rvr is so beautiful - Phoenix Freeshard

lost of fun rvr today!!!

Mon 9 Nov 2020 8:05 PM by MeatBicycle

rvr right now is just plain stupid. Look for the herald, last 48h rps. There are so many hibs and albs, but mid is almost non existant. In my opinion that is a huge sign that there is a balance problem in mid. Not only for zerg, but also in 8v8. Check it day after day, it doesn't change that much and i think playing mid as a "casual" is just a huge waste of time.

Mon 9 Nov 2020 11:23 PM by Stoertebecker

MeatBicycle wrote: ↑
Mon 9 Nov 2020 8:05 PM
rvr right now is just plain stupid. Look for the herald, last 48h rps. There are so many hibs and albs, but mid is almost non existant. In my opinion that is a huge sign that there is a balance problem in mid. Not only for zerg, but also in 8v8. Check it day after day, it doesn't change that much and i think playing mid as a "casual" is just a huge waste of time.

I`m playing Mid since day 1 and it isn`t a balancing problem. Half of the Mids don`t like zerging 24/7 and we don`t have a zergleader with 10h time each day, thats all.

Tue 10 Nov 2020 12:39 AM by Astaa

Loved it tonight, led my first BG, sent Albs packing. Mids showed up a couple of times but not with any real number and task was Emain anyway.

Tue 10 Nov 2020 1:10 AM by mattymc

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 9 Nov 2020 11:23 PM
MeatBicycle wrote: ↑
Mon 9 Nov 2020 8:05 PM
rvr right now is just plain stupid. Look for the herald, last 48h rps. There are so many hibs and albs, but mid is almost non existant. In my opinion that is a huge sign that there is a balance problem in mid. Not only for zerg, but also in 8v8. Check it day after day, it doesn't change that much and i think playing mid as a "casual" is just a huge waste of time.

I`m playing Mid since day 1 and it isn`t a balancing problem. Half of the Mids don`t like zerging 24/7 and we don`t have a zergleader with 10h time each day, thats all.

Look at the numbers day after day -- without followers there are no leaders. Why are the numbers skewed?

Tue 10 Nov 2020 3:28 AM by Runental

mattymc wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 1:10 AM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 9 Nov 2020 11:23 PM
....

Look at the numbers day after day -- without followers there are no leaders. Why are the numbers skewed?

Because the constant Midgard double bashing leds to resignation,- slowly, but steady,- by players and the few leaders who show up once or twice.
Yesterday again,- double invade Bled/Nott to the exactly same time when it was obviously PvEraids were going on in Mid via /u.
The 2 strongest realms bash the weakest realm,- not like it should be: the 2 weakest vs. the strongest.
Pilz & Polemo should be careful,- the day may come they only have to fight each other because no Mid will care for anything anymore (which is allready the case very often).
This may be compensated with constant BGs up,- but as Stoerte said,- noone will run 12/7 Bgs like Hib,- there are more important things in life than wasting your time on a few pixels, polygons and 2% melee damage from a relic.

/Runen

Tue 10 Nov 2020 7:12 AM by Astaa

Bullshit.

Hibs are always facing Alb and Mid invasions, we don't quit and just do flags.

What are you even doing them for? To gain RPs so you can catch even more flags? It's bizarre.

Tue 10 Nov 2020 7:17 AM by Stoertebecker

mattymc wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 1:10 AM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Mon 9 Nov 2020 11:23 PM
MeatBicycle wrote: ↑
Mon 9 Nov 2020 8:05 PM
rvr right now is just plain stupid. Look for the herald, last 48h rps. There are so many hibs and albs, but mid is almost non existant. In my opinion that is a huge sign that there is a balance problem in mid. Not only for zerg, but also in 8v8. Check it day after day, it doesn't change that much and i think playing mid as a "casual" is just a huge waste of time.

I`m playing Mid since day 1 and it isn`t a balancing problem. Half of the Mids don`t like zerging 24/7 and we don`t have a zergleader with 10h time each day, thats all.

Look at the numbers day after day -- without followers there are no leaders. Why are the numbers skewed?

There are so many other reasons on top of what Runental wrote, it would be a huge wall of text if i had to write that down but the least problem is balancing.

There is no team spirit in Midgard. It´s no secret that enjoy running tasks solo, smallmen, 8, 16.
You don`t see them at a start of a keep-take/retake, but you can be sure that they are there at the end to leech the tick rp`s.
That is one difference to hib/alb.

Has nothing to do that we don`t have the amount of players or we`re missing classes. They are there, but not for running with the BG.

Tue 10 Nov 2020 7:45 AM by Stoertebecker

Astaa wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 7:12 AM
Bullshit.

Hibs are always facing Alb and Mid invasions, we don't quit and just do flags.

What are you even doing them for? To gain RPs so you can catch even more flags? It's bizarre.

If we would invade Alb + Hib with the same numbers that are on a Tuscar/Dragonraid Hib + Alb would be blue. But that isn`t going to happen.

And it isn`t just the flags, Mids go where the task is cause that is the place where the non keep-fight action is.
It`s not for everybody making rp`s with knocking on wood and running 3-5h with a bg.

Just compare the first 2 top rp holder on this server and you`ll know what i mean, maybe. (*hint look at the kill-rp`s)

Tue 10 Nov 2020 7:56 AM by Runental

Astaa wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 7:12 AM
Bullshit.

Hibs are always facing Alb and Mid invasions, we don't quit and just do flags.

