Would a 15 minute MoC cooldown be better for balance? Perhaps some 30 min RAs can be lowered to 50. Why or why not?
Master of Concentration 15 minute instead of 30
Started 13 Sep 2018
by
defiasbandit
in
RvR
Thu 13 Sep 2018 10:15 PM
by
Niix
If you're going to lower cooldowns then at most 30's go to 22.5 range... 20's go to 15 range... rest stay same.
Fri 14 Sep 2018 12:03 AM
by
Dathorn
There is no real reason to lower RA timers other than you want to MOC more often.
With 30 minute timers its much more important when you use them, you cant just dump them on every inc, and it is better this way.
With 30 minute timers its much more important when you use them, you cant just dump them on every inc, and it is better this way.
Fri 14 Sep 2018 6:33 AM
by
Druth
If you want to suggest some change for balance reasons, it's important to mention why it's a needed change.
"Would doubling armsman damage be good for balance?" Is hardly something people will take serious.
"Would doubling armsman damage be good for balance?" Is hardly something people will take serious.
Fri 14 Sep 2018 3:33 PM
by
Vkejai
Can't see how that would help with balance...
Thu 20 Sep 2018 6:35 AM
by
Falken
Healer instant heals got lowered, why shouldn't RAs as well? Change healing instants back to their respective timers, or drop RAs, let's apply the same logical thought process to everything, not just healer timers.
Single instant went from 10m to 5m and group instant went from 15m to 10m for those wondering, so healing instants are up twice as often and group instants are up 33% more, alright cool you want fights to last longer and healers to get rewarded for playing poorly, lets reward everybody then and lower ALL timers by 33-50%.
Single instant went from 10m to 5m and group instant went from 15m to 10m for those wondering, so healing instants are up twice as often and group instants are up 33% more, alright cool you want fights to last longer and healers to get rewarded for playing poorly, lets reward everybody then and lower ALL timers by 33-50%.
Fri 28 Sep 2018 6:15 PM
by
defiasbandit
Falken wrote: ↑Thu 20 Sep 2018 6:35 AMHealer instant heals got lowered, why shouldn't RAs as well? Change healing instants back to their respective timers, or drop RAs, let's apply the same logical thought process to everything, not just healer timers.
Single instant went from 10m to 5m and group instant went from 15m to 10m for those wondering, so healing instants are up twice as often and group instants are up 33% more, alright cool you want fights to last longer and healers to get rewarded for playing poorly, lets reward everybody then and lower ALL timers by 33-50%.
I do not really think MoC should be 15 mins, but I am concerned about some of the balance with others classes.
The speed and healing classes in this game can be oppressive. I think healers are fairly balanced, but changing their cds can break that. Bards, minstrels, druids, healers, etc.. too many borderline iwin buttons.
Sat 29 Sep 2018 6:12 AM
by
rubaduck
Falken wrote: ↑Thu 20 Sep 2018 6:35 AMHealer instant heals got lowered, why shouldn't RAs as well? Change healing instants back to their respective timers, or drop RAs, let's apply the same logical thought process to everything, not just healer timers.
Single instant went from 10m to 5m and group instant went from 15m to 10m for those wondering, so healing instants are up twice as often and group instants are up 33% more, alright cool you want fights to last longer and healers to get rewarded for playing poorly, lets reward everybody then and lower ALL timers by 33-50%.
I have seen your argument, and you have seen mine on this matter so I won't go in to that discussion here.
The timers on RA can tip the favor of a fight, the healer timers at best just neutralize the favor your opponent had so they should not and can not compare in terms of effective use. Yes you are comparing time, minutes and seconds, but not the abilities themselves. Put the healer timer back and you'll say the exact same thing as now (increase insta heal timers) because nothing changed. Put the RA's to 15 or 20 and you'll see all and every player complain about moc casters, the group purges, the ichors, the SOS use because it really affected the pvp dynamics.
But go ahead, be black / white on the subject.
Sat 29 Sep 2018 6:33 AM
by
defiasbandit
Add a cast time to 2300 range Amnesia, Ichor, SoS etc.. Too many instacasts ruin RvR.
Sat 6 Oct 2018 1:58 PM
by
Skally
MoC timer to 5mins tbh.
Its too underpowered at the moment.
Its too underpowered at the moment.
Sun 7 Oct 2018 7:32 PM
by
relvinian
Neither moc nor purge should be lowered.
Sat 13 Oct 2018 11:45 AM
by
Dve
rubaduck wrote: ↑Sat 29 Sep 2018 6:12 AMThe timers on RA can tip the favor of a fight, the healer timers at best just neutralize the favor your opponent had so they should not and can not compare in terms of effective use. Yes you are comparing time, minutes and seconds, but not the abilities themselves. Put the healer timer back and you'll say the exact same thing as now (increase insta heal timers) because nothing changed. Put the RA's to 15 or 20 and you'll see all and every player complain about moc casters, the group purges, the ichors, the SOS use because it really affected the pvp dynamics.
But go ahead, be black / white on the subject.
Sorry, but no. There are setups that are completely revolved around abusing the insane healing buffs (increased cast speed on spec heals, buffed major heal on secondary healers like warden and bard, shortened instant heals cooldowns on primary healers, moc on bards which they effectively only need for demezz and heal, det on wardens) to create as good as unkillable setups, shifting the balance by a lot. The more healing classes a group can invite, the better they can abuse this. It's as good as impossible to kill a target, if you "forget" to cc or interrupt just one of the five spec healers. And even if you manage to interrupt each of them, they can take turns to moc heal (which is why you can see them sometimes not clearing existing theurgist pets, to focus on casters instead).
