I'm in full combat, hitting a toon, tila btw, norse sb, about 5x now i have attacked this norse with a aoe snare and he always resists it. Why?
It's the lvl 49 snare there should be about 10% chance for him to resist the snare. Resists it every time.
What is the counter vs vanish? He has like 17 dbs and he is killing people in front of the portal keep with people all around.
There doesn't appear to be any counter to this ra and it is kind of bs if you must know
Why does someone walk around like some kind of a god and can kill at will with an instant i-win button?
BTW, tila is a great player, not taking anything from him. He is a badass. Really good player. Just wondering why does this i-win button have to be so unbeatable?
Vanish is on a 15min timer, same as Purge I & II, which assassins can't get. Any higher purge has less of a time, while vanish is 15min no matter the level. Don't think it's a big deal, tbh. As far as resists go, some of that can be rog, some of it is your spec vs his ra's and racial resists.
On live servers you had at least mos and som/ring of dances to counter vanish... Here if someone vanishes you dont have any chance to find him. I understand the intention of getting away with vanish but imo, like any other ra, there has to be some kind of counter but atm there isnt
On live servers you had at least mos and som/ring of dances to counter vanish... Here if someone vanishes you dont have any chance to find him. I understand the intention of getting away with vanish but imo, like any other ra, there has to be some kind of counter but atm there isnt
Vote to give back ra mos
There's already a downside, you vanish and lose your weapons for 30s.
If you vanish on low health you will almost certainly be found.
If you want to vanish early on, whilst getting zerged down, you probably need to blow purge too just to get out of stun.
On live servers you had at least mos and som/ring of dances to counter vanish... Here if someone vanishes you dont have any chance to find him. I understand the intention of getting away with vanish but imo, like any other ra, there has to be some kind of counter but atm there isnt
Vote to give back ra mos
There's already a downside, you vanish and lose your weapons for 30s.
If you vanish on low health you will almost certainly be found.
If you want to vanish early on, whilst getting zerged down, you probably need to blow purge too just to get out of stun.
On live servers you had at least mos and som/ring of dances to counter vanish... Here if someone vanishes you dont have any chance to find him. I understand the intention of getting away with vanish but imo, like any other ra, there has to be some kind of counter but atm there isnt
Vote to give back ra mos
There's already a downside, you vanish and lose your weapons for 30s.
If you vanish on low health you will almost certainly be found.
If you want to vanish early on, whilst getting zerged down, you probably need to blow purge too just to get out of stun.
A few counter arguments...
nothing of this can be considered "counter"
I said downside and counter arguments.
Counter skills? PBAOE/GTAE/Stealthers seeing you/Necro nuking out of stealth seems to do the trick.
There's already a downside, you vanish and lose your weapons for 30s.
If you vanish on low health you will almost certainly be found.
If you want to vanish early on, whilst getting zerged down, you probably need to blow purge too just to get out of stun.
A few counter arguments...
nothing of this can be considered "counter"
I said downside and counter arguments.
Counter skills? PBAOE/GTAE/Stealthers seeing you/Necro nuking out of stealth seems to do the trick.
well stealther is not seeing you thats what i mean and that was never the case... as a stealther you could always find vanished ppl yes if you have gtae or pbae but which melee has that? none!
Vanish is fine. Its 15 minute chance to escape being zerged or added on. Its not winning you a fight most the time. I never use it in 1v1 even if losing but that is just my preference on use.
Mainly used for if you run for ever to get somewhere like a NS to Emain or something to get zerged can be annoying saves you one run here and there.
Relvinian the deal is that Assassins are op on this server. Full temps and weaps in 1 day of farming. Oh whatever.
OP in what way? Able to kill solo casters? Seems like an assassin's role. 25% strikethrough nerf against shield tanks? Yeah, I can see how OP that is here. Maybe it's the chain armor, mez, insta stun, ip, sos combined with stealth that makes them OP. That's not assassin's? My bad. As far as the temp comment it's clear you are clueless. Assassin's are the hardest to temp of any class. Never mind having to make numerous weapon's to swap. Trolololol.