What are you even doing them for? To gain RPs so you can catch even more flags? It's bizarre.

Another good example its not worth to argue with you.
You are very short-sighted when it comes to causality and the connection between things.

Tue 10 Nov 2020 9:45 AM by MeatBicycle

Don't get me wrong, i'm quite sure that a huge problem for mid is that we don't have an active bg lead like polemo and pilz. In addition many mids just don't wanna zerg, but keep in mind that the herald also shows (as long as the numbers are not totally bugged) that there are very few mids with a lot of rps in 8vs8 as well. Those 30 mids in the top 250 for the last 48h are not all 8v8 players. So in my opinion mid works neither in zerg nor in 8vs8 great.

There are just some "small" disadvantages which sums up to the situation in which mid is right now.

For example: Mid has the weakest aoe dot. Healers are main cc and main healers which is a huge problem in zerg fights. You have 2 healers in grp, but one of them has to interrupt. Melees in general are in a bad spot which hurts Mid the most. The distribution for field ra`s is bad for mid as well.

We should not forget that the players always chose the easiest way for rps (we see this as well in the Xvs1 Gameplay. Most people don't want to have "fair" and "challenging" fights, they just want to zerk/gank lesser numbers). Therefore Midgard has often significantly fewer players.

Tue 10 Nov 2020 10:04 AM by Stoertebecker

MeatBicycle wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 9:45 AM
Don't get me wrong, i'm quite sure that a huge problem for mid is that we don't have an active bg lead like polemo and pilz. In addition many mids just don't wanna zerg, but keep in mind that the herald also shows (as long as the numbers are not totally bugged) that there are very few mids with a lot of rps in 8vs8 as well. Those 30 mids in the top 250 for the last 48h are not all 8v8 players. So in my opinion mid works neither in zerg nor in 8vs8 great.

Mid isn`t that great in keep warfare and 8v8. That may be true, but each has its own reasons. Don`t mix that together.
Even if we had a setup like on Uthgard2 (from class balance) where Midgard was stronger if it comes to melee, the Mids on this server wouldn`t participate more in keep fights/zergs. Mid would be stronger in 8v8, thats for sure. Give the Berserker charge back and the Savage his original values and you see what will happen.

Tue 10 Nov 2020 10:40 AM by

Uthred

Nearly every evening (EU PT), Mid has the most groups on /gvg list. Just saying.

Tue 10 Nov 2020 11:41 AM by DJ2000

8man that switch to Midgard for the RP Bonus are considered Mids? ...or do they just play as a Mid? ...what ever the case, i am pretty sure they don't do it "for" Mid.

Tue 10 Nov 2020 11:52 AM by Nando

Mids got no zerg isnt true, they got big zergs going - but only for a small amount of time, then they divide mysteriously.

Tue 10 Nov 2020 12:50 PM by Stoertebecker

Nando wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 11:52 AM
Mids got no zerg isnt true, they got big zergs going - but only for a small amount of time, then they divide mysteriously.

I can tell you exactly when it happens and why it disappears.

Each wed, fr + sun, from 8pm to 10 pm. Thats ally-rvr time for the german ally where they run with 3-5 fg`s together, and it`s not going to be any longer.
For the already named reasons, we don`t like to zerg 10h/day etcetc.

Tue 10 Nov 2020 12:57 PM by Stoertebecker

Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 10:40 AM
Nearly every evening (EU PT), Mid has the most groups on /gvg list. Just saying.

Those ppl seeking *fair* fights? Really?

There is only 1 way to be fair, being fair 24/7 and not just 3 x 5 mins /hours in the evenings.

Nevermind, that is no indicator for a well playing realm

Tue 10 Nov 2020 1:11 PM by

Uthred

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 12:57 PM
Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 10:40 AM
Nearly every evening (EU PT), Mid has the most groups on /gvg list. Just saying.

Those ppl seeking *fair* fights? Really?

There is only 1 way to be fair, being fair 24/7 and not just 3 x 5 mins /hours in the evenings.

Nevermind, that is no indicator for a well playing realm

You didnt get my point.

I was refering to Meatbicycle who was stating that mid isnt doing good in 8vs8 because of balance issues. To show that this isnt true, i posted the quote you were refering to. It was just to show that Mid cant be that bad in 8vs8 if most of the time, Mid has the most groups on /gvg list.

I wasnt talking about fair fighting or the "Internal" problems in Midgard that are reasons for the lack of a huge BG most of the time. That has already been stated in posts before.

Tue 10 Nov 2020 4:03 PM by Astaa

MeatBicycle wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 9:45 AM
Don't get me wrong, i'm quite sure that a huge problem for mid is that we don't have an active bg lead like polemo and pilz.

Anyone can lead a zerg, it's not like there is some sort of tactical mastermind required.

I think the difference is that with Hib, people are willing to step up and keep a BG going when one of the big leaders logs off and perhaps more importantly, most people are happy to listen. like last night. If I can do it, with the people skills of a rock then anyone can do it.

Perhaps more mids should step up, what is the worst that can happen? Fail to take some keeps, it doesn't really matter at the end of the day, its just pixels.

When its a tri-realm situation, it's great fun.

Edit, I'm no expert on Mid classes but I will agree that on paper they are probably not the best suited to siege stand offs but they are perfect for rushing. Melee needs a look at for siege over all realms though, I would love to use my hero but being a door bashing bot is pretty tedious.

