Overpopulation Penalty - Phoenix Freeshard

Ello,

If the trend continues (per usual) Mid will have a dominate population bonus due to the ease of leveling, templating, and most of all the forgiving much "simpler" RvR style. I think the devs are doing a great job experimenting with different incentives to combat this. That being said, the draw to Midgard is very difficult to dissuade and always has been.

I believe they should try an overpopulation penalty to RPs. Possibly combined with a similar penalty in the relic/keep mechanics (weaker/fewer guards, portal keep penalties, etc. The idea is not to punish people who like Midgard or people who just like to PvE, but to reduce the RvR efforts that manifest into realm imbalance (DF, relics, etc).

This of course would coincide with the same bonuses already in effect. Both XP/RvR bonuses for underpop realms, and only RvR penalties for the overpop realm.

Have fun!

Thu 7 Feb 2019 7:14 PM by chryso

So the underpopulation bonus is not enough for you? You want a double bonus?

BTW, why do you think leveling easier in mid?

Thu 7 Feb 2019 7:16 PM by grannydanger

If you let me know what language you're able to read I can get someone to translate. I know germans, french, italians, etc just let me know what language you prefer.

Thu 7 Feb 2019 7:31 PM by defiasbandit

No way

Thu 7 Feb 2019 8:00 PM by slunky45

I guess it's just easier to pre-whine than pre-kite.

Fri 8 Feb 2019 12:02 AM by DirtyAlb

Alb is no harder or easier to lvl. I have 50s on both. I do find it easier to get rvr groups on mid. More people are willing to roll out without the perfect group, what’s meta. I sit in alb a long time looking for rvr group with no luck so the next day I play mid. Simpler rvr is kinda crazy thing to say. IMO albs mostly like set classes for their groups so a lot of people that would like to get a group to rvr can’t so give up because 8 man meta says that class is not optimal. Just saying. There’s always exceptions but that’s my experience with my wiz. If your not a thruergist, sorc or cabby , mins, cleric , friar your class is on the outs, maybe a few alb tank groups which is either merc or arms, maybe a pally.

Fri 8 Feb 2019 8:25 AM by Sepplord

I don't know where you get easier levelling and templating ^^ but i don't want to argue those points since it doesn't matter for the argument i am going to make.

Imo penalties for stuff you have no control over are always a bad thing. Being penalized for having a lot of other players also log into "your" realm will just lead to the Anti-realm-community. People telling others to leave their realm, people getting upset at new people coming to the realm and activating penalties while being noobs, etc....

That is the OPPOSITE of what we need and want.

Fri 8 Feb 2019 11:30 AM by gnefner

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Feb 2019 8:25 AM
I don't know where you get easier levelling and templating ^^ but i don't want to argue those points since it doesn't matter for the argument i am going to make.

Imo penalties for stuff you have no control over are always a bad thing. Being penalized for having a lot of other players also log into "your" realm will just lead to the Anti-realm-community. People telling others to leave their realm, people getting upset at new people coming to the realm and activating penalties while being noobs, etc....

That is the OPPOSITE of what we need and want.

This.

Fri 8 Feb 2019 3:33 PM by Afuldan

We have an underpopulation bonus in place already, why not raise that bonus before punishing players?

Wed 20 Feb 2019 9:36 PM by teiloh

People really don't like penalties, but maybe there should be harder underpop bonuses like minor +healing/damage/defense.

Preferably keep guard population would be boosted and the RvR maps themselves would respond but that's harder to put in.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 12:32 AM by Stimmed

I agree you cant punish ppl for playing what they want. That will just lead to more realm swapping/hopping or people quitting. The bonus is enough imo. At some points its 30+% for me prime time. That's more then enough.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 5:39 AM by worldknown

Stimmed wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 12:32 AM
I agree you cant punish ppl for playing what they want. That will just lead to more realm swapping/hopping or people quitting. The bonus is enough imo. At some points its 30+% for me prime time. That's more then enough.

No, I’ve never seen 30% before. And even then when you have mob type bonuses that are 360% an additional 30% isn’t even a factor when someone decides what realm they want to play.