Relvinian the deal is that Assassins are op on this server. Full temps and weaps in 1 day of farming. Oh whatever.
OP in what way? Able to kill solo casters? Seems like an assassin's role. 25% strikethrough nerf against shield tanks? Yeah, I can see how OP that is here. Maybe it's the chain armor, mez, insta stun, ip, sos combined with stealth that makes them OP. That's not assassin's? My bad. As far as the temp comment it's clear you are clueless. Assassin's are the hardest to temp of any class. Never mind having to make numerous weapon's to swap. Trolololol.
Yeah trololol. Its 10x easier to temp and level here than it was during SI. The average assassin here is way more geared than ones during SI. The difficulty in temping and leveling back then was part of the balance. You can earn like 50k feathers in a day here and buy raid gear. Then factor in the RA changes.
Relvinian the deal is that Assassins are op on this server. Full temps and weaps in 1 day of farming. Oh whatever.
OP in what way? Able to kill solo casters? Seems like an assassin's role. 25% strikethrough nerf against shield tanks? Yeah, I can see how OP that is here. Maybe it's the chain armor, mez, insta stun, ip, sos combined with stealth that makes them OP. That's not assassin's? My bad. As far as the temp comment it's clear you are clueless. Assassin's are the hardest to temp of any class. Never mind having to make numerous weapon's to swap. Trolololol.
Yeah trololol. Its 10x easier to temp and level here than it was during SI. The average assassin here is way more geared than ones during SI. The difficulty in temping and leveling back then was part of the balance. You can earn like 50k feathers in a day here and buy raid gear. Then factor in the RA changes.
And it's even easier for every other class to temp. Which RA changes are making them OP? Purge? The shitty version of viper? Vanish? Yeah not getting zerged is pretty OP I guess. You're probly a solo wizzy that run's out to mile gates over and over and gets perfed every time. I'd be salty too.
I have had TONS resisted. I always check logs after a fight specially a loss. And so many times enervating gets resisted.
Assassins are meant to shine 1v1 thats all they have. Insta gibbing casters etc. Templating here is easier yes. But its still no easy feat. Most ppl cant farm 50k feathers in a day they work have familys etc dont want to spend that much time a day on games.
Most tanks will do very well vs assasins. Most skalds will do very well vs a sin. Casters are dead meat most the time yes. I fail to see how assassins are OP when they only really destroy casters? Which are not a solo class. No groups are asking for assassins, they should excel at killing solo targets.
The poisons here are ridiculous. I don't think I have ever resisted one yet and the debilitation of them is over the top.
On top of that add in the fact they can hit you with 8 different poisoned weapons in what...12 seconds?
Exactly. There are tons of reasons why Assassins are OP. Of course these players are in denial because they want ez mode RvR. Assassins here are nothing like they were during Classic/SI. It's almost a joke. Stop pretending.
The poisons here are ridiculous. I don't think I have ever resisted one yet and the debilitation of them is over the top.
On top of that add in the fact they can hit you with 8 different poisoned weapons in what...12 seconds?
Exactly. There are tons of reasons why Assassins are OP. Of course these players are in denial because they want ez mode RvR. Assassins here are nothing like they were during Classic/SI. It's almost a joke. Stop pretending.
The more they downplay poisons, the better chance it never changes.
I guess if I loved my class I might be in denial also.
Also, whoever said most tanks will well against assassins, pretty much EVERY tank SHOULD beat an assassin 1v1, while every caster/healer should probably lose against assassins. Right now assassins are beating most tanks unless the tank blows purge/IP to stop 1 player from gibbing him.
So in your mind. Assassins should only be good vs Casters?. Even though no group will run them there a solo class? Tanks are not a solo class have a variety of ways to RvR and wanted in almost any group.