It's probably outside of the boundaries for what the Devs can do but some sort of mechanic where heavy tanks can force footholds on walls or something, maybe with some sort of resource gained from the siege to create usable climb points. Or to keep it basic, Climbing Spikes as an RA, 5 point cost, 10 min reuse timer, 1 min duration.

Tue 10 Nov 2020 4:57 PM by Valaraukar

Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 1:11 PM
Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 12:57 PM
Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 10:40 AM
Nearly every evening (EU PT), Mid has the most groups on /gvg list. Just saying.

Those ppl seeking *fair* fights? Really?

There is only 1 way to be fair, being fair 24/7 and not just 3 x 5 mins /hours in the evenings.

Nevermind, that is no indicator for a well playing realm
You didnt get my point.

I was refering to Meatbicycle who was stating that mid isnt doing good in 8vs8 because of balance issues. To show that this isnt true, i posted the quote you were refering to. It was just to show that Mid cant be that bad in 8vs8 if most of the time, Mid has the most groups on /gvg list.

I wasnt talking about fair fighting or the "Internal" problems in Midgard that are reasons for the lack of a huge BG most of the time. That has already been stated in posts before.

The lack of huge BG and the presence of many 8vs8 group in Mid is not due to the internal problems... it's because Mid classes suck in BG warfare and are pretty good in 8vs8 / small fights.
The RM is by far the worst caster of the 3 realms, the SM is good enough for pbaoe but not much more, the BD...well is basically a twf bot thanks to the many nerfs, Thanes are good because of ST and nice aoe damage, but can't be an entire BG made by thanes lol. What else...cave Sham? Laughable damage compared to other dots (missing the acuty buff benefit and of course quickcast). Pac Healer? Nice to have aoe stun, if only you could cast it being interrupted by tons of pets, gtaoe, shrooms, immortal necros and so on.
Even today, in the lvl 50 pop in frontier, Mid had the highest number, but our BG (lead by the usual BG leaders we have, Johny, Maxistoo and Runental) was about half of Albs BG. So the situation was quite comical...Albion having the RP bonus for the underpop and roaming with a 80-100 ppl BG... very very lol

Tue 10 Nov 2020 5:11 PM by Stoertebecker

Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 1:11 PM
You didnt get my point.

Ah, ok

Astaa wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 4:03 PM
Anyone can lead a zerg, it's not like there is some sort of tactical mastermind required.

Nope, you need the time and the nerves for leading so many ppl, and even more if you`re in ts or discord.
I already get annoyed after 30mins with 8-10 ppl in ts, even if they talk in my language.

Tue 10 Nov 2020 7:59 PM by mattymc

Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 10:40 AM
Nearly every evening (EU PT), Mid has the most groups on /gvg list. Just saying.

So???

Tue 10 Nov 2020 9:17 PM by

Uthred

mattymc wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 7:59 PM
Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 10:40 AM
Nearly every evening (EU PT), Mid has the most groups on /gvg list. Just saying.

So???

Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 1:11 PM
I was refering to Meatbicycle who was stating that mid isnt doing good in 8vs8 because of balance issues. To show that this isnt true, i posted the quote you were refering to. It was just to show that Mid cant be that bad in 8vs8 if most of the time, Mid has the most groups on /gvg list.

Wed 11 Nov 2020 12:15 AM by Gildar

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 5:11 PM
Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 1:11 PM
You didnt get my point.

Ah, ok

Astaa wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 4:03 PM
Anyone can lead a zerg, it's not like there is some sort of tactical mastermind required.

Nope, you need the time and the nerves for leading so many ppl, and even more if you`re in ts or discord.
I already get annoyed after 30mins with 8-10 ppl in ts, even if they talk in my language.

Stoerte is right Astaa.

To lead a BG you must have leadership, charisma, steady nerves, patience and above all ... calm.

You lead the BG Hib for the first time and did it work? great, good.
But be careful because 1 rel is enough and if there is not one of the "big" leaders, the BG crumble.

But I tell you and Mid friends too one thing: do you know why Hib BG works even with a new leader ???

Because now the BG Hib has been trained for months by Pil, Gil and Smap ... the groups already know what to do and how, almost without the leader asking ... the BG leader has to decide tactics, strategy and timing of the inc now ... the BG Hib is a well oiled mechanism, which works almost by itself.

And when one of the 3 big leaders leads it ... it does damage. Today Gilboom with 2.5 groups die 3 time Vs Runental mid Bg of 40, but BG holding on without defections and after held Polemo in check with 50 albs and conquered half of Albion front, defending 2 time Crim and holding Eras port open.

PS: @Runental: Hib attach Mid frontier to hold Polemo off by mid relics ... is ever Polemo first to invade mid taking Bled.
Btw ... My friend Gilboom salute you, he have a great respect for you

Wed 11 Nov 2020 12:51 AM by Runental

Shout out to Maxistoo and Johny. We keep on trying

Wed 11 Nov 2020 1:02 AM by mattymc

Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 9:17 PM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 7:59 PM
Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 10:40 AM
Nearly every evening (EU PT), Mid has the most groups on /gvg list. Just saying.

So???

Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 1:11 PM
I was refering to Meatbicycle who was stating that mid isnt doing good in 8vs8 because of balance issues. To show that this isnt true, i posted the quote you were refering to. It was just to show that Mid cant be that bad in 8vs8 if most of the time, Mid has the most groups on /gvg list.