Like was stated earlier there shouldn’t be a punishment for rolling a char on the highest populated realm, rather it should be incentived through realm bonuses of the under populated realms - such as it is now.

I think the exp gain needs to double at a bare minimum. Right now other realms have no chance of competing against Mid. Mind you I main a Mid character and I’m completely content with exp boosting other realms If that means better RVR competition.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 6:35 AM by Sepplord

worldknown wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 5:39 AM
Stimmed wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 12:32 AM
I agree you cant punish ppl for playing what they want. That will just lead to more realm swapping/hopping or people quitting. The bonus is enough imo. At some points its 30+% for me prime time. That's more then enough.

No, I’ve never seen 30% before. And even then when you have mob type bonuses that are 360% an additional 30% isn’t even a factor when someone decides what realm they want to play.

Like was stated earlier there shouldn’t be a punishment for rolling a char on the highest populated realm, rather it should be incentived through realm bonuses of the under populated realms - such as it is now.

I think the exp gain needs to double at a bare minimum. Right now other realms have no chance of competing against Mid. Mind you I main a Mid character and I’m completely content with exp boosting other realms If that means better RVR competition.

While levelling a huge population can also be a detriment because of camped spots...and the 30% bonus also applies to RvR (and afaik it is a regional thing...)
Depending on the active RvR-population we also got 30% bonus as mids recently. It can swing pretty fast if a few hundred of one realm leave to do a PvE-Raid or similar. (Unsure if it is frontier-wide or zone specific too)

Thu 21 Feb 2019 7:21 AM by Druth

People forget that underdog bonuses are an indirect penalty to the overpopualted realms...
Funny how methods decieve people.

If I give everyone in the world, but you, 5$, I technically took 5$ from you (not precisely 5$, a little less, due to purchasepower factoring in).

And Midgard is not overpopulated, only over-representated, some times albs and hibs have more lvl 50's, they just don't do as much RvR with them.

The underdog bonuses + relics having little effect + DF not being important to lvl/farm, all factors in to diminish the effects of a realm being more popular.
And it's been observed by many who spend time in different realms, that Midgard is more pug friendly, either by design or by community.
And pug friendlyness attracts casuals, and casuals don't really follow the 8man hype and so zerg, which attracts even more casuals because zerging doesn't require: 2 of X class, 1 of Y, 3 of B etc etc... have heals? Have speed? Anything goes.

Thu 21 Feb 2019 8:17 PM by Stimmed

worldknown wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 5:39 AM
Stimmed wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 12:32 AM
I agree you cant punish ppl for playing what they want. That will just lead to more realm swapping/hopping or people quitting. The bonus is enough imo. At some points its 30+% for me prime time. That's more then enough.

No, I’ve never seen 30% before. And even then when you have mob type bonuses that are 360% an additional 30% isn’t even a factor when someone decides what realm they want to play.

Like was stated earlier there shouldn’t be a punishment for rolling a char on the highest populated realm, rather it should be incentived through realm bonuses of the under populated realms - such as it is now.

I think the exp gain needs to double at a bare minimum. Right now other realms have no chance of competing against Mid. Mind you I main a Mid character and I’m completely content with exp boosting other realms If that means better RVR competition.

In RvR last night it was 45% if you don't think that is great value your on drugs :/

Who cares about the PVE side of the bonus its fast enough here without adding even more speed to leveling.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 9:42 AM by MadDog

Midgard has the worst leveling IMO

Winner is Hibernia with animist and bomb group, then albion with cabalist focus pull + bomb BUT i tried Midgard and its by far the worst of the 3 realm, they cant focus pull and pbaoe.

Their classes is all about easy mode too.(Hi instant lifetap BD and Skald that doesn't need to twist song, no Wonder they are the 2 most played classes).

Fri 22 Feb 2019 12:01 PM by Laadna

Afuldan wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Feb 2019 3:33 PM
We have an underpopulation bonus in place already, why not raise that bonus before punishing players?

