Counter-arguments?
Let's have a serious talk about the RvR Task System.
Started 27 Feb 2019
by
jhaerik
in
RvR
Counter-arguments?
Wed 27 Feb 2019 5:30 PM
by
PingGuy
I'm just here to have fun. I find the tasks fun. So I'm still here. Getting some RA's helps make it more fun. Getting them without having to be a skilled player does not negate the fun for me. Maybe they need to change the task to "Participate in a **** measuring contest in Emain," and then people would be happy. Of course there is nothing stopping them from holding that contest now, and they should be happy because they wouldn't get a participation trophy for it.
In the meantime, please forward all unwanted participation trophies to me. I will get a nice cabinet to put them in, something with a nice walnut finish. It'll be so classy.
In the meantime, please forward all unwanted participation trophies to me. I will get a nice cabinet to put them in, something with a nice walnut finish. It'll be so classy.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 5:32 PM
by
jhaerik
PingGuy wrote: ↑Wed 27 Feb 2019 5:30 PMI'm just here to have fun. I find the tasks fun. So I'm still here. Getting some RA's helps make it more fun. Getting them without having to be a skilled player does not negate the fun for me. Maybe they need to change the task to "Participate in a **** measuring contest in Emain," and then people would be happy. Of course there is nothing stopping them from holding that contest now, and they should be happy because they wouldn't get a participation trophy for it.
In the meantime, please forward all unwanted participation trophies to me. I will get a nice cabinet to put them in, something with a nice walnut finish. It'll be so classy.
I'm leveling by just suiciding to people. It's hilarious. Dying now rewards RP and xp. Gotta love it. Literally just dying. Running straight at people. Nothing else.
Seriously? lol
Love the gray gankers, they now give me rp by dying to them.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 5:42 PM
by
PingGuy
People want action. Killing you was action. The task incentivized you to provide yourself as a target. Therefore the task worked.
They could try incentivizing people with a giant bag of nothing, but I doubt it will work. "Hey, I know this bag is full of nothing, but look at how giant it is!"
They could try incentivizing people with a giant bag of nothing, but I doubt it will work. "Hey, I know this bag is full of nothing, but look at how giant it is!"
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:00 PM
by
jhaerik
PingGuy wrote: ↑Wed 27 Feb 2019 5:42 PMPeople want action. Killing you was action. The task incentivized you to provide yourself as a target. Therefore the task worked.
They could try incentivizing people with a giant bag of nothing, but I doubt it will work. "Hey, I know this bag is full of nothing, but look at how giant it is!"
Believe it or not... RvR existed before Phoenix tasks.
True story bro.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:13 PM
by
PingGuy
jhaerik wrote: Believe it or not... RvR existed before Phoenix tasks.
True story bro.
Believe it or not... I didn't care about that until I saw the Phoenix tasks. I didn't expect to end up liking RvR when I joined this server, but the tasks got me interested, and kept me coming back for more. The teleports made it even better. I'm not here to prove anything to anyone, just trying to have fun playing different classes.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:13 PM
by
jhaerik
PingGuy wrote: ↑Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:13 PMjhaerik wrote: Believe it or not... RvR existed before Phoenix tasks.
True story bro.
Believe it or not... I didn't care about that until I saw the Phoenix tasks. I didn't expect to end up liking RvR when I joined this server, but the tasks got me interested, and kept me coming back for more. The teleports made it even better. I'm not here to prove anything to anyone, just trying to have fun playing different classes.
Then you don't even understand what you are missing.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:24 PM
by
Dominus
I know what I'm "not" missing, all the action in eMain and constantly being the one realm that has to spend 10 minutes to get into action.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 10:08 PM
by
jhaerik
Dominus wrote: ↑Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:24 PMI know what I'm "not" missing, all the action in eMain and constantly being the one realm that has to spend 10 minutes to get into action.
Is quantity of RvR the only measure these days?
I left live to come here to avoid the zerg nonsense of Pain VS Hero CS Nate.
Weeks in here and it's already turning into the same thing I left.
It's Call of Duty gameplay. :/
Wed 27 Feb 2019 10:15 PM
by
Pao
jhaerik wrote: ↑Wed 27 Feb 2019 10:08 PMDominus wrote: ↑Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:24 PMI know what I'm "not" missing, all the action in eMain and constantly being the one realm that has to spend 10 minutes to get into action.
Is quantity of RvR the only measure these days?
I left live to come here to avoid the zerg nonsense of Pain VS Hero CS Nate.
Weeks in here and it's already turning into the same thing I left.
It's Call of Duty gameplay. :/
Uthgard is a cool 8vs8 arena.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:07 PM
by
PingGuy
I don't see why people who are looking for high quality action in RvR, and people who don't care about that, can't both have fun on this server. How does having a task in 1 of the 3 frontiers at any given time affect the people who could be utilizing the other 2?
Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:38 PM
by
jhaerik
PingGuy wrote: ↑Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:07 PMI don't see why people who are looking for high quality action in RvR, and people who don't care about that, can't both have fun on this server. How does having a task in 1 of the 3 frontiers at any given time affect the people who could be utilizing the other 2?