Ok -- but the RvR issues are real; balancing, decisions made from the beginning to now, numbers -- RvR is a 2 realm thing <which is silly> and that should be an alarm bell...it just doesn't seem to resonate at all; one could almost say RvR is treated as an after thought in a game that was designed to be 3 realm RvR.

Wed 11 Nov 2020 2:58 AM by Bradekes

mattymc wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 1:02 AM
Ok -- but the RvR issues are real; balancing, decisions made from the beginning to now, numbers -- RvR is a 2 realm thing <which is silly> and that should be an alarm bell...it just doesn't seem to resonate at all; one could almost say RvR is treated as an after thought in a game that was designed to be 3 realm RvR.

Learn to quote man... Also Hib has received basically nothing but nerfs I'm not sure how you can say they favored them at all to cause them to be dominant... Midgard has awesome abilities, aoe stun+ static tempest is broken as hell, throw a TWF in there and you're killing whole bgs... mid just doesn't know how to play.

Basically watching mid BG they just want to all play savages and somehow win...

Wed 11 Nov 2020 4:28 AM by MeatBicycle

Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 10:40 AM
Nearly every evening (EU PT), Mid has the most groups on /gvg list. Just saying.

And what does that mean, when not a single one of this groups is really dominant in rps/h or rps at all? Their are so many 8 mans because you can run only 8 man. A zerg is neither existing most of the time nor useful as mid. In addition its very hard to find a clean 8v8 at all, so most of the time those 8 mans play the "add und get added game". which don't state anything at all. Of course i can win with 16+ vs. 8 as well as loosing against 16+ as an 8man.

I don't think that the 8 man balance is totally unfair, but in my opinion alb caster (tons of pets, lifedrain nukers and utility like ichor) and hib melee setup (up to 4 healers..) are the strongest setups right now (and hib caster setup with lots of tanglers, you just can't follow them) and they have slight advantages over mid setups but it is almost neglectable cause the amount of pure 8vs8 is really low in the EU primetime.

Wed 11 Nov 2020 4:35 AM by MeatBicycle

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 2:58 AM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 1:02 AM
Ok -- but the RvR issues are real; balancing, decisions made from the beginning to now, numbers -- RvR is a 2 realm thing <which is silly> and that should be an alarm bell...it just doesn't seem to resonate at all; one could almost say RvR is treated as an after thought in a game that was designed to be 3 realm RvR.

Learn to quote man... Also Hib has received basically nothing but nerfs I'm not sure how you can say they favored them at all to cause them to be dominant... Midgard has awesome abilities, aoe stun+ static tempest is broken as hell, throw a TWF in there and you're killing whole bgs... mid just doesn't know how to play.

Basically watching mid BG they just want to all play savages and somehow win...

Paper daoc is great. Aoe Stun and twf and you kill a whole bg, sure. Keep in mind that the healer has no quickcast, so he needs moc in most situations due to gtae/rupt to aoe stun which greatly reduces the lenght of it and all Det specced classes are out of it immediately. The bd is the softest twf class with cloth and low hp, so its just no fun to just run into an enemy zerg to cast a twf.

And i really recommend to play a bd by yourself. The pets are plain stupid, the lifetap nerf was way too hard and beside twf zerg is in my opinion just frustrating as a bd. Pet recasts are so much fun. Or suddenly missing pets because they stuck anywhere else.

Wed 11 Nov 2020 9:25 AM by Stoertebecker

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 2:58 AM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 1:02 AM
Ok -- but the RvR issues are real; balancing, decisions made from the beginning to now, numbers -- RvR is a 2 realm thing <which is silly> and that should be an alarm bell...it just doesn't seem to resonate at all; one could almost say RvR is treated as an after thought in a game that was designed to be 3 realm RvR.
Basically watching mid BG they just want to all play savages and somehow win...

It`s not that easy, but somewhere true. The Mid-BG is mostly a melting pot of tank/hybrid groups.
If Alb and Hib are able to throw 15 twf`s within a fight, Mid throw 3...max. Runecarving RM`s? With luck 2-3.
Homemade problems....

Wed 11 Nov 2020 9:33 AM by byron

Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 9:17 PM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 7:59 PM
Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 10:40 AM
Nearly every evening (EU PT), Mid has the most groups on /gvg list. Just saying.

So???

Uthred wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Nov 2020 1:11 PM
I was refering to Meatbicycle who was stating that mid isnt doing good in 8vs8 because of balance issues. To show that this isnt true, i posted the quote you were refering to. It was just to show that Mid cant be that bad in 8vs8 if most of the time, Mid has the most groups on /gvg list.

Trying is not equal to dominate

For example, one Midgard's advantage against other realms is endurance buff from shamans, while other realms need chants but with invigoration potions this advantage has been canceled (and paladins, for examples, are disappeared). Why don't consider to cancel the effect of endurance pots when a player is grouped with someone else in a frontier zone ? They should be available only in solo and PvE. We would need some balance in game mechanism if the classic Daoc is the inspiration of this server. I'm sure that all the people that has complained about the styles changes will be agree with me (/provoke)

Wed 11 Nov 2020 1:13 PM by Bradekes

MeatBicycle wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 4:35 AM
Paper daoc is great. Aoe Stun and twf and you kill a whole bg, sure. Keep in mind that the healer has no quickcast, so he needs moc in most situations due to gtae/rupt to aoe stun which greatly reduces the lenght of it and all Det specced classes are out of it immediately. The bd is the softest twf class with cloth and low hp, so its just no fun to just run into an enemy zerg to cast a twf.