It's not enough. Thus said, I agree with the idea that you can't be blamed for things that are out of your control (other players deciding to play on the same realm as you do).

I play on Albion and most people I read on public chans are :
- leveling
- whining about how hard leveling is (wtf)
- asking for pl, sometimes in a quite rude way
- farming gold and feathers

In the middle of that process, they argue on public or private chats about how hard it is for Albion to RvR, how noob other albs are, how selfish people are about doing smallman (never saw the same people starting a 8man group though...) and how pretty and perfect they template should be before they consider fighting other players.

So you see, leveling incentives are not the proper answer. My guess is that these people are either afraid of RvR, or just don't like it and unwilling to admit that. Thus said, they do count as total realm population. So, the incentives should be about actually doing RvR activity (I'm not talking about doing realm tasks by just being somewhere). In fact, I think you should dissociate "current realm population" and "actual RvR realm population" before considering doing anything about it. And maybe focus on helping realm defense, because logging in and seeing all of your keeps taken again, while 95% of people connected when your keeps were taken just don't give a shit about defending them 'cause, you know, they are farming gold or leveling their 10th toon... Is just boring and a huge negative incentive when you want to do RvR.

Just a word about realm comparative leveling. During beta, I leveled a healer and a thane. Healer in 4 days, thane on 2. You don't really need focus damage shield pet when you can aoe stun and guard your (pb)aoe casters. On Albion it was a bit slower with the cleric, even with a large number of "focus grp". Because people get crazy about this, do not want anything else but the perfect composition, and atop of this play rather badly just because they think it's magical and do not require any focus or skill. And as a result, your RvR-ready population is mostly made of cabalists, clerics, wizards and minstrels. Clerics, especially, tend to be really picky and lazy

Fri 22 Feb 2019 2:19 PM by chryso

MadDog wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 9:42 AM
Skald that doesn't need to twist song, no Wonder they are the 2 most played classes).

I don't understand. Skalds can only play one song at a time. They can't twist like a pally because the song times out before you are able to cast it again.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 9:21 PM by randomeclipse

I don't feel that the population of each realm is that far apart, tbh. Are there some metrics somewhere that say otherwise?

Fri 22 Feb 2019 9:30 PM by teiloh

MadDog wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 9:42 AM
Midgard has the worst leveling IMO

Winner is Hibernia with animist and bomb group, then albion with cabalist focus pull + bomb BUT i tried Midgard and its by far the worst of the 3 realm, they cant focus pull and pbaoe.

Their classes is all about easy mode too.(Hi instant lifetap BD and Skald that doesn't need to twist song, no Wonder they are the 2 most played classes).

Cabalists don't have a PBAE, either. SMs have the same Focus shield in their pet buff line.

Sun 24 Feb 2019 7:26 AM by worldknown

Druth wrote: ↑
Thu 21 Feb 2019 7:21 AM
People forget that underdog bonuses are an indirect penalty to the overpopualted realms...
Funny how methods decieve people.

If I give everyone in the world, but you, 5$, I technically took 5$ from you (not precisely 5$, a little less, due to purchasepower factoring in).

And Midgard is not overpopulated, only over-representated, some times albs and hibs have more lvl 50's, they just don't do as much RvR with them.

The underdog bonuses + relics having little effect + DF not being important to lvl/farm, all factors in to diminish the effects of a realm being more popular.
And it's been observed by many who spend time in different realms, that Midgard is more pug friendly, either by design or by community.
And pug friendlyness attracts casuals, and casuals don't really follow the 8man hype and so zerg, which attracts even more casuals because zerging doesn't require: 2 of X class, 1 of Y, 3 of B etc etc... have heals? Have speed? Anything goes.

Sorry you lost me when you said giving you $5 is like taking $5 from me: No, that’s not how it works. You just got $5 and what’s in my bank account is unchanged.

Sun 24 Feb 2019 10:20 PM by Keelia

Mids roll out with more pugs and off meta groups because mid RvR is so forgiving. You don’t need a good setup to steam roll most alb/hib pugs, throwing 5 tanks at any group is overpowering.