If you hit a tank without purge up your prolly dead slam and 3 shot. Specially a war or bm etc. So saying they need IP to beat us sure. But we need purge to make our chances of beating them decent.
It’s the only tool us Solo’ers have against the mindless alb and hib zergs that steam roll solos and it’s on a 15 minute cool down.
You even run 4-5 stealth zergs now and emote spam after killing a solo thinking it’s an accomplishment?
Nothing to see here folks let’s talk about the real issues at hand like necros, animist, LA dmg and the Zerg mentality.
Lol - you mke it sound like only Hib and Alb are zerging, and hitting solos.. Apparently you're missing the waves of Mids running around too, every day... And ya, there's also plenty of Mid stealth groups.. plenty.
The poisons here are ridiculous. I don't think I have ever resisted one yet and the debilitation of them is over the top.
On top of that add in the fact they can hit you with 8 different poisoned weapons in what...12 seconds?
Exactly. There are tons of reasons why Assassins are OP. Of course these players are in denial because they want ez mode RvR. Assassins here are nothing like they were during Classic/SI. It's almost a joke. Stop pretending.
They're like they were on live.. The class and abilities are the same. Only the templates are faster easier, as with all classes here... You keep saying assasins weren't SCød back in SI.. Well, on Lance they were - 90% of them also ran buffbots, and 15+ weaps to swap - nothing different, only stronger buffs on live..
They're like they were on live.. The class and abilities are the same. Only the templates are faster easier, as with all classes here... You keep saying assasins weren't SCød back in SI.. Well, on Lance they were - 90% of them also ran buffbots, and 15+ weaps to swap - nothing different, only stronger buffs on live..
The data I made up tells me it was 87% that ran BB's, and they also ran 20+ weapons to swap. Your made up data was close to being right to what I made up.
They're like they were on live.. The class and abilities are the same. Only the templates are faster easier, as with all classes here... You keep saying assasins weren't SCød back in SI.. Well, on Lance they were - 90% of them also ran buffbots, and 15+ weaps to swap - nothing different, only stronger buffs on live..
The data I made up tells me it was 87% that ran BB's, and they also ran 20+ weapons to swap. Your made up data was close to being right to what I made up.
Not really made up. I was part of the stealth scene in the early years. There was quite alot of talking amongst us stealthers. Also, it is pretty easy to see, after a kill, if someone is/was buffed - as you can see them all drop... but whatever.
- Stealth with little to no non-stealther counters, and no archer MoS. - Vanish. - Weaponswitch macro + poison ticking every hit, on server without BB's. - Landing PA while straffing. - Disease + anytime snare. - WS + s/c debuff on server without BB's. - NF RA purge (can work both ways though).
Assassins are very strong, with no real counter apart from being grouped. The poison cycling should be nerfed hard. I think weaponswap from inventory in combat, for all classes, should be treated as a style that costs 25% endo. Think they were around 10% of the pop last I checked, but don't think they dominate. Think it's a combo of a lot of zerg action and them being hard to master.
Is hard to predict the future, but so far I've not seen assassins as an issue. But if they start becoming numerous it is a problem.
They're like they were on live.. The class and abilities are the same. Only the templates are faster easier, as with all classes here... You keep saying assasins weren't SCød back in SI.. Well, on Lance they were - 90% of them also ran buffbots, and 15+ weaps to swap - nothing different, only stronger buffs on live..
The data I made up tells me it was 87% that ran BB's, and they also ran 20+ weapons to swap. Your made up data was close to being right to what I made up.
Not really made up. I was part of the stealth scene in the early years. There was quite alot of talking amongst us stealthers. Also, it is pretty easy to see, after a kill, if someone is/was buffed - as you can see them all drop... but whatever.
I was part of the solo, smallman and 8 man scene through DaoC. I'd never attempt to argue using statistics no one can validate and that are (irony incoming) 99% likely to be wrong.