Because no one is in the other two because they'd fall behind in RP by doing so.
Thu 28 Feb 2019 9:02 AM
by
Sepplord
jhaerik wrote: ↑Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:38 PMPingGuy wrote: ↑Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:07 PMI don't see why people who are looking for high quality action in RvR, and people who don't care about that, can't both have fun on this server. How does having a task in 1 of the 3 frontiers at any given time affect the people who could be utilizing the other 2?
Because no one is in the other two because they'd fall behind in RP by doing so.
now we are closing in on the truth about all these complaints...
It's not that the people raising complaints want their playstyle to be available, they want it to be the best RP/hr available.
NEWSFLASH: the greys/loweis/noobs and casuals zerging the taskzones will never compete against the hardcores. If all people looking for 8vs8 would go to a different zone they would still make more RP than the casuals mindlessly zerging around.
Thu 28 Feb 2019 9:49 AM
by
DkN
I love this game, and I really don't understand why implement something like these RvR Task...
and don't say me that I have the choice :
- if I follow the task it's just Zerg, no brain, the bigger win, no strategy, no small men, no 8vs 8 or 8 vs 16, and if you go away from the zerg you meet nobody...
- If you don't follow the task, there is nobody on the other frontiers (or 1/2 guys levelling...)
and these Task for what ? 6k rp/hour, but no fun, no challenge ! and now with the teleport it's even worse...
I like this server because it keep the original game with some good improvement (xp esaier, rog system), but why change the RvR which is good without any changes !
I hope Dev will listen to us quickly and make something good for the server.
Thank you
and don't say me that I have the choice :
- if I follow the task it's just Zerg, no brain, the bigger win, no strategy, no small men, no 8vs 8 or 8 vs 16, and if you go away from the zerg you meet nobody...
- If you don't follow the task, there is nobody on the other frontiers (or 1/2 guys levelling...)
and these Task for what ? 6k rp/hour, but no fun, no challenge ! and now with the teleport it's even worse...
I like this server because it keep the original game with some good improvement (xp esaier, rog system), but why change the RvR which is good without any changes !
I hope Dev will listen to us quickly and make something good for the server.
Thank you
Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:31 PM
by
Dominus
8 mans could easily lag behind the task zone by one. Task in eMain? 8 mans cleanup and fight for an hour in Odins.. Just an idea if zergs are what you want to avoid.
Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:50 PM
by
PingGuy
Sepplord wrote: now we are closing in on the truth about all these complaints...
It's not that the people raising complaints want their playstyle to be available, they want it to be the best RP/hr available.
NEWSFLASH: the greys/loweis/noobs and casuals zerging the taskzones will never compete against the hardcores. If all people looking for 8vs8 would go to a different zone they would still make more RP than the casuals mindlessly zerging around.
Exactly, and i'd even be fine if there was some kind of bonus to RP's from kills in the zones where the task wasn't active. I'm not tasking to get RP's to try and compete with the hardcore 8vs8 people, I just want some RA's to make life in RvR a little more manageable. But they keep trashing the tasks instead of proposing things that would promote their playstyle.
Dominus wrote: 8 mans could easily lag behind the task zone by one. Task in eMain? 8 mans cleanup and fight for an hour in Odins.. Just an idea if zergs are what you want to avoid.
Anybody who watches the death spam knows the fighting isn't only happening in the task zone. I've seen this suggestion a lot and I think some people are taking it. It really is the best way to coordinate a single location. Plus you get to clean up the task stragglers.
Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:58 PM
by
gnefner
This however was supposed to be a trip back to the classic days, or so I understood it.. The thing is, that RvR here is NOTHING like it was on classic.. Which is spoilling it for alot of people who knows what RvR was really like, with all it's faults.. It was still tons better than what we have here now. With such a high population, there is no need to force and funnel people into the same zones, all damn day.. Back in the day, with 2500 on live at peek times, you were able to finde action everywhere..
Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:59 PM
by
gnefner
Dominus wrote: ↑Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:24 PMI know what I'm "not" missing, all the action in eMain and constantly being the one realm that has to spend 10 minutes to get into action.
This was the way it was though, back in the classic days. I figured you started here, to get a feel of the good ol' days, no?
Thu 28 Feb 2019 2:09 PM
by
PingGuy
gnefner wrote: ↑Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:58 PMThis howveer was asuposed to be a trip back to the classic days, or so I understodd it.. The thing is, that RvR here is NOTHING like it was on classic.. Which is spolling it for alot of people who know what RvR was really like, with all it's faults.. It was still tons better than what we have here now.
I'm sorry that the current implementation is worse for you. It's not worse for everybody. Go take keeps and fight 8mans in one of the two frontiers that aren't the active task frontier. Nothing is stopping you. If the RP thing is a problem, ask for improvements to RP gains for activities that you prefer.
Plenty of us are enjoying the tasks, and that shouldn't affect those who don't want to run them.
