armor-wise. Shaman and Cleric are on same weakness and armor-table, so clerics go too. Skalds are essentially on same HP-table as reaver and thane, so add them to the list too. I would reckon a SB might die as well and Hunter is just on the brink of death, so roughly in a slam you kill everything in Mid but warrior, savage and zerk....

Thing is - if you are solo you need to have Purge up to fight a slam-class. It might be balanced in a FG/8vs8 but for solo'ing if you play a Slam-class you have an I-win against enemies without Purge up.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 3:12 PM by Kaziera
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 1:57 PM
Kaziera wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 1:40 PM
No. Mid caster setup is just subpar. In comparison to albs it lacks pets and range. And in comparison to hib it lacks pets.

Ot: taking utility of a tank that isnt played very often is a bad Decision imo.


Runemaster, Runemaster, SM, BD.

Pets, nearsight, and debuffs.

Mids are just stubborn and refuse to believe it's possible, just like what you posted.

It is possible. Our guild tried it for multiple times.

I stand by my statement. Mid caster sux for the above reasons.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 3:29 PM by Freedomcall
Muse wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 2:52 AM
Pros of a reduced stun timer:
-reduced stun immunity = 45s compared to 25s immunity is a long time. If you purge a 5s slam you have the Chance to stun People again before dieing, which can Change the end of a fight if you have dont have purge up and the enemy does

btw stun immunity timer is *6, not *5. so it should be 54s to 30s
Fri 23 Aug 2019 4:01 PM by Kwall0311
The real crime here is level 55 charm able pets casting greater heals on passive. #NerfEllyllSage
Fri 23 Aug 2019 4:33 PM by Aph
They should revamp all the npcs tbh. Right now it doesent make sense.

Just some strange product of the switch to NF.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 4:33 PM by Killaloth
jelzinga_EU wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 3:06 PM
Killaloth wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 11:42 AM
The issue is that you die within a slam if you run with exactly which class and from which non full tank?

I can die from a 5L savage backstun before the effects ends. "Happy" ab that considering low overall class utility.

How? The stun is 4 seconds ?

Killaloth wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 11:42 AM
BMs:
Sub 5L shamans, ministrels and skalds are the only non-casters that I can drop from full life to 0 within a slam. (pierce spec).

Shaman and Healer are on same table HP-wise, so they would go too. Scouts would go too, since they are lower than minstrel armor-wise. Shaman and Cleric are on same weakness and armor-table, so clerics go too. Skalds are essentially on same HP-table as reaver and thane, so add them to the list too. I would reckon a SB might die as well and Hunter is just on the brink of death, so roughly in a slam you kill everything in Mid but warrior, savage and zerk....

Thing is - if you are solo you need to have Purge up to fight a slam-class. It might be balanced in a FG/8vs8 but for solo'ing if you play a Slam-class you have an I-win against enemies without Purge up.

Happy to test savage back damage with quad hits if you don't believe they can drop me in 3 hits. Doable with some luck.

I asked exactly on which class he dies within the slam, it seems to me it's on his savage but that's not true at least for me.

Healers are often Dwarfs, shamy are usually kobolds. I can't drop a dwarf within a slam. Perhaps a low RR frostalf.

Scout is not a smallman class.

Clerics: more hps than a sham kobey, doesn't go down within a slam.

Skalds were already in the list.

SB/hunters: no chance they die within a slam. I would die 10 out of 10 from a good rr5+ hunter, thank god they don't inc me. Btw not smallman classes.
Fri 23 Aug 2019 11:06 PM by Makrist
As long as the removal of Slam on my Scout is followed by another QoL change. All Scouts need to be officially renamed VolleyOnly and stealth needs to be removed as well. Just embrace the suck.
Sun 25 Aug 2019 3:41 PM by Nefcait
Im surprised no one mentioned BM which is like the most op melee on this server with a 9s slam and custom mastery of the arms (LOL) that lets them swing at cap speed with a broken celtic dual mechanic
Sun 25 Aug 2019 4:25 PM by Turano
Nefcait wrote:
Sun 25 Aug 2019 3:41 PM
Im surprised no one mentioned BM which is like the most op melee on this server with a 9s slam and custom mastery of the arms (LOL) that lets them swing at cap speed with a broken celtic dual mechanic
what custom mastery of the arms and broken cd mechanic? :
Sun 25 Aug 2019 4:58 PM by Mavella
Turano wrote:
Sun 25 Aug 2019 4:25 PM
Nefcait wrote:
Sun 25 Aug 2019 3:41 PM
Im surprised no one mentioned BM which is like the most op melee on this server with a 9s slam and custom mastery of the arms (LOL) that lets them swing at cap speed with a broken celtic dual mechanic
what custom mastery of the arms and broken cd mechanic? :

The rantings of a lunatic. I'm guessing he's under the assumption the baked in duelist reflexes into all dual wield lines somehow is a buff for CD only and not LA/DW.
Mon 26 Aug 2019 9:43 AM by Siouxsie
Nefcait wrote:
Sun 25 Aug 2019 3:41 PM
Im surprised no one mentioned BM which is like the most op melee on this server with a 9s slam and custom mastery of the arms (LOL) that lets them swing at cap speed with a broken celtic dual mechanic

Yep.. it's one of the reasons why Teisiphone is RR11
Thu 29 Aug 2019 8:08 PM by RiffRaff
Wooshh wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 9:05 AM
REVOLTE wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 9:00 AM
Wooshh wrote:
Fri 23 Aug 2019 8:36 AM
Just nerf thane champ savage

why not reaver?
ive never seen you using slam anyway.

difficult to slam while i m playing animist

Since you never saw my slam i assume you died after my numb

NOBODY and I mean NOBODY purges a numb quite like me!
Fri 20 Mar 2020 1:08 PM by Muse
Still bumping again. Its time splitspecs gets viable in offtanks and give zerkers 5s sidestun.

Its so boring to just have slam on every class, Else noone wants it
Fri 20 Mar 2020 1:21 PM by borodino1812
Nerf Thanes!

I've dreamt about hearing that since 2001.
Fri 20 Mar 2020 2:37 PM by thirian24
I think it's a bit ridiculous what you're asking.

BUT, I would say that having ST on any class that has slam is dumb as hell. Lol
Sat 21 Mar 2020 10:09 AM by Vkejai
Nerf everything and just have auto attack like minecraft.. People would still moan then I guess.
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