Anyway, I don't care what was strong/weak, I only care what is strong/weak. Thane/paladin were gimp as &/&((% back then, I like that they at least attempted to buff them up some.
Being invisible should come at an extremely high cost, and apart from not being very groupable I don't think assassins pay a high enough cost. My subjective opinion.
- Stealth with little to no non-stealther counters, and no archer MoS. - Vanish. - Weaponswitch macro + poison ticking every hit, on server without BB's. - Landing PA while straffing. - Disease + anytime snare. - WS + s/c debuff on server without BB's. - NF RA purge (can work both ways though).
So, what is different compared to classic? Only the "no buffbots" and the easy strafing. I am all for fixing the strafing and making people miss, but that not an assassin specific discussion. And for a decade the consensus has been that the thing that truely made stealthers a bit too strong in classic was the buffbots....not the other way around.
Being invisible should come at an extremely high cost, and apart from not being very groupable I don't think assassins pay a high enough cost.
I agree, on the first part. But comparing an SB to a berserker or savage i believe they actually are paying a very high cost. "not being groupable" isn't the cost the pay...the cost the pay results in them not being groupable.
So, what is different compared to classic? Only the "no buffbots" and the easy strafing. I am all for fixing the strafing and making people miss, but that not an assassin specific discussion. And for a decade the consensus has been that the thing that truely made stealthers a bit too strong in classic was the buffbots....not the other way around.
The straffing is very much an assassin issue. Against people I can see I can compensate, is annoying if I have to zig-zag everywhere I run to not be perfed. Without the strafe I can just run avoid running known camp areas and I'm fine. On Uthgard I moved my strafe keys, because they were sureway to miss any style, even if you touched them a little. I liked that design.
And besides, classic you had to move the weapons to your inventory, here it's a click, and a click that can be macroed in combo with a style. It makes it way to easy to both navigate the fight and cycle. Having weapon swap cost endo both means light tanks can't slam/dual wield as easy, but especially minimizes poison cycle to maybe reaplying 1-2 times in a fight.
I agree, on the first part. But comparing an SB to a berserker or savage i believe they actually are paying a very high cost. "not being groupable" isn't the cost the pay...the cost the pay results in them not being groupable.
So... Assassin are strong, skilled ones take a powerful class and elevate the play to improbable victories, but then there are times that doesn't work, with or without Vanish. I'm going to tell a story here because it semi relates, and why not, I'm proud of it.
Last night: Lavington (me), 46 Thane, with a 43 Skald (Jhana) and a 50 Shaman (Quarm) farming in DF. The three of us had logged off as a group the night before, and regrouped and logged in to an Alb-controlled DF at the essence shredders hallway leading to the Albion side. Nobody around anywhere we looked.
We farmed there for a while in solitude, found shredders too potent with 2 at once to be efficient. We moved to drinkers which were orange to me at 46 and would count for the PVE kill task. The 50 Shaman disbanded out of group, but still helping us so us 2 lower guys would get credit for the pve kill task on demons. Maybe 80-90% health, and the mob was near dead.
The Infiltrator opened with PA into CD on me, and between the mob hits and her I was at 50% health quickly. I announced on voice that I had been hit, but my Skald had already mezzed the Saracen. We stepped aside and killed the demon, I hit the Infiltrator with Mangle, side stun shield style and the Skald and I took up positions behind for Conquer and Sledgehammer as applicable. The Shaman was out of group, but healed me to full and cast his disease and dot as he is mostly Cave.
The Saracen either Purged or the 8 second stun from Mangle wore off, and she Vanished. I hit my pbaoe but missed her. We ran around a bit looking for her in vain but there was no hope for us to discover her. So there we are with a wounded, angry level 50 Eagle Knight Infiltrator, whose name I recognized from RVR spam (Honeybadger.) Never fought her before but if you see a name a lot, that's cannot not be a good thing. What do we do? Continue to pull the last few demons we need for that tier of kill task and hope she's too weak to kill us before we complete it. What any sane person would do. We could take her if she tried again. Right?