Thu 28 Feb 2019 4:33 PM
by
Murtaghe7
A lot of people enjoy the convenience of the task system, especially on lower level toons. It makes getting to 2L0+ much easier, which can make the leveling process a bit more fun and easy.
More than that however, is that i believe the task system is a good thing overall, but i would like to see it improved and tweaked. Right now participation is a fairly ambiguous thing that rewards additional rps for helping to complete some of the various tasks that are listed (turn-ins, capturing flags, taking/defending keeps), but of all of them i would like to see the taking/defending keeps system expanded and worked on. Turns-ins and capturing flags are both fairly easy, non-50s can participate by exping in frontiers (which most do anyway) and turn in items, while the flag system awards both participation as well as a very nice teleport feature that allows realms to essentially setup supply points. I know there is some debate around the teleport system, but frankly i find it nice for action/choke point avoidance, as well as the tactical aspect of setting a troop spawn point. Both easily have their pros defined.
Keep taking and defending however are left out a bit. Its not an easy task for even 2 groups to take a sufficiently leveled keep, this is much more zerg task territory. But in that regard, taking keeps doesn't reward enough participation rps for zergs to care that much, nor do they hold any real strategic value. Defending tasks are even worse, as there is no guarantee that the opposing realms will attack them. So as-is, keep taking seems to be left behind in favor of zerg roaming and mile-gate farming. I would love to see a system in place where the keep taking task has a tiered progression system within it, with increased rewards all around. Progression to a point where if a realm can successfully take keep after keep within the task realm, and defend them, they receive increased participation rps based on how far the progress.
More than that however, is that i believe the task system is a good thing overall, but i would like to see it improved and tweaked. Right now participation is a fairly ambiguous thing that rewards additional rps for helping to complete some of the various tasks that are listed (turn-ins, capturing flags, taking/defending keeps), but of all of them i would like to see the taking/defending keeps system expanded and worked on. Turns-ins and capturing flags are both fairly easy, non-50s can participate by exping in frontiers (which most do anyway) and turn in items, while the flag system awards both participation as well as a very nice teleport feature that allows realms to essentially setup supply points. I know there is some debate around the teleport system, but frankly i find it nice for action/choke point avoidance, as well as the tactical aspect of setting a troop spawn point. Both easily have their pros defined.
Keep taking and defending however are left out a bit. Its not an easy task for even 2 groups to take a sufficiently leveled keep, this is much more zerg task territory. But in that regard, taking keeps doesn't reward enough participation rps for zergs to care that much, nor do they hold any real strategic value. Defending tasks are even worse, as there is no guarantee that the opposing realms will attack them. So as-is, keep taking seems to be left behind in favor of zerg roaming and mile-gate farming. I would love to see a system in place where the keep taking task has a tiered progression system within it, with increased rewards all around. Progression to a point where if a realm can successfully take keep after keep within the task realm, and defend them, they receive increased participation rps based on how far the progress.
Thu 28 Feb 2019 4:50 PM
by
Afuldan
Murtaghe7 wrote: ↑Thu 28 Feb 2019 4:33 PMA lot of people enjoy the convenience of the task system, especially on lower level toons. It makes getting to 2L0+ much easier, which can make the leveling process a bit more fun and easy.
More than that however, is that i believe the task system is a good thing overall, but i would like to see it improved and tweaked. Right now participation is a fairly ambiguous thing that rewards additional rps for helping to complete some of the various tasks that are listed (turn-ins, capturing flags, taking/defending keeps), but of all of them i would like to see the taking/defending keeps system expanded and worked on. Turns-ins and capturing flags are both fairly easy, non-50s can participate by exping in frontiers (which most do anyway) and turn in items, while the flag system awards both participation as well as a very nice teleport feature that allows realms to essentially setup supply points. I know there is some debate around the teleport system, but frankly i find it nice for action/choke point avoidance, as well as the tactical aspect of setting a troop spawn point. Both easily have their pros defined.
Keep taking and defending however are left out a bit. Its not an easy task for even 2 groups to take a sufficiently leveled keep, this is much more zerg task territory. But in that regard, taking keeps doesn't reward enough participation rps for zergs to care that much, nor do they hold any real strategic value. Defending tasks are even worse, as there is no guarantee that the opposing realms will attack them. So as-is, keep taking seems to be left behind in favor of zerg roaming and mile-gate farming. I would love to see a system in place where the keep taking task has a tiered progression system within it, with increased rewards all around. Progression to a point where if a realm can successfully take keep after keep within the task realm, and defend them, they receive increased participation rps based on how far the progress.
This is the real solution to everyone feeling like RvR is empty. Leave the flags, but change teleports to be tied with keeps, and have higher rewards tied to keeps. Other thing is, change the keep from a specific one, to just capture/defend any keep.
Let a organized 2/3 groups think ahead and start taking the portal zone keep in the next realm, 15 min ahead of the current task ending.
Thu 28 Feb 2019 6:09 PM
by
sprinkle
goodluck finding an 8 man in a non task frontier, once it changes that zone empties and its MASSIVE
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