And i really recommend to play a bd by yourself. The pets are plain stupid, the lifetap nerf was way too hard and beside twf zerg is in my opinion just frustrating as a bd. Pet recasts are so much fun. Or suddenly missing pets because they stuck anywhere else.

Yeah paper daoc is fun. The thing is, most in BG aren't det9 tanks. Like 95% of the bg population isn't. Most group aren't either, and who says you have to use this technique on only bg? It's not a perfect thing but it really is doable by having someone with ichor in group to have long range cc.

Atleast your TWF isn't on a dumb healer class that has no other form of ranged spells. A BD also has large aoe uninterruptable snare to keep those det tanks at bay while you crush the rest of their group.

It is pretty simple that the 11s aoe stun still has a 5.5s duration if the target has 50% resists and no det. This is long enough for static tempest to reset the stun and aoe stun again. Sure someone can purge and escape the static tempest range but they gotta have good timing plus they are also getting snared by TWF/disease and taking a good amount of dmg by that time from aoe casters and the TWF itself.

This may not instant kill a group but it sure will give a winnable advantage to most encounters and is way better than sending in 4 savages.

Wed 11 Nov 2020 1:38 PM by hyshash

MeatBicycle wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 4:28 AM
And what does that mean, when not a single one of this groups is really dominant in rps/h or rps at all? Their are so many 8 mans because you can run only 8 man. A zerg is neither existing most of the time nor useful as mid. In addition its very hard to find a clean 8v8 at all, so most of the time those 8 mans play the "add und get added game". which don't state anything at all. Of course i can win with 16+ vs. 8 as well as loosing against 16+ as an 8man.

I don't think that the 8 man balance is totally unfair, but in my opinion alb caster (tons of pets, lifedrain nukers and utility like ichor) and hib melee setup (up to 4 healers..) are the strongest setups right now (and hib caster setup with lots of tanglers, you just can't follow them) and they have slight advantages over mid setups but it is almost neglectable cause the amount of pure 8vs8 is really low in the EU primetime.

You dont seem to play 8vs8 to often ...
Just a hint: mid hybrid

Wed 11 Nov 2020 2:00 PM by Stoertebecker

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 1:13 PM
A BD also has large aoe uninterruptable snare to keep those det tanks at bay while you crush the rest of their group.

You know that it is a focus spell? You know what focus means? You can do nothing, even if you jump the focus is over.
Not to mention that it is in the suppression focus tree, supp isn`t the most common skilltree for a bd atm, like the whole class.

Wed 11 Nov 2020 2:12 PM by Sepplord

static tempest doesn't reset anything while the people are still stunned, there is no immunity that could get removed...paper daoc really is fun, but most often pretty meanignless unless ALL factors are considered

Wed 11 Nov 2020 3:04 PM by Bradekes

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 2:12 PM
static tempest doesn't reset anything while the people are still stunned, there is no immunity that could get removed...paper daoc really is fun, but most often pretty meanignless unless ALL factors are considered

That's a good point, so if your team can't kill an enemy team after 5-11+seconds of being stunned and multiple TWF hits there is a problem though don't you think?.

Wed 11 Nov 2020 5:01 PM by Pzynom

Hi all,

personally I think Midgard could use a little push regarding keep fights. That's why I (not having a Tank, not playing mid) voted for tanks to climb.

Besides that, here is a vid (Phoenix, 5 days old) I discovered on YT. Find the vid very entertaining

AE Stun/TWF/Static etc. can make a difference. At the end (start time 3:14) of the vid, they clear a keep from Albs for Hibs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUUg-wFd0Hs

Generally: Awesome Server! Thanks for the fun!

Cheers, Pzy

Wed 11 Nov 2020 5:34 PM by Bradekes

Pzynom wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 5:01 PM
Hi all,

personally I think Midgard could use a little push regarding keep fights. That's why I (not having a Tank, not playing mid) voted for tanks to climb.

Besides that, here is a vid (Phoenix, 5 days old) I discovered on YT. Find the vid very entertaining
AE Stun/TWF/Static etc. can make a difference. At the end (start time 3:14) of the vid, they clear a keep from Albs for Hibs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUUg-wFd0Hs

Generally: Awesome Server! Thanks for the fun!

Cheers, Pzy

Thanks for sharing. This is exactly what I'm talking about.. that's just 1 mid group setting these up.. just imagine even 2 groups with this organization.. would most likely clean up the mess the single group can't.

Wed 11 Nov 2020 7:12 PM by mattymc

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 5:34 PM
Pzynom wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 5:01 PM
Hi all,

personally I think Midgard could use a little push regarding keep fights. That's why I (not having a Tank, not playing mid) voted for tanks to climb.

Besides that, here is a vid (Phoenix, 5 days old) I discovered on YT. Find the vid very entertaining
AE Stun/TWF/Static etc. can make a difference. At the end (start time 3:14) of the vid, they clear a keep from Albs for Hibs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUUg-wFd0Hs

Generally: Awesome Server! Thanks for the fun!

Cheers, Pzy

Thanks for sharing. This is exactly what I'm talking about.. that's just 1 mid group setting these up.. just imagine even 2 groups with this organization.. would most likely clean up the mess the single group can't.

it really means little -- Hibs and Albs can and do/have done the same thing----a particular vid of a good 8 man isn't 'proof' of anything for whatever it is you're trying to prove.