Same configuration, same mobs, Shaman still out of group, she jumps us again. This time on the Shaman. He had been strafing around pillars and jumping in circles to make it hard, but Honeybadger hit him with the PA and CD. We predicted this and waited for it, and knew Vanish and probably Purge weren't up. What we did not expect was how much damage she could do. She beat the Shaman's doors off, Quarm even said "I'm dead" on voice, and I figured we were toast. But as luck would have it, Jhana the Skald landed the mez again, Quarm healed up and I Mangled and we took her down. This is all of us on discord and with 10+ years of playing games together. We know our roles well.
I have played stealth, and as a former bad Shadowblade during the 1.65 era (I was never RR5) I would aboslutely not have tried to kill 2 fully-buffed blues and a fully-buffed 50 Shaman, Skiltvaktens or otherwise. Honeybadger tried it TWICE and the second time without RAs, so I am positive there was no doubt in that player's mind that it could be done. A challenge perhaps, but not impossible, and it nearly went Honeybadger's way.
So I say all that to say this; we survived those 2 attacks, felt good, ran back up to the top of DF to head out and discovered a 50 Necromancer haunting the top of Mid DF. So of course we immediately engage, he immediately targets our Shaman (now back in group) and Quarm starts pillar humping like it is Blades Edge Arena all over again. I stand as close to him as I could with Guard & intercept and cast lightning bolts on the Abomination. Doesn't matter, he casts right through my damage and kills Quarm while healing with life taps. He comes for me after that, I try to positional side stun with Mangle while the pet is casting, doesn't matter he's a Necro pet, aces me through my hammer & shield dps and kills me and our Skald no prob. Did what the Infiltrator couldn't do with stealth and RAs and RR5, and looked to me like it was a lot less effort.
I have played stealth, and as a former bad Shadowblade during the 1.65 era (I was never RR5) I would aboslutely not have tried to kill 2 fully-buffed blues and a fully-buffed 50 Shaman, Skiltvaktens or otherwise. Honeybadger tried it TWICE and the second time without RAs, so I am positive there was no doubt in that player's mind that it could be done. A challenge perhaps, but not impossible, and it nearly went Honeybadger's way.
Worth noting that Honeybadger could have just been bored of the action in DF and wanted a fight to release out and go somewhere else. Never really know what someone's intentions when they engage in an unfavorable situation.
I have played stealth, and as a former bad Shadowblade during the 1.65 era (I was never RR5) I would aboslutely not have tried to kill 2 fully-buffed blues and a fully-buffed 50 Shaman, Skiltvaktens or otherwise. Honeybadger tried it TWICE and the second time without RAs, so I am positive there was no doubt in that player's mind that it could be done. A challenge perhaps, but not impossible, and it nearly went Honeybadger's way.
Worth noting that Honeybadger could have just been bored of the action in DF and wanted a fight to release out and go somewhere else. Never really know what someone's intentions when they engage in an unfavorable situation.
Yeah I recognized this at the time, too. It was open to Alb at the time so there was no lockout risk, really. But when the 2nd highest realm rank Infiltrator tries you on, he or she is probably confident in victory.
Personally I love where stealth is right now, and I think a lot of folks are underestimating the power of a proper template and blaming Vanish and Viper and such instead.
- Stealth with little to no non-stealther counters, and no archer MoS. - The amount of times a visi just running over me found me with 50 stealth is quite annoying TBH.
- Vanish. - Nothing OP about this.
- Weapon switch macro + poison ticking every hit, on server without BB's. - I agree. Maybe make it so it wont proc on initial hit and takes a few seconds before it starts ticking. That way you can still reapply poisons but there not acting as a proc every time you do it. Would mean we need less weapons to which is nice.