But you are right, simply lowering the cooldown of everything else aswell is not the solution to this. Revert the healing changes instead! I dont mind the reduced power cost, but the casting speed and cooldowns need to be nerfed. And while we are at it, either remove SOS, GP and Ichor, or nerf them (to new RA SOS, Self+Single target Purge, and 1500 range Ichor).
Sat 13 Oct 2018 11:29 PM
by
defiasbandit
Dve wrote: ↑Sat 13 Oct 2018 11:45 AMrubaduck wrote: ↑Sat 29 Sep 2018 6:12 AMThe timers on RA can tip the favor of a fight, the healer timers at best just neutralize the favor your opponent had so they should not and can not compare in terms of effective use. Yes you are comparing time, minutes and seconds, but not the abilities themselves. Put the healer timer back and you'll say the exact same thing as now (increase insta heal timers) because nothing changed. Put the RA's to 15 or 20 and you'll see all and every player complain about moc casters, the group purges, the ichors, the SOS use because it really affected the pvp dynamics.
But go ahead, be black / white on the subject.
Sorry, but no. There are setups that are completely revolved around abusing the insane healing buffs (increased cast speed on spec heals, buffed major heal on secondary healers like warden and bard, shortened instant heals cooldowns on primary healers, moc on bards which they effectively only need for demezz and heal, det on wardens) to create as good as unkillable setups, shifting the balance by a lot. The more healing classes a group can invite, the better they can abuse this. It's as good as impossible to kill a target, if you "forget" to cc or interrupt just one of the five spec healers. And even if you manage to interrupt each of them, they can take turns to moc heal (which is why you can see them sometimes not clearing existing theurgist pets, to focus on casters instead).
But you are right, simply lowering the cooldown of everything else aswell is not the solution to this. Revert the healing changes instead! I dont mind the reduced power cost, but the casting speed and cooldowns need to be nerfed. And while we are at it, either remove SOS, GP and Ichor, or nerf them (to new RA SOS, Self+Single target Purge, and 1500 range Ichor).
This 100%. RvR is turning into a joke. The balance changes are all for 8mans and op classes.
Sun 14 Oct 2018 4:23 AM
by
Armsmancer
defias if all your "balance" posts didn't directly benefit your wizard, or nerf the latest class you died to, it'd be easier to consider your suggestions. Nothing in this thread justifies lowering the RA times at all, I don't even see a good argument for it to happen anywhere, just "let me have this plz".
No.
No.
Mon 15 Oct 2018 6:15 AM
by
defiasbandit
Armsmancer wrote: ↑Sun 14 Oct 2018 4:23 AMdefias if all your "balance" posts didn't directly benefit your wizard, or nerf the latest class you died to, it'd be easier to consider your suggestions. Nothing in this thread justifies lowering the RA times at all, I don't even see a good argument for it to happen anywhere, just "let me have this plz".
No.
Game is better with 15 minute purge and you know it.
Mon 15 Oct 2018 11:31 AM
by
Sei
defiasbandit wrote: ↑Mon 15 Oct 2018 6:15 AMArmsmancer wrote: ↑Sun 14 Oct 2018 4:23 AMdefias if all your "balance" posts didn't directly benefit your wizard, or nerf the latest class you died to, it'd be easier to consider your suggestions. Nothing in this thread justifies lowering the RA times at all, I don't even see a good argument for it to happen anywhere, just "let me have this plz".
No.
Game is better with 15 minute purge and you know it.
Well no it s not?
People are complaining everyday about how Ra dump is an issue with old system, and how NF Ra adressed it, but i dont think we want the dump being increased with old Ra effect.
Like never forger how nf moc is nerfed cause of this 75% effect + the cost of 30points.
Mon 15 Oct 2018 1:03 PM
by
Ganaka
Instead of asking for something free, ask for an adjustment...
Maybe if Purge could be bought twice, then the timer could be cut in half?
I'm not sure I like this idea either since it would just create a new meta. ;;; I hate meta. ,,, ...
Also ... The power of healers in RVR does not fit in a conversation about Purge. However, I've said it a hundred times, the group heals and buffs wouldn't be nearly as powerful if the max group size were 5 or 6.
Maybe if Purge could be bought twice, then the timer could be cut in half?
I'm not sure I like this idea either since it would just create a new meta. ;;; I hate meta. ,,, ...
Also ... The power of healers in RVR does not fit in a conversation about Purge. However, I've said it a hundred times, the group heals and buffs wouldn't be nearly as powerful if the max group size were 5 or 6.
Mon 15 Oct 2018 5:01 PM
by
defiasbandit
Lets not even get started on how op healers are here.
Design and balance your game around 8mans and say goodbye to your population.
Ganaka wrote: ↑Mon 15 Oct 2018 1:03 PMInstead of asking for something free, ask for an adjustment...
Maybe if Purge could be bought twice, then the timer could be cut in half?
I'm not sure I like this idea either since it would just create a new meta. ;;; I hate meta. ,,, ...
Also ... The power of healers in RVR does not fit in a conversation about Purge. However, I've said it a hundred times, the group heals and buffs wouldn't be nearly as powerful if the max group size were 5 or 6.
Mon 15 Oct 2018 6:41 PM
by
Armsmancer
Lol more doomsday claims if the devs don't nerf his enemies and buff his class
THE END IS COMING!
THE END IS COMING!
Mon 15 Oct 2018 7:00 PM
by
defiasbandit
Armsmancer wrote: ↑Mon 15 Oct 2018 6:41 PMLol more doomsday claims if the devs don't nerf his enemies and buff his class
THE ttps://i.ytimg.com/vi/4K67r4R4jQk/hqdefault.jpg[/img]
Kaelthas is no match for me.
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