Wed 11 Nov 2020 7:25 PM by Pzynom

mattymc wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 7:12 PM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 5:34 PM
Pzynom wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 5:01 PM
Hi all,

personally I think Midgard could use a little push regarding keep fights. That's why I (not having a Tank, not playing mid) voted for tanks to climb.

Besides that, here is a vid (Phoenix, 5 days old) I discovered on YT. Find the vid very entertaining
AE Stun/TWF/Static etc. can make a difference. At the end (start time 3:14) of the vid, they clear a keep from Albs for Hibs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUUg-wFd0Hs

Generally: Awesome Server! Thanks for the fun!

Cheers, Pzy

Thanks for sharing. This is exactly what I'm talking about.. that's just 1 mid group setting these up.. just imagine even 2 groups with this organization.. would most likely clean up the mess the single group can't.

it really means little -- Hibs and Albs can and do/have done the same thing----a particular vid of a good 8 man isn't 'proof' of anything for whatever it is you're trying to prove.

Hi,

Success is usually the combination of different components, as catastrophe is usually the result of the combination of different bad components (not wearing a seat belt AND having an accident). They played that very well. Hibs/Albs cannot do the same, since they are missing the AE-Stun. This is what you achieve in specializing.
Awesome mid-play

Thanks Pzy

Quote "Hibs and Albs can and do/have done the same thing"
-> Ok, present a recent vid of Albs/Hibs recently doing the same on Phoenix, since we have a vid of mids doing it. We all know, if it is successful, people perform it, bark about it, so there should be plenty. Please let us know your excuses! Thanks

Wed 11 Nov 2020 7:49 PM by MeatBicycle

Pzynom wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 7:25 PM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 7:12 PM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 5:34 PM
Pzynom wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 5:01 PM
Hi all,

personally I think Midgard could use a little push regarding keep fights. That's why I (not having a Tank, not playing mid) voted for tanks to climb.

Besides that, here is a vid (Phoenix, 5 days old) I discovered on YT. Find the vid very entertaining
AE Stun/TWF/Static etc. can make a difference. At the end (start time 3:14) of the vid, they clear a keep from Albs for Hibs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUUg-wFd0Hs

Generally: Awesome Server! Thanks for the fun!

Cheers, Pzy

Thanks for sharing. This is exactly what I'm talking about.. that's just 1 mid group setting these up.. just imagine even 2 groups with this organization.. would most likely clean up the mess the single group can't.

it really means little -- Hibs and Albs can and do/have done the same thing----a particular vid of a good 8 man isn't 'proof' of anything for whatever it is you're trying to prove.

Hi,

Success is usually the combination of different components, as catastrophe is usually the result of the combination of different bad components (not wearing a seat belt AND having an accident). They played that very well. Hibs/Albs cannot do the same, since they are missing the AE-Stun. This is what you achieve in specializing.
Awesome mid-play
Thanks Pzy

Quote "Hibs and Albs can and do/have done the same thing"
-> Ok, present a recent vid of Albs/Hibs recently doing the same on Phoenix, since we have a vid of mids doing it. We all know, if it is successful, people perform it, so there should be plenty. Please let us know your excuses! Thanks

There was a hib grp (Malerfjerner?) doing that for months. RIght now they are playing mid so no hib bomber grp anymore.

Wed 11 Nov 2020 7:50 PM by Pzynom

MeatBicycle wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 7:49 PM
Pzynom wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 7:25 PM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 7:12 PM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 5:34 PM
Pzynom wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 5:01 PM
Hi all,

personally I think Midgard could use a little push regarding keep fights. That's why I (not having a Tank, not playing mid) voted for tanks to climb.

Besides that, here is a vid (Phoenix, 5 days old) I discovered on YT. Find the vid very entertaining
AE Stun/TWF/Static etc. can make a difference. At the end (start time 3:14) of the vid, they clear a keep from Albs for Hibs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUUg-wFd0Hs

Generally: Awesome Server! Thanks for the fun!

Cheers, Pzy

Thanks for sharing. This is exactly what I'm talking about.. that's just 1 mid group setting these up.. just imagine even 2 groups with this organization.. would most likely clean up the mess the single group can't.

Sounds very vage Thanks
it really means little -- Hibs and Albs can and do/have done the same thing----a particular vid of a good 8 man isn't 'proof' of anything for whatever it is you're trying to prove.

Hi,

Success is usually the combination of different components, as catastrophe is usually the result of the combination of different bad components (not wearing a seat belt AND having an accident). They played that very well. Hibs/Albs cannot do the same, since they are missing the AE-Stun. This is what you achieve in specializing.
Awesome mid-play
Thanks Pzy

Quote "Hibs and Albs can and do/have done the same thing"
-> Ok, present a recent vid of Albs/Hibs recently doing the same on Phoenix, since we have a vid of mids doing it. We all know, if it is successful, people perform it, so there should be plenty. Please let us know your excuses! Thanks

There was a hib grp (Malerfjerner?) doing that for months. RIght now they are playing mid so no hib bomber grp anymore.

Ok, any evidence besides your personal perception, like the vid we referred too, to compare to

? Sure they made Alb/Hib Vids that provided awesomeness without AE Stun! Thank you!