- Landing PA while strafing. - While for me strafe has rekt me tons of times. For PA. Maybe its not as high as it should be but that's a fix that would be fine to me as well.
- Disease + anytime snare. - Don't feel this to be an issue.
- WS + s/c debuff on server without BB's. - Most people run charges and buff pots while its not quite as great its still very effective. Not sure this matters.
- NF RA purge (can work both ways though). I would rather this go back to old purge. Would highly benefit stealthers more imo. So purge as it is makes it worse for stealthers I feel.
Personally I love where stealth is right now, and I think a lot of folks are underestimating the power of a proper template and blaming Vanish and Viper and such instead.
It's worth noting (unless you meant to say Envenom) that I really doubt any assassin's are buying Viper yet. I probably will at some point only because there seem to be very few things for an Assassin to spend RAs on but it's pretty underwhelming.
- Stealth with little to no non-stealther counters, and no archer MoS. - The amount of times a visi just running over me found me with 50 stealth is quite annoying TBH. The counter is the endless stream of people in the active task zone making 'assassinating' any single player a huge risk. - Vanish. - Nothing OP about this. And once you are found you are disarmed so have fun with that. - Weapon switch macro + poison ticking every hit, on server without BB's. - I agree. Maybe make it so it wont proc on initial hit and takes a few seconds before it starts ticking. That way you can still reapply poisons but there not acting as a proc every time you do it. Would mean we need less weapons to which is nice. Made a suggestion thread and directly messaged with Staff during Beta to remove /switch, was told they wanted to keep it. Was going to play an assassin regardless. - Landing PA while strafing. - While for me strafe has rekt me tons of times. For PA. Maybe its not as high as it should be but that's a fix that would be fine to me as well. I don't strafe much, can't comment. - Disease + anytime snare. - Don't feel this to be an issue. Always has been and you forgot snare poison too, though it seems like only I use that. - WS + s/c debuff on server without BB's. - Most people run charges and buff pots while its not quite as great its still very effective. Not sure this matters. Would love to go back to old Str/Con poison. More of an advantage as a Dex/Str user and wouldn't suffer from unfair weapon procs other realms have access to. Also you don't understand how debuffs work, they do almost nothing against unbuffed targets compared to buffed targets. - NF RA purge (can work both ways though). I would rather this go back to old purge. Would highly benefit stealthers more imo. So purge as it is makes it worse for stealthers I feel. 100% agree, would only make me stronger.
30 min purge is a nightmare vs alb's lol. 37 minstrels swooping in every time you unstealth is bad enough with 5 min purge. I can see as an inf how you guy's would like that though!
30 min purge is a nightmare vs alb's lol. 37 minstrels swooping in every time you unstealth is bad enough with 5 min purge. I can see as an inf how you guy's would like that though!
30 min purge is a nightmare vs alb's lol. 37 minstrels swooping in every time you unstealth is bad enough with 5 min purge. I can see as an inf how you guy's would like that though!
Nightshades need to be toned down a bit.
I would say Envenom needs toned down.
I haven't seen any domination by NS's verse other classes, but I do see all the time Envenom winning fights for assassins.
Vanish I have no issues with and I personally don't think it should be something pets can keep target on either. Once you vanish you should be undetectable for the short duration it has.
Personally I love where stealth is right now, and I think a lot of folks are underestimating the power of a proper template and blaming Vanish and Viper and such instead.
It's worth noting (unless you meant to say Envenom) that I really doubt any assassin's are buying Viper yet. I probably will at some point only because there seem to be very few things for an Assassin to spend RAs on but it's pretty underwhelming.
I did mean Viper, actually. I do not have any information on how popular it is but I agree with you, it seems underwhelming. It was mentioned on these forums as being "OP" at least once which I found comical, so I mentioned it as example. I still believe a solid template of MP or 99% quality stuff does far more than any one single RA.