Wed 11 Nov 2020 8:05 PM by MeatBicycle

Pzynom wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 7:50 PM
MeatBicycle wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 7:49 PM
Pzynom wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 7:25 PM
mattymc wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 7:12 PM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 5:34 PM
Pzynom wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 5:01 PM
Hi all,

personally I think Midgard could use a little push regarding keep fights. That's why I (not having a Tank, not playing mid) voted for tanks to climb.

Besides that, here is a vid (Phoenix, 5 days old) I discovered on YT. Find the vid very entertaining
AE Stun/TWF/Static etc. can make a difference. At the end (start time 3:14) of the vid, they clear a keep from Albs for Hibs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUUg-wFd0Hs

Generally: Awesome Server! Thanks for the fun!

Cheers, Pzy

Thanks for sharing. This is exactly what I'm talking about.. that's just 1 mid group setting these up.. just imagine even 2 groups with this organization.. would most likely clean up the mess the single group can't.

Sounds very vage Thanks
it really means little -- Hibs and Albs can and do/have done the same thing----a particular vid of a good 8 man isn't 'proof' of anything for whatever it is you're trying to prove.

Hi,

Success is usually the combination of different components, as catastrophe is usually the result of the combination of different bad components (not wearing a seat belt AND having an accident). They played that very well. Hibs/Albs cannot do the same, since they are missing the AE-Stun. This is what you achieve in specializing.
Awesome mid-play
Thanks Pzy

Quote "Hibs and Albs can and do/have done the same thing"
-> Ok, present a recent vid of Albs/Hibs recently doing the same on Phoenix, since we have a vid of mids doing it. We all know, if it is successful, people perform it, so there should be plenty. Please let us know your excuses! Thanks

There was a hib grp (Malerfjerner?) doing that for months. RIght now they are playing mid so no hib bomber grp anymore.

Ok, any evidence besides your personal perception, like the vid we referred too, to compare to ? Sure they made Alb/Hib Vids! Thank you!

check his profile on yt:
https://www.youtube.com/user/anders892/videos

Wed 11 Nov 2020 8:08 PM by Pzynom

https://www.youtube.com/user/anders892/videos (starting 3:14 for keep clear)
That's what we are talking about to shortcut it.

Ok, your link leads to a bunch of vids, which one?
As far as I can see, they are way less efficient than the mids presented in the vid above. The fights are more time consuming and less impacting in general.
And if you think that AE-Stun doesn't matter in those situations .... well, ok ....

Please also provide vid + time stamp, as I did on the bomb vid.

Thank you!

Wed 11 Nov 2020 8:35 PM by MeatBicycle

I don't watch that many videos. I know the grp, i know that they killed a lot of stuff, even full bgs. Believe it or not. I'm not interested to watch video after video just because someone needs a prove for bombgrp in hib/alb working as well. The aoe stun is neglectable in that situations because you have 1 or 2 statics which do the work while you just bomb stuff.

Wed 11 Nov 2020 8:42 PM by Pzynom

MeatBicycle wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 8:35 PM
I don't watch that many videos. I know the grp, i know that they killed a lot of stuff, even full bgs. Believe it or not. I'm not interested to watch video after video just because someone needs a prove for bombgrp in hib/alb working as well. The aoe stun is neglectable in that situations because you have 1 or 2 statics which do the work while you just bomb stuff.

Summary:
- You know they killed a lot of stuff, believe it or not
-> well, just by you mentioning it, I totally believe it!

- Quote" I'm not interested to watch video after video just because someone needs a prove for bombgrp in hib/alb working as well
-> Ok, where is your proof? Still waiting for vids/time stamp. So far you provided nothing. Here: Your proof is ---> Take a look at the internet! (just joking)

- AE-Stun is not a point because -> Quote "because you have 1 or 2 statics which do the work while you just bomb stuff.".
-> Ok, where is your vid/proof of all the people doing the easy thing? Thanks
-> Hey, that means we can eliminate AE Stun from Mids and nobody cares. Who would have thought that!

You are talking, that's all

Please provide albs/hibs doing the same, since it's so easy and every realm will do it

?

Thanks!

Wed 11 Nov 2020 8:44 PM by Bradekes

MeatBicycle wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 8:35 PM
I don't watch that many videos. I know the grp, i know that they killed a lot of stuff, even full bgs. Believe it or not. I'm not interested to watch video after video just because someone needs a prove for bombgrp in hib/alb working as well. The aoe stun is neglectable in that situations because you have 1 or 2 statics which do the work while you just bomb stuff.

Except static tempest doesn't work instantly and takes 5 seconds to stun.. also its stun duration is very short vs an 11s stun... trying to say aoe stun is negligible is just plain ignorant.

Wed 11 Nov 2020 8:46 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 8:44 PM
Except static tempest doesn't work instantly and takes 5 seconds to stun.. also its stun duration is very short vs an 11s stun... trying to say aoe stun is negligible is just plain ignorant.

It takes 1.5 seconds to stun, stuns for 3 seconds, then pulses again after 1.5 seconds, repeating the stun / pulse dynamic until its duration is up.

Wed 11 Nov 2020 8:52 PM by Pzynom

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 8:46 PM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 8:44 PM
Except static tempest doesn't work instantly and takes 5 seconds to stun.. also its stun duration is very short vs an 11s stun... trying to say aoe stun is negligible is just plain ignorant.

It takes 1.5 seconds to stun, stuns for 3 seconds, then pulses again after 1.5 seconds, repeating the stun / pulse dynamic until its duration is up.

No matter the time. Thank you for pointing out the delay in stun field and thereby the benefit of a well timed AE-Stun.
Just for clarification, you don't start casting after 1.5 sec, you time it to land directly to be followed up by the stun field, if your time calculations are correct!? I agree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUUg-wFd0Hs
(for keep clear, start 3:14, for AE-Stun benefits, watch the vid)

Question: Isn't the AE-Stun beneficial in those situations shown in the vid? Would they have done it without the AE-Stun? Take a close look at the vid!

Again. If AE-Stun is not important, please remove the AE-Stun, since nobody cares. Thank you!
Personally I would like to see Mid stronger, but seems like that's not all people's intention

Afraid?

Thu 12 Nov 2020 12:07 AM by Valaraukar

I love people talking about Aoe Stun seen on video and never played a Pac Healer in BG / Keep / Tower fights. Roll one and check by yourself how many times you can land a good aoe stun timed with a good TWF and a good ST. Unless you go 48 pac and use the last instant AoE stun, of course, and in that case you can do it once in 10 mins and basically your group have 1 healer less because your heals will be pure crap.

Very very lol

Thu 12 Nov 2020 1:13 AM by Bradekes

Valaraukar wrote: ↑
Thu 12 Nov 2020 12:07 AM
I love people talking about Aoe Stun seen on video and never played a Pac Healer in BG / Keep / Tower fights. Roll one and check by yourself how many times you can land a good aoe stun timed with a good TWF and a good ST. Unless you go 48 pac and use the last instant AoE stun, of course, and in that case you can do it once in 10 mins and basically your group have 1 healer less because your heals will be pure crap.

Very very lol

Yeah it's not that hard if someone already landed a good Ichor of the deep... like seen in the videos

Thu 12 Nov 2020 7:51 AM by Sepplord

Ofcourse AOE stun isn't completely neglible, but imo "both sides" here aren't arguing in good faith

For static to stun and remove the immunity it has to tick AFTER AOE-stun wears off, and before people have run out. Considering in a BG you have verious levels off resists/resistbuffs/determination it is basically impossible "to time it correctly"

I didn't watch the whole video, but what was pulled of in the first 3examples is something that all realms would be capable of doing (and single videos really don't prove much at all...there are videos of 4mids beating fullgrps of hibs/albs, so does that mean mids are OP? And If it means that, how is it possible that there are also videos of 4hibs/albs beating a fullgroup of enemies? Should be impossible if we conclude from one video the strength of a realm based on individual groupperformances). All realms have different benefits and ways to maximise their bombing potential. Albion has VP Wizard or VP/Ichor/NM (Necro) on their bombs that you would want to stack in a bomb group for bigger burst, Hibernia has VP/Ichor (Eldritch) and NM (Ench), midgard has NM (Spiritmaster).

The biggest difference between the realms are the metaclasses and their availability in the realms. Yeah you CAN build bombgroups in all realms, but in midgard that group will not do much else and is pretty much pidgeonholed into being a bombgroup. In Albion it's similar. Hibernia though you could mostly take any castergroup and spec them for bombing for a night of cheesing zergs of noobs and half-afk.

PS: you wanted proof of other realms zergbombing, so here you go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh9jISkiVA8
(non POC entrance bombs start at minute 3. Note how these are fights from one evening, the zerg fighting against the bombgrp multiple times, not just being taken by surprise once, also in wide open areas)

Thu 12 Nov 2020 8:52 AM by MeatBicycle

Pzynom wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 8:42 PM
MeatBicycle wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Nov 2020 8:35 PM
I don't watch that many videos. I know the grp, i know that they killed a lot of stuff, even full bgs. Believe it or not. I'm not interested to watch video after video just because someone needs a prove for bombgrp in hib/alb working as well. The aoe stun is neglectable in that situations because you have 1 or 2 statics which do the work while you just bomb stuff.

Summary:
- You know they killed a lot of stuff, believe it or not
-> well, just by you mentioning it, I totally believe it!

- Quote" I'm not interested to watch video after video just because someone needs a prove for bombgrp in hib/alb working as well
-> Ok, where is your proof? Still waiting for vids/time stamp. So far you provided nothing. Here: Your proof is ---> Take a look at the internet! (just joking)

- AE-Stun is not a point because -> Quote "because you have 1 or 2 statics which do the work while you just bomb stuff.".
-> Ok, where is your vid/proof of all the people doing the easy thing? Thanks
-> Hey, that means we can eliminate AE Stun from Mids and nobody cares. Who would have thought that!

You are talking, that's all Please provide albs/hibs doing the same, since it's so easy and every realm will do it ?

Thanks!

SInce Sepplord (thanks for your efforts! Thats the scene i had in mind when i started writing about the Malerfjerner Grp) posted the link and timestamp: What do you say now? You see that it is possible without aoe stun because of the power of stacked field RAs.

Of course aoe stun can be strong, but its not like alb/hib can't bomb a zerg without it. Sometimes its even easier for them because of the availability of the field RAs, you can have more than 1 ichor in grp while a second sham for a second ichor is mostly wasted for example.

And keep in mind that the "low" insta aoe spells have quite a small radius and you don't have enough specpoints to go for the higher ranks with bigger radius.

Thu 12 Nov 2020 4:18 PM by Sepplord

There are even more brutal ones from them (i think) in OF-Phoenix when they ambushed a reliczerg on the move in the open and killed about a hundred people before being overwhelmed.
But i couldn't find that